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:I'm not going to involve myself with this Arbcom case as it involves two people that make WP feel like a dirty place to me. I did what I could during the first ANI of Sep 2014, to have this problematic editor stopped (or at least closely monitored) but nothing happened back then. I suspect that Wikicology received personal messages from an admin or admins back then somewhere halfway through the original ANI, that he wouldn't be banned. I base this suspicion on the fact that at a certain moment, WC went from being extremely apologetic to becoming snarky again: ''"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=627329146 If you think I will be blocked or ban for this, by an administrator, it won't happen.]"''. Just wondering who the admin or admins were? And where are they now that the shit that they created hit the fan? As for WC's bid for adminship: why would the nominator, [[User:Davidcannon]] (who's apparently been off-wiki for a while and only resurfaced with an edit today), have introduced WC as a lecturer? DavidCannon apparently didn't know WC at all before ''"This user approached me with a nomination request"'' so I can only conclude that WC himself wrote that he was a lecturer in his request to DavidCannon. And WC [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_adminship%2FWikicology&type=revision&diff=688206504&oldid=688205658 reaffirmed the claim] to be a lecturer again later in the discussion concerning his adminship bid. But after the second ANI, WC suddenly states [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Irondome&diff=prev&oldid=713364411 ''"there is no place I claim to be a University lecturer"'']. Hopefully DavidCannon can shed some light on WC's claim to be a lecturer during his adminship bid. - [[User:Takeaway|Takeaway]] ([[User talk:Takeaway|talk]]) 10:49, 23 April 2016 (UTC) |
:I'm not going to involve myself with this Arbcom case as it involves two people that make WP feel like a dirty place to me. I did what I could during the first ANI of Sep 2014, to have this problematic editor stopped (or at least closely monitored) but nothing happened back then. I suspect that Wikicology received personal messages from an admin or admins back then somewhere halfway through the original ANI, that he wouldn't be banned. I base this suspicion on the fact that at a certain moment, WC went from being extremely apologetic to becoming snarky again: ''"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=627329146 If you think I will be blocked or ban for this, by an administrator, it won't happen.]"''. Just wondering who the admin or admins were? And where are they now that the shit that they created hit the fan? As for WC's bid for adminship: why would the nominator, [[User:Davidcannon]] (who's apparently been off-wiki for a while and only resurfaced with an edit today), have introduced WC as a lecturer? DavidCannon apparently didn't know WC at all before ''"This user approached me with a nomination request"'' so I can only conclude that WC himself wrote that he was a lecturer in his request to DavidCannon. And WC [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_adminship%2FWikicology&type=revision&diff=688206504&oldid=688205658 reaffirmed the claim] to be a lecturer again later in the discussion concerning his adminship bid. But after the second ANI, WC suddenly states [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Irondome&diff=prev&oldid=713364411 ''"there is no place I claim to be a University lecturer"'']. Hopefully DavidCannon can shed some light on WC's claim to be a lecturer during his adminship bid. - [[User:Takeaway|Takeaway]] ([[User talk:Takeaway|talk]]) 10:49, 23 April 2016 (UTC) |
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:: You are right. I didn't know of the existence of Wikicology before he approached me, asking for a nomination. I took his claims to academic credentials (which I seem to remember reading on his user page, though my memory is foggy now) face value — perhaps you could accuse me of being too trusting, and I probably was in this case. The long and the short of it is that I had just a brief look at some of his edits, saw nothing to raise my eyebrows, and didn't really look before I leapt. And by the way, whoever the admin was that told WC he wouldn't be banned, it wasn't me. I knew nothing about any of these controversies. |
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[[User:Davidcannon|David Cannon]] ([[User talk:Davidcannon|talk]]) 11:59, 23 April 2016 (UTC) |
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== ''Wikicology'' arbitration case opened == |
== ''Wikicology'' arbitration case opened == |
Revision as of 12:01, 23 April 2016
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You may {{Archive basics}} to |counter= 7
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Thanks
Thanks for the editing tip! I am trying my best to make the articles as comprehensive as they can be. For the articles about the mountain bike riders, there isn't a ton that I can say about them, but I think it's enough for an article for someone to learn something about them. Rileyschneider (talk) 06:17, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
- Great, Rileyschneider; we realize that you are a good contributor; it's just that you needed a way to add more to your articles before they are posted live on Wikipedia. Another tip: In case you are not aware, the best thing on Google searches is to remember to put quotation marks around the name when searching, and also to remember to check GoogleNews in addition to web. I disagree that there's not much you can say about them. Yngvadottir's additions to your articles show that there is a lot of information and coverage. (If you can't find much about a particular cyclist, then they don't meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines and don't belong on Wikipedia.) Cheers, Softlavender (talk) 06:25, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
RfC announce: Religion in infoboxes
There is an RfC at Template talk:Infobox#RfC: Religion in infoboxes concerning what What should be allowed in the religion entry in infoboxes. Please join the discussion and help us to arrive at a consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:19, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Addition of Robert Davi comments on the "Great American Songbook" page
I posted some comments on the "Great American Songbook" (GAS) which you removed. Could you please tell me WHY you removed my comments? I gave credits to EVERY song name, music writer, and lyric writer of EACH and EVERY song I mentioned as shown below. The link to the GAS with my comments is below. In the reply I received from Wikipedia (below) it states,
"This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Zanmia (talk | contribs) at 09:53, 27 December 2015 (Added Robert Davi to the "Other Singers" section of the "Great American Songbook"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Great_American_Songbook&oldid=696979612 ),
which may differ significantly from the current revision ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Songbook )."
What exactly are you talking about when you say, "This is an old revision of this page"? The COMMENTS I added were TOTALLY NEW and NOT a "REVISION". What EXACTLY do I need to do to have my comments included in the GAS page?
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Great_American_Songbook§ion=9 “Other Singers”
“Actor turned singer Robert Davi has turned his attention from acting to his lifetime love and passion singing. Through his singing he is bringing the greatness that is the "Great American Songbook" to audiences new and old both in concert and on his recordings. His recordings include such classics as "All The Way" written by Jimmy Van Heusen with lyrics by Sammy Cahn, "I've Got The World On A String" written by Harold Arlen with lyrics by Ted Koehler, "Too Marvelous For Words" written by Richard A. Whiting with lyrics by Johnny Mercer, "Summer Wind" written by Heinz Meier with lyrics by Johnny Mercer, and too many more to list. They can be found on "Davi Sings Sinatra On The Road To Romance" at http://davisingssinatra.com/ “
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Zanmia (talk | contribs) at 09:53, 27 December 2015 (Added Robert Davi to the "Other Singers" section of the "Great American Songbook"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Great_American_Songbook&oldid=696979612 ),
which may differ significantly from the current revision ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Songbook ).
(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
[hide]This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
This article possibly contains original research. (November 2009)
This article needs additional citations for verification. (December 2014)
Thanks, Mike Zanmia (talk) 02:37, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
- Hello, Zanmia. What you are mistaking for a "reply" is not a reply, but simply the Wikipedia software's banner on an old and archived version (the version with your edit) of the article. As to your question about my removal of the text you added, this sort of question/discussion belongs on the talk page of the article itself, so any further discussion belongs there. I will however give a brief explanation: Davi appears insufficiently noteworthy in this context in the GAS Wikipedia article, which is already overrun with too much insufficiently relevant information. Plus the information was uncited and obviously promotional. Please do not respond further here on my talk page; if you have any further questions or comments please post them on the talk page of that article. Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 23:21, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Did you notice ...
... this? Cheers! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 11:16, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
If you are interested
Hello S. I hope that you 2016 is off to a good start. Pauline Collins is a longtime favorite of mine. I wanted to let you know about this sale price on her series The Ambassador. It never aired in my part of the world so I am looking forward to seeing it. Features Denis Lawson and Peter Egan as well :-) Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 20:10, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- Wow that does look good, M. I love all those actors. I'll check into a it a bit further and see if I want to spring for it or if it's on Amazon Instant or whatever. By the way, are you watching War and Peace? My boy Jack Lowden, whose wiki article I wrote, is in the main cast as Nikolai Rostov so I've gotten the BBC broadcasts from my Twitter friend as they air (U.S. airing is cutting about 11% of the footage). Loving it so far, even though not as deep or thorough as Tolstoy. Lowden is quite fine, captures the part perfectly (in fact more than any other actor in the miniseries he captures his character as Tolstoy wrote it). Ta, Softlavender (talk) 20:46, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for mentioning W&P. I am such a techno-dinosaur that I haven't gotten around to streaming shows yet. I know that means I am missing some wonderful programs. I will hope to get a chance to catch it one day though. I have to see it since I've read the book a couple times. I've also seen the 1956 film, the 1960 film series and the BBC 1972 series. I even saw the opera many years ago. Of course the comedy version is full of laughs and takes much less time to watch :-) Thanks again. MarnetteD|Talk 21:09, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- Whoa, you're way more up on W&P than me. I've only seen the Hepburn/Fonda film, ages ago. I hadn't read the book before this holiday season, so I started around Christmas and have been keeping just ahead of the BBC episodes. I imagine the DVD will come out at some point; hopefully you can acquire the British DVD rather than the U.S. one with all the cuts. (It's an Andrew Davies adaptation, for better of for worse.) :-) Softlavender (talk) 21:16, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- I'll keep my fingers crossed for a DVD release. I have a region free player so getting the UK version will be the way to go. If you can ever track it down the 72 version is an interesting watch if only to see an impossibly young Anthony Hopkins. Do you think that the Beeb will ever make everything available for streaming and just charge us the going rate? MarnetteD|Talk 21:22, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- In terms of the Beeb, it would be nice if they did, and would help offset the Tory budget cuts and its possible imminent destruction. There's been a fair amount of discussion on IMDB with proponents of the Anthony Hopkins version and also his portrayal. Not having seen that to compare, I'm quite happy with Paul Dano, who embodies Pierre as written quite well and quite likeably within the confines of this truncated production; in fact, he's gotten the bulk of the praise so far. Softlavender (talk) 21:29, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for the info. Sergei Bondarchuk directed the Russian film series version and also starred as Pierre. It was a remarkable performance. If you ever go looking for it beware of truncated US DVD releases. This is the fully restored DVD set. Best regards. MarnetteD|Talk 22:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- In terms of the Beeb, it would be nice if they did, and would help offset the Tory budget cuts and its possible imminent destruction. There's been a fair amount of discussion on IMDB with proponents of the Anthony Hopkins version and also his portrayal. Not having seen that to compare, I'm quite happy with Paul Dano, who embodies Pierre as written quite well and quite likeably within the confines of this truncated production; in fact, he's gotten the bulk of the praise so far. Softlavender (talk) 21:29, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- I'll keep my fingers crossed for a DVD release. I have a region free player so getting the UK version will be the way to go. If you can ever track it down the 72 version is an interesting watch if only to see an impossibly young Anthony Hopkins. Do you think that the Beeb will ever make everything available for streaming and just charge us the going rate? MarnetteD|Talk 21:22, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- Whoa, you're way more up on W&P than me. I've only seen the Hepburn/Fonda film, ages ago. I hadn't read the book before this holiday season, so I started around Christmas and have been keeping just ahead of the BBC episodes. I imagine the DVD will come out at some point; hopefully you can acquire the British DVD rather than the U.S. one with all the cuts. (It's an Andrew Davies adaptation, for better of for worse.) :-) Softlavender (talk) 21:16, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for mentioning W&P. I am such a techno-dinosaur that I haven't gotten around to streaming shows yet. I know that means I am missing some wonderful programs. I will hope to get a chance to catch it one day though. I have to see it since I've read the book a couple times. I've also seen the 1956 film, the 1960 film series and the BBC 1972 series. I even saw the opera many years ago. Of course the comedy version is full of laughs and takes much less time to watch :-) Thanks again. MarnetteD|Talk 21:09, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- Update: The Ambassador is on Amazon Prime Instant [1], so as a Prime member I can watch it for free anytime I want. Thanks for letting me know about it! Thanks for the tip on the full-length Russian W&P also. Yeah, I hated streaming until my CRT TV died in early 2010 and at that time figuring out which flatscreen to buy, especially on a remote island with only a small Sears store for choices, was too complicated, so I got into streaming. I haven't yet replaced my TV so I'm still streaming (and watching DVDs on my computer). These days most streaming will also stream to any TV or device, if one wishes. Softlavender (talk) 23:44, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- I am glad that you will be able to watch it at your leisure. No spoilers if you start watching before my DVD set arrives :-) MarnetteD|Talk 00:28, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
- Hi S. I've started watching the series. While it may not reach the heights of others I've enjoyed I can say that it is well written and I am enjoying it. You might find my post here Talk:The Ambassador (TV series) of some interest as well. Best regards and enjoy the rest of your weekend. MarnetteD|Talk 19:17, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- I forgot to say thank you for mentioning the availability of this series on AmazonPrime. I have let a couple friends know about this so that they can enjoy it as well. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 19:24, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Marnette, I just watched the second episode of the series last night, having watched the first episode a week or so ago. I enjoyed the first episode but I wasn't sure there would be enough of a plot in Dublin for much to happen in future episodes. Plus, although Pauline Collins is a fine actress, she doesn't have much emotional range (especially facially) in this (I guess ambassadors must be ambassadors), so that's a little frustrating and makes me wonder whether she was the best choice for the lead. Anyway, I'm enjoying it as my no-cost, watch-when-I-don't-have-anything-else-to-watch item. Right now I'm waiting for the final BBC1 episode of War&Peace tomorrow, which I'm enjoying immensely and reading the novel portions in advance of each airing (I'm on the Epilogue now). After I view the final episode I'll give you my impression of the whole. By the way, in terms of the various legitimate viewing options, for Americans, it is now on Amazon Instant [2], and in 6 parts like the BBC broadcasts, but each episode says ~43 minutes rather than the ~58 minutes of the BBC airings, so I think it's the cut American version. The uncut DVD is available for pre-order on Amazon UK [3] (wow, getting killed in the user ratings there, which don't match the glowing reviews/reports on IMDB, Twitter, news media, US Amazon, etc.). Since the final episode airs tomorrow, I imagine the UK DVD will ship soon. Softlavender (talk) 23:42, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- Well I hope I haven't lead you into a show that is turning you off - click - heehee. I am actually enjoying her performance as it is quiet compared to some of the comedies I know her from. That just goes to show that two people can have different reactions to the same thing :-) BTW if you haven't seen Quartet (2012 film) I recommend it as well. It really hit home in many respects. There are a number of laughs in it as well. Make sure to stay through the closing credits as it lists what form of entertainment that each of the cast made their life's work. MarnetteD|Talk 00:02, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for the mention, I've had that in the far back of my mind for some time. It's on Amazon Instant rental now so I've just now put it on my Amazon Watchlist. Later, Softlavender (talk) 00:08, 7 February 2016 (UTC) :)
- Well I hope I haven't lead you into a show that is turning you off - click - heehee. I am actually enjoying her performance as it is quiet compared to some of the comedies I know her from. That just goes to show that two people can have different reactions to the same thing :-) BTW if you haven't seen Quartet (2012 film) I recommend it as well. It really hit home in many respects. There are a number of laughs in it as well. Make sure to stay through the closing credits as it lists what form of entertainment that each of the cast made their life's work. MarnetteD|Talk 00:02, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Marnette, I just watched the second episode of the series last night, having watched the first episode a week or so ago. I enjoyed the first episode but I wasn't sure there would be enough of a plot in Dublin for much to happen in future episodes. Plus, although Pauline Collins is a fine actress, she doesn't have much emotional range (especially facially) in this (I guess ambassadors must be ambassadors), so that's a little frustrating and makes me wonder whether she was the best choice for the lead. Anyway, I'm enjoying it as my no-cost, watch-when-I-don't-have-anything-else-to-watch item. Right now I'm waiting for the final BBC1 episode of War&Peace tomorrow, which I'm enjoying immensely and reading the novel portions in advance of each airing (I'm on the Epilogue now). After I view the final episode I'll give you my impression of the whole. By the way, in terms of the various legitimate viewing options, for Americans, it is now on Amazon Instant [2], and in 6 parts like the BBC broadcasts, but each episode says ~43 minutes rather than the ~58 minutes of the BBC airings, so I think it's the cut American version. The uncut DVD is available for pre-order on Amazon UK [3] (wow, getting killed in the user ratings there, which don't match the glowing reviews/reports on IMDB, Twitter, news media, US Amazon, etc.). Since the final episode airs tomorrow, I imagine the UK DVD will ship soon. Softlavender (talk) 23:42, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- I forgot to say thank you for mentioning the availability of this series on AmazonPrime. I have let a couple friends know about this so that they can enjoy it as well. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 19:24, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- Hi S. I've started watching the series. While it may not reach the heights of others I've enjoyed I can say that it is well written and I am enjoying it. You might find my post here Talk:The Ambassador (TV series) of some interest as well. Best regards and enjoy the rest of your weekend. MarnetteD|Talk 19:17, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
- I am glad that you will be able to watch it at your leisure. No spoilers if you start watching before my DVD set arrives :-) MarnetteD|Talk 00:28, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
- Hi M, I just watched Quartet (2012 film). It is magnificent! Thanks so much for recommending it to me!!! xxx Softlavender (talk) 13:10, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
- You are welcome and I am so glad that you enjoyed it. I was fascinated that all of the performers had long careers in acting, music etc. Have a wonderful week. MarnetteD|Talk 16:11, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, that was fascinating in the end credits; had no idea that was the great Gwyneth Jones, for instance. The climactic quartet was so piercingly good I found it on YouTube: [4]. Here's another version also with Pavarotti and Sutherland, but with Leo Nucci and Isola Jones instead of Milnes and Tourangeau [5]; this one is not from the whole opera but from a Met Gala in 1987 -- the applause at the end is deafening and lasts more than a minute and a half. In terms of the delightful film, the leads were all actors I have loved for a long while; Tom Courtenay is a particular favorite of mine and I consider him an amazing chameleon. Softlavender (talk) 04:10, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- Courtenay is a long time favorite of mine as well. Thanks so much for the link as it is a wonderful performance. I have fallen head over heels for Isabel Leonard - here is one performance for your enjoyment. She is a marvelous mezzo whose acting equals her singing. The other thing I keep noticing and admiring is that she seems to have a deal of fun as well. She is going to appear at the Santa Fe Opera this summer but I am not sure if my schedule and budget are going to allow me to go. Thanks again for the link and cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 04:24, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- Ha, I forgot to post the second link; have added it now -- def worth a listen/watch. I'm not familiar with the name Isabel Leonard; I confess to not being as "up" on the opera world as I was when I lived in the Big Apple. Thanks, I'll give that a listen when I get up and turn off the radio -- I'm all settled in in my chair and the radio is too far away. :) Softlavender (talk) 04:47, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- All settled in is the way to go :-) I am glad you added the second link - I was afraid I was missing something (slow on the uptake is my middle name) because Milnes was listed in the one I watched. I saw him in "Girl of the Golden West" last century. MarnetteD|Talk 05:08, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- I watched the Isabel Leonard video. Wow, she is beautiful, a great actress, and has a powerful and extraordinary voice. (Her pitch seems off to me in a couple of places, but maybe that's an anomaly.) Hope you can get to see her -- that's sounds exciting. :-) While clicking thorugh some other of her and others' videos, I was reminded of one of my favorite mezzo moments of all time. It was in a master class by Pavarotti from 1979, televised and also reproduced later in a doco about him. I think it's actually the best performance of "Non so più cosa son" from Le Nozze di Figaro I've ever heard: [6]. I didn't catch the mezzo's name then, but now I see it was the 22-year-old Susanne Mentzer. I also love the things Pavarotti says to her. Anyway, if anyone is interested. Softlavender (talk) 08:39, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- All settled in is the way to go :-) I am glad you added the second link - I was afraid I was missing something (slow on the uptake is my middle name) because Milnes was listed in the one I watched. I saw him in "Girl of the Golden West" last century. MarnetteD|Talk 05:08, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- Ha, I forgot to post the second link; have added it now -- def worth a listen/watch. I'm not familiar with the name Isabel Leonard; I confess to not being as "up" on the opera world as I was when I lived in the Big Apple. Thanks, I'll give that a listen when I get up and turn off the radio -- I'm all settled in in my chair and the radio is too far away. :) Softlavender (talk) 04:47, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- Courtenay is a long time favorite of mine as well. Thanks so much for the link as it is a wonderful performance. I have fallen head over heels for Isabel Leonard - here is one performance for your enjoyment. She is a marvelous mezzo whose acting equals her singing. The other thing I keep noticing and admiring is that she seems to have a deal of fun as well. She is going to appear at the Santa Fe Opera this summer but I am not sure if my schedule and budget are going to allow me to go. Thanks again for the link and cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 04:24, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, that was fascinating in the end credits; had no idea that was the great Gwyneth Jones, for instance. The climactic quartet was so piercingly good I found it on YouTube: [4]. Here's another version also with Pavarotti and Sutherland, but with Leo Nucci and Isola Jones instead of Milnes and Tourangeau [5]; this one is not from the whole opera but from a Met Gala in 1987 -- the applause at the end is deafening and lasts more than a minute and a half. In terms of the delightful film, the leads were all actors I have loved for a long while; Tom Courtenay is a particular favorite of mine and I consider him an amazing chameleon. Softlavender (talk) 04:10, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- You are welcome and I am so glad that you enjoyed it. I was fascinated that all of the performers had long careers in acting, music etc. Have a wonderful week. MarnetteD|Talk 16:11, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Deletion discussions
You are invited to participate in discussions regarding the deletion of "Million Years Ago" and "Send My Love (To Your New Lover)":
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Million Years Ago (song)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Send My Love (To Your New Lover)
Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:21, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
You have been invited to join the Adele WikiProject, a WikiProject on the English Wikipedia dedicated to improving articles and lists related to Adele. If you are interested in joining, please visit the project page and add your name to the list of participants. Thank You. |
Lost in the wilderness
Um, I think you put this [7] in the entirely wrong thread. I think it goes here, and if your intention is to oppose blanket rules restricting image sizes, then you want to support the new text recently installed [8], which omits language like "As a general rule, do not change the image size from the default" and so on which two editors seem to want. EEng 13:19, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for alerting me to that. I still think the threads/proposals/whatnot are unwieldy and contradictory and hard to follow or fathom. I do not agree at all that specific px sizes should not be used, or that they should be discouraged; hence I don't think that I can in good faith support anything that I see as of yet. If someone ever sorts out the proposal to restoring the MOS like it was before all the one-size-fits-all stuff creeped in, I will support that. I think the only other kind of wording I might support is just a simple "In general, the default image-size setting should be used", but totally unqualified after that (i.e. no bold scare text that says deviation from that must have "very good reason"). Softlavender (talk) 14:05, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Am I misunderstanding you on the AfD?
Am I misunderstanding you on the autism AfD, or did you really mean to say news reports from reputable media organizations are not reliable sources for medical diagnoses under any circumstances? Aside from the fact that this contradicts WP:NEWSORG, this would render virtually any report of a medical diagnosis unreliable, unless of course you talked to the person or their doctor directly yourself, in which case that's original research obviously. I am starting to see the merits of the AfD on other grounds, but unless I'm missing something, which I hope I am, your claim takes things way, way too far. If I am missing something or misunderstanding you, I apologize. Smartyllama (talk) 20:33, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Don't stalk Mabelina
@Softlavender: what is your purpose in engaging in the ANI debate as to whether I should be booted off Wiki? This whole escapade launched by MIESIANIACAL is getting less and less savoury. Please advise. M Mabelina (talk) 06:26, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Softlavender: I can point out a saving grace for MIESIANIACAL and that is by his use of quotation marks. However, even the use of the term INEDUCABLE causes a legal minefield, which I have never wanted to get into. BUT, if such a statement remains anywhere on Wikipedia it could cause others to assume that it might be the case, following which yet another totally unnecessary bullying strategy comes undone costing loads of money... M Mabelina (talk) 06:54, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Softlavender: you just encouraged MIESIANIACAL to spread the use of a term which I had previously advised is offensive - was that your intention? M Mabelina (talk) 07:11, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
About copyvio
Hi Softlavender. On the AfD discussion for Amalia Carneri you suggested (in bold as if it were a reprimand) that if a writer copies their own stuff into a WP article it is automatically free of copyvio. Actually that's not quite right. WP:COPYVIO says " If the contributor is the copyright holder of the text, even if it is published elsewhere under different terms, they have the right to post it here under CC BY-SA and GFDL without violating copyright, so long as they provide a suitable release to the world under Wikipedia's licenses or a free license that is compatible with them." No such licence attached to the article. The action taken by another editor, to rewrite it, was therefore appropriate. Best, --Smerus (talk) 14:32, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Well done
You really lit the blue touch paper there, didn't you? I had got to a point where Mabelina had agreed to "cool off" (his words), and then you have gone and stoked things up again. Would this "cooling off" have lasted? I don't know. But I know for definite that there was a significantly greater chance of it lasting without your intervention.
I am under no illusion as to the scale of the mountain Mabelina has to climb to get unblocked. I am also under no illusion as to the possible outcomes of any unblock request, but Mabelina will continue to edit other wikipedia sites so if we want him to contribute to those constructively is it not better that he leaves here with a reasonably positive outlook towards at least some other editors, rather than seething with rage at the "injustice" of it all?
I will admit that I did not know about the 6 month guideline, so I should have said "6 months" instead of "a few weeks", but I fail to see how you could object to any of the other advice, especially as I was very careful to point out that they were merely my suggestions and that they wouldn't guarantee anything as someone else would make the decision. I'd also point out that the 1RR was suggested by another editor, and the admin who blocked Mabelina was the one who suggested I offer that advice to him.
Oh, and exactly how many thousand edits should someone make before they are able to offer advice to another user? 5? 10? 50?
Frinton100 (talk) 12:42, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
Sanders
You're not seriously suggesting the article says he might even possibly be atheist, are you? That would be a remarkable failure of reading comprehension. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:40, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
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RfC on embedded hardcore pornographic movie in A Free Ride
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I've been naughty
And threatened with an EW block on ANI. If you notify the anon, in all fairness, you probably should notify me. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 10:24, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
- Jim1138, I've added an update to the ANI thread you started. If the problems continue, the article will need further protection, in which case you can apply at WP:RFPP or let me know and I will do so. Softlavender (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
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can you fix these ref-code warnings?
Since you can't stand to see them. :-) Alt-right is a mess in many ways, but perhaps you could help with the warnings. I'm not sure if they are caused by an editor there who seems to have some competence problems on the non-technical side, but as he does most of the editing of the article probably. Doug Weller talk 15:59, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Looks fine now, so I'm guessing someone else fixed them. Softlavender (talk) 03:00, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking. Doug Weller talk 15:25, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
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Gave you credit at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carl Starling
Gave you credit at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carl Starling for your work on Hank Bergman and Sherman Bergman AfDs. Thanks again. X4n6 (talk) 05:35, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Ah, I see, I'll look into that. It's mostly FranciscoFWPerez, logged in and logged out (the two IPs geolocate to Miami), rather than more registered socks. But at a glance it looks like the same lack of notability. Thanks for the heads up; I'll check the article in a few. Softlavender (talk) 05:44, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- I already checked them, X4n6, hence my latest note at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carl Starling. I'm not actually familiar with boxing/martial-arts notability guidelines, though. Perhaps you should notify a Wikiproject that covers that. Softlavender (talk) 07:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- At least seven of the existing ones, excluding the current noms, fail either WP:NBOX or WP:NKICK, just as clearly. I could always do a multiple nom, per WP:BUNDLE and notify the appropriate projects. X4n6 (talk) 07:51, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- X4n6, please don't do a bundled nomination. That's what messed up the first Hank Bergman AfD that lasted more than half a day. Always do single nominations. Viewers need to investigate each subject for notability, one at a time. Softlavender (talk) 07:55, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Understood. Would have waited for the current noms to close anyway, for that very reason. But your point is well taken. Will likely still wait before the next one, for the same reason. Thanks. X4n6 (talk) 07:59, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- OK. I'm not sure there's actually any reason to wait, but the timing is up to you. You can use Twinkle if you want nominations to be faster (I don't use Twinkle and it takes me forever to do an AfD lol). In any case, I'll put all those articles on my Watch list, so no reason to "canvass" me or alert me. Softlavender (talk) 08:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- The only reason to wait is because I don't want to be accused of having an "agenda," or piling on, as happened in the 1st Sherman Bergman nom. Don't want to become the issue. Especially when the only agenda comes from this rather longstanding and rather prolific beehive of sock activity that you've uncovered. The fact that it survived this long before it was uncovered is surprising. Again, kudos to you! Btw, I've never Twinkled either and this process is time-consuming. But I'm certainly getting lots of practice lately thanks to this. X4n6 (talk) 08:16, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Well at this point we're only dealing with that one account, because the other accounts stopped editing. So there'll be no actual association with socking on these particular articles, unless the article histories reveal new related accounts. The main problem is that this user created a lot of articles on non-notable martial artists, which is why many of them have already been deleted, and many of the remaining ones lack notability as well. The user may have learned their lesson about notability, since they haven't created any new articles in 2.5 years (at least not from this account), but that doesn't mean the other non-notable articles should stay. Softlavender (talk) 08:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- I'm still looking at a couple registered accts that have edited regularly on the Bergman pages as well as other boxing and MMA pages of questionable notability. They're not SPAs, but maybe that just means folks have learned and adapted after having so many articles deleted. In the interim, I'll wait for the disposition of the open noms and likely follow with the rest then. Will watch the pages, but don't really want to focus singularly on just this. X4n6 (talk) 08:36, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Well at this point we're only dealing with that one account, because the other accounts stopped editing. So there'll be no actual association with socking on these particular articles, unless the article histories reveal new related accounts. The main problem is that this user created a lot of articles on non-notable martial artists, which is why many of them have already been deleted, and many of the remaining ones lack notability as well. The user may have learned their lesson about notability, since they haven't created any new articles in 2.5 years (at least not from this account), but that doesn't mean the other non-notable articles should stay. Softlavender (talk) 08:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- The only reason to wait is because I don't want to be accused of having an "agenda," or piling on, as happened in the 1st Sherman Bergman nom. Don't want to become the issue. Especially when the only agenda comes from this rather longstanding and rather prolific beehive of sock activity that you've uncovered. The fact that it survived this long before it was uncovered is surprising. Again, kudos to you! Btw, I've never Twinkled either and this process is time-consuming. But I'm certainly getting lots of practice lately thanks to this. X4n6 (talk) 08:16, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- OK. I'm not sure there's actually any reason to wait, but the timing is up to you. You can use Twinkle if you want nominations to be faster (I don't use Twinkle and it takes me forever to do an AfD lol). In any case, I'll put all those articles on my Watch list, so no reason to "canvass" me or alert me. Softlavender (talk) 08:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Understood. Would have waited for the current noms to close anyway, for that very reason. But your point is well taken. Will likely still wait before the next one, for the same reason. Thanks. X4n6 (talk) 07:59, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- X4n6, please don't do a bundled nomination. That's what messed up the first Hank Bergman AfD that lasted more than half a day. Always do single nominations. Viewers need to investigate each subject for notability, one at a time. Softlavender (talk) 07:55, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- At least seven of the existing ones, excluding the current noms, fail either WP:NBOX or WP:NKICK, just as clearly. I could always do a multiple nom, per WP:BUNDLE and notify the appropriate projects. X4n6 (talk) 07:51, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- I already checked them, X4n6, hence my latest note at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carl Starling. I'm not actually familiar with boxing/martial-arts notability guidelines, though. Perhaps you should notify a Wikiproject that covers that. Softlavender (talk) 07:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
I found two more apparently non-notable articles created by the Bergman socks: Carlos Andino, and Skip Hall (MMA). Maybe I should start using Twinkle myself. :-) Softlavender (talk) 08:49, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Oh geez... it's like a flea infestation! But wait, are you saying that you don't think living in Brazil and working as a bouncer in a nightclub, or as an IBM sales manager, confers notability as MMA fighters?!! Some people and their highfalutin' standards!! X4n6 (talk) 09:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Well, Sherman Bergman once knocked out Carlos Andino, so that automatically makes him notable. Softlavender (talk) 09:08, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Another article linked from the Sherman Bergman article that fails WP:NBOX: Rodney Bobick. OK, I have to stop this now. -- Softlavender (talk) 09:25, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- Every time one of the socks posts on a talk page or AfD, they type four tildes and then type their username again flush with that (no space). The only ones who have posted on TPs or similar are the four most recent accounts: FranciscoFWPerez, Legwarmers1980, DavidToma, and PeterHeughan (who accidentally failed to use the Shift key). By the way, Binksternet may be interested in this little confirming detail. Softlavender (talk) 10:53, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- This is a note to self: The Bobby Halpern article was just wholesale copy-pasted from [9] with no attribution [10]. It was bot-tagged for copyvio, but someone unilaterally removed the tag 16 days later without any real authority and that was that [11]. -- Softlavender (talk) 14:01, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- FYI, since our discussion, Carlos Andino is at AfD. X4n6 (talk) 10:19, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
- One more, another Bergman soapbox: Cornelious Drane. -- Softlavender (talk) 04:02, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
Note to self: http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Main_Page; and http://boxrec.com. -- Softlavender (talk) 07:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Another article that may need an AfD: Anthony Santasiere. I'm not yet familiar with notability requirements for chess players. Softlavender (talk) 08:34, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
- Found another FranciscoFWPerez
BLP(article) that I nominated at Jim Colombo. Could you please take a look and let me know what you think? Thanks. X4n6 (talk) 08:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi X4n6, I had seen that but was less sure about it because of his U.S. Heavyweight Championship for Karate International Council of Kickboxing [12], which means I think he may have at least started the competition for the world championship (the nature of the fight where he got put out of commission is unclear to me -- was that part of the World Championship rounds or not?), which may mean that he meets the criteria for WP:NKICK. I'm not sure on the finer points of the criteria so I'm just going to sit this one out. I think the rest of the people looking at the AfD will make the right decision. Cheers, Softlavender (talk) 08:45, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- Found another FranciscoFWPerez
- Hi Softlavender. NKICK doesn't mention "KICK" and with good reason. According to its own website: "KICK INTERNATIONAL is dedicated to the administration, promotion, development, and unification of amateur martial arts sports in the United States." So while the article claims this was a professional title, the KICK website indicates just the opposite, pretty clearly stating that it was an amateur title. On the same page - its "History" section - it says (emphasis mine): "KICK INATIONAL[sic] has been established exclusively to develop amateur athletes who aspire for recognition and a future professional career in martial arts." The KICK website, also says this: "In 2006, there was a historic development in the arena of Martial Arts sports. In October the General Assembly of International Sports Federations approved Kickboxing as a world recognized sport under the direction of the World Association of Kickboxing Organizations (WAKO). In November of that same year, KICK INTERNATIONAL was delegated as the recognized National Governing Body in the USA on behalf of WAKO and filed for recognition under United States Olympic Committee." However, only WAKO-PRO is listed under NKICK, while WAKO, the amateur arm of that organization, isn't listed. But two other problems makes all of this effectively moot anyway. 1) Because Colombo won the KICK title and had his last fight, in 1993. Both events occurred 13 years before KICK even had an affiliation with WAKO - per KICK's own website. So at the time, that title wasn't sanctioned by any organization listed under NKICK. Add to which, 2) NKICK denies notability to "Kickboxers that have an amateur background exclusively... unless the person has been the subject examined in detail (more than a single paragraph) in several reliable third-party sources (at least four), excluding local publications." So it's a non-notable amateur title with insufficient coverage. It all adds up, again, to failing NKICK. X4n6 (talk) 10:30, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- You can't go by what that particular current organization ("KICK International") is today, because we are talking about 1993, at which time the Karate International Council of Kickboxing held professional tournaments, e.g. [13], [14], [15], [16]. Plus the wiki article states that Columbo had turned professional by then. On another note, the odd thing is that I'm getting more and more proof that Van Damme is a fraud: [17]. Weird. Softlavender (talk) 11:24, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- One would think that if KICK at one time sanctioned professional matches, it would be mentioned in their own history section on their own website. But it isn't. Moreover, even if we were to ultimately decide that KICK sanctioned professional matches, it's not among the list of organizations mentioned at WP:NKICK. So it still wouldn't matter. As for Van Damme, people have been calling him a fraud for years. Even worse has been said about Steven Seagal. Just google him and "fraud." Happy reading. X4n6 (talk) 12:03, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- Again, you are talking about two different organizations: the earlier "Karate International Council of Kickboxing", and the later "KICK International". It's not a question of whether or not the Karate International Council of Kickboxing sponsored professional tournaments -- we know for a fact they did because the events are listed in the reliable-source publications I linked. In terms of Van Damme vs. Seagal -- two different things. I'm referring to falsified championship claim; Van Damme once claimed that people couldn't find his record(s) because he had a different name back then, but the 1993 Inside Edition investigation I linked to checked both of the names and found nothing; and Van Damme refused comment on that and strong-armed the investigators away. Softlavender (talk) 12:25, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- One would think that if KICK at one time sanctioned professional matches, it would be mentioned in their own history section on their own website. But it isn't. Moreover, even if we were to ultimately decide that KICK sanctioned professional matches, it's not among the list of organizations mentioned at WP:NKICK. So it still wouldn't matter. As for Van Damme, people have been calling him a fraud for years. Even worse has been said about Steven Seagal. Just google him and "fraud." Happy reading. X4n6 (talk) 12:03, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- You can't go by what that particular current organization ("KICK International") is today, because we are talking about 1993, at which time the Karate International Council of Kickboxing held professional tournaments, e.g. [13], [14], [15], [16]. Plus the wiki article states that Columbo had turned professional by then. On another note, the odd thing is that I'm getting more and more proof that Van Damme is a fraud: [17]. Weird. Softlavender (talk) 11:24, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- If you go to Karate International Council of Kickboxing, you will see their website is http://kickinternational.org which redirects to http://teamusakickboxing.org/ which is KICK International. According to its website, KICK International was developed "in 1982 when Koplar Communications and Anheuser Busch developed a syndicated series of events from Las Vegas to New York directed and sanctioned under KICK International by Frank Babcock, Fred Wren, Larry Castor, Ken Norton and Chuck Norris." While, according to the article for "Karate International Council of Kickboxing," which claims as its source, Roy Kurban, (1979) "Kicking Techniques for Competition & Self-Defense. Black Belt Communications" :" "KICK was organized in 1982 by Frank Babcock, Fred Wren, Larry Caster, Bob Wall and Roy Kurban, with martial arts icon Chuck Norris serving as a goodwill ambassador." So I'm not seeing how you're saying they're 2 different organizations. Although it is a headscratcher how a book with supposedly a publication date of 1979, could reference an organization formed in 1982. As for Van Damme & Seagal, one may be lying about his championships, while the other may be lying about his background - because apparently he has never actually competed; so those black belts have been called into question. But back to Colombo, whether it was the old "Karate International Council of Kickboxing" or the new "KICK International", I'm still not convinced either has a legitimate connection to any of the bodies listed under notability and really that's all I'm interested in. X4n6 (talk) 13:04, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not a reliable source. If you want to verify that they are two different organizations, just Google it: [18]. "Karate International Council of Kickboxing" was founded in 1981/1982 and sponsored professional and some amateur tournaments. It later evolved into "KICK International", which is a registered charity that is strictly focused on amateur martial artists. Softlavender (talk) 13:27, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- I've already Googled it. I'm pretty sure you're both right and wrong. You've said they are different organizations, which I do not believe they are. You've also said one evolved from the other, which I believe is more accurate. To prove that, they were both founded the same year by the same people. The source you just updated, "Kicking Techniques for Competition & Self-defense by Roy Kurban," originally published in 1979, (which had its 14th printing in 2003), says: "In 1982, he joined forces with Frank Babcock, Fred Wren, Larry Caster, and Bob Wall to organize the Karate International Council of Kickboxing (KICK). Chuck Norris accepted the role as KICK's goodwill ambassador..." Which is as close to verbatim as possible to the current KICK INTERNATIONAL website under "Kick History." That's good enough for me. While they may be strictly amateur now, it appears they attempted both pro and amateur matches originally. But even if that's true, who they were then, in 1993, when Colombo won a title, still doesn't confer notability on him, per NKICK. Because there's no evidence that, at that time, they had any affiliation with any of the organizations listed. X4n6 (talk) 14:47, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not a reliable source. If you want to verify that they are two different organizations, just Google it: [18]. "Karate International Council of Kickboxing" was founded in 1981/1982 and sponsored professional and some amateur tournaments. It later evolved into "KICK International", which is a registered charity that is strictly focused on amateur martial artists. Softlavender (talk) 13:27, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- If you go to Karate International Council of Kickboxing, you will see their website is http://kickinternational.org which redirects to http://teamusakickboxing.org/ which is KICK International. According to its website, KICK International was developed "in 1982 when Koplar Communications and Anheuser Busch developed a syndicated series of events from Las Vegas to New York directed and sanctioned under KICK International by Frank Babcock, Fred Wren, Larry Castor, Ken Norton and Chuck Norris." While, according to the article for "Karate International Council of Kickboxing," which claims as its source, Roy Kurban, (1979) "Kicking Techniques for Competition & Self-Defense. Black Belt Communications" :" "KICK was organized in 1982 by Frank Babcock, Fred Wren, Larry Caster, Bob Wall and Roy Kurban, with martial arts icon Chuck Norris serving as a goodwill ambassador." So I'm not seeing how you're saying they're 2 different organizations. Although it is a headscratcher how a book with supposedly a publication date of 1979, could reference an organization formed in 1982. As for Van Damme & Seagal, one may be lying about his championships, while the other may be lying about his background - because apparently he has never actually competed; so those black belts have been called into question. But back to Colombo, whether it was the old "Karate International Council of Kickboxing" or the new "KICK International", I'm still not convinced either has a legitimate connection to any of the bodies listed under notability and really that's all I'm interested in. X4n6 (talk) 13:04, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
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Francis Schonken blocked
I believe the block for several days resulted from some machinations by Fountains-of-Paris. Francis was an important editor on multiple articles Please help to undo this block. .Marlindale (talk) 01:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
- Didn't realize that; thanks for the info. FS knows how to request an unblock. If he doesn't request an unblock, he will still be unblocked in a few days. There is no rush on Wikipedia. And Francis also knows how to stop edit-warring and how to discuss on talk. Softlavender (talk) 01:13, 25 March 2016 (UTC); edited 03:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Reintroduced, Reintroducing, Reintroduction, and Reintroductions listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Reintroducing, Reintroducing, Reintroduction, and Reintroductions. Since you have had some involvement with the Reintroduced, Reintroducing, Reintroduction, and Reintroductions redirects (i.e. Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 February 5#Re-introductory), you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. —Godsy(TALKCONT) 03:52, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
- Godsy, please don't post canvassing notices on my talk page in the future. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 04:20, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reinforcing: Reintroducing, Reintroducing (Reintroducing reiterated?), Reintroduction, and Reintroductions redirects really require rehash? Ridiculous! EEng 04:42, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
- Godsy, please don't post canvassing notices on my talk page in the future. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 04:20, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
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11:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)Thanks
Thanks for stepping up at my talk page. I know I've acted like a prick to you before. I know myself well enough not to promise I won't again, but at least I can promise I'll never be a prick for the sake of being a prick. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- No worries, CT. I (try to) call 'em as I see 'em, no matter what past interactions I have had with folks. (That's not to say I'm not human, but WP is so big that generally speaking I interact with too many editors to opine based on "friendship" rather than my actual analysis.) Thanks for the food! Softlavender (talk) 11:51, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Your thoughts
Seeing as how you did argue for more stringent sanctions on this user when I took him to ANI, (though he subsequently stopped his disruption) should I have handled this by anything other than ignoring and allowing him the WP:LAST? [19] he's back to editing in a useful way and hasn't caused trouble for a few days. My goal is to try and not let myself be baited so much (I do not always succeed), but I do wrestle with the line between immaturity and trolldom. Thoughts? Montanabw(talk) 23:47, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Montanabw, I've been off-wiki. I always advise ignoring PAs (seriously, I never respond to them). If he edits disruptively, then that's another thing. Softlavender (talk) 04:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
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Disappointed in Softlavender
Hi Softlavender, I have seen your background (female, 1955, Duke University) and just wanted to let you know how disappointed I am in your comment that "it does not matter" whether someone is lying or not. Ends justify means? See below. If seasoned academics like you have such an attitude, then what hope is there for the rest of the world?
"Hi Softlavendar. You are side-stepping my question: where is the alleged agreement/discussion on the Talk:Census of Quirinius page? Perhaps I am too stupid to find it, but I am concerned that GBRV is making it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.102.54 (talk) 06:59, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
- At this point it doesn't matter. You were edit warring against legitimate, valid, and easily understood edits by an experienced editor which cleaned up an overlong section. Contrary to your repeated claims, nothing was vandalized or deleted -- it has merely been better organized. If you object to the current organization, take that up on the article's talk page, by starting a thread on it. Remember to sign your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Softlavender (talk) 07:49, 31 March 2016 (UTC)"
Important message
- Aw, North America, I wanted a "You've been blocked" message! I feel left out! Softlavender (talk) 00:22, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
I invite you to ongoing RfC discussion. --George Ho (talk) 17:18, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
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Bangalore IP
Still unwilling to follow BRD and discuss much in talk. Just reverts w/ an occasional ES. Should I request PP on both articles? Psychological resilience (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Social work (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Thanks Jim1138 (talk) 10:23, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- I'll look into it. Having computer problems and this thing I'm on is really really slow. Softlavender (talk) 11:05, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Jim1138, ANI filed. Softlavender (talk) 12:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for filling the ANI. I may not be understanding WhoIs correctly, but some show Bangalore and others New Delhi. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 19:04, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Jim1138: For future reference: Don't check WHOIS, check Geolocate. Softlavender (talk) 04:17, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Arbcom
Greetings. The wikicology case is something that ought to go to Arbcom in my view, because of the principles involved, in particular whether it is OK to falsify credentials, and if not, whether editors should be accountable for any credentials they claim. But this is generally what Arbcom don't do, since they are a dispute resolution body. This requires naming the parties who are in dispute, and saying what the dispute or disagreement actually is. In this case it's not clear. In the Wifione case, the editor denied all allegations and thus the dispute was about whether he or she was in fact employed by a degree mill. Note also that Arbcom typically doesn't do forensic investigations. That is up to community, who present their evidence for the 'judges' to make a decision.
So the key question is: who are the persons in dispute, and what are the disputed questions? I am thinking about it. Also @SlimVirgin: Peter Damian (talk) 10:43, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- I don't think there necessarily need to be any other "involved parties", because the case is solely about him. The case is similar to Essjay, Wifione, Neelix. See Wikipedia:Arbitration#Scope_of_arbitration. And the problematical behaviors go way way beyond merely falsifying credentials. What we have is massive abuse of Wikipedia and WMF on many many levels, and therefore this is something that ArbCom should deal with and investigate, since some of the evidence is only viewable by admins, and since as you say evidence will need to be provided, and ANI does not have the context to deal with all of the issues and all of the evidence. If there absolutely must be a second party listed, as with other single-issue (single user) cases, the filing party can be listed as the other party. Could also mention other people from the ANI thread who were strongly in favor of an ArbCom investigation and/or a site ban/indef block. Softlavender (talk) 11:03, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- OK, but as a straw man, what do you think the massive abuse of Wikipedia and WMF actually was? (Clearly I am not disagreeing, but it helps to set these out carefully, as an aid to making the filing itself). Thanks for all your work on this, by the way. Peter Damian (talk) 11:09, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Already spelled out in the ANI thread. It's a long thread. Softlavender (talk)
- Note also that the Neelix case was closed after Neelix resigned. You mention Wifione (remember I was the one who effectively got that one to Arbcom), but s/he refused to concede anything. That's what made it a dispute Peter Damian (talk) 11:13, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Socking
- Misrepresenting sources
- Misrepresenting professional/academic standing
- COI editing
- Is that it?
- This is something the community might be able resolve without ArbCom (but we'd need to temporarily restore the deleted autobiography to a sub-page, so non-admins can understand that aspect). It might have to go to ArbCom if the community can't agree on the seriousness of these breaches and so can't agree on appropriate sanctions. I do agree it would be nice to have ArbCom opine on the seriousness of #3. And they're likely to come up with a more nuanced response than the crowd at ANI usually does. Newyorkbrad, any thoughts on where we should go from here? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:06, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- It's lots more than you've listed. I can spell it all out to you in an email if you want. I don't feel like repeating the contents of that massive ANI thread on my talk page. Softlavender (talk) 13:20, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- I've read the ANI thread. Don't most of the transgressions fall under those headings? (Of course, the instances and ramifications of those need to be enumerated.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 15:16, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- It's lots more than you've listed. I can spell it all out to you in an email if you want. I don't feel like repeating the contents of that massive ANI thread on my talk page. Softlavender (talk) 13:20, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Peter has opened a thread at Jimbo talk: User talk:Jimbo Wales#Faking credentials. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 16:14, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- [FBDB]
Don't most of the transgressions fall under those headings?
I don't think it's fair to pigeonhole members of the trans community like that. EEng 22:15, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- Andreas has posted Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Wikicology. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 06:05, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
- Hello, Peter Damian and Anthonyhcole. I've been away for a few days; and I'm also having major computer problems and I'm a month behind on a class I'm taking. Thank you for alerting me to the ArbCom request. It looks like it's trending to acceptance. Due to the craziness I just mentioned, I don't think I can start gathering/compiling detailed evidence until several days from now. However I'll try to add a statement of support for acceptance of the case. And no, the items/categories mentioned by Anthony do not cover all of the disturbing issues involved. (Also, pardon my rather curt response above, I actually thought that was Peter making the post I last responded to and therefore I thought it was odd he didn't see all of the other issues involved.) Anyway, Cheers all. Softlavender (talk) 02:52, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
A new issue
Pinging Peter Damian, Anthonyhcole, Jytdog, Pldx1, NinjaRobotPirate, Choess, Fram, Takeaway, Smartse: You all discovered fake/unsubstantiating references in articles that Wikicology created. I've discovered a new very worrying issue even beyond that: Not only did he add fake references to his own articles, he added numerous non-substantiating references to random existing articles (usually previously tagged "refimprove" or "unreferenced") that he did not even create. He's done this as late as a month ago: [20]. I've only had time and room to note 6 or 7 articles he did this on, on 18-19 August 2014, on my now overlong Evidence draft: [21], but thus far every in article he added references to that I checked, his added references failed to substantiate, even via Wayback. If any of you are going to file Evidence at the ArbCom case (Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology/Evidence), would you mind checking his other random reference additions to other articles? The best way to find is to go through his contributions (from the earliest, latest, or middle), and Control+F ref .... The newly extended deadline for Evidence is Monday 25 April, which I presume means end of day 25 April UTC. Thanks all who can help. Softlavender (talk) 12:10, 22 April 2016 (UTC) Forgot to add Sam Walton and Jayen466 to that list. Softlavender (talk) 13:12, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
- Dear User:Softlavender. Erasing seems simpler... and safer ! Best regards. Pldx1 (talk) 15:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
- Pldx1: I'm not asking for help on my evidence. I'm just asking, in case you will be filing evidence, if you want to check some of the other random articles he's added "citations" to. Softlavender (talk) 18:07, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
PS I looked at your evidence page. Do you have any objection if I put some signposting sections in to make it easier to follow? You are the first person to spot some of the 'bitey' stuff. Peter Damian (talk) 17:13, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
- Peter Damian: I'm not ready to organize it yet; I've not even finished perusing his first three months of editing. I'll organize, trim, and post headers when I get to a good overall viewpoint of his entire editing history. Also, "bitey" stuff is well covered in the 2014 ANI and the RfA -- I hope that the two ANIs and the RfA can be put, wholesale, into evidence, because they speak volumes and there's no way I can summarize all of the problems. I seem to be the only person really giving an overall picture for Evidence, even though 23 out of 33 people !voted for a ban/indef in the last ANI, and a ban was also suggested in the 2014 ANI. (BTW, I've never participated in an ANI before, except for offering statements at a few RFAR's, so this is all new to me.) -- Softlavender (talk) 18:07, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
- ok just offering help. Lots of good stuff there. Best wishes Peter Damian (talk) 18:09, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
NOTE to everyone: Wordcount for everyone has also been increased to 1000 words across the board, in filing Evidence. Softlavender (talk) 18:07, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
- It's disappointing that Wikicology's disruption would extend to random articles. I don't know if I want to get involved in the arbitration case, but, if I do, I'll take a look at his edits outside of the articles he created, too. We might need a dedicated page to coordinate the cleanup of his edits. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:42, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not going to involve myself with this Arbcom case as it involves two people that make WP feel like a dirty place to me. I did what I could during the first ANI of Sep 2014, to have this problematic editor stopped (or at least closely monitored) but nothing happened back then. I suspect that Wikicology received personal messages from an admin or admins back then somewhere halfway through the original ANI, that he wouldn't be banned. I base this suspicion on the fact that at a certain moment, WC went from being extremely apologetic to becoming snarky again: "If you think I will be blocked or ban for this, by an administrator, it won't happen.". Just wondering who the admin or admins were? And where are they now that the shit that they created hit the fan? As for WC's bid for adminship: why would the nominator, User:Davidcannon (who's apparently been off-wiki for a while and only resurfaced with an edit today), have introduced WC as a lecturer? DavidCannon apparently didn't know WC at all before "This user approached me with a nomination request" so I can only conclude that WC himself wrote that he was a lecturer in his request to DavidCannon. And WC reaffirmed the claim to be a lecturer again later in the discussion concerning his adminship bid. But after the second ANI, WC suddenly states "there is no place I claim to be a University lecturer". Hopefully DavidCannon can shed some light on WC's claim to be a lecturer during his adminship bid. - Takeaway (talk) 10:49, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
- You are right. I didn't know of the existence of Wikicology before he approached me, asking for a nomination. I took his claims to academic credentials (which I seem to remember reading on his user page, though my memory is foggy now) face value — perhaps you could accuse me of being too trusting, and I probably was in this case. The long and the short of it is that I had just a brief look at some of his edits, saw nothing to raise my eyebrows, and didn't really look before I leapt. And by the way, whoever the admin was that told WC he wouldn't be banned, it wasn't me. I knew nothing about any of these controversies.
David Cannon (talk) 11:59, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Wikicology arbitration case opened
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 22, 2016, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- The message was sent using the case's MassMessage list. Unless you are a party, you may remove your name from the list to stop receiving notifications regarding the case.
ANI
Thanks for your very clear feedback to Gongwool there. I trust your analysis, even when it comes to me, and you have chastised me there as well. It is good to have clear thinkers who aren't driven by wikipolitics at ANI. So thanks. Jytdog (talk) 09:59, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- No worries, Jytdog. Thanks for the note. Softlavender (talk) 10:17, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- By the way Jytdog my last post there was an edit conflict and happened at the exact same time as your close (sometimes that happens on ANI -- two simultaneous posts on the same thread get posted). I didn't really know what to do -- whether to self-revert (maybe things were indeed resolved) or just leave it. Kind of a puzzler when that happens. Your close was gracious, so I hope I didn't escalate what was already calming down. If you want me to self-revert and return to your close, I will. Softlavender (talk) 10:24, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- Don't know. It was a good enough place for me and reaching a good enough place in this situation was ... good enough. Gongwool actually is a newbie and I have some hopes for them. I don't actually want to stomp on newbies. :) I do want the community to kick their ass a bit when they forget they are new and do crazy things like Gongwool did. So... your call! Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 10:30, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- I reverted. Better to have good feelings. People like to blow off steam when they are called to the carpet, so I'll chalk it up to that. Softlavender (talk) 10:41, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- Insert smiley face here. -Roxy the dog™ woof 10:51, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- Happy to oblige: . EEng 14:52, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- EEng you are one step away from being banned from my talk page. Softlavender (talk) 03:05, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Happy to oblige: . EEng 14:52, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- Insert smiley face here. -Roxy the dog™ woof 10:51, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- I reverted. Better to have good feelings. People like to blow off steam when they are called to the carpet, so I'll chalk it up to that. Softlavender (talk) 10:41, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
- Don't know. It was a good enough place for me and reaching a good enough place in this situation was ... good enough. Gongwool actually is a newbie and I have some hopes for them. I don't actually want to stomp on newbies. :) I do want the community to kick their ass a bit when they forget they are new and do crazy things like Gongwool did. So... your call! Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 10:30, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
IP-hopper
Rather strange edits on User_talk:Timothyjosephwood#Social_Work & Career talk. First Kerala IP gets blocked, then second Kerala IP makes first edit to Timothyjosephwood's talk page and suggests first is a rogue? Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 04:40, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
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Reversion of edit
Hi, I see you reverted my edit to the article on Prince (musician) regarding the 911 call. You stated in your summary that there was "no need" for quotes from the 911 call. I am not sure I understand your reasoning. I made the edit so that readers could see highlights (not all) of exactly what was said: so that they could understand the hesitation of the caller to report the incident in its real terms, as well as his confusion about how to tell the 911 operator where he was. I don't know of any extant Wikipedia policy that discourages the use of quotations from 911 calls. Do you? And can I ask why you feel the article is better without this information? Thanks! KDS4444Talk 02:15, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
- Hi KDS4444: In brief, it's trivial, unnecessary, unencyclopedic, and less easy to comprehend. There was nothing unusual about the call itself and the wording that was already in the article covered it accurately. If you still feel that your preferred version should be used, per WP:BRD start a thread on the article's talkpage, which is where these discussions should occur -- not user talk pages. Cheers, Softlavender (talk) 02:30, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
- And by the way, "the hesitation of the caller to report the incident in its real terms" and "his confusion about how to tell the 911 operator where he was" is all your own mind-reading. There's nothing intrinsically correct about those interpretations. Softlavender (talk) 02:40, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
- You may be right about the venue for proposing such a change, but I did not want to revert your reversion and as you were the editor who reverted I would have thought it rude not to contact you first. And while I grant you that the interpretations I gave above are just that— interpretations— I did no such interpretation in the actual article: I left it to the reader to interpret the phone call... which seemed the fair and accurate thing to do, no? KDS4444Talk 06:54, 23 April 2016 (UTC)