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:::No idea why some folks feel the need to be so crude and insulting. In Grawp's case, he's a well known sck/vandal who does that to anyone who happens to stumble on one of his vandalism runs and cleans up behind him. The actual editors, well, guess they just lose their tempers or are unable to think and post calmly. And some, of course, think there is nothing wrong with such language and insulting, which makes you wonder about society as a whole. I've lost my temper a few times in discussions and even thrown out some mildly uncivil comments, but glad to say I still manage to avoid descending to such low level, disgusting vulgarity. It is the one major drawback of Wikipedia...the more active and visible you are, the more likely you get attacked, your user page vandalized, etc and there really are few protections available. Even the cyber stalkers are allowed to harass anyone they want if they occasionally do a good edit now and then, while the victims are blamed for not "working together." It would make an interesting fictional piece to write a novel set in a town that runs similar to how Wikipedia does sometime. :P In the end, I just tell the new folks that my first piece of advice to them is to have a thick skin, or this isn't the place for them. Most insults I can ignore, a few (that Grawps) a seek to have removed or will pursue action on, in the case of actual editors and not socks. In the end, though, I shrug it off and instead pity those who lead such lackluster lives that they must seek entertainment by acting in such ways.-- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] '''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 03:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC) |
:::No idea why some folks feel the need to be so crude and insulting. In Grawp's case, he's a well known sck/vandal who does that to anyone who happens to stumble on one of his vandalism runs and cleans up behind him. The actual editors, well, guess they just lose their tempers or are unable to think and post calmly. And some, of course, think there is nothing wrong with such language and insulting, which makes you wonder about society as a whole. I've lost my temper a few times in discussions and even thrown out some mildly uncivil comments, but glad to say I still manage to avoid descending to such low level, disgusting vulgarity. It is the one major drawback of Wikipedia...the more active and visible you are, the more likely you get attacked, your user page vandalized, etc and there really are few protections available. Even the cyber stalkers are allowed to harass anyone they want if they occasionally do a good edit now and then, while the victims are blamed for not "working together." It would make an interesting fictional piece to write a novel set in a town that runs similar to how Wikipedia does sometime. :P In the end, I just tell the new folks that my first piece of advice to them is to have a thick skin, or this isn't the place for them. Most insults I can ignore, a few (that Grawps) a seek to have removed or will pursue action on, in the case of actual editors and not socks. In the end, though, I shrug it off and instead pity those who lead such lackluster lives that they must seek entertainment by acting in such ways.-- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] '''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 03:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC) |
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::::That's kinda sad, I'm suprised I haven't been vandalised once. Which is kinda weird considering everyone at ANN thinks i'm stupid, and I could imagine that many of them go to Wikipedia. To me, they seem like the kinda people that would be vandlising pages n' stuff. And i'm pretty well known on the internet, mostly for my strong hatred of Cartoon Network. :D – [[User:Jump Guru|'''<span style="color: blue;">J U M P</span> <span style="color: magenta;">G U R U</span>''']] [[User talk:Jump Guru|@]]<small><sup>[[Special:Contributions/Jump Guru|Wikipedia]], the free encyclopedia</sup></small> 05:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC) |
::::That's kinda sad, I'm suprised I haven't been vandalised once. Which is kinda weird considering everyone at ANN thinks i'm stupid, and I could imagine that many of them go to Wikipedia. To me, they seem like the kinda people that would be vandlising pages n' stuff. And i'm pretty well known on the internet, mostly for my strong hatred of Cartoon Network. :D – [[User:Jump Guru|'''<span style="color: blue;">J U M P</span> <span style="color: magenta;">G U R U</span>''']] [[User talk:Jump Guru|@]]<small><sup>[[Special:Contributions/Jump Guru|Wikipedia]], the free encyclopedia</sup></small> 05:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC) |
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{{award2|image=Purple Star.png|topic=The Purple Barnstar|text=I hereby award you this '''[[Wikipedia:Personal user awards#Spreading_kindness|Purple star]]''' as I have seen the abuse and vandalism your userpage has gone through during your time on Wikipedia. I commend you on your patience, civility and endurance. <font face="Brush Script MT" size="4">[[User:G.A.S|G.A.S]] </font> 06:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)}} |
Revision as of 06:04, 21 July 2008
I prefer to reply to comments on the page they were left, so if I left a comment on your page, reply there it is on my watch list. If you leave a comment here, watch this page until the discussion is done as I will only leave replies here. Comments which I find to be uncivil, full of vulgarities, an attempt flame baiting, or that are are excessively rude may be deleted without response. Comments from harassing editors or wikistalkers will also be summarily removed without response. If I choose not to answer, that's my right, don't keep putting it back. I'll just delete and get annoyed at you.
Are you here about an edit I made? You may want to check my user page first to get some general info on some common questions about edits I make. Here are some quick links as well:
- Explain the assessment you made on this TV or film article
- Why did you give X article Y tag(s)?
- Why did you change the reflist tag in an article to the references one, or visa versa?
- What do you mean you're "wikibonked"?
Barnstar
I don't know how I could ever thank you. : ) You have tought me so much, and thanks for the barnstar! ; ) I wish there was more I could say. – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 21:51, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- Quite welcome, and you've earned it :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:56, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- That's great! Together I believe we can make some great pages. ; ) – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 22:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
On one of your userboxes it says that you are a webmaster. What website do you work for? Is it Wikipedia, or is that just a pastime? – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 04:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is a hobby. I'm a web application developer for one of the largest state agencies in Texas . I also have a few personal websites and used to do freelance stuff through my own business. :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 04:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- Awesome, what's your business? I make horror manga, I'm still waiting to get discovered by a company. My main manga series is Fatal Moon. – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 05:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC) P.S. Glad Wikipedia is a hobby, I was worried that I was interfearing in your job... : (
- It was a freelance web development and hosting business. I pretty much shut it down a little over a year ago. Got tired of dealing with the business side and non-paying clients and all. :) And no worries, Wikipedia is a hobby, though sometimes I start to wonder if it isn't a second job as much time as I spend here LOL. Still, its fun and it lets me enjoy some of my favorite loves: reading, researching, and writing, without the same stress and pressure as my fiction writing does. I've wanted to do my own manga, but alas, I am not an artist when it comes to drawing people (I make decent landscapes and abstracts though). I do like to write fiction though, and join in the insanity that is NaNoWriMo each year :D -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- What was your manga idea? My manga is about the aftermath of the apocalypse, everyone that has not been raptured gets sent to a moon controlled by demonic superhumans sent to them by the anti-christ, and everyone has to prove themselves worthy and kill the anti-christ. – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 23:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- Something of a shojo piece, with a high school senior coming home from school to find an injuried demon lying in her backyard. He left the demon world because his little brother, whom he loves, has turned against him and tried to kill him. She tends his wounds and lets him stay with her (she lives alone). She has a bad heart, due to a tragic event in her past, and has been told by doctor's won't live till graduation. They all in love while he hides in the human world in hope his brother will come to his senses and her death comes closer with each passing day. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Interesting story. – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 01:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah...have plot twists figured for it, and other chars (of course). May eventually write a manga-inspired novel for it (new term!) :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- It would be a sucky story without other characters and contrast, so that's essential. It could be a light novel, and you could hire a shojo artist. Just made a new series actually, about a exorcist who has a rare disease called Blak, that comes from being exposed to many evil entities to the point where your eyes a pitch black and you are blind to everything exept ghosts, spirits, etc. Since demons are attracked to human fear (Blak also causes you to be totally valiant against demons), he brings a woman named Lisa, who is a professional spirit channeler. The series is highly infuenced by A Haunting. – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 01:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- What's some of the novels you wrote? – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 02:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds like an interesting story (with a touch of Pitch Black influence? :D So far I haven't finished any of them. Two I've worked on most in the last few years are The Guardian, a fantasy/dramatic romance piece that is intended to span at least two books. It follows a princess, her prince, and their two guardians, for about 10 years of their lives as relatively blissful happiness is torn apart by betrayal and evil. Plenty of the good vs evil themes, with unicorns, dragons, talking animals, dinosaurs. :P The second, Enslaved Heart is a...hmmm...sort of a Christian Romance, but more than that. Its set in a future world in which the wealthy have decided to aid the "poor" by instituting a new form of slavery, in which those who don't make enough are fair game to be enslaved for manual labor. The rest I've started over the years are various romantic suspense works, though not the silly Harlequin things, but the fuller, longer, I refuse to use silly language novels :D -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 02:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- You're a really good author : ), what's your favorite manga or novel? Mine are Blue Heaven by Tsutomu Takahashi (and all the rest of his manga), Yu-Gi-Oh! (only the first series), D.Gray-man, Embalming -The Another Tale of Frankenstein-, Tista, Edomae Sushi Kirara no Shigoto (from Super Jump), Jin -Hitoshi- (from Super Jump), Cloth Road, Barefoot Gen, Roman (manga adaption of Sound Horizon rock opera), Gantz, Naruto, Bleach, Happy World! (from Ultra Jump), and Kōkoku no Shugosha. :D – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 03:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Doh, that's a much harder one to answer. I have over 500 manga volumes in my collection alone (and over 800 books total). If I were to try to limit it though, for manga I'd have to go with Marmalade Boy, Sailor Moon, Mars, Cardcaptor Sakura, From Far Away, and Rurouni Kenshin, which are all ones I've read over and over (Mars I literally re-read every month). For novels, it more depends on my mood, but for the ones I've read an insane number of times: Black Beauty, Little Women, Jurassic Park, and Lad: A Dog (and the rest of Albert Payson Terhune's dog novels), Watership Down, and Shades of Twilight. I have a hard time choosing a favorite anything :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 03:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I have over 600 manga in my collection, plus the magazines over 700. :P Anyway, I'm going on vacation, it's gonna be three days, so the coversation is not over! Plese keep that in mind. : ) Bye. – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 16:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Have a good vacation :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Random break
Heh...heh....I decided to bring my computer. ^_^ Also, something I forgot to say (or type :P), the series BLΛK♦EXORCIST (the name of the series I mentioned earlier), is a series of one-shots, one of it's main uniquities* is the fact that you don't know what the heck the exorcist guy did to the very end. Although, a short paragraph explains what happened at the last page. – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 05:47, 18 July 2008 (UTC) *I don't know if that's a word or not, but it works.
- LOL, I can't go on vacation without my computer. I'm too addicted to it. (and hey, I make up words all the time) :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 12:08, July 18, 2008 (UTC)
- I may not be able to respond as quickly, so far it's great, I just went to SeaWorld (San Diego), which was great exept for the wasted women sitting in front of me at the Shamu show. -_- Tomorrow i'm going to a wedding, which is the reason I went to San Diego in the first place. – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 04:57, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Cool! I have been to Sea World in San Antonio once. I went while it wasn't too crowded, so it was fun :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, it was fun. : ) I saw something very bizarre, a totally white English kid wearing a Dokonjo Gaeru T-shirt, a extremely obscure Weekly Jump series. O_o It was sorta odd.... – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 05:14, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- LOL, no, weird was being in Target one day and seeing this like 50 year old guy who looked like he might live in a trailer park walking in front of me wearing the t-shirt that came in the Blood+ box set! :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Both of those are wierd, but Dokonjo Gaeru was from the 1960s, I can't even imagine a Japanese kid wearing that shirt. I didn't even know they would even make a shirt of that series, he was just a average kid with his mom at SeaWorld. *_O i would ask the kid where he got the shirt....but I can imagine it would be really creepy to have some random guy walk up to him and say, "HEEEEEEEeeeeeeyyyyy....where'd you get that nice Dokonjo Gaeru T Shir—{gets slapped in the face with mom's perse}. That wasn't even released in america! But the 50-year old dude sounds about just as weird... – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 05:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Little questions
- Does the plot in a manga series need ref?
- Do you mind if I request a copyedit for Himura Kenshin?
See you--Tintor2 (talk) 00:32, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- So long as it is pure plot summary, it doesn't need a ref in the main article's plot section nor in chapter summaries in the chapter list. When making specific statements about a character or event in other parts of the main article, in the list of characters, etc, then a reference is needed. Interpretive statements also need referencing. And not at all, it needs a copyedit before it can be GA. :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 02:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I meant the character not the series about the copy-edit request.Tintor2 (talk) 15:44, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, I know :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 15:34, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I forgot, good luck with Tokyo Mew Mew ^_^.Tintor2 (talk) 19:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks :) Not feeling too hopeful though. So far several comments, but none actually changing to support (or even oppose) after the comments have been addressed. :( -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Hey Collectonian, could you give a little advice to fix the lead of Fullmetal Alchemist? I'm out of ideas.Tintor2 (talk) 19:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Looks good to me, removing the tag. :)-- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
MERGERS
Hey. I just recently proposed a merge of Son Goten, Trunks, his future counterpart, and Pan. I also proposed a merge of several Yu-Gi-Oh characters. Any help with this is greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch! :3 ZeroGiga (talk) 18:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Post Oak Mall work
Brilliant! Everything is updated and awesome again! A few questions remain however:
1) Sears relocated from Manor East Mall? How? There wasn't even a space for Sears in Manor East Mall, unless that's where the Wal-Mart was. I've always heard Sears relocated from downtown.
2) Wasn't the "dandelion fountain" that was shaped like a tree...this one? If so, if you look at the placement of the skylight and the store in the background, and comparing that to the old 1982 mall directory, you would see that it was in front of Foley's.
3) According to the official fact sheet, the mall was renovated in 1994. If the ceilings already existed and all, what did they do?
4) The kid's play area opened in 2002 or so, but it isn't mentioned on the page. Perhaps you could get that as well?
5) I made some edits to the food court section. Tell me what you think. Remember, it's six now, because Corn Dog 7 closed. TheListUpdater (talk) 17:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'll double check the Eagle archives for that time, but yes the source specifically said it moved from Manor East Mall. Manor East isn't exactly a tiny mall, despite its near death a few years ago :-P For the fountain, I used the description from the Eagle, including the note on it's location. The picture in the archive reels was too obfuscated to compare to that one though. The mall has been renovated a few times, I believe. Will have to check the archives on what was done in 1994. I know the first reno, 3 years after it opened, was to complete the mall and add the additional store space. For the kid's play area, need a source. I have a huge list of Eagle articles on Post Oak to check at the library. It spans from the year before it opened through I believe two years after. For beyond that, if you know the month it opened, it would help as I'd have to check the entire month/year reel to find articles. Silly Eagle only has a partial archive index :( -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I actually saw, in the 25th anniversary thing, they had the play area opening date listed. Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture. Manor East Mall IS dead, the only remnant of the original mall is the Bealls/Jo-Ann building, everything else was torn down except for Hastings, which opened later. I never went inside Manor East except once, and it was mostly an empty corridor with a few windows and benches...everything was blue. I tried to ask around on Houstonarchitecture.info forums but only got a few dinky exterior pictures, which was a tiny comfort. TheListUpdater (talk) 19:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Um, have you not been around lately? Manor East has been completely renovated and expanded. Its now an outside strip mall, but it is very much revitalized with the new HEB, multiple restaurants (including the always on every corner Starbucks), a bank, the must have liquor store, etc. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Well, that's kind of what I meant. It's not really a "mall" anymore at all. Of course there's an H-E-B, a Bealls, a Jo-Ann, and stuff. The wording was confusing, but what I meant was the building was torn down (for the strip center) only leaving Jo-Ann/Bealls and Hastings and the Theatre Co. The rest of the land was turned into a new Family Dollar, Baskin's, and H-E-B. Ever noticed that most of the malls on deadmalls.com have been redeveloped into a thriving strip center? Manor East Mall is no exception. It was torn down circa 2003, and my main point was that I didn't really know the interior decor or layout of the old mall. From what I can remember, it must have been an "L", with Montgomery Ward and Wal-Mart on the corners and Bealls at the angle. Hastings was "bolted on" to Wards. Yeah. Something like that. TheListUpdater (talk) 20:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- According to HAIF, the Sears was in Townshire Shopping Center, the one where Hurricane Harry's and other stores are. The Sears then became a hardware store then a Blinn satellite class center then Albertson's. Townshire also had a cinema in the early days. I'm really tempted to agree to the Townshire Shopping Center, but it doesn't seem to be a pressing issue, so I won't push it. Two things, however: regarding the play area, since it happened in the recent past, wouldn't it be easier to just ask the mall themselves when it opened? Secondly, I'd like to use the {{talkback}} template for my user talk page, but I don't exactly know how to use it. Do I just put {{talkback|TheListUpdater}} on my user talk page and it will do the rest, or is there more to it than that? TheListUpdater (talk) 13:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- HAIF? Yes, I do remember Townshire having a cinema. Some friends and I were discussing it the other day, while talking about the theater at the mall (they both remembered it, BTW :P). For the play area, we can ask them, but they aren't a usable source so would still need to find an actually source for it. For talkback, you don't put it on your talk page. You put it on the other person's talk page to let them know you have replied to your message on your talk page :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:22, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- HAIF stands for Houston Architecture dot Info Forums. link. Mostly, the forum is on Houston stuff, but there's a page on BCS too. Check it out. You can see a few threads I made, trying to get backup or lack thereof on the things on the mall's Wikipedia page. For the Sears issue, however, I honestly really don't know, but like I said, I think Manor East Mall would've been a lot more noteworthy if it had included JCPenney, Montgomery Ward, AND Sears in the mid-70s (Rolling Acres Mall was one of the first to claim that). Maybe Manor East just had something like their "Appliance Dealer" stores that they have in smaller markets. A Manor East Mall article would be an interesting topic to pursue, though...TheListUpdater (talk) 17:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Ah, yeah, I've browsed there sometimes. Forum postings aren't reliable sources, though, so while they may offer pointers to places to look for info, anything there isn't useful. I have been considering doing a Manor East Mall article, but want to finish Post Oak first before I go off into another research arena, particularly as I suspect Manor East research would require a trip to Carnegie :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 17:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- HAIF stands for Houston Architecture dot Info Forums. link. Mostly, the forum is on Houston stuff, but there's a page on BCS too. Check it out. You can see a few threads I made, trying to get backup or lack thereof on the things on the mall's Wikipedia page. For the Sears issue, however, I honestly really don't know, but like I said, I think Manor East Mall would've been a lot more noteworthy if it had included JCPenney, Montgomery Ward, AND Sears in the mid-70s (Rolling Acres Mall was one of the first to claim that). Maybe Manor East just had something like their "Appliance Dealer" stores that they have in smaller markets. A Manor East Mall article would be an interesting topic to pursue, though...TheListUpdater (talk) 17:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- HAIF? Yes, I do remember Townshire having a cinema. Some friends and I were discussing it the other day, while talking about the theater at the mall (they both remembered it, BTW :P). For the play area, we can ask them, but they aren't a usable source so would still need to find an actually source for it. For talkback, you don't put it on your talk page. You put it on the other person's talk page to let them know you have replied to your message on your talk page :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:22, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- According to HAIF, the Sears was in Townshire Shopping Center, the one where Hurricane Harry's and other stores are. The Sears then became a hardware store then a Blinn satellite class center then Albertson's. Townshire also had a cinema in the early days. I'm really tempted to agree to the Townshire Shopping Center, but it doesn't seem to be a pressing issue, so I won't push it. Two things, however: regarding the play area, since it happened in the recent past, wouldn't it be easier to just ask the mall themselves when it opened? Secondly, I'd like to use the {{talkback}} template for my user talk page, but I don't exactly know how to use it. Do I just put {{talkback|TheListUpdater}} on my user talk page and it will do the rest, or is there more to it than that? TheListUpdater (talk) 13:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Well, that's kind of what I meant. It's not really a "mall" anymore at all. Of course there's an H-E-B, a Bealls, a Jo-Ann, and stuff. The wording was confusing, but what I meant was the building was torn down (for the strip center) only leaving Jo-Ann/Bealls and Hastings and the Theatre Co. The rest of the land was turned into a new Family Dollar, Baskin's, and H-E-B. Ever noticed that most of the malls on deadmalls.com have been redeveloped into a thriving strip center? Manor East Mall is no exception. It was torn down circa 2003, and my main point was that I didn't really know the interior decor or layout of the old mall. From what I can remember, it must have been an "L", with Montgomery Ward and Wal-Mart on the corners and Bealls at the angle. Hastings was "bolted on" to Wards. Yeah. Something like that. TheListUpdater (talk) 20:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Um, have you not been around lately? Manor East has been completely renovated and expanded. Its now an outside strip mall, but it is very much revitalized with the new HEB, multiple restaurants (including the always on every corner Starbucks), a bank, the must have liquor store, etc. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I actually saw, in the 25th anniversary thing, they had the play area opening date listed. Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture. Manor East Mall IS dead, the only remnant of the original mall is the Bealls/Jo-Ann building, everything else was torn down except for Hastings, which opened later. I never went inside Manor East except once, and it was mostly an empty corridor with a few windows and benches...everything was blue. I tried to ask around on Houstonarchitecture.info forums but only got a few dinky exterior pictures, which was a tiny comfort. TheListUpdater (talk) 19:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
86.44.20.40
Is this really Abtract? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I think it is. I wouldn't put it past him, particularly with said IP bugging LessHeard vanU to review his block under the same sort of fuzzy logic Abtract likes to use to defend himself. But would have to do a check user to know for sure, and not worth the effort. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:57, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- We should wait and see if he starts to edit pages that Abtract touched. Or is this one of those hopping ips? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yep, pretty much. He is a hopping one, though, if his claims of being the same IP who shoved an opinion in the RfC is valid (which is likely since that IP is 86.44.28.52). Actually I think Abtract's base IP is recorded somewhere, from one of his many blocks, but not sure where at the moment. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Is there any likelihood of either of you requesting a WP:SSP check? I am not happy with the low turnout for my block review request, even though it seems most do not support an immediate unblock, but the question of the ips being Abtract has been raised when I tried to garner further review. I recognise that there is little benefit in you two wanting to open such a report if Abtract were to remain indef'd, but I would like to know your thinking on this. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm inclined to say not to bother. Even if it is Abtract, I don't think he actually said anything accurate or of value enough to be worth the effort. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Would it help if we tagged the ip user pages with {{ipsock}} and put a {{sockpuppeteer}} on Abtract's account? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Hmmm...probably not. There isn't enough evidence one way or the other. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Speedy deletion of Alisa Apps
I've given two different references from Reuters. I've given another two references and official website as external links. I think two different articles on Reuters are more than enough for notability of that person. Why this article has deleted, Would you please inform me? Thank you. Tanvir che (talk) 18:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- The Reuters "references" were press releases from Apps herself and her representatives. They do not count towards notability at all. Coverage of a person must be significant and from reliable, third party sources, not the person themselves. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks, I'll try later with different sources. Tanvir che (talk) 18:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Escaflowne edit
I noticed that you undid the chance I made to Dornkirk's entry in the characters page. I was wondering why.
Now I, having no experience in user talk will try to sign this.
84.192.230.63 (talk) 19:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Because it is unsourced and personal interpretation, which violates WP:OR. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:22, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- If I were to add several references to the parts of the tv series where they refer to isaac newton, to Dornkirk's previous life and his obsession with this force that is similar to gravity...would that suffice? Or would it be necessary to obtain a quote from one of the people who worked on The Vision of Escaflowne? 84.192.230.63 (talk) 19:45, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- No, because the series never specifically says he is Isaac Newton, they only hint. A reliable source is required. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Well, two remaining questions before I'll stop bothering you then. What would be considered a reliable source? From what point would hints be explicit enough for people to say that character X is so and so on wikipedia? --84.192.230.63 (talk) 20:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- A reliable source would be a book discussing the series, newspaper articles, papers, production materials, and acceptable websites (such as ANN, AoD, etc - not fansites). For explicit enough, someone would have to specifically say Dornkirk is Sir Isaac Newton (not, they wonder if he is, think he is, etc, but just is). -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Well then, ANN's entry on the vision of escaflowne contains the following: "Various clues through out the series hint that Emperor Dornkirk is actually Issac Newton". Would it be okay to change the entry on Dornkirk and add that it is hinted that he might be sir Isaac Newton if I add a reference to ANN's entry on the vision on escaflowne? -- 84.192.230.63 (talk) 20:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- The trivia section of ANN entries are not RS because they are user submitted. Sorry, I should have specified ANN news items and reviews. Only the credits and basic info in ANN encyclopedia entries are considered reliable, but not trivia and notes. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Apparently, AoD also has a reviewer hinting that Dornkirk is Newton, but that doesn't qualify because it too is personal interpretation. Alternatively, tvtropes mentions it on several pages. Whether that is considered good enough is debatable. Tvtropes of course wants to list and discuss the tropes in the vision of escaflowne. Dornkirk obviously qualifies for "beethoven was an alien spy". As you might have guessed, their entry on this is also generated by users, thus personal interpretation. However, Tvtropes do pursuit listing correct information and the content of their pages are reviewed, second guessed and tested to being correct. Regardless of the validity of Tvtropes, would just editing Dornkirk's entry with the hint be wrong at all? It is true that it is hinted, even if it is never confirmed by anyone on the project for obvious reasons. If not, I fear that we would need to delete all hints in a show that are never explicitly confirmed by the creator or the characters in the show as a direct consequence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.192.230.63 (talk) 21:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- TVtropes is not a reliable source. The hints are too open to interpretation in this case to note without other sources. Its like the ending of Wolf's Rain. People want to call it modern Tokyo, but nothing in the ending every says anything of the sort. There aren't any words at all. Even if it looks like Tokyo, we can't call it modern tokyo without a source. Can you give me the link to the AoD review you found? AoD reviews are valid, reliable sources as long as they are actually AoD reviews and not those Mania.com things :P. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:17, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- It is a mania.com review, which is why I didn't attribute much importance to it. regardless, here you are: http://www.mania.com/escaflowne-vol-8_article_73573.html . Anyways, should I just make the change saying that it is hinted that Dornkirk might be Isaac Newton, as it is undeniable that it is hinted even if it is never explicitly confirmed in or out the series? Such a hint is never confirmed anyways, just like they will never explicitly and irrefutably prove that Suzumiya Haruhi is warping reality. -- 84.192.230.63 (talk) 21:39, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- No, that is a regular AoD review, so it is usable, but unfortunately the suggestion is so brief its not very useful. And no, hinted at is basically interpretation. Does anyone every actually say the name Sir Isaac Newton? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- In episode 24, the teacher starts talking about Newton and his contributions to science(in particular gravity of course), and then continues by saying that Newton was actually also interested in alchemy and magic and tried researching those. This is followed by a scene in which the sorcerers of Zaibach are talking with Isaac about gravity in another sense. On top of that, Dornkirk references that what he is doing on Gaea is just like what he tried to do on earth with the concept of the philosopher's stone...one of the topics of Isaac newton's occult research. As icing to this, Atlantis itself was also a subject studied by Newton. -- 84.192.230.63 (talk) 22:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, but on one ever actually says Newton's name n specific connection to Dornkirk, nor was Newton the only one to research any (or all)) of those things. Without a more concrete source, it would almost be like attempting to say that Dornkirk and Newton are connected to Fullmetal Alchemist through Escaflowne because they both have alchemy with occult research and symbolism, and both deal with a philosopher's stone at some point. Now, do I think Dornkirk was supposed to be Newton transported to Gaea? Most likely, but one could easily argue that he could have been an assistant to Newton, or a follower behind Newton's research. As we ourselves are not reliable sources, we must turn to other reliable sources that clearly follow this line of thinking that it can then be sourced to. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry
Sorry you can't just copyright a list. Please allow me to add a sentence or two. Perhaps you have not heard of the Linnean Society? I am not a dog (talk) 20:39, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Didn't tag it for CSD for copyright violation, but for having not context. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Please explain yourself. It is a medal of the Linnean Society. Please do not try to delete such things. It can be considered vandalism. I am not a dog (talk) 20:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- No, it isn't vandalism at all to tag an article for deletion with it has no context. Being a medal of the society is meaningless when that is all it says. Stop removing CSD templates from your own articles, or that will be considered disruptive and vandalism. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I decline to block User:I am not a dog on the grounds that your deletion tags are also being removed by other editors. I'm looking into this a little more. Hiberniantears (talk) 21:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Other editors are allowed to decline a CSD, admin or non-admin. He, however, should not have removed them himself as per the CSD message and the numerous warnings left. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:02, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- This is true, but given that the tags were not accurate, I am disinclined to block someone who is creating valid articles. It is essentially blocking someone on a technicality, and since blocks are preventive, rather than punitive, the editor should be engaged on this behavior, rather than edit warring with him, and then blocking him. Hiberniantears (talk) 21:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- I disagree that the tags were not accurate. Don't see any notability in those people at all, as I have noted on his talk page. And he was engaged, above. He stopped responding and restarted removing the tags as vandalism instead. I'm not the only editor who reverted his tag removals. Don't see how making a bunch of one line articles is making valid articles, but ah well. Someone else has now prodded one of the articles, so at least I'm not the only one who thinks it lacks notability. I also see an uninvolved editor also reported him to AIV, but it was removed as an "edit war." -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:09, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- It is certainly an edit war now, that is for certain. The question is not whether the article will be deleted, but whether it should be speedy deleted, which as an admin who speedy deletes often, still has to be done carefully. There is a difference between an underdeveloped article, and one that is just not worth keeping. In the spirit of collaboration, we should seek to improve the one line articles. As you note, the editor is not behaving in a calm manner, and that is hurting his cause, but we need to avoid goading him at the same time. Hiberniantears (talk) 21:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm pretty much ignoring him now. Can, however, anything be done about DuncanHill's running around and making accusations of collusion and personal attacks? In the AfD, he's accused Diligent Terrier of making a bad faith nom and "acting as a tag-team" with me (and now he's accusing all commenters in the AfD of meatpuppetry!). His messages on I am not a dog's talk page haven't been very civil either. Considering he has no personal vested interest in any of these articles, his reaction seems rather over the top... -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for you help. I'll look into the situation with DuncanHill, but I'm about to have dinner with the Mrs, so it will be a while. If you need rapid resolution, you can always take it to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Hiberniantears (talk) 22:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- No super rush. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
AfD nomination of Darwin-Wallace Medal
An article that you have been involved in editing, Darwin-Wallace Medal, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Darwin-Wallace Medal. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? - Diligent Terrier (and friends) 21:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Polishing up a lead section
I was wondering if you could help me polish up the opening for List of Futari Ecchi chapters. I think I've included most of what I need, but I'm not very good at making it sound good. I'm best at making lists. Grapeofdeath (talk) 05:10, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Sure, I'll give it a going over (though you'll want a real copy editor to give it some final tweaking if you plan to go for FLC ;) ). BTW, don't forget that book and magazine titles should always be italicized. :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:18, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you so very much. It looks so much better. I wasn't tryng to get it anywhere near FLC, but I did want to make sure it was understandable, especially with all the unnumbered chapters and the rearranged order. This is definitely the most complicated list I've put together so far. I had to buy many magazines to get all the correct numbers. :P Grapeofdeath (talk) 06:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- No prob and you certainly made a good start :) For future work, you may want to add in the romanization of the titles to the nihongo template, and the cover characters for each volume of it changes a lot. Not sure if that particularly one would benefit from summaries or not, with the chapters not really flowing much. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'll eventually have the romanizations done, it's just taking a long time. So many... And the same person is on each cover, so I wasn't sure if I should bother with it. Grapeofdeath (talk) 06:23, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Nah, if its just the same person, no need to include :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:39, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Hohenheim
I really hate being rude, and forgive me if replying to your edits has been of any annoiance. My simple synopsis needs no reference. The Full Metal Alchemist Characters article is crammed with unsourced descriptions, some of which I believe are quite dubious. Does logic not tell you that the alchemist Hohenheim from Full Metal Alchemist is based on one of the most renowned alchemists on planet Earth, who also goes by the same name? 21:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, it does need a reliable source to back up a claim that the character is based on any real life person. Otherwise it is WP:OR. Much of the list is unsourced, it is true, but most of it is pure plot summary which comes from the series itself. Sources are desired, but unless its OR or interpretative, they aren't completely required. If there are some bits, however, that are dubious or appear to be OR or interprative, by all means please tag them with {{fact|date=July 2008}} or remove them for being unsourced OR. I haven't read the list in-depth as I'm just now reading the manga and don't like being spoiled. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing things up. By the way, do you consider Anime News Network by any chance a reliable source? I've seen a very few references directing me to that site, and I'm not sure how trustworthy such site is. Have fun reading the manga. 11:16, 19 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkKunai (talk • contribs)
- Yes, Anime News Network is one of the, unfortunately, few online reliable sources for anime and manga information (along with AnimeOnDVD.com and ICv2, it makes up our core info sites). There are a few limits with ANN though, as noted in the reference section of the Anime and manga project page:
- A note about using Anime News Network as a reference: ANN is divided into sections of varying quality. For news, reviews, and release information, ANN is reliable source and close to being a newspaper of record for anime and manga. However, because the encyclopedia portion is user-edited, that information is not reliable by Wikipedia standards. That said, it is the experience of this WikiProject that the ANN's encyclopedia can be used with care for certain kinds of information:
- Generally reliable but try to confirm these with a second source: production staff, producers/publishers, air/publication dates
- Not very reliable and so use only with confirmation from other sources: biographical data, episode title translations
- Do not use: genres (except as given by a reviewer)
- Note also that credit lists, especially for mangaka, are rarely complete.
- Hope that helps some. :) The project also lists a few other websites that are considered reliable sources -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Re Abtract
The indef block has not stuck, so I have substituted it for a fortnight tariff - of which 3 days have been served. You may wish to review the comments I have made on Abtract's talkpage. LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Okay...I guess I can see why the indef didn't stick, by per the levels of increasing block, shouldn't it have been a month instead of just two weeks? Alas, I see he did is usual response to blocking of complaining that "well you didn't block them, so you can't block me" and refuses to acknowledge that he continues stalking both of us (despite promises to leave both of us alone). I guess a two week break without dealing with him is better than nothing. I'm sure we'll be back at AN/I in another two weeks, though, as he seems to be mentally incapable of stopping his disturbing obsession with following and harassing us. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- The third party admin I have been corresponding with as regards Abtract has left me this message. I suggest you review the content of Abtracts suggestion. If you need to discuss this matter I suggest you take it up with Ncmvocalist, since I am disinclined to communicate further with Abtract. Cheers. LessHeard vanU (talk) 09:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Abtract does tend to have that affect, and I appreciate you sticking in there and trying to resolve things. Unfortunately, Abtract already has shown he doesn't even care to listen to administrators, and he has blown off numerous uninvolved editors trying to help him. I will not agree to Abtract's "suggestion." Its the same old BS he has pulled before, attempting to lay the blame on his behavior on everyone but himself, then acting as if he is being magnanimous by offering a "solution". He will just continue finding other ways of harassing and stalking us. He's already done it before over and over and over, then smugly continues the longer he is allowed to get away with it. He is the only one stalking anyone. I don't have his talk page in my watch list. I don't follow behind his edits. I don't inject myself into his discussions just to disagree with him. Frankly, I think he is mentally unbalanced to act this way despite six blocks. He wants to agree to something, then he should agree to leave both myself and Sess alone, completely. Remove pages we work on from his talk page. Not communicate with us, not inject himself into our discussions or leave little notes on our talk page. Nothing. Of course, he's already supposedly agreed to that twice before, but he always changes his mind within 24 hours and turns around complaining that he is the harrassed one. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 09:59, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- In the absence of compelling evidence, the community can and will do little to help, particularly if you refuse to resolve your differences there. No one has the authority to exert ownership over Wikipedia or all pages edited by a certain user, or a certain 2 users. However, if the 3 of you agree to the explicit agreement I've drafted out, each of you will encounter much less (if any) problems, because a user who violates the agreement will be sanctioned or blocked without warning. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- I see JHunter, an admin who is very much involved in this issue has already unblocked him, nullifying your proposed agreement, without even waiting for a response from Abtract's victims. I appreciate you attempting to help, but in truth you are not an admin, and can't do anything to enforce the agreement. Abtract has violated such agreements before, and he will break this one, then claim it wasn't official or find some other excuse. I also will never agree to such terms that still gives him fair game to harass and stalk us on other articles (reverting isn't all he does, and his favorite target among articles I work on are the Meerkat Manor articles, which isn't anime nor manga. The only way I'd make any agreement at all is if his 2 week block remains in place until its done and he is banned from interacting with us at all, including not touching any article nor the talk page of articles that either of us is an editor on. I can just seem him using the loopholes to do things like tag articles for issues, attempt to get GAs or FAs we've done delisted, etc. There are lots of ways to harass us without having to revert when he's left with the options. Basically, it would have to be a virtual restraining order before I'd even consider it, and it must be backed up by an admin who isn't Abtract's defender. One willing to keep an eye on him or agree to be the one to report to if he violates. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 17:43, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- While Ncmvocalist is not an admin - I mistakingly referred to him/her as such - they have put forward a very reasonably worded agreement, and it is the content that should be considered and not who wrote it. Abtract has signed up for it, and it draws a line over which none may cross. I urge you to do likewise, for in your interactions with A I have not seen you provoke an issue. Sess has on occasion reverted A where he had good faith belief that A was editing disruptively; this will have to cease, but if anyone does a bad edit the likelihood is that it will get undone - it also means that you and Sess have no more to do with A and can get on with editing the encyclopedia. Again, under the circumstances I see this as the best way forward and suggest that you and Sess sign up to it. LessHeard vanU (talk) 18:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Abtract has made such agreements before. He won't keep it anymore, and while it may seem reasonably worded, it really doesn't protect against some of his favorite forms of harassment. He has tormented both of us for two months now, yet we seem to be the ones who keep getting punished for it and who are supposed to jump through hoops to appease him. Gotta love how often life reminds you that it isn't fair. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- The agreement I've written out is indefinite and is not nullified, nor does it preclude any future agreement. Why won't you agree to 'not revert' any edit made by Abtract in exchange of the same, plus more, as a bare minimum? Your reasoning for refusing is insufficient so far, and your proposal is so extremely against Wikipedia principles and unreasonable, that I expect no Wikipedian to agree to it under any circumstances. Your refusal to sign is therefore unhelpful to yourself and not in your interests - but quite the contrary for Abtract. This is the last time I'm going to urge you to sign it, for your own sake. Ncmvocalist (talk) 19:55, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- And if he vandalized an article, like he did Meerkat Manor before, not by reverting, but by shoving invalid [citation needed] tags all over it (which is easily grounds for an FAR to get it delisted)? I'm not supposed to revert? Sorry, but no, as long as it does not fully restrict him from doing ALL of the harassing actions he's been doing, not just reverting or leaving notes on the talk page I see no reason to agree to not undo it. I work on several articles that do not have any other active editors who can/will revert in my stead. The proposal primarily benefits Abtract, as it gives him free reign to continue he usual behaviors, except for the reverting itself. He's nitpicked wording before to excuse violating similar agreements. I have absolutely no faith he won't do it again. I also would not agree to sign anything when he's already been released from his block. On his last block, he was warned to stop or he'd be blocked again for a longer time. Instead, he gets a few days because someone else released it. No offense, but consider none of the restrictions at this point have held, why should I even waste the time agreeing to yet another one? Even if he breaks them, its obvious nothing will really be done. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- If you're going to continually assume bad faith, then there's no point complaining in the future - there'll be little to no help. The proposal is for your own good if you do not want to be blocked for edit-warring in the future. Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- And if he vandalized an article, like he did Meerkat Manor before, not by reverting, but by shoving invalid [citation needed] tags all over it (which is easily grounds for an FAR to get it delisted)? I'm not supposed to revert? Sorry, but no, as long as it does not fully restrict him from doing ALL of the harassing actions he's been doing, not just reverting or leaving notes on the talk page I see no reason to agree to not undo it. I work on several articles that do not have any other active editors who can/will revert in my stead. The proposal primarily benefits Abtract, as it gives him free reign to continue he usual behaviors, except for the reverting itself. He's nitpicked wording before to excuse violating similar agreements. I have absolutely no faith he won't do it again. I also would not agree to sign anything when he's already been released from his block. On his last block, he was warned to stop or he'd be blocked again for a longer time. Instead, he gets a few days because someone else released it. No offense, but consider none of the restrictions at this point have held, why should I even waste the time agreeing to yet another one? Even if he breaks them, its obvious nothing will really be done. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- The agreement I've written out is indefinite and is not nullified, nor does it preclude any future agreement. Why won't you agree to 'not revert' any edit made by Abtract in exchange of the same, plus more, as a bare minimum? Your reasoning for refusing is insufficient so far, and your proposal is so extremely against Wikipedia principles and unreasonable, that I expect no Wikipedian to agree to it under any circumstances. Your refusal to sign is therefore unhelpful to yourself and not in your interests - but quite the contrary for Abtract. This is the last time I'm going to urge you to sign it, for your own sake. Ncmvocalist (talk) 19:55, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Abtract has made such agreements before. He won't keep it anymore, and while it may seem reasonably worded, it really doesn't protect against some of his favorite forms of harassment. He has tormented both of us for two months now, yet we seem to be the ones who keep getting punished for it and who are supposed to jump through hoops to appease him. Gotta love how often life reminds you that it isn't fair. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- While Ncmvocalist is not an admin - I mistakingly referred to him/her as such - they have put forward a very reasonably worded agreement, and it is the content that should be considered and not who wrote it. Abtract has signed up for it, and it draws a line over which none may cross. I urge you to do likewise, for in your interactions with A I have not seen you provoke an issue. Sess has on occasion reverted A where he had good faith belief that A was editing disruptively; this will have to cease, but if anyone does a bad edit the likelihood is that it will get undone - it also means that you and Sess have no more to do with A and can get on with editing the encyclopedia. Again, under the circumstances I see this as the best way forward and suggest that you and Sess sign up to it. LessHeard vanU (talk) 18:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- I see JHunter, an admin who is very much involved in this issue has already unblocked him, nullifying your proposed agreement, without even waiting for a response from Abtract's victims. I appreciate you attempting to help, but in truth you are not an admin, and can't do anything to enforce the agreement. Abtract has violated such agreements before, and he will break this one, then claim it wasn't official or find some other excuse. I also will never agree to such terms that still gives him fair game to harass and stalk us on other articles (reverting isn't all he does, and his favorite target among articles I work on are the Meerkat Manor articles, which isn't anime nor manga. The only way I'd make any agreement at all is if his 2 week block remains in place until its done and he is banned from interacting with us at all, including not touching any article nor the talk page of articles that either of us is an editor on. I can just seem him using the loopholes to do things like tag articles for issues, attempt to get GAs or FAs we've done delisted, etc. There are lots of ways to harass us without having to revert when he's left with the options. Basically, it would have to be a virtual restraining order before I'd even consider it, and it must be backed up by an admin who isn't Abtract's defender. One willing to keep an eye on him or agree to be the one to report to if he violates. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 17:43, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- In the absence of compelling evidence, the community can and will do little to help, particularly if you refuse to resolve your differences there. No one has the authority to exert ownership over Wikipedia or all pages edited by a certain user, or a certain 2 users. However, if the 3 of you agree to the explicit agreement I've drafted out, each of you will encounter much less (if any) problems, because a user who violates the agreement will be sanctioned or blocked without warning. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Why you back in my edits in Lucy Lawless? StevenLSears (talk) 19:29, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Because they were inappropriate and you are a sockpuppet that has been blocked from editing numerous times, but continue making accounts despite knowing you are not supposed to. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:35, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- I only want edit in piece. StevenLSears (talk) 21:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- You are not allowed to edit here anymore. That is why ALL of your accounts continue to be blocked. You refused to follow Wikipedia editing guidelines over and over again. You have lost your right to edit here. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 23:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- I only want edit in piece. StevenLSears (talk) 21:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Speedy tags
Can you please check that pages that I create are not from mirror sites before you place speedy tags on them? Thanks. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 01:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- How can a mirror site mirror a page that didn't exist. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- This can happen in two ways:
- When an article is split the contents are part of a page at the morror site.
- The mirror site page is created from a fresh database dump after a page is created on WP or some sort of bot adds new pages to the mirror site.
- If you take a careful look at the pages the I created that you tagged with a speedy you will see that it is a mirror site. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 01:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- This can happen in two ways:
- If it was a split, then the deciding admin will be able to see it, and in the future it would be useful if you note in your creation edit summary that the contents are being split from article X. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- I did note that the article was a split in the edit summary. Also, if you care to follow the link to the supposed infringed site you will notice that it is a mirror site. Can you please do this and then remove the speedy tags? Ta. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 02:05, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- We should also not be creating unnecessary work for the overworked admins. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 02:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi. The author of this article (who I suspect to be Andrew Shulman) recreated the article. It just can't survive AfD. If the author wants to go through the processes, he's welcome to. But as long as it's a copyright violation/plagiarism, it has to go. - Richard Cavell (talk) 07:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, I agree completely. May need to salt it if he keeps recreating it, until he gets the point. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 07:36, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- if he is indeed a winner of the Piatigorsky award, he is likely to be notable, and the better course would be to rewrite the article free of copyvio and self-advertising. I can see no valid basis for salting, and, given the reviews cited, I doubt an AfD would succeed. Principal cello with the LA Phil is almost unquestionably notable. DGG (talk) 08:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- I meant salting if Shulman himself keeps recreating the article, unless you actually believe there is nothing wrong with him doing so. If you feel he is notable, feel free to make a valid article, though I suspect you'll find he'll keep editing it to suit his own preferences like most people egotistical enough to make articles about themselves here. And are you checking my contribs or something, because you seem to be turning up a lot lately around stuff I touch? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 09:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- I don't doubt that Andrew Shulman is notable, but User:As1960 has been disruptive. I indefinitely blocked him in the end. I strongly suspect that As1960 is Andrew Shulman himself. His article was plagiarism (though indeed it may have been a plagiarisation of his own website), and obviously was written by a person with a conflict of interest. - Richard Cavell (talk) 02:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi! I was just wondering - if you have time - if you could advice me regarding Belldandy. I'd like to get it up to Featured standard before the 20th anniversary (late August), but I have no experience with FAC, so I don't know if it is close enough to be worth making a shot at it. I'd hopped to work on Oh My Goddess!, but uni constraints meant that I can't do that until next week, so I doubt I have even a remote chance with that one (although I plan to spend a lot of time on it now - unfortunately my rewrite of the Norse origins section was lost with a computer crash). Anyway, any advice from you would be greatly appreciated! - Bilby (talk) 07:48, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Sure. One thing is the lead. It should be a summary of the article, and thus need few to no sources at all. So it needs rewriting, and anything sourced in it that isn't in the article needs to be incorporated into the article as much as possible. You may also want to recheck the infobox. For example, it says her birthdate is unknown, yet then has a guess at her age while at the same time calling her a Goddess (which would tend to mean she is immortal and has lived a long time). With FA, MoS compliance will be much more closely checked. The image in "Creation and conception" needs to either be left align or moved, as images should never be right aligned if they are placed just below a header. That table of "Holy Bell's appearances" is very likely to be considered trivia and superflous. I'd recommend summarizing it in the prose and dropping the table all together. The "Description" might be better served being fleshed out some and incorporated into "Creation and conception" section, as it speaks more to her character design than her role in the series. To stand out, quotes need to be at least four lines long, so the quote in "Reception and critique" needs to be put back into the text or expanded.
- If the article hasn't been copyedited, I strongly strongly recommend getting that done before an FAC. Believe me, its like one of the first things folks ping an article for. :P The only other thing I can think of is the references. Double check them all to make sure they have complete info (including ISBNs for books, ISSNs where available for magazines, author names, titles, dates as available, etc), are using the appropriate citation templates, and have no errors (like misformatted dates). Of course, also make sure all meet WP:RS, especially the web references. Combine any duplicate refs, such as books using pages from the same chapter (just use one ref with the pages set to pp. x-y rather than one per page). Hope that helps some. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 09:09, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Did you see this..?
[1] I think you really pissed off Grawp! Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 22:18, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think she'd wanna see that..... : ( – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 23:47, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, he tried to redirect my user page to a page called that twice. An admin was kind enough to completely delete it from my talk page history. Alas, while my user pages are move protected, they can't be semi-protected from IP edits. *sigh* -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- I feel so bad for you....why do so many people inslut you so crudly, especially to a woman, that is completely unecceptable. -_- – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 03:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- No idea why some folks feel the need to be so crude and insulting. In Grawp's case, he's a well known sck/vandal who does that to anyone who happens to stumble on one of his vandalism runs and cleans up behind him. The actual editors, well, guess they just lose their tempers or are unable to think and post calmly. And some, of course, think there is nothing wrong with such language and insulting, which makes you wonder about society as a whole. I've lost my temper a few times in discussions and even thrown out some mildly uncivil comments, but glad to say I still manage to avoid descending to such low level, disgusting vulgarity. It is the one major drawback of Wikipedia...the more active and visible you are, the more likely you get attacked, your user page vandalized, etc and there really are few protections available. Even the cyber stalkers are allowed to harass anyone they want if they occasionally do a good edit now and then, while the victims are blamed for not "working together." It would make an interesting fictional piece to write a novel set in a town that runs similar to how Wikipedia does sometime. :P In the end, I just tell the new folks that my first piece of advice to them is to have a thick skin, or this isn't the place for them. Most insults I can ignore, a few (that Grawps) a seek to have removed or will pursue action on, in the case of actual editors and not socks. In the end, though, I shrug it off and instead pity those who lead such lackluster lives that they must seek entertainment by acting in such ways.-- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 03:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- That's kinda sad, I'm suprised I haven't been vandalised once. Which is kinda weird considering everyone at ANN thinks i'm stupid, and I could imagine that many of them go to Wikipedia. To me, they seem like the kinda people that would be vandlising pages n' stuff. And i'm pretty well known on the internet, mostly for my strong hatred of Cartoon Network. :D – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 05:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- No idea why some folks feel the need to be so crude and insulting. In Grawp's case, he's a well known sck/vandal who does that to anyone who happens to stumble on one of his vandalism runs and cleans up behind him. The actual editors, well, guess they just lose their tempers or are unable to think and post calmly. And some, of course, think there is nothing wrong with such language and insulting, which makes you wonder about society as a whole. I've lost my temper a few times in discussions and even thrown out some mildly uncivil comments, but glad to say I still manage to avoid descending to such low level, disgusting vulgarity. It is the one major drawback of Wikipedia...the more active and visible you are, the more likely you get attacked, your user page vandalized, etc and there really are few protections available. Even the cyber stalkers are allowed to harass anyone they want if they occasionally do a good edit now and then, while the victims are blamed for not "working together." It would make an interesting fictional piece to write a novel set in a town that runs similar to how Wikipedia does sometime. :P In the end, I just tell the new folks that my first piece of advice to them is to have a thick skin, or this isn't the place for them. Most insults I can ignore, a few (that Grawps) a seek to have removed or will pursue action on, in the case of actual editors and not socks. In the end, though, I shrug it off and instead pity those who lead such lackluster lives that they must seek entertainment by acting in such ways.-- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 03:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- I feel so bad for you....why do so many people inslut you so crudly, especially to a woman, that is completely unecceptable. -_- – J U M P G U R U @Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 03:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
The Purple Barnstar
I hereby award you this Purple star as I have seen the abuse and vandalism your userpage has gone through during your time on Wikipedia. I commend you on your patience, civility and endurance. G.A.S 06:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC) |