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Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in the [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F5|criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 03:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC) |
Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in the [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F5|criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 03:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC) |
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== Userspace page in violation?? == |
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Your recent edit to your userspace might be in violation of either your TBAN or POLEMIC and should be removed. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup><font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font></sup> 17:08, 4 May 2016 (UTC) |
Revision as of 17:08, 4 May 2016
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Notes
Balady citron, New Jewish Cemetery, Kraków, Moshe Zvi Segal, Abraham Sternhartz, Eliyahu Chaim Rosen, Shlomo Yosef Zevin
Happy Chanukah Chesdovi!
File:Joseph H. Hertz.JPG
Arbitration Enforcement Action
The following is the close of the AE discussion that you can find here
- Chesdovi is topic banned from Zionism (broadly construed) and Western Wall or adding references to Palestine or Palestinians in articles that do not contain them. I have left out categories as they should be covered by the Zionism tban. Chesdovi is cautioned that high volumes of repetitive edits in sensitive areas that case disruption are to be avoided. Further controversy over such edits will result in long blocks.
If you have any questions about what this means, please feel free to ask. Spartaz Humbug! 12:11, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
- I have been asked on my talkpage to confirm whether this replaces the previous ban. The answer is no, that ban also remains effective. Spartaz Humbug! 17:53, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
- Your most recent edits, specifically to Balady citron and Palestinian minhag seem to be in violation of your ban. You might want to reconsider your focus. Sir Joseph (talk) 03:20, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- If they are not a violation, then they well should have been, IMHO. Debresser (talk) 10:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- IMHO editors entrenched on another side of the dispute are not well placed to read the nuances of a restriction and should leave that to admins who are not involved. If I were to lool for further sanctions my next step would be an IBAN between Sir Joseph and Chesdovi. Unless this is something both parties relish, I'd suggest you left it for others to monitor/enforce. Spartaz Humbug! 12:19, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- If they are not a violation, then they well should have been, IMHO. Debresser (talk) 10:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Spartaz, by "adding references to Palestine or Palestinians in articles that do not contain them" I presume you mean articles that do not at present contain them? For instance, during the AE SJ removed the P word from here. I did not pursue this during AE, and now feel slightly miffed that this uncalled for removal be allowed to stand unchecked. I had also added text here which SJ removed. I presume as the reference contains the P word, it can now not be re-added? Chesdovi (talk) 11:52, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- If you and Sir J are going to be edit warring over removing and restoring the word then I see bad things in both your futures. The general restriction is adding the word to a page that does not contain it. If the word is not part of a long term stable version of the page then you must leave it. If it was part of a long term stable version then a talk page consensus is required but I wouldn't like you to be the one forcing that through. I drafted that way to leave you able to edit articles already containing the word without fear of an accidental vio, not to narow the scope of the disruption to pages where you added it, had it it removed and were looking for an excuse to still argue about it. That said, there seems to be a lot of head butting between you and Sir Joseph. If it looks like they are going through your edits and removing the word to bait or taunt you then I will be very grumpy about that. Spartaz Humbug! 12:19, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Firstly, I don't think requiring sources or removing a weasel word is edit warring. In one of his diffs he pointed out above, I removed the word Palestine from the Textile article because the sentence before mentioned that Safed was in the Ottoman Empire. Therefore, to be neutral, and as matter of style, it did not require that his Palestine word be included. You should look at all his past edits, he has created or tried to create articles merely for the insertion of the word Palestine and that is disruptive. Nobody calls it Palestinian Minhag and indeed, Chesdovi himself inserted the translation as "Minhag Eretz Israel" and that is what it is called in common every day language and that is why I wrote the article name should be changed. It can be mentioned, if sourced where the origins lie. I try to use the talk page, but I often get no response. His most recent article Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem I tried to collaborate with him, but I am the only one posting there and many of the edits are unsourced or the source doesn't say that the person is a Chief Rabbi. I have no problem editing with him, but as Debresser can tell you more history, it is when he is entrenched and edits in a disruptive manner. That is why I asked here if it's a violation, and I didn't go to AE again. He needs to temper his editing and we'll all get along fine. Sir Joseph (talk) 13:17, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- And wouldn't requesting a page move from Balady Citron to Palestinian Citron be a violation of the TBAN, especially considering that the common name is Balady Citron? I think you do need to warn him to ease up on the editing of this area. Sir Joseph (talk) 13:47, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Is the P word already in the page? if so, no its not a violation. If the answer is no, then it is. Spartaz Humbug! 14:09, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- The word P is in the page as in, the Balady Citron is grown in Israel and Palestine. Chesdovi wants to rename the entire page from Balady Citron to Palestinian Citron. Sir Joseph (talk) 14:17, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Then its not covered but an RM should be used to get consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 14:33, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- chesdovi, you should not be striking out other user's comments or references. You may comment on the ref but it's poor form to edit as if I were striking out my refs. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:43, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Unstrike them then - I only did it to make it clearer what we are working with. Wikipedia itself can not be used as RS. Those refs should be removed. Also, please add quotations when adding sources. It terribly unhelpful to expect other editors to trawl through them all individually. Chesdovi (talk) 16:55, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- I think they are valid. This is not used for RS purposes but what an article title should be called and as such we should be using what is used in common day and Wikipedia is a valid source for that. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Unstrike them then - I only did it to make it clearer what we are working with. Wikipedia itself can not be used as RS. Those refs should be removed. Also, please add quotations when adding sources. It terribly unhelpful to expect other editors to trawl through them all individually. Chesdovi (talk) 16:55, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- chesdovi, you should not be striking out other user's comments or references. You may comment on the ref but it's poor form to edit as if I were striking out my refs. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:43, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Then its not covered but an RM should be used to get consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 14:33, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- The word P is in the page as in, the Balady Citron is grown in Israel and Palestine. Chesdovi wants to rename the entire page from Balady Citron to Palestinian Citron. Sir Joseph (talk) 14:17, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Is the P word already in the page? if so, no its not a violation. If the answer is no, then it is. Spartaz Humbug! 14:09, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- And wouldn't requesting a page move from Balady Citron to Palestinian Citron be a violation of the TBAN, especially considering that the common name is Balady Citron? I think you do need to warn him to ease up on the editing of this area. Sir Joseph (talk) 13:47, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Firstly, I don't think requiring sources or removing a weasel word is edit warring. In one of his diffs he pointed out above, I removed the word Palestine from the Textile article because the sentence before mentioned that Safed was in the Ottoman Empire. Therefore, to be neutral, and as matter of style, it did not require that his Palestine word be included. You should look at all his past edits, he has created or tried to create articles merely for the insertion of the word Palestine and that is disruptive. Nobody calls it Palestinian Minhag and indeed, Chesdovi himself inserted the translation as "Minhag Eretz Israel" and that is what it is called in common every day language and that is why I wrote the article name should be changed. It can be mentioned, if sourced where the origins lie. I try to use the talk page, but I often get no response. His most recent article Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem I tried to collaborate with him, but I am the only one posting there and many of the edits are unsourced or the source doesn't say that the person is a Chief Rabbi. I have no problem editing with him, but as Debresser can tell you more history, it is when he is entrenched and edits in a disruptive manner. That is why I asked here if it's a violation, and I didn't go to AE again. He needs to temper his editing and we'll all get along fine. Sir Joseph (talk) 13:17, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Spartaz, am I allowed to create new pages with the P word? I have been working on documenting Britain's favourite kiddush wine, Palwin and would hate to see it literally poured down the drain... Chesdovi (talk) 13:34, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Creating new pages is not covered by the topic ban (Unless its a fork). Spartaz Humbug! 14:08, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Which it most likely is, since Palwin is part of Carmel Winery. Sir Joseph (talk) 14:19, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Best leave it then. Spartaz Humbug! 14:33, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- I suppose I better had Afd Sabra liqueur then. Chesdovi (talk) 14:44, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- You know very well that's not what Spartaz meant and this is the same type of battleground editing we are used to from you. This is why you were told to ease up for a bit. Sir Joseph (talk) 14:54, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- I suppose I better had Afd Sabra liqueur then. Chesdovi (talk) 14:44, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Best leave it then. Spartaz Humbug! 14:33, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Which it most likely is, since Palwin is part of Carmel Winery. Sir Joseph (talk) 14:19, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Creating new pages is not covered by the topic ban (Unless its a fork). Spartaz Humbug! 14:08, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
you can always submit through AFC. Spartaz just meant that it's best that you don't submit the new article. (You might want to use AFC in the future. It's a great way to have a neutral eye, and it will make sure you don't have too much POV in the article before creation.) Sir Joseph (talk) 15:41, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
We already see here two things that are not covered by the addition to topic ban regarding the word "Palestine": 1. Chesdovi can lobby for renaming to "Palestine" 2. Chesdovi can lobby for addition of the word "Palestine" as long as he doesn't make the edit himself. Note that he can also add it any number of times once it is in the article at least once. I was unhappy with the weak formulation from the beginning, and it didn't take even a week to see why: Chesdovi can continue pushing his POV almost as before, with just the most minor restriction. I call for making the restriction a bit stronger: that Chesdovi can not add the word Palestine, or lobby for its addition. Debresser (talk) 19:06, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- who is this directed at? If it's me than use my talkpage. Spartaz Humbug! 21:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Debresser, Chesdovi's recent edit to the Yishuv Hayashan template seem to violate the tban. I don't want to file an AE request, but you may if you feel like it. I have asked him to self-revert, but adding Palestinian Wine to the template seems to me not an exception to the TBAN, as per what Spartaz wrote above. Sir Joseph (talk) 13:38, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- Spartaz, I am a little disconcerted as to why indeed the modified ban included Palestine all together. As I recall, since January, I added the word "Palestinian" to a grand total of 4 pages: Abba of Jaffa, Avdimi of Haifa, Balady citron and Rav Tachlifa. Avdimi of Haifa and Abba of Jaffa were both created by myself and originally included the demonym "Palestinian" but were removed by Debresser (this despite the fact Palestinian rabbis was kept at Afd in 2011 and should ahve allowed for such personalities to be referred to as "Palestinian".) I did not revert. Balady citron also had included the word in Hebrew since Nov 2008. I added the English translation in May 2013 but it was removed by an IP in March 2015. When I readded it in March 2016 Jeppiz reverted claiming my edit was a TB violation. It was not. But neither did I revert. Tachlifa of the West had been know as Tachlifa the Palestinian for over 4 years and was moved unilaterally by Sir Joseph. I reverted the page name once. I do not clearly see where I went wrong regarding Palestine. Chesdovi (talk) 21:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- You are in violation of your TBAN with your recent edit to the Yishuv Hayashan template. You are not allowed to add Palestine or Palestinian to articles. Please revert or you may be reported. Sir Joseph (talk) 13:34, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- Another protracted edit war over the addition of "Palestinian"... WP:AE was much too lenient in this case. Debresser (talk) 20:31, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- Feel free to report to AE. He has edited Wiki and saw this notice. Spartaz told him that he is under watch, but I don't want to be the one to bring to AE. I do think the next time he goes to AE it won't end as well. I have told him to not risk it and self-revert but so far he has failed to do so. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:41, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- Another protracted edit war over the addition of "Palestinian"... WP:AE was much too lenient in this case. Debresser (talk) 20:31, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
DYK for Jewish textile industry in 16th-century Safed
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:53, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
April 2016
Per User_talk:Debresser#April_2016 please be warned that your behavior will get you blocked soon enough, if not for violating WP:ARBPIA restrictions, then for intolerable behavior towards your fellow editors. Debresser (talk) 00:37, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Balady Citron
I would give it an hour or so as I will be blanket reverting the IP for now. The IP is a current vandal (if you look at history) likely a sock of the one who was blocked and rev-del by Black Kite earlier, who has been making personal attacks across the israel/palestine area. I have requested semi page protection so when thats in, it should settle down. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:19, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. —Cryptic 03:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Userspace page in violation??
Your recent edit to your userspace might be in violation of either your TBAN or POLEMIC and should be removed. Sir Joseph (talk) 17:08, 4 May 2016 (UTC)