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:::::::::::We don't get that specific in a lead. We don't say that [[Langston Hughes]] was an African American, or that anyone was an American of xyz descent. It's that simple. Sorry Ceoil for messing up your page. [[User:Truthkeeper88|Truthkeeper]] ([[User talk:Truthkeeper88|talk]]) 21:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC) |
:::::::::::We don't get that specific in a lead. We don't say that [[Langston Hughes]] was an African American, or that anyone was an American of xyz descent. It's that simple. Sorry Ceoil for messing up your page. [[User:Truthkeeper88|Truthkeeper]] ([[User talk:Truthkeeper88|talk]]) 21:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::::Jon, you have left the strong impression that you are circular and maybe a bit thick. Thanks for the offer of a collab, but im fine just now thanks. 21:58, 25 September 2011 (UTC) |
:::::::::::::Jon, you have left the strong impression that you are circular and maybe a bit thick. Thanks for the offer of a collab, but im fine just now thanks. 21:58, 25 September 2011 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::::Well, in the absence of discussion, looks like we're going to have a slo-mo edit war on the cards. Tomorrow I'm going to change the lead to "British" with a bunch o' sources. Just a heads up so you can blindly revert in a timely fashion. [[User:Jonchapple|<font color="#004225">JonC</font>]][[User_talk:Jonchapple|<sup><font color="#F28500">Talk</font></sup>]] 22:02, 25 September 2011 (UTC) |
Revision as of 22:02, 25 September 2011
You are edit-warring and have yet to give a satisfactory reason (or indeed any reason) at all for changing the stable version of the page. Please take it to talk, and provide an an edit summary when reverting in future. JonCTalk 20:01, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I am well aware of Bacon's ancestory, and of course this is not the first time the issue has come up. But I sick to fucking death of the endless debate, which is at the end trivial, and was never an issue for Bacon himself. He considered himself Irish, and that was it. Anyway the only reason you are there is because I mentioned it when you were being a pain in the arse on the Yeats talk. Your introducion of a poor source in the opening sentence of the article apart from anything is ugly, and by the way I wrote all most all of that lead and wont have it disturbed by nationalist POV tagging. Ceoil (talk) 20:09, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you looked in the page history you'll notice I first edited the article in July, and have had in my watchlist since then, so you're wrong on that front at least. Contrary to what you may believe I'm not deliberately being a "pain in the arse". If you can provide a source that shows that Bacon considered himself Irish first and foremost then that'll be the end of it, as self-identification is the way to go if possible. But failing that Britannica is hardly a poor source, and I was in the process of adding some more in before I was interrupted with your incredibly helpful third "rv". JonCTalk 20:15, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- You using an enc to cite a enc and if you dont know why thats wrong I dont know what to say to you. David Sylvester's interviews and Martin Peppiatt's bio and monographs would be good places for you to self educate before blindly waiding in with arms waving. Ceoil (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well reference them then. You know how complicated these sorts of things can get. JonCTalk 20:25, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I do know, but don't get bogged down by it, and my whole point is that you aggrivate, cluelessly it seems, because you care about these small things. It is what it is, he was what he was. Look at the work, its far more interesting. Ceoil (talk) 20:31, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think it's getting bogged down, and I object to being told I'm aggravating just for challenging summary-less and consensus-less changes and reversions. Unfortunately he wasn't an Irishman born to Irish parents in an independent Ireland, he was an Irishman born to English parents in the UK of GB&I and is usually called British, and that's why refs are needed. Everyone cares about something on here – I'm interested in the history of "these islands" and the people that live(d) on them. I'm not purposely getting in your way. JonCTalk 20:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Actually you are. You have a view, stated vividly in the post above, and are hopping from article to article expressing it. And being a little bitch when you dont get your way. I care a lot about the Bacon and Yeats articles, I wrote most of both, but I care on substance, for their work, to me they are not just vechiles to push my nationalistic pride. Ceoil (talk) 21:02, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think it's getting bogged down, and I object to being told I'm aggravating just for challenging summary-less and consensus-less changes and reversions. Unfortunately he wasn't an Irishman born to Irish parents in an independent Ireland, he was an Irishman born to English parents in the UK of GB&I and is usually called British, and that's why refs are needed. Everyone cares about something on here – I'm interested in the history of "these islands" and the people that live(d) on them. I'm not purposely getting in your way. JonCTalk 20:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I do know, but don't get bogged down by it, and my whole point is that you aggrivate, cluelessly it seems, because you care about these small things. It is what it is, he was what he was. Look at the work, its far more interesting. Ceoil (talk) 20:31, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well reference them then. You know how complicated these sorts of things can get. JonCTalk 20:25, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If treaths are all you have. I'm just stating my openion. Live with it, or better take resp for you nationalistic editing. Ceoil (talk) 21:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- You using an enc to cite a enc and if you dont know why thats wrong I dont know what to say to you. David Sylvester's interviews and Martin Peppiatt's bio and monographs would be good places for you to self educate before blindly waiding in with arms waving. Ceoil (talk) 20:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you looked in the page history you'll notice I first edited the article in July, and have had in my watchlist since then, so you're wrong on that front at least. Contrary to what you may believe I'm not deliberately being a "pain in the arse". If you can provide a source that shows that Bacon considered himself Irish first and foremost then that'll be the end of it, as self-identification is the way to go if possible. But failing that Britannica is hardly a poor source, and I was in the process of adding some more in before I was interrupted with your incredibly helpful third "rv". JonCTalk 20:15, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, but I'm jumping here. Jonchapple, the problem is that your edits focus almost entirely on nationality, which is pushing a pov and not acceptable. I'm not happy about the edits to Yeats and not happy to see it happen to Bacon. There's no reason to do this. None at all. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- All I'm pushing for here is for the nationality of an individual from a background that's not black and white to be backed up with reliable sources. Requesting verifiability is hardly POV editing. What is the point of view I'm pushing here? JonCTalk 21:30, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Also, the "Anglo-Irish" lead is the stable version. I didn't add it in. JonCTalk 21:32, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you TK, talking to a wall is no fun. If threaths are all you have Jonchapple then i was right about you from the start. I'm as sick of you know as I was when you trampled the yeats page. Ceoil (talk) 21:28, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Threats? Where have I threatened anyone? I'm just pointing out that comments like "blind uncommented reverts are all you'll get from me" are disruptive and go against the spirit of this project. I've been completely civil to you and called a "little bitch" for my troubles. JonCTalk 21:30, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- What's disruptive is changing the Yeats page again and again to reflect what you believe your view should reflect. As I explained to you - to me Anglo means white - you replied that it's a well-known term, but in fact it's not, and this is an encyclopedia for readers from all over the world. Just live with Irish and let it be. When you bring nationality and religion into the mix, particularly in a lead, then the edits should be blindly reverted. You'll have two of us reverting blindly. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:37, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- We're talking about the Francis Bacon page now, not Yeats's. What does "When you bring nationality and religion into the mix, particularly in a lead, then the edits should be blindly reverted" mean? Nationality belongs in the lead, and I've never once tried to bring religion into anything. Very confused. JonCTalk 21:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Also, Anglo- as a prefix means "English" or "of England". "Anglo-Irish" means a descendant of the Protestant Ascendancy – an Irishman of English extraction. Colour doesn't come into it. JonCTalk 21:44, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I know your confused, thats very obvious. But please stop inflicting it on the rest of us. For example, this my talk, and you are still bitching here at me, hoping for what now at this stage? Ceoil (talk) 21:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Civility? An assumption of good faith? Perhaps even a collaborative effort to decide what do with the intro of Bacon's article? Or do you only do insults? JonCTalk 21:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- We don't get that specific in a lead. We don't say that Langston Hughes was an African American, or that anyone was an American of xyz descent. It's that simple. Sorry Ceoil for messing up your page. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Jon, you have left the strong impression that you are circular and maybe a bit thick. Thanks for the offer of a collab, but im fine just now thanks. 21:58, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- I know your confused, thats very obvious. But please stop inflicting it on the rest of us. For example, this my talk, and you are still bitching here at me, hoping for what now at this stage? Ceoil (talk) 21:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Also, Anglo- as a prefix means "English" or "of England". "Anglo-Irish" means a descendant of the Protestant Ascendancy – an Irishman of English extraction. Colour doesn't come into it. JonCTalk 21:44, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- We're talking about the Francis Bacon page now, not Yeats's. What does "When you bring nationality and religion into the mix, particularly in a lead, then the edits should be blindly reverted" mean? Nationality belongs in the lead, and I've never once tried to bring religion into anything. Very confused. JonCTalk 21:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- What's disruptive is changing the Yeats page again and again to reflect what you believe your view should reflect. As I explained to you - to me Anglo means white - you replied that it's a well-known term, but in fact it's not, and this is an encyclopedia for readers from all over the world. Just live with Irish and let it be. When you bring nationality and religion into the mix, particularly in a lead, then the edits should be blindly reverted. You'll have two of us reverting blindly. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:37, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Threats? Where have I threatened anyone? I'm just pointing out that comments like "blind uncommented reverts are all you'll get from me" are disruptive and go against the spirit of this project. I've been completely civil to you and called a "little bitch" for my troubles. JonCTalk 21:30, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you TK, talking to a wall is no fun. If threaths are all you have Jonchapple then i was right about you from the start. I'm as sick of you know as I was when you trampled the yeats page. Ceoil (talk) 21:28, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
- Also, the "Anglo-Irish" lead is the stable version. I didn't add it in. JonCTalk 21:32, 25 September 2011 (UTC)