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The only reason I mentioned TWoP is that you said there was no reception to be found. I could of used [http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/smallvilleseason1.php this] as an example instead and perhaps avoided much debate. |
The only reason I mentioned TWoP is that you said there was no reception to be found. I could of used [http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/smallvilleseason1.php this] as an example instead and perhaps avoided much debate. |
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If you wish to discuss the merits of TWoP however I will. I agree it is by no means the most professional site, however I do not agree that it is useless. The grading system whilst poor in justifications can be used in context to show how an episode stands up within a season, though I am not saying that you should create every episode and add in a reception section solely based on TWoP. Also I feel that emphasising your judgement using the [[Television Without Pity|Wikipedia article]] is also not a good argument, as the particular article is poorly referenced in the section about shows and recaps and the three alluding to its poor professionalism are not [[WP:RS|reliable]]. I also don't really see how judgement can be passed based on the names of reviewers, as just like here they are probably entitled to there [[WP:Anonymity]]. In no way do I feel that a couple of sources are reason to create a whole article on each episode, I was just pointing out that I found these quickly and that if you maybe dug deeper there maybe things to find. For example, overall season reviews often mention highlights from the season which allude to particular episodes, and there also other non-google resources to consider that contain a wider range of information, e.g. [[Nexis]], [http://www.archive.org Archives], [http://www.allbusiness.com/3470945-1.html?query=Smallville Allbusiness] etc. [[User:Rambo's Revenge|<b><font color="#E32636">Rambo's Revenge</font></b>]] [[User talk:Rambo's Revenge|<small><b><font color="#FFA500">(talk)</font></b></small>]] 13:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC) |
If you wish to discuss the merits of TWoP however I will. I agree it is by no means the most professional site, however I do not agree that it is useless. The grading system whilst poor in justifications can be used in context to show how an episode stands up within a season, though I am not saying that you should create every episode and add in a reception section solely based on TWoP. Also I feel that emphasising your judgement using the [[Television Without Pity|Wikipedia article]] is also not a good argument, as the particular article is poorly referenced in the section about shows and recaps and the three alluding to its poor professionalism are not [[WP:RS|reliable]]. I also don't really see how judgement can be passed based on the names of reviewers, as just like here they are probably entitled to there [[WP:Anonymity]]. In no way do I feel that a couple of sources are reason to create a whole article on each episode, I was just pointing out that I found these quickly and that if you maybe dug deeper there maybe things to find. For example, overall season reviews often mention highlights from the season which allude to particular episodes, and there also other non-google resources to consider that contain a wider range of information, e.g. [[Nexis]], [http://www.archive.org Archives], [http://www.allbusiness.com/3470945-1.html?query=Smallville Allbusiness] etc. [[User:Rambo's Revenge|<b><font color="#E32636">Rambo's Revenge</font></b>]] [[User talk:Rambo's Revenge|<small><b><font color="#FFA500">(talk)</font></b></small>]] 13:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC) |
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:Having taken on your comments and re-reading [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Style guidelines]] & [[Wikipedia:Television episodes]] I am coming round to a view that each episode may not warrant its own article. However if this is the case I feel there should be a place for ratings/viewing figures of individual episodes. e.g. I have found articles like [http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services-miscellaneous-business/4745856-1.html page 3] gives ratings for the first three episodes - (6.2/ 9), (5.9/ 9), (5.8/ 8), [http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services-miscellaneous-business/4746071-1.html Page 2] gives ratings for the fourth (5.9/ 9) etc. These ratings are by no means easy to find but they are there usually on Wednesday or Thursdays Programming Insider articles and if individual episode articles aren't going to exist these ratings warrant inclusion somewhere else within the season page/topic. As for DVD's I would still favour its inclusion in the season 1 article and [[Pilot (Smallville)]] should surely mention that it had it's own DVD release (combined with episode 2) as a kind of movie. [http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/reviews/Smallville-Volume-Release/1195]. |
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== Hi there. == |
== Hi there. == |
Revision as of 15:53, 7 August 2008
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Smallville
Hey, I finally picked up the season 1 and 2 boxsets today. I didn't plan to, but they were half price in the bargain bin - £14.99 each, so I couldn't resist. Then the guy at the checkouts got mixed up and undercharged me by halfing them again, so I got them both for £14.99. Pretty good deal. Anyway, expect to hear my scathing review sometime soon. :P Any eps I should look forward to? Paul 730 16:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- I should have totally stocked up, they were all on offer (guess ol' Smallville aint selling so well), but I didn't want to buy more than two seasons of a show I'm not sure I like or not. I doubt they'll be there next time, it was a clearance sale and the vultures were getting well stuck in. Paul 730 16:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- I just watched the pilot... meh, it was okay. Some really clumsy dialogue and expositional moments, but it's the pilot so that's fair. I already hate Lana. But Clark's dad is hot so I guess it balances out. (I have seen the show before, but this is the first time I've really known what's been going on). Everyone so nice in it, I wanted a Cordelia to come in and bitch things up a bit. :P Paul 730 20:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Lana's parents death made me laugh, they just stood staring at this meteor that was about to kill them. The least they could have done was look mildly alarmed. The whole meteor shower was pretty epic actually, I was impressed. I wanted to see more from the electric guy, electric powers are always cool but he didn't really amount to much. He felt like he was just there as an obligatory villain rather than having any connection to the story. I think Chloe is my favourite character so far, she seems to have the most personality. Paul 730 20:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- I just watched the pilot... meh, it was okay. Some really clumsy dialogue and expositional moments, but it's the pilot so that's fair. I already hate Lana. But Clark's dad is hot so I guess it balances out. (I have seen the show before, but this is the first time I've really known what's been going on). Everyone so nice in it, I wanted a Cordelia to come in and bitch things up a bit. :P Paul 730 20:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
This reveals season eight starts on September 18. Alientraveller (talk) 16:17, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- I didn't mean to include Superman as "the character" but rather the Superman franchise of which Smallville is a part of, whether he wears tights or not. It's your call, though. Btw, I watched "Hourglass" today and I wasn't too impressed, considering it's one of your favourite episodes. I liked Martha but it dragged a bit, I felt. I want to see more of Chloe and Pete, they've been so underused. Do they have any centric episodes in seasons 1 or 2? Paul 730 22:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- I know what you mean. There's episodes of Buffy and Doctor Who that I only like for a single scene alone - usually the epilogue - rather than the full episode. Like Buffy and Giles' dialogue at the end of "Lie to Me" and Rose mourning planet Earth at the end of "The End of the World". Poignant moments in otherwise unremarkable episodes. Paul 730 13:47, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- I've watched up to "Hug", which I happened to really enjoy. It was a nice change of pace from the high school Clana melodrama. I'm starting to like Lex even though I don't really get him. I still hate Lana, she's so self-absorbed and annoyingly perfect, how can you stand her? She's like the Mary Sue love interest they'd have to distract Clark from his real love Chloe, except I know in advance that's how it happens. Chloe reminds me of Willow, although she's obviously not in the same league because she's not Alyson Hannigan. :P Paul 730 18:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- She's normal because she's a stupid self-absorbed bitch who lives in denial? ;) Nah, I'll stick with Chloe, thankyouverymuch. I can't criticise Mack at all, but I've always considered Alyson Hannigan to be an exceptional actress. There's no one quite like her, casting her as Willow was like striking gold. Paul 730 20:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- It was the way you said she just continues living as normal despite the strange things going on. Chloe find that strange, wants to investigate, but Lana's too busy complaining about her dead parents to even notice. She keeps getting attacked by Kryptonite freaks and she barely acknowledges it. The Buffy characters brush that stuff off because they're cynical and cool, but Lana just seems to be in a daydream or something. That's just my impression half way through the first season though, maybe she wises up. I find her self-absorbed because every conversation she has seem to be about her dead parents or her own emotions. I just feel like "get over yourself". The Hannigan/Mack comparison just stemmed from our usual Buffy/Smallville rivalry and the fact the two characters are vaguely similar. Paul 730 20:51, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- She's normal because she's a stupid self-absorbed bitch who lives in denial? ;) Nah, I'll stick with Chloe, thankyouverymuch. I can't criticise Mack at all, but I've always considered Alyson Hannigan to be an exceptional actress. There's no one quite like her, casting her as Willow was like striking gold. Paul 730 20:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- I've watched up to "Hug", which I happened to really enjoy. It was a nice change of pace from the high school Clana melodrama. I'm starting to like Lex even though I don't really get him. I still hate Lana, she's so self-absorbed and annoyingly perfect, how can you stand her? She's like the Mary Sue love interest they'd have to distract Clark from his real love Chloe, except I know in advance that's how it happens. Chloe reminds me of Willow, although she's obviously not in the same league because she's not Alyson Hannigan. :P Paul 730 18:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- I know what you mean. There's episodes of Buffy and Doctor Who that I only like for a single scene alone - usually the epilogue - rather than the full episode. Like Buffy and Giles' dialogue at the end of "Lie to Me" and Rose mourning planet Earth at the end of "The End of the World". Poignant moments in otherwise unremarkable episodes. Paul 730 13:47, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
It feels like she's always talking about her parents. I guess I'm just giving her a hard time because I don't like her, she's such a wet blanket. Such a damsel in distress, and not just in a literal "Help, this mutant is trying to kill me" kind of way. She's nothing like Cordelia except for social status. Cordelia, nasty or not, was always a strong character. When vampires tried to bite her, she bit them back and yelled "See how you like it!" That's a character I'm interested in watching, not some drippy "nice" girl. I haven't seen much stength in Lana so far (except maybe tricking the principal into giving the paper back to Chloe, but even then...) Paul 730 21:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Some of my most hated characters have managed to redeem themselves (yes, even Connor, he's not that bad anymore). Oh, and Zythe isn't going to like that Veronica Mars crack, he loves that show. I've never seen it. Btw, Re-Animator is showing on TV next week. Is it worth staying up for? Paul 730 22:51, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- Like I said, I can't comment. Joss Whedon likes it, which indicates quality. Yeah, it's the first Re-Animator. I know basically nothing about it, except that it's some cult zombie film. Oh, and Ash has fought him or something. Is there anyone Ash hasn't fought? He's fighting Xena at the moment, I think? He's such a crossover whore. Paul 730 23:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Lol, was that a call for back-up? :P Sorry to leave you debating alone, but it's hard coming up with new arguments when you're basically just repeating yourself to someone who won't listen. Maybe we should ask others to offer their opinion? Like on the WAF talk page or something? This is starting to feel like the Angel episode debate again; fanboyism ruling over encylopedic writing and us spitting into the wind.
On a happier note, I watched "Nicodemus" today and was impressed. It was cool seeing the characters' true colours coming out, how they really felt underneath. I loved Evil Lana's line "For once I'm not scared of life, and no one can handle it because you all prefer the insecure little girl. Well, I'm sick of her and all her talk about her dead parents." Couldn't have said it better myself, love. Evil Lana was pretty cool actually, I'd rather watch her than the normal version. Although her strip tease was just creepy, she's 14/15 for goodness sake. Paul 730 18:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
- I think the driving age is 17 over here, I'm not sure. The age thing in Smallville is pretty funny, they're rather stubly and muscular for fourteen year olds. Take it with a generous pinch of salt, I say. Yeah, I'm getting through those episodes, all my friends are on holiday so when I'm not working I'm sat at home. Didn't you watch all of Heroes season 1 in a weekend? I hate Heroes now, I've went right off it.
- Another point of interest about Smallville - Lex. I didn't think I'd like him because I thought a friendship between him and Clark would be very forced, but he's quite a tragic character. He reminds me of Faith in the prequel novel Go Ask Malice; she's much more innocent (well, for Faith) in that story, but it's sad reading it because you already know she's destined for evil. Lex is quite kind hearted in Smallville season one and it's sad to know in advance how he ends up. Paul 730 20:26, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
- I gave up on Heroes during season two, it was just so boring I wasn't willing to waste an hour of my life watching it. Even put me off watching the first season again. The part that made me pity Lex was in "Jitters"; following the hostage situation, Clark is comforted by his relieved parents while Lex is exploited in front of the cameras by Lionel (who looks like he needs a bath btw). That's the difference between the two characters.
- How you think Smallville will end without Lex and Lana? I don't see how Lex can't be in the final episode, that would just ruin the whole show. Is he still going to guest star Giles-style? I just found out the actress who plays Martha in Doctor Who may have been fired, which pisses me off because the character doesn't have closure. Paul 730 14:12, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
It seems like losing at Lex at this stage damages the momentum they've spent seven years building towards the "Superman" era. I hope they manange to pulls things off though. How would you describe the level of quality across Smallville? Like, I think Buffy improved each year through seasons one to three, suffered some identity problems in four, reached it's peak in season five, then dipped slightly in six and seven (every season is special in it's own way though). I'm not sure a two-hour finale is all that necessary. People claim the Buffy finale was rushed but I think that's unfair because the last quarter of the season was spent building up to the last episode, they feel like one big episode when watched consecutively. Don't expect every loose end to be tied up though; you'll only be disappointed. Buffy and Giles never really reconciled on the show (which actually made for more drama in the comic so it's all good). The Doctor Who finale (well, the finale to Davies' run on the show) also had a couple of loose ends relationship-wise which I doubt will be resolved. So long as it's a good story that stays true to the show's original concept, that's the important part. Paul 730 15:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
- Fair enough, if his Smallville arc is over, he might have been better off leaving. I was asking about the quality because I see Smallville treated with such contempt by comic book fans on Newsarama and other sites. I wasn't sure if there was any truth to it or if they were just spreading their usual poison. What was wrong with season seven? I think that looks like the most interesting season. Clark looks more like Superman, Supergirl, Bizarro, Lionel dies... what's not to love?
- I hope they make a Smallville reunion movie a few years down the line. It's what all the cool kids are doing and it would better than Singer's attempts to dredge up the past. There's talks of a Buffy movie, which I hope doesn't get made. Joss has said he would be willing to overwrite the comics with a movie if he could, which I find disgusting. I'm not prepared to throw away a whole season of brilliance just for something live-action. Paul 730 07:52, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not a fanboy! I'm susceptible to fanboyism behaviour sometimes but I certainly don't identify as one. Fanboys annoy me for many reasons I won't list because I'll get ranty. When it comes to Buffy, I let Whedon tell his story the way he wants to because he's a far more talented writer than I am. I can say "wouldn't this be cool..." but at the end of the day it's his universe and he knows how to handle it. As for his movie overwriting the comics, his exact words were he would try to make it fit, but if he couldn't he "wouldn't lose a lot of sleep" losing the comics if it meant working with the actors again. Perhaps a hyperbole? I hope so. Since Season 8 is leading into Fray, I think he does respect continuity, he just won't be a slave to it.
- Aaron Ashmore isn't bad looking. I've not seen him as Jimmy, but his twin was kinda cute as Iceman. Sometimes geeks are hot, I'd take David Tennant over Tom Welling any day.
- I've watched up to "Heat". Which I thought was funny how they used heat vision as an awkward metaphor for wanking. :P "Tempest" was really good, far more exciting than any Superman movie, although I'm not sure I like how they broke it up between seasons? That made for a weird three month jump between season two's first and second episode? Also, I was in town today and bought seasons three and four. I'm enjoying the show - not loving it - but certainly enjoying it. Paul 730 18:26, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Break
- Welling is better looking in a clinical objective way but Tennant is more attractive. Tennant is a big sex symbol in Britain, I sure most people (at least over here) given the choice would choose him over Welling and his mop top.
- "Heat" was a bit risque for ol' Smallville. I didn't think Clark knew what sex was, his idea of x-rated is taking a girl up to his barn to "watch the sunset". The Parents Television Council will be up in arms. Paul 730 10:55, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
- Relax, I'm kidding. I'm just making fun of the show's wholesomeness. Clark has pre-marital sex!? That's digusting, set Jason onto him!
- Woo hoo, a Pete-centric episode at long last. I like Pete but he's such a peripheral character I always forget about him. "Red" was cool, although it was funny how "evil" Clark was basically just a normal teenager in black clothes. Paul 730 13:58, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
- Seen this? Paul 730 17:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
- Isn't Doomsday a Kryptonian in the comics but a human in Smallville? I wonder if he'll be the "Big Bad" this season or just a recurring villian.
- To be honest, I'm not crazy about any of those images. Not to be all demanding, but couldn't you catch a screenshot from your DVDs? Paul 730 11:13, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'd try to find a headshot of Clark (as opposed to a fully-body shot like Jason's) in his red-jacket-over-blue-shirt outfit (since I kind of got the impression from those other pics that you like that combo). Also, a brightly-lit environment (maybe outside the Kent farm) to show the character's optimism (as opposed to say, Batman, in his dark world). For example, look at Image:S101 Angel.png, that picture was chosen because it shows Angel all conflicted and broody in dark room, which is in character. I dunno, it's up to you, you know Clark better than I do. :P Paul 730 12:35, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Charmed lasted a whole season longer than Buffy, but no one could ever say that meant it was a better show! :P ~ZytheTalk to me! 11:57, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
- All the S. Deknights, Goddards, K. Vaughans, Furys and Espensons are off doing big things in the television world. When I first started watching Veronica Mars, I instantly saw she essentially was Chloe outside the DC Universe. But it didn't matter, because as some great people have said, it is one of the best TV shows ever made, in terms of quality.~ZytheTalk to me! 12:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
- Charmed is hardly more popular than Buffy because it lasted a year longer; Buffy ended when it did because SMG decided to leave, not because the networks thought "fuck this show, it's not as popular anymore". Looking at it from a purely business side, Buffy is far more franchise-y in nature than Charmed with all it's spin-offs and merchandise. Even without taking quality into consideration, I think Buffy is much more popular than Charmed.
- Btw, I saw Dark Knight today and was thoroughly impressed. Ledger's isn't overrated at all like I thought it would be, he's actually adorable as the Joker. I'm glad I didn't see Two-Face's disfigurement before seeing it because that did pack a punch when it was revealed. Also, I loved the criminal-with-a-heart-of-gold on the boat who threw the detonator out the window. Aw, gotta love those unsung heroes. Paul 730 20:21, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
- Hmm, an observation you knew would rub me the wrong way. :P
- I also bought that Batman: Gotham Knight DVD out of curiosity as well as that Superman Allstar book you were "WTH??"-ing the other week. Allstar exists in it's own little continuity and it's rather bizarre - Grant Morrison is an eccentric writer. You should get it though, Frank Quitely's artwork is gorgeous and it's a really critically acclaimed Superman series. Urgh, I've been buying far too much DC shit lately for my liking. ;) Paul 730 22:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
- Never! I'm a Marvel fan through and through! Although I do want to get Superman for All Seasons. Have you read it? Paul 730 22:46, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
- My friend owns Batman: The Long Halloween and Batman: Dark Victory, which are done by Loeb and Sale and are supposedly some of the definitive Batman stories. I tried buying them today but my crappy comic book shop didn't have them as usual. They've also done a bunch of Marvel mini series that I can't find anywhere. Oh, it turns out All Star Superman has a Wikipedia page I couldn't find cos I was spelling it wrong. Do you think you'd get that? Paul 730 22:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
- Never! I'm a Marvel fan through and through! Although I do want to get Superman for All Seasons. Have you read it? Paul 730 22:46, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
- Lol, the poll is kind of biased because Whedonesque and SlayAlive were attracting Buffy fans to come and vote (that's how I found it in the first place). Although, hey, if her fans are loyal enough to do that, then that only proves how cool she is. :P In terms of a fight, yes, Buffy would get her ass handed to her by Superman. She could probably beat him eventually with a little planning/help from the Scoobies, it's not the first time she's defeated gods/opnipotent forces, but in a straight up one-on-one fight he would destroy her. Although, as one of the commenters said, Buffy defeated Dracula pretty easily because she "watched [his] movies", so she'd probably be able to use her pop culture knowledge against Supes as well. Superman vs. Willow would be a far more balanced and interesting fight, she could give him a run for his money, I think. In terms of who's a better character, I'd rate Superman higher purely for his massive cultural impact, but personally I find Buffy much more layered and interesting to watch/read about. As for the killing... that's kind of a weird area. Originally, vampires were purely evil creatures with no human qualities, so it was okay for Buffy to kill them because they were just monsters. But then Spike and Lorne and Clem came along and kind of humanized demons, and Buffy's actions began to look more like genocide (although she doesn't ever kill humans except in self defense). It's something that might be getting explored in the future actually; in Season 8, demons and Slayers are getting exposed to the general public, and the forums are speculating that people will embrace vamps as a new species and condemn the murderous Slayers. Should be pretty interesting if they go down that route. Paul 730 14:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
- Lol, just imagining all of Superman's fans as a bunch of geriatrics in an old folks home. In "Tough Love", Willow used a spell on Glory (who has super speed much like Superman) which made the air around her thick like tar, nullifying her speed to the point where she could barely move. So Superman's speed really wouldn't be much use against Ms. Rosenberg. In most of the krypto-freak battles, there's usually some conveniently-placed Kryptonite lying around to make Clark vulnerable (usually Lana's bloody necklace, which rivals the sonic screwdriver when it comes to overused plot devices). Sometimes it gets a bit annoying when characters are so powerful they can do anything. I heard that's the reason Marvel writers don't like Doctor Strange, because it's too hard to put him in situations he can't immediately solve. I certainly wouldn't have guessed Clark is super smart from Smallville.
- Heroes is just too slow. Too much talk about saving the world and not enough actually doing it. The first season was interesting at the time, but I don't really feel like watching it again now that I know what happens. Season 2 made me realise that I don't really care about any of the characters. Lol, you and your "tingles". Look, we all know about your big man-crush on Tom Welling, you can stop pretending that your tingles have anything to do with the writing. Paul 730 17:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
- I think All Star Superman is based on the Silver Age version of the character. He's pretty God-like in that, the opening issue has him flying into the Sun. I'm not usually a fan of cosmic superheroes, but I'll let Superman off since he's pretty grounded on planet Earth (as opposed to Silver Surfer or someone like that). The speed at which they solve clues in Smallville amuses me, they figure it out way too quickly, it's like "the episode's only 40 minutes long, we have to get this expostion out of the way so Clark can go kick their ass!" Like that scene in Freddy vs. Jason where they sit around the table and explain the ludicrous storyline as if anybody would actually jump to those conclusions in real life. Ah, well. :)
- That "it went rather interestingly" comment can be read so many ways I'm not even going to go near it. How's your internship going, you enjoying it? Paul 730 17:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
- The season-spanning arc in the first season of Heroes was great, but the second season takes the piss. Even though it's fewer episodes, the story move at such snail's pace that it becomes mind-numbing. The Hiro-in-Japan story is truly painful. Maybe it won't be as bad for you watching it continuously on DVD. I like Smallville, but I don't think I'd have the patience for it on a week-to-week basis. Aw, it's nice that you want to go back to your internship, did you become quite close to the people you were working with? Paul 730 17:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Break 2
I just watched "Rosetta" and really liked it. It's the first time Smallville has felt like part of the Superman mythos rather than just some teen sci fi show. Very effective use of the original music, I'm not a big fan of the Superman movies but they've got a great score. Paul 730 03:16, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
- The season two finale was pretty cool. I love season finales, the way they just completely destroy the main character's personal life. Still getting used to the slightly more mature Clark in season three though. Why so serious? (Urgh, now I'm quoting DC characters, this has GOT to stop.) Paul 730 01:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- I've finished the first disc, just watched the episode with the girl from Freddy vs. Jason who's in a coma. Lol, the Clana shit is getting tired. It's like "you're sixteen, just get off already!!" Although Lana herself is significantly less anoying since she became a full-blown ninja after one self-defense class with Lex. I liked the scene where she and Martha worked together to impale that guy. Paul 730 02:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I remembered the karate pamphlet but I still thought it was funny how she became an amazing fighter overnight. I suspect the actress had something to do with that; "Hey writers, stop making me such a useless bitch!" ;) Btw, how cool is this video? It's a leaked promo for the Buffy animated series which never happened. I love the animation, it's very 90s superhero cartoon. It's a shame they never made the series but I'm grateful for seeing this clip at least. Paul 730 02:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Lol, that isn't SMG, it's Giselle Loren, who plays Buffy in the video games (and, I think, is rather good). The others were all voiced by the actors from the live action show. The series wasn't made because no studios were interested in it. Go figure. I think it might have something to do with a teenage girl stabbing people in the heart, perhaps not Saturday morning material? They're doing an issue of Season Eight in the animation style of it; check out the cover. Paul 730 02:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- You need your ears checked out, they sounded exactly like Brendon and Head. :P The promo was probably cobbled together (although I do like the animation like I said) so maybe that's why it sounded funny? Have you seen Batman: Gotham Knight? I found it pretty boring to be honest, I wouldn't recommend it. The animation was really flat and the stories were forgettable. Paul 730 02:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Lol, that isn't SMG, it's Giselle Loren, who plays Buffy in the video games (and, I think, is rather good). The others were all voiced by the actors from the live action show. The series wasn't made because no studios were interested in it. Go figure. I think it might have something to do with a teenage girl stabbing people in the heart, perhaps not Saturday morning material? They're doing an issue of Season Eight in the animation style of it; check out the cover. Paul 730 02:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I remembered the karate pamphlet but I still thought it was funny how she became an amazing fighter overnight. I suspect the actress had something to do with that; "Hey writers, stop making me such a useless bitch!" ;) Btw, how cool is this video? It's a leaked promo for the Buffy animated series which never happened. I love the animation, it's very 90s superhero cartoon. It's a shame they never made the series but I'm grateful for seeing this clip at least. Paul 730 02:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- I've finished the first disc, just watched the episode with the girl from Freddy vs. Jason who's in a coma. Lol, the Clana shit is getting tired. It's like "you're sixteen, just get off already!!" Although Lana herself is significantly less anoying since she became a full-blown ninja after one self-defense class with Lex. I liked the scene where she and Martha worked together to impale that guy. Paul 730 02:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Meh, I wouldn't bother. I kind of have buyer's remorse over it because it was just pointless. Borrow it off a friend, maybe. I'm not sure whether to get Diary of the Dead, zombie films are so hit and miss. I picked up the Night of the Living Dead remake the other day, that's my favourite zombie movie. Paul 730 03:05, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Ahem. Have you seen Diary? Apparently it's the worst of the Dead series? I've not even seen Land. Paul 730 03:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I was going by RT. My boss (who's a big film buff) told me he felt the political subtext in Land felt forced because the idea that there could still be a rich/poor issue in a world overrun with zombies - that money would have any meaning anymore - was silly. I was put off Land because I didn't like the idea of a zombie-world, I prefer something like Night where the zombie apocalypse is just starting. Paul 730 03:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- I can't really comment since I've not seen the film, but it's interesting to hear different viewpoints. Gives me something to think about during the film whenever I do see it. I have seen the first three Dead films so I know how the infection spreads, I'm just not keen on the nihilism of Land. I liked the chaos of the first two films, but Day was kind of depressing and Land seems like that x10. I didn't like 28 Weeks Later either, although I love the first one. Paul 730 04:28, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I was going by RT. My boss (who's a big film buff) told me he felt the political subtext in Land felt forced because the idea that there could still be a rich/poor issue in a world overrun with zombies - that money would have any meaning anymore - was silly. I was put off Land because I didn't like the idea of a zombie-world, I prefer something like Night where the zombie apocalypse is just starting. Paul 730 03:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Ahem. Have you seen Diary? Apparently it's the worst of the Dead series? I've not even seen Land. Paul 730 03:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- The reason I was holding off commenting on that nomination is because I wasn't sure there were enough articles to justify an entire topic (not saying you should make more, just that a topic for all seasons might be better). However, WP:FT? says three articles are fine, so who am I to argue?
- I haven't seen the Return of the Living Dead films but I hear the first one is good? It has Tommy Jarvis in it, always a good thing. Paul 730 08:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
- Would season 1 cease to be featured, or would it become a featured topic within a featured topic? Why are the Return films stupid, I don't know much about them? Is it slapstick wackiness like Evil Dead 2? Speaking of which, I was on the website of the guy who did the animation for that Buffy cartoon and found this funny picture for a non-existent Buffy/Army of Darkness crossover. I would totally buy that series if it was ever made, you know, in a non-canon sort of way. It would be fun to see Buffy butt heads with Ash and his chauvinistic ways. Paul 730 20:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
- Lol, it actually does look pretty funny. If I see it cheap I might buy it. I'm holding off buying Texas Chainsaw 2 because it's £7 and I'm a stingy bastard. Not sure I want to spend £7 on a sequel to a movie I didn't like; I've seen a clip of Choptop, he's pretty weird, huh? Paul 730 04:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- The clip I saw was just before the one you linked (where she gives him a "tour". I'll watch the rest of those videos later tonight, I'm kind of getting ready for work ATM). He's pretty freaky, I was kind of nervous watching it because I wasn't sure what he was going to do. Does he basically steal Leatherfaces' thunder, yeah? Paul 730 05:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- Lol, it actually does look pretty funny. If I see it cheap I might buy it. I'm holding off buying Texas Chainsaw 2 because it's £7 and I'm a stingy bastard. Not sure I want to spend £7 on a sequel to a movie I didn't like; I've seen a clip of Choptop, he's pretty weird, huh? Paul 730 04:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- Would season 1 cease to be featured, or would it become a featured topic within a featured topic? Why are the Return films stupid, I don't know much about them? Is it slapstick wackiness like Evil Dead 2? Speaking of which, I was on the website of the guy who did the animation for that Buffy cartoon and found this funny picture for a non-existent Buffy/Army of Darkness crossover. I would totally buy that series if it was ever made, you know, in a non-canon sort of way. It would be fun to see Buffy butt heads with Ash and his chauvinistic ways. Paul 730 20:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Friday the 13th Poster
Hi there. You recently removed the image of the Friday the 13th poster which was released at ComicCon. You said that if ComicCon wanted it released to the public, they'd have done so. ComicCon is a public event, and anything shown there is assumed to be made public. Bloody-Disgusting.com along with other sites and people have posted this image. It's a still image taken on a camera, therefore the person who took the picture has the right to do with it what they will...
collapsing discussions
I am unsure how to collapse discussion sections, so as to compact those bits from previous discussions brought over as background. Do you know how to accomplish this? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 15:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Cast sections
Let's centralize discussion at WT:MOSFILM. It seems appropriate to do so since the style guidelines are undergoing quite a few changes. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 13:18, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- To respond to your argument, I do not think that cast sections are mostly useless. It's a listing of the actors and their roles apart from the film's story. Yes, it can be abused to add extraneous detail and character interpretation, but on the other hand, without the cast sections, we compel the reader to plunge into the plot sections to identify who's who. My thinking for a possible revision is to propose various options. For example, #1 is the cast section with real-world context behind each bullet point, #2 is a casting section within the production section, #3 is a basic cast section if is preferred to group the actors and roles together. BTW, I've brought the non-free images draft to the attention of WT:NFC, so we're creeping closer to implementing the criteria. I really wish more people were involved; heck, it was in the last newsletter. We'll see where it goes from here. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- I agree that IMDb can take care of the brunt of cast and crew information, but such a list can also help with navigational purposes. Readers can follow the links to see the background of a particular actor, or readers can come to a film article from the actor's article to see what the actor's role was. Of course I would advocate #1 and #2, but I think we need to remember that there are a lot of stubs out there that may not even have fleshed out plot sections (or ones that are too fleshed out). I don't think the basic cast list should be dismissed for these articles, but we should recommend a transition from that list to more detail. I'll take a closer look at the cast/crew subsection to see about clarification... do you have any opinion about any of the section? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 16:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- I just did some brainstorming at User:Erik/Sandbox about future changes. Thoughts? Regarding the series issue, I don't know... opinions seem pretty all over the place considering all the issues in continuity both in-universe and out-of-universe. I don't know if there is anything concrete to be hammered out. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 16:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- I supported the FT. I really don't see much talk about FTs in general anywhere, so no wonder there's not too much attention. I've thought of doing a FT myself... best chance seems to be Neil Marshall and his films. I just nominated Doomsday as a Good Article, and I'll probably improve Dog Soldiers and The Descent down the road. There's just not a lot of biographical information about the director, so I don't know where I can go from the current revision. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 19:44, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- I haven't looked too closely. I've been all over the board with my activities, though revising MOS:FILM is probably at the forefront of it all. I only nominated Doomsday recently 'cause the DVD had a captioned commentary and captioned featurettes. In addition, I was able to get screenshots off my laptop (which was a little tricky). Perhaps we can collaborate on the articles for Marshall's films sometime. I just need to exercise some serious Google-fu (typing site:independent.co.uk "the descent" "neil marshall" and so forth. Let me poke around my subscription-only databases for anything about these Smallville episodes. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 19:58, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
← Congratulations on your impending graduation! I'm headed into graduate school myself; trying to make sure I transit into it OK. I really have no idea how busy I will be. For the FT, we could do The Descent. I think that anything we come across for this may refer back to Dog Soldiers (calling it a cult classic or reviewing that film's production), where the opposite would not be true. By the way, here's a brief bit about "Exodus" from the Chicago Tribune:
- Spelling, Ian (2003-05-20). "Smallville's Kristin Kreuk stays tightlipped on Lana and Clark's relationship". Chicago Tribune. Tribune Company.
"There's a lot going on," she says. "You've got Clark (Tom Welling) dealing with his father (John Schneider) and his destiny and trying to overcome it. He's trying to continue to be the person he believes himself to be. "So he's got that whole struggle and this huge emotional roller coaster he's on. Then you've got Lex (Michael Rosenbaum) and Helen (Emmanuel Vaugier) and their wedding and their problems." (...) "Lana and Clark are dealing with their issues too," laughs the 20-year-old Kreuk. "She's watching him fall apart, and that's really difficult for her because he never tells [her] what's going on. Their romantic relationship moves forward, but really, there are many issues involved with that."
For "Justice", I found this and this. Nothing for "Reckoning". —Erik (talk • contrib) - 20:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- Apparently I already dug up some resources for The Descent; see its talk page. Kind of forgot about that. :) I'll have Access World News on hand, and I can try to dig up some UK articles via Google. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 02:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Removal of "Joker's Scars"
Why would that section of the talk be removed and not the novel of talk about two-face? That goes on far longer than the Joker Scar talk (which did relate to the article in discussing and settling why neither story by the Joker was part of the entry) and it [the two-face debate] borders on being a flame war forum itself.
There should be some better balance to what is deleted and what is not. I concede to the deletion already made, I just don't understand why the other tired talk entry is allowed to remain in its entirety, broken into several pieces, and allowed to repeat the same arguments over and over... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Medleystudios72 (talk • contribs) 20:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Jason/Jersey
Ya know what - I apologize for my response on my talk page. You didn't deserve that. I wasn't trying to violate wp:civil with my original responses, it was my attempt at humor. So when you removed the categories, I figured you knew better and wasn't going to debate you. But for the record, for as long as I remember, everyone I grew up with was under the assumption Jason/Friday the 13th was based in Jersey. Maybe that's just a reflection of my environment. lol --Endless Dan 21:42, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- To be honest I was expecting to be bombarded with admins at my page (not an uncommon occurrence) moments after I hit 'save page'. Not that I do these things on purpose or thought it would have been unjustified if it did go down like that, but I just have very little restraint on both Wikipedia and in real life. That's a me problem I suppose. In any case, cheers. --Endless Dan 21:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Tropic Thunder
I see that you removed the soundtrack image for the Tropic Thunder page. For future reference, I was just curious about which of the criteria the image doesn't meet. The only one I believe that it doesn't meet is that it is similar to the movie poster. However, in many film articles a lot of the soundtracks utilize the similar covers/posters, but is it only acceptable if they are on two different pages? I've always thought separate soundtrack articles weren't really necessary unless there was a significant amount of information to warrant one. In its place, should I then insert another infobox and add the different looking cover for the score? If there was a separate article, I would agree with you in removing the image, but since there isn't I just want to see if there were any other reasons for the removal of the image. I know that we are currently going over the use of film screenshots, but I think the CD covers may be different. Thanks and let me know if you need further clarification on my questions. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 01:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- Don't worry, nobody's reverted you yet. I still think that it is similar to a movie poster that placed in an infobox represents the article, while the cover in the soundtrack infobox represents the information concerning the soundtrack. I don't think I have/ever will see an article that discusses a soundtrack cover. The image encompasses the soundtrack information present (which is currently brief, but will be expanded further as more sources become available). By the way, I just added a free image to the article as well I just uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 06:13, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- I just started a subsection discussion off of the screenshot discussion if you'd like to chime in further . I'm not upset, but just want further clarification/consensus so that we can build it into the image guidelines for our MOS. Thanks for you help. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 06:32, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
TWoP
The only reason I mentioned TWoP is that you said there was no reception to be found. I could of used this as an example instead and perhaps avoided much debate. If you wish to discuss the merits of TWoP however I will. I agree it is by no means the most professional site, however I do not agree that it is useless. The grading system whilst poor in justifications can be used in context to show how an episode stands up within a season, though I am not saying that you should create every episode and add in a reception section solely based on TWoP. Also I feel that emphasising your judgement using the Wikipedia article is also not a good argument, as the particular article is poorly referenced in the section about shows and recaps and the three alluding to its poor professionalism are not reliable. I also don't really see how judgement can be passed based on the names of reviewers, as just like here they are probably entitled to there WP:Anonymity. In no way do I feel that a couple of sources are reason to create a whole article on each episode, I was just pointing out that I found these quickly and that if you maybe dug deeper there maybe things to find. For example, overall season reviews often mention highlights from the season which allude to particular episodes, and there also other non-google resources to consider that contain a wider range of information, e.g. Nexis, Archives, Allbusiness etc. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 13:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- Having taken on your comments and re-reading Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Style guidelines & Wikipedia:Television episodes I am coming round to a view that each episode may not warrant its own article. However if this is the case I feel there should be a place for ratings/viewing figures of individual episodes. e.g. I have found articles like page 3 gives ratings for the first three episodes - (6.2/ 9), (5.9/ 9), (5.8/ 8), Page 2 gives ratings for the fourth (5.9/ 9) etc. These ratings are by no means easy to find but they are there usually on Wednesday or Thursdays Programming Insider articles and if individual episode articles aren't going to exist these ratings warrant inclusion somewhere else within the season page/topic. As for DVD's I would still favour its inclusion in the season 1 article and Pilot (Smallville) should surely mention that it had it's own DVD release (combined with episode 2) as a kind of movie. [1].
Hi there.
Noticed you were a contributor on a few of the articles I frequent. Figured I'd stop by, say hi, and offer you a great big dose of GO GATORS in preparation for your upcoming year of misery as the second best school in Florida. :P Jaguitar (talk) 15:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)