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Uninvolved suggestion : Have each participant put together a single image or montage that they think best represents Paris. Accompany this with a SHORT reasoning behind the selection of the images (and not commenting about why other's images are inappropriate). Make an RFC for people to choose between them, or provide comments on them. '''Neutrally''' advertise the RFC in the relevant noticeboards and wikiprojects, and let outside opinions carry the day. While historical participants of this debate are of course allowed to provide a !vote and reasoning, they should not dominate the discussion and try to convince every participant of their view, as that will actually discourage wider input. [[User:Gaijin42|Gaijin42]] ([[User talk:Gaijin42|talk]]) 15:29, 25 September 2014 (UTC) |
Uninvolved suggestion : Have each participant put together a single image or montage that they think best represents Paris. Accompany this with a SHORT reasoning behind the selection of the images (and not commenting about why other's images are inappropriate). Make an RFC for people to choose between them, or provide comments on them. '''Neutrally''' advertise the RFC in the relevant noticeboards and wikiprojects, and let outside opinions carry the day. While historical participants of this debate are of course allowed to provide a !vote and reasoning, they should not dominate the discussion and try to convince every participant of their view, as that will actually discourage wider input. [[User:Gaijin42|Gaijin42]] ([[User talk:Gaijin42|talk]]) 15:29, 25 September 2014 (UTC) |
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:Given [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Paris&diff=627072273&oldid=627064217 this lot of edits] when trying to move things in a more constructive direction, I'm out of the monumental clusterfuck of a talk page. It seems that too many overly-entrenched opinions are not going to get to any form of agreement over this. I'm monumentally pissed off with meat puppets, (and yes, I stand by that accusation, given all that happened last time, and the duck-like behaviour this time), incivility, stupid insults and lack of objectivity. I'm out, and without major admin oversight this utter abomination will continue to fester and flare up continually. Good luck looking at it, although I have been disappointed with the admin oversight on the page so far, despite requests for help at 3RR (reported 23 hours ago and no-one has grasped the nettle to do anything), and the edit warring after your warning (you may have left a warning on Metropolitan's page, but the inflammatory, uncivil and untruthful heading he warred to put back in there is still present – you may no think it was an issue, but it is pissing people off monumentally, and does not help calm discussion on the talk page. |
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:I see the whole fucking mess is now at ANI (in '''two''' separate threads). If I can bring myself to comment about the, quite frankly, idiotic behaviour on the page, I may do, but this ''should'' have been dealt with by numerous admins some time ago. I appreciate that this is not your fault and that I am venting spleen in the wrong direction, but considering I went through so many different admin channels to get some eyes on the stupidity (all of my attempts referring to each other, to avoid accusations of forum shopping), that I am hugely, monumentally and utterly pissed off that it has ended up in such a fucking mess. I am moving inevitably towards the conclusion that for all its benefits, Wikipedia is too dysfunctional to operate properly. Or that there are too few decent admins able to stand up and take action. Or that it's too easy to use meat puppets, organise through emails an attack on a talk page, and game the system. Or all of the above. I have no doubt that you or someone else will be tempted to block or ban me based on what I honestly believe has happened here (based on the known, proven history of those involved and [[WP:DUCK]]), but I realise that I no longer give a flying fuck what the administrative process of such a broken system may bring about. I'll drop a link to this onto the ANI threads, as I says all I want to say on this. - [[User:SchroCat|SchroCat]] ([[User talk:SchroCat|talk]]) 20:59, 25 September 2014 (UTC) |
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== Speedy deletion edits again == |
== Speedy deletion edits again == |
Revision as of 20:59, 25 September 2014
Deletion
Hello. This is Jayson37373737. you deleted my page for no reason. That was my loveliest work! For this, I am going to try to delete my account and start a new website. Thank you. Jayson3737373737 11:08, 17 August 2014 (GMC)
Disruptive edits
Hi. A user is making very strange changes in Cyprus-related articles like Northern Cyprus, Turkish invasion of Cyprus and others. (For example in the section titled Ottoman Era they delete everything sourced and there for a long time and replace it with unsourced speculations which are not even related to the time span! Ah and they claim WP is a huge lie and Turkish propaganda. And does this several times in a short period...) I think we need an admin who could explain them how Wikipedia functions either in Greek or in simple English because the user neither listens to me and other ordinary users nor -apparently- understands what we are trying to transmit. Please don't tell me to use the discussion page; there are people with whom one can discuss and others with whom that is simply impossible. Please do not refrain from intervening. Thank you very much and regards. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 19:09, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
- Why should I have a User Name? has been engaged in a long-running edit war on Turkish invasion of Cyprus and now seems to have moved onto Northern Cyprus - in both articles he has refused to interact with any editors on the talk pages. Some of the edits he makes includes adding off-topic material like the history of EOKA, and a lot of the edit warring is over seeming trivialities like whether 40% of Cyprus is under Turkish occupation or whether it is actually 37%. Not one of Why should I have a User Name?'s edits have been accompanied by talk page justifications. If you want to intervene, first give him a stern talking-to about the proper use of talk pages and edit summaries. The other editor, GiorgosY, is at least making some attempts at talk page engagement and refrains from filling his edit summaries with personal insults designed to further inflame the edit war. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:30, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
- I've blocked User:GiorgosY for 72 hours for disruptive editing. Almost all of his edits are severely problematic. Engaging on a talk page while disruptively editing the article doesn't save you from sanctions.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:18, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
My edits were well sourced (e.g library of the USA congress,) and had no lie on what so ever. They were also well explained. Every edit had an explanation of the why. They were made in articles which was a clear effort on hiding the truth and portraying things against my country Cyprus in a non-realistic way, something that I also had explained with well respected sources. On the contrary the users Why should I have a User Name and AlexFlemming were making a war against me, the user Why should I have a User Name tried to threaten me not to do any edits, like people have no right to add well sourced material, then he deleted all my edits and keep deleting them, and then he also reported me for this. I am wondering if you have checked the history of it, I am wondering if you have checked what those articles were saying and their relation with well respected sources and I am also wondering, if the article of Northern Cyprus, which I have let untouched for the time being, is an article that has anything to do with the truth, in relation with what respectable sources are saying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GiorgosY (talk • contribs) 21:46, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
IP sock back at his old habits again
As you asked me to inform you if there were further incidents and I've just seen some, I'll share what I know on the User:lgfcd's recent sock-edits. He's back under several IPs (200.219.133.150 200.219.132.103 and 200.219.132.105; all three of them were chattering together at Talk:Arrow_(Israeli_missile) and converged to change the citation style of Embraer E-Jet E2 family recently, see [1]) and is making the same WP:CITEVAR violations as ever (see the Embraer example, or this Boeing one [2] and reversion by another editor), he just hasn't learnt anything and is continuing the same havoc as ever. Should we speak with him and try to get him to stop the citevar violations, or is banning him again all that can be done to stem the disruption? Kyteto (talk) 18:25, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
- My apologies, Kyteto, that I didn't get to this today. It's been busy for me on Wikipedia and in my real life (it is Sunday, after all). And I won't be able to look at the situation today as it's late and I don't have the energy. I'll try to get to it later, but in the interim feel free to reopen the SPI if you wish.--Bbb23 (talk) 04:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
- That's okay, I am not in a particular rush to get the issue closed - there's no need for an immediate response, it's not a high priority. I'm happy enough that it's just going to be looked at in the future. Kyteto (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
- Kyteto, if I'd known it was going to be this easy, I would have done this earlier. :-) Two of the IPs had already been blocked twice for block evasion, and the third came from the same place. I blocked all three for six months. There's no point in talking to the master, and I'm not sure what you mean by "banning him again". Feel free to come back if there's more problems, even if it takes me a bit to get geared up. It might speed things up if you mentioned if any of the IPs have been blocked before OR if any of them come from the same range (Chamber of Deputies in Brazil). Thanks very much for your interest in protecting the project and for your patience.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:57, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
- That's okay, I am not in a particular rush to get the issue closed - there's no need for an immediate response, it's not a high priority. I'm happy enough that it's just going to be looked at in the future. Kyteto (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Your revert and edit summary
- where does *this* come from?[3]
Thanks for reverting me with an edit summary that makes no sense. "Where does this come from?" How am I supposed to respond to that? Are you implying with your revert and edit summary that the edit warring policy does not apply to admins? Viriditas (talk) 04:07, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- My edit summary was more than you deserved. You made a significant change to a core policy. Your edit summaries were perfunctory ("add" "ce"). You did not raise your proposed change anywhere that I know of (that's the "where does this come from"). What you did shows very poor judgment. Your change will not occur without either an extended RfC on the policy talk page (just a discussion isn't good enough), or a proposal at WP:VPP.--Bbb23 (talk) 04:47, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- I strongly disagree with your assessment and with your bureaucratic approach. I did not make a "significant" change to any core policy. Admins should not be edit warring nor acting as involved on the 3RR board. Stating that fact is hardly a significant change. That you actually argue that an extended RfC is needed to make a fact explicit shows who has the poor judgment here. Viriditas (talk) 05:00, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- Do not worry too much about an extended RFC, I don't think the modification will gain even a basic level of consensus. It is redundant and undue. Chillum Need help? Type {{ping|Chillum}} 05:04, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
User:Zipititzip
Perhaps you can have a look at User:Zipititzip. He seslf admits and clearly is a sock of User:Ashutosh4422, but he makes a claim that WP (some admin?) has agreed to this restart. Since you have delat with this user before, you may know more about the background and be a better judge of what to do. I deleted his recreation of Nitesh Tiwari, but restored an older version which was IMO incorrectly speedied. Feel free to correct or revert any of my actions in this. Fram (talk) 09:05, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- Hi, Fram, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I've blocked the user and spent a fairly long time cleaning up after him. What was wrong with the speedy delete on the Nitesh Tiwari article? I believe it was FreeRangeFrog who deleted it based on an A7. My deletions came later. I see nothing in it now (it's a bit better formatted) that says much. I also wonder about the editor who recreated it. They have a much longer history here, but they also have a lot of deleted articles. Why recreate that particular article?--Bbb23 (talk) 21:55, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. About the article: someone who has directed at least two blue-linked films and has an article / interview in Yahoo Celebrity should IMO not be speedy deleted for lack of claim to importance. AfD may be necessary of course, but speedy should not be used in such cases. (Speedy G5 is something different, I have no problem with those). It seems as if an AfD would have no chance either though, he clearly has some notability[4]. Note that the first movie, which he co-directed, won a National Film Awards (India). As for the original creator, he also created e.g. Deven Khote and Haidar Ali (actor), so it's not as if he wasn't interested in Bollywood before this creation. I don't think there is a connection to the later socks (but I haven't studied it in depth of course). Fram (talk) 06:35, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Another Azhar Sabri
Since you were the last person to delete "Azhar Sabri (poet)", I think I should let you know that another article has been created about the same person, this time as Azhar Sabri. with a period on the end of the name. I have nominated it for deletion. Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 10:17, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- It's been deleted by another admin. However, I have left a warning on the creator's talk page. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:02, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Block expired - disruption resumed
Hello Bbb23,
I am sorry to bother you again with this old story: the block of banned User:Danrolo's IP 201.239.253.57 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has expired and he has resumed his disruptive editing once again, including unverifiable changes and additions, fake references (citing sources that in fact do not support the claims) and even edit-warring at Union for a Popular Movement. I am afraid that the block needs to be renewed. Thanks in advance, --RJFF (talk) 14:41, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- No problem, I blocked him for one year. I'll leave any clean-up to you. I just spent a long time cleaning up after a named account sock. It's very tedious.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:07, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Hey there! Just stalking the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Edit warring. It looks like this revert was marked minor. I don't think it matters a whit, but someone is bound to jump on it. Just an FYI... Cheers! --Tgeairn (talk) 23:11, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks, Tgeairn, but, unfortunately, by the time I saw your post, it was already happily jumped on. If you want to see my explanation, you can read my response to the jump. It's not particularly interesting, but I'm sure it will be interpreted as incompetence (to some extent it already was in the jump). Regards.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:43, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Sibtain 007 SPI
Hi. In your opinion, does the Sibtain 007 SPI need to be kept open any longer? Or can it safely be closed now? — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 07:33, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
collaboration
Hello you reverted my edits and reported me to another editor. Is this assuming good faith? Inevitably me pointing out the way you treated me will make me a bigger target for you to attack. Thewhitebox (talk) 10:24, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- You reverted my edits, can you please help me with the coding? I am trying to make Template:User_alternative_account more like the sockpuppet templates - for example - centered. Thewhitebox (talk) 10:33, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Non-admin access to deleted page histories
EdJohnston suggested I ping you for advice since you do a lot of SPI clerking.
For the last few weeks I've been working on a cleanup effort of spammy and spam-like content that may have been generated by a large network of paid socks or meats. I've only just begun. So far I've focused on the content, and I was planning on dealing with the conduct issues at the end. However, I've run into a bit of a conundrum relating to article deletion. I've nominated some of the most problematic articles for CSD (a mix of G11 and G12), and I've had 5-10 accepted so far. (I don't have access to a list as I only learned about CSD logging just now.) A few other articles I've tagged (advert, notability, etc.) have been subsequently nominated for AFD by DGG. By the end of the cleanup project I wouldn't be surprised to see 50 articles deleted one way or another.
The trouble is, as these pages are deleted, I lose the ability to gather some of the best evidence of socking. RHaworth has suggested nominating me for RFA but I doubt I have the requisite experience for that. DGG has suggested putting off all deletions until the SPI process is complete. That could certainly be done if necessary but I believe it wouldn't be beneficial to the cleanup effort or the project as a whole. There is also no way for us to stop other editors from nominating pages for deletion. I even made a VPP proposal to allow admins to grant non-admins view-deleted rights but that clearly isn't going anywhere.
Ultimately the question is, do you have any bright ideas for how to get around this problem? --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 20:31, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) Gather the evidence first - link to a diff, an article, whatever. When you then create the SPI after the article is deleted, the admin can still click the now redlink, or link to a no-longer-existent article and be shown the option to view it the panda ₯’ 20:49, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks DP. I'm thinking about this approach but it would seriously delay the cleanup process. We're talking about at least 500 articles, each one created by a separate SPA. I suspect this is the work of a Wiki-PR-type organization with a whole team of individuals. Sorting out who's socking with whom could take ages. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 21:15, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- DrFleischman, this strikes me as an unusual task for an editor to embark on. What prompted your interest in it?--Bbb23 (talk) 22:34, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- Indeed. This unusual contribution history. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 22:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- I don't want to go through all that user's edits. What in particular do you infer from the contributions (with a few diffs please)?--Bbb23 (talk) 23:01, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- The user was an extremely precocious SPA (first edit), editing articles about a handful of affiliated organizations, in what I felt was a promotional way. We got into several content disputes. After a few days of this the user took an abrupt pivot (first edit after pivot here) and started a weird curation project, claiming to have engaged in a "massive re-categorization project" totally unrelated to their prior work. They have done this curation for hundreds and hundred articles now. This would seem to be totally innocuous, but if you look at these articles you'll see they're overwhelmingly promotional in tone, many of them (not all) reading like press releases. There are some eerie similarities in writing style. Look at their histories and you'll see the majority of them were created by separate SPAs fully-formed in those SPAs' very first edits, just like this user's first edit. As I started cleaning up these pages the user first accused me of hounding (my response here), and then started harassing me. (If you want to know more about the harassment I ask that you e-mail me.) I've continued to work on clean-up efforts, undeterred. DGG started piggybacking off me yesterday and first raised the question that I now present to you. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 23:30, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- Okay, I took the one example you gave me (the creation of the talk page for Eagle’s Wings Foundation and followed it through. That article was created by User:Morphseo whose only contributions to Wikipedia were the creation of that article and a related article, The Villa Group Resorts. Schmatica created talk pages for both articles (different kinds, though) and edited both articles. Morphseo has not edited or created any deleted pages. Schematica, OTOH, has edited many, mostly adding or refining the non-profit cats he apparently created and sometimes adding talk pages to the articles. He's also made some gnomish edits. I don't think he's actually created any that have been deleted. I can sort of see where you're going with this, but it's a massive effort even if you were able to look at deleted pages. The trying to tie all the connections together to demonstrate something sanctionable would take you a lot of time. Is there anything you can think of that would be less ambitious, at least as a first effort? You might have enough evidence to tie Schematica and Morphseo together just on what you can see, but I won't predict how a CU or an SPI clerk (even me) would react if you created an investigation.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:29, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
- The user was an extremely precocious SPA (first edit), editing articles about a handful of affiliated organizations, in what I felt was a promotional way. We got into several content disputes. After a few days of this the user took an abrupt pivot (first edit after pivot here) and started a weird curation project, claiming to have engaged in a "massive re-categorization project" totally unrelated to their prior work. They have done this curation for hundreds and hundred articles now. This would seem to be totally innocuous, but if you look at these articles you'll see they're overwhelmingly promotional in tone, many of them (not all) reading like press releases. There are some eerie similarities in writing style. Look at their histories and you'll see the majority of them were created by separate SPAs fully-formed in those SPAs' very first edits, just like this user's first edit. As I started cleaning up these pages the user first accused me of hounding (my response here), and then started harassing me. (If you want to know more about the harassment I ask that you e-mail me.) I've continued to work on clean-up efforts, undeterred. DGG started piggybacking off me yesterday and first raised the question that I now present to you. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 23:30, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- I don't want to go through all that user's edits. What in particular do you infer from the contributions (with a few diffs please)?--Bbb23 (talk) 23:01, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- Indeed. This unusual contribution history. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 22:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- DrFleischman, this strikes me as an unusual task for an editor to embark on. What prompted your interest in it?--Bbb23 (talk) 22:34, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks DP. I'm thinking about this approach but it would seriously delay the cleanup process. We're talking about at least 500 articles, each one created by a separate SPA. I suspect this is the work of a Wiki-PR-type organization with a whole team of individuals. Sorting out who's socking with whom could take ages. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 21:15, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I always appreciate your deep dives and careful analyses. Two reactions:
- "I can sort of see where you're going with this, but it's a massive effort even if you were able to look at deleted pages. The trying to tie all the connections together to demonstrate something sanctionable would take you a lot of time." Yes, this is a huge project and I don't know if this is something I can do all by myself. My hope is that others will come along to help out. (Perhaps an admin can do the SPI work while I focus on the content cleanup.)
- "You might have enough evidence to tie Schematica and Morphseo together just on what you can see, but I won't predict how a CU or an SPI clerk (even me) would react if you created an investigation." I'm not seeking any SPI or sanctions against Schematica, at least at the moment, and I'm not suggesting that Morphseo and Schematica are necessarily socks, or that all of these pages were created by the same individual. What I am suggesting is that these pages may have been created by a coordinated group of individuals, each of whom used socks to hide their tracks. At the end of the day, there might be enough evidence to sanction Schematica or there might not, it's too early to tell.
--Dr. Fleischman (talk) 17:46, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
- Okay, let's go back then to what you were asking for. How about if we start slowly? Your only handicap is the inability to look at deleted pages. I can, for example, userfy a deleted page as long as it's not prohibited by policy, e.g., copyright issues. First, though, you have to identify a user so I can see what's there. It might be a bit tedious, but we can continue this dialog in that fashion. I'm not promising how long I'll continue to do this. It sort of depends on the results you get. I confess it is intriguing, though.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:01, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks, and FYI, I'm working on this and will let you know when I need your help. It may be some time before I need to review deleted page histories. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 20:12, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
arbitrary break (for readability)
- DrFleishchman, you have officially jumped the shark. First of all, I am harassing you? What are you talking about? And it's absolutely absurd that you've interpreted my minor category edits as some sort of massive sock puppet ring. You are hounding me. I've made minor category edits on a lot of really crappy pages. And now you think it's my fault the pages are crappy? I didn't create them, or add anything of substance. Drop the witch hunt. Schematica (talk) 04:49, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
What happened? I mistyped. Linda Tally Smith is a public official. She's a major prosecutor, a public official, which means the public should know about her. I do not know her, nor care. Just was going to post a bunch of stubs about other public officials in Kentucky. So I guess public officials are off limits? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarahrosemc (talk • contribs) 22:44, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I still haven't received any feedback. That was very quick deletion. Just doesn't seem right to me. Accuracy is important, but the mistake was one the talk page, and the only reason you know that her husband is a Judge is because you read the page. She's a prosecutor, which was typed up accurately, and I even put other categories of pages that related to it. Commonwealth's Attorney is an elected position. I do not understand this. This makes no sense at all. There's many public officials in Kentucky with no wikipedia pages. Is that the point? To keep public officials secret? I thought wikipedia is about informing folks? Weird. I feel like this was sexist. Is it because she's a girl? Or because I am? I need a better explanation than the one you gave. You need to say that public officials are off limits, or restore this page. Sarahrosemc (talk) 22:54, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
This user has done this before it seems with other users. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarahrosemc (talk • contribs) 22:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
- I hope you understand that I agree with your desire to see this article deleted. I've removed the speedy basically for IAR, since the creator's clearly confused and ought to be given a fuller chance to see our processes and to understand what we need for an article. I'd be willing to start its AFD, or to let you do it (whichever you prefer), although either way I hope that the deletion rationale can be explained in a newbie-friendly manner. Nyttend (talk) 01:40, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- I think you should start the AfD, Nyttend, because you'll be friendlier than I would be at this point. I'm struggling to accept good faith. To bolster the notability of the first article, she's now created two more articles, one about the person who was convicted and the other about the victim - this is all included in the Smith article, which now makes those links blue instead of red. She also removed the speedy delete tag once from the Smith article after I tagged it. Just so you know, I've just tagged the victim article. I'm holding off tagging the victim article because it actually is probably sufficiently notable to withstand an A7. Thanks for coming here.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:45, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Linda Tally Smith completed. NeilN created a substantially less explanatory nomination for Walter Sartory while I was writing up Smith's. Nyttend (talk) 02:05, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- I think you should start the AfD, Nyttend, because you'll be friendlier than I would be at this point. I'm struggling to accept good faith. To bolster the notability of the first article, she's now created two more articles, one about the person who was convicted and the other about the victim - this is all included in the Smith article, which now makes those links blue instead of red. She also removed the speedy delete tag once from the Smith article after I tagged it. Just so you know, I've just tagged the victim article. I'm holding off tagging the victim article because it actually is probably sufficiently notable to withstand an A7. Thanks for coming here.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:45, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- Sartory's death might warrant an article with sources like this. All the others could be redirected to that. --NeilN talk to me 02:12, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
It's pretty clear the IP and Wazzabee7 are the same editor. 3RRNB, SPI, or just leave it alone? --NeilN talk to me 02:04, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- I've already created a report at AN3 and pointed out the obvious there. I dunno about an SPI. I would file one only if the IPs continue to edit overlapping with Wazzabee7. If they stop, I don't much see the point, but another clerk might have a different take.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:12, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. --NeilN talk to me 02:22, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi Bbb23, Can you move this FARZI page to Farzi per correct caps? currently correct title is protected. Chander 15:30, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
The sockpuppetry is back
Hello, the case you dealt with earlier (over here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/MiG29VN/Archive has been reopened, as the shill has come back with different IP's and older ones, mentioned here [5]. I kindly request you to return, if you can, and help finish the matter for now. Greetings, JamesRussels (talk) 19:27, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- JamesRussels, I apologize for not responding earlier, but things have been a bit hectic for me on- and off-wiki. However, Callanecc ably disposed of your report, so you were in very good hands.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:05, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
"Policy-compliant:"
It's probably not going to be an issue, because it's extremely unlikely that an admin would close an RfC in a way that wasn't compliant with policy, but, hypothetically speaking, no Wikipedia editor should be forced to take any action which violates policy. At least, that's my view. BMK (talk) 22:02, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with all the points you make, but, again, speaking hypothetically, let's say an admin tells you to do x. You say that x violates some policy. The admin says that your interpretation of the policy is incorrect. We then have an impasse. I don't want you to have the ability to refuse based on that. I hope that makes some sense, hypothetically speaking. :-) --Bbb23 (talk) 01:21, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- It does. It's similar to my real-life rule of thumb that it's best to do what the nice policeman tells you to do, whether or not you agree with it or think he or she has the proper authority, and then let a lawyer deal with it later, if it's that serious. (Not that I've ever had to actually use that rule.) BMK (talk) 02:07, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- Heh, unlike most people, when I get stopped by a cop, I barely say anything. For example, a favorite cop question: do you know why I stopped you? It's stupid for people to say "because I was speeding"? Particularly if they're going to contest the ticket. I just hand over my registration, proof of insurance, and answer ordinary questions if they ask, e.g., do you have the time? --Bbb23 (talk) 04:40, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- It does. It's similar to my real-life rule of thumb that it's best to do what the nice policeman tells you to do, whether or not you agree with it or think he or she has the proper authority, and then let a lawyer deal with it later, if it's that serious. (Not that I've ever had to actually use that rule.) BMK (talk) 02:07, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
National Integrated College
Hi. I tagged National Integrated College with CSD A7, but you said it's not allowed and I see that exception now in the rule (though the ref to the huge discussion without summary doesn't do much to explain why). WP:NSCHOOL says it must satisfy "this section" or WP:GNG. Since WP:NSCHOOL is numbered 4.1.1, I take "this section" to mean section 4.1 (WP:NGO) (since there is nothing beyond WP:NSCHOOL in 4.1.1). The school at issue satisfies neither WP:NGO nor WP:GNG. It's an unref'd orphan and I can't find anything other than the usual non-RS stuff with a search. It's unlikely to ever be more than a means of promoting this private business and attractor of non-encyclopedic edits from its teenage students. What do I do with it? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 22:48, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
WP:CSD reverts
Bbb, do you personally object to my addition to Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion P1? Oiyarbepsy (talk) 01:54, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- I've got a better question. Who were you before you created this account?--Bbb23 (talk) 04:49, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- If you've figured it out, then you probably understand why I'm not answering that question. I don't see it as relevant, though, and I don't see the edit I made as controversial. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 14:33, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Anyways, back to the original question... Oiyarbepsy (talk) 03:52, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Nutshell summary
Regarding this comment: the seeming conflict in the enumerated points, which come from the nutshell summary of Wikipedia:Responding to threats of harm, is that point 3 is directed at all editors, so it asks them to contact an admin to have the user blocked, whereas point 4 is directed at administrators, who are then able to exercise their judgment. isaacl (talk) 16:55, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- That's one way of looking at it, but take a look at the body of the essay under "Administrator action". Even though the word "should" is used, it seems to severely limit the discretion.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:00, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- I was only speaking about the conflict you had originally mentioned between points 3 and 4 (you had not written the second comment yet at the time I composed the previous post). I agree that the default expectation is a block for threats towards others (this point came up recently on I believe WP:ANI, where the difference between threats towards others and threats towards oneself was highlighted). isaacl (talk) 17:06, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Clarence Thomas, reliable sources
Excuse me! My sources for Thomas' obsession with porno flicks are the NY Daily News, and CNN itself. How in the world can anyone say these are not reliable sources??? If CNN is not a reliable source, then no source is reliable. Goblinshark17 (talk) 18:22, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- The NY Daily News certainly isn't a reliable source for such a claim about a living person. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:26, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
- How about CNN? Reliable enough for you? Goblinshark17 (talk) 00:43, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
- Deeply controversial claims about living persons normally require multiple reliable sources, for one thing. Also, it really rather depends on what they said and how our article summarises that in conjunction with the other reliable sources that must also be used to reference what this person is notable for.
- So if CNN said "Demiurge1000 is a British lawyer best known for an obsession with pornographic movies", then a Wikipedia article about Demiurge1000 might mention such a thing in such strong terms (though not the informal ones you use here).
- If, on the other hand, and for example, CNN merely reported that someone had hidden a sizeable stash of pornographic material behind some garbage cans where it was subsequently found by the police (as happened to some notable UK news or media or somesuch figure fairly recently), then that would certainly not be sufficient to use the word "obsession" or anything similar, or even perhaps to mention the incident in the Wikipedia article about that person at all. (An exercise for the reader is to check whether the current Wikipedia article does mention it...) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:15, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Sorry about that. I was unaware that there were no pages in the two categories, the user's confirmed or suspected sockpuppets but there is a sockpuppet investigations casepage here. Eyesnore (pc) 00:49, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
- That's not the point. In general, non-administrators should not be tagging editors with sock puppet tags. When there's an investigation, either an admin or a clerk will take care of it. Your tag was highly unconventional as well.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:53, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
- Now I know. So non-admins should not use block-related templates like
{{uw-block}}
or{{sockpuppet}}
unless on experiments. Eyesnore (pc) 01:02, 23 September 2014 (UTC)- If we're going to go into details, it would include admins and SPI clerks, even if they're not admins. I think it's acceptable - or at least not uncommon - to use
{{sockpuppet|username}}
, although I'm not crazy about it. If there's no SPI filed and you think somone is a sock puppet, then you must have a reason. If you do, you should open an SPI. Otherwise, to me, it feels more like a personal attack. You should also not use{{sockpuppeteer}}
. I hope all of this makes some sense to you. Just to be clear, I'm not accusing you of bad faith. It's kind of complicated and not well understood by many users.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:46, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
- If we're going to go into details, it would include admins and SPI clerks, even if they're not admins. I think it's acceptable - or at least not uncommon - to use
- Now I know. So non-admins should not use block-related templates like
Hi
Can you please take a look at the wikilink I posted here ([6])? This is really becoming an increasingly unmanageable situation for those of us in his cross-hairs, due to the sheer amount of time he's devoted to this. DocumentError (talk) 06:45, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Hey
Hi what's the matter, why people are removing information from "Bhumihar" page. If you have any issue lets discuss it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VibrantBabhan (talk • contribs) 07:26, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Check
Ain't Worth The Whiskey check this article for patrolling. What type of tag we should apply to this kind of article.--Owais khursheed (talk) 06:58, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
- If you're referring to speedy tags, it's not subject to speedy deletion.--Bbb23 (talk) 11:50, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Question: I requested a speedy deletion for this page as it is a redirect page so I could create an article for it and will count towards article creation but a user keeps removing it saying it's not a legit reason for a speedy delete. I've done this before but he keeps reverting me saying no. Am I in the wrong on this or is that a legit reason? LADY LOTUS • TALK 11:30, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
- I've never heard of using the tag for that reason, but that doesn't mean it's not done. It's not one of the examples given for G6, but I assume the examples aren't intended to be exhaustive. Why don't you raise the question on WT:CSD?--Bbb23 (talk) 11:40, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Hey Bbb23, the IP 89.138.208.89 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) is abetting the blocked IP user, 93.173.134.213 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) in edit warring. This may be block evasion, and it appears to be so. Could you please look over to see if the IP 89.138.208.89 is a sockpuppet? Thanks, Epicgenius (talk) 01:10, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- And since they seem to be edit warring, I left a message to them. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:29, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. I semi-protected the article for a month. I backed out the section added by the blocked IP. I blocked the latest IP (three so far), and, on an unrelated issue, I added a COI tag to the article because of a user (who is autoconfirmed so will not be prevented from editing the article) with an obvious conflict.--Bbb23 (talk) 05:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Paris
Hi Bbb23, Could you cast your eye over the talk page of the Paris article please? (From an entirely neutral point of view, obviously). There is a lot of suspicious editing activity going on, with some POV pushers whose editing only seems to become active when the question of the page's main image is raised. Historically there has been meat puppeting going on, traced back to a forum on a skyscraper website (which is part of there discussion on the page). I am becoming increasingly bored (but hugely irritated) by a series of these suspicious editors who are very quick to throw some very unfounded ownership accusations out (on an article I have only edited 13 times, and where I am trying to discuss possible changes to the images). I have very strong suspicions that meat puppeting (or socking) is going on, although there is no evidence of this (having been pulled up on this before, I suspect they have changed their modus operandi to avoid detection this time round). The article is locked (following a request from me to do so, given the edit warring), and I have filed at 3RR against one of the editors who has reverted five times in 40(ish) hours, despite numerous requests for a consensus to develop on the talk page before any changes take place. There are five live threads on this topic on the talk page at the moment:
- 5 Composite image or the Eiffel Tower-La Défense
- 6 A cat then?
- 7 Please leave out Tour Montparnasse from montage
- 8 When a discussion is not going 'your way', just deny that it exists!
- 9 Eiffel Tower image
If you are able to have a look, and perhaps to curtail some of the current excesses (of which I am know I am also guilty), it can only be for the best. Thanks – SchroCat (talk) 11:30, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for your earlier comments on the page. I thought that may curb some of the excesses, but it appears that some are still intent on unfounded attacks. - SchroCat (talk) 14:12, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- and again! These constant lies and attacks are intolerable, and the problem is that if I react to them in a blast of solid Anglo-Saxon, I'm the one who will face censure, and not the editor who is causing this particular issue. - SchroCat (talk) 14:35, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- oh, good grief! - SchroCat (talk) 14:47, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Uninvolved suggestion : Have each participant put together a single image or montage that they think best represents Paris. Accompany this with a SHORT reasoning behind the selection of the images (and not commenting about why other's images are inappropriate). Make an RFC for people to choose between them, or provide comments on them. Neutrally advertise the RFC in the relevant noticeboards and wikiprojects, and let outside opinions carry the day. While historical participants of this debate are of course allowed to provide a !vote and reasoning, they should not dominate the discussion and try to convince every participant of their view, as that will actually discourage wider input. Gaijin42 (talk) 15:29, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Given this lot of edits when trying to move things in a more constructive direction, I'm out of the monumental clusterfuck of a talk page. It seems that too many overly-entrenched opinions are not going to get to any form of agreement over this. I'm monumentally pissed off with meat puppets, (and yes, I stand by that accusation, given all that happened last time, and the duck-like behaviour this time), incivility, stupid insults and lack of objectivity. I'm out, and without major admin oversight this utter abomination will continue to fester and flare up continually. Good luck looking at it, although I have been disappointed with the admin oversight on the page so far, despite requests for help at 3RR (reported 23 hours ago and no-one has grasped the nettle to do anything), and the edit warring after your warning (you may have left a warning on Metropolitan's page, but the inflammatory, uncivil and untruthful heading he warred to put back in there is still present – you may no think it was an issue, but it is pissing people off monumentally, and does not help calm discussion on the talk page.
- I see the whole fucking mess is now at ANI (in two separate threads). If I can bring myself to comment about the, quite frankly, idiotic behaviour on the page, I may do, but this should have been dealt with by numerous admins some time ago. I appreciate that this is not your fault and that I am venting spleen in the wrong direction, but considering I went through so many different admin channels to get some eyes on the stupidity (all of my attempts referring to each other, to avoid accusations of forum shopping), that I am hugely, monumentally and utterly pissed off that it has ended up in such a fucking mess. I am moving inevitably towards the conclusion that for all its benefits, Wikipedia is too dysfunctional to operate properly. Or that there are too few decent admins able to stand up and take action. Or that it's too easy to use meat puppets, organise through emails an attack on a talk page, and game the system. Or all of the above. I have no doubt that you or someone else will be tempted to block or ban me based on what I honestly believe has happened here (based on the known, proven history of those involved and WP:DUCK), but I realise that I no longer give a flying fuck what the administrative process of such a broken system may bring about. I'll drop a link to this onto the ANI threads, as I says all I want to say on this. - SchroCat (talk) 20:59, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Speedy deletion edits again
Bbb, I guess I'm asking a second time, did you personally disagree with my edit, putting redirect-to-article in the speedy deletion non-criteria? There are zero pages on Wikipedia that require consensus for every edit, so since you reverted, that means you object, and I'd like to know your objection. Being discussed here: Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion#List this on non-criteria Oiyarbepsy (talk) 14:33, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
ThePromenader
Hello. I've just discovered this posted by User:ThePromenader in the administrators' noticeboard: [7]. I'm at a loss for words really. Personal attacks, insinuations, unsubstantiated claims. Not a single shred of evidence that I can discuss. You told the editors in the Paris talk page that: "If you don't have enough evidence, then stop making the accusations in the first instance because, in that context, they constitute personal attacks." And now this, coming from someone who must have read your message, since he's an active member of the Paris talk page. Der Statistiker (talk) 20:15, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
ANI
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Jeppiz (talk) 20:41, 25 September 2014 (UTC)