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====SPECIFICO==== |
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*{{u|SPECIFICO}} If you believe further action is required feel free to file an AE request. <b>[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]</b> ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 00:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC) |
*{{u|SPECIFICO}} If you believe further action is required feel free to file an AE request. <b>[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]</b> ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 00:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC) |
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::I hate to think it's come down to that. I have neither the time nor the interest in compiling diffs, writing an essay about the situation, or fingering any individuals. Frankly, I was hoping that, with DS, we'd get some law and order without the drama and effort of an AE or ANI approach. If AE must be the "next step," it's not one that I will be able to do anything about. Thanks for the note. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 00:58, 13 March 2015 (UTC) |
::I hate to think it's come down to that. I have neither the time nor the interest in compiling diffs, writing an essay about the situation, or fingering any individuals. Frankly, I was hoping that, with DS, we'd get some law and order without the drama and effort of an AE or ANI approach. If AE must be the "next step," it's not one that I will be able to do anything about. Thanks for the note. [[User:SPECIFICO |<font color ="0011FF"> '''SPECIFICO'''</font>]][[User_talk:SPECIFICO | ''talk'']] 00:58, 13 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:::I haven't seen enough, on my own, which would warrant anything further than the warning I've given. However I'm not looking at a list of dates diff with explanation I'm working from memory and my opinion of Atsme's conduct (which overall I haven't had a problem with). <b>[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]</b> ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 01:20, 13 March 2015 (UTC) |
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====Roxy the dog==== |
====Roxy the dog==== |
Revision as of 01:21, 13 March 2015
Sanction review
As the closing admin, I'd like you to review the topic ban placed on me with this being the appeal of ending it. As per the close, [1], I was not entirely wrong. The word "major" was added due to one of the sources I reviewed (and is also only being kept out due to lack of consensus, I think I had a right to share my deductions in forming that consensus) but most of issues were due to my opposing of blanking the term "victory" in which I was not wrong. As far as the other things such as casting aspirations go, it was recognized in the AE that all of them were not wrong rather I had recently faced enough to get to the conclusions of following based on the diffs I gave then... with that said and leaving the objections aside, my main point is that I have long ended engaging OZ and have not violated my ban. As such this is topic is closed and also [2] reviewed which most probably is going in the closer's way.. I don't mind what sources are used as far as consensus is followed. Furthermore, I've also been banned for a around a month, it can be reduced for being stale as all that contention is stale and the sanction is no more preventive - plus my behaviour in other topics hasn't shown any disruption. --lTopGunl (talk) 05:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- It's not about whether you were 'right' or not but about who you went about it. However given that the use of sources was involved I can see how you made that connection. Having said that, I'm willing to accept in good faith that you realise what you did wrong and have learnt from it. However I'm not convinced that you will make good, constructive, collaborative edits to Battle of Chawinda, so I'd be willing to replace your current topic ban with a topic ban from Battle of Chawinda until the expiry date of the current TBAN (12:00, 20 March 2015 (UTC)). How does that sound? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- To be honest, I see the consensus finalizing that infobox anyway and I can live with that (the article was really not on my top priority, I just went after some old sock master who was reverting to completely opposite statements and fell into this mess). So your offer is fine by me. Thanks. --lTopGunl (talk) 06:43, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- It was not just Battle of Chawinda, but many other articles. On Operation Dwarka he continued to edit war over results and never discussed them. On Inter-Services Intelligence activities in India he edit warred over making a conspiracy theory look clean. On Operation Chengiz Khan he restored the statements that were removed a year ago because they were unsourced since 2012, and his edit summary reads "Restored consensus version.. no intermediate useful edits"[3], misleading indeed because he had never discussed them. And a few others. Even if the topic ban is limited to Battle of Chawinda, I am certain that we will still have a number of unnecessary edit conflicts. Since the topic ban, TopGun has not made even 75 edits to main article space, I doubt that how he proved that he can edit without conflicting. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 06:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- WP:VOLUNTEER is all I have to say to you, I don't have the time to edit that much neither should I be expected to have to satisfy your arbitrary criteria of edit count. About the sanction, I'm not going to debate my reverts to proven socks and other disruptive editors with you. I've said all I had to.. it's for Callanecc to decide. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- OccultZone your conduct on those articles is not great either. In fact having seen the reverts from both of you I'm of the opinion that it might be useful to impose 1RR on both of you for any edit which relates to the India-Pakistan conflict (with the clarification that you may only revert accounts and IPs you believe to be socks without reference to 1RR if you have reported them). Opinions? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- I don't mind 1-RR for the length of my original TBAN (or a voluntary 1RR if not sanctioned)... but it will only make sense if it is symmetric to OZ or I might be effectively be blocked from making edits by simply being reverted out if OZ chooses to revert me twice every time. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:18, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- It was not just Battle of Chawinda, but many other articles. On Operation Dwarka he continued to edit war over results and never discussed them. On Inter-Services Intelligence activities in India he edit warred over making a conspiracy theory look clean. On Operation Chengiz Khan he restored the statements that were removed a year ago because they were unsourced since 2012, and his edit summary reads "Restored consensus version.. no intermediate useful edits"[3], misleading indeed because he had never discussed them. And a few others. Even if the topic ban is limited to Battle of Chawinda, I am certain that we will still have a number of unnecessary edit conflicts. Since the topic ban, TopGun has not made even 75 edits to main article space, I doubt that how he proved that he can edit without conflicting. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 06:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- To be honest, I see the consensus finalizing that infobox anyway and I can live with that (the article was really not on my top priority, I just went after some old sock master who was reverting to completely opposite statements and fell into this mess). So your offer is fine by me. Thanks. --lTopGunl (talk) 06:43, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- I have never reverted more than 2 times unless it was a sock(usually Nangparbat). While
TopGun usually reverts on the sight without even looking at the sources or the information.There are no instances where he would open a new thread on ATP and explain his edits or he would reply to any older thread that concerns the content. He usually sees what is actually favoring his opinion and that he would create unnecessary edit conflict. It is very hard to return to a stale version because TopGun normally never agrees with others. Not to forget that TopGun had violated his TBAN once[4] and even if he was not aware of it, still that edit misrepresented the source. These articles had no edit conflicts for more than a month between users, which is a good sign. Although there are some instances where some of the editors have socked,[5][6] its not that serious issue. I have never seen anyone actually alleging me of edit warring for ages. Considering that I have made over 170,000 edits, I have not been blocked even once. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- I have never reverted more than 2 times unless it was a sock(usually Nangparbat). While
"TopGun usually reverts on the sight without even looking at the sources or the information" is casting aspersions and will likely get you blocked. There are three on Operation Dwarka and that's without looking at anything other than the links you gave me. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Refactored. Thank you for informing. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- I haven't been reverting people even close to 3RR else where since my ban, so why would I editwar in the long term. Priors were related to well known hounding / baiting by a sock. 1RR as such will only slow down collaborative editing. I recently had a DYK approved from the military topics. I don't think I can develop articles that fast under 1RR. It can always be thrown in if an intentional editwar is seen in future though. Don't know why OZ is continuing to focus on me and mention my self reverted possible violation after clarification. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:30, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm just talking about since you're ban I'm talking long term (can be seen in OZ's links and in your final warning from last time). You shouldn't be reverting people when you write articles, if you are it means you need to stop and discuss with them. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- I've already agreed to an article specific topic ban, and don't mind a 1RR for the same time. I do contend that there's been nothing new that warrants an extended 1RR as the "last time" was proven to be a deliberate socking, following and what not and all those issues are stale. I don't see how this stops an admin from putting me under 1RR when the issue arises as far as "long term" is concerned about the Indo-Pak conflicts. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Ok this is what I'll do:
- I'll replace TopGun's TBAN with a TBAN from just Battle of Chawinda for the same period of time.
- I'll log a reminder (not a warning so it doesn't need to be taken as seriously in future AEs) that any edit warring on India/Pakistan related article can be dealt with by 1RR (I'll include my wording above).
- How does that sound to both of you (without repeating what you've said above)? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- Fine by me, as before. I would have asked for an IBAN, but from my prior experience, even many of the most experienced admins are not good at enforcing that properly and it wastes the community's time with meta-bickering. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- That's better, considering that we have no consensus for rejecting this appeal, neither there is consensus for increasing the scope of article ban. Good luck TopGun! OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
- I was thinking IBAN as well, but given the crossover of your editing interests, it would likely need with a TBAN for one or both of you as well. Ok I'll action my two dot points in a sec. OccultZone regarding "we" as the enforcing admin I don't need consensus to change the sanction I placed. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 08:05, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Callan, I just wasted about 30 minutes trying unsuccessfully to get {{sock}}
to work the way I wanted it to. I want to specify a different master and use the spipage parameter to point to the Chan SPI. I've done this before, so I don't know why I was having such trouble. How should it be coded? Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
{{sock|1=PolandMEC|2=cuconfirmed|spipage=Chan f.c.}}
should work, if the documentation is correct. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 17:17, 6 March 2015 (UTC)- It doesn't seem to provide a link to the SPI, though... hmm. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 17:18, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- Using
|evidence=[[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Chan f.c.]]
instead of|spipage=Chan f.c.
does provide a link to the SPI, which is the intended result, but it's a bit of a hack and it is still worth looking into why|2=confirmed
(or|2=cuconfirmed
) doesn't allow a link to a SPI to be specified. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 17:22, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- Using
- It doesn't seem to provide a link to the SPI, though... hmm. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 17:18, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
@Bbb23 and Salvidrim!: It seems to be working for me, see User:Callanecc/sandbox2. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:24, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, I didn't save the version that wasn't working, so there's nothing to show you, but I coded it correctly, and it didn't work at the time. I can also see that the template hasn't changed, so the proper inference is that both Salvidrim! and I did something wrong. I can't explain it, but it no longer matters. If it ever happens again, I'll save it somehow.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:33, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks, I can't work out what might have happened. I guess there might have been something being changed server-side which stopped something from working but who knows. Maybe it was something screwing with the preview, who knows. If it does happen again a screen shot of the code, what is produced and a note where the 'sockpuppet investigation' link goes should be all I'll need (hopefully). Regards, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:37, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Query to the Audit Subcommittee
Hello. As per Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Audit_Subcommittee#Procedure, I have twice emailed the audit subcommittee regarding a potential misuse of CheckUser tools. I have not received a response to either of those emails, so I am attempting to ask the relevant questions here without revealing private information.
Multiple editors (Manul, Astynax, and John Carter) are claiming that a member of this audit subcommittee has (off-wiki) provided them with evidence of sock puppetry by me. I deny that any such evidence could possibly exist (given that I have never engaged in puppetry of any kind, ever), but that is not why I am coming here.
I am coming here so that this subcommittee can determine if a member performed a CU, despite a recent SPI request being declined, and – if a check was run – what the reasoning was per Wikipedia:CheckUser#CheckUser_and_privacy_policy (“The onus is on an individual CheckUser to explain, if challenged, why a check was run.”). And finally, why CU results would possibly be given off-wiki to other editors to resolve.
I find it extremely unlikely that an audit committee member is in any way involved in providing personal or other non-public information to editors, or in discussing any off-wiki “evidence”, but the editors are claiming such.
My questions:
- Was a CU run against my account?
- If yes, by whom and at who’s request?
- What was the rationale for running the check (why was a check run)?
- Did a CU provide personal or other non-public data of any kind, including insinuation or anything that could be interpreted as linking my account to others, to other editors off-wiki?
I request an Audit Subcommittee investigation of this situation and the involved editors' claims.
Thank you, Tgeairn (talk) 23:23, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Two SPIs
Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Beh-nam, you had made a nice investigation there before. Also see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Thigle, I could provide more behavioral match, but I also thought that it is already long. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:44, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm confused
As requested I added this to the report but found it was already open so didn't change the tag. Now back on hold. What else do you need? Geraldo Perez (talk) 04:31, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, meant to block it (which I've done now). When you add them could you please add them to the list of suspected socks as well as changing it to open and adding a bit of evidence. Thanks, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:32, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Extend PC time? --George Ho (talk) 09:24, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
You close Thargor Orlando AE request - DHeyward below it is the same thing.
In fact, in "DHeyward," MarkBernstein complains about my comment that his "Thargor Orlando" AE request should be closed because he is topic banned. I said the same thing you said but face sanction for it. Not sure what sanction you are endorsing or why. This is the edit MArkBernstein brough to AE [7]. As you said, he shouldn't be there. --DHeyward (talk) 22:40, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
- Replied on clerks noticeboard given the majority of your comment is there. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:54, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Griffin warning
Callanecc, please tell me why my comment was uncivil? Specifico stated (my bold): "P.S. Your mistaken that Forbes' bloggers are notable experts on the subjects of their writings. Talking about the NY Times doesn't make Forbes' bloggers RS. You may think I'm mistaken." [8] I responded to him in a polite fashion with a smiley repeating what he actually said - that wasn't done with the intent to be uncivil, it was done with the intent of being kind and polite. I am so disheartened that you would consider that uncivil to the point you would send me a warning. You know full well what I've endured, and never once responded to any of them in kind. In that same thread, SPECIFICO accused me of tendentious editing [9]. That was casting aspersions. I said nothing. I have never spoken out of turn, or said anything to anyone no matter how hard they baited and harassed, and you accuse me of incivility? Please explain why you accused me of such behavior. Atsme☯Consult 03:44, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- PS - WP:BLOGS clearly states: Several newspapers, magazines, and other news organizations host columns on their web sites that they call blogs. These may be acceptable sources if the writers are professionals, so he was mistaken, and my comment was in response to content unlike what you stated in the warning. Please retract the warning here [10]. Atsme☯Consult 03:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- The pun regarding SPECIFICO's username and adding the rolling eyes are the bit which is incivil. Just as in the past I'm not going to make substantive comments on the article content, nor at this stage do I believe that administrative comment is needed on the sources. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:44, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- It's a smiley, Callan, the cutest little smiley in my collection which is why I like to use it. It is not an animation so it doesn't have rolling eyes. It represents happy and to my knowledge, there is nothing uncivil about being happy. The world would be a sad place if a smiley now represents incivility. Replacing an "a" with an "o" to match a user name was not meant to be uncivil or derogatory. Specifically and Specificolly is simply a play on words, not one thing uncivil about it. My goodness. A simple 7 word comment that he was mistaken about Forbes not being a RS was in no way intended to be uncivil. It was a simple fact, and I believed the smiley would keep tensions low, without my response being misconstrued. Unfortunately, that isn't what happened. Please explain the steps for appealing your decision and getting the ARB warning revoked. Thank you. Atsme☯Consult 13:18, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- The pun regarding SPECIFICO's username and adding the rolling eyes are the bit which is incivil. Just as in the past I'm not going to make substantive comments on the article content, nor at this stage do I believe that administrative comment is needed on the sources. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:44, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- A quick visit to the talk page today, and I see at least one other editor feels Atsme is WP:TE. I have seen many editors topic banned or worse for lesser disruption. Editors are abandoning work on the article. It's a waste of time. This kind of thing happens over and over in WP articles which have a small minority of very persistent editors who outlast the larger community and stall or subvert progress on the article. Atsme's already been warned. I have no idea what the next step should be. SPECIFICO talk 14:31, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- Callenecc, shouldn't the notice on Atsme's Talk page be the official one, with the correct wording, rather than a few kind words from yourself? I have seen editors escape sanction because the warning issued was improper, or no warning was given at all. Just asking for clarity here. Thanks. -Roxy the dog™ (resonate) 17:39, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- Callanecc, SPECIFICO just cast aspersions against me in his statements above, such as topic banned or worse for lesser disruption, and Editors are abandoning work on the article, etc. I expect administrator action because this type of behavior is unwarranted. Atsme☯Consult 20:26, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Atsme
- Atsme One of the emoticons you put there (two of the three at the top which broke the section header) is called "rolleyes". The instructions are linked on your talk page, see WP:AC/DS#Appeals. Can you explain why you think it's casting aspersions, the only one I can see there which could be is the implication that editors are leaving the article because of you. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
SPECIFICO
- SPECIFICO If you believe further action is required feel free to file an AE request. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
- I hate to think it's come down to that. I have neither the time nor the interest in compiling diffs, writing an essay about the situation, or fingering any individuals. Frankly, I was hoping that, with DS, we'd get some law and order without the drama and effort of an AE or ANI approach. If AE must be the "next step," it's not one that I will be able to do anything about. Thanks for the note. SPECIFICO talk 00:58, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
- I haven't seen enough, on my own, which would warrant anything further than the warning I've given. However I'm not looking at a list of dates diff with explanation I'm working from memory and my opinion of Atsme's conduct (which overall I haven't had a problem with). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:20, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
- I hate to think it's come down to that. I have neither the time nor the interest in compiling diffs, writing an essay about the situation, or fingering any individuals. Frankly, I was hoping that, with DS, we'd get some law and order without the drama and effort of an AE or ANI approach. If AE must be the "next step," it's not one that I will be able to do anything about. Thanks for the note. SPECIFICO talk 00:58, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
Roxy the dog
- Roxy the dog In the grand scheme of things the edit wasn't that bad and on an article that wasn't as controversial and being monitored probably wouldn't have resulted in much if any action. I'm not sure what you mean with the 'official one'? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
User:Timelezz
- Hi Callanecc , just wondering if you could have a look at this[11]. I notified SV too but I don't know if she's uninvolved in this area - so it might be best if you handled it--Cailil talk 13:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Theduinoelegy
I've removed talkpage access, since they were using it to repeat the behavior that got them sanctioned [12]. Acroterion (talk) 17:26, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks Acroterion. I'm considering whether it might just be in the best interests of the project to indef them. But there's not too much harm in giving them a little rope. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:18, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
- I had the same thought. I have little hope that they'll change their behavior, but am willing to give them one more chance. Acroterion (talk) 00:23, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
Response
Weren't you pretty quick to close the discussion? There was one involved editor opposed to the ban, one uninvolved in favor, one uninvolved admin in favor but considered himself uninvolved, and another admin who was undecided. There was no real clear consensus, especially compared to the lengthy other requests. Also, no one ever responded to what I said about a 1RR or shorter ban. Theduinoelegy had three months after two ban violations, and you only gave him a week block. Considering this what I said about all the other involved edit warers just getting warnings, would you consider a 1RR, shorter ban, or warning instead? --Steverci (talk) 18:01, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- Consensus isn't required for arbitration enforcement actions. After reviewing the evidence and comments I felt that a topic ban was called for. Moving forward I'd suggest two options:
- Wait three months editing constructively in other areas then appeal either to me or AE/etc.
- Give it a month or two of editing constructively in other areas and appeal to me then we can discuss lifting it or replacing with 1RR.
- This is just my opinion but I'm probably one of the stricter admins who monitor AE when it comes to imposing sanctions but probably one of the more lenient when it comes to lifting and lessening them. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:24, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
Griffin
Would you mind taking another look please? Richard Arthur Norton is making a good-faith attempt to provide sources firmly establishing notability but it is pretty clear his edits don't enjoy consensus and some of the sites he's linking to are subject to what I consider to be an extremely idiosyncratic interpretation of WP:RS - including Natural News and whale.to, two sites beloved of the crankosphere but cited as sources in no other articles on Wikipedia. Thanks. Guy (Help!) 22:00, 12 March 2015 (UTC)