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: {{reply to |GorillaWarfare}} I understand you must feel that the pages owned by ArbCom are more important than any other pages on Wikipedia, but in truth, they are not. Edit-warring on Today's Featured Article would still only merit a normal preventative block of fixed duration. So what on earth made you think that edit-warring on a remote backwater page (check the viewing stats if you don't believe me) needed to be met with an untouchable indefinite block? Are you so insecure in your blocking rationale that you need to hide behind "an ArbCom block"? - a device that isn't even mentioned in the [[WP:Arbitration/Policy]] that you seem to rely on. Or is it simply that your target was Giano? --[[User:RexxS|RexxS]] ([[User talk:RexxS|talk]]) 02:05, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
: {{reply to |GorillaWarfare}} I understand you must feel that the pages owned by ArbCom are more important than any other pages on Wikipedia, but in truth, they are not. Edit-warring on Today's Featured Article would still only merit a normal preventative block of fixed duration. So what on earth made you think that edit-warring on a remote backwater page (check the viewing stats if you don't believe me) needed to be met with an untouchable indefinite block? Are you so insecure in your blocking rationale that you need to hide behind "an ArbCom block"? - a device that isn't even mentioned in the [[WP:Arbitration/Policy]] that you seem to rely on. Or is it simply that your target was Giano? --[[User:RexxS|RexxS]] ([[User talk:RexxS|talk]]) 02:05, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
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::Are you upset that I blocked him, or that the block was indefinite? If it's the former, then we're simply going to have to disagree: I think it was reasonable to block him for continuing to edit war on that arbitration page after previously being blocked for the same. If it's the latter, I have already agreed in my response above that I should have made it clear that the block was intended to last only until the case closed. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] <small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 02:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
::Are you upset that I blocked him, or that the block was indefinite? If it's the former, then we're simply going to have to disagree: I think it was reasonable to block him for continuing to edit war on that arbitration page after previously being blocked for the same. If it's the latter, I have already agreed in my response above that I should have made it clear that the block was intended to last only until the case closed. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] <small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 02:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:::Well I am still rather mystified as to why [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] permitted her "[[User:The ed17|friend]]" to remove my talk page access. I was merely reinstating what she had removed by conflicting; in fact, I am puzzled as to why her friend was there at all, does he always walk two paces behind her? Is she some poor, feeble little woman incapable of acting alone? But then of course she needed a [[User:Roger Davies|third man]] to help her place the block, so perhaps she is. Then again, was it a longed for arbcom revenge and they were all fighting amongst themselves to place it? Possibly even, Gorilla's not very good at placing blocks on her own and needs a cluster supporters to assist her in difficult tasks. Whatever, I'm reminded of a [[User:Catherine de Burgh/Catherine Bonkbuster|beloved aunt]], who when arranging flowers, had a butler to hold the vase, a gardener to select and pass her the flowers, a maid to cut the stems, and three friends to admire her handiwork and artistry. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Giano|<span style="color:Black;background orange;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Giano '''</span>]]</span></small> 10:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
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==I slept through all that?? Belated commentary on the block and other admin actions== |
==I slept through all that?? Belated commentary on the block and other admin actions== |
Revision as of 10:40, 27 February 2014
Old messages are at:
- User talk:Giano II/archive 1 (From Oct 2004)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 2 (From Jan 2005)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 3 (From July 2005)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 4 (From Jan 2006)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 5 (From July 2006)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 6 (From Jan 2007)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 7 (From July 2007)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 8 (From Jan 2008)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 9 (From July 2008)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 10 (From Jan 2009)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 11 (From July 2009)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 12 (From Jan 2010)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 13 (From July 2010)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 14 (From Jan 2011)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 15 (From July 2011)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 16 (From Jan 2012)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 17 (From Jan 2013)
- User talk:Giano II/archive 18 (From July 2013)
- User talk:Giano/archive 19 (From Jan 2014)
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Unblock
As the case has been closed, I have removed your block. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:38, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- @GorillaWarfare, it's rather sad that it took you over half an hour to find the courage to come here to notify me of the block in the first place, then that you had the audacity to conflict me posting on my own page, and then had to resort to using the Arbcom's acolyte (I assume that's what he is) to continue reverting me here until he finally had the pathetic excuse to remove talk page access. This Arbcom is worse than useless; it's devious and incompetent. it's reluctance to support ordinary editors over admins is now clear for all to see. Getting justice for Eric Corbett has been like pulling teeth without anaesthetic, but we got there in the end, and if the Arbcom ever try such tricks again I will perform exactly the same dental work. Giano 08:50, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Arbcom's acolyte? That's a pretty tame insult backed up with no facts, but alright. Anyway, I have the rational capability to act independently when I see blockable edits popping up on my watchlist, and it's not my fault you decided to denigrate another user multiple times. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:22, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Oh Ed, what an earth is insulting about being an acolyte? As a youth, I was one for a few years myself - the bonuses were tremendous, but I'm digressing. I don't believe your watchlist story for a moment, you really must stop fibbing, we all hold candles at one time or another, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Giano 22:15, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- What on earth did you mean by it if you didn't intend it as an insult? I took it as you insinuating that I'm an arbcom sycophant, which is entirely false. Believe what you want, but your page has been on my watchlist since this edit. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Of course, anything you say Ed. Giano 22:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- What on earth did you mean by it if you didn't intend it as an insult? I took it as you insinuating that I'm an arbcom sycophant, which is entirely false. Believe what you want, but your page has been on my watchlist since this edit. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Oh Ed, what an earth is insulting about being an acolyte? As a youth, I was one for a few years myself - the bonuses were tremendous, but I'm digressing. I don't believe your watchlist story for a moment, you really must stop fibbing, we all hold candles at one time or another, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Giano 22:15, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Arbcom's acolyte? That's a pretty tame insult backed up with no facts, but alright. Anyway, I have the rational capability to act independently when I see blockable edits popping up on my watchlist, and it's not my fault you decided to denigrate another user multiple times. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:22, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- @GorillaWarfare, it's rather sad that it took you over half an hour to find the courage to come here to notify me of the block in the first place, then that you had the audacity to conflict me posting on my own page, and then had to resort to using the Arbcom's acolyte (I assume that's what he is) to continue reverting me here until he finally had the pathetic excuse to remove talk page access. This Arbcom is worse than useless; it's devious and incompetent. it's reluctance to support ordinary editors over admins is now clear for all to see. Getting justice for Eric Corbett has been like pulling teeth without anaesthetic, but we got there in the end, and if the Arbcom ever try such tricks again I will perform exactly the same dental work. Giano 08:50, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I apologize that it took me a half hour to notify you of the block; I should have been quicker about it. I don't apologize for edit-conflicting with you; you know as well as I do that there's no way I could have done that intentionally to antagonize you.
@Bishonen: I don't agree that my "block notice when it came was couched in general terms, with a large gesture at a long policy"; I linked directly to the six-sentence-long "Participation" section of WP:Arbitration/Policy. "inability to be civil and decorous" is taken more or less verbatim from "All editors are required to act reasonably, civilly, and with decorum on arbitration case pages, and may face sanctions if they fail to do so." But in case it was unclear, yes, the reason for the block was because he reverted my removal of the personal attack he had made. I agree with you that I should have been clear that the indefinite block was intended to last only for the length of the case.
@Intothatdarkness: I'm a little confused as to why you keep bringing up MarcusBritish's block here. Yes, it was an indefinite block. Yes, I made the block as an arbitrator. That's about as far as the similarities go. It was a block on behalf of the Arbitration Committee, and a normal administrator block would not have sufficed. If you're upset about the two minutes between when I placed the block and when I notified MarcusBritish, I suggest you reconsider your opinion on how much elapsed time is reasonable. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:42, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- @GorillaWarfare: I understand you must feel that the pages owned by ArbCom are more important than any other pages on Wikipedia, but in truth, they are not. Edit-warring on Today's Featured Article would still only merit a normal preventative block of fixed duration. So what on earth made you think that edit-warring on a remote backwater page (check the viewing stats if you don't believe me) needed to be met with an untouchable indefinite block? Are you so insecure in your blocking rationale that you need to hide behind "an ArbCom block"? - a device that isn't even mentioned in the WP:Arbitration/Policy that you seem to rely on. Or is it simply that your target was Giano? --RexxS (talk) 02:05, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Are you upset that I blocked him, or that the block was indefinite? If it's the former, then we're simply going to have to disagree: I think it was reasonable to block him for continuing to edit war on that arbitration page after previously being blocked for the same. If it's the latter, I have already agreed in my response above that I should have made it clear that the block was intended to last only until the case closed. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well I am still rather mystified as to why GorillaWarfare permitted her "friend" to remove my talk page access. I was merely reinstating what she had removed by conflicting; in fact, I am puzzled as to why her friend was there at all, does he always walk two paces behind her? Is she some poor, feeble little woman incapable of acting alone? But then of course she needed a third man to help her place the block, so perhaps she is. Then again, was it a longed for arbcom revenge and they were all fighting amongst themselves to place it? Possibly even, Gorilla's not very good at placing blocks on her own and needs a cluster supporters to assist her in difficult tasks. Whatever, I'm reminded of a beloved aunt, who when arranging flowers, had a butler to hold the vase, a gardener to select and pass her the flowers, a maid to cut the stems, and three friends to admire her handiwork and artistry. Giano 10:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Are you upset that I blocked him, or that the block was indefinite? If it's the former, then we're simply going to have to disagree: I think it was reasonable to block him for continuing to edit war on that arbitration page after previously being blocked for the same. If it's the latter, I have already agreed in my response above that I should have made it clear that the block was intended to last only until the case closed. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I slept through all that?? Belated commentary on the block and other admin actions
For god's sake, Giano, I slept through all that? How unfortunate. Everything happens when America's awake and I'm not, and then you remove the whole thing! :-( Well, I'm sorry, but now is when I'm awake, so I'll comment. Anyway, I've no intention of mentioning the admin's name that you don't want here.[1]
@GorillaWarfare. I disagree with your block (and raise an eyebrow at your slowness to notify Giano on this page). Your block notice when it came was couched in general terms, with a large gesture at a long policy, so I'll specify what I assume your block reason was, with links for the curious. You removed a phrase of his from inside a longer post, like this, from the case page, some three hours after he made the comment[2]. Silly fussing and micro-management are the best words I have for that removal — "you are a disgrace as an admin" — what what? Haven't stronger expressions been used over and over in this case? I hope I don't have to think of it as deliberate provocation, but it was obviously (come on, now!) going to provoke. Liking his words and disliking being treated like a child, Giano restored the comment, and then you blocked. Making it an "indefinite" block I do consider baiting. Or maybe unintentional baiting — I voted for you for ArbCom and I like to assume good faith altogether — but did you not work out how that would be perceived? Yes yes, "indefinite" formally means "could be any time, I'm not saying", but we all know what it's perceived to mean when the blocking admins doesn't let on what it'll take to be unblocked. It means "to be unblocked if and only if you apologise, admit your mistakes, agree to learn to avoid previous pitfalls, work to address all of the issues, pave the road, seek redemption, face the music, show that you understand why exactly you were blocked and how right it was that you should be, and show remorse". (Borrowed from the Optimist's Guide.) It merely meant "to be unblocked when the case is closed, i. e. in a few hours?" Why couldn't you have said that? Because it wasn't by any means the impression you created.
Re The ed17's actions. (Please make sure you don't mix him up with EdChem.) Remove talkpage access?? I sure wish I'd been awake for that one, I would have reinstated tpa like a shot. (This is where at least three people will complain that I would have "wheel warred", because they're unfamiliar with WP:WHEEL. Don't bother.) It was heinous and ridiculous. It's normal that blocked users vent, a sensible admin will turn a blind eye, always excepting "extreme cases of abuse by the blocked user" Removing tpa is supposed to be rare. Giano's comment about the blocking admin[3] was heated, yes, but well within what's to be expected, and what's normally accepted, in the case of a blocked user. In no way an "extreme case of abuse". I was surprised at the removal of tpa at first, then unsurprised when I saw who the admin was, but I won't sidetrack myself by going into my preexisting opinion of The ed17. The same admin's removal of rollback wasn't so much heinous as merely ridiculous, a beating of the air in order to make a point, thereby again unsurprising. "Oh no, I haven't got rollback any more, I'm gonna have to use Twinkle! [Weeps.]." Twinkle is just as convenient as "rollback", Giano, and has many additional neat features. Just go to your Preferences, the tab "Gadgets", and tick Twinkle. Bishonen | talk 11:00, 26 February 2014 (UTC).
- Thank you Bishonen, I have no intention of Twinkling anything for fear as appearing as stupid and posturing as the pair above. Gorilla, her partner in crime, and arbcom friends are extremely misguided indeed if they think they can intimidate me with "indefinite blocks" and talk page removals just because I point out that an admin repeating a similar insult for which they are currently admonishing another admin for is a disgrace. Perhaps Gorilla was voting on a case which she didn't understand or hadn't properly read; that can be the only explanation. Quite where the organ grinder's monkey was sent from is another matter, but I shall find out. People coming to this page and beating their chests in threatening gorilla fashion will be similarly treated. Giano 11:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- This is also the second time Gorilla has placed an arb indefinite block with minimal or delayed notice and discussion. MarcusBritish got similar treatment, and is still blocked. Intothatdarkness 14:47, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think we are very close to having a vote of no confidence in the Arbcom. People like Gorilla and her sidekick strutting around and throwing their weight about are really doing the project no good at all. Giano 14:57, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Before I say this, I do want to point out that GW's block was presumably a temp indef because you had reverted an arb for the second set of times in the same case, and I don't find it unreasonable. That said, a lot of arbcom's behavior over the last week involving both of us has completely flummoxed me, and somehow remarkably we seem to be in agreement that arbcom's handling of this case has been poor enough to raise incredibly serious questions. Feel free to delete this if you want, I just wanted to point out the odd fact that we've come out of this concurring on a major issue. Kevin Gorman (talk) 15:07, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think one would have to be a fool not to have noticed some extraordinary and extremely unprofessional behaviour. Giano 15:09, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I mentioned her earlier block simply because it was also formatted as an "arb - do not remove" block with no good explanation. My (admittedly imperfect) understanding is that it was based on information that had been forwarded to ArbCom and not openly discussed. It also seemed to have been triggered by posts MarcusBritish was making on his own talk page. The similarities were, again, a lack of notification, delayed explanation, and the use of an arb block when a normal admin block with explanation would likely have sufficed. Some of the floundering around in Toddst1's case is also instructive with regard to the points you both have made, IMO. Intothatdarkness 15:48, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don;t know enough about MarcusBritish to comment, but it does appear that the Gorilla does need some form of extra training in her duties. If you don't know how to do a job, don't put yourself up for it. Giano 15:53, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I mentioned her earlier block simply because it was also formatted as an "arb - do not remove" block with no good explanation. My (admittedly imperfect) understanding is that it was based on information that had been forwarded to ArbCom and not openly discussed. It also seemed to have been triggered by posts MarcusBritish was making on his own talk page. The similarities were, again, a lack of notification, delayed explanation, and the use of an arb block when a normal admin block with explanation would likely have sufficed. Some of the floundering around in Toddst1's case is also instructive with regard to the points you both have made, IMO. Intothatdarkness 15:48, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think one would have to be a fool not to have noticed some extraordinary and extremely unprofessional behaviour. Giano 15:09, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Before I say this, I do want to point out that GW's block was presumably a temp indef because you had reverted an arb for the second set of times in the same case, and I don't find it unreasonable. That said, a lot of arbcom's behavior over the last week involving both of us has completely flummoxed me, and somehow remarkably we seem to be in agreement that arbcom's handling of this case has been poor enough to raise incredibly serious questions. Feel free to delete this if you want, I just wanted to point out the odd fact that we've come out of this concurring on a major issue. Kevin Gorman (talk) 15:07, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think we are very close to having a vote of no confidence in the Arbcom. People like Gorilla and her sidekick strutting around and throwing their weight about are really doing the project no good at all. Giano 14:57, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- This is also the second time Gorilla has placed an arb indefinite block with minimal or delayed notice and discussion. MarcusBritish got similar treatment, and is still blocked. Intothatdarkness 14:47, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you Bishonen, I have no intention of Twinkling anything for fear as appearing as stupid and posturing as the pair above. Gorilla, her partner in crime, and arbcom friends are extremely misguided indeed if they think they can intimidate me with "indefinite blocks" and talk page removals just because I point out that an admin repeating a similar insult for which they are currently admonishing another admin for is a disgrace. Perhaps Gorilla was voting on a case which she didn't understand or hadn't properly read; that can be the only explanation. Quite where the organ grinder's monkey was sent from is another matter, but I shall find out. People coming to this page and beating their chests in threatening gorilla fashion will be similarly treated. Giano 11:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Bishonen, if you have a problem with my actions, it's not difficult to open a new section at ANI. Otherwise this is just political posturing. Thanks, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:22, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's an assholish and oblivious answer to my concerns. Why answer at all if you have nothing to say? And why am I yet again not surprised? Bishonen | talk 21:40, 26 February 2014 (UTC).
- Oh, and I forgot: "Thanks." Bishonen | talk 21:42, 26 February 2014 (UTC).
- Bishonen, I'm sure poor little Ed] was just leaping on the bandwagon; I expect he has aspirations to be an arb (God knows why) or perhaps he has connections to Arb - who knows? One thing I do know, having dealt with you for 8?/9? years is that you are totally unpolitical, or should that be apolitical (that's where Eic was so useful) so he's wrong on that score, so he's probably wrong elsewhere too. Dismiss him from your mind, that's how I cope with such tiresome people. Giano 22:01, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Giano, you think I want to be an arb? I may be many things, but I'm not insane. :-) Bishonen, assholish? Not really. Oblivious? Sure, but that's because I'm not engaging you in a substantive debate on what I'm confident was the correct action. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- .......and you're American too, I believe? That must make things a lot more convenient. Giano 22:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Leave nationality out of this, arrogance and self-righteousness is far from an American-only type (regardless of the stereotype) Giano. Look at all the EE-related battles. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 08:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- @[[[User:Lukeno94|Lukeno94]], no, nothing to do with nationality, I have more than a little American blood myself; I was merely referring to the geographical convenience of Ed being in America - that must remain rather a cryptic analogy I'm afraid, but unconnected to his arrogance I promise you. Giano 10:12, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- .......and you're American too, I believe? That must make things a lot more convenient. Giano 22:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Giano, you think I want to be an arb? I may be many things, but I'm not insane. :-) Bishonen, assholish? Not really. Oblivious? Sure, but that's because I'm not engaging you in a substantive debate on what I'm confident was the correct action. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Bishonen, I'm sure poor little Ed] was just leaping on the bandwagon; I expect he has aspirations to be an arb (God knows why) or perhaps he has connections to Arb - who knows? One thing I do know, having dealt with you for 8?/9? years is that you are totally unpolitical, or should that be apolitical (that's where Eic was so useful) so he's wrong on that score, so he's probably wrong elsewhere too. Dismiss him from your mind, that's how I cope with such tiresome people. Giano 22:01, 26 February 2014 (UTC)