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Undid revision 726753246 by Lawrencekhoo (talk) remove comment from editor who has utterly failed to address systemic bias issues in his professional field of expertise |
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::Note that I have rephrased the restriction as follows: '''{{user|EllenCT}} is indefinitely banned from the topic of economics, broadly construed.''' <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">[[User:The Wordsmith|'''The Wordsmith''']]</span><sup>[[User talk:The Wordsmith|Talk to me]]</sup> 17:33, 23 June 2016 (UTC) |
::Note that I have rephrased the restriction as follows: '''{{user|EllenCT}} is indefinitely banned from the topic of economics, broadly construed.''' <span style="font-family:Courier New;font-size:3">[[User:The Wordsmith|'''The Wordsmith''']]</span><sup>[[User talk:The Wordsmith|Talk to me]]</sup> 17:33, 23 June 2016 (UTC) |
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Dear Ellen, I beg you to reconsider your planned challenge to the topic ban. I suggest moving forward and reforming your style of editing. Remember the saying that insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"? As I mentioned before, being polite, doing the work to find reliable sources, and being scrupulously honest about those sources, is the only way to get things to 'stick' on Wikipedia. There is plenty of corporate-sponsored disinformation that needs correcting on Wikipedia. You'll do good work if you stick to correcting or removing obvious right-wing disinformation. [[User:Lawrencekhoo|LK]] ([[User talk:Lawrencekhoo|talk]]) 04:34, 24 June 2016 (UTC) |
Revision as of 05:11, 24 June 2016
Please comment on Talk:Monkey Kingdom
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The Signpost: 06 January 2016
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Please comment on Talk:Socialism
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Tech News: 2016-02
16:59, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 13 January 2016
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Please comment on Talk:List of best-selling music artists
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Tech News: 2016-03
17:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 6
Hello there! Happy to be writing this newsletter once more. This month:
Some good news: the Wikimedia Foundation has renewed WikiProject X. This means we can continue focusing on making WikiProjects better.
During our first round of work, we created a prototype WikiProject based on two ideas: (1) WikiProjects should clearly present things for people to do, and (2) The content of WikiProjects should be automated as much as possible. We launched pilots, and for the most part it works. But this approach will not work for the long term. While it makes certain aspects of running a WikiProject easier, it makes the maintenance aspects harder.
We are working on a major overhaul that will address these issues. New features will include:
- Creating WikiProjects by simply filling out a form, choosing which reports you want to generate for your project. This will work with existing bots in addition to the Reports Bot reports. (Of course, you can also have sections curated by humans.)
- One-click button to join a WikiProject, with optional notifications.
- Be able to define your WikiProject's scope within the WikiProject itself by listing relevant pages and categories, eliminating the need to tag every talk page with a banner. (You will still be allowed to do that, of course. It just won't be required.)
The end goal is a collaboration tool that can be used by WikiProjects but also by any edit-a-thon or group of people that want to coordinate on improving articles. Though implemented as an extension, the underlying content will be wikitext, meaning that you can continue to use categories, templates, and other features as you normally would.
This will take a lot of work, and we are just getting started. What would you like to see? I invite you to discuss on our talk page.
Until next time,
The Signpost: 20 January 2016
- News and notes: Vote of no confidence; WMF trustee speaks out
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Please comment on Talk:2015 Chinese stock market crash
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Tech News: 2016-04
16:39, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 27 January 2016
- News and notes: Geshuri steps down from the Board
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- Recent research: Bursty edits; how politics beat religion but then lost to sports; notability as a glass ceiling
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Tech News: 2016-05
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Please comment on Talk:Housing in the United Kingdom
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Tech News: 2016-06
18:58, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 03 February 2016
- From the editors: Help wanted
- Special report: Board chair and new trustee speak with the Signpost
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Please comment on Talk:Erik Buell Racing
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The Signpost: 10 February 2016
- News and notes: Another WMF departure
- In the media: Jeb Bush swings at Wikipedia and connects
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Tech News: 2016-07
16:16, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Dollar Shave Club
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Tech News: 2016-08
18:22, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 7
This month:
Development of the extension for setting up WikiProjects, as described in the last issue of this newsletter, is currently underway. No terribly exciting news on this front.
In the meantime, we are working on a prototype for a new service we hope to announce soon. The problem: there are requests scattered all across Wikipedia, including requests for new articles and requests for improvements to existing articles. We Wikipedians are very good at coming up with lists of things to do. But once we write these lists, where do they end up? How can we make them useful for all editors—even those who do not browse the missing articles lists, or the particular WikiProjects that have lists?
Introducing Wikipedia Requests, a new tool to centralize the various lists of requests around Wikipedia. Requests will be tagged by category and WikiProject, making it easier to find requests based on what your interests are. Accompanying this service will be a bot that will let you generate reports from this database on any wiki page, including WikiProjects. This means that once a request is filed centrally, it can syndicated all throughout Wikipedia, and once it is fulfilled, it will be marked as "complete" throughout Wikipedia. The idea for this service came about when I saw that it was easy to put together to-do lists based on database queries, but it was harder to do this for human-generated requests when those requests are scattered throughout the wiki, siloed throughout several pages. This should especially be useful for WikiProjects that have overlapping interests.
The newsletter this month is fairly brief; not a lot of news, just checking in to say that we are hard at work and hope to have more for you soon.
Until next time,
Harej (talk) 01:43, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 24 February 2016
- Special report: WMF in limbo as decision on Tretikov nears
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Please comment on Talk:Israeli lira
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Tech News: 2016-09
20:12, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Penny
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Tech News: 2016-10
20:24, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 02 March 2016
- News and notes: Tretikov resigns, WMF in transition
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Please comment on Talk:Ford Pinto
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The Signpost: 09 March 2016
- News and notes: Katherine Maher named interim head of WMF; Wales email re-sparks Heilman controversy; draft WMF strategy posted
- Technology report: Wikimedia wikis will temporarily go into read-only mode on several occasions in the coming weeks
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Tech News: 2016-11
18:37, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 16 March 2016
- News and notes: Wikipedia Zero: Orange mobile partnership in Africa ends; the evolution of privacy loss in Wikipedia
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Please comment on Talk:Ale Resnik
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Tech News: 2016-12
16:04, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 23 March 2016
- News and notes: Lila Tretikov a Young Global Leader; Wikipediocracy blog post sparks indefinite blocks
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Tech News: 2016-13
19:43, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Amway
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The Signpost: 1 April 2016
- News and notes: Trump/Wales 2016
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"Women are everywhere"
Hi EllenCT. I'm an editor of the Italian Wikipedia. I'm trying to participate to an IEG with the project "Women are everywhere". You will find the draft at this link https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_are_everywhere It would be great if you could have a look at it. I need any kind of suggestion or advice to improve it. Support or endorsement would be fantastic. Many thanks,--Kenzia (talk) 12:23, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
- @Kenzia: thank you so much for your kind invitation. Have you seen http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?pid=S0038-23532015000300001&script=sci_arttext ? EllenCT (talk) 07:17, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes EllenCT, i've just seen it, thank you for the information. Grazie,--Kenzia (talk) 07:38, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- @EllenCT: The article http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?pid=S0038-23532015000300001&script=sci_arttext is really interesting. "There can be no more excuses". So very true. We must all do something. That's the reason why I'm trying to collaborate with the project https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_are_everywhere I hope to have your support. Sincerely,--Kenzia (talk) 08:35, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
Thank you EllenCT for your support! Grazie. --Kenzia (talk) 12:07, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Tech News: 2016-14
22:13, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Chrysler
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Chrysler. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
FYI
Connecticut Fighting For Free And Fair Elections
Not sure why the 😐 😒 .. you need to stay non-partisan? wbm1058 (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- @Wbm1058: thank you for the informative update! What does, "One can only hope that the Signpost scoop that he will be the running mate of Donald Trump University is dead wrong" mean? I probably misunderstood you. EllenCT (talk) 16:35, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- Just a little Before and After fun: "Before & After", a common category on the American game shows Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy!
- You have heard about the Trump University controversy? A prime example of the issue with education being driven by the primary motivation of making money off the students.
- So I definitely don't want to see Wales endorsing Trump, much less running on his ticket.
- I have little faith that President Hillary would do much more to solve the issue than implement an Obamacare type of band-aid. wbm1058 (talk) 16:48, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2016-04-01/News and notes, in case you didn't see that. There's been some controversy around that, too. An un-funny joke disparaging a living person. I have mixed feelings about the man, but this meme about his "small hands" should be put to bed. wbm1058 (talk) 16:55, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Tech News: 2016-15
20:44, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 14 April 2016
- News and notes: Denny Vrandečić resigns from Wikimedia Foundation board
- In the media: Wikimedia Sweden loses copyright case; Tex Watson; AI assistants; David Jolly biography
- Featured content: This week's featured content
- Traffic report: A welcome return to pop culture and death
- Arbitration report: The first case of 2016—Wikicology
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Please comment on Talk:John Carter (film)
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Tech News: 2016-16
20:40, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 8
This month:
In the last issue of the WikiProject X Newsletter, I discussed the upcoming Wikipedia Requests system: a central database for outstanding work on Wikipedia. I am pleased to announce Wikipedia Requests is live! Its purpose is to supplement automatically generated lists, such as those from SuggestBot, Reports bot, or Wikidata. It is currently being demonstrated on WikiProject Occupational Safety and Health (which I work on as part of my NIOSH duties) and WikiProject Women scientists.
Adding a request is as simple as filling out a form. Just go to the Add form to add your request. Adding sources will help ensure that your request is fulfilled more quickly. And when a request is fulfilled, simply click "mark as complete" and it will be removed from all the lists it's on. All at the click of a button! (If anyone is concerned, all actions are logged.)
With this new service is a template to transclude these requests: {{Wikipedia Requests}}. It's simple to use: add the template to a page, specifying article=
, category=
, or wikiproject=
, and the list will be transcluded. For example, for requests having to do with all living people, just do {{Wikipedia Requests|category=Living people}}
. Use these lists on WikiProjects but also for edit-a-thons where you want a convenient list of things to do on hand. Give it a shot!
The value of Wikipedia Requests comes from being a centralized database. The long work to migrating individual lists into this combined list is slowly underway. As of writing, we have 883 open tasks logged in Wikipedia Requests. We need your help building this list.
If you know of a list of missing articles, or of outstanding tasks for existing articles, that you would like to migrate to this new system, head on over to Wikipedia:Wikipedia Requests#Transition project and help out. Doing this will help put your list in front of more eyes—more than just your own WikiProject.
WikiProject X maintains a database that associates article talk pages (and draft talk pages) with WikiProjects. This database powers many of the reports that Reports bot generates. However, until very recently, this database was not made available to others who might find its data useful. It's only common sense to open up the database and let others build tools with it.
And indeed: Citation Hunt, the game to add citations to Wikipedia, now lets you filter by WikiProject, using the data from our database.
Are you a tool developer interested in using this? Here are some details: the database resides on Tool Labs with the name s52475__wpx_p
. The table that associates WikiProjects with articles and drafts is called projectindex
. Pages are stored by talk page title but in the future this should change. Have fun!
- The work on the CollaborationKit extension continues. The extension will initially focus on reducing template and Lua bloat on WikiProjects (especially our WPX UI demonstration projects), and will from there create custom interfaces for creating and maintaining WikiProjects.
- The WikiCite meeting will be in Berlin in May. The goal of the meeting is to figure out how to build a bibliographic database for use on the Wikimedia projects. This fits in quite nicely with WikiProject X's work: we want to make it easier for people to find things to work on, and with a powerful, open bibliographic database, we can build recommendations for sources. This feature was requested by the Wikipedia Library back in September, and this meeting is a major next step. We look forward to seeing what comes out of this meeting.
Until next time,
Harej (talk) 01:29, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Biodynamic agriculture
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The Signpost: 24 April 2016
- Special report: Update on EranBot, our new copyright violation detection bot
- Traffic report: Two for the price of one
- Featured content: The double-sized edition
- Arbitration report: Amendments made to the Race and intelligence case
Tech News: 2016-17
21:02, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Monowheel tractor
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The Signpost: 2 May 2016
- In the media: Wikipedia Zero piracy in Bangladesh; bureaucracy; chilling effects; too few cooks; translation gaps
- Traffic report: Purple
- Featured content: The best ... from the past two weeks
Tech News: 2016-18
20:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Hilton Worldwide
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Tech News: 2016-19
23:22, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Underreported stories
I missed your reply (14:16, 8 May 2016) to my post (18:19, 6 May 2016) until after the discussion was archived at 02:54, 10 May 2016, to User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 207#Underreported stories, and I found it when I was searching on that page for something else. My reply to your reply is: I do not know what their criteria are.
—Wavelength (talk) 03:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Notice of report to administrators noticeboard
I am required to notify you that you will be named in a complaint to the administrators' notice board.Phmoreno (talk) 12:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Why do you believe you will not again be subject to WP:BOOMERANG?[132] EllenCT (talk) 12:46, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:European Graduate School
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Tech News: 2016-20
16:01, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 17 May 2016
- Op-ed: Swiss chapter in turmoil
- In the media: Wikimedia's Dario Taraborelli quoted on Google's Knowledge Graph in The Washington Post
- Featured content: Two weeks for the prize of one
- Traffic report: Oh behave, Beyhive / Underdogs
- Arbitration report: "Wikicology" ends in site ban; evidence and workshop phases concluded for "Gamaliel and others"
- Wikicup: That's it for WikiCup Round 2!
Diacritics in article titles: mass creation of redirects from unadorned ASCII?
Howdy. Unfortunately our conversation on Jimmy's talk page was archived, so I'll write any interesting thoughts I have here. I was thinking, shouldn't all names with a diacritical equivalent have diacritics in the title? Working out the English transliteration is going to be much easier than working out which diacritics are used when. Rovingrobert (talk) 07:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, . Ref.: Wikipedia:Bot requests#Diacritics in article titles: mass creation of redirects from unadorned ASCII?. EllenCT (talk) 21:46, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't feel like I understand WP:TSC well enough to be able to rebut irate Wikipedians sternly enough. See this requested move as a recent example. Rovingrobert (talk) 08:09, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have recently been involved in unintentional canvassing. As a duty of care, I must inform you that the purpose of my posting the above link was not to votestack, merely to illustrate how much current opinion is stacked against the use of diacritics. Rovingrobert (talk) 07:04, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Rovingrobert: how do you propose to keep from accidentally including offensive terms in automatically generated redirects? I am afraid that problem makes the idea of a bot for WP:TSC unlikely to be successful. EllenCT (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
@Rich Farmbrough: would you rather figure out the impolite corner cases[139] or do awesome work to improve the encyclopedia? EllenCT (talk) 22:24, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- The diacritics work is fairly trivial to do, but quite useful, I don't see as a corner case. I do not have a Pinterest account - I don't know what (pin-)point you are making here. I would use Octave to create a graph, or write an SVG directly. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:19, 18 May 2016 (UTC).
- @Rich Farmbrough: how do you propose to keep from accidentally including offensive terms in automatically generated redirects? Forget Pinterest. What is your interest level in making a WP:MOSTEDITED-style list of the lowest quality popular articles for the WP:BACKLOG? EllenCT (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Do you mean names such as Bum-suk? I don't think these redirects are a problem, however offensive. They are redirects. We have explicit rules allowing offensive redirects if they are useful. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:50, 21 May 2016 (UTC).
- @Rich Farmbrough: which rules allow that? I'd be afraid someone's name without diacritics could be the name of an animal. Here's what I have so far: Wikipedia:Bot requests#Python help please? EllenCT (talk) 09:32, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's not a diacritics redirect but a transliteration choice in that case. But the same principles apply.
- @Rich Farmbrough: which rules allow that? I'd be afraid someone's name without diacritics could be the name of an animal. Here's what I have so far: Wikipedia:Bot requests#Python help please? EllenCT (talk) 09:32, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Do you mean names such as Bum-suk? I don't think these redirects are a problem, however offensive. They are redirects. We have explicit rules allowing offensive redirects if they are useful. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:50, 21 May 2016 (UTC).
- @Rich Farmbrough: how do you propose to keep from accidentally including offensive terms in automatically generated redirects? Forget Pinterest. What is your interest level in making a WP:MOSTEDITED-style list of the lowest quality popular articles for the WP:BACKLOG? EllenCT (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
if a redirect represents an established term that is used in multiple mainstream reliable sources, it should be kept even if non-neutral, as it will facilitate searches on such terms
— WPRFD
- All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:00, 22 May 2016 (UTC).
- @Rich Farmbrough: fair enough and fine with me, but what do you need to ask permission to do this? WP:BAG and an Arbcom remedy amendment, in that order? Don't forget to fill them out in triplicate. EllenCT (talk) 15:06, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:29, 23 May 2016 (UTC).
- All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:00, 22 May 2016 (UTC).
Tech News: 2016-21
18:40, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Template talk:Anarchism sidebar
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Anarchism sidebar. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
Administrators' noticeboard
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phmoreno (talk • contribs)
- I deny the allegations and have asked for a restriction on Phmoreno's editing. EllenCT (talk) 22:31, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
The Signpost: 28 May 2016
- News and notes: Upcoming Wikimedia conferences in the US and India; May Metrics and Activities Meeting
- Special report: Compensation paid to Sue Gardner increased by almost 50 percent after she stepped down as executive director
- Featured content: Eight articles, three lists and five pictures
- Op-ed: Journey of a Wikipedian
- Arbitration report: Gamaliel resigns from the arbitration committee
- Recent research: English as Wikipedia's Lingua Franca; deletion rationales; schizophrenia controversies
- Traffic report: Splitting (musical) airs / Slow Ride
Tech News: 2016-22
16:19, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Emma Watson
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Emma Watson. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Some unsolicited advise
Dear Ellen, I believe you know my political views. As an academic, one of my main topics of interest is economic inequality, and I am a firm believer in a universal basic income. I am probably one of a small minority who would support a very high tax on unearned income, a 100% inheritance tax, and a 100% tax on income derived from land. Even though I share your political leanings, I feel that your aggressiveness on Wikipedia is actually detrimental the cause of making sure that Wikipedia is not distorted by the systemic bias that comes from the fact that people who edit Wikipedia are predominately white, male, libertarian, technology users. The work of making sure that Wikipedia presents facts, and and not right-wing bigotry, requires cooperation from a broad coalition of people who want the encyclopedia to reflect scientific facts (which have a well-known liberal bias {smirk}). This work would be easier if we relax a bit, assume good faith from other editors, and try to work towards consensus among people interested in a topic, and work hard towards honestly backing our edits with reliable sources. I feel that your recent interaction with Volunteer Marek was not helping things. Marek is a good guy and a good editor, it's not helpful to turn likely allies into enemies (something Donald Trump can't seem to learn, so hopefully he will lose in a landslide this November {smirk again}). If you would be a little less sure that you know the truth, and be a little bit more willing to listen and compromise, I think you'll contribute a lot more to this encyclopedia. regards, LK (talk) 02:22, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Lawrencekhoo: what is your opinion of User:Wnt's comments on Talk:Economic growth? I have not edited that article this year, but I think Wnt had some very good advice. He pointed out what Marek had deleted, agrees with our policies that actual literature reviews are more reliable than review sections of primary research papers, and provided some very specific advice that I intend to follow. I am also interested in your opinion of James K. Galbraith's assertion that,
“ | when attempting to make major changes the right strategy is to proceed and to take up the challenge of obstacles or changing circumstances as they arise. That is, after all, what Roosevelt did in the New Deal and what Lyndon Johnson did in the 1960s. Neither one could have proceeded if today’s economists had been around at that time.[152] | ” |
- Do you believe that economists generally underestimate the long term trends modulating demand from consumer spending and net worth? Our articles are salted with supply side trickle down nonsense; tax incidence for example. What do you propose to address the systemic bias to which you refer? EllenCT (talk) 04:51, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm happy to see that you are taking my comments in the spirit they were given in. As for your questions, I think Wnt is editing in good faith, and that what he's saying makes sense. However, it's also pretty obvious that he's not familiar with the literature. But such is the way of wikipedia. It's up to Marek to bring sources to back his statements to convince Wnt. Marek's dismissiveness reflects, to some extent, the fact that he knows the economics literature, and needs to convince people who do not, that what he's saying is right. I'm going to have a talk with Marek, as he needs to be more patient. I think that he's been contributing to the tension lately, and he could stand to be more civil. About the Galbraith quote, some strategies that may work in government, are not necessarily the best strategies to pursue in a collegial environment. Bulldozing things through doesn't really work in Wikipedia. At the end of the day, stuff only sticks if we have managed to convince the other editors that it accurately reflects the literature. LK (talk) 10:13, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Lawrencekhoo: do you think I should ask about Marek's sources on WP:RSN before or after taking Wnt's advice to restore the material deleted at [153]? EllenCT (talk) 22:36, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm happy to see that you are taking my comments in the spirit they were given in. As for your questions, I think Wnt is editing in good faith, and that what he's saying makes sense. However, it's also pretty obvious that he's not familiar with the literature. But such is the way of wikipedia. It's up to Marek to bring sources to back his statements to convince Wnt. Marek's dismissiveness reflects, to some extent, the fact that he knows the economics literature, and needs to convince people who do not, that what he's saying is right. I'm going to have a talk with Marek, as he needs to be more patient. I think that he's been contributing to the tension lately, and he could stand to be more civil. About the Galbraith quote, some strategies that may work in government, are not necessarily the best strategies to pursue in a collegial environment. Bulldozing things through doesn't really work in Wikipedia. At the end of the day, stuff only sticks if we have managed to convince the other editors that it accurately reflects the literature. LK (talk) 10:13, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- In a contentious situation, Wikipedia policy and best practice is to refrain from inserting material until there is consensus for inclusion. Whenever things are contentious, as in this case, I would ask on the notice board first. If consensus cannot be reached, even after response from the notice board, then hold a RFC on the issue. LK (talk) 00:27, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Lawrencekhoo: my experience observing the RSN is that there aren't enough people responding to keep my WP:TAGTEAM from getting there first with the usual vapid series of pro forma rationales without details and with no responses to requests for details. User:Wnt has already surmised the situation in the way I believe any sufficient number of generally unbiased Wikipedians familiar with the reliable source criteria would. How about if I replace the deleted material first, and then ask at WT:NPOV whether the question on the use of review sections of primary research opposed to the consensus of fully WP:SECONDARY literature reviews reaching a conclusion, which I know is still the situation on the underlying topic, is most appropriate for mention in WP:UNDUE and/or WP:SYSTEMICBIAS, or on the reliable sources noticeboard, or an RFC? EllenCT (talk) 01:41, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- In some respects, Wikipedia is a democracy of those who are present. However, in this case, I feel that you may not be getting the response you would like from the noticeboard, perhaps because the members don't see things the way you do, or they believe that the situation is muddied and hard to comment on. If you are sure that a group of impartial reasonable people would support you, and that WP:Local consensus does not reflect the views of the community as a whole, then the best thing is to call a RfC, and advertise it on the Economics project talk page. If you do not think that a group of impartial reasonable people would support you, then it's best to drop the issue. Over the years, I've come to appreciate the Wikipedia system. More often than not, with our insistence on procedure and on sources, a group of impartial strangers will correctly agree about what reflects the scientific literature. LK (talk) 03:35, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- @EllenCT: I think there's a bit of difference between your emphasis and mine, in that I don't actually object to using literature reviews in primary sources; I simply object to removing sources that are relevant. I feel like Marek lobbies hard for his particular point of view, and you do try to see yours represented also, and that wouldn't have to be a bad thing, if everyone sticks to adding more and more sources and viewpoints. To my way of thinking, POV only becomes a problem when people start deleting stuff, and my impression during the short time I looked at the article is that Marek does that more than you. So I think that the most productive thing to get together for your RFC is a list of all the sources that you think are good that have been taken out/reverted at some point in the development of the article. I want all those, plus whatever text it takes to wind a garden path among them. But do note I wouldn't deny Marek the same thing; what I want is a big article studded with facts that lies out multiple disagreeing points of view and explains each one well enough that we know why people say it is right and why they say it is wrong. Wnt (talk) 03:55, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Lawrencekhoo: impartial reasonable people support me, and I am sure I could get my opposition to agree with me if they would engage.
- @Wnt: I agree, simply replacing the deleted material is the best idea, but I feel like I should do something else first. EllenCT (talk) 05:18, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- In some respects, Wikipedia is a democracy of those who are present. However, in this case, I feel that you may not be getting the response you would like from the noticeboard, perhaps because the members don't see things the way you do, or they believe that the situation is muddied and hard to comment on. If you are sure that a group of impartial reasonable people would support you, and that WP:Local consensus does not reflect the views of the community as a whole, then the best thing is to call a RfC, and advertise it on the Economics project talk page. If you do not think that a group of impartial reasonable people would support you, then it's best to drop the issue. Over the years, I've come to appreciate the Wikipedia system. More often than not, with our insistence on procedure and on sources, a group of impartial strangers will correctly agree about what reflects the scientific literature. LK (talk) 03:35, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Lawrencekhoo: my experience observing the RSN is that there aren't enough people responding to keep my WP:TAGTEAM from getting there first with the usual vapid series of pro forma rationales without details and with no responses to requests for details. User:Wnt has already surmised the situation in the way I believe any sufficient number of generally unbiased Wikipedians familiar with the reliable source criteria would. How about if I replace the deleted material first, and then ask at WT:NPOV whether the question on the use of review sections of primary research opposed to the consensus of fully WP:SECONDARY literature reviews reaching a conclusion, which I know is still the situation on the underlying topic, is most appropriate for mention in WP:UNDUE and/or WP:SYSTEMICBIAS, or on the reliable sources noticeboard, or an RFC? EllenCT (talk) 01:41, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- In a contentious situation, Wikipedia policy and best practice is to refrain from inserting material until there is consensus for inclusion. Whenever things are contentious, as in this case, I would ask on the notice board first. If consensus cannot be reached, even after response from the notice board, then hold a RFC on the issue. LK (talk) 00:27, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia talk:Neutral point of view#Undue use of primary source literature review sections to delete material in Economic growth. EllenCT (talk) 05:45, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
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You are involved in an incident on the Administrators notice board
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding Disruptive edits. The discussion is about the topic Economic stagnation. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phmoreno (talk • contribs)
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Read WP:Blanking and the accompanying essay WP:DRC. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:04, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
This is regarding [169], a warning about [170]. EllenCT (talk) 12:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
- John placed the warning which was subsequently seen and removed by Phmoreno as is his right on his talkpage. You then reverted the warning back onto their talkpage - you were obviously able to see it had been removed and the revision history is clear. There are limited items which have to remain on a user's talkpage. Warnings are not one of them per the above links. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:46, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Notice of Community Sanction
I have closed the ANI thread about you with the following result: EllenCT (talk · contribs) is indefinitely topic banned from all edits and pages related to Economics, broadly construed. Formal logging of this restriction can be found here. More information can be found at Wikipedia:Banning policy. The WordsmithTalk to me 16:11, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
- I intend to appeal this decision after the close of the two RFCs, in order to apply for mediation if necessary. EllenCT (talk) 16:46, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
- That is, of course, your right. Also note that I'm considering amending the restriction, specifically removing "pages", because it might be too restrictive with unintended consequences. I'm examining precedent and considering a new wording, and will let you know if I alter it. The WordsmithTalk to me 17:01, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
- Note that I have rephrased the restriction as follows: EllenCT (talk · contribs) is indefinitely banned from the topic of economics, broadly construed. The WordsmithTalk to me 17:33, 23 June 2016 (UTC)