NikoSilver (talk | contribs) Outlook |
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To diko sou den exei kampanaki mallon e? [[User:N!|<span style="color:#fff;background:#88b">:N<span style="background:#99c">i<span style="background:#aad">k<span style="background:#bbe">o<b><span style="background:#ccf">S</span>il</b></span><b>v</b></span><b>e</b></span><b>r</b>:</span>]] 00:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC) |
To diko sou den exei kampanaki mallon e? [[User:N!|<span style="color:#fff;background:#88b">:N<span style="background:#99c">i<span style="background:#aad">k<span style="background:#bbe">o<b><span style="background:#ccf">S</span>il</b></span><b>v</b></span><b>e</b></span><b>r</b>:</span>]] 00:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC) |
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== POV tag == |
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Please pay attention to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Vandalism#Types_of_vandalism]: |
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::''Dispute tags are an important way for people to show that there are problems with the article. Do not remove them unless you are sure that the dispute is settled. As a general rule, do not remove other people's dispute tags twice during a 24 hour period.'' |
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If ou are in varience with the WP policy, request for arbitration involving you may filled and you may be blocked.--[[User:Mbuk|Mbuk]] 06:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC) |
Revision as of 06:05, 21 June 2006
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Welcome to my talk page
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Καλωσορίσατε στη σελίδα συζητήσεών μου
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Mirësevini në faqen time e diskutimeve
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Macedonism
Well, is the greek understanding of the term the same as the bulgarian one? Which Macedonian culture was taken as the basis for the creation of the macedonian nation. Please can you explain me the term helenism.--Vlatko 21:16, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, Macedonism can still mean Greek culture and influence of.--Vlatko 21:16, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- Does it really? Hellenism is so much more widely used. /FunkyFly.talk_ 19:37, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- We don't talk about the use of its meanings, but of the meanings. If you want make a table wich meaning is more or little used on google.--Vlatko 12:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, as far as I know, Macedonism in Greece (Μακεδονισμός [1]) refers to the qualities that the Macedonian Slavs are trying to adopt to make themselves Macedonians. I'm not really certain if this fits into the article, because the article discusses an ideology, not a set of qualities. Think of the word "Macedonianness" as a synonym. --Telex 22:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- Well, when you are not sure in what the term means, than build an atitude. And what is the term Greece related. Macedonism as an term describes not only a proces of creating macedonian nation, but means entirely influence and existence of Macedonia. And as we know Macedonia is an controversal point. Can mean influence of the (as you believe) Greek Macedonia and culture of, more or a little in use, it means so.--Vlatko 12:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Excuse
I'd like to excuse myself about the personal attack toward you. It was unintentional. Nedkoself bias resist 19:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- OK. --Telex 22:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Macedonian names of towns in south Macedonia (greek part)
OK, I agree that they should be not on the main page, but you should put on the page for the town description its macedonian name.
I think that you know them, so I should not repeat them?
It will be neutral.
Re.
Well, another reason why it should be putted there is that. Bomac 14:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
BTW, Cyril and Methodius are the creators of the Macedonian alphabet as well. Bomac 14:08, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Bomac, please see the existing contents of Category:Macedonian culture. They are exclusively to do with the modern Republic of Macedonia, and Cyril and Methodius are unrelated to the Republic of Macedonia (they were born in Thessaloniki). If your only argument to including that category is that they created the Glagolitic (not Cyrillic) alphabet, then I think you should include categories on Bulgarian, Russian, Serbian, Ukrainian and even Tatar and Mongolian culture as all they use the Cyrillic alphabet. --Telex 14:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't know for the others, but there is a category:Bulgarian culture. Bomac 14:12, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Now, since your pall has reverted this. cat., I think we should add all those cultures in alphabetical order. Nice gesture of yours if you do that... Bomac 14:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Why don't yo add that category? So you you wan't to deny that these people are important for Macedonian culture? Bomac 11:36, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- I don't understand - what do you want? --Telex 11:37, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Sxolia
Mporeis na ton karfwseis epeidi se eipe fasista kai epeidi vandalise ti selida sou. Mporeis episis na ton afiseis na griniazei oso thelei...allwste, gi'afto nomizw oti ta pire kai epitethike sti selida sou...: epeidi den mporei na epitethei se sena stin pragmatikotita (xeroume poios einai aimovoros:p). des to mail sou. --Hectorian 14:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Grafeis kai stin skopianiki wikipedia re thirio? :) O Hectorian exei dikio, mporeis na ton karfoseis kai stin aggliki wikipedia to WP:NPA isxyei pantou. Miskin 15:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Einai xameni istoria i skopianiki wikipedia nomizo. Pos kai milas ti glossa tous? Miskin 15:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Imoun sigouros gi auto. Eides ta edits pou ekana tis proalles sti skopianiki glossa? Kai ta albanika pos kai ta milas? Miskin 16:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Pisteueis oti ta arthra twn Arvanitwn kai twn Arvanitikwn theloun beltiosi? Miskin 13:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Mia hara nomizo oti ine. I mises piyes tis Wikipedia eki ine. Ime veveos oti an ta protiname na yinun featured articles the pernusan. Ides tin allayi pu ekana sto arthro ya tus apostolus ton slavon? Kane epanafora an thelis - des ke ti sizitisi pano ap' afto to section. --Telex 13:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Pisteueis oti ta arthra twn Arvanitwn kai twn Arvanitikwn theloun beltiosi? Miskin 13:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Imoun sigouros gi auto. Eides ta edits pou ekana tis proalles sti skopianiki glossa? Kai ta albanika pos kai ta milas? Miskin 16:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Prosopika den to theoro lathos na yparxoun katigories Slavikon ethnon ekei. H moni antirisi pou exo einai os pros to onoma tis katigorias to opoio theoro pos prepei na allaksei se 'Macedonian culture (Slavic)' gia eunoitous logous. Oso paramenei sketo 'Macedonian culture' eimai kata tou na to blepo opoudipote. Miskin 14:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Aku, den yinete na sizitisis mazi tus - den yinonde etsi rename ta categories. Des to e-mail su. --Telex 14:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Ti les gia metafora tou 'Greek Macedonians' se Macedonians (Greek)? Blepeis ta pleonektimata? Miskin 15:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Kali idea - ti leas ya "Macedonians (Greeks)"? --Telex 15:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Sou apantisa se email. Miskin 16:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Euxaristo gia tin proidopoihsi alla gia pio pragma na me karfosei? Gia 2 rvts? Des ti tou egrapsa sto talk, de sevetai katholou to NPOV. Miskin 23:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Den to skopeuo, alla epimeno pos exo dyo. To proto den einai rv einai edit. Kala einai kai poly blakas. :) Miskin 23:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Re einai dyo pou sou leo, koita kalytera ;). To 2o pou leei gia 'undue weigh' den einai rv, einai edit pou ekana prin prolabo na do to rv tou. S'euxaristo gia tin ypostiriksi, the faei ta moutra tou mou fainetai. Miskin 00:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Nope
It's not Bonny, I know Bonny, and this ain't him. Look here how he reverted to Greier's version. If it was Bonny then he would be attacking his normal pages. —Khoikhoi 18:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ok, I've added him to CheckUser. —Khoikhoi 18:12, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Revert
Do you want to revert all your edits? I don't think you will like that...it's exactly what you're doing with my edits. It's not nice of you, you know?--Vlachul 19:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think you know why you are getting reverted, Bonaparte, see WP:NPOV. This is especially so on Aromanians. --Telex 19:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Let me say something to you Telex, you should not use WP:NPOV as a pretext to cover your edits, with other words why your POV edits are good and my NPOV not? --Vlachul 20:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Actually (on Aromanians at least) both versions are POV, because the opposing POV is being deleted. I think they should be merged - what do you think? --Telex 20:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
What do I think? As if really matter to you...but to be polite I will answer you Telex, I think it's tottaly wrong to erase the word Romanians and replace it with Latin people. Do you agree with me? --Vlachul 20:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- See me on Talk:Aromanians in a few minutes. --Telex 20:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Give me your email Telex. --Vlachul 20:48, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Go to Special:Preferences and enter your e-mail. Click on save, then check your e-mail. --Telex 20:49, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Next time, now a short nap. --Vlachul 21:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Sub-page
I created a new sub-page: User:NikoSilver/List of POV edits by Slavomacedonians. Feel free to post all relative garbage in an organised manner, just for the record. NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 10:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ack! Sorry, sorry, sorry... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 10:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Ohrid
its absolutely insane to add the Albanian name on the header page. albanian is not a official language, it is only in municipalities with more than 80% albanian inhabitants, ohrid does not have such an albanian community, and its already mentioned in the Name History part. so please stop adding nonsense. --Makedonia 11:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Well then why have you (not you person) added the definitely non-official Slavic name to (for example) Serres, Greece? --Telex 11:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Because Seres has a "Slavic" history, as you call it and should be mentioned. on the serres page, the slavic form of the name isnt mentioned in the box right, it is mentioned in the content about serres. as is the albanian and greek form mentioned in the "Name history" content of the ohrid page. --Makedonia 13:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
You in Greece do not learn that Macedonia is Greek?
Whell, I'm realy greatefull to you that in the article about macedonism you support that. I' makeing you a favor, what can be the meaning of the word macedonism, There are also and Greek POV, you have not to read it from somewhere, you can also uderstand it. I see no poinwt why are you reverting the article, but I'm giving up. There is no point whan you are blind.---User:Vlatkoto:Vlatko 15:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi, could you check your mail please? Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Survey on the use of Latinized/Greek names for Byzantine rulers Follow Up
Greetings. As a recent contributor to the survey on the names of Byzantine rulers at Talk:Constantine XI, you may be interested in the following. A mediation sought by Panairjdde resulted in the recommendation that "that proposal two from this page be implemented in the short term, until a consensus can be reached about proposal three". Accordingly, before resuming the editorial process, I am seeking feedback on whether option 2 or 3 of the former survey is more acceptable. Please state (or re-state) your opinion in the follow up survey on Talk:Constantine XI. Thank you for your time, Imladjov 14:50, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Romaioi
Hey Telex, what is the relation between Romaioi and Romanians/Vlachs in Greece? --Preacher, or Princelet 18:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'll tell you in a minute. Do some background reading at Names of the Greeks and know that Romanians in Greek is Roumanoi. Romioi refers to Greeks. --Telex 18:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
BTW can you do something for me? This khoikhoi is adding his shit on my page, after that he said I will be blocked for erasing it. Do something. --Preacher, or Princelet 18:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Why Romioi refers to Greeks? --Preacher, or Princelet 18:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- See Names of the Greeks#Romans (Ρωμαίοι) and Romioi (Ρωμιοί). --Telex 18:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Macedonism
I dont think that the Bulgarian article "Македонистика"/Macedonistics is the same as Macedonism. As far as I am aware, Macedonistics deals primarily with the language, and not so much so with history and ethnogenesis. /FunkyFly.talk_ 19:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- OK - I'll remove the interwikis. --Telex 19:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- It will be a good idea to start Macedonistics over here. /FunkyFly.talk_ 19:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Makedon for the Ancient Greek one and I assume for the region as well (not positive). Makedonia for FYROM.--Eupator 20:56, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- That's correct. --Eupator 22:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Des ligo to terminology. Teleiwsa. Einai ok? (sorry gia to plagiarism apo ton xarth sou sto talk:fyrom... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 21:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ipotheto oti gnorizis oti to idio kimeno hrisimopiite sto United Macedonia. --Telex 21:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Exei kai polla alla ekei. To exw balei footnote to united. To eides? An oute kan esy, na to baloume sto ar8ro mesa. NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 22:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ipotheto oti gnorizis oti to idio kimeno hrisimopiite sto United Macedonia. --Telex 21:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Des ligo to terminology. Teleiwsa. Einai ok? (sorry gia to plagiarism apo ton xarth sou sto talk:fyrom... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 21:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
HRE
Shiko ç po folë për mua User talk:Dijxtra#Hipi Zdhripi përdoruesi User:HolyRomanEmperor. Këto janë akuza dhe atakime personale. Nuk e di nëse ke njohuri për serbokroatishte por me siguri se do ta kuptonë. Une asnjëher nuk ju kamë kërcnuar ati. E ti më thoje të hekë shënimin për të.--Hipi Zhdripi 02:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
RfC
Exeis kanei tipota me to ethnic group rfc? Koita ti lene oi kakes glwsses :-) NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 09:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Noticeboard
Great idea! I think FlavrSavr had a similar idea in the past, but was shouted down. Kudos for taking the initiative. - FrancisTyers 18:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Hi, I've watchlisted both the noticeboard and your new Slavic article. Nice work. Let me know if you need any support. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Mporeis na pros8eseis sth selida mou ayta pou eleges gia ton Asteraki kai ton allo Boulgaro xrhsth (sbhsimo selidas kai mplok)? Mporeis epishs na metafraseis tis le3eis pou den exei metafrasei o funky (meta to "pe8anete oloi oi ellhnes")? An den 8es na bwmoloxhseis dhmosiws steilto mou me mail. NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 20:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ton eixa rwthsei ton funky. Den 3erei leei. Des 3 sections ap'to telos... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 20:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Orea, den ime veveos, alla dite:
- DE THA TO EPITREPSO TELIA KE PAVLA! NA TO EPITREPSUN PROTA I ELLINES
- IPA DE THA TO EPITREPSO, MEHRI NA INE ANANGEO AFISTE ME!!! THA TUS KANI NA THELUN NA TO KANUN!!!
- Afiste me isiho, alla pote den tha simfiliotho, esis na epitrepsete mono! PAROLO PU DE VAZUN I ELLINES TI SIMEA MAS?????
- TO EHETE IPOPSI SAS ANTHROPI???
- --Telex 21:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Orea, den ime veveos, alla dite:
Dhladh gia na katalabw: O typos pisteyei oti prepei na zhthsoume emeis na proste8ei to Ellhnikh dipla sto Makedonia, anti to Aigaiakh dipla sto Makedonia? Kai giati na mas peirazei to ena h to allo? Komple3ikoi eimaste? Kai ta dyo (Ellas-Aigaio) dika mas den einai? 8a ton parakalesoume kiolas? Ama 8eloume na diaxwrisoume th dikia mas apo thn "dikia" tous, mporoume na baloume dipla oti 8eloume. Aytos giati den koitaei na balei tipota dipla sto onoma tou na teleiwnoume? NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 21:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Theli na valume stin Elliniki Wikipedia ti palia simea ton Skopion (afti me to asteri tis verginas) ke to onoma Egeaki Macedonia. --Telex 21:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Esy ti les gi'ayta? NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 22:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- I couldn't give a ****. --Telex 22:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Esy ti les gi'ayta? NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 22:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- OK, I see you have figured out the translations. Good job. /FunkyFly.talk_ 19:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Can we work out something on...
...this and this? How can I help? NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 09:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
well i must, when i got a new source, that source says im right.
--Makedonia 16:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Vlatoko
Feel free to revert if you think it really was a sensible comment to make in light of what you could clearly see I was attempting to do. I fear my work might be in vain though, following, "Aha, so you the choose to be neutral", that comment. - FrancisTyers 16:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Vlachs
The open proxy is banned. - FrancisTyers 18:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I already saw. I've had enough for now. He's being blocked for three hours. - FrancisTyers 18:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Good work, did you see my comments at the noticeboard btw? And did you receive the email I sent? - FrancisTyers 18:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- I was rather referring to the formatting thing :) - FrancisTyers 18:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Hah. - FrancisTyers 20:52, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- I thought that Mr. the Vlach was a sock. - FrancisTyers 21:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- It is - that's been proven in the edition history of User talk:Mikkalai. It was a sock of Bonaparte. Bonaparte generally likes to have nationalistic userpages, e.g. User:Stefan cel Mare, etc. --Telex 21:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Sorry
I used your signature with no intention. Hope you wont mind.--Vlatko 23:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'm glad you do so :-), sorry again.--Vlatko 23:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- So does that mean you did it intentionally? :) /FunkyFly.talk_ 21:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- Had no reason for, and I'm not so stupid to do such obvious things.--Vlatko 23:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- If you say so. /FunkyFly.talk_ 21:43, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Telex, really, did you expect it to remain? First this isn't even a statement of the PM, but of a minister; second, it's months I monitor Macedonia-related articles, and not even a flimsy shadow of proof has as yet been given of a native Greek community; I don't see why we should mix true and real ethnic groups with a non-existant one, and giving highly misleading numbers, given in obvious bad faith (not you, the minister). Independent sources do speak of a Macedonian minority in Greece, but not of a Greek minority in Macedonia. Also, I don't see the claim made by the gov. of Macedonia that 230,000 Macedonian Slavs live in Greek Macedonia in Greece; or the map User:Macedonia maid claiming a million Macedonian Slavs in Greece.--Aldux 21:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- That there were Greeks in 1941 is possible; after all, before 1912 the slavs and greeks were often quite mixed, and Slavs remained south of the border, so some probably remained north; but very few sources have been given up to now. What appears almost certain is that it doesn't exist anymore, at least as a community; no NGO has been able to find them, nor the Greek government (that, I suspect, must have searched damned hard ;-)). Ciao. --Aldux 22:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- You're talking about them being assimilated into Tito's Macedonian national(ist) project. Most likely... --Telex 22:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Ioannina
Γειά σου Telex! Είδα ότι έγραψες στο άρθρο για τα Γιάννινα και τα ονόματα σε άλλες γλώσσες. Είμαι σύμφωνος με αυτό -κατ' αρχάς-, αλλά ίσως χρειάζεται λίγη σκέψη; Πρώτον, με ποιά κριτήρια θα διαλέξουμε τις γλώσσες, ιδίως όταν δεν υπάρχουν επισημα αναγνωρισμένες γλωσσικές μειονότητες; Για τα αλβανικά το καταλαβαίνω το σκεπτικό - στην πόλη ζουν και Αλβανοί. Για τα Aromanian το ίδιο, αλλά είναι κάπως τραβηγμένο, νομίζω. (Εδώ ίσως έχει εφαρμογή και το WP:NPOV#Undue weight). Αλλά τα τούρκικα; Εκτός αν τα κριτήρια είναι ιστορικά, οπότε αλλάζει το πραγμα. Η δεύτερη ένστασή μου είναι πρακτική και αισθητική: αν καθίσουμε να γράψουμε κάθε δυνατό τύπο (3 στα Ελληνικά, 2 στα Αλβανικά -οριστικό και αόριστο- κ.ο.κ.) ίσως γίνει το άρθρο κάπως δυσανάγνωστο. Υπάρχει μήπως τρόπος να μπούν τα ονόματα στο πλάι, όπως στο άρθρο για την Ελλάδα; TheArchon 22:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ναι, ιστορικά. Με αυτή τη βάση υπάρχουν τα ελληνικά και τα αρμένικα ονόματα σε όλες τις Τούρκικες πόλεις (Τραπεζούντα κλπ). --Telex 22:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Slav-Macedonians
just added titles to slav-macedonians article; hope you dont mind--Greece666 22:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
actually your titles were better :). you can also have a look at rainbow.--Greece666 23:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
- Your Rainbow ones are fine (i.e. I can't think of any better ones) :-) --Telex 23:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
map
nice map, good job, but it would be better instead of mentioning "SLAV" to mention "Macedonian" or "Macedonian (Slav)". but well, again good job. --Makedonia 14:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Userpage
Sure, doesn't contravene the guidelines. Personally I think the bit about "Bulgarian dialect" is a bit puerile, but hardly warrants unilateral action. - FrancisTyers 14:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
haha
if you've read carefully you would know what i have said, i said: we will simply expell the greek majority, just like the greeks did to us:) but i think if it will happen the most of the greeks will move out of macedonia by themselves anyway, and if none of these above, then let them stay, its important macedonia is united, so long those greeks dont make any serious problems, they could stay, we can live together in harmony, the most important thing is that Macedonia is once again a united country.
are you worrying so much about a possible united macedonia, that you repeat your questions and statements so many timeS??;) you even want a federation with albania with macedonia in it :P , thats probably the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard of hahah but well you should give the fed. a try of course ;).
oh yeah, and your statements and mentioning about Greeks living in Rep. of Macedonia, first of all there aren't any official independent sources on any greeks living in RoM, second, and if there is a greek minority in RoM, so what? do you think we, macedonians have a problem with that? no we don't, we accept it and don't see it as a problem, let them live here, let them be greeks, we are not as you greeks are, who are denying any ethnic minorities.
it is not an insult to us macedonians or a problem, so please mention the greek minority on RoM pages that there is a greek minority, however unfortunately there are no independent sources on them, at least i've never seen such, thats the diffirence between Greeks and Macedonians, we Macedonians dont hate Greeks or have any problems with greeks, but we are just defending our nation and our history from being falsified and claimed by surrounding countries, we dont deny any minorities forbid people to be what they want to be and what they are. but not all greeks are like that, i know many greeks who dont even have a problem with macedonia and the macedonians, who also recognize macedonia by her real name and who accept Alexander and ancient macedonians being macedonian rather than greeks. --Makedonia 15:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
well, then probably there are some, i dont know and almost nobody knows, i dont have any problem if there is a greek minority in rep. of macedonia. i do know that in the city of Ohrid wich im from, there were some Greeks in the past, but i have no actual information on them today.--Makedonia 16:08, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
The map is OK, to be honest, I don't know much about that issue, but the idea is great.But, accidentaly I made a revert there!:( (I forgot what rev link means) Please correct it if the revert was bad.MatriX 19:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
re
we dont have anything to do with slavs, except for the language, and a part of our population in the northern rep of macedonia wich is mixed and probably almost 90% of serbian origin. Slavs are more an Linguistic group rather than a Ethnical group, we have macedonian cultures, only our language is slav, but i mean in peru spanish is spoken, does that make peruans spanish? No!
the research you call Discredited, was done by Arnaiz Villena, a well known professor and regarded as the best in this subject. the Pakistanis/indian Greeks you are telling about, are actually macedonians, descendants of alexander and his macedonian soldiers.
there was a research on them and many documentaries, those people are claiming themselves to be Macedonians, instead of Greeks, at least thats what they say.!:)
read this letter:
Dear Hardevji,
Kindly accept my best wishes. I have come to know of you through a website that you are descendent of Alexander the Great or his army. Incidentally, Porus the Great and I have common ancestry. I am a professing Sikh, Khukhrain Khatri by lineage. I got your mail ID through your genealogical cousin Risto Stefov.
You may be knowing Mohayals are Brahmins, Coorgs of Karnataka are Kshatriyas, all of them and few tribes in north-east India are believed to be descendents of Macedonians. Some Jatts and Jats also believe they are Macedonian blood.
Dear Hardev, as you are descendent of Macedonia and Singh you are probably a Sikh or Hindu from Punjab or Kashmir. In Punjab Macedonians may have preserved independent racial identity, but not separate language, rituals or culture. I would like to know more about you and credence of your believe. It will be source of enlightenment to me. Few Ladhakis and Gujjars North of Baramulla are maintaining old Macedonian resembling rituals. To the best of my knowledge the pockets where the distinct Macedonian culture, language and racial integrity is continuing is Hunza, Chitral, and Nathiagali but they are all muslims, infact the few non-muslims, mostly Sikhs, in that area were migrants during Mharaja Ranjit Singh period. In1947, most of them left for India, though some of them moved westward and Gilgit. In this period, migrants and Macedonians were peaceful but apathetic neighbors. Even during the Chitral fort besieging in 1894-95 in which British and Sikh solders were trapped and latter rescued by 14 Ferozepore Sikh Infantry, there was no tension amongst civilians.
In India, your distinct culture, linguist, and religious groups are, not even remotely connected with each other or with Macedonia.
You split descendant of Macedonians in India should organize yourself, the heirs of the great-lost race should rediscover themselves. Even if, for any practical reason, integration is impossible & irrelevant, but emotions and nostalgia makes us human and off course better humans. Nevertheless, reemergence of Macedonia as sovereign nation state after long, it must cheer you all. This will be a good academic kit.
This is all out of my quest to discover the past and present of great lost or extinct races and civilizations. I am sorry, if anything offending in this letter, it is not intentional, so, kindly overlook.
Please be in touch.
Yours
Ravi Ranjan Singh Chairman Centre for Legislative Research and Cause India
--Makedonia 00:00, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Just a minor comment concerning those who claim descend from Alexander the Great and his soldiers in India and Pakistan. by picking up one of the regional-ethnic names mentioned above, i made a quike google search (through Google UK, for i do not wanna hear that 'google greece is biased' again:p):so, 'chitral greek' gives 17,500 results [2] and 'chitral macedonian' gives 888 results [3]. Do u know why? simply cause the ancient Macedonians were a greek tribe... btw, the ancient customs and rituals that those populations have preserved, are mentioned in ancient texts as greek:) --Hectorian 00:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Wait a minute, I did a search on the author of that letter, Ravi Ranjan Singh, and this is what I got[4]; then I did a search on Centre for Legislative Research and Cause India and here are the results[5].Then I corrected the spelling for Centre and this is what I got[6].I'm calling BS until that letter is authenticated. Even if this Singh character's name is not found in google searches at least the public research institution he supposedly represends and is a "Chairman" of would have more then likely appeared. As far as Antonio Arnaiz-Villena is concerned, the reason he calls it Discredited is because Arnaiz-Villena work IS discredited. Lets not forget he not only did his work with FRYOMian researchers but he was paid by your own goverment to do it. I'm very familiar with his theories, what he claims in his research work and the fact that his theories on the HLA-DRB1 genetic marker have been disproven by numerious unbiased world-leading geneticists world wide such as: Neil Risch from Stanford University and Alberto Piazza from the University of Torino and L. L. Cavalli-Sforza also from Stanford Unviersity had to say this on the interpretations of Arnaiz-VillenaHow Not to Compare Populations; Mark Jobling author Human Evolutionary GeneticsJobling uses Arnaiz-Villena's work to point the lacked scientific merit Oh, and by the way, Villena's "research" work is not even new...from (Mourant et al., 1976) "HLA genes are not used as a valid measure to determine ancestry since HLA genes, which control immune responses and are subject to environmental selection. This means they're not reliable in determining ancestral affinity, as using them thus can find bonds of kinship between Greeks and Japanese, as well as between Nordics in Iceland and Negroids in the Congo." BINGO!! ~Mallaccaos, 8 June 2006
Gnwmh se ayto? NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 13:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Niko, ego de ksero dopia. Ego ksero liges lexis bulgarikis, ke akoma ligoteri grammatiki. --Telex 13:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Favourite quote
Is that really your favourite quote? Or are you just being reactionary? :P - FrancisTyers 16:05, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- You know, Kiro Gligorov was under a lot of pressure back then, newly independent republic and all, so he did not really know what he was talking. But he is excused for his words. What he really meant was to say "Macedonia for the Macedonians". /FunkyFly.talk_ 17:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- So was Demosthenes when he said what is written at User:Makedonia ;-) --Telex 17:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hm, I dont quite see what you mean, but I'll look into it more. /FunkyFly.talk_ 17:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
According to some Republicans
Congratulations, you are now officially a Bulgarian Nationalist! /FunkyFly.talk_ 19:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Is that so - well, if the only people on earth who cite sources and require sources for questionable claims are Bulgarian nationalists, then there's only one thing I can say: съединението прави силата --Telex 19:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Wow, we might have included this edit in that list. According to FlavrSavr, the cause you fight for better expresses your nationality than self-identification. /FunkyFly.talk_ 20:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- At least he has softened his positions since then, no reasonable editors try to replace Bulgarians with Macedonians (ethnic group), rather append it. The last step of the way is admitting Macedonians, which should be worked out soon. /FunkyFly.talk_ 20:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- "Bulgarian or Macedonian" is silly. If there are no sources calling him Macedonian, then it's final, there's nothing to discuss (has Zdravko mk been blocked yet?). --Telex 20:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- No he has not been. I guess it's possible for yet another year of reverts until things settle. /FunkyFly.talk_ 20:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Dude, do you consider Google to be the ultimate history telling machine, eh? For now, I will leave this horror and I will leave Goce's page as it is. Just wanted to say, will it be relevant if I publish a page where Goce says "Macedonians are completely different from Bulgarians, Macedonians are Slavs and Bulgarians are Turks (TATARI) and their work is based on destroying Macedonian national sense, so that they can annex Macedonia", will you take this in consideration. I mean, according to your criteria, if Google turns results then it's HISTORICAL FACT, and if not, it's not. By the way, everything that Bulgarians were doing during the ages was forging, hiding truth and propaganda against every single Macedonian movement. After all, there are many web-sites where you can find information, letters and other authentical facts that prove Goce to be a Macedonian fighting for Macedonian freedom. And why the hell do you care, aren't you just an Albanian who lives in Aegian Maceodnian (so called Greek Macedonia) and who is assimilated by the Greek nationalistic politics? Ok, never mind, you don't understand either.. Love you :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.162.235.22 (talk • contribs)
Wisely spoken, like a true Republican. /FunkyFly.talk_ 20:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Dear anon, Google is not the ultimate telling machine. I need a telling machine. That addition of yours was totally unsupported and it solely depended on whether everyone else believed your word. For some reason, however, I don't feel comfortable doing that, sorry :-) --Telex 20:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Please take this into consideration
I think you have once spoken to a user Macedonian or Makedonec or something.. I relly don't see what your point is. Destroying everything that is Macedonian, just like everyone else in the past did to the Macedonians (I'm talking about the Serbs, Albanians, Greeks and Bulgarians the most). No-one ever said that we are the true decendants of the Ancient Macedonia, who were a Hellenic nation. Macedonian Slavs took pretty much of the left culture and symbols of the Ancient Macedonians, such as the Vergina Star (the Sun with 16 rays) and they might have mixed with the left Ancient Macedonians (the Slavs with the Ancient Macedonians), but no-one has ever said that we are Ancient Macedonians lol. There are some doubts about king Samoil or Petar Deljan or sth.. but, there is no doubt and I'm more that sure that Goce Delchev was a Macedonian revolutionary, who fought for Macedonians, and had nothing to do with the Bulgarians. In many occasions he said that Bulgarians try to make a different flow of the Macedonian movement (in their greatbulgarian fictions) and he once said: "all until my arm can hold a rifle, NO Bulgarian officer will command Macedonians!" I really haven't got time now, and I think that the whole time in the world will not be enough to reveal some truths, which are based on facts, science and documents (and logic!), but that's it, that's our (MACEDONIAN) fate, that's our destiny, a great sadness and tragedy for us there is. Wish you well..
And by the way, I'm not anon, I just didn't feel like logging in.. 2lazy, what can u do.. that's why I didn't provide any sources or anything else that could satisfy you (hmm.. WHAT could satisfy you? Maybe just the plain lies, everything contrary to the truth about Macedonians). Never mind, see ya.
comment
First of all, history is for historians, not for politicians, and especially not the politicians from the (Political Banana)Republic of Macedonia, give them a full wallet and they will even sell their mothers. second, In that time Macedonia was in the process of independency and looking to create foreign relations, he said that to not make any tenions on that matter, in that important time for the republic of Macedonia. Mr gligorov can speak for himself, but not for his fellow-Macedonians. --Makedonia 21:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
those were diffirent times, you cant compare demosthenes with someone like mr Gligorov. --Makedonia 22:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
maybe demosthenes was lying, we dont know--Makedonia 22:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Click the link. ;) - FrancisTyers 12:37, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Dear Telex, this is not your fight. Please don't edit there any more. If you support a stalinist, old communist view that moldovans=russians so be it. But you'll have only Node as your friend and you'll be reverted on site. Moldovans=romanians and you or others cannot change this. Judge better and choose your friends. --193.109.91.134 12:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Map
Why should I make another map, so you could abuse it with your claims like the other one?
"The region of Macedonia as perceived by Macedonian irredentists"
-So I guess I am this Macedonian "irredentist" since I was the one who made the map
"Ethnic Macedonian nationalists have expressed irredentist claims"
"The roots of the concept can be traced back to 1946"
Macedonia 14:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi! I do see, now, that I wasn't supposed to do the move by copy-pasting (WP:MOVE#Page histories), but I would be grateful if you would explain to me how exactly my move is a violation of the GFDL. Perhaps I'm missing something, I'm not that experienced here? --85.187.44.131 17:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! --85.187.44.131 17:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Glorious Stalin
Heh, I was going to have "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic", but that would be too sick, don't you think? ;) —Khoikhoi 19:38, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- Seek is all the facts related to Stalin, including deportation of millions of romanians from Bessarabia. Not to mention moldovan paradigm. Too many confusion for ignorant or bad faith people. Yes, you don't have to agree with me but it's the truth. --141.14.139.166 20:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- Certainly. --Telex 19:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Ckemi
Mbase duhet ta raportosh ate qe po nderron artikujt gjithandej, per 3RR? Si duket po te lodh, e ska zgjidhje tjeter pervec raportimit. Mos humb kohe me ta. Shihet qellimi i tyre ketu. Gjith te mirat, ilir_pz 22:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- Funny Ilir, why tell him in Albanian? Are you hiding something?:)))) C-c-c-c 00:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Just like you talk in Serbian all the time. Nothing bad with me using my mother-tongue, is there? Besides there is some English, too, so that you understand. :)ilir_pz 00:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Actually I don't speak it all the time, rarely if ever. Only to practice my writing skills here at times...which are horrendous at best. But since everyone else can understand Serbian (Albanians, Croatians, Bosnians) and no one else can presumably understand Albanian then we can assume you're collaborating, or no? Anyways, have you seen that physics problem..it's pretty tricky.:)) C-c-c-c 00:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Not all Albanians understand Serbian. Actually none from the new generations. I do not solve physics problems for people that annoy me. Guess who does?! Yeah, it's pretty tricky, but simple as well. Take care,ilir_pz 00:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh well, If I can live with KLA still being around and killing innocent people, I guess can live without getting that physics problem solved:P. P.S. 4.9m/s, not so tough now is it?:) Have a nice one, C-c-c-c 00:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- whatever..ilir_pz 01:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Nikola Karev
Can you be more constructive here? Have you seen the discussion? Why do you think that my edit is unsupported. Please be more constructive. You are erasing even the POV template. Do you need to be so nationalistic? Why? (Zdravko mk 12:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC))
- Did Karev ever declare himself a Macedonian? Did a Macedonian ethnicity exist then? The answer to both questions is no, so until you cite a source proving otherwise, there's nothing to discuss, including your personal attacks on the article's talk page. --Telex 12:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Did Karev ever declare himself a Bulgarian? Do you have an evidence about that? Karev wasn't fucked nationalist like you and he wasn't interest in the ethic side of the problem. And have you even seen my edit, before reverting it? I have written there that Karev "was a socialist and revolutionary, which both the Macedonians and Bulgarians consider that belongs to their own ethnic group." Is that not true? I am trying to find compromis here so be at least a little bit cooperative! (Zdravko mk 12:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC))
- He was a member of the extremely selective of its membership organization BMARC. --Telex 12:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Have you even read the discussion page before reverting?! How can you revert without looking at discussion page?! Are you so irresponsible? (Zdravko mk 12:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC))
Stan Lazaridis
How do you in the name of god, know wether he feels greek or not?:P before i started contributing to that article, you didnt even know who stan lazaridis was:)
1- He played at a Macedonian Club (wich widely uses macedonian symbols), do you think a real greek would ever play for such a club??? NO he would not, thats logical.
2- His family comes from Voden, a Macedonian city wich untill today is a significant macedonian community city.
3- As you can see in the E-mail the President of Stirling Lions FC sent to me, you will know that he Speaks Macedonian, that he played for macedonian clubs, and that he is called "a true Macedonian Trait".
4- About his Greek Surname, after 1913 all Macedonians and other peoples who were annexed into Greece, were forced to change their surnames into Greek sounding ones, Lazar became Lazaridis, Spiro or Spirov became Spiros etc etc. However many of those Macedonians whom their surname had been changed have kept their new forced name even when they emigrated outside of Agean Macedonia. For example, Steve Staios the famous hockey player, George Servinis, Another hockey player, Petros Dimtsis a leader of the Rainbow (political party) in Florina and many many others.
Please im asking you and your fellow friends to drop your actions against Stan Lazaridis he is Macedonian and will be Macedonian. It's clear enough, if you have something against Macedonians or me, than show it in another way, but do not keep editing the stan lazaridis page over and over again while you know im right. If it wasnt for GR MANOS i would not even mention Greek Australian on the Stan lazaridis page, but we made an agreement, to mention him as Greek Australian with Macedonian(ethnic group) heritage, to calm both sides down. So please give me a break here and stop with the nonsense. Greetings. --Makedonia 17:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Makedonia. Lazaridis is originally from Edessa (the original of the city used in ancient Macedonian times - the 1991 census recorded Turkish, Pomak, Roma, even Armenian minorities in Greece, there is no "Macedonian" minority), and the fact that he has a Greek name is proof that he is Greek. Contrary to the claims in your schoolbooks, the people with Slavic names in Greece were not forced to change them and declare themselves Greeks - they voluntarily chose to do you, so as to be exempt from the population exchanges, or because they really felt Greek. See also [7]. --Telex 17:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
From Voden yes, you greeks call it Edessa. its the same city. and of course the australian media is mentioning him as a Greek, they think Aegean Macedonia has Always been Greek, and second they are mentioning a Surinam football player from Holland a Dutchman too, but he isnt, he is from suriname.--Makedonia 17:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, the ancient Macedonians also called in Edessa - it's you Slavs who have this urge of renaming placenames. Tut... tut... --Telex 17:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Some administrators
Some administrators seem to have the FYROM issue high on their agenda, high enough that they are ready to use admin powers on articles they edit, if necessary. Evidence is mounting... /FunkyFly.talk_ 21:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Malheureusement, cela semble être vrai :-( --Telex 21:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- And in English this would mean...? /FunkyFly.talk_ 21:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Sadly, that seems to be true :-( --Telex 21:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Now this is what I call conspiration theory....--Aldux 21:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Non sono d'accordo, the evidence is compelling. --Telex 21:14, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone ever tried learning Turkish? It's a really hard language! --Telex 21:15, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Are you guys talking about User:Bogdangiusca? - FrancisTyers 21:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- No, as far as I know, Bogdan would never abuse admin buttons. --Telex 21:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- He used rollback a couple of times on articles involving Macedonia. - FrancisTyers 21:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- To revert what? If it's an edit I'd agree with, then I'll not view it as an abuse ;-) --Telex 21:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- I think they mean User:Jonathunder; unless I've grossly misunderstood, relations between him and Greek editors are a bit.... tense.--Aldux 21:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Not just with them. The whole story is here. /FunkyFly.talk_ 21:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Come on guys, it could be worse... User:Bitola, got blocked twice in abuse of admin buttons, by a user he was revert warring with (of course, FFF got desysopped in the end - Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Freestylefrappe). --Telex 21:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Gee whiz Telex, are you conspiring something? :) /FunkyFly.talk_ 21:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Hear_speak_see_no_evil_Toshogu.jpg/300px-Hear_speak_see_no_evil_Toshogu.jpg)
- FF, you should know me better! --Telex 21:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- As long as it is informal, what can you do... Still better than referring to Blagoevgrad as a city in Pirin Macedonia. /FunkyFly.talk_ 22:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- I have long been of the opinion, that the naming is of little significance. The fact that 1.5 million people from the poorer end of Europe, without an army, and 45% worth of ethnic minorities, decided to use strictly geographical names for propagandistic purposes should not get people annoyed. There are other reasons to get riled up: I can understand the fury of the Bulgarians when the „Macedonian” Folk Songs, written by the ethnically „Macedonian” Brakya Miladonovci are discussed - it would be like saying that Shakespeare was American! United Macedonia is not an option, I'm afraid, and it seems these guys (Makedonia, Macedonia, Vlatkoto etc) seem to be the only ones who have failed to comprehend that. There are more chances of Greece annexing Northern Epirus, than FYROM annexing Aegean Macedonia or Pirin Macedonia. The people in these regions have stated their ethnic identity clearly enough. The only case Greece has for annexing Northern Epirus, is not the dwindling Greek minority (which makes it a Megali idea target), but the fact that if they were annexed, they would automatically become EU citizens (like when East and West Germany united). If FYROM was an EU member, and Greece and Bulgaria weren't, then they would have a stronger case of annexing our beloved predominantly inhabited by Greeks/Bulgarians provinces. --Telex 22:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- You almost make it sound like some historical justice is being served. :) Annexation is very bad, as is anything against the will of the people. If this region wants to secede and that's OK with the rest of the country, and Greece accepts it - so be it. /FunkyFly.talk_ 22:15, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- The question is, why do they want Aegean Macedonia, if it would make the ethnic Macedonians an ethnic minority in their own country? Makedonia's pious hopes of annexing Aegean Macedonia and then deporting the Greeks (like he claims "we did to them") have no basis in fact. If mother Greece wanted to help the Greek majority in United Macedonia, they'd probably expel the Macedonian minority, and then the Macedonians would be like the Jews - a people without a homeland (until 1948 at least). --Telex 22:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Heh, what Greeks? It's Aegean Macedonia, there are no Greeks to deport. Only Macedonians live there, they are oppressed and want to be liberated. Just like the Pirin Macedonians :) To think some people believe this... /FunkyFly.talk_ 22:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Speaking of minorities/majorities, have you seen mk:Македонци во Бугарија#Пописи во Пиринска Македонија? I wonder what the motives were behind that section ;-) Of course, it takes a lot of courage to challenge the validity of censi in an open democratic country, and imply that censi taken during the years of a communist dictatorship are more credible. I guess it's due to the fact that Albania, Greece and Bulgaria have oppresive regimes, which invent all evidence against the existence of these Macedonian „majorities”. This sounds too familiar for my liking - it's circular logic and a loaded question. If you take a critical point of view, you'll see that there is no way the figures they claim are accurate. You only arrive at their conclusions, if you assume they are correct before embarking on the Journey of Discovery. --Telex 22:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Remember Realek's words - "A nation cannot be invented overnight." Well that's exactly what happened in 1946 and seem to have been undone after 1956. Governments can be very powerful sometimes. /FunkyFly.talk_ 22:42, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Nations are never invented overnight. - FrancisTyers · 22:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- I feel sorry for the Bulgarians, you know. They were the most oppressed people in the European part of the Ottoman Empire. Due to Benjamin Disraeli's chauvinist outlook, San Stefano Bulgaria lost a lot of exclusively Bulgarian inhabited territory. The Bulgarians of Vardar Macedonia underwent a transformation to ethnic Macedonians with Croatian aid. It is said that time heals all wounds, and presumably, this also applies to washed brains. Tito's invention is disintegrating as we speak, so I'm assuming that in a few decades, the Republic of Macedonia will have tree primary nationalities: Albanians, Bulgarians and Turks. I'm saying all this on the understanding that I will not be visiting Skopje in the near future - I would prefer to maintain my bodily integrity ;-) --Telex 22:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- It's nice to see I am starting to inspire people (with my ignorance) [8] [9]... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 22:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
See Montenegro (?)... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 23:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Perast.jpg/300px-Perast.jpg)
- Different case - despite the fact that the Montenegrins are the closest thing you can get to a pure blooded Serb, they don't seem to have gone to the lengths our Republican friends have to rewrite history. --Telex 23:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Point taken (by me at least). Now you have to convince them... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 23:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Damn and I was trying to point out that "nations" are myths. Albeit convienient myths for some. Regard to "Macedonian defectors", might have something to do with the incipient ascension of Bulgaria to the mother ship. - FrancisTyers · 12:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- As the Minister of Justice points out the whole system is "... in need of a thorough review because it was now obvious that people were mostly applying for a Bulgarian passport so as to travel abroad" [11] :) Of course I know you're trolling ;) But its an interesting enough article anyway. - FrancisTyers · 12:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- It's arguable if that is the case, considering restrictions of labor movement to be imposed when Bulgaria joins. Most likely it is because that one is most likely to find a job in a 9% unemployment economy speaking a local dialect, rather than find a job in his domestic 40% unemployment economy or other linguistically challenging environments (Serbia excluded). /FunkyFly.talk_ 15:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Guys, you know what's funny about this citizenship thing, the motives might not be national feelings at all, rather purely practical motives, such as finding work and search for better life. However, the process an applicant has to go through requires that they dig out Bulgarian documents of parents or grandparents - mostly birth certificates issued during the "Bulgarian occupation" of 1941-1944, which surprisingly many people have kept under their rugs for such a long time, like they meant something for them. Those documents are now dusted out, and law and behold - our applicant sees a Bulgarian birth certificate of his grandfather. That must be a pretty disturbing thought, considering the years of badly sourced history taught in the Republic, and given the public attitude. /FunkyFly.talk_ 15:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Very true FF :) — although from the stuff I've read, the Bulgarians don't even require a birth certificate or any "real" supporting documentation at all ;) btw. I removed the nonsense from that guys page. You should have pointed him out sooner. Its like whack-a-mole :) - FrancisTyers · 16:00, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- True, not a requirement, but still is the easiest way to get a citizenship. Otherwise you have to go through a much longer and painful process, so you are strongly encouraged to get it if possible. About that guy, I forgot about him, he doesnt seem to be active anymore. And one more thing, you can still be drafted in the army! The same army that "occupied" your homeland once. Must be pretty tough to side with the enemy... /FunkyFly.talk_ 16:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Even the girls? - FrancisTyers · 16:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- What about User:Macedonian and User:I sterbinski? Too long to read, but seems quite inflamatory.--Aldux 16:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Don't seem to be too bad. I will take action if there are complaints.
- Fran, no not the girls, emigration is approximately half and half, I think even males have slight prevalence /FunkyFly.talk_ 16:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- I sterbinski was an amazing character, before he got banned for spamming approximately 103 times with one of his famous Neutral wikipedia monologues. Interestingly in those monologs he claims that his grandfather born in 1911 has known Goce Delchev in person /FunkyFly.talk_ 16:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Moldova
Answer on Talk:Moldova132.70.50.117 06:50, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Renaming
For some reason s'po ma var, kohet e fundit :). Bej shaka! Check here and let me know what you think. Your opinion is appreciated. ilir_pz 00:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Revert
Hah! I reverted you! Shameless Greek hyper-nationalist that you are. Let's have a real big edit war now, shall we? I'm going to out myself as the crypto-Albanian I've always been. ;-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:06, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Kiro Gligorov
Yes, He said so. And what was he learned to believe throught the life, his opinion, pragmatism, if you want you can let the phrase on your page, but it shows only how much unserious you are. There are more greeks convinced that Macedonia is Macedonian than Macedonians thinking that they are slavs. In order to use someones authority to point something that is unproven is silly, he even was no historician. And I do make mestakes whan I write in english, At least I do not use google or some translators like you and Funky.--Vlatko 15:08, 06 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hahaha, that certainly explains my English skills. :) /FunkyFly.talk_ 15:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hi guys, I'm (pretending to be) new here. Please guide me around...
₪Hellenic Republic₪ (T) 13:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, I'm responding late... Yes it is his sentence, but I want to point that he is not competent in that field, he just expresed what he was tought all of his life. Tell me, how can he say "we are slavs that camed in the VI centry", was he alived then to prove that.--Vlatko 23:52, 06 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, the question is actually reverse my dear friend, because it is you that is trying to prove the irrational: Were you alive then to know otherwise? It is common knowledge that Slavs came in the 5th and 6th century. As an ethnic group, you have many slavic features, including language and physical characteristics. Maybe you had the chance to mix with a few Macedonian Greeks back then, maybe not. In any case you cannot claim being a closer descendant to the ancients than the Greek Macedonians. It's just paranoid. We are honoured by your wish, though, so thank you... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 00:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Ssshhhh
They'll find out about my SECRET ANTI-SERB AGENDA! - FrancisTyers · 18:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
If theres one thing that I'm always doing, its "rejecting historical facts in favour of what is written at www.maknews.com". I'm almost never accepting historical facts, instead relying on a partisan "news" organisation! Nexm0d is not right, if anything it should be Serbo-Croatian or Central South Slavic. But to be honest, whats the point, each of them has a standard, who am I to judge. Hell, I have Esperanto on there, why not Bulgarian and Slovenian? :) - FrancisTyers ·
Why people hate me
Yeah, based on this, I believe it's my best friend Lutherian. :D Always nice to know how popular I am! —Khoikhoi 00:44, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
CG Wikipedia
Hey Telex, there is currently a vote for a version of Wikipedia in Montenegrin. If you want to vote, go to meta:Requests for new languages. There you can vote. Ask your friends on Wikipedia (if you have any) who haven't voted to vote. Thanks.
Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 06:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
New Arvanites confusion
Your thoughts? Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Question
I want to ask you: do you like that your work to be reverted? You come and revert a lot of other people's work from different countries, even if you don't have a clue about that subject. How do you feel when your work is reverted? --201.11.44.5 19:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- It all depends on what is being reverted? You are vandalising that history of the language article. --Telex 19:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- No. This is not true. We're making more NPOV. Now is very POV against Romanians. --201.11.44.5 19:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- "So called" is POV. Can't you use a footnote, saying something like 'the usage of the term "Moldovan language" is not meant to imply an endorsement of the Moldovenst perspective'? --Telex 19:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- If you don't agree just edit, but stop with reverts. Do you want a war? Do you want to be hounted for every edit you make? The soviets are doing this with Romanians, so we're used to. Tell us! --201.11.44.5 19:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- I suggest you everytime you want to make a revert just edit and make it less POV as you think. But stop with reverts. --201.11.44.5 19:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Bonaparte, bite me. You cannot influence anything, you are banned. Anyone can revert any edit you make without regard to the 3RR, so don't think you can bargain. NPOV does not mean Romanian POV - adding "so called" is POV and you know it. --Telex 19:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
If you want war you'll have it. 201.11.44.5 19:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
stan lazaridis
ok telex ill accept your last version, now please let it stay this way.Greetings!--Makedonia 19:20, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- That was a request for source, not a proposal. As you failed you source the claim, it has been removed. --Telex 21:38, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanx
Thank you very much, Telex, for helping out with the reverts. I need all the help I can get and I appreciate your being there. ImpuMozhi 19:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thanx very muh again. This troll is tireless and, OMG, he defines ppersistance. ImpuMozhi 13:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you!
...for protecting my user page from obvious vandalism. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
POLL
No, no, no, not what you think! This time is for something that all of us need:
Improvement of the <ref> function.
Please weigh in at Wikipedia talk:Footnotes#Poll! NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 21:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
ερώτηση
Πώς σου φαίνεται (ή αν το έχεις διαβάσει ήδη πώς σου φάνηκε) το βιβλίο του Μπίρη; talk to +MATIA 12:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Καλό ήταν. Νομίζω ότι γεγονός ότι έγινε μπεστσέλλερ και χρειάστηκε να εκδοθεί τέσσερις φορές σημαίνει ότι δεν έγραψε ανοησίες και ότι ο κόσμος δέχεται αυτά που έγραψε. --Telex 12:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Για τους Αρβανίτες μου έκανε και εντύπωση αυτό το γράμμα (το προτελευταίο). Συνήθως ακούς μόνο τις οργανώσεις ανθρωπίνων δικαιωμάτων να παραπονιούνται ότι στην Ελλάδα δίνεται υπερβολική έμφαση στην αρχαία Ελλάδα και ότι οι άνθρωποι με διαφορετικές καταβολές δε χωρούν σε αυτή την "ιδεολογία". --Telex 12:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Image
Telex, I have created the image and uploaded it, so and specified all. what are you playing? What has man to do for you make some rational thing. Pathetic from yopur side. Please explain me where is the problem with the image, or you are the problem.--Vlatko 15:27, 08 June 2006 (UTC)
- Are you saying you created Image:Skopje Real1.png? Even so, information is needed on the copyright status of the images you used to make it. --Telex 13:34, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, seriosly you have problems. I'll discuss for the image with Francis, not with you. Stay away please.--Vlatko 15:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Telex: WP:AN/I. - FrancisTyers · 13:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Sher Khan
whast your problem with inclusion of Sher Shah Suri in the Indian monarchs Category ?--Irishpunktom\talk 13:50, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Because he's already in Category:Sur Dynasty, a subcategory of Category:Indian monarchs. Not to mention Tatra's edit summary. --Telex 13:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi
Telex, that what you and the Tatar do is ultranationalistic, nationaly conformistic and antimacedonistic, you've started deleting all the images that represent macedonia. Why don't you see it and do it this way, "To make better articles about Greece and Bulgaria", start cleaning up there by removing the images that violate the copyright policy and info without sources, I'm sure you'll find a mess of a "good job" about "you", and probably , maybe, after long long time of sceptic (please be sceptic) research you will realise the Fable.---Vlatko 23:59, 08 June 2006 (UTC)
- Poor Vlatko, he does not realize that he is just as tatar as the Bulgarians and all his fellow Republicans. Anti-macedonistic, how true. /FunkyFly.talk_ 23:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, poor me, "poor you".---Vlatko 01:17, 09 June 2006 (UTC)
Stan Lazaridis
Hi Telex, I just posted some interesting info regarding Stan Lazaridis here. [12] Regards. ;) ~Mallaccaos, 8 June 2006
Goce Delchev quotes
[13] Fictional quotes seem very instrumental when a point needs to be proved. /FunkyFly.talk_ 15:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Quotes by Goce Delechev: Macedonia has its interests...... From Dimitar Talev's novel Ilinden
- Do you think that this document is copyrighted? [14]. It has pictures on pages 16 and 66 of Gligorov and Koneski. /FunkyFly.talk_ 23:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yes - publications by the Macedonian government usually are copyrighted. If we could find one in an American government publication (USA government publications are always public domain), we could use that. --Telex 23:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Darn! Will keep looking. /FunkyFly.talk_ 23:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- We only need one more. We have two existing ones, we have Simon Trpceski (with a PD image) to replace Parlichev, all we need is someone to replace Miladonov. --Telex 23:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- How about Marek Jankulovski? --Telex 23:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Might be temporary, until a picture of Koneski or Gligorov is found, he's hardly of their stature. /FunkyFly.talk_ 23:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- OK, I'll see to it tomorrow --logged out --Telex 23:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Azeri's name in Arabic script
Where did you get that from? :) P.S., I like the quote. —Khoikhoi 22:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- No, I was just saying what it was. —Khoikhoi 23:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm, hopefully I'll be able to visit that region some day. BTW, what do you think about the placement of the images I added to the history section? —Khoikhoi 23:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Sure, but it's Tombseye who writes the articles, you might want to ask him, although I think he might want to work on History of Armenia next. —Khoikhoi 23:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Arvanitic and "minority status"
Hi Telex, that statement over at Arvanites about Rainbow and protected-language status seems still to be contentious, between Albanau and Politis at least. In that context, it struck me that I inadvertently wrote something the other day, about there being no political wish for minority-language status on the part of Arvanites, which contrasts starkly with another statement a bit further up, about the "Arvanitikos syllogos" campaigning for just such a status. I don't remember who introduced that statement, was it you? It's currently marked as unsourced. Is there anything we can do to resolve that question this way or the other? Thanks, Lukas (T.|@) 17:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
little Macedonist
If you're going to come running to me with tales of outrage, at least make them accurate :P - FrancisTyers · 00:51, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
- Telex, as much as I am tempted to expose Fran's scientific bias to overemphasize, I doubt that he's a worthy member of that list. /FunkyFly.talk_ 18:10, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Turkish names
Ok, they're on my watchlist now. BTW, I noticed in your map it says "Turkic" instead of "Turkish". What other language would it be besides Turkish? Crimean Tatar? Also, this map somewhat contradicts yours. —Khoikhoi 01:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
- In addition, what about the Cham Albanians? —Khoikhoi 01:06, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry for stalking:). Telex, i had told u that your map does not include Phodope Prefecture in turkish speaking areas. well, it should, cause this is where their majority lives. also, in Evros Prefecture the number of the turkish speakers is very low (u did well not to include it, but i think not good to ask for the turkish name to remain there - in case we are going to add names only according to were minority exists (something that won't be a supporter of). --Hectorian 01:12, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Haha!
Thanks :)) - FrancisTyers · 18:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Μπίρης
Νομίζω θα πρέπει να αναφέρουμε ότι ο Μπίρης αφιερώνει το μεγαλύτερο μέρος στην ιστορία τους με πολύ καλές βιβλιογραφικές αναφορές. Εσύ τι λες; Άλλες ιδέες για το τι να προσθέσουμε για τον Μπίρη; talk to +MATIA 07:23, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Δεν ξέρω. --Telex 13:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Κάπου έχω όλο το κείμενο του μανιφέστο (και θέλω να το δακτυλογραφήσω), αλλά τώρα δεν έχω κανένα βιβλίο πρόχειρο. Αν μπορείς πρόσθεσε οτιδήποτε σχετικό σε παρακαλώ. Ευχαριστώ :) talk to +MATIA 08:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Το έχω δακτυλογραφήσει εγώ. Αν θέλεις, μπορώ να σου το στείλω με e-mail. --Telex 13:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Και τέλος σε παρακαλώ γραψε τι κατάλαβες εσύ για τους Δωριείς από τον Μπίρη. Είναι ένας παραλληλισμος (έτσι κατάλαβα εγώ) ή είναι θεωρία καταγωγής όπως οι Πελασγοί του Κόλλια; talk to +MATIA 11:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Νομίζω ότι είναι παραλληλισμός, αλλά όπως ξέρεις, αποδίδει στους Αρβανίτες Ιλλυρική καταγωγή (ή έτσι καταλαβαίνω), και στη σελίδα 25 λέει ότι «υπάρχει μια θεωρία που ταυτίζει τους Δωριείς με τους Ιλλύριους και τοποθετεί την κοιτίδα τους πολύ βορειότερα. Αλλά, αν το δεύτερο αληθεύει ως προϋπόθεση, μάλλον συνέβη βαθμιαία κάθοδος των δύο λαών, με την οποίαν ο βορειότερος, οι Ιλλύριοι, κάλυπτε ολοένα τις χώρες του νοτιότερου, των Δωριέων, και εν μέρει συγχωνεύτηκε μαζί του. Έτσι, επόμενο ήταν να προκύψουν ενδείξεις των δύο λαών επάλληλες, που δημιούργησαν την εντύπωση της ταύτισή τους». Ουσιαστικά, λέει ότι ίσως οι πρόγονοι των Αρβανιτών και οι Δωριείς ζούσαν την ίδια περιοχή, με το αποτέλεσμα να μοιάσουν και να δίνεται η εντύπωση ότι οι Αρβανίτες έχουν Δωρική καταγωγή (ή το αντίστροφο). --Telex 13:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, this is beginning to make sense. Thanks for clarifying. I was discussing a few things with Matia off-wiki, and the question came up there. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Do you want it in English, or do you get the full picture? --Telex 13:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Οχι, και στα ελληνικά μια χαρά μου κάνει. Ευχαριστώ. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:58, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Μου έρχεται στο νου η υποψία ότι κάτι λείπει από τον Πύργο σου της Βαβέλ. --Telex 14:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Δε σας είπα πως εκτός από Σιλιγγοχερουσκικές έχω και (αρβανιτο?)-(βλαχο?)-ρουμελιώτικες συνδέσεις; Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Μου έρχεται στο νου η υποψία ότι κάτι λείπει από τον Πύργο σου της Βαβέλ. --Telex 14:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ασχετα τώρα, εκείνον το Ρατζπούτ με τα ρεβέρτ του τον κάψαμε τελικά, έφαγε απεριόριστο. :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:03, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ωραία, θα ησυχάσουμε (για τις επόμενες τρεις μέρες τουλάχιστον). --Telex 14:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Οχι, και στα ελληνικά μια χαρά μου κάνει. Ευχαριστώ. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:58, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Do you want it in English, or do you get the full picture? --Telex 13:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, this is beginning to make sense. Thanks for clarifying. I was discussing a few things with Matia off-wiki, and the question came up there. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, Telex
One other view is described in the Serbian dictionary for international terms called "Vujaklija", I'll search for other sources, but to be logical, you know that I'm right, and that the term "Macedonism" refers also and to Greek Macedonian culture, according to me you should ad that in the article, not to remove it.--Vlatko 15:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- This is the first time I've heard of something like that. cite a source, or begone! --Telex 13:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thanx for beeing Flexible, but just for you Il find.--Vlatko 15:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Joshua Project
I actually do use it sometimes, just not when there is more reliable data such as censuses, the UN, etc. It's pretty reliable, but sometimes vague as well. Overall it can be a great help though yes. Thanks. Tombseye 21:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Or this comment. He did get punished, he recently got blocked for 1 month by Ronline because it was revealed that the IP that was vandalizing Jmabel's user page and leaving nasty comments was him. Ciao. —Khoikhoi 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Check your email. :) —Khoikhoi 22:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Γιάντα...
...ωρέ κοπέλι δε θες να πέμψεις τούτο το κατεβατό παέ; NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 23:03, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ουκ εκατάλαβον. --Telex 23:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ποντικοπέρασέ το για. NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 23:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Не, бидејќи не сум сигурен ако оваа страница е готова за да ја гледа светот. --Telex 23:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, θα προσπαθήσω χωρίς να ξέρω: "'Οχι, δες δεν είμαι σίγουρος για την παράξενη και...??" Να ψάξω για μεταφραστή ή θα μου πείς τι λές? NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 23:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ρε συ, δεν ντρέπεσαι; Δεν ξέρεις τη πραγματική γλώσσα της Μακεδονίας (τα Μακεδονικά), η οποία μιλιέται από πάνω από διακόσιες χιλιάδες άτομα στην Αιγαιακή Μακεδονία (οι οποίοι κρύβονται); Είπα ότι δε θα το μετακινήσω επειδή δεν είμαι βέβαιος αν είναι έτοιμο ακόμα. --Telex 23:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Σκούζι, απλά εκείνο το "στράνιτσα" μού'κανε για "στρειντζ". Τα άτομα ήταν περίπου 380,000 με 1,000,000, οι υπόλοιποι 1,200,000 είναι Πόντιοι και υπάρχουν και καμιά 300αριά χιλιάδες Έλληνες... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 23:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ακριβώς! Εγώ στέλνω τα παιδιά μου να μάθουν Μακεδονικά, και όχι Αγγλικά. Τα Μακεδονικά είναι μια αρχαία γλώσσα ενός αρχαίου λαού, με εθνική ιστορία πάνω από
πενήντατρεις χιλιάδες χρόνων. Εσύ; --Telex 00:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ακριβώς! Εγώ στέλνω τα παιδιά μου να μάθουν Μακεδονικά, και όχι Αγγλικά. Τα Μακεδονικά είναι μια αρχαία γλώσσα ενός αρχαίου λαού, με εθνική ιστορία πάνω από
- Παραδόξως και οι πραγματικοί και οι Γιαλαντζί Μακεδόνες πρέπει πράγματι να μίλαγαν την ίδια γλώσσα πρίν από 53,000 χρόνια! Πάλι καλά, τώρα ξέρω ποιά γλώσσα να μάθω στην κόρη μου... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 00:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- Δεν έχεις αίσθηση του χιούμορ! Έγραψα ότι έχουν εθνική ιστορία πενήντα χρόνων, μετά το έσβησα, και το «διόρθωσα» γράφοντας τριών χιλιάδων χρόνων. --Telex 00:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
-- logged out --Telex 00:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- Νόμιζα ότι ήταν 2006-1945=61 χρόνια. Ντροπή σου εσένα που σβήνεις έτσι εύκολα το 18.03% της ιστορίας ενός ολόκληρου λαού για να προωθήσεις τις εθνικιστικές σου πεποιθήσεις! 'Νύχτα και σε σένα! NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 00:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Numbers
How prevalent is that number of 800000 people in the Republic of Macedonia though? We all know the diaspora tends to overexaggerate things a bit, Vlatko claims 1.2 million for example, but I was thinking of a more mainstream number, which most people believe in. /FunkyFly.talk_ 15:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- The more ridiculous the numbers are, the less readers are likely to believe that Macedonist junk. --Telex 15:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- Or more likely to dismiss it as an outright attack... /FunkyFly.talk_ 15:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- It is sourced - we're just stating the facts. I admit it is slightly higher than mkwiki's claim of 750,000, but what we are describing in that article are Macedonian nationalists, not their government (which claimed 230,000). --Telex 16:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'm putting the numbers from United Macedonia then. /FunkyFly.talk_ 16:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- OK (they are all I could find - if you've got higher ones, let's include those as well). --Telex 16:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- Looks like the article has angered Miskin, and I can sort of guess the reason. We might have to do a disambiguation: Macedonism (political idea) and Macedonism (culture), if that will help. /FunkyFly.talk_ 19:30, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Χμμμ I kaltsa
Έχεις καταλάβει οτι αυτός που έκανε αυτό έχει εκτός από την ανάποδη λογική, και το ανάποδο όνομα από σένα? Επίσης, ρίξε μια ματιά στο WP:ANI#List of unrecognised countries... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 09:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Boris na prosehis afton me to andistrofo onoma apo mena. Den ti boro tin taleporia. --Telex 10:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ton exw fermarismeno alla den kanei tipota pros to paron... NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 10:26, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Telex, you might want to have a look at the situation over at the Adjara page. Check out this comment. —Khoikhoi 17:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
There is a new article
The names of the great city Konstandinupoli has special page for ist names also covers etymology too. I hope you would embarace this page instead of filling the introduction with every other names, as each one has their only a chauvinist wright to have their name their; I guess you do agree with this, check this list copied from the first sentence.Thnks!--OttomanReference 18:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Turkish: İstanbul
- Ottoman Turkish: قسطنطنيه (Kostantiniyye)
- Latin name: Constantinopolis, Nova Roma
- Roman name: CONSTANTINVPOLIS
- Greek: Κωνσταντινούπολη
- Byzantine Greek: Κωνσταντινούπολη
- Koine Greek name: Κωνσταντινούπολις (Konstantinoupolis)
- Old Church Slavonic: Цѣсарьградъ
- Church Slavonic: Царьгра̀дъ
- Russian: Царьгра́д
- Bulgarian: Ца̀риград (Tsarigrad)
- Romanian: Ţarigrad
- Ukrainian: Царгород
- Serbian: Цариград (Carigrad), also rendered as Czargrad and Tzargrad
- Scandinavian Varangian: Miklagård
- Azeri Latin name: Konstantinopolis
- Arabic name: قسطنطينية (Kostantiniyya)
- Armenian: commonly referred to as "Polis/Bolis" (Պոլիս)
- Armenian: Ստամբուլը
- Bulgarian: Истанбул
- Kurdish: Stenbol
- Macedonian: Цариград (Carigrad)
- Macedonian: Истанбул (Istanbul), also is used and the form Стамбол (Stambol), a short version of the original name.
- Well... quite a few of these are irrelevant, and I have no objection to adding them. Will you do it, or shall I? --Telex 18:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
That What about Konstandinupoli, the page Constantinople will have them too? --OttomanReference 18:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
BE just cool about this. The people who you are objecting are the ones who want to find a center position in this war of names... You seem to be a good person. Come and join us to end this non productive thing...--OttomanReference 18:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Fine. I admit that Istanbul is slightly more important in almost in all respects than Komotini, and there are significantly more relevant names for Istanbul and there is a seperate page for them. --Telex 19:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Solanki
Thanks for the help on reverting edits, made without basis or evidence.
Ther is a lot of this happening
Ravi Chaudhary 20:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- How can I thank you enough for the ~100 reverts you effected today? I really appreciate it. One quick question: I notice that you managed to make over a dozen reverts a minute. Can you tell me how to do this? It would be really useful to me, given my present troubles. Best regards, ImpuMozhi 23:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Ethnic Identity in Greece
I am making article of it. Luka Jačov 08:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Telex, I can understand you want time to work on this article quietly before you put it in the main namespace - but I too think it is actually mature enough to release it and let others work on it too. Why do you object so much? - By the way, I wouldn't call other people moving it to an article vandalism - after all, don't forget you already released it under GFDL, so if Luka wants to make it an article, there's nothing to stop him... Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:21, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that it's compient with the content policies of Wikipedia. There's a lot of unreferenced material. I'm also not certain of the validity of that 1991 census. As far as I know, the Greek government does not explicitly recognize a Turkish minority, let alone count them in the censi. I copied that table from a Greek book, and I'd like to crosscheck a few things first. Moreover, I was going to merge this into Demographics of Greece, rather than create a second POV fork (second to Minority groups in Greece). --Telex 10:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- Telex is right. Using the census scholars have attempted to extrapolate the numbers of the muslim minorities, but the results are different, even if the variations among the scholars are not very big.--Aldux 11:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not actually in Oslo yet, I leave tommorow. The Minority groups in Greece rewrite definately looks good. Most of the stuff I put in would probably be more at home in Human rights in Greece to be honest. - FrancisTyers · 20:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
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A Simple Favor
Hi Telex. I was wondering if you could help me. For the past few days, I have been trying to acquire information about the stradioti, but I ultimately failed. If it is alright with you, could you please look into Biris' work and tell me what he states about Jacomo Barbarigo or Marco Barbarigo in regards to the Arvanites or the stradioti? I would really appreciate it. A full citation of Biris' statements would be most helpful. Respond whenever you can. Thank you and take care. Deucalionite 21:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi Telex. What is happening, why we have pov titles on Republic of Macedonia, Macedonians (ethnic group) and replacement of names in Macedonia (region)? MatriX 12:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, I was present in Skopje then (for some other business of course:) and I saw the demonstrations. I think they were the biggest demonstrations held in Skopje as I know. Unfortunately, I have no images available, I found only this link so far:[16] (see FYROM - a temporary reference section). I also hope our countries will find a way to resolve this dispute so we can discuss more interesting things;) MatriX 15:44, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- I think the things are pretty much calmed down (if we compare with the period before 10 years for example), lets hope that this trend will continue.MatriX 16:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi
It's very funny, especially the thing that Bulgarians think that even Bosnia&Hercegovina (according to Evlia Celebia) is even more-western Bulgaria ;-) Bomac 15:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- Kalo fainetai. eida oti ekanes kapoies diorthoseis. prosthesa oti sunithws theorountai Boulgaroi. btw, ithela na sou pw gia to Joshua Project kai ton arithmo Ellinwn pou dinei gia ta skopia, alla profanws me prolaves:) --Hectorian 16:15, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Pomaks
I thought that was one of those things you simply know but can't prove, because there simply be a lack of sources, but it turns out sources about it can be found after all!
Anyway, the Pomaks even in Bulgaria sometimes prefer to be called not Bulgarians, but Turks, simply Muslims, or Pomaks, but as a separate ethnic group from Turks and Bulgarians. This disunity, in addition to their specific character, makes them a generally easy target for assimilation, so nothing suprising. Todor→Bozhinov 18:20, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Christian Hajji
Hi! Please see the second paragraph of the hajji article that I wrote. Was/Is the title used by Greeks to mean a Christian's pilgrimage to Jerusalem? What about Orthodox Albanians?
If it is used, how should it be rendered in the Greek alphabet? I'm almost certain it's haxhi in Albanian, but can't pick out the Christian usage (if any) from the Muslim one. Todor→Bozhinov 17:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know, never heard of it. Hajji are usually called χατζήδες (hadzídhes) in Greek (I'm not aware of any Christian usage). As for Albanian, I haven't got a clue. Sorry :-( --Tēlex 17:55, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Babiniotis is your friend (Λεξικό της Νέας Ελληνικής Γλώσσας), vide "χατζής": "in popular speech, a pilgrim to the Holy Sites, namely to Jerusalem in case of Christians, or to Mekka and Medina in the case of Muslims". Also note the very widespread use of Greek family names in "Χατζη-", which seems to indicate that the practice must have been fairly important. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Also see the name of Gheorghe Hagi (Aromanian orgin). greier 18:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Babiniotis is your friend (Λεξικό της Νέας Ελληνικής Γλώσσας), vide "χατζής": "in popular speech, a pilgrim to the Holy Sites, namely to Jerusalem in case of Christians, or to Mekka and Medina in the case of Muslims". Also note the very widespread use of Greek family names in "Χατζη-", which seems to indicate that the practice must have been fairly important. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Fut.Perf., exactly that type of surnames was what interested me, as it's present in Balkan Slavic countries, but I had no knowledge about its use in other Christian countries formerly under Ottoman rule. Many thanks!
- As for Hagi, his name crossed my mind (and I'm aware of his origin), but it may not be certain Aromanians use(d) it in the same way. Todor→Bozhinov 18:17, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Glad to be of help. I've added it to the article. Shall we have a little edit war over whether to put the Slavic or the Greek form first? ;-) ducking away... Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Sure, let's wage war! :) (adding the page to Category:Wars in the Balkans that he was just browsing) Todor→Bozhinov 18:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Glad to be of help. I've added it to the article. Shall we have a little edit war over whether to put the Slavic or the Greek form first? ;-) ducking away... Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Surprise!
To our many future quarrels ;-)--Aldux 18:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
![]() |
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar | |
To a truly tireless editor Aldux 18:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC) |
- Coo... thanks :-) --Tēlex 18:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
# of Albanians...
I am sorry, but you are acting unreasonable. I am merely stating a fact not an opinion --Cigor 18:55, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- You are claiming without proof that there is no or little spillage of Albanian votes to other parties. --Tēlex 18:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Anti-Hungarian
Thanks, maybe I could ask some of the Hungarian editors to help expand it (there are more of them than you think!). And text time Bonaparte comes around I can point him there. —Khoikhoi 20:17, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Done. —Khoikhoi 22:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Minorities in greece
Maybe you should made a different section about thrace minority where you will explain what they are considered and by who, and delete both the turkish and muslim (not the whole) sections. Mitsos 08:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- I've changed the section headings to clarify that the present "Muslim" section is actually intended as a subsection of "Slavic-speaking", and thus covers only the Pomaks. That wasn't too clear from the heading layout. I think it makes sense to keep the whole article structured by languages primarily. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Census and Bulgarians
The census does not mean that the Greek belong to a greek minority because it covers all the people who are present at the time of the census even if they living there for a few weeks as guests. Until the population exchanges with Greece there were Greeks in Bulgaria (Petric, Melnik, 'Nevrokop', Plovdiv and Black Sea coast) who had to go to Greece, and Bulgarians in Greece ('Lerin', Serres, Kavala but especially many villages) who had to go to Bulgaria. The truth is that most Bulgarians lived in villages in Greece and most Greeks lived in towns in Bulgaria. Today Bulgaria and Greece do not have a problem about minorities with each other because they have priorities to build a strong region for everybody. All this emphasis on demographics idiotic talk is by irredentist of republic of madedonia and I think it must be cut down to a few lines. Makedonija 16:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Over 50,000 people from republic of macedonia have applied for Bulgarian passport. There are I think up to 2,000 students from same country in Bulgarian universities and many complain about Bulgaria but they accept to enjoy the benefits like Bulgarians. They follow the lessons with no problems in a language they do not understand, Bulgarian!!! Also VMRO-DMPN party has many members that want to be part of Bulgaria. All these figures have not come up in statistics because people are intimidated against saying they are Bulgarians. Makedonija 16:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Comment
Which means you Greeko-guys are not much different ;-) Bomac 16:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, the Greek users are very neutral and the Greek Wikipedia is very NPOV (when compared to other >>> mkwiki). --Tēlex 16:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Aha... Let's see: PGDM about R. of Macedonia, Makedonia for Greek Macedonia, Archiep. of Ohrid for MOC, Slavomakedonika for Macedonian language... Geez, neutrality rocks in grwiki. Bomac 16:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Naming does not determine neutrality. Elwiki does not make blatantly false claims - for example, the number of "Slavomakedones" in Greece is presented more neutrally than in mkwiki. Furthermore, this terminology is more common in the Greek language. --Tēlex 16:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Then why reactions - Egejska Makedonija to be renamed in Grchka Makedonija? That terminology is more common in Macedonian language. The number of Macedonians in Greece varies even in the non-Macedonian statistics. Simply - the Greek POV rules about the issue in grwiki. Bomac 16:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- There is a difference when it comes to POV terminology. I am not complaining about Egejska Makedonija - I am complaining about irredentist terminology such as Etnička Makedonija. --Tēlex 16:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
,,Irredentist" is greek POV. Simply, ,,Etnichka Makedonija" is widely used in Macedonian language. Bomac 16:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
That is what we are trying to explain to you Bomac, you are so indoctrinated that you do not see it. The Bulgarians do not use 'ethnic Bulgaria' for lands around Bulgaria or the Greeks 'ethnic Greece' for lands around Greece, you the 'macedonians' are the ones using it and you think it is normal! The Serbs used 'ethnic Serbia' and they went to war killing everybody and then have a war of 'ethnic cleasing' for their 'ethnic Serbia'. That propaganda has infected people like you want and you use the same language and you probably dream of war. Makedonija 17:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Boreia Epiros is widely used in Greek to refer to southern Albania, but elwiki deleted the article on that topic [17]. It is irrendetist language. --Tēlex 17:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
But they use "Macedonians" no matter that there is a Macedonian nation. Bomac 17:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- I don't understand what you're getting at. --Tēlex 18:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Not using Macedonians instead of "Macedonians" is the point. Bomac 18:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Where? And, even if it did, look at what the US State Department says: A number of citizens identified themselves as Turks, Pomaks, Vlachs, Roma, Arvanites (Orthodox Christians who speak a dialect of Albanian), or "Macedonians" or "Slavomacedonians." ([18]). --Tēlex 19:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh please! Nevermind. Bomac 19:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Anyway, you're wrong. Scare quotes ("") are not used in the Greek language. --Tēlex 19:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Telex. It appears FF already got to it, I'm busy with the AOL vandal right now. —Khoikhoi 19:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hold up, I'm busy. —Khoikhoi 20:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'd probably break 3RR if I reverted him, better be safe than sorry. —Khoikhoi 20:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- I see (forgot). --Tēlex 20:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Слушај ВАМУ
Колку што сакаш другар шири пропаганда, нема да ти успее!! Ако мислиш дека ќе ме стопираш гадно си се заебал!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by LBakraceski (talk • contribs)
- Listen. No matter how many friends you invite to spread propaganda, it wont be!! If you think you might stop me, you're screwed!! /FunkyFly.talk_ 00:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Causion against removing the POV tags
Please note that removing the POV-tags does not help to resolve disputes. The tag should indicate the disagrement until the dispute is resolved as described in WP:DR--AndriyK 12:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- I think your concerns were answered long ago at Talk:Battle of the Lower Dnieper/Archive 2. --Tēlex 12:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Propaganda
In that case I will fell free to edit the Bulgarian website with my points of view. So lets see how is tougher, because apparently its the only way to talk with Bulgarians such as you are
- The European Union doesnt hold the legal power to recignise or not to recognise a country!! Read learn and then write!! Only the member states can do so!— Preceding unsigned comment added by LBakraceski (talk • contribs)
- Tēlex, you Bulgarian nationalist, how dare you! /FunkyFly.talk_ 15:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- See User talk:LBakraceski#Deletions. --Tēlex 15:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- I should try that kind of reasoning on my colleagues at my job. /FunkyFly.talk_ 15:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Kaltses (h mallon Kalson)...
...mia kai mallon milame gia thn Inanna. Koita se parakalw to Cyprus kai kane ta deonta... :NikoSilver: 15:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Re.
Much ;-) Bomac 16:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Aw... shucks! Now you made me revert myself! You'll have to revert me to readd it ;-) --Tēlex 16:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Wholly is a diplomatic word in this case... In reality, every single country from EU (except Greece, ofcourse) refers the country as ,,Macedonia". ;-) Bomac 17:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Prove it. Only Poland recognizes you as "(Republic of) Macedonia". --Tēlex 17:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Again - diplomacy. Everywhere where Greece doesn't listen, the country is reffered to it's constitutional name - Macedonia. Bomac 17:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
What about it? Bomac 17:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- How do people refer to you when Greece doesn't listen, but they do? --Tēlex 17:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, they are too busy with the Turkish northern part, so they don't listen ;-) Bomac 17:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, the world is an evil place. You get these chauvinists who just can't leave people alone. The USSR divided seperated R. Moldova from the rest of Romania, Turkey seperated Cyprus from the rest of Greece, Yugoslavia seperated Kosovo from Albania, Yugoslavia also seperated R. Macedonia from Bulgaria, England seperated Northern Ireland from R. Ireland etc. These people split nations! --Tēlex 17:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Guess what is my opinion? ;-) I agree that world is a hell of a place. Bomac 17:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Of course you do. That's why as far as Greece is concerned, stolen Aegean Macedonia is for the keepings. --Tēlex 17:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, am I forbidden to defend myself from the attacks of long-gone pall Theathenae? Greek Macedonia is undoubtedly important for R. Macedonia in cultural way. Many prominent Macedonians are from that region, even one of the most prominent - Misirkov, born in Vergina (Kutlesh). Bomac 17:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- So let me get it straight, you defend yourself by accusing other people of stealing? /FunkyFly.talk_ 17:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
No. Bomac 18:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- The you're either lying or being inconsistent. /FunkyFly.talk_ 18:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Constantinople (Istanbul) is important for Greeks in an even more significant cultural and historical way. At present though, the Megali Idea (which had as its aim Greece to annex Constantinople) is long gone. On the other hand, the doctrines of Macedonism and United Macedonia are rampaging in the minds of young Macedonians such as Vlatko, making them think that there is a realistic opportunity of an annexation of any sort. The worse victims of those doctrines are the Macedonians themselves, as they will only be disappointed in life when their ambitions never materialize (just as the Greeks' and everyone else's irredentist ambitions never materialized). --Tēlex 17:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Let me remind you Telex - I said cultural way, I didn't mentioned unification. Bomac 18:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Do all other Macedonian (people/Wikipedians) agree? --Tēlex 18:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Μία χάρη
Αν μπορείς να μου κάνεις μια χάρη, κοίταξε σε παρακαλώ λίγο αυτή την κάπως άσχημη δουλειά. Εχω αυτό το πρόβλημα με τον Δ. και του κάνω αναγκαστικά "stalking" για να καθαρίσω τα άρθρα του. Κοίτα λίγο και την ιστορία μου των τελευταίων μερών, σχεδόν όλα που έκανα έχουν σχεσή με αυτόν. Αν μπορείς, βάλε τη σελίδα μου και κάποια απ αυτά τα άρθρα στο watchlist σου, γιατί αυτός είναι πολύ εκνευρισμένος μαζί μου, και δεν ξέρω τι θα κάνει όταν δει τι του έκανα πάλι. Κάπως λυπάμαι κι ο ίδιος που το κάνω, αλλά πρέπει, έχει τα μαύρα χάλια της όλη αυτή η ιστορία. Πες μου την άποψή σου για το θέμα, πως να το διαχειρίζω τώρα καλύτερα; Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Δεν ξέρω τι να πω, δεν καταλαβαίνω πιο είναι το πρόβλημα, edit wars ή κάτι άλλο; Τα έχω βάλει όλα στο watchlist, και βλέπουμε. --Tēlex 18:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, I just wanted somebody to watch this whole affair - it's a wretched business and I basically just don't want to be alone with it. Watch out in case D. does anything desperate and disruptive (he already made two brief attempts at sockpuppetry), or tell me if I'm taking it too far. I'll probably have to take it to RfC pretty soon, as things are going now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Two quotes
Two of my favorite quotes. :D
—Khoikhoi 00:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Outlook
To diko sou den exei kampanaki mallon e? :NikoSilver: 00:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
POV tag
Please pay attention to [19]:
- Dispute tags are an important way for people to show that there are problems with the article. Do not remove them unless you are sure that the dispute is settled. As a general rule, do not remove other people's dispute tags twice during a 24 hour period.
If ou are in varience with the WP policy, request for arbitration involving you may filled and you may be blocked.--Mbuk 06:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)