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Replied in detail on site. [[User:Rossami|Rossami]] <small>[[User talk:Rossami|(talk)]]</small> 15:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC) |
Replied in detail on site. [[User:Rossami|Rossami]] <small>[[User talk:Rossami|(talk)]]</small> 15:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC) |
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== Wikistress and over-heated discussions == |
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Dear Bleubeatle, |
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I was going to write this note in a few days time, once signs of things had settled down, but after reading your last post at [[Talk:Ell & Nikki]], I personally felt that now was more of an apparent time. It has been noted that you're usual behavioural pattern is that of a polite and caring editor; who is generally on the quiet side. But recently that pattern appears to have done a 180-degree turn; and tempers have flared out of control. And not just on your part, but others also, who for whatever reasons are either taking conversations out of context, or are merely angry at the way you have portrayed comments across to them. Please remember that not one editor that you've come into contact with is out to get you, or target you, or make you feel hurt and sad. We're all here at the end of the day, because we care about the Wikipedia Project and the editors who work as a community on a whole - including yourself. |
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When people posted objections over the recent deletion process for [[Ell & Nikki]], they where within their right to do so; as long as they stated a valid reason for the reviewing editor to take into consideration; and from the comments during and after that process, it is clear that is exactly what happened. What some editors found to be distasteful is that after the deletion process was closed, you started to go to other talk pages asking the same questions over and over again. This naturally got people feeling annoyed, as they couldn't understand why you were going to near enough ever page possible, with the same questions of "should the case be re-opened" and whatnot. When things like that happen, people start to get suspicious as to why the same questions are being posted here, there, and everywhere; and then start to judge if there are hidden motives behind it all. I'm sure if it was someone else acting in this way, and you noticed a user posting the same question over and over again, that you too would start to wonder, why are they behaving in this way! A lot of this is explained on the help page for '''<u>[[m:Wikistress|Wikistress]]</u>'''; please take time to have a read at that page. I have, and have found it very helpful to deal with times of heated discussions. |
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Now I'm not sure if English is your native language; and if it isn't, then that could explain the misunderstandings of written text between everyone involved this far. And if it is a slight language barrier issue, then perhaps informing people of this would be a reasonable suggestion to make. Therefore people will know to be more careful in how they write comments, so that they are clear and comprehensive for everyone to understand. If on the otherhand, it isn't a language issue, but something more personal, then try not to let that personal upset take control. I know from experience how hard it is to leave troubles to one side, and try to work peacefully on here. It wasn't so long ago that I went through the same when my mother passed away. I was logged in here, on Wikipedia, at the moment I received the news from my sister. And my mind was in a state of shock and confusion. Part of me wanted to continue editing on here, albeit in small doses, but to try and take my mind of things. This proved to be more difficult than I thought, as I soon came across people posting comments, all of which I took out of context because of the emotional upset I was going through. Thankfully, a few editors on here shown support and care. They talked to me like a real person and not as if they were replying to a written conversation. I am very thankful of those people, and to this day, will show my support for them whenever and wherever possible - its the least I can do in gratitude of their support during the difficult time. |
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So hopefully, if you understand what I've just written, I would like to suggest that the recent heated debate at [[Talk:Ell & Nikki]] be discarded. I can get someone to hide the heated side of things - it won't be deleted forever, as you know everything is stored in the history logs; and can easily be retrieved. But wiping the slate clean, and re-starting discussions adultly and professionally, may be the best step forward. Although, it re-asking questions about deleting/merging may be best left on-hold for the time-being. As you may not be aware, the [[Eurovision Song Contest 2012]] article has been nominated for a [[WP:GAN|GA-class]] review; and I think for now having Ell & Nikki; and Running Scared articles, could increase the chances of gaining the project's first GA article on an annual Eurovision page. Just think, if the GA is granted, how much pride we as members of the project would feel. After all, it is our combined contributions that will have created that to happen. So what do you say? Cool down the heated debate, start afresh, and pray to the heavens that [[WP:ESC]] gets its first GA article? [[User:Wesley Mouse|<font color="DarkSlateBlue" face="Tahoma">'''Wesley'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Wesley_Mouse|<font color="OrangeRed">☀</font>]][[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<font color="SaddleBrown" face="Tahoma">'''''Mouse'''''</font>]] 05:19, 17 June 2012 (UTC) |
Revision as of 05:19, 17 June 2012
WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - June 2012
Note: the Newsletter is "collapsed" for convenience. To see the full letter, click on the "show" button at the right end of the blue bar.
The WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter | ||||||||
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This Newsletter was delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 00:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC). If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list.
Proposed deletion of Eldar & Nigar
Hi I have removed your PROD on Eldar & Nigar. If anything you should put their separate articles up for AfD for consensus concerning any possible deletion. They won Eurovision as a group and placed high on a number of music charts as a group not as solo singers.--BabbaQ (talk) 11:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) Technically all articles should remain. Ell & Nikki are actually solo artists, and where only forged together as a duo for the sake of Eurovision. Wesley☀Mouse 13:15, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
- To put it into context, take for example Ant & Dec. They are a duo (formerly pop singers, turned TV presenters), and have an article as a duo, but also have articles as solo people Anthony McPartlin and Declan Donnelly. Therefore Eldar & Nigar would be fine as the duo article, while keeping Eldar Gasimov and Nigar Jamal as articles to show their individualities. Wesley☀Mouse 13:19, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
- I agree fully with you Weasley. But if the user believes that the duo article or the separate articles should be put up for AfD then the separate articles would be more logical to put up for AfD. Even though I have to admit that the chances of any of the articles being deleted is slim at best.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:30, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
- I am actually the creator of the article as Ell & Nikki and I am so jubilant about this. This is what the article looked at the time I created it: [1] It is always a pleasure to recognize significant events while they are happening. And I love this duo. It's good they won and I'm so happy about that. Their song remains a favourite and I listen to it many times... As for the proposal, As a duo, they are very significant as they have won Eurovision and will be constantly referred to from now on as the winning artists duo Ell & Nikki. I am proposing change of title (refer to below). As individuals, they are also equally distinct each on his or her own wright and have their distinct and very well-known careers. I suggest that Eldar & Nigar remains as a coverage of their Eurovision win, with all personal details as individuals removed and reverted to their individual page, and in the individual pages, a brief mention is made about their win in Eurovision and then refer to their joint Eurovision page with all personal details kept in the individual pages. For me, all articles should stay, Eldar & Nigar (after changing it to Ell & Nikki), Eldar Gasimov and Nigar Jamal werldwayd (talk) 16:02, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
- I agree fully with you Weasley. But if the user believes that the duo article or the separate articles should be put up for AfD then the separate articles would be more logical to put up for AfD. Even though I have to admit that the chances of any of the articles being deleted is slim at best.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:30, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Proposed change of article title to Ell & Nikki or Ell / Nikki
The article should not be Eldar & Nigar but rather Ell & Nikki (or Ell / Nikki). This is the name under which they won. See performance in semi-finals [2] See performance in the final: [3] See official video [4] See official video on BBC [5]. The announcement is written as Ell / Niki so that's another possibility, but Wikipedia conventions may bypass that presentation ion favour of Ell & Nikki werldwayd (talk) 16:05, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Proposed move to a general discussion page for greater participation
I noticed we are responding on the personal talk page of colleague Bleubeatle. For better access by other interested parties, shouldn't this be in an independent discussion page not related to the talk page of one colleague? werldwayd (talk) 16:35, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
- Yes sorry. I made a mistake when proposing a deletion. I've finally moved it to a proper discussion page.Bleubeatle (talk) 05:50, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
- At what stage do you intend to inform the project talk page that you have AFD'd an article relating to Eurovision? And I fail to understand your reasons for nominating its deletion to begin with. I already explained above using Ant & Dec as an example; Ell & Nikki comes under the same criteria, as they have performed as a duo, but also have solo careers, warranting all three articles. If memory serves me correctly, Ell & Nikki was nominated once before under the same reason as you have used, and it was rejected. So this AFD is just a waste of time and effort in my opinion. Wesley☀Mouse 13:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
- Yes sorry. I made a mistake when proposing a deletion. I've finally moved it to a proper discussion page.Bleubeatle (talk) 05:50, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Moving this discussion of deletion to a new page
Hi everyone , please carry this discussion on the new page that I have created here. Not on my talk page.Bleubeatle (talk) 04:01, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Project Eurovision RFC discussion reminder
WikiProject Eurovision: This is a reminder to all members of Project Eurovision, that there is still an ongoing RfC discussion taking place at the project talk page. It is vital that everyone participates in this discussion, as it concerns the future manual of style and article layout in regards to Eurovision Song Contest by Year and Junior Eurovision Song Contest by Year articles. This is your ideal opportunity to contribute suggestions and ideas on a major issue, which will reflect on the way these articles will be written in future. Thank You! EdwardsBot (talk) 14:06, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Civility Barnstar | |
for good humour despite being a bit outnumbered on the Ell and Nikki issue Zymurgy (talk) 09:12, 9 June 2012 (UTC) |
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
re: [[[edit]Wikipedia talk:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Commenting after each "Keep" vote?]]
Replied in detail on site. Rossami (talk) 15:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Wikistress and over-heated discussions
Dear Bleubeatle,
I was going to write this note in a few days time, once signs of things had settled down, but after reading your last post at Talk:Ell & Nikki, I personally felt that now was more of an apparent time. It has been noted that you're usual behavioural pattern is that of a polite and caring editor; who is generally on the quiet side. But recently that pattern appears to have done a 180-degree turn; and tempers have flared out of control. And not just on your part, but others also, who for whatever reasons are either taking conversations out of context, or are merely angry at the way you have portrayed comments across to them. Please remember that not one editor that you've come into contact with is out to get you, or target you, or make you feel hurt and sad. We're all here at the end of the day, because we care about the Wikipedia Project and the editors who work as a community on a whole - including yourself.
When people posted objections over the recent deletion process for Ell & Nikki, they where within their right to do so; as long as they stated a valid reason for the reviewing editor to take into consideration; and from the comments during and after that process, it is clear that is exactly what happened. What some editors found to be distasteful is that after the deletion process was closed, you started to go to other talk pages asking the same questions over and over again. This naturally got people feeling annoyed, as they couldn't understand why you were going to near enough ever page possible, with the same questions of "should the case be re-opened" and whatnot. When things like that happen, people start to get suspicious as to why the same questions are being posted here, there, and everywhere; and then start to judge if there are hidden motives behind it all. I'm sure if it was someone else acting in this way, and you noticed a user posting the same question over and over again, that you too would start to wonder, why are they behaving in this way! A lot of this is explained on the help page for Wikistress; please take time to have a read at that page. I have, and have found it very helpful to deal with times of heated discussions.
Now I'm not sure if English is your native language; and if it isn't, then that could explain the misunderstandings of written text between everyone involved this far. And if it is a slight language barrier issue, then perhaps informing people of this would be a reasonable suggestion to make. Therefore people will know to be more careful in how they write comments, so that they are clear and comprehensive for everyone to understand. If on the otherhand, it isn't a language issue, but something more personal, then try not to let that personal upset take control. I know from experience how hard it is to leave troubles to one side, and try to work peacefully on here. It wasn't so long ago that I went through the same when my mother passed away. I was logged in here, on Wikipedia, at the moment I received the news from my sister. And my mind was in a state of shock and confusion. Part of me wanted to continue editing on here, albeit in small doses, but to try and take my mind of things. This proved to be more difficult than I thought, as I soon came across people posting comments, all of which I took out of context because of the emotional upset I was going through. Thankfully, a few editors on here shown support and care. They talked to me like a real person and not as if they were replying to a written conversation. I am very thankful of those people, and to this day, will show my support for them whenever and wherever possible - its the least I can do in gratitude of their support during the difficult time.
So hopefully, if you understand what I've just written, I would like to suggest that the recent heated debate at Talk:Ell & Nikki be discarded. I can get someone to hide the heated side of things - it won't be deleted forever, as you know everything is stored in the history logs; and can easily be retrieved. But wiping the slate clean, and re-starting discussions adultly and professionally, may be the best step forward. Although, it re-asking questions about deleting/merging may be best left on-hold for the time-being. As you may not be aware, the Eurovision Song Contest 2012 article has been nominated for a GA-class review; and I think for now having Ell & Nikki; and Running Scared articles, could increase the chances of gaining the project's first GA article on an annual Eurovision page. Just think, if the GA is granted, how much pride we as members of the project would feel. After all, it is our combined contributions that will have created that to happen. So what do you say? Cool down the heated debate, start afresh, and pray to the heavens that WP:ESC gets its first GA article? Wesley☀Mouse 05:19, 17 June 2012 (UTC)