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Andrew, I'm saddened to see you pursuing you usual manner of participation at RfA. I realise that you very occasionally support candidates but [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/BethNaught&diff=695181165&oldid=695176381 this vote] once again demonstrate a clear pattern that has emerged over the years including your work as Colonel Warden. We are trying to make adminship a more interesting prospect for users of the right calibre but the style and relevance of the voting is exactly what discourages them. I'm sure you will understand that I and other users now feel it is possibly getting close to the time for the broader community to comment in another venue on what appears to be your agenda. --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 09:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC) |
Andrew, I'm saddened to see you pursuing you usual manner of participation at RfA. I realise that you very occasionally support candidates but [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/BethNaught&diff=695181165&oldid=695176381 this vote] once again demonstrate a clear pattern that has emerged over the years including your work as Colonel Warden. We are trying to make adminship a more interesting prospect for users of the right calibre but the style and relevance of the voting is exactly what discourages them. I'm sure you will understand that I and other users now feel it is possibly getting close to the time for the broader community to comment in another venue on what appears to be your agenda. --[[User:Kudpung|Kudpung กุดผึ้ง]] ([[User talk:Kudpung|talk]]) 09:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC) |
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:I don't want to pile on at the RfA, but I'd like to add that implying the candidate's gender, or disclosure thereof, has anything to do with their suitability as an admin is totally inappropriate. [[User:Samwalton9|'''S'''am '''W'''alton]] ([[User talk:Samwalton9|talk]]) 11:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC) |
Revision as of 11:48, 14 December 2015
Big game hunters
You wrote in WP:AfD/Botella (measurement) (after markup-stripping):
- I was training a new editor recently and was surprised at the level of hostility which was immediately shown to her. Without my assistance, her first experience of Wikipedia would have been very negative and we would have lost yet another editor. [...] Anyway, that other editor was User:Mauladad and it remains to be seen whether she will stick with it or is now quite intimidated.
That interested me. I took a look.
The editor has so far only worked significantly on a single article, "Bali Mauladad". The subject name and username show a striking resemblance. Anyway, in this edit, User:Loriendrew added the COI and Notability templates, with a neutral edit summary. At that point, reference and external link aside, the article consisted of one (1) sentence, viz:
- Mohamed Iqbal Mauladad known as Bali Mauladad was a big game hunter in Kenya.
I would say that yes, COI looks likely and notability was not established. The article did have a reference, and the reference came complete with a quotation, one that's oddly relevant to units:
- "Mohamed Iqbal Mauladad, 'Bali' as he was always called, was a huge man. Born in the mid-1920's he stood six foot one (two meters) in his socks, weighed 250 lbs (113 kilos) and sported a magnificent moustache."
Er, what? I stand nearly six foot one in my socks, but far short of two meters.
It's good that you are working to rescue articles, but you seem curiously prone to see "hostility" where I see mild and justifiable irritation.
I wondered how difficult it is for a new arrival to create articles that do suggest notability and do not suggest COI, so I looked at the articles I created when I was new, back in 2004. Here they are, each in the (horrible) state in which its second editor found it:
- Voigtländer
- Bridget St John
- Jonathan Routh
- Nicholas Luard
- Michael Heath (cartoonist)
- The Establishment (club)
- Dandelion Records
- Cosina
I'd like to think that I wouldn't perpetrate anything like any of them these days. (I now prefer this style.) But I think that each of them shows minor promise, in its crappy way. None was flagged for COI or notability, and I don't think that any risked this.
Are you perhaps too quick to see hostility? -- Hoary (talk) 00:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps you don't have the full story? That first draft was put together quickly at the tail-end of the last London meetup. It was part of a crash course in which I was showing the new editor the basics of account creation, talk pages, article editing, &c. We didn't have time to do much but, when I got home, I saw those first two tags and so spent an hour expanding the article to this. That seemed good enough and it was then midnight so I went to bed. In the morning, I found that the article had now been tagged for speedy deletion and, before I could get to it again, it was gone. Both those speedy tags were inappropriate as the article made several reasonable claims of importance (A7) and was not exclusively promotional (G11) as the subject had been dead for over 40 years. Being experienced, I knew how to locate the admin that had performed the deletion and remonstrated with them. The novice editor would have had more trouble dealing with this by themselves because speedy deletion doesn't leave a good audit trail - the page in question has vanished, along with its history. The admin kindly restored the article without more ado — perhaps they realised that the tagging had been excessive. Subsequently, there was more challenging bureaucracy in getting an appropriate photograph added to commons, which required repeatedly contacting and persuading an 80-year old woman in France to log an OTRS ticket, &c. With that done, I did some more expansion to get the page nominated for DYK within the 7-day deadline - yet more red tape which a novice would have found difficult by themselves.
- As for your articles, my impression is that you had it easier back in 2004. For example, looking down the list, I recognise the name of Jonathan Routh. I have no complaint myself about this as a topic but notice that your start didn't have any references. As this was then a BLP, you might nowadays find that a {{BLP_PROD}} is slapped on it if it isn't immediately speedily deleted as A7/G11, like the case above. Note that the page is still tagged as lacking adequate citations, 10 years later.
- As veteran editors we can now take this aggravation in our stride, but I still reckon that the reception given to novices is too hostile. It's not just me who thinks this — see Encyclopedia Frown:
“The encyclopedia that anyone can edit” is at risk of becoming, in computer scientist Aaron Halfaker’s words, “the encyclopedia that anyone who understands the norms, socializes him or herself, dodges the impersonal wall of semiautomated rejection and still wants to voluntarily contribute his or her time and energy can edit.” An entrenched, stubborn elite of old-timers, a high bar to entry, and a persistent 90/10 gender gap among editors all point to the possibility that Wikipedia is going adrift.
- As veteran editors we can now take this aggravation in our stride, but I still reckon that the reception given to novices is too hostile. It's not just me who thinks this — see Encyclopedia Frown:
- I've taken up the invitation in your archive page to resurrect old discussions. (This particular discussion is only four days old, and I first saw the latest addition to it just hours ago, as I'd spent the turning of the year somewhere with no computer.)
- No, I didn't have the full story. But now that I do, I'm not convinced. You say that this "seemed good enough", but I have difficulty discerning notability. I don't think that big game hunters are inherently notable; for this one, there's a claim that he was unusual in being of Indian origin, but this claim is backed up by a wiki and an article of almost half a century ago from a somewhat obscure newspaper. (Yes of course half-century-old articles in obscure newspapers may be cited, but it's odd for such a source to be vital for the most important claim in an article.)
- It had never occurred to me that kicking off a brand new article would be a good introduction to editing Wikipedia. (I'm surprised to discover that I did this with my fifth edit, but the situation was different back then.) Depending on the person's skills and tastes, she'd be better off starting out by fixing spellings, making changes to wording, sourcing the unsourced, or similar. Doing this brings skills, it may bring the appreciation of others, it's likely to bring understanding of what's involved, and it also is likely to avoid the suspicion that the user is primarily/exclusively here in order to boost her own company/school/chum/ancestor/whatever. In particular, I wouldn't dream of suggesting to a new editor that she should aim for "DYK": the requirements are so many and so laborious that I've never wanted to attempt it myself.
- Yes, things were easier in 2004. The idea seemed to be: "If what you want to say is going to seem reasonable to people who know a bit about the subject, you don't have to source it. And what sources you do specify can simply be listed at the foot of the article." The sourcing in my early articles is atrocious by 2015 standards. (It probably wasn't good even by 2004 standards. And there was a fair amount of "unencyclopedic" editorializing, some of which has lasted until today.) But even if I were to perpetrate these now, I don't think that there'd be any suspicion of COI, and I don't think there'd be questions about notability.
- I knew that there was a wide male/female gap in en:WP editing but not that it was 90/10. This is a matter for concern and it's good that you are encouraging more women to join up. But I don't see any gender issue with the treatment of either the creator of many stubs for more or less obscure units or the creator of Bali Mauladad. -- Hoary (talk) 08:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- You've never done a DYK? You should not be intimidated as your work such as Ken Grant would fit in quite well. The most challenging part is not so much creating the entry but reviewing the work of others. I am familiar with the formalities as I have done several dozen now. If I should notice some new work of yours, I may nominate it for you so you can see how it's done. Andrew D. (talk) 11:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- When I get around to creating an article (which isn't often), I do like to start it on the substantial side; this alone would raise the chance of DYKability, I suppose. ¶ Oh dear, every time you mention one of "my" articles, I look at it and realize that it's in worse shape than I had lazily presumed. (Thence Routh [still poor], Grant.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:20, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Hey Andrew many thanks for your wishes. Have a great start to the new year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mauladad (talk • contribs) 16:16, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi Andrew, Hope you are well. I have done a new article today. It is saved in the sandbox :) I got confused about the stub? Please can you have a quick look. Mauladad (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
DYK for Bali Mauladad
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:02, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Weights and Measures
Wrap reel
You created the above article, which is a fine stub, but I cannot see this going anywhere with the present title. There should surely be an article on the (mostly unsystematic) systems used for measurement in the textile industry, and I think this could be a good starting point for it. Suppose we renamed it to "Measurement in the textile industry"? Or do you have any other suggestions for titles. This would immediately mean that a list of the units we do know about could go on this page: currently both skein and lea go to a tangled web of DABs and the usual isolated claims about 4 decimal places of centimetres. Imaginatorium (talk) 09:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
- I have created hundreds of articles and already have no shortage of ideas for development and expansion. What I lack is time. In your case, it appears that you have only created two articles — Johann August Just, Walter Schulthess — and they are both still stubs. Please see the Mote and the Beam, "...with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again". Andrew D. (talk) 14:19, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll skip your response, since you don't seem to have understood what I was saying. I am suggesting renaming this article more broadly, and I ask your comments on this, rather than plunging ahead. Or are you saying you have no further interest in the subject? Imaginatorium (talk) 14:32, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Truss
Thank you much Andrew for saving the article Truss (unit). Shevonsilva (talk) 21:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Obsolete units
Hi Andrew Davidson: Per your interest in the topic, check out the new List of obsolete units of measurement. NORTH AMERICA1000 21:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Legal stone
Since you had some involvement with the Legal stone redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Imaginatorium (talk) 19:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Ard
Is the "ard" any more real than the "Stupping ton"? OED hasn't got it (except as a light plough, or a suffix meaning "one who does to excess, or who does what is discreditable"), nor online Larousse, nor online Oxford combined dictionaries (including bilingual). Where did you find your statement that a Demiard was "originally half of an ard"? PamD 16:11, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- The "ard" also isn't mentioned in Units of measurement in France before the French Revolution#Volume - Liquid measures where the "Demiard" is described (and to which I've just redirected Chopine (unit), along with making the missing hatnote from Chopine). PamD 16:22, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Renovation of the nuclear weapon arsenal of the USA
Renovation of the nuclear weapon arsenal of the USA is a bit more expanded. Check'em out bro and lead me. - The Herald (here I am) 14:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:37, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Deletion discussions
Notifications
- Athletics at the 2015 Southeast Asian Games – Men's 100 metres
- Brad De Losa
- Irish language in Britain
- List of historical buildings and landmarks in Portland, Oregon
- List of online chess playing programs
- Mop wedding
- Ordinary Language
- Pantacles of Athens
- Sports guru
- Technology guru
- Teaching guru
Castle Inn
Hi. I noticed that you pulled down the PROD but did not respond to the issues raised in it or make any improvements in the article. Can you point to any in depth coverage from multiple reliable sources for the subject required by GNG and GEOFEAT? I and a number of other editors have not been able to find much. See this discussion. I saw you posted some generic source search links but while those yielded no shortage of pormotional hits and a very few short blurbs, I don't see the kind of serious coverage required by GNG. Of course you may have found something that we missed. If so please let us know. Absent some serious RS coverage I suspect the article is likely to be sent to AfD. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
-
- Is it a state secret? I'd rather not trouble people with an AfD if you can respond to the issues raised. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Formula 1 (board game)
Thanks for your help at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Formula 1 (board game). Success. -Arb. (talk) 19:56, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
List of interracial romance films
Hey Andrew, the AFD mentioned above turned into a bit of a mess. Someone made a non-admin SK closure on it, then when I suggested that was an inappropriate action, they opened a second AFD on it. If you want to comment on the new AFD, it's here. Townlake (talk) 20:47, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for supporting the article. I've gotten started with some of the references there so if you'd like to chime in go for it. :) -AngusWOOF (talk) 05:41, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Melee
There was recently a deletion debate which you took part. The debate continues on the talk page of the article (see talk:Melee). Please join the debate so that a consensus can be reached on the initial issues of whether it is appropriate to include the maintenance {{coatrack}} at the top of the article Melee. --PBS-AWB (talk) 17:08, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Nawabpur Road
If you have a reference for "It's the busiest road in the capital city of this country." it'd be good to add it to Nawabpur Road. -Arb. (talk) 15:37, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Wetted surface
You removed the proposed deletion template from Wetted surface. Do you believe that, given the various contexts in which this term is used, that a single meaningful article that goes beyond just the basic definition can be developed? The term is used in various disciplines (aerodynamics, fluid dynamics, hydrostatics, etc), but in all cases, it just means the surface area of an object that is in contact with the working fluid. The ramifications of the term are different for each discipline, and must be discussed within the context of the discipline. I don't believe a single article can go beyond the basic definition without uselessly reproducing information that is already developed elsewhere. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 23:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
- The merits and development of the topic are best discussed at its talk page so that others, including its first author, may observe and participate. Note that I started the talk page and placed links to relevant sources there. Naturally, I checked these myself in the course of my action; I am always careful to check my ground. Please note also that the PROD process is only for uncontroversial cases and "must only be used if no opposition is to be expected". It should therefore not be used upon an article which has been newly created in good faith and, in this case, the article had only been created for 27 minutes. Such action is contrary to our behavioural guidelines such as WP:BITE and WP:DISRUPTION. Andrew D. (talk) 00:15, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
DYK for Parliament in the Making
— Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
DYK for Silvermere
Thanks for your help Victuallers (talk) 12:04, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
A new reference tool - Citoid
Hello Books & Bytes subscribers. There is a new Visual Editor reference feature in development called Citoid. It is designed to "auto-fill" references using a URL or DOI. We would really appreciate you testing whether TWL partners' references work in Citoid. Sharing your results will help the developers fix bugs and improve the system. If you have a few minutes, please visit the testing page for simple instructions on how to try this new tool. Regards, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Blofeld's barnstar
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
I'm glad that at least you see the value in my stubs and what is most important on wikipedia (identifying notable subjects and addressing systematic bias and working towards improving them)! Thankyou Andrew.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:27, 11 April 2015 (UTC) |
I can't remember if you said you're interested in Stanley Kubrick at all but I've updated the main article and will be working on getting it up to GA n the next few weeks.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:33, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks but I'm not especially interested in Kubrick and iirc that topic already has too many cooks. I'll put it on my watchlist and just lurk in case more voices are needed to resolve some dispute. I'm much more interested in Al-'Abr which seems quite a fascinating place - rich in ancient Arabian history and then a far-flung outpost of the British Empire. But today my priority should be the boat race and I need to get ready for that... Andrew D. (talk) 10:40, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
I'd thought it was you who mentioned Kubrick previously, I must be mistaken. A lot of editor interest, yes, but very few actually coming up with the goods! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:57, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
Another interesting new stub, Orm Storolfsson..♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
No PNG for photos
When you corrected the orientation problem on File:Rock on Top of Another Rock south.jpg you did so by uploading File:Rock on Top of Another Rock south.png. The objections to using PNG are: the file size increased from 1,322,852 to 8,680,934 bytes with no increase in information content and all the EXIF metadata was thrown away. If the situation occurs again, upload to the Commons (which is where you should be uploading anyway) and use the "request rotation" facility which is available there - or ask me to do it. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 14:55, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- My impression is that it's the EXIF data which can cause the rotation problem as there's an orientation tag in it which is not well-supported. As for the rocks, they have gone now, alas. I cycled past the Serpentine on my way to the Tweed Run recently and made a point of checking. Andrew D. (talk) 13:07, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
DYK for Amy Gentry
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:03, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Support request with team editing experiment project
Dear tech ambassadors, instead of spamming the Village Pump of each Wikipedia about my tiny project proposal for researching team editing (see here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Research_team_editing), I have decided to leave to your own discretion if the matter is relevant enough to inform a wider audience already. I would appreciate if you could appraise if the Wikipedia community you are more familiar with could have interest in testing group editing "on their own grounds" and with their own guidance. In a nutshell: it consists in editing pages as a group instead of as an individual. This social experiment might involve redefining some aspects of the workflow we are all used to, with the hope of creating a more friendly and collaborative environment since editing under a group umbrella creates less social exposure than traditional "individual editing". I send you this message also as a proof that the Inspire Campaign is already gearing up. As said I would appreciate of *you* just a comment on the talk page/endorsement of my project noting your general perception about the idea. Nothing else. Your contribution helps to shape the future! (which I hope it will be very bright, with colors, and Wikipedia everywhere) Regards from User:Micru on meta.
Andrew, just a quick question, are you aware how WP:ITN functions? It appears from some of your recent posts that either your account has been compromised or you have an inherent misunderstanding as to how Wikipedia and the ITN section of the main page operates. Feel free to ping me so I can clarify things for you, right now some of your edits are being potentially misinterpreted by others as naivety or worse, I'd like to help you with that. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:24, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
- It's not clear whether ITN is functioning well or not because there don't seem to be any measures of success. At DYK, one can assess the effectiveness of a hook from the spike in readership. This doesn't work with topics in the news because people will read them regardless of whether ITN lists them or not. For example, Princess Charlotte of Cambridge has been snubbed at ITN but still has a bigger spike in readership than the Kentucky Derby. Even the cleanup aspect of driving improvements to the articles seems quite haphazard. The Kentucky Derby has had a cleanup banner tag since 2014 but was listed regardless and so Princess Charlotte seems to be doing better in that respect too. Andrew D. (talk) 22:25, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
- That wasn't my question. There's little doubt that all processes across Wikipedia could be improved. It seemed to me that you are unaware as to how ITN currently works, not how you think it should work. In any case, just so you know, the focus is on the bold linked article in a blurb, so that's why the Kentucky Derby item was listed. Charlotte wasn't listed because no consensus existed to post a royal baby, predominantly because she most likely will never be reigning monarch and also because this is English language Wikipedia, not British Wikipedia. Popularity of articles doesn't equate to encyclopedic value. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
- The archetypal encyclopedia is Britannica. If you visit their home page right now, their lead item is a "Behind the News" feature — "British Royals Reveal New Princess’s Name". Q.E.D.
- If you click through to "More Behind the News", they offer three more - "Fight of the Young Century", "Messenger Mission Ends", "Pakistan jails 10 for Malala attack". The Kentucky Derby doesn't make the cut. That's the judgement of a real encyclopedia: a new princess is more important than a horse race. Most other mainstream sites seem to agree. The only exceptions I found in a quick survey were Al Jazeera and Russia Today. That's the company we're keeping — partisan propaganda, not encyclopedic values. Andrew D. (talk) 18:19, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
- Yep, and how many main page hits does Wikipedia get compared with Britannica? Once again (for the third time?), if you don't want to see horse races on ITN, start the discussion at WT:ITNR, don't just take the easy whinging way out and ignore that a process exists to achieve exactly what you want because you can't be bothered to do anything about it. It is oh so easy to sit back and bitch about the state of affairs, it is much harder but much more useful to actively do something about it. You know the phrase "put up or shut up" I assume? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:37, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
- So, you're now saying that it's page views that matter, not encyclopedic values? Wikipedia seems to get about 20 million hits per day on the main page but my impression is that few of the many blue links on the page get clicked through. Britannica has a much cleaner look with far fewer topics. The prominence it gives to the new Princess is therefore even more significant.
- As for WP:ITNR, that seems dominated by a long list of sports. It's more like the back pages of a newspaper than an encyclopedia. Andrew D. (talk) 20:54, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
- No, of course I'm not saying any of that. What I'm saying is: if you care enough, do something about it. If you don't, stop bitching about it. Simple as that. If you prefer to work at Britannica, please do so, that would be great. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:55, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
- Your suggestion seems contrary to the guidance at WP:ITN/C which states, "Please do not add simple "support" or "oppose" !votes". Commentary is therefore expected as part of the !votes there. My comments seem consistent with others there such as "Oppose long-serving politician gets old and dies. Ten a penny I'm afraid..." Andrew D. (talk) 22:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
- No, of course I'm not saying any of that. What I'm saying is: if you care enough, do something about it. If you don't, stop bitching about it. Simple as that. If you prefer to work at Britannica, please do so, that would be great. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:55, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
- Again, deliberately or not, you're missing the point. You opposed ITN/R items at ITN/C. Wrong. But I'm clearly wasting my time (as you have been). The Rambling Man (talk) 04:38, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
- Your original post above said nothing of ITN/R and ITN/C and instead seemed to suggest that my account had been compromised. If you wish to avoid wasting time, you might try getting to the point more directly. Myself, I have enjoyed this conversation. It's usually quite quiet here and it was interesting to look at Britannica's equivalent. Today, they lead on another "Behind the News" item: "British Go to the Polls". That seems quite topical as the election hasn't been out of the news for a month. But, apart from all the sport, ITN is discussing the Alberta general election, instead! Britannica again seems much better at highlighting what's actually in the news. Andrew D. (talk) 06:47, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
- ITN will certainly feature the British General Election, once the results are known and once the article is up to scratch. That's how unpaid volunteers who pull together to create a free encyclopedia work. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:53, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
A topic that I suspect may be of interest to you. Feel free to help expand this new article if you're interested. Some entries would benefit from descriptions, such as those housed in buildings that are Grade II listed. Cheers, North America1000 05:41, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, it has crossed my mind to create something like this but I never got around to it. I'll help expand it but Edwardx is the the one we really need to get involved as he has created many of the individual articles. Andrew D. (talk) 06:18, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply, for pinging a potentially interested user, and for your additions to the article. North America1000 06:38, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
Requested a dispute resolution here for an outside opinion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Safety_behaviors If you can, please add your side of the dispute so that this problem can be resolved. Thanks! GoldenCirclet (talk) 02:44, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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“I Was Kaiser Bill’s Batman”
Dear Andrew Davidson, on 6 March 2010 you created the article “I Was Kaiser Bill’s Batman”. That day you wrote there, among other facts, that John O’Neill was the whistler of that song. Later another Wikipedian was quite adamant on three occasions (17 July 2013, 12 August 2013, 19 May 2015) to remove John O'Neill from the article justifying this change by referring to the very same sources that you had put in there in the beginning. I’ve contacted the mentioned Wikipedian on his talk site but he insists on being right regarding the changes. But the current statement in the article (“This was credited to Whistling Jack Smith provided as a session musician by Mike Sammes of the Mike Sammes Singers”) sounds like Jack Smith was a real person and it doesn't say anything about the actual whistler of the song. But you are more knowledgable here. So, what do the mentioned sources actually say (Then, Now and Rare British Beat 1960-1969; Whistling in the wind for a good tune)? I don't have them. I got my knowledge regarding that article from some websites on the internet which might not be recognized as reliable sources by Wikipedia. Could you look at the article once more to clarify and correct it? (A couple of days ago I wrote you on your Colonel Warden talk site. But I'm not sure if you still use that account and regularly read messages there.) Best wishes (Stillbusy (talk) 09:02, 1 June 2015 (UTC))
RfA barnstars
Your Opinion is More Important than You Think Barnstar | ||
To Andrew Davidson, for expressing his opinion calmly under pressure. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:20, 4 June 2015 (UTC) |
I am dismayed to see the amount of hostility that you are receiving at the current RfA. Even though your viewpoint is clearly a minority one, you raise legitimate points. I myself !voted in support of the candidate, but I recognize that a difference of opinion should be respected. Best wishes. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:20, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- @Axl: Thanks. Such badgering of opposes is normal at RfA so I'm accustomed to it but it's good to have your support. And, whatever the immediate result, I sometimes get more accolades later. Recent examples from my career as Colonel Warden include: "Particular credit to the illustrious Col. Warden who noted during the RFA..."; "At this point Colonel Warden's sole Oppose turns out like some kind of genius..." Andrew D. (talk) 13:15, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- You've always spoken your mind at RfA, and I know you do a lot of content work and are a good editor. Nothing wrong with stating your opinion whatsoever. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:48, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
Wise words on here, agree completely. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:00, 18 September 2015 (UTC) |
Hi, thank you sooo much for defending most of my articles about Malacca/Malaysia in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Malaysia
I know it's not easy to write a full & complete information, with significant coverage from something that didn't exist before. That's why I guess we have Wikipedia to let the world knows that not only big things exists (e.g. United States, Europe, Obama), but smaller things which count thousands around us. Of course, due to the much smaller size of Malacca, things are 'smaller' here. Same like in Singapore, things are relatively smaller, but they do have almost complete articles on everything that exist there in the country.
I'll do my part in findings more information about those articles. If you can provide more information for the article, you are more than welcome to do it! (please do so T_T) It's not easy at all to find news resources from the internet, must go to visit each of that place to get extra info. At least I've written the name, native name, photo, coordinate, history, some of its exhibition/architecture info, opening time, make its wiki common page, include them into category etc. Even to get the photos of such places, I need to travel far away by car just to get 1 photo. It's not an easy thing at all. Of course since this is the beginning of the article, I only provide the minimum required information needed for it to be an article. Once the article is there, it will be much easier for other people (who knows more info of the subject) to add more information to it.
Chongkian (talk) 05:34, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
Birmingham Koran manuscript
What is it they say, about systemic bias? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:40, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Pigsonthewing: I have nominated this for DYK, as suggested. Myself, I'd now like to work upon floccinaucinihilipilification but find that it is fully protected to prevent me. What they say is that this is now “The encyclopedia that anyone who understands the norms, socializes him or herself, dodges the impersonal wall of semi-automated rejection and still wants to voluntarily contribute his or her time and energy can edit.” Andrew D. (talk) 12:59, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- Quite. BTW, there is now a news story about how big a news story the manuscript has become. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:19, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- To further highlight the inanity of the decision not to include this in ITN, the French Wikipedia currently features the manuscript in their equivalent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:20, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Pigsonthewing: That's interesting, thanks. It will be interesting to compare the effect on the traffic. Currently, the French page has had 3745 hits while the English one is still ahead with 4624. ITN isn't essential as readers will tend to find their way to topics in the news by other routes. It's a shame that you weren't at the AGM yesterday as I was hoping to talk to you about this and the RSC topics. Andrew D. (talk) 10:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
DYK hook
Thanks for nominating the DYK about the oldest manuscript of Quran. I'm here to suggest you to change the hook, although the current one is accepted to step toward main page. My suggestion is as follows:
...that the oldest manuscript of Quran (pictured), dating back to muhammad's era, is said to prove that "the text has undergone little or no alteration?"
My suggestion conveys what the current DYK is meant to say while has another important point within. What do you think? Mhhossein (talk) 05:32, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
- By choosing a bland, uncontroversial hook and moving quickly, a fast review and approval was achieved. Reopening the nomination is not a normal process and would invite dispute and delay. Perfect is the enemy of good. Andrew D. (talk) 06:55, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Mhhossein: After further consideration, I have reopened the nomination to propose an alternate hook. The discussion is open to all so you can propose your suggestion there too. Andrew D. (talk) 10:51, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for informing me. I made my proposal. Mhhossein (talk) 13:05, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:46, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Malvern pic
Hey Malvvern battle is at FAC. Are you sure the licensing etc on your pic are all perfect? Besides the location you placed it on the article is violation of MOSa• Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 13:28, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
- The image's author, licensing and formatting are similar to another existing image which appears in the article lower down. My concern was that there wasn't a good photograph of the battlefield. I started by considering replacing that second image but then decided that to add the image in the Geography section. I previewed having the image on the RHS but that didn't work so well because of the quote box. Andrew D. (talk) 13:47, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment on your comment on Signpost
In the comments about the Signpost article (re: incorrect information in DYK articles) you mentioned the exact time of the aircraft hitting the Pentagon, and suggested confusion about why 09:37:46 would be shortened to 09:37 instead of 09:38. I believe the answer to this is the fact that time and date notations do not necessarily refer to exact moments, but to ranges of time. If a child was born in December of 2014, we wouldn't round that and say she was born in 2015 just because the first day of 2015 was closer to her birth than the first day of 2014 was. Likewise, it is 09:37 from 09:37:00.0 until the moment the clock hits 09:38:00.0 and it is Saturday right up until it becomes Sunday, and not one second early. Anyway, happy editing! Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 07:04, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Etamni: I take your point but it depends on the context. If we were to agree to meet at 3 o'clock, you might reasonably be upset if I didn't turn up until quarter to four. In the case of Flight 77, those 46 seconds make quite a difference as the plane would have flown about 7 miles in that time. If you're watching a video of the event (which the article has) then waiting 46 seconds to reach the exact moment seems like a long time. So, it's best to be accurate and consistent in this case. Andrew D. (talk) 07:27, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
- I agree that it would be more concise to specify the exact second of the impact. Regarding the 3 o'clock analogy, a quarter to four is just being fashionably late :) Actually, "3 o'clock" is usually considered to be the minute of 3:00:00.0 until the clock hits 3:01:00.0, so showing up at a quarter to four is fairly late. Although the range analogy works for most time and date terms, in English, we don't have good terms that refer to the hours, except by explicitly mentioning that we mean the hour (e.g. between three and four, or the six o'clock hour) but yes, context is king. Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 07:22, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Wikimeets
Hello! I'm running a survey to identify the best way to notify Wikimedians about upcoming UK wikimeets (informal, in-person social meetings of Wikimedians), and to see if we can improve UK wikimeets to make them accessible and attractive to more editors and readers. All questions are optional, and it will take about 10 minutes to complete. Please fill it in at:
Thanks! Mike Peel (talk) 18:36, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
Alberta PRODs
Hi Andrew, for what reasons are you removing the prods of this non-notables after the minimum seven days? Hwy43 (talk) 20:29, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
So a PROD notice can be removed in the time between the expiry of the seven days and an administrator processing it? Hwy43 (talk) 20:35, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
- Yes. Even if the article were deleted, I could have it restored per WP:PROD, "Even after it has been deleted, a PRODed article can be restored by anybody through an automated request for undeletion. " WP:PROD also explains that "PROD must only be used if no opposition to the deletion is expected." It therefore does not seem appropriate for such articles which seem to be good faith entries on which significant effort has been expended. Andrew D. (talk) 20:42, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Very well. Though disappointed, I appreciate the explanation. Hwy43 (talk) 20:46, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Books and Bytes - Issue 13
Books & Bytes
Issue 13, August-September 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)
- New donations - EBSCO, IMF, more newspaper archives, and Arabic resources
- Expansion into new languages, including Viet and Catalan
- Spotlight: Elsevier partnership garners controversy, dialogue
- Conferences: PKP, IFLA, upcoming events
The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:29, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Accounts
Per this policy, please connect your alternate accounts to this account. BMK (talk) 21:13, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
- I put templates on them already but if you want to check them out, the list is
- Your "Major Vex" account is linked to "Colonel Warden", not to your current account. BMK (talk) 02:54, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- That account was not active then or now and so is just listed for completeness. Colonel Warden was my main account at the time and is semi-retired. I still look in on it to check its notifications as it gets quite a lot. The priority right now seems to be RfA, as that's on a timetable. Andrew D. (talk) 07:35, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
- Your "Major Vex" account is linked to "Colonel Warden", not to your current account. BMK (talk) 02:54, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
I thought you should know that you were mentioned here, as it didn't seem you had been notified by ping or otherwise. Samsara 00:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
Eclectic variety
Hi Andrew. I thought I'd bring conversation over here as I detest long threaded discussion at RfAs - it's just not fair on the candidate. I hope you don't mind. You mention that Thine Antique Pen's contributions are formulaic, I do agree that he does spates of formulaic creation, and I believe that's been a way of participating in the Wikicup. But the articles he's written well don't appear to be formulaic at all - paintings, volcanoes on the moon, Wheelchair basketball players, military history. All are a selection the good articles he's written over the years. I struggle to see how he's got a narrow approach in general. WormTT(talk) 13:20, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- I take your point and will look through these and other articles when I have more time. But the comments of user Yngvadottir also concern me - the candidate may still too much of a point-scoring attitude and this might carry through to their behaviour as an admin. I'll keep an eye on the RfA and reconsider after we have more input. Andrew D. (talk) 08:00, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Worm That Turned: I have just studied those topics more closely. I give the candidate full marks for attempting varied and difficult topics but am now quite concerned about some aspects of this work. The Compton–Belkovich Thorium Anomaly is a challenging technical topic, which seems to have been written from scratch. If we look at the state of it before other editors got involved, it seems quite weak to the point of being incoherent. For example, the sentence, "It only appears when there is the highest amount of concentrated Thorium possible." doesn't make any sense and so seems to have been written without understanding.
- The article Battle of Besançon starts better but seems to have been translated from the French wikipedia. For example, consider the translation of the following sentence:
La majorité des protagonistes protestants parviennent cependant à s'enfuir ; les assaillants capturés sont quant à eux pendus avec les Bisontins réputés traîtres.
The majority of the Protestant army managed to escape, but those who were captured were hanged with traitors. - That doesn't read quite right because the context for the word traîtres has been dropped. Another editor then comes along and copy edits this and the original meaning is then garbled:
The majority of the Protestant army managed to escape, but those who were captured were hanged as traitors.
- What's especially shocking, in this case, is that there seems to have been no attribution of the original authors of the French article. This is contrary to the best practice given at WP:CWW#Translating from other language Wikimedia projects. As the candidate has claimed both DYK and GA credit for the article, without seeming to mention its origin in those processes, this seems to be unacceptable plagiarism, "Do not make the work of others look like your own. Give credit where it is due." Andrew D. (talk) 09:16, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
DYK for Theyre Lee-Elliott
Thanks for supporting Wikipedia and the DYK project Victuallers (talk) 13:26, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
October 2015 GOCE newsletter
Guild of Copy Editors October 2015 Newsletter
September drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in last month's backlog-reduction drive. Of the 25 editors who signed up, 18 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here. October blitz: The one-week October blitz, targeting requests, has just concluded. Of the nine editors who signed up, seven copyedited at least one request; check your talk page for your barnstar! The month-long November drive, focusing on our oldest backlog articles (June, July, and August 2014) and the October requests, is just around the corner. Hope to see you there! Thanks again for your support; together, we can improve the encyclopedia! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978, KieranTribe, Miniapolis and Pax85. To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:54, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Halloween cheer!
A barnstar for you!
The Special Barnstar | |
For almost making 5 millionth article. It shouldn't really matter who "won", but somehow, apparently, it does... Samsara 13:11, 1 November 2015 (UTC) |
Hello Andrew, thanks for creating that article. I was able to expand it but I couldn't make it expand any further than 1,350 characters. I thought it would be nice to get the article to at least start class and possibly a DYK. But I couldn't found anything else to expand the article. Do you found anything else in a search? I don't have access to HighBeam or Jstor, maybe there could be additional sources. Jim Carter 15:46, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Missing source
Much appreciated if you could list where you obtained this :File:Royal Rock Beagles by John Dalby 1845.png in the relevant field on the page. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:56, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
- I have created an article about the artist John Dalby (painter). Andrew D. (talk) 22:51, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
File:Vintage red.jpg listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Vintage red.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 13:57, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
DYK for KIC 8462852
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
Brush pot
Another interesting article, I have tried to expand it and was able to make it eligible for DYK. I took the liberty to nominate it myself, hope you didn't mind? And thanks again for starting this interesting articles! Looking forward to work with you again. Jim Carter 11:52, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for this, I really haven't noticed that. Jim Carter 17:22, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Being Human - Revealing Local History
Andrew, we're a bit thin on attendees: Wikipedia:Meetups/UK/Senate House Library Nov 2015. All publicity welcome! Edwardx (talk) 14:34, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
- @Edwardx: My thought is that you should ping editors who are active on London topics. People like Chiswick Chap and the crowd that edit articles like Sutton High Street. Of course, be careful what you wish for ... Andrew D. (talk) 14:42, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
This Month in GLAM: October 2015
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Pottery Throw Down
The Original Barnstar | |
Great work on The Great Pottery Throw Down and Keith Brymer Jones articles, I created Kate Malone last night and planned to do the other two tonight, you beat me to it! Theroadislong (talk) 18:56, 14 November 2015 (UTC) |
- Thanks. Sorry to steal your thunder but I started the Great British Bake Off and Paul Hollywood when they were unknown and this show seemed a worthy successor. Andrew D. (talk) 20:27, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
List of British engineers
Please see my note at Talk:List of British engineers. Is this what you have in mind or are you proposing a list of engineers who already have Wikipedia pages as in List of Cornish engineers and inventors? Biscuittin (talk) 12:24, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
I have agreed, in principle, to move List of British engineers and their patents to User:Biscuittin/List of lesser-known British engineers. Is this OK with you? Biscuittin (talk) 21:15, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
- As there have been no objections, I intend to move the page tomorrow, 28 Nov 2015. Biscuittin (talk) 11:52, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for the warning. I have commented at the discussion. Andrew D. (talk) 17:34, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
- The article has suddenly been deleted. I have re-created it at User:Biscuittin/List of lesser-known British engineers but the edit history has been lost. What do you want to do about List of British engineers? Biscuittin (talk) 20:12, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
- As there have been no objections, I intend to move the page tomorrow, 28 Nov 2015. Biscuittin (talk) 11:52, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
WP:ROUTINE, etc.
Hey. I wanted to stop by your talk page, and see if I could address your concerns away from the heated discussion on the WP:N talk page. I spend more than half my time editing sports-related articles, and we make frequent reference to WP:ROUTINE in sports-related AfDs in determining the notability of athletes, games and rivalries. For daily news coverage of events, I see WP:GNG, WP:NOTNEWS, WP:ROUTINE and WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE forming an overlapping, interlocking and usually complementary set of principles regarding news events and the persons covered as part of them. Sometimes, WP:BLP1E and WP:BIO1E may into play, too. None of these guidelines are intended to exclude obviously notable events or persons, and usually only come into play for subjects of very marginal notability. So, talk to me -- I want to see if we can thrash this out and address what concerns you may have. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:44, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- I don't focus on sports so much and so suppose that we have different perspectives for this reason. One concern I have is that a simple word like ROUTINE might easily be interpreted in a non-sports context and so we'd get considerable creep. But these points are best made at WP:N where there's a particular issue under debate. Andrew D. (talk) 21:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Well, WP:ROUTINE is commonly used in non-sports contexts too, but probably not as frequently as in sports. Events like Prime Minister's Questions for December 2, 2015, an individual Monday Night Football game, and last week's Arsenal vs. Tottenham match are clearly intended to be excluded, because there is almost no in-depth coverage beyond the typical news cycle, and they are often better covered as part of a larger topic. I'm happy to move this back to the WP:N talk page, but I don't want you to think I'm trying to hoodwink you into a result you're trying to avoid. Sometimes user talk page discussions are calmer and more personal. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:21, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- For sports, commonplace fixtures are included but they seem to be distilled into pages such as 2015 New York Yankees season. I expect that this is done mainly for practical reasons – baseball is played every day and it would be too much work to create pages at that rate. Such pages of results are contrary to the intent of WP:NOTSTATSBOOK but the fans create them regardless. So it goes. Andrew D. (talk) 08:28, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Correct. Season articles are one of the outlets for content related to regular season games; if something particularly noteworthy happened in a particular regular season game, it can almost always be covered in a sentence or two in the season article rather than creating a stand-alone article for an individual regular season game. The season articles are analogous to lists in that regard. There will be occasional exceptions for individual games whose coverage clearly exceeds the threshold standards of WP:GNG, WP:EVENT, WP:ROUTINE and WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE, and for which stand-alone articles are appropriate. The season articles should not exist as bare lists of game results. Of course, the problem is that many editors find it easy to add game results to schedule tables, but difficult to write the accompanying narrative text that explains the results in the context of the overall season. I share your frustration in that regard, and have made a bit of nuisance of myself around several of the sports WikiProjects by suggesting that if editors can't be bothered to add several paragraphs of meaningful sourced text to these season articles, they ought not to be created at all. You can imagine how that has been received. And so it goes. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:11, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Seeking advice
Can I submit my proposals for placing tag of page deletion at Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy? Your advice is requested. Nannadeem (talk) 13:29, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Tech News: 2015-50
17:52, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
DYK for The Foundery
Allen3 talk 00:20, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Books and Bytes - Issue 14
Books & Bytes
Issue 14, October-November 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)
- New donations - Gale, Brill, plus Finnish and Farsi resources
- Open Access Week recap, and DOIs, Wikipedia, and scholarly citations
- Spotlight: 1Lib1Ref - a citation drive for librarians
The Interior, via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:12, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
This Month in GLAM: November 2015
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Aviation in Indonesia DYK
Hi Andrew: Thanks for your opinion at the discussion page. I had to base my review upon the rules; so it goes. Per your IAR notion there of possibly moving forward with the nomination anyway, here's some ALTS I initially provided at the nomination page, prior to realizing that the article ultimately doesn't qualify per the rules. ‹The template Facepalm is being considered for deletion.› Facepalm North America1000 11:30, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks but I reckon there must be a better hook out there there we still haven't found. Something about kite fishing, perhaps ... Andrew D. (talk) 13:21, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
RfA
Andrew, I'm saddened to see you pursuing you usual manner of participation at RfA. I realise that you very occasionally support candidates but this vote once again demonstrate a clear pattern that has emerged over the years including your work as Colonel Warden. We are trying to make adminship a more interesting prospect for users of the right calibre but the style and relevance of the voting is exactly what discourages them. I'm sure you will understand that I and other users now feel it is possibly getting close to the time for the broader community to comment in another venue on what appears to be your agenda. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
- I don't want to pile on at the RfA, but I'd like to add that implying the candidate's gender, or disclosure thereof, has anything to do with their suitability as an admin is totally inappropriate. Sam Walton (talk) 11:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC)