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The [[WP:Feedback request service|feedback request service]] is asking for participation in [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities#rfc_B390613|this request for comment on '''Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities''']]. <!-- Template:FRS message --> <!-- FRS id 40565 --> [[User:Legobot|Legobot]] ([[User talk:Legobot|talk]]) 04:24, 11 February 2016 (UTC) |
The [[WP:Feedback request service|feedback request service]] is asking for participation in [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities#rfc_B390613|this request for comment on '''Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities''']]. <!-- Template:FRS message --> <!-- FRS id 40565 --> [[User:Legobot|Legobot]] ([[User talk:Legobot|talk]]) 04:24, 11 February 2016 (UTC) |
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== TTFN (Ta ta for now) == |
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{{wikibreak|message=Maybe never coming back. I'm fed up with this place and the toxic people who fail to act like human beings respectful of each other, and who make editing which could be joyful a rather joyless and painful task... and who hound and dog other users with ideological and axe-grinding spiteful motivations, and who fail to engage in good dialogue with honesty but rather Wikilawyer and spew bullshit all around while trying to knock other people out, making the place a battleground, and destroying the potential good energy... so why should i give my life force and energy to such failed toxic project overrun by bullies and jerks who don't have the least bit of human decency? So i may be gone forever, or until the project changed to gain a critical mass of integrity, but i'm done wasting my time being gamed and manipulated by people with bad motives and lack of integrity.}} |
Revision as of 14:37, 13 February 2016
New Year House Cleaning
Nice and clean here. Much easier to deal with. Sometimes you gotta clean house. SageRad (talk) 15:34, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Rules for feedback/critcism
Some things I've snapped up during my unwilling meandering through management - not that I always manage to follow them:
- Start with positive feedback
- Phrase negative feedback constructively
- Avoid negative feedback and criticism of behaviour in public venues and in front of audiences - people will just dig in
...just in case it applies sometimes ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:54, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. Seems helpful. I generally have tried to do this when i can manage the awareness. Regarding the last one, nearly everywhere on Wikipedia is public, and in a sense public discourse is an important aspect of this place. Cheers and thank you. SageRad (talk) 12:06, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Harassment policy
Hi Sage, I just re-read WP:Harassment and I thought you might be interested in the following. It states The prohibition against harassment applies equally to all Wikipedians. It is as unacceptable to harass a user with a history of inept or disruptive behavior as it is to harass any other user. Wikipedia encourages a civil community: people make mistakes, but they are encouraged to learn from them and change their ways. Harassment is contrary to this spirit and damaging to the work of building an encyclopedia. All the best.DrChrissy (talk) 17:52, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
- YES, I know is the policy, but the actuality is that most people here don't give a rats ass about civility our about policy and bullies run rampant. Thankfully a few editors here and there have the integrity to stand up to bullying and harassment and abuse. I will continue to do so even though it garners me abuse and harassment as a result. Someone has to stand up to it. Thank you for doing so, DrChrissy. SageRad (talk) 21:26, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
- Sage, I just want to point out that you are using and misusing the word "bully" a lot. I can't help notice that editors who do this often find themselves indefinitely blocked. It's a pattern I've noticed over time. Instead of calling people names and complaining all the time, be the change you want to see starting with your own behavior. Have you ever noticed how a genuine smile is infectious and can brighten up an entire room? Try to wiki-smile instead of wiki-complaining all the time and see what happens. Viriditas (talk) 06:27, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Got a minute?
Hey Sage, I hope cleaning up here has helped clear up your headspace as well. Sorry to keep pestering you, but are you still interested in helping me work on Efficient energy use? I keep asking because I have a hard time finding other editors who are even willing to look at my work in the first place. Either way, I do hope your cleaning house here is an indication that you're gonna stick around.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 22:48, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:List of oldest living people
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:List of oldest living people. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
FYI
You have been reported at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement for violation of your topic ban from the Genetically Modified Organism Arbcom case. Edward321 (talk) 01:46, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- Edward321, i opened up Wikipedia to do some article improvement, and then i have to waste my time on this? What a load of crap. What a pain the arse. No thank you. This is more of the same McCarthyism dynamic, in fact it takes it to a more McCarthyist level than it was at before. "Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?"
- Like i wrote there:
This is absolutely ridiculous. I'm observing the topic ban to a ridiculous degree. I have not edited anything about GMOs or agrochemicals at all since the topic ban. Period. I'm not stupid. I know that violating my topic ban would be suicide. Someone obviously spent a lot of time trying to compile a case. Looks like enemies have it out for me. I'm editing with integrity and not touching the areas from which i am topic banned. I don't have time to waste on this and i'm not even going to grace this case with any point-by-point rebuttal. It's clear this is a witch hunt trying to find an excuse to get me blocked. SageRad (talk) 10:54, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
But, just to be safe, none of the diffs provided show me discussing GMOs or agrochemicals at all -- because i have not. And when Kingofaces writes:
SageRad has also been commenting directly at ANI on a discussion on GMOs
he's actually speaking of a conversation that begins with:
Editor KingOfAces casts aspersions Kingofaces43 is casting very serious aspersions, and here - where he essential frames everybody participating in a OR noticeboard discussion as a climate change denier, among his common theme as fringe.
In other words -- it's not "a discussion on GMOs" -- it's a discussion on meta-level aspects of Wikipedia culture, mainly about the use of "fringe" as an aspersion, and how we deal with name-calling, and all that. It is not a discussion on GMOs, and his trying to frame it as such is a lie.
And once again, what Kingofaces calls:
They also responded directly to me at WP:FTN when I asked for more eyes on this GMO discussion
links actually to this diff which has nothing to do with GMOs. Again, a lie.
And most of his issue seems to be that i have opinions and speak against a McCarthyism sort of dynamic that i see going on. Ironically, this very case here is another such incident within that dynamic. I should not have to be wasting my time on this.
As for DuPont -- my edits on that company (and Dow who have merged with them, hence [1]) have been about the chemical PFOA (like this edit [2]) which is not an agrochemical. It's a Teflon additive that did pollute water in West Virginia and in the Ohio River. That's not at all under my topic ban. And i also edited about Styrofoam [3] to correct a trade name. Styrofoam is made by Dow but Thermacol is made by another company. I also made the same change at Polystyrene to correct that trade name -- again, another chemical also made by Dow (my edit).
Seriously, my edit to Charles Eisenstein [4] ??????? This is out of control. So he's a wonderful thinker, author of Sacred Economics and a social change agent in the world. He probably wrote something about GMOs sometime, but i've never read it, and it's not his main thing, not what he's known for. You're really stretching. This is looking like McCarthyism, sort of proving my point, the actual point for which this case appears to have been brought against me.
So, even though i said i wouldn't, i just went through all the diffs provided, and as i know, they do not show me editing anything at all about GMOs or agrochemicals. I know this because my conscience is clear. I have not edited anything about GMOs or agrochemicals at all since the topic ban. I ask for this case to be summarily dropped, as it's onerous and seems to be intended to "get me" for being outspoken on cultural issues within Wikipedia. Good day. SageRad (talk) 11:24, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Yo! I'm being witch-hunted. Check it out. ^^^^^^
Word. I guess i spoke too much of what's real here on Wikipedia and too many people are pissed off at me and so want to use a weasel argument to say that i violated the topic ban that was wrong to begin with, but which i absolutely did not violate at all.
I'm topic banned from editing about GMOs and agrochemicals -- and i have not. And there has been a clarification that states that i can make basic non-related edits about companies that may also produce such things, which would be under discretionary sanctions. And yet they're trying to make it out as if i've broken my topic ban so they have an excuse to block me for whatever length of time -- it's a McCarthyist thing. Really it is.
Here's the case they're making against me. It's so empty it's sad and yet they're gonna perhaps block me because of it. It's another travesty and sham. This place has no integrity. Wonder if it ever did. I bet back around the beginning there was probably some integrity here but since i've been editing i ain't seen it.
SageRad (talk) 17:05, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- Sage - have a look at this statement by an arbitrator no less, and the support of other arbs.[5]DrChrissy (talk) 17:16, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
And... shit gets worse and worse... and one editor calls anyone who writes a word in my defense "the peanut gallery" and everyone thinks that's okay -- and meanwhile there's conservative people changing other people's comments on the essay that some people say "should die".... there's such bullshit here on Wikipedia -- how can anyone get any editing done. I'm just wanting to improve articles like ExxonMobil climate change controversy and Experimental evolution and Zika virus and Buffalo hunting and answer Legobot calls like Talk:Johann Sebastian Bach which i've done, and much more... the real work of Wikipedia ... and yet i'm in this stupid drama with people holding a knife to my throat and all these drama-makers trying to find ways to get me banned from Wikipedia -- because i speak honestly and see much. SageRad (talk) 11:39, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
- I apologise for my accidental revert. -Roxy the dog™ woof 13:33, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
It's time for everyone to listen to some Bach and take a chill pill. SageRad (talk) 11:42, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
- I did agree with some of what the filer was saying, but a lot of those diffs were relatively innocuous given what you actually wrote and where. Some of the other edits were problematic, but you were given specific permission to make non-GMO-related edits to company articles, so those should have been expressly excluded from consideration.
- That being said, as someone else who was said to have missed the point of an AE filing, what I've guessed is going on is that the purpose of the topic ban was not just to keep you out of the fight (their words) but to compel you to edit other parts of Wikipedia in the hope that you'd decide to stay away permanently. (Why they can't just come out and say this remains unknown to me. Research pending.) Your edits, even the non-violation edits, proved that you're still paying attention to these pages and this issue. If you're planning to appeal the ban, that might work against you. I'm developing a draft for an AE procedure FAQ, so if you as someone who ran into misunderstandings at AE want to comment or discuss your experience, that would be valuable. Whatever else is right and wrong about the procedure, it helps if everyone knows what is expected of them going in. Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:52, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:Johann Sebastian Bach
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Johann Sebastian Bach. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Talk:List of the oldest living state leaders
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:List of the oldest living state leaders. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Note
In dif you confessed to editing in a WP:POINTy way. You should not make POINTy edits. Jytdog (talk) 17:59, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- Jytdog that's a talk page. That's completely different from the meaning of WP:POINT. You'll note that all the examples on that page are about article mainspace editing. Talk page discussions are different. Thanks for looking out but i think my dialogue there was fine and was made with good intent and fair manners. In talk page discussions, showing a parity of a number of sources can be understood as a reasonable mode of dialogue. SageRad (talk) 18:04, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- I did once make a pointy edit to an article back in last April or so... and i apologized for it and haven't done such a thing since. SageRad (talk) 18:05, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- I don't know where you got the idea from, but let me clarify that the page is called Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point not Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia articles to illustrate a point. It applies to all of Wikipedia. HighInBC 18:21, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- HighInBC are you accusing me of disrupting Wikipedia by posting on a talk page a comment in which i showed that i can also list many sources to show that an alternate point of view exists? Let's be very clear. Are you accusing me of being disruptive in this dif or in the comment on a talk page to which it refers? If so then please state it explicitly, otherwise please retract or otherwise rephrase your above comment so that i don't think you're saying that. If you think i was actually being disruptive then please explain how? We talk on talk pages to arrive at understandings about articles and this is one way in which people speak. Are you accusing me of being disruptive there? SageRad (talk) 18:26, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
I accused you of nothing. I corrected your assertion that WP:POINT only applies to articles. I never said you were being disruptive, never even checked. HighInBC 20:32, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, I appreciate it. Thanks for the clarification. I read WP:POINT to mainly speak to making edits to articles that would not normally be made, for the purpose of making a point, to the detriment of Wikipedia. I don't believe i did that here, so i feel ok in my conscience. I read in the guidelined:
However, just because someone is making a point does not mean that they are disrupting Wikipedia to illustrate that point. As a rule, editors engaging in "POINTy" behavior are making edits with which they do not actually agree, for the deliberate purpose of drawing attention and provoking opposition in the hopes of making other editors see their "point".
- All i did was to post a talk page comment in which i linked each of several words in a row to articles that spoke to my point to show that there are such sources, in response to another editor who did the same to try to show that sources lean the other direction. SageRad (talk) 21:31, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities
The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 11 February 2016 (UTC)