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:We can try that but if it leads to endless reverses and discussions about every single entry then we should go for the higher level RfC. I don’t mind making the request. My suggestion is to check [https://www.bjjheroes.com/a-z-bjj-fighters-list Bjjheroes list] to assess notability of BJJ practitioners and coaches (they don't profile MMA not even [[Khabib Nurmagomedov|Khabib]], [[Conor McGregor|McGregor,]] [[Nate Diaz]]..etc) [[Submission wrestling|Submission grappling]] is considered No-Gi so those athletes are also included (unless they come from non BJJ background such as [[Luta Livre|luta livre]], [[wrestling]], [[Judo]], [[Sambo (martial art)|Sambo]]..etc.) and of course all the members of the [[Gracie family]]. Notable BJJ athletes who, concurrently or subsequently to their BJJ career, have competed in MMA should be added to the category [[:Category:Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioners who have competed in MMA|Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioners who have competed in MMA]], this will provide a quick overview of all the fighters who have the rank in their infobox. These are just my suggestions and of course totally open to discussion here (sorry Nswix) or moved/copied onto a WPTP. Best [[User:Lewolka|Lewolka]] ([[User talk:Lewolka|talk]]) 13:31, 22 February 2023 (UTC) edited [[User:Lewolka|Lewolka]] ([[User talk:Lewolka|talk]]) 15:06, 22 February 2023 (UTC) |
:We can try that but if it leads to endless reverses and discussions about every single entry then we should go for the higher level RfC. I don’t mind making the request. My suggestion is to check [https://www.bjjheroes.com/a-z-bjj-fighters-list Bjjheroes list] to assess notability of BJJ practitioners and coaches (they don't profile MMA not even [[Khabib Nurmagomedov|Khabib]], [[Conor McGregor|McGregor,]] [[Nate Diaz]]..etc) [[Submission wrestling|Submission grappling]] is considered No-Gi so those athletes are also included (unless they come from non BJJ background such as [[Luta Livre|luta livre]], [[wrestling]], [[Judo]], [[Sambo (martial art)|Sambo]]..etc.) and of course all the members of the [[Gracie family]]. Notable BJJ athletes who, concurrently or subsequently to their BJJ career, have competed in MMA should be added to the category [[:Category:Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioners who have competed in MMA|Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioners who have competed in MMA]], this will provide a quick overview of all the fighters who have the rank in their infobox. These are just my suggestions and of course totally open to discussion here (sorry Nswix) or moved/copied onto a WPTP. Best [[User:Lewolka|Lewolka]] ([[User talk:Lewolka|talk]]) 13:31, 22 February 2023 (UTC) edited [[User:Lewolka|Lewolka]] ([[User talk:Lewolka|talk]]) 15:06, 22 February 2023 (UTC) |
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::That sounds reasonable. Nice one.[[User:NEDOCHAN|NEDOCHAN]] ([[User talk:NEDOCHAN|talk]]) 15:27, 22 February 2023 (UTC) |
Revision as of 15:27, 22 February 2023
The issue is not whether articles are up, but that they are included and from reliable sources. Solipsism 101 (talk) 21:58, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
Editing
Hi, we are Up With People are loading the latest content but is being edited back to old version that is giving incomplete information. Kindly do not edit what is being shared by UWP. Thanks. UWP2022 (talk) 02:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
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Alex Pereira Being a Muslim
"added note about unreliable conversion sources"
Does a video from the man's (Alexsandro Pereira) own mouth sound reliable to you than?
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntDdQGSxa9c&ab_channel=WestDawnMedia"
In this video Alex Pereira is reciting Shahada. Which is required for conversion to Islam. Note the word Alexsandro Pereira repeats are: "Ash-hadu alla ilaha illallah, wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadar-Rasulullah"
This basically means: "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."
Saying Shahada means you're a Muslim. There is no other requirement to be a Muslim other than to say Shahada.
This statement is from wikipeida itself: "A single honest recitation of the Shahada is all that is required for a person to become a Muslim according to most traditional schools" Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahada
So Alexsandro Pereira reciting Shahada means he is a MUSLIM. as per wikipedia. So I would kindly request to reinstate the fact that Alex Pereira is a Muslim 119.73.121.33 (talk) 03:44, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- @119.73.121.33 that's a primary source... Nswix (talk) 03:49, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for recognizing the fact that it's a primary source. So kindly reinstate the fact Pereira is a Muslim in his biography. I would very much appreciate that. 119.73.121.33 (talk) 03:51, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- @119.73.121.33 just find a reliable source. I'm not disputing the fact that he said the Shahada.
- Wikipedia's not about what you know, it's what you can prove, and that proof can't be from anything biased (religious sites) or unreliable (blogs and small publications). Nswix (talk) 03:55, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- "it's what you can prove"
- What's the biggest proof than man own mouth. Pereira is reciting Shahada that is a proof that he converted to Islam.
- It has less to do with "biased (religious sites) or unreliable (blogs and small publications" than man own mouth.
- Again "A single honest recitation of the Shahada is all that is required for a person to become a Muslim according to most traditional schools" as per wikiepda 119.73.121.33 (talk) 03:59, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for recognizing the fact that it's a primary source. So kindly reinstate the fact Pereira is a Muslim in his biography. I would very much appreciate that. 119.73.121.33 (talk) 03:51, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
It's not up to me what is, or isn't a reliable source. Check WP:RSPSS for a list. Nswix (talk) 04:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- It's upto you. You removed it.
- Again what the biggest proof you need when the man himself recites Shahada.
- Besides I well aware of the policy of not including youtube videos. But I did include other articles that are NOT from religious blogs like this one: "https://www.archysport.com/2022/07/ko-israel-adesanya-finds-spiritual-peace-through-islam/"
- This one is a pure sport BLOG. Nothing to do with RELIGION 119.73.121.33 (talk) 04:06, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- @119.73.121.33 Archysport is not a reliable source, by their own admission, see here
- Unfortunately we'll have to wait until someone writes some kind of followup article. Nswix (talk) 04:09, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- Jesus. You yourself recognized that Alex Pereira reciting Shahada is PRIMARY SOURCE.
- Here is another NON-RELGIOUS sport article that recognizes Alex Pereira is a MUSLIM.
- https://shstrendz.com/alex-pereira/
- You got a PRIMARY SOURCE of Alex Pereira reciting the Shahada (A REQUIREMENT FOR CONVERSION TO ISLAM). You got other non-religious website confirming Alex Pereira is a Muslim. What else do you need? Honestly tell me 119.73.121.33 (talk) 04:14, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- If you're not going reinstate that Alex Pereira is a Muslim BASED on the PRIMARY SOURCE and NON-Religious SITES. So can I reinstate fact or not? 119.73.121.33 (talk) 04:22, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- You there? I'm asking for your PERMISSION to reinstate the fact Pereira is Muslim based on PRIMARY SOURCE and Non-Religious site? 119.73.121.33 (talk) 04:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- @119.73.121.33 no, primary sources aren't allowed, either are sources that don't pass WP:RSPSS. Again, I don't agree with the rules, but they're there for a reason. Nswix (talk) 04:28, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- But wait I also have article from a non-religious site confirming that Alex Pereira is a Muslim? Is this good enough for you.
- https://shstrendz.com/alex-pereira/ 119.73.121.33 (talk) 04:30, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- @119.73.121.33 no. shstrendz is not listed as a reliable source on WP:RSPSS. Nswix (talk) 04:33, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- Another article for you that confirms that Alex Pereira converted to Islam:
- https://mixedarticle.com/did-alex-pereira-convert-to-islam-is-he-muslim
- Besides you guys includes articls from Sports Keeda MMA MANIA and MMA Fighting; these are not LISTED as reliable source either. But that doesn't stop you guys including articles from those site as well. That's quite a hypocritical standard 119.73.121.33 (talk) 04:42, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- Have a courtesy to reply 119.73.121.33 (talk) 04:49, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- @119.73.121.33 no. shstrendz is not listed as a reliable source on WP:RSPSS. Nswix (talk) 04:33, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- If you're not going reinstate that Alex Pereira is a Muslim BASED on the PRIMARY SOURCE and NON-Religious SITES. So can I reinstate fact or not? 119.73.121.33 (talk) 04:22, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi IP editor 119.73.121.33, Pls note that content added/changed needs to be supported by independent (not connection/affliation with the subject), reliable source(IRS), published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. such as from the major newspapers or books, for verification which is core policy of Wikipedia. Self source can be permitted provided it is only involved the subject "only" where by the info is important/significant to the subject and only use extremely sparingly in the said article. Even the source is independent and reliable the content still does not mean automatically include in the article unless as mentioned above it needs to be demonstrate the significant and important to the article. Many subjects in Wikipedia do have a religion believe, but mostly they are not included as it bear not significant merit tot he subject. Mixeadrticle is not a reliable source. If Pereira personal web site indicate he is a Muslim, then we can use it but if they is no evident that his conversion to the religion stop him from being drunk and subsequently help his career to a new high then the info of his is a Muslim or not has not significant contribution to be included into the article. Hope this help. Cassiopeia talk 05:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia
Is not a reliable source, you cannot a wikipedia article to overturn content on another article that is sourced. Slatersteven (talk) 16:23, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
The two refs in her career conflict the dates as well Nswix (talk) 16:26, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
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No small in infoboxes / Erin Blanchfiled
Hey! Is this something new? Because I had never heard of it (and I0ve been doing this for a while). Thanks!Psycho-Krillin (talk) 17:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Psycho-Krillin I was just talking about this here, so I'm not even sure if its best practice or not Nswix (talk) 17:13, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- I had no idea. I saw people doing it, back when I started editing, and assumed it was standard practice. I'll start reverting it as I come across infoboxex with it. Psycho-Krillin (talk) 17:21, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Psycho-Krillin That's Wikipedia for you. You spend years doing something right, until it changes, and then you have to go and undo it.
- Nswix (talk) 17:23, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Lewolka who I really trust here has started doing [1] Nswix (talk) 17:30, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yes @Nswix is right, at the end of the day the less cluttered the infobox the better; it’s totally up to you but I suggest adding a note which could also be place in the lead like I did for Maia here. Lewolka (talk) 19:32, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Lewolka who I really trust here has started doing [1] Nswix (talk) 17:30, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Psycho-Krillin also make note of new color box template, instead of just adding a colored box Nswix (talk) 20:37, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- I had no idea. I saw people doing it, back when I started editing, and assumed it was standard practice. I'll start reverting it as I come across infoboxex with it. Psycho-Krillin (talk) 17:21, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
Colour box
Hi. Thanks for your good editing. Please bear in mind that we don't use colour box in MMA infobox. Thanks! NEDOCHAN (talk) 18:17, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
- @NEDOCHAN really? cause they updated the BJJ belt template, I can't imagine trying to differentiate between BJJ infoboxes and MMA infoboxes with as much crossover as there is between athletes. Nswix (talk) 18:26, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
- @NEDOCHAN there was also confusion about using small font (as it violates WP:SMALLFONT) and the formatting of belts, which I discussed yesterday Nswix (talk) 18:33, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
- We've been deleting colour boxes for years and it'd be a huge struggle and in my view a waste of time to reintroduce them. I've written to Lewolka about it previously and their view was that for BJJ first fighters (as in those who'd merit an article based on their merits in that sport alone) it's reasonable and appropriate. But for MMA fighters it would go against longstanding agreement and editing, and would create an enormous amount of unnecessary work. NEDOCHAN (talk) 22:56, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi @NEDOCHAN, @Nswix, Hope you don’t mind me joining… per the last RfC which took place here, we agreed to restart the discussion at MOS/Icons “in order to establish a proper consensus&guidelines for or against their use.” So I guess we may need to do that.. otherwise it will get complicated as Nswix says with all the crossover between athletes. For example Ricardo Arona who is famous for both No-Gi and MMA, I thought creating a Category:Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioners who have competed in MMA would help but there are just too many editors involved and it may just be time to get a decision from the wikigods. Lewolka (talk) 21:30, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
- We've been deleting colour boxes for years and it'd be a huge struggle and in my view a waste of time to reintroduce them. I've written to Lewolka about it previously and their view was that for BJJ first fighters (as in those who'd merit an article based on their merits in that sport alone) it's reasonable and appropriate. But for MMA fighters it would go against longstanding agreement and editing, and would create an enormous amount of unnecessary work. NEDOCHAN (talk) 22:56, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
I think that would be needlessly complicated, honestly, and remember the likely upshot would involve adding loads of colour boxes for no real benefit. The last comment in the RFC makes sense imo. BJJ fighters who would truly have an article about them even if they have never competed, fair enough, MMA fighters no is what I reckon.NEDOCHAN (talk) 01:20, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
- We can try that but if it leads to endless reverses and discussions about every single entry then we should go for the higher level RfC. I don’t mind making the request. My suggestion is to check Bjjheroes list to assess notability of BJJ practitioners and coaches (they don't profile MMA not even Khabib, McGregor, Nate Diaz..etc) Submission grappling is considered No-Gi so those athletes are also included (unless they come from non BJJ background such as luta livre, wrestling, Judo, Sambo..etc.) and of course all the members of the Gracie family. Notable BJJ athletes who, concurrently or subsequently to their BJJ career, have competed in MMA should be added to the category Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioners who have competed in MMA, this will provide a quick overview of all the fighters who have the rank in their infobox. These are just my suggestions and of course totally open to discussion here (sorry Nswix) or moved/copied onto a WPTP. Best Lewolka (talk) 13:31, 22 February 2023 (UTC) edited Lewolka (talk) 15:06, 22 February 2023 (UTC)