Comments relating to unblock request |
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# To ask to be unblocked so that you can continue with the edit-warring to impose your version of the article is extremely unlikely to get you unblocked. In fact, continuing to show that your purpose here is to impose your preferred point of view on an article, against consensus, far from being likely to get you unblocked, is likely to lead to an indefinite block. |
# To ask to be unblocked so that you can continue with the edit-warring to impose your version of the article is extremely unlikely to get you unblocked. In fact, continuing to show that your purpose here is to impose your preferred point of view on an article, against consensus, far from being likely to get you unblocked, is likely to lead to an indefinite block. |
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# Can you clarify what you mean by editing "with a work account"? Do you mean you have two accounts, one of which you use at work? Do you mean that the place where you work has a shared account? Either way, can you please tell us what the account's username is? <small>''The editor who uses the pseudonym''</small> "[[User:JamesBWatson|JamesBWatson]]" ([[User talk:JamesBWatson#top|talk]]) 10:20, 6 November 2015 (UTC) |
# Can you clarify what you mean by editing "with a work account"? Do you mean you have two accounts, one of which you use at work? Do you mean that the place where you work has a shared account? Either way, can you please tell us what the account's username is? <small>''The editor who uses the pseudonym''</small> "[[User:JamesBWatson|JamesBWatson]]" ([[User talk:JamesBWatson#top|talk]]) 10:20, 6 November 2015 (UTC) |
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:To clarify my end, I mean that I edited the TLS page with an account that is no longer active because it was not linked to my current personal email address. After that account went away, I created this account with my current personal email. You can understand why I'm hesitant now to trust Wikipedia administrators and give out more info. You almost sound like you're bullying me. |
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:Just to clarify your end, are you saying that Gay Star is a mainstream publication that provides neutral commentary about spiritual leaders promoting chastity? [[User:Cr7777777|Cr7777777]] ([[User talk:Cr7777777#top|talk]]) 13:58, 6 November 2015 (UTC) |
Revision as of 13:59, 6 November 2015
This Wikipedia entry is slander: "He has been outspoken on the threat posed to Christianity by ... those seeking equal rights for those that are gay."
In fact, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuals "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided." (Point 2358 http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm)
This slander against Cardinal Sarah should be replaced with an unbiased description, such as "He has been outspoken on the threat posed to Christianity by ... those redefining marriage."
- CATHOLIC PERSPECTIVE: "He has been outspoken on the threat posed to Christianity by ... those destroying real marriage."
- UNBIASED: "He has been outspoken on the threat posed to Christianity by ... those redefining marriage."
- ANTI-CATHOLIC PERSPECTIVE: "He has been outspoken on the threat posed to Christianity by ... those seeking equal rights for those that are gay."
- The use of the term "threat" suggests serious bias. And even Sarah hasn't claimed the threat is posed to Christianity but rather tha family. Contaldo80 (talk) 14:25, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
- OK, How do we fix this page?
Cr7777777, you are invited on a Wikipedia Adventure!
October 2015
Hello, I'm Materialscientist. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Robert Sarah because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Materialscientist (talk) 00:33, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
Please do not add commentary or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles. Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Thank you. Materialscientist (talk) 00:47, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
November 2015
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, as you did at Robert Sarah, you may be blocked from editing. GABHello! 01:52, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- Please stop misrepresenting Cardinal Sarah's position. The projection of your opinion into the cardinal's description amounts to slander.Cr7777777 (talk) 02:24, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- "Slander" isn't really a term we use on wikipedia. If there is certain wiki guidance that hasn't been followed then more helpful to highlight that. Contaldo80 (talk) 08:51, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- This Wikipedia entry misrepresents Cardinal Sarah's position: "He is also a critic of... growth of LGBT rights" The term "growth of LGBT rights" is not used by Cardinal Sarah, but is projected by the editor. This misrepresentation betrays a bias that violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and amounts to slander. I corrected the misrepresentation by replacing it with the Cardinal Sarah's direct quote in question, and provided a source.
- It is also worth noting that editor who insists on rephrasing the cardinal's words admits to not understanding the quote to begin with.
- Please note that you have now been referred to the Administrator's noticeboard for violating the 3:RR rule. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring Contaldo80 (talk) 15:09, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- Writing an article about a person from a neutral point of view does not mean writing it to reflect the view that that person would prefer, as you seem to think.
- Adding the words "LGBT's deconstruction of marriage and attack on chastity" to an article is a not writing from a neutral point of view: it is promoting an opinion, and a highly contentious one at that.
- I suggest you check what the United States law on slander actually says before accusing other editors of infringing that law.
- Wikipedia works by collaboration, and when editors disagree they should try to seek consensus by discussion, not try to force their own preferred version through. Simply repeating your preferred edits over and over again in the face of other editors reverting them, known as "edit-warring", is regarded as disruptive, and if continued can lead to being blocked from editing, to prevent further disruption. You may like to read Wikipedia's edit-warring policy. In particular, please note that being convinced that you are right does not grant exemption from that policy. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 17:18, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- When an article is describing a person's point of view, using the person's actual words is appropriate, especially when the meaning of the words is contested. Rewording the speaker's quote in a contentious way by someone who admittedly does not understand the quote is clearly inappropriate.
- As I suggested in the talk pages, rather than using the words "LGBT's deconstruction of marriage and attack on chastity" or the words "He is also a critic of... growth of LGBT rights" (which is a biased misrepresentation), the most neutral point of view in describing the cardinal's position would be to use his own words.
- I used "slander" in the general sense of making false and damaging statements about someone.
- Regarding Wikipedia's edit-warring policy, it should also be noted that Ezium23 and Mean as custard had also attributed the direct quote before Contaldo80 repeatedly modified it with his own wording.
Cr7777777 (talk) 18:01, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- Presenting a person's views in their own words is not presenting them from an unbiased or neutral point of view: it is presenting them from that person's point of view. Very often, people's own presentation of themselves is heavily biased, especially in the case of people who express contentious and controversial points of view. Wikipedia does not exist in order to publicise people's own way of viewing themselves: that is what people's own web sites, Facebook pages, etc etc are for. Wikipedia policy is that we present them as they are shown in most reliable third party, independent sources. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 20:25, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- The Wikipedia sentence in question is attempting to describe the position Cardinal Sarah staked out in his speech at the recent Synod. The most neutral way to inform readers of Cardinal Sarah's position is to quote him directly on the matter. A biased editor should not reword the cardinal's quote in a contentious way that misrepresents the cardinal's view. Cr7777777 (talk) 20:55, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- Why don't you set out here nice and clearly what a "western homosexual ideology" is. Assume a reader doesn't know what this term means - what do you understand by it? Here's your chance to enlighten us. If Sarah's comments are so easy to understand then the task shouldn't be hard. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:28, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
- Why don't you set out here nice and clearly what a "western homosexual ideology" is. Assume a reader doesn't know what this term means - what do you understand by it? Here's your chance to enlighten us. If Sarah's comments are so easy to understand then the task shouldn't be hard. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:28, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
- The Wikipedia sentence in question is attempting to describe the position Cardinal Sarah staked out in his speech at the recent Synod. The most neutral way to inform readers of Cardinal Sarah's position is to quote him directly on the matter. A biased editor should not reword the cardinal's quote in a contentious way that misrepresents the cardinal's view. Cr7777777 (talk) 20:55, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- Presenting a person's views in their own words is not presenting them from an unbiased or neutral point of view: it is presenting them from that person's point of view. Very often, people's own presentation of themselves is heavily biased, especially in the case of people who express contentious and controversial points of view. Wikipedia does not exist in order to publicise people's own way of viewing themselves: that is what people's own web sites, Facebook pages, etc etc are for. Wikipedia policy is that we present them as they are shown in most reliable third party, independent sources. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 20:25, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- Nutshell
In a nutshell, Cardinal Sarah is critical of the threats to family and chastity.
Your words that Cardinal Sarah "is also a critic of ... the growth of LGBT rights" is a biased misrepresentation. In fact, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuals "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided." (Point 2358 http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm)
- Summary and Full Text
If you want a translation of original text along with a short summary of the remarks, see here: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-sarahs-intervention-isis-and-gender-ideology-are-like-apocalyptic-/
- In Depth / Background
If you want an in depth understanding of the cardinal's remarks, familiarize yourself with the Catholic Catechism found here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM Cr7777777 (talk) 14:28, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Talkback
Message added 15:49, 2 November 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
GABHello! 15:49, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
- I don't know whether I will be able to explain this point in a way that you will understand, since you seem to have failed to understand it in the past, but I will try. An "unbiased" account of a person's position does not mean "an account which reflects the view that person wishes to convey": that is an account which is biased towards that person's preferred view. Wikipedia's policy is to convey accounts in accordance with what mainstream independent sources say. If you disagree with that policy, you are free to propose that we change it, so that instead Wikipedia will in future serve as a medium for publicising the views that people wish to have publicised about themselves. That will, of course, radically change the whole nature of Wikipedia. Unless and until the policy is changed, however, your attempts to get Wikipedia to reflect Robert Sarah's own view of what he does is contrary to Wikipedia policy. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:17, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:37, 5 November 2015 (UTC) Cr7777777 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
First, I have not edited anything but the talk page since I've been warned. Second, I am always logged in before editing. The couple of times that I hit save before adding my signature, I followed up within a minute or two by adding my signature. Finally, what are you talking about using a proxy server? I always go directly to Wikipedia. Cr7777777 (talk) 01:37, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Regardless of our sockpuppetry policy regarding multiple accounts, you appear to have a highly vested, single-purpose intention of advancing a single point of view on Robert Sarah that has persisted for several weeks. We're mainly looking for reassurance that you understand our various policies and guidelines, including those related to edit warring and neutral point of view. --slakr\ talk / 03:13, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Cr7777777 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
The sockpuppetry accusation was false.
I'm not sure where the "highly vested" accusation comes from but I now see accusations need no merit here! The only other edit I ever made to Wikipedia in the past was to the TLS page with a work account.
Finally the real reason comes out that I am being blocked because I am attempting to weed out an edit-warrior's poitical commentary from an article.
Please unblock so I can help to restore the Robert Sarah page to a neutral point of view.
Cr7777777 (talk) 05:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC)Notes:
- In some cases, you may not in fact be blocked, or your block has already expired. Please check the list of active blocks. If no block is listed, then you have been autoblocked by the automated anti-vandalism systems. Please remove this request and follow these instructions instead for quick attention by an administrator.
- Please read our guide to appealing blocks to make sure that your unblock request will help your case. You may change your request at any time.
If you ask the blocking administrator to comment on this request, replace this template with the following, replacing "blocking administrator" with the name of the blocking admin:
{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2= The accusation that I made edits after being warned was false. The sockpuppetry accusation was false. I'm not sure where the "highly vested" accusation comes from but I now see accusations need no merit here! The only other edit I ever made to Wikipedia in the past was to the TLS page with a work account. Finally the real reason comes out that I am being blocked because I am attempting to weed out an edit-warrior's poitical commentary from an article. Please unblock so I can help to restore the Robert Sarah page to a neutral point of view. [[User:Cr7777777|Cr7777777]] ([[User talk:Cr7777777#top|talk]]) 05:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC) |3 = ~~~~}}
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{{unblock reviewed |1= The accusation that I made edits after being warned was false. The sockpuppetry accusation was false. I'm not sure where the "highly vested" accusation comes from but I now see accusations need no merit here! The only other edit I ever made to Wikipedia in the past was to the TLS page with a work account. Finally the real reason comes out that I am being blocked because I am attempting to weed out an edit-warrior's poitical commentary from an article. Please unblock so I can help to restore the Robert Sarah page to a neutral point of view. [[User:Cr7777777|Cr7777777]] ([[User talk:Cr7777777#top|talk]]) 05:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC) |decline = {{subst:Decline reason here}} ~~~~}}
If you accept the unblock request, replace this template with the following, substituting Accept reason here
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{{unblock reviewed |1= The accusation that I made edits after being warned was false. The sockpuppetry accusation was false. I'm not sure where the "highly vested" accusation comes from but I now see accusations need no merit here! The only other edit I ever made to Wikipedia in the past was to the TLS page with a work account. Finally the real reason comes out that I am being blocked because I am attempting to weed out an edit-warrior's poitical commentary from an article. Please unblock so I can help to restore the Robert Sarah page to a neutral point of view. [[User:Cr7777777|Cr7777777]] ([[User talk:Cr7777777#top|talk]]) 05:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}
- You were edit-warring: you were warned that continuing to do so would lead to being blocked. You then stopped editing the article, and someone starts editing it without logging into an account, using a proxy server. That person posts content to the article pushing the same view as you were pushing. In the five years that the article has existed, nobody has pushed the same point before, as far as I can see. Funny coincidence that someone should start doing so immediately after you were warned about a likely block. Funny that he or she used a proxy server to do so. The probability that this would happen by chance is negligible.
- A word of advice: in the nearly five and a half years that I have been a Wikipedia administrator, I doubt that I have ever seen an unblock request succeed which accuses the blocking administrator of secretly blocking for a different reason than stated. You may therefore like to consider editing the unblock request to remove that: it's up to you.
- To ask to be unblocked so that you can continue with the edit-warring to impose your version of the article is extremely unlikely to get you unblocked. In fact, continuing to show that your purpose here is to impose your preferred point of view on an article, against consensus, far from being likely to get you unblocked, is likely to lead to an indefinite block.
- Can you clarify what you mean by editing "with a work account"? Do you mean you have two accounts, one of which you use at work? Do you mean that the place where you work has a shared account? Either way, can you please tell us what the account's username is? The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:20, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
- To clarify my end, I mean that I edited the TLS page with an account that is no longer active because it was not linked to my current personal email address. After that account went away, I created this account with my current personal email. You can understand why I'm hesitant now to trust Wikipedia administrators and give out more info. You almost sound like you're bullying me.
- Just to clarify your end, are you saying that Gay Star is a mainstream publication that provides neutral commentary about spiritual leaders promoting chastity? Cr7777777 (talk) 13:58, 6 November 2015 (UTC)