DangerousPanda (talk | contribs) →Responses: replies |
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:My view, and the view of the community as expressed in policy, is that admins need to be cool headed almost all of the time, even when provoked. It's understandable that many people blow their tops occasionally. The concern is that these outbursts, taken in consideration with the sometimes sarcastic, condescending, and authoritarian tone that you frequently use, leaves one wondering if you're not operating in a near-constant stress mode. - [[user: MrX|Mr]][[user talk:MrX|X]] 14:38, 22 October 2014 (UTC) |
:My view, and the view of the community as expressed in policy, is that admins need to be cool headed almost all of the time, even when provoked. It's understandable that many people blow their tops occasionally. The concern is that these outbursts, taken in consideration with the sometimes sarcastic, condescending, and authoritarian tone that you frequently use, leaves one wondering if you're not operating in a near-constant stress mode. - [[user: MrX|Mr]][[user talk:MrX|X]] 14:38, 22 October 2014 (UTC) |
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:: {{replyto|MrX}} You put some odd examples then ... sometimes in odd orders too! But they do, in some cases help establish something else. ArbComm has, for example, essentially stated that "baiting" is unacceptable behaviour. No editor - admin, IP, named account - can bait another party with impunity. For example, we CANNOT ever put ourselves into someone's head and ascribe meaning to their actions. So, if editor A says to editor B "you did this because you were thinking XYZ!", and editor B says "um, no...guaranteed, no", then it is wholly inappropriate for editor A to continue baiting editor B with that same or similar statements. |
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:: I'm aware that "perception" takes over, and the written word has its challenges. However, we as a ''community of interest'' has to take [[WP:AGF]] at face value, and thus value the statements of our editing colleagues. A further extension of this is treating people like adults. Hell, I'm in my mid-30's, there NO need to tell me to stay away from something if it's blatantly obvious that I should stay away from something. Respect is a 2-way street, as is civility. You cannot poke and poke and poke and then be shocked when you get an actual ''human'' response from ''anybody''. |
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:: Am I saying that in most of the cases you provided above I was provoked? In these cases above, yes. Is it that way in all cases? Admittedly and absolutely, no. Can I say for certain that someone has got angry a number of times on Wikipedia because they either misread my comments, or ascribed their own meaning to it? Yes. In most cases, after a quick clarification between 2 editors, everything went well - I'm a pretty approachable guy as long as someone approaches me with a willingness to AGF. |
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:: Try as anyone might, we can '''never''' make our words so bulletproof that someone won't misread them. I make a living with the written word, and obviously I still don't always get my point across correctly. There is always going to be some form of interpretation/filtering, and it's not intentional by any of us. If we are, indeed, an AGF-community, then if someone misreads my comment, and I explain/correct it ... then we're all REQUIRED to AGF that ''that was indeed what was meant''. I ''am'' human. We're ''all'' human. We have backgrounds, histories, differing levels of education, various levels of English grammar. Because of the variances of the human condition, we have no choice but to AGF if we're going to act as a community. I can only think of twice in all my years here where I ever '''intended''' to insult or condescend (there, I admitted it). |
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:: Twice. |
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:: Period. |
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:: Above all, the one thing that people know about me here is '''I don't bullshit about what I mean'''. Period. If I say "look, I never intended to insult you", then it means '''I never intended what I typed to come across as an insult, and I'm honestly sorry if it did'''. It means nothing else, and you can take my statement to the bank. |
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:: Now, if you'll excuse me for a bit, we have a bit of a serious incident in the heart of my city, and since I still carry Kevlar, a Camera, and a Notepad, I have a few things to do <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User talk:DangerousPanda|<font style="color:#ffffff;background:black;"> the panda </font><font style="color:#000000;background:white;"> ₯’</font>]]</span></small> 15:45, 22 October 2014 (UTC) |
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== [[User:Kkm010]] at ANI again == |
== [[User:Kkm010]] at ANI again == |
Revision as of 15:45, 22 October 2014
Beware! This user's talk page is monitored by talk page watchers. Some of them even talk back. |
UTRS Account Request
I confirm that I have requested an account on the UTRS tool. the panda ₯’
Advice
Hello! I was really interested in learning how you had edited your talk page, so I clicked edit and got your even cooler backend. I was wondering if you could point me in a direction that would show me how to do that as well. Recently, my gender has been getting confused, with people using the wrong pronoun. It really doesn't bother me, but, as wikipedia gets more and more users, it would be cool to be able to give trans/gender ambiguous/queer/nonconforming folks the ability to post a notice (like your's on the talk page edit screen) that says "hey, this is my preferred pronoun when you're speaking about me in the third person."
So long story short, send me what you know!Thebrycepeake (talk) 21:32, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
- LOL ... all my stuff is pure trial, error, borrow/modify. I'm not a computer-tech-dude generally. In terms of gender, YOU set that in your preferences when you first signed up, or you can click your preferences tab to do it now the panda ₯’ 11:18, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
rfcu
Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/DangerousPanda-EatsShootsAndLeaves (not certified yet). NE Ent 15:55, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
- Now deleted due to lack of proper certification after more than 48 hours. Please join the discussion on my talk page. We should not ignore the underlying dispute(s). What would be ideal is for everybody to get their concerns addressed one way or another. Jehochman Talk 01:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Help
Hi, how are yo?. I need your help as a librarian. It turns out that in the article Afro-Latin American placed an erroneous Venezuelan black population of about 5 million people and attach with a reference which I believe is not due; as the only authority to offer and ethnic demographics in Venezuela is "INE" who points a much lower [1] I corrected the info, and user changes reversed, cause I do not want an edit war, and I placed the information is official. Greetings, I hope your answer.Jaam0121 (talk) 14:23, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Good faith effort to resolve long term admin conduct issues
Hi DangerousPanda. As I mentioned on Jehochman's talk page here I have concerns about your fitness for adminship because of your demeanor when interacting with other editors and in some cases, your judgment when using your admin privileges. As you know, similar concerns about temperament and civility were raised in your RfAs.
I think you do a lot of good work here, but your interpersonal skills need a lot of improvement. Your judgment is sometimes questionable, and you sometimes act in haste.
I would like to discuss these concerns directly with you, without distracting comments from other users. My hope is that you will acknowledge that these conduct issue are problematic as a whole, and that you will undertake to change them.
There are areas where I believe your conduct fall shorts of what the WP:ADMIN policy requires of admins. If these were occasional lapses they could easily be overlooked, but they seem to form a pattern.
Relevant WP:ADMIN policy excerpts
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- Examples of incivility, rudeness and disrespect
Context provided in the diffs. This is a short list of comments from the past year.
- “I'm sure something could be worked out if The ed shuts the fuck up, or at least tones down the disgusting rhetoric”
- “for the hard of hearing”
- “You need to screw off with the suggestion that I'm trying to make him "knuckle under" and the "gosh darn it, you are going to make Barney behave" bullshit.”
- “so seriously, screw off with that bullshit.”
- “That's the most ridiculous paragraph ever written in the English language.”
- “Who says I'm going to handle anything? Jumping off into bizarre conclusions, aren't you? You would have been better off discussing this like an adult with me before coming here, rather than attacking and making random, unfounded accusations. All the best to you - I have little time for people who choose this bizarre stance”
- “WTF! Discussion belongs on article talkpage, not here - spamming links - especially to a primary source that is unacceptable doesn't belong ANYWHERE” (edit summary)
- “Go ask the closing admin” (In response to a editor's request for an RfC close review)
- Ratcheting up drama
- Poor judgment and acting in haste
- Edit warring block of Flyer22 for two reverts
- Unilaterally unblocking Eric Corbett four hours after he was blocked, with an edit summary "Consensus appears to be that although an uncivil edit-summary, it was not clearly a violation of WP:NPA". Then refusing to consider comments that were logged in the discussion following the unblock, and dismissing the concerns of several editors as "emotional". See User talk:DangerousPanda/Archive 14#Unfortunate
- Not responding well to criticism
I don't think a long list of diffs is necessary, but I'm happy to provide more if necessary. The reason I'm raising this and the reason that I endorsed NE Ent's RfC/U is because of the visceral reaction I have whenever I see your signature on a noticeboard or user talk page. I cringe at the thought that someone has just been talked down to, cussed out, taken to school, or otherwise subjected to rudeness or hostility.
I don't think I have personal issue with you. I'm torn to some degree because on one hand, your decisiveness and no-nonsense approach can be an asset to the project if tempered with restraint, self-reflection and patience. On the other hand, if, when I fist started editing here, I had been treated the way I have seen you treat other editors, I would have quietly walked away and never looked back.
Again, my hope is that you will consider what I have said, change your approach, and put this kind of non-admin-like conduct behind you. The ball is in your court.- MrX 00:32, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
- @MrX:, I appreciate the calm, polite elements above. Some of the above is going to be difficult to address, based in part on it being "opinion" of one or many people when just as many people have the opposite opinion. Obviously, those kinds of things will always be difficult to "resolve". A great many are also pulled completely out-of-context, while others have indeed already been resolved. One of the apparently ironic things: when wrongly accused of being uncivil, it appears I often become uncivil :-) That's probably a cultural reaction more than anything, but yes, one to be curbed. More to come after I have had some time to review and reflect. the panda ₯’ 11:38, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Responses
MrX, I'm going to take these 1 at a time as they take extensive research in some cases. In some ways, these answer may appear to be justification, but that's not the intent - I'm trying to explain because you're right, if people don't know what's going through my mind, they often make up their own stuff :-) the panda ₯’ 13:40, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
- The "I'm sure something could be worked out" comment: Yeah, I lost it on my colleague admin - but you already know why, I believe, and my colleagues know better than to do what happened in he first place (that said, someone else's incivility never excuses my own...usually). In case you didn't read the details, as has already been expressed, I changed usernames for privacy reasons - some user of another website "distantly related" to Wikipedia actually phoned my house. In The ed's original post, he re-used that same username TWICE, which possibly put my family at risk again. He also had made tremendously inappropriate comments, included massive WP:ABF, and escalated what could have been an easily resolved situation - and that was detrimental to the other user's well-being. As you have seen, The ed later redacted and apologized for doing so, and recognized that his statements needlessly escalated the entire thing. Did I respond well? No - but I take possible threats to my family very seriously, and I'm certain you can understand. Will I endeavour to say "meh" when people do that in the future? I'll try - but if I perceive a threat, I will act to quash any threat.
- The "You need to screw off with the suggestion" comment:
- The "so seriously" comment:
- The "That's the most ridiculous paragraph" comment:
- The "Who says I'm going to handle anything" comment:
- The "WTF! Discussion belongs on article talkpage, not here" comment:
- The "Go ask the closing admin"comment:
- Ratcheting up drama 1:
- Ratcheting up drama 2:
- Ratcheting up drama 3:
- Ratcheting up drama 4:
- Flyer 22:
- Eric Corbett:
- The "That one's even more false" comment:
- Hi DP. I really appreciate your willingness to dialog. I posted some examples of comments and conduct that I quickly gleaned from the past few months. My intention was not for you to have to defend or explain each one, but to recognize that these incidents are not rare, and in fact they are quite common. To put it another way: the overall admin fitness issue that I raised will not be resolved by you defending each of these examples. May I propose that instead we discuss your conduct at a high level, and introduce examples and explanations only as necessary?
- My view, and the view of the community as expressed in policy, is that admins need to be cool headed almost all of the time, even when provoked. It's understandable that many people blow their tops occasionally. The concern is that these outbursts, taken in consideration with the sometimes sarcastic, condescending, and authoritarian tone that you frequently use, leaves one wondering if you're not operating in a near-constant stress mode. - MrX 14:38, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
- @MrX: You put some odd examples then ... sometimes in odd orders too! But they do, in some cases help establish something else. ArbComm has, for example, essentially stated that "baiting" is unacceptable behaviour. No editor - admin, IP, named account - can bait another party with impunity. For example, we CANNOT ever put ourselves into someone's head and ascribe meaning to their actions. So, if editor A says to editor B "you did this because you were thinking XYZ!", and editor B says "um, no...guaranteed, no", then it is wholly inappropriate for editor A to continue baiting editor B with that same or similar statements.
- I'm aware that "perception" takes over, and the written word has its challenges. However, we as a community of interest has to take WP:AGF at face value, and thus value the statements of our editing colleagues. A further extension of this is treating people like adults. Hell, I'm in my mid-30's, there NO need to tell me to stay away from something if it's blatantly obvious that I should stay away from something. Respect is a 2-way street, as is civility. You cannot poke and poke and poke and then be shocked when you get an actual human response from anybody.
- Am I saying that in most of the cases you provided above I was provoked? In these cases above, yes. Is it that way in all cases? Admittedly and absolutely, no. Can I say for certain that someone has got angry a number of times on Wikipedia because they either misread my comments, or ascribed their own meaning to it? Yes. In most cases, after a quick clarification between 2 editors, everything went well - I'm a pretty approachable guy as long as someone approaches me with a willingness to AGF.
- Try as anyone might, we can never make our words so bulletproof that someone won't misread them. I make a living with the written word, and obviously I still don't always get my point across correctly. There is always going to be some form of interpretation/filtering, and it's not intentional by any of us. If we are, indeed, an AGF-community, then if someone misreads my comment, and I explain/correct it ... then we're all REQUIRED to AGF that that was indeed what was meant. I am human. We're all human. We have backgrounds, histories, differing levels of education, various levels of English grammar. Because of the variances of the human condition, we have no choice but to AGF if we're going to act as a community. I can only think of twice in all my years here where I ever intended to insult or condescend (there, I admitted it).
- Twice.
- Period.
- Above all, the one thing that people know about me here is I don't bullshit about what I mean. Period. If I say "look, I never intended to insult you", then it means I never intended what I typed to come across as an insult, and I'm honestly sorry if it did. It means nothing else, and you can take my statement to the bank.
- Now, if you'll excuse me for a bit, we have a bit of a serious incident in the heart of my city, and since I still carry Kevlar, a Camera, and a Notepad, I have a few things to do the panda ₯’ 15:45, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
User:Kkm010 at ANI again
Hello DP. You participated in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive859#Edit-warring to add original research... earlier this month.
See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#More WP:OR immediately following a block. Upon checking the editor's talk page (in a version before he blanked it) I noticed you'd issued a previous block:
I'm almost at the point of thinking that a further block of User:Kkm010 would be allowed per normal admin discretion, based on his continuing to make edits of the kind that led to the first block. An example of the continued behavior is this edit at ZTE, dated October 18. That edit adds mention of what he claims to be an Annual Report, which is simply this 'printout' of financial data sourced only to Google. Perhaps you would feel like commenting in the new ANI thread. I'm wondering if an indef is justified pending a promise for him to clean up his act. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 02:28, 22 October 2014 (UTC)