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::::[http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Steward_requests/Checkuser&oldid=800449#Andranikpasha Here] is the checkuser request that I believe VartanM is referring to. <span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Jayvdb|John Vandenberg]] <sup>'''([[User talk:Jayvdb|chat]])'''</sup></span> 10:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC) |
::::[http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Steward_requests/Checkuser&oldid=800449#Andranikpasha Here] is the checkuser request that I believe VartanM is referring to. <span style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Jayvdb|John Vandenberg]] <sup>'''([[User talk:Jayvdb|chat]])'''</sup></span> 10:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC) |
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::::: This was a year ago now, so my memory may be imperfect but this is what I remember... Jayvdb requested a crosswiki check at Meta, and presented quite a bit of corroborating material to justify running it. In my considered judgement, as well as that of several other CUs, there was reason to run the check. I worked jointly with Jayvdb, checkuers from fr:wp and other wikis, and we carried out an extensive crosswiki check. It was a complex investigation and it was in some ways inconclusive and in other ways it found things that were concerning about some of the users that were found. I don't think there was anything wrong in any way about asking for this check, the justification presented was compelling. I don't think there was anything wrong in any way about how the check was performed, as multiple checkusers were involved and we checked each others work and findings. So I'm not really clear what the issue regarding this check is, as this was a shining example of how crosswiki checks ought to work. I would suggest that VartanM may not be presenting a completely unbiased view of this matter, for whatever reason. Further, these allegations made about Jayvdb seem completely unwarranted. DarkFalls has it just right. ++[[User:Lar|Lar]]: [[User_talk:Lar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lar|c]] 15:26, 1 December 2008 (UTC) |
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:::I sincerely hope that these comments towards John does not stems from your dislike of Grandmaster, or on John's past administrative actions which you seem to have taken a particular dislike in. You are hardly an uninvolved party in this debate, and these accusations are unfounded. Material such as ''"You can for all we know provide sensitive arbitration mailing list materials to your friends since we are at it. Or better, once you have checkusers access run those requests of your friends yourself"'' hold no weight whatsoever. Let me note the fact that every checkuser action is logged and monitored by everyone with checkuser access... As for John's "supposed" use as a proxy for others, I would like to see some evidence of this. To put it bluntly, we do not wish to see your hypothesis... rather we'll like the evidence. —[[User:DarkFalls|Dark]] <sup>[[User talk:DarkFalls|talk]]</sup> 10:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC) |
:::I sincerely hope that these comments towards John does not stems from your dislike of Grandmaster, or on John's past administrative actions which you seem to have taken a particular dislike in. You are hardly an uninvolved party in this debate, and these accusations are unfounded. Material such as ''"You can for all we know provide sensitive arbitration mailing list materials to your friends since we are at it. Or better, once you have checkusers access run those requests of your friends yourself"'' hold no weight whatsoever. Let me note the fact that every checkuser action is logged and monitored by everyone with checkuser access... As for John's "supposed" use as a proxy for others, I would like to see some evidence of this. To put it bluntly, we do not wish to see your hypothesis... rather we'll like the evidence. —[[User:DarkFalls|Dark]] <sup>[[User talk:DarkFalls|talk]]</sup> 10:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC) |
Revision as of 15:26, 1 December 2008
Ponty Pirate CU
You can send them to me via email and I will contact the local police. - NeutralHomer • Talk • November 20, 2008 @ 02:09
Edit Warrior
Kansas Bear has been relentlessly stalking me on these pages and vandalzing or removing most of my edits, without explanation, without reason and without any discussion. A good example is his repeated removal of a paragraph I have added in "Armenia–Turkey relations". The paragraph itself links to numerous rebellions detailed in Wikipedia articles, and obviously belongs in an article with that title. None of the facts are disputed. Supposedly a well researched academic book titled "Armenian Rebellion at Van" does not qualify as reference under a heading "Armenian Rebellions" and not in an article named "Armenia–Turkey relations"! Due to my inexperience in fending these attacks intially, and the coordinated nature of these pro-Armenian pov edits, I have been put in a disadvantage already. I am aware of his obsession with these topics, willing to accomodate him and others who are determined to turn these pages into blatant Armenian ethnic propaganda and alternate reality tools, but there has to be a limit somewhere. I would like these attacks, this stalking and this destructive editing to come to an end. Can you help me?--Murat (talk) 04:32, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
- Fact 1,[1] -continued attempt to edit POV after discussion[2], and after shown a primary source which corroborates the article[3].
- Fact 2, Removal of referenced material[4], after posting a contentious statement unsupported by factual evidence.
- Fact 3, Continued removal of heavily referenced statement[5], without using talk page.
- Fact 4, More edits to remove heavily referenced statement[6], while categorically denying that references exist!
- Fact 5, Upon a cursory check of said individual's contributions[7], it is clear this person has an obsession to manipulate the POV of selected articles by removing referenced material that is unpalatable to this person's puerile mentality. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:12, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- Murat is not in a strong position here. Almost all his edits are contentious ones, inserting marginal opinions as if they were accepted mainstream facts. Also, he repeatedly tries to insert the same material again and again, even though that material has been discussed and rejected in talk pages. That is why those repeat edits tend to be reverted without a detailed explanation. And when he makes useful additions (which I admit he does sometimes), those additions are often buried within more POV material, making it difficult to salvage the good stuff from the unacceptable. If Kansas Bear has been watching the articles he has been trying to edit, or watching his editing history, it is because there is a legitimate reason to do it. However, it would be better if Kansas Bear were to give a proper edit summary when reverting or removing material. Meowy 20:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Move back to first title
Please move 19 October 2008 attack on Bihari Railway Recruitment examinees back to 19 October 2008 All-India Railway Recruitment Board examination attack. User:Manoj nav clearly wanted to highlight the Bihari connection by ignoring UP and Jharkhand examinees. See the talk page discussion. I can't do it myself as only an admin can do it. I thought of informing you as you were involved in one of the moves. Regards. --KnowledgeHegemony talk 07:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi, looks like EggOne is able to evade the block using different IP (you blocked his previous IP already for three months). New sock AllergicThursdays (talk · contribs). Thanks --[[::User:Unpopular Opinion|Unpopular Opinion]] ([[::User talk:Unpopular Opinion|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Unpopular Opinion|contribs]]) 12:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
- I changed all the tags on the previous socks[8]. Thanks, --[[::User:Unpopular Opinion|Unpopular Opinion]] ([[::User talk:Unpopular Opinion|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Unpopular Opinion|contribs]]) 18:46, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
- Damn, we've really got to do something about that guy. He's so annoying. I AM THE EGG. --[[::User:Eggd3|Eggd3]] ([[::User talk:Eggd3|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Eggd3|contribs]])
Help
I don't know if you can, but could you at least try to help with Nevado del Ruiz? Thanks, —Ceran ♦ ♦ (speak) 22:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
AA
Hey Nish, I saw your vote for Jayvdb and wanted to ask what "AA issues" are. I was planning to support, but as you're one of the editors I most respect, I wanted to be familiar with the substance of your concern. --JayHenry (talk) 04:50, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Just a quick note, I have clearly stated that I will recuse from any AA arbitration at Questions from PhilKnight. My involvement in any arbitration would not be helpful.
- I know I have been getting increasingly "involved" in that, culminating with my involvement in the Ehud case. One side of that dispute showed overwhelming displeasure so I have tried to stay away from it since then. If it would help, I'd be happy to review all my admin actions and provide a list of tool use since that case.
- John Vandenberg (chat) 05:40, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for the note. As I see it, all the Arbs inevitably have some entanglements, but it looks like Jayvdb has been as upfront about it as any of them, pledging to recuse. As a thought to Jayvdb, I would say to remember that Arbitrators wield both formal Arbitrator power, secondary powers such as oversight and checkuser, and the informal (but perhaps as important) power of being on that inner circle, having the ear of the fellow arbs and the community, even when you're not on the formal podium. Sometimes recusing from a case is sufficient and sometimes further steps are needed. As an aside, Nish. I was surprised not to see your name on the candidate list. You'd be good at it. In the future perhaps? --JayHenry (talk) 06:11, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think the way you have handled the case is a very legitimate concern which goes beyond AA. You have not tried to stay away from it, you continued with your very questionable actions. A recent example is this report by Grandmaster against Vacio, regarding Sisak. Three days later you suspiciously created the page about Sisak (eponym). The arbitration enforcement page had become a soapbox because of the report, in which Grandmaster attempted to have a much lesser experienced user restricted by inviting him to revert war. Given the ‘eponym’ use, you knew what the result would be, a confrontation between both users when the eponym was at the center of the conflict (the timing and the exact subject choosing was very suspicious), which you could not have ignored and would have gotten Vacio restricted. This sort of actions which result is to perpetuate conflicts which resulted with unnecessary restrictions unwelcomed. There are legitimate concerns to oppose you. We have seen you deal with cases and witnessed how you handle things. Your beautiful speech has no value when actions speak a lot louder than words.
- It does not stop there, the AA case without doubt shows a potential from your side to support your friends (not only those involved in AA). And this underground communications, including trying to have another user restricted from English Wikipedia by asking a checkusers to run a Wikipedia-wide checkusers, to then have your friend use that to have the person with whom he is disagreeing with restricted. Evidence of proxing for others this way, and systematically taking one side is the last thing which is needed. You can for all we know provide sensitive arbitration mailing list materials to your friends since we are at it. Or better, once you have checkusers access run those requests of your friends yourself.
- Like another who said it, it's just politics. Recuse does not satisfy me, we've had three arbitration cases, and very questionable at that, but John's statements, opinions and analysis by far were worse than what the most inept arbitrator could have come with. VartanM (talk) 06:35, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- I created Sisak_(eponym) because it "Sisak" was mentioned over on Rlevse's user page around that time in regards to some dispute, and Sisak was obviously not the topic you were all talking about. The way it was mentioned it seemed like it was a pretty vital piece of information for Rlevse to understand, so I wrote the article. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Here is the checkuser request that I believe VartanM is referring to. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- This was a year ago now, so my memory may be imperfect but this is what I remember... Jayvdb requested a crosswiki check at Meta, and presented quite a bit of corroborating material to justify running it. In my considered judgement, as well as that of several other CUs, there was reason to run the check. I worked jointly with Jayvdb, checkuers from fr:wp and other wikis, and we carried out an extensive crosswiki check. It was a complex investigation and it was in some ways inconclusive and in other ways it found things that were concerning about some of the users that were found. I don't think there was anything wrong in any way about asking for this check, the justification presented was compelling. I don't think there was anything wrong in any way about how the check was performed, as multiple checkusers were involved and we checked each others work and findings. So I'm not really clear what the issue regarding this check is, as this was a shining example of how crosswiki checks ought to work. I would suggest that VartanM may not be presenting a completely unbiased view of this matter, for whatever reason. Further, these allegations made about Jayvdb seem completely unwarranted. DarkFalls has it just right. ++Lar: t/c 15:26, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Here is the checkuser request that I believe VartanM is referring to. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- I sincerely hope that these comments towards John does not stems from your dislike of Grandmaster, or on John's past administrative actions which you seem to have taken a particular dislike in. You are hardly an uninvolved party in this debate, and these accusations are unfounded. Material such as "You can for all we know provide sensitive arbitration mailing list materials to your friends since we are at it. Or better, once you have checkusers access run those requests of your friends yourself" hold no weight whatsoever. Let me note the fact that every checkuser action is logged and monitored by everyone with checkuser access... As for John's "supposed" use as a proxy for others, I would like to see some evidence of this. To put it bluntly, we do not wish to see your hypothesis... rather we'll like the evidence. —Dark talk 10:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- It looks like JayHenry read this one well; the "further steps" he mentioned are definitely important, and my clear statement about recusal is evidently not clear enough. I should have made it clear that I would not use the checkuser or oversight tools in those circumstances either; I have updated my answer to that question in order to clarify this.
- As an example that JayHenry might remember, the Academic Journals project was trying to set up its own delsorting list. I have also been quite active on the delsorting project, and could quite easily have pushed it through, but because I am one of the principle members of the AJ project, it still doesnt have its own delsorting list. (relevant discussion here). --John Vandenberg (chat) 10:31, 1 December 2008 (UTC)