Volunteer Marek (talk | contribs) No edit summary |
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:Send exactly 47.52$ to this [https://www.givedirectly.org/give-now charity]. In the "How did you hear about us" field enter this code: r3ddVM!44Wkpd. The HRC campaign will get back to you with sekrit instructions shortly. But don't tell anyone.[[User:Volunteer Marek|Volunteer Marek]] ([[User talk:Volunteer Marek#top|talk]]) 01:49, 2 August 2016 (UTC) |
:Send exactly 47.52$ to this [https://www.givedirectly.org/give-now charity]. In the "How did you hear about us" field enter this code: r3ddVM!44Wkpd. The HRC campaign will get back to you with sekrit instructions shortly. But don't tell anyone.[[User:Volunteer Marek|Volunteer Marek]] ([[User talk:Volunteer Marek#top|talk]]) 01:49, 2 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== American politics == |
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Hi, I've noticed you seem to be editing articles on the current American political situation from a certain ideological {{WP:NPOV|point of view}}. That a no-no - see [[WP:ARBAPDS]]. I suggest that if you feel strongly about Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump you should stay far away from their articles or any associated with them or American politics. [[User:Kelly|<span style="color:#060;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;cursor:help">'''Kelly'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Kelly|hi!]]</sup> 20:53, 2 August 2016 (UTC) |
Revision as of 20:53, 2 August 2016
Genetics for ethnic groups RfC
Given that you expressed a desperate interest in such an RfC, Hebel has posted it here. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:15, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
- Just a reminder that, should you be interested, you still have a chance to !vote at the Should sections on genetics be removed from pages on ethnic groups? RfC. After your edit on Slavs, I suspect that you have a strong opinion on the matter worthy of voicing. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:35, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
Your rude manners
@Volunteer Marek: Those statistics are government reports compiled by a Bengali judge. And keep in mind your language is being reported. Wait to get a permanent block due to your manners. Pro Tip: I am about to commence work on a page dealing with rape of Chakma women by Bangladeshi Army, please do not interfere.Towns_Hill 04:52, 15 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Towns Hill (talk • contribs)
- My manners are fine. And those "statistics" are crap.Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:12, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
Your recent edits
Hello. these your edits [1] are unconsensused and even unexplained at talk while the page is under 1rr. The rules on secondary sources just say "Articles should rely on secondary sources whenever possible" (WP:SCHOLARSHIP). It doesn't mean we should delete primary sources everywhere in Wikipedia (especially in the articles dedicated to recent events). Thank you. OptimusView (talk) 05:59, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm going to guess that "unconsensused" is a clumsy way of saying "no consensus!". But then the text needs to be removed. It's those who want to *add* text that need to get consensus.
- And why is it that whenever someone quotes the policy on primary sources, they're always invoking the possible exception? As if every single use of primary sources fell under that one exception? It doesn't. We don't use primary sources for controversial stuff. And if you do want to use them for controversial stuff, then again, the burden to obtain consensus is on you.
- And the discussion here does seem to support removing this section.
- Finally, this section is based mostly on crap sources like breitbart.com.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:08, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
AA2
Please carefully read this information:
The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding Armenia, Azerbaijan, or related conflicts, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.Template:Z33 OptimusView (talk) 06:04, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
Your removal of talk page reply and section
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Holocaust_revisionism&diff=720509695&oldid=720503354
You did not explain your reasons justifying this revert. Could you do so now? --Ranze (talk) 05:14, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Reference errors on 24 May
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:
- On the Slavs page, your edit caused a cite error (help). ( | )
Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can . Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:25, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
EllenCT's disruptive editing
There is a case pending regarding EllenCT's disruptive edits to Economic stagnation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Numerous_problems_with_an_editor_of_Economic_stagnationPhmoreno (talk)
EllenCT failed to listen and is back to disruptive edits to Economic stagnation. Is there any way we can have her banned from this topic?Phmoreno (talk) 02:03, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
Arbitration Enforcement
As promised: [2]. --Dorpater (talk) 19:18, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
First, please don't follow my edits to perform silly "revenge reverts" [3]. You had never edited this page before, so you have now obviously taken to stalking my edits. As far as the issue is concerned, it is standard knowledge in political science that Endecja represented the extreme-right camp during the interwar period, it is absurd to deny it.
Finally, could you now stop with the baseless and very offensive insinuations that I'm someone's sock puppet, ok? The allegations are wrong and I thought we had covered the issue already. Dorpater (talk) 20:50, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
You have helped Wikipedia appear messy and bizarre
Keep up the good work! InedibleHulk (talk) 03:04, May 31, 2016 (UTC)
- I need a Cracked barnstar.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:20, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Okay
Because you said please I'll stop. Please play nicer with other editors. Reply so I know you got this and I'll stop immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8805:DC01:3E00:A904:E52A:78D5:FE0D (talk) 23:52, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Are you going to reply and finish this or are we still playing games? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8805:DC01:3E00:311E:85EF:7AD1:44DE (talk) 16:35, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Some observations
Dear Marek, I've had a little talk with EllenCT about her editing style, and to keep it balanced, I should leave some unsolicited advice for you as well.
I've been reading the Economic Growth talk page, and a few things occurred to me that I should mention to you. I think it would be helpful if were be a little less sure in your statements, and be a little bit more willing to listen and compromise – it would come off as less abrasive. To be frank, I think you've overstated your level of certainty about some economic issues. To identify a couple, I don't think it's settled that demand issues cannot affect growth. Summers, De Long etc make the argument that there is hysteresis in economic growth, and that long periods of economic stagnation can depress growth afterwards. Also, I think the literature is still out about whether inequality is bad for growth, but it's leaning heavily that way. I'ld say that empirically, most studies support the contention that higher inequality is associated with lower growth.
I notice that you and Ellen have disagreements about what are secondary sources. I think what Ellen wants to see are closer to tertiary sources in our conception. A good source would be the New Palgrave, and the various field handbooks (e.g. the Handbook of Economic Growth). The articles in those frequently survey the literature, and reflect the current consensus in the field. I think when there is disagreement about what the consensus in the field is, it's more helpful to quote from the articles in the field handbooks, rather than individual papers.
Lastly, you need to relax and tone down a little bit. For instance, this statement was not polite. At the end of the day, thinks will only be settled if you get others to agree with you (or at least, not actively disagree with you). Negativity doesn't help that. The way to do that is by bringing in good quality sources, no matter how much of a pain it is to google up stuff that you already know. (Actually, it's not a complete waste of time to do that. A few times, after being forced to look up the literature, I found out that my understanding of the literature was wrong.)
Let me end by saying that I've always found you to be an excellent contributor, and that I really appreciate how you have cleaned up many economics pages. I know it's hard editing with people who are unfamiliar with the literature, but that's the Wikipedia way. At the end of the day, we can only get stuff to stick if we convince non-experts that what we write accurately reflects consensus in the literature – and the only way to do that is to bring in the best sources available. LK (talk) 10:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I appreciate your comment. But please realize that the latest tone of my comments to EllenCT is a result of months, even years, long discussion with that editor - and it's well deserved. The discussion has reached a point - actually, quite some time ago - where constructive dialogue is not possible. EllenCT just insists on repeating the same thing and accusing anyone who doesn't agree with her of having a "supply side agenda" (whatever that is). And it's not like I'm unique in my frustration. I mean, she even got banned from Jimbo's talk page for this stuff. At the end of the day, unless SHE makes a dramatic change to her editing approach, there's really nothing to discuss here.
- As to the substance of the issues. First, I'm quite sympathetic to the view that greater inequality creates a drag on growth. And I do agree with you that the literature is finding some evidence for this view. However, the argument is actually NOT about whether inequality matters for growth. EllenCT's POV is that inequality is the MAIN and possibly ONLY determinant of growth. And there's absolutely no support for that in the literature. Yes, we do have an obligation to try to explain the literature to non-specialists on Wikipedia, but the other side of that coin is that they have to be willing to listen. We don't have that here.
- As to the primary vs. secondary source issue, if you read carefully read through all the past discussions you'll notice that EllenCT's definition of what is a "literature review" and what is a "secondary source" tends to change according to whether a source supports her POV or not. Regardless, both papers which include original research and literature reviews (like from JEL or JEP) are acceptable on Wikipedia so this is actually moot, and I don't see why I should even devote any more time to arguing about what constitutes a "secondary source".
- And oh yeah, hysterisis. There might be a reason to put something about it in the article. But even in the whole Blanchard etc. at best the presence of hysterisis would only have a LEVEL effect (higher steady state unemployment rate) not a growth effect, no? So even there the connection to economic growth as a topic is tenuous and it should not be overemphasized in the article.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:01, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I understand and sympathize with what you are saying. However, it behooves us as academics to be polite and generous in our interactions. I know, I'm the pot preaching to the kettle here, but still, it doesn't help to be negative. Calm neutral statements are best. Warm regards, LK (talk) 04:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
{sigh} You were right, and I was wrong. Sorry, LK (talk) 07:49, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Lawrencekhoo: On the contrary, you are still correct above, including in your characterization of what is and is not a reliable secondary source. That you are willing to capitulate your voice of conscience merely because I have decided to remain opposed to systemic bias is an excllelent illustration of your part in perpetuating that bias. EllenCT (talk) 12:14, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
- EllenCT, continuing to comment on this matter, here or elsewhere, could constitute a violation of your topic ban. The point of that ban is for you to walk away from the issue.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:48, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Amanda Marcotte
My two cents, if you want to move this to the talk section of the page as well, that is fine. The material that I removed is all primary sourced material. It comes off as POV pushing without having secondary sources to back up its inclusion. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 23:53, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's just a list of some of the things she's published recently. How is that POV? Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:20, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
- Writers publish lots of things, thats what they do. Unless its gains recognition elsewhere and has a conversation around it, its inclusion seems more promotional than informational. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 00:42, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
- You know what? I think I actually agree. So I'll let it be.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:26, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
- Writers publish lots of things, thats what they do. Unless its gains recognition elsewhere and has a conversation around it, its inclusion seems more promotional than informational. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 00:42, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
justification
Would you please justify this? Have you checked the sources of the content you remove?--77.69.80.202 (talk) 08:29, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
EllenCT administrators' notice board
Hello Volunteer Marek:
I reported EllenCT for disruptive editing of Economic stagnation
[[4]]
She also reinserted a section on inequality in Economic growth.Phmoreno (talk) 14:14, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
- You don't need to actually notify me of these things - those articles are on my watchlist and I'll be sure to catch it myself.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:21, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
- Adding evidence piecemeal is also not going to be very helpful. You need a concise statement that demonstrates the problem with evidence, not diffs scattered over a long thread that no-one is going to bother reading. GoldenRing (talk) 16:30, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
- You may be right but you know, I got other time constraints, and doing it piecemeal is really all I got time for now.Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:21, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
- Adding evidence piecemeal is also not going to be very helpful. You need a concise statement that demonstrates the problem with evidence, not diffs scattered over a long thread that no-one is going to bother reading. GoldenRing (talk) 16:30, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
I see you've changed your tune.
From unfairly dismissing complaints about EllenCT's conduct as "opportunistic assholery" [5] last year to describing her in the new ANI almost word for word the same way I and others did [6]. Extended experience with her can do that. Good. I understand that charges against her can seem incredible or exaggerated until one experiences her antics first hand for a prolonged period of time. I tried hard to find common ground and collaborate with her for a long time, but after dealing with her on multiple articles and topics over the years I reached the point a couple of years ago that you apparently did recently. I can and have worked with people who don't understand a topic but are willing to learn, I can and have worked with good faith editors with political views that differ strongly from mine, but I can't work with someone who lies about what a source says and then persists in the lie after being called on it. And then proceeds to lie to try and discredit other editors or get them baselessly sanctioned. Better late than never. Wikipedia is much better off today. VictorD7 (talk) 19:45, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, the difference is that Phmoreno has changed their approach to editing a lot. For the better. Back then they had their own problems with pushing fringe-y theories and giving them undue weight but they've really learned a lot in the mean time. They're a very good editor now. On the other hand, the problems with EllenCT just got worse and worse. So yeah, people change, facts change, and when they do, I change my mind. It's what you're suppose to do.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:17, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
- Given the context, I didn't realize your comment back then was directed at Phmoreno (the op). Phmoreno was relatively new at the time so I'm not surprised he's learned the ropes since then. But EllenCT was doing the same things then and before that she's been doing recently (as has been repeatedly documented). If anything she seems to have mellowed out a little in certain narrow regards, though the basic pattern of misconduct is the same. I appreciate your open mindedness. VictorD7 (talk) 00:37, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
FYI
I have closed down the RFC's here and here as they are malformed messes which are not going to go anywhere. If you wish to re-open them, please rephrase them into a more appropriate RFC, otherwise standard discussion on the talkpage should suffice. I am also notifying the other likely contributors. Regards. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:55, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
3rr on Grand Duchy of Lithuania
Hello User:Volunteer Marek, on the matter concerning User:Craft27by I've submitted a report here. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 23:40, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
Wołyń
Hi VM, just wanted to follow up on the Wołyń Massacre article, one of my thoughts is that perhaps in the Lead Section, we should avoid emphasizing individual historians. The lead is the most direct section of the article which should focus on the most basic facts of what happened, and when you have names of some random historian it places that personality on the level of the event. My suggestion would be to omit names of historian all together from the Lead. The article is about the Wołyń Massacre, not Snyder's views and commentary of it. In short, I would be against including a name of any historian in the Lead Section of an WP article.--E-960 (talk) 19:44, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
- Apologies, I should not have removed the entire statement and source that was a wrong call, I went ahead and kept the statement, but took out reference to Snyder and co. As noted earlier, perhaps the Lead should only focus on the event and not side track itself with dropping names of various historians. --E-960 (talk) 17:27, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello. Do you have a close connection to Debbie Wasserman Schultz? You have been removing lots of referenced criticisms about her. Wikipedia articles are not supposed to be advertisements.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah, she turned me on to Pokemon Go. Wikipedia articles are not suppose to be political hit pieces.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:46, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- No, they should be fair and balanced. That includes criticisms. Anyway, she is resigning...Zigzig20s (talk) 21:58, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- "Fair and balanced" eh? You're sort of signaling your POV there. They should not be political hit pieces and the fact she's resigning is beside the point.Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:48, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- No, they should be fair and balanced. That includes criticisms. Anyway, she is resigning...Zigzig20s (talk) 21:58, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Your edits on DNC member/officials pages
Please use the Talk feature before removing legitimate content on DNC member/officials' pages. Your edit history suggests an agenda; this is an editorial community and edits which are controversial need to be discussed. ConsciousCopyWriter (talk) 03:42, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
You continue to cite consensus needed when other editors add factual information supported by sources. You do not have authority to sanction. ConsciousCopyWriter (talk) 03:47, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Please see the discretionary sanctions notice on that page.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:14, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Also, I'd appreciate it if you cut it out with the baseless accusations.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:15, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Discretionary sanctions
I wanted to let you know that only admins can place an article under discretionary sanctions, and it has to be logged. I mention this because this is the second time that I've seen you have done this. Perhaps you meant to use another template warning editors that an article may be placed under discretionary sanctions?- MrX 12:37, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
- (talk page watcher) Surely it is already under DS...? Being post-1932 political America :) Muffled Pocketed 12:41, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
- See WP:ARBAPDS. Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people." In other words, any admin can place any article within the scope of this remedy under standard discretionary sanctions. Prior to this decision, Arbcom had to do it.- MrX 13:46, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
Slightly confused
Do you have any idea why I got a notification from this that you had mentioned me in a comment? I can't see any reason why it would... maybe a glitch in the software? Anyhow, just curious if you knew of any reason that I can't see. Cheers! Crazynas t 09:06, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- I have no idea. Wiki software has been really buggy lately.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:08, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- Oh wait, I think I know. I initially used { these guys instead of [ these guys, which copied Doc's user page to the article talk page. If you were mentioned somewhere there, then you got mentioned there. I fixed it within seconds.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:09, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Favor
I also have experience on Wikipedia and would like to work for the HRC campaign. Can you tell me how you started with them? Should I contact the campaign directly or the CTR pac? Thanks. 107.77.224.85 (talk) 01:17, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
- Send exactly 47.52$ to this charity. In the "How did you hear about us" field enter this code: r3ddVM!44Wkpd. The HRC campaign will get back to you with sekrit instructions shortly. But don't tell anyone.Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:49, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
American politics
Hi, I've noticed you seem to be editing articles on the current American political situation from a certain ideological
All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.
NPOV is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and of other Wikimedia projects. It is also one of Wikipedia's three core content policies; the other two are "Verifiability" and "No original research". These policies jointly determine the type and quality of material acceptable in Wikipedia articles, and because they work in harmony, they should not be interpreted in isolation from one another. Editors are strongly encouraged to familiarize themselves with all three.
This policy is non-negotiable, and the principles upon which it is based cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, nor by editor consensus.
Explanation
Achieving what the Wikipedia community understands as neutrality means carefully and critically analyzing a variety of reliable sources and then attempting to convey to the reader the information contained in them fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without editorial bias. Wikipedia aims to describe disputes, but not engage in them. The aim is to inform, not influence. Editors, while naturally having their own points of view, should strive in good faith to provide complete information and not to promote one particular point of view over another. As such, the neutral point of view does not mean the exclusion of certain points of view; rather, it means including all verifiable points of view which have sufficient due weight. Observe the following principles to help achieve the level of neutrality that is appropriate for an encyclopedia:
- Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that genocide is an evil action but may state that genocide has been described by John So-and-so as the epitome of human evil.
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Achieving neutrality
- See the NPOV tutorial and NPOV examples.
Generally, do not remove sourced information from the encyclopedia solely because it seems biased. Instead, try to rewrite the passage or section to achieve a more neutral tone. Biased information can usually be balanced with material cited to other sources to produce a more neutral perspective, so such problems should be fixed when possible through the normal editing process. Remove material when you have a good reason to believe it misinforms or misleads readers in ways that cannot be addressed by rewriting the passage. The sections below offer specific guidance on common problems.
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Pay attention to headers, footnotes, or other formatting elements that might unduly favor one point of view or one aspect of the subject, and watch out for structural or stylistic aspects that make it difficult for a reader to fairly and equally assess the credibility of all relevant and related viewpoints.[b]
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Balancing aspects
An article should not give undue weight to minor aspects of its subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight proportional to its treatment in the body of reliable, published material on the subject. For example, a description of isolated events, quotes, criticisms, or news reports related to one subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic. This is a concern especially for recent events that may be in the news.
Giving "equal validity" can create a false balance
- See: False balance
When considering "due impartiality" ... [we are] careful when reporting on science to make a distinction between an opinion and a fact. When there is a consensus of opinion on scientific matters, providing an opposite view without consideration of "due weight" can lead to "false balance", meaning that viewers might perceive an issue to be more controversial than it actually is. This does not mean that scientists cannot be questioned or challenged, but that their contributions must be properly scrutinised. Including an opposite view may well be appropriate, but [it] must clearly communicate the degree of credibility that the view carries.
—BBC Trust's policy on science reporting 2011[1]
See updated report from 2014.[2]
While it is important to account for all significant viewpoints on any topic, Wikipedia policy does not state or imply that every minority view, fringe theory, or extraordinary claim needs to be presented along with commonly accepted mainstream scholarship as if they were of equal validity. There are many such beliefs in the world, some popular and some little-known: claims that the Earth is flat, that the Knights Templar possessed the Holy Grail, that the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax, and similar ones. Conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, speculative history, or plausible but unaccepted theories should not be legitimized through comparison to accepted academic scholarship. We do not take a stand on these issues as encyclopedia writers, for or against; we merely omit this information where including it would unduly legitimize it, and otherwise include and describe these ideas in their proper context concerning established scholarship and the beliefs of the wider world.
Selecting sources
In principle, all articles should be based on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. When writing about a topic, basing content on the best respected and most authoritative reliable sources helps to prevent bias, undue weight, and other NPOV disagreements. Try the library for reputable books and journal articles, and look online for the most reliable resources. If you need help finding high-quality sources, ask other editors on the talk page of the article you are working on, or ask at the reference desk.
Bias in sources
A common argument in a dispute about reliable sources is that one source is biased, meaning another source should be given preference. Some editors argue that biased sources should not be used because they introduce improper POV to an article. However, biased sources are not inherently disallowed based on bias alone, although other aspects of the source may make it invalid. A neutral point of view should be achieved by balancing the bias in sources based on the weight of the opinion in reliable sources and not by excluding sources that do not conform to the editor's point of view. This does not mean any biased source must be used; it may well serve an article better to exclude the material altogether.
Impartial tone
Wikipedia describes disputes. Wikipedia does not engage in disputes. A neutral characterization of disputes requires presenting viewpoints with a consistently impartial tone; otherwise, articles end up as partisan commentaries even while presenting all relevant points of view. Even where a topic is presented in terms of facts rather than opinions, inappropriate tones can be introduced through how facts are selected, presented, or organized. Neutral articles are written with a tone that provides an unbiased, accurate, and proportionate representation of all positions included in the article.
The tone of Wikipedia articles should be impartial, neither endorsing nor rejecting a particular point of view. Try not to quote directly from participants engaged in a heated dispute; instead, summarize and present the arguments in an impartial, formal tone.
Describing aesthetic opinions and reputations
Wikipedia articles about art and other creative topics (e.g., musicians, actors, books, etc.) have a tendency to become effusive. This is out of place in an encyclopedia. Aesthetic opinions are diverse and subjective—we might not all agree about who the world's greatest soprano is. However, it is appropriate to note how an artist or a work has been received by prominent experts, critics, and the general public. For instance, the article on Shakespeare should note that he is widely considered one of the greatest authors in the English language by both scholars and the general public. It should not, however, state that Shakespeare is the greatest author in the English language. More generally, it is sometimes permissible to note a subject's reputation when that reputation is widespread and potentially informative or of interest to readers. Articles on creative works should provide an overview of their common interpretations, preferably with citations to experts holding those interpretations. Verifiable public and scholarly critiques provide a useful context for works of art.
Words to watch
There are no forbidden words or expressions on Wikipedia, but certain expressions should be used with care because they may introduce bias. For example, the word claim, as in "Jim claimed he paid for the sandwich", could imply a lack of credibility. Using this or other expressions of doubt may make an article appear to promote one position over another. Try to state the facts more simply without using such loaded words; for example, "Jim said he paid for the sandwich". Strive to eliminate flattering expressions, disparaging, vague, or clichéd, or that endorse a particular point of view (unless those expressions are part of a quote from noteworthy sources).
Handling neutrality disputes
Attributing and specifying biased statements
Biased statements of opinion can be presented only with in-text attribution. For instance, "John Doe is the best baseball player" expresses an opinion and must not be asserted in Wikipedia as if it were a fact. It can be included as a factual statement about the opinion: "John Doe's baseball skills have been praised by baseball insiders such as Al Kaline and Joe Torre." Opinions must still be verifiable and appropriately cited.
Another approach is to specify or substantiate the statement, by giving those details that actually are factual. For example: "John Doe had the highest batting average in the major leagues from 2003 through 2006." People may still argue over whether he was the best baseball player, but they will not argue over this.
Avoid the temptation to rephrase biased or opinion statements with weasel words, for example, "Many people think John Doe is the best baseball player." Which people? How many? ("Most people think" is acceptable only when supported by at least one published survey.)
Point-of-view forks
A POV fork is an attempt to evade the neutrality policy by creating a new article about a subject that is already treated in an article, often to avoid or highlight negative or positive viewpoints or facts. POV forks are not permitted on Wikipedia.
All facts and significant points of view on a given subject should be treated in one article except in the case of a spinoff sub-article. Some topics are so large that one article cannot reasonably cover all facets of the topic, so a spinoff sub-article is created. For example, Evolution as fact and theory is a sub-article of Evolution, and Creation–evolution controversy is a sub-article of Creationism. This type of split is permissible only if written from a neutral point of view and must not be an attempt to evade the consensus process at another article.
Making necessary assumptions
When writing articles, there may be cases where making some assumptions is necessary to get through a topic. For example, in writing about evolution, it is not helpful to hash out the creation-evolution controversy on every page. There are virtually no topics that could proceed without making some assumptions that someone would find controversial. This is true not only in evolutionary biology but also in philosophy, history, physics, etc.
It is difficult to draw up a rule, but the following principle may help: there is probably not a good reason to discuss some assumption on a given page if that assumption is best discussed in-depth on some other page. However, a brief, unobtrusive pointer or wikilink might be appropriate.
Controversial subjects
Wikipedia deals with numerous areas that are frequently subjects of intense debate both in the real world and among editors of the encyclopedia. A proper understanding and application of NPOV is sought in all areas of Wikipedia, but it is often needed most in these.
Fringe theories and pseudoscience
Pseudoscientific theories are presented by proponents as science but characteristically fail to adhere to scientific standards and methods. Conversely, by its very nature, scientific consensus is the majority viewpoint of scientists towards a topic. Thus, when talking about pseudoscientific topics, we should not describe these two opposing viewpoints as being equal to each other. While pseudoscience may in some cases be significant to an article, it should not obfuscate the description of the mainstream views of the scientific community.
Any inclusion of fringe or pseudoscientific views should not give them undue weight. The fringe or pseudoscientific view should be clearly described as such. An explanation of how experts in the relevant field have reacted to such views should be prominently included. This helps us to describe differing views fairly. This applies to all types of fringe subjects, for instance, forms of historical negationism that are considered by more reliable sources to either lack evidence or actively ignore evidence, such as claims that Pope John Paul I was murdered, or that the Apollo Moon landings were faked.
See Wikipedia's established pseudoscience guidelines to help decide whether a topic is appropriately classified as pseudoscience.
Religion
In the case of beliefs and practices, Wikipedia content should not only encompass what motivates individuals who hold these beliefs and practices but also account for how such beliefs and practices developed. Wikipedia articles on history and religion draw from religion's sacred texts as primary sources and modern archaeological, historical, and scientific works as secondary and tertiary sources.
Some adherents of a religion might object to a critical historical treatment of their own faith because in their view such analysis discriminates against their religious beliefs. Their point of view can be mentioned if it can be documented by relevant, reliable sources, yet note there is no contradiction. NPOV policy means Wikipedia editors ought to try to write sentences like this: "Certain Frisbeetarianists (such as the Rev. Goodcatch) believe This and That and consider those to have been tenets of Frisbeetarianism from its earliest days. Certain sects who call themselves Ultimate Frisbeetarianists—influenced by the findings of modern historians and archaeologists (such as Dr. Investigate's textual analysis and Prof. Iconoclast's carbon-dating work)—still believe This, but no longer believe That, and instead believe Something Else."
Several words that have very specific meanings in studies of religion have different meanings in less formal contexts, e.g., fundamentalism, mythology, and (as in the prior paragraph) critical. Wikipedia articles about religious topics should take care to use these words only in their formal senses to avoid causing unnecessary offence or misleading the reader. Conversely, editors should not avoid using terminology that has been established by the majority of the current reliable and relevant sources on a topic out of sympathy for a particular point of view or concern that readers may confuse the formal and informal meanings. Details about particular terms can be found at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch.
Common objections and clarifications
Common objections or concerns raised to Wikipedia's NPOV policy include the following. Since the NPOV policy is often unfamiliar to newcomers—and is so central to Wikipedia's approach—many issues surrounding it have been covered before very extensively. If you have some new contribution to make to the debate, you could try the policy talk page. Before asking, please review the links below.
Being neutral
- "There's no such thing as objectivity"
- Everybody with any philosophical sophistication knows we all have biases. So, how can we take the NPOV policy seriously?
- Lack of neutrality as an excuse to delete
- The NPOV policy is sometimes used as an excuse to delete texts that are perceived as biased. Isn't this a problem?
- A simple formulation—what does it mean?
- A former section of this policy called "A simple formulation" said, "Assert facts, including facts about opinions—but don't assert opinions themselves." What does this mean?
Balancing different views
- Writing for the opponent
- I'm not convinced by what you say about "writing for the opponent". I don't want to write for the opponents. Most of them rely on stating as fact many demonstrably false statements. Are you saying that to be neutral in writing an article, I must lie to represent the view I disagree with?
- Morally offensive views
- What about views that are morally offensive to most readers, such as Holocaust denial, that some people actually hold? Surely we are not to be neutral about them?
Editor disputes
- Dealing with biased contributors
- I agree with the nonbias policy, but there are some here who seem completely, irremediably biased. I have to go around and clean up after them. What do I do?
- Avoiding constant disputes
- How can we avoid constant and endless warfare over neutrality issues?
Other objections
- Anglo-American focus
- The English Wikipedia seems to have an Anglo-American focus. Is this contrary to NPOV?
- Not answered here
- I have some other objection—where should I complain?
History
"Neutral Point Of View" is one of the oldest governing concepts on Wikipedia. Originally appearing within Nupedia titled "Non-bias policy", it was drafted by Larry Sanger in 2000. Sanger in 2001 suggested that avoiding bias as one of Wikipedia's "rules to consider". This was codified with the objective of the NPOV policy to produce an unbiased encyclopedia. The original NPOV policy statement on Wikipedia was added by Sanger on December 26, 2001. Jimmy Wales has qualified NPOV as "non-negotiable", consistently, throughout various discussions: 2001 statement, November 2003, April 2006, March 2008
No original research (NOR) and verifiability (V) have their origins in the NPOV policy and the problem of dealing with undue weight and fringe theories. The NOR policy was established in 2003 to address problematic uses of sources. The verifiability policy was established in 2003 to ensure the accuracy of articles by encouraging editors to cite sources. Development of the undue-weight section also started in 2003, for which a mailing-list post by Jimmy Wales in September was instrumental.
See also
Policies and guidelines
Noticeboards
Information pages
- Describing points of view
- List of controversial issues
- NPOV dispute
- NPOV FAQ
- NPOV quiz
- Recentism
- Positive tone (historical Meta policy)
- Understand bias (historical Meta policy)
Essays
- Be neutral in form
- Cherrypicking
- Civil POV pushing
- Coatrack articles
- Conflicting sources
- Controversial articles
- Criticism sections
- Describing points of view
- Don't "teach the controversy"
- Let the facts speak for themselves
- Let the reader decide
- NPOV means neutral editing, not neutral content
- NPOV tutorial
- POV and OR from editors, sources, and fields
- Presentism
- Scientific consensus
- Scientific point of view
- Systemic bias
- Why NPOV?
- Wikipedia only reports what the sources say
- Ye shall know them by their sources
Articles
Templates
- General NPOV templates:
- {{POV}}—message used to attract other editors to assess and fix neutrality problems
- {{POV section}}—message that tags only a single section as disputed
- {{POV lead}}—message when the article's introduction is questionable
- {{POV statement}}—message when only one sentence is questionable
- {{NPOV language}}—message used when the neutrality of the style of writing is questioned
- {{Political POV}}—message when the political neutrality of an article is questioned
- {{Fact or opinion}}—message when a sentence may or may not require in-text attribution (e.g., "Jimmy Wales says")
- {{Attribution needed}}—when in-text attribution should be added
- Undue-weight templates:
- {{Undue weight}}—message used to warn that a part of an article lends undue weight to certain ideas relative to the article as a whole
- {{Undue weight section}}—same as above but to tag a section only
- {{Undue weight inline}}—same as above but to tag a sentence or paragraph only
Notes
- ^ Article sections devoted solely to criticism, and pro-and-con sections within articles, are two commonly cited examples. There are varying views on whether and to what extent such structures are appropriate; see guidance on thread mode, criticism, pro-and-con lists, and the criticism template.
- ^ Commonly cited examples include articles that read too much like a debate and content structured like a resume. See also the guide to layout, formatting of criticism, edit warring, cleanup templates, and the unbalanced-opinion template.
- ^ The relative prominence of each viewpoint among Wikipedia editors or the general public is irrelevant and should not be considered.
References
- ^ "BBC Trust—BBC science coverage given "vote of confidence" by independent report. 2011". 20 July 2011. Archived from the original on 21 December 2012. Retrieved 14 August 2011.
- ^ "Trust Conclusions on the Executive Report on Science Impartiality Review Actions. 2014" (PDF). July 2014. Archived (PDF) from the original on 7 July 2014. Retrieved 7 July 2014.
. That a no-no - see WP:ARBAPDS. I suggest that if you feel strongly about Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump you should stay far away from their articles or any associated with them or American politics. Kelly hi! 20:53, 2 August 2016 (UTC)