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::Is this the question you have been waiting for an answer for? if so, I regret taking so long to answer it, I only now saw it. I suppose what i wrote was vague. First off, I could just have easily written 19th/20th century - my point is, an article about modern Europeans, EuroAmericans, African Americans, not ancient Egyptians. Secondly, my sentence does not refer to "afrocentrists." I take it for granted that there is a controversy because of a debate between Afrocentrists, Eurocentrists, and probably other views. dab's comment is tendentious and frankly offensive for two reasons. First, the title of he article does not specify Afrocentric so he is distorting the situation. Second, by singling out Afrocentrists (who, with the possible exception of Martin Bernal, are all or mostly Black), he is implying that it is Blacks who hold nutty views. The fact is, when I look at popular views of topics of scholarly research, from evolution to who built the pyramids, it seems to me that most non-scientists/scholars hold pretty nutty views. I have even seen documentaries produced by the National Geogfraphic, Discover, and History channels promote nuty views (by which i mean, views that most historians or anthropologists or geographers would dismiss as fringe). dab's comment suggests that there is a controversy only because some people are Afrocentric. Other editors have pointed out that several people who have written about ancient Egypt were Eurocentric, and that this is part of the "controversy." I do not see how any progress can be made on this article as long as it is characterized as promoting afrocentric views. Now, i know that some editors have tried to use the article to promote afrocentric views. So what? Screw them. There are other editors who are trying to use the article not to promote any view but to provide an account of a controversy. I'd like to give those editors time to look for articles by anthropologists, sociologists, intellectual historians, or cultural studies people because i think it is quite likely that someone in one of these disciplines has analyzed how debates over the race of ancient Egyptians actually have been motivated by and reveal something about race relations in the 19th and 20th centuries. An article that explores this would be a pretty interesting article in my view. But as long as some people characterize it as a controversy between Afrocentrists and scientists, we will get nowhere. Let the article on Egyptian history or Ancient Egyptians draw on mainstream research by scholars. Let the "controversy" article be about popular views about a particular historical topic - some Afrocentric, some Eurocentric, and all revealing something about how modern people (not necessarily historians, but maybe just regular people) think about history. History is regularly politicized, if this is a new idea to you I highly recommend historian Mike Wallace's ''Mickey mouse History''. But blacks and whites are equally capabl of politicizing history and if as dab suggests this article should put all the weight on afrocentrists, well, then ''he'' is politicizing it. [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]] | [[User talk:Slrubenstein|Talk]] 13:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC) |
::Is this the question you have been waiting for an answer for? if so, I regret taking so long to answer it, I only now saw it. I suppose what i wrote was vague. First off, I could just have easily written 19th/20th century - my point is, an article about modern Europeans, EuroAmericans, African Americans, not ancient Egyptians. Secondly, my sentence does not refer to "afrocentrists." I take it for granted that there is a controversy because of a debate between Afrocentrists, Eurocentrists, and probably other views. dab's comment is tendentious and frankly offensive for two reasons. First, the title of he article does not specify Afrocentric so he is distorting the situation. Second, by singling out Afrocentrists (who, with the possible exception of Martin Bernal, are all or mostly Black), he is implying that it is Blacks who hold nutty views. The fact is, when I look at popular views of topics of scholarly research, from evolution to who built the pyramids, it seems to me that most non-scientists/scholars hold pretty nutty views. I have even seen documentaries produced by the National Geogfraphic, Discover, and History channels promote nuty views (by which i mean, views that most historians or anthropologists or geographers would dismiss as fringe). dab's comment suggests that there is a controversy only because some people are Afrocentric. Other editors have pointed out that several people who have written about ancient Egypt were Eurocentric, and that this is part of the "controversy." I do not see how any progress can be made on this article as long as it is characterized as promoting afrocentric views. Now, i know that some editors have tried to use the article to promote afrocentric views. So what? Screw them. There are other editors who are trying to use the article not to promote any view but to provide an account of a controversy. I'd like to give those editors time to look for articles by anthropologists, sociologists, intellectual historians, or cultural studies people because i think it is quite likely that someone in one of these disciplines has analyzed how debates over the race of ancient Egyptians actually have been motivated by and reveal something about race relations in the 19th and 20th centuries. An article that explores this would be a pretty interesting article in my view. But as long as some people characterize it as a controversy between Afrocentrists and scientists, we will get nowhere. Let the article on Egyptian history or Ancient Egyptians draw on mainstream research by scholars. Let the "controversy" article be about popular views about a particular historical topic - some Afrocentric, some Eurocentric, and all revealing something about how modern people (not necessarily historians, but maybe just regular people) think about history. History is regularly politicized, if this is a new idea to you I highly recommend historian Mike Wallace's ''Mickey mouse History''. But blacks and whites are equally capabl of politicizing history and if as dab suggests this article should put all the weight on afrocentrists, well, then ''he'' is politicizing it. [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]] | [[User talk:Slrubenstein|Talk]] 13:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC) |
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Slrubenstein quite obviously has no idea what he is talking about and would profit from reading the article. For all his involvement in "race" articles, I am dumbfounded at the naive and confused grasp on the topic he still appears to have. |
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The above is very close to a direct personal attack on me. |
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No, I am not implying that "Blacks hold nutty views". I am implying that some people hold nutty views, and it is our job to keep them off the wiki. This appears to work reasonably well as long as the nutters are white power Neo-Nazi Nordicists, and if you know anything about my involvement in ethnic nationalism topics you would know that I have been combatting those, too. It is just ''very easy'' to get rid of your typical Neo-Nazi nutter, while it seems to be almost impossible to get rid of your typical Afrocentrist Black Power nutter, because if these are banned, people are sure to stand up and complain "but how could you ban him ... he's black!". |
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My answer to this is that I don't give a damn what colour, shape, flavour or scent a Wikipedian is, I simply react to their edits. I am extremely tired of this US game of "playing the race card". It's racist. There I've said it. |
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No, there is no controversy over the "race of Ancient Egyptians". Not between "Afrocentrists and Eurocentrists" and certainlyh not between scholars. This is just a red herring used by Afrocentrists to create political noise. |
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If Slrubinstein feels that this article should discuss how "debates over the race of ancient Egyptians actually have been motivated by and reveal something about race relations in the 19th and 20th centuries" then I cordially invite him to sit down and write this article already. I am not holding my breath. I have been watching this article for literally FOUR years, and all it ever attracted was Afrocentric bs. That was until Moreschi sat down and put it straight. Now my entire involvement in this most recent eruption has been defending Moreschi's sane version from the most recent outbreak of Afrocentrist trolling. If Slrubenstein thinks he can actually improve on Moreschi's version, let him just put his money where his mouth is and do it already instead of filling talkpages with oblique attacks on me. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] <small>[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]</small> 15:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC) |
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Welcome to my talk page! I am an administrator here on Wikipedia. That means I am here to help. It does not mean that I have any special status or something, it just means that I get to push a few extra buttons to help maintain this encyclopedia. If you need help with something, feel free to ask. Click to start a new topic.
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First, please remember that I am not trying to attack you, demean you, or hurt you in any way. I am only trying to protect the integrity of this project. If I did something wrong, , but remember that I am human, and I do make mistakes. Please keep your comments civil. If you vandalize this page or swear at me, you will not only decrease the likelihood of a response, your edits could get you blocked. (see WP:NPA) When posting, do not assume I know which article you are talking about. If you leave a message saying "Why did you revert me?", I will not know what you mean. If you want a response consisting of something other than "What are you talking about", please include links and, if possible, diffs in your message. At the very least, mention the name of the article or user you are concerned with. If you are blocked from editing, you cannot post here, but your talk page is most likely open for you to edit. To request a review of your block, add Administrators: If you see me do something that you think is wrong, I will not consider it wheel-warring if you undo my actions. I would, however, appreciate it if you let me know what I did wrong, so that I can avoid doing it in the future. |
You can email me from this link but in the interests of Wiki-transparency, please message me on this page unless there are pressing reasons to do otherwise.
Comments which I find to be uncivil, full of vulgarities, flame baiting, or that are are excessively rude may be deleted without response. If I choose not to answer, that's my right, don't keep putting it back. I'll just delete and get annoyed at you.
removal of Voynich link...
magazine xian for expats-deletion? because of link?
hello there,
i am not the owner of new dynasty magazine xian but a happy reader. in good faith i added them because they are the only online magazine in this city for foreigners i know of. you know i live here. i know it. you do not live here. so reason enough for me, seems a valuable update! you should reconsider.
Jaherold09 (talk) 17:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Hey, Doug...Why Blocking from editing if disruptive editing ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by PAGEADDER (talk • contribs) 00:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
This user has requested unblock. Just letting you know as blocking admin. Stifle (talk) 13:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
- Noted that at ANI, if he complies, please unblock him if I don't do it first. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 13:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
- He has withdrawn his over-the-top comments. I will unblock him. Thanks! Pastor Theo (talk) 20:16, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Thx for the info, Doug! However, does the "normal procedure" apply here?
Imho it would have been reasonable not to apply it in this case, because this noticeboard posting isn'T only about the convicted sockpuppet, but also about others who have been banned. And it's a fact that the deletion of "Waxman"'s comments makes the discussion a bit hard to follow. Also, I wonder about Ryulong implementing the deletions. He has been desysopped recently, and so has an obvious POV in discussions about "admins vs contributors". Imho it would have been better if he had abstained from making this deletions. That's why I asked for someone else to review this. However, thx for giving me the info! (uh, one more question: Why can't I add an edit summary to this comment?)Gray62 (talk) 14:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Good call on Subman758
I caught him posting a photo I released (CC-by-SA) to Wikipedia and posting on Panaromio as his own (I found out because of Google Maps). I pointed it out on Panaromio and he replied with vile threats. Thankfully the staff at Panaromio were quick to rectify the situation. Then I discovered he had the exact same username here nad tapped him on the shoulder, and the comment (along with other warnings from his antics) immediately disappeared off his talk page. As an admin, I felt slightly conflicted over the situation --i.e. could I take action here for blatant, unrepentant theft over there-- and I decided to just keep his page on watch. --Bobak (talk) 16:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
- Re Subman758, I would be tempted to leave the indef in place, regardless of his answer about the legal threat. (The tone of his banter about the threat is very off-putting). Not sure how much data somebody should collect to justify that action. One idea is to make a list of all the problems he has created, and ask him to commit to fixing the situation. If there is no appropriate answer, then leave the indef in place. EdJohnston (talk) 17:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Preventing school violence
I had previously asked you if sources that use other sources for part of their work are acceptable at wikipedia. Many of the sources in archaeology often do this but this is a different subject. Everything I do on the Preventing school violence page is being challenged even though it is all sourced by what seem like reliable sources to me. I have created a seperate unofficial article pending resolution of the dispute and am working on that for now. It is here: User:Zacherystaylor/preventing school violence. After noticing the closest thing to prevention on the school shooting page involved arming teachers and shooting students at the last minute I thought there could be something better so I created the Preventing school violence article to link to it and have had a hard time convincing people not to delete links or the article itself. If you can help on this it would be appreciated. If not I'm going to work on the unofficial version before going farther. Good day Zacherystaylor (talk) 18:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
- I see some confusion and uncivil language on the talk page, and have posted about both. I haven't read it all in detail but I think you should take seriously Alaric's comment just above hthe new section I created. Dougweller (talk) 12:22, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Sock it to me
Haha, he missed that are indeed the same person! (<- that is a joke in case any idiots are reading). I'm sorry you were left out. Maybe you'll be included in the next one, 10/8/09. Verbal chat 13:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
User:SOPHIAN and maps
Hi, I noticed your warning to SOPHIAN on his talkpage has been deleted by him, but he has also started a programme of deleting other people's maps, some of which I think are OK. This subject has BTW been discussed a few times on WP:HGH. My understanding is that maps where the data is put together and mapped by a Wikipedian need to be looked at as potential OR, depending upon obviousness, while straight scans of maps risk being deleted as OR. However I understood that non-slavish reproductions of published maps, noting their sourcing, are OK. Trying to engage SOPHIAN on talkpages is not very easy.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 06:03, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps also of interest to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_talk:R1A_map.jpg. --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 07:17, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Akhenaten page
Did you get my email regarding the Akhenaten page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zululep (talk • contribs) 07:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, and replied to it also, saying something like your edits had no edit summaries and did remove a lot of text, and you were editing without an account, and that combination always sets off alarm bells. I'm not sure why you removed so much text. We can of course show what reliable sources think - their opinions, if you will, and in fact we should so long as they are significant and we are representing current thought. If you'd made edit summaries explaining what you were doing, it's much less likely I wouldn't have reverted. Shall we discuss the article on its talk page? Dougweller (talk) 15:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Ancient Egyptian Race Controversy
Can you help me understand what is going on? I have not looked at this pae for a while but the last time I did I found Ancient Observer and Wdford to be thoughtful constructive editors and now they are banned. Do you understand what they did to get themselves banned?
On another note, I have my own proposal that is meant to help resolve the conflicts: have one article on the controversy, but mak it explicitly an article about scholars, journalists, activists, living in the twentieth century and using an argument over the past to forward present-day agendas, and have either an article or just a section in the article on Egyptian history that limits itself to acknowledged scholars of Ancient near Eastern history and archeology as sources, for separate discusions concerning (1) what we know about Egyptian demography and (2) what we know about how Egyptians classified themselves and others (such classifications understood to be social constructions). By this propoal, if an acknolwedged scholar has claimed that the ancient Egyptians had a notion of race, that could go into the article but properly contextualized and explained.
Thoughts? Slrubenstein | Talk 02:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
- You called this comment tendentious: "as the article title makes clear, this article is about the Afrocentric "race controversy", not about prehistoric Egypt in general.". How does that statement differ from your suggestion to "have one article on the controversy, but mak it explicitly an article about scholars, journalists, activists, living in the twentieth century and using an argument over the past to forward present-day agendas,"? Dougweller (talk) 05:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
- Is this the question you have been waiting for an answer for? if so, I regret taking so long to answer it, I only now saw it. I suppose what i wrote was vague. First off, I could just have easily written 19th/20th century - my point is, an article about modern Europeans, EuroAmericans, African Americans, not ancient Egyptians. Secondly, my sentence does not refer to "afrocentrists." I take it for granted that there is a controversy because of a debate between Afrocentrists, Eurocentrists, and probably other views. dab's comment is tendentious and frankly offensive for two reasons. First, the title of he article does not specify Afrocentric so he is distorting the situation. Second, by singling out Afrocentrists (who, with the possible exception of Martin Bernal, are all or mostly Black), he is implying that it is Blacks who hold nutty views. The fact is, when I look at popular views of topics of scholarly research, from evolution to who built the pyramids, it seems to me that most non-scientists/scholars hold pretty nutty views. I have even seen documentaries produced by the National Geogfraphic, Discover, and History channels promote nuty views (by which i mean, views that most historians or anthropologists or geographers would dismiss as fringe). dab's comment suggests that there is a controversy only because some people are Afrocentric. Other editors have pointed out that several people who have written about ancient Egypt were Eurocentric, and that this is part of the "controversy." I do not see how any progress can be made on this article as long as it is characterized as promoting afrocentric views. Now, i know that some editors have tried to use the article to promote afrocentric views. So what? Screw them. There are other editors who are trying to use the article not to promote any view but to provide an account of a controversy. I'd like to give those editors time to look for articles by anthropologists, sociologists, intellectual historians, or cultural studies people because i think it is quite likely that someone in one of these disciplines has analyzed how debates over the race of ancient Egyptians actually have been motivated by and reveal something about race relations in the 19th and 20th centuries. An article that explores this would be a pretty interesting article in my view. But as long as some people characterize it as a controversy between Afrocentrists and scientists, we will get nowhere. Let the article on Egyptian history or Ancient Egyptians draw on mainstream research by scholars. Let the "controversy" article be about popular views about a particular historical topic - some Afrocentric, some Eurocentric, and all revealing something about how modern people (not necessarily historians, but maybe just regular people) think about history. History is regularly politicized, if this is a new idea to you I highly recommend historian Mike Wallace's Mickey mouse History. But blacks and whites are equally capabl of politicizing history and if as dab suggests this article should put all the weight on afrocentrists, well, then he is politicizing it. Slrubenstein | Talk 13:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Slrubenstein quite obviously has no idea what he is talking about and would profit from reading the article. For all his involvement in "race" articles, I am dumbfounded at the naive and confused grasp on the topic he still appears to have.
The above is very close to a direct personal attack on me. No, I am not implying that "Blacks hold nutty views". I am implying that some people hold nutty views, and it is our job to keep them off the wiki. This appears to work reasonably well as long as the nutters are white power Neo-Nazi Nordicists, and if you know anything about my involvement in ethnic nationalism topics you would know that I have been combatting those, too. It is just very easy to get rid of your typical Neo-Nazi nutter, while it seems to be almost impossible to get rid of your typical Afrocentrist Black Power nutter, because if these are banned, people are sure to stand up and complain "but how could you ban him ... he's black!".
My answer to this is that I don't give a damn what colour, shape, flavour or scent a Wikipedian is, I simply react to their edits. I am extremely tired of this US game of "playing the race card". It's racist. There I've said it.
No, there is no controversy over the "race of Ancient Egyptians". Not between "Afrocentrists and Eurocentrists" and certainlyh not between scholars. This is just a red herring used by Afrocentrists to create political noise.
If Slrubinstein feels that this article should discuss how "debates over the race of ancient Egyptians actually have been motivated by and reveal something about race relations in the 19th and 20th centuries" then I cordially invite him to sit down and write this article already. I am not holding my breath. I have been watching this article for literally FOUR years, and all it ever attracted was Afrocentric bs. That was until Moreschi sat down and put it straight. Now my entire involvement in this most recent eruption has been defending Moreschi's sane version from the most recent outbreak of Afrocentrist trolling. If Slrubenstein thinks he can actually improve on Moreschi's version, let him just put his money where his mouth is and do it already instead of filling talkpages with oblique attacks on me. --dab (𒁳) 15:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)