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On another note have you seen [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Strategy/Self-assessment]]? As someone new to the MILHIST project I think it would be great if you could offer your opinions and viewpoints on the MILHIST project. How do you see it at the moment? Thanks, [[User:Woody|Woody]] ([[User talk:Woody|talk]]) 11:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC) |
On another note have you seen [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Strategy/Self-assessment]]? As someone new to the MILHIST project I think it would be great if you could offer your opinions and viewpoints on the MILHIST project. How do you see it at the moment? Thanks, [[User:Woody|Woody]] ([[User talk:Woody|talk]]) 11:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC) |
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:That's fine, if and when you feel up to commenting then please do so. You don't have to offer an opinion in all sections just the ones where you feel you have something to offer. [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Strategy/Self-assessment#Where could this project improve?|Where to improve?]] seems a good place for a newbie to offer their opinions. I saw the peer review you gave and it was very thorough, just what is needed. Keep up the good work. [[User:Woody|Woody]] ([[User talk:Woody|talk]]) 14:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:03, 12 July 2011
Template:Archive box collapsible
RE:Peer review issues
Hi MarcusBritish, hopefully I can help explain it. The B-Class assessment stays on the talk page until it gets a higher assessment rating. (In reality you don't have to remove it as using FA/FL/A/GA will override the B-Class criteria.) So, no need to touch the B-Class. Now, on to the Peer Review, the main issue here is that the Peer Review is still open. Given the paucity of reviewers around at the moment I would suggest opening an A-Class review (ACR) rather than a new peer review. I think you have got all you can out of a peer review, the next logical step is an A-Class review. If you do open an ACR then the PR needs closing. You can do it yourself or you can take the easier option and ask one of the coordinators (like me) to do it. ;) Hope this helps. If you want to open up an ACR I can talk you through that if you like as well. Woody (talk) 20:00, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
- I've made a few tweaks to the table just now so that it is more in line with "wiki-formatting" rather than standard HTML. I've also used {{dts}} for the dates, it saves all of the "display:none" formatting. Given that the Peer Review is currently open, I don't think there is much to be gained from putting it through PR again. I think it best to keep pushing the article forwards and up the assessment scale: go to ACR. Opening it is fairly easy, the instructions are at WP:MHR#A-CLASS. The key points: Add
A-Class=current
to the {{WPMILHIST}} project banner, then click on the "currently undergoing" link that appears in the template. This will open a page pre-formatted for the discussion of the status of the article. Then you write your nomination page listing your reasons for nominating, link to the peer review here for example. Then you add the transclusion to the WP:MHR#A-CLASS page. I can deal with the PR for you if you would like. Woody (talk) 21:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)- Whoops, I didn't notice that there were date ranges used there otherwise I wouldn't have used it, I've reverted myself on that one. You do need the full length for the dates though, so you need to do that. On the wikitables though, I have to disagree with you. Frankly, I don't think it will get through the assessments, particularly FLC with non-standardised formatting. You can force the column widths to help with your padding issue though. On a personal level, I find the wikitables much easier to look at and more intuitive. The html version looks dated. If you have an accessibility issue with the styling, you can try and attain consensus to get the style amended but it is the basis of all wikipedia tables and so a lot of thought has gone into making it accessible and usable and it is widely accepted across Wikipedia. Woody (talk) 21:48, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry again about the dates thing, just wasn't looking what I was doing. I know all about the issues surrounding sorting etc for wikitables, my current FLC List of Victoria Cross recipients (A–F) was a labour of love getting the rank column to sort how I wanted it to. I'll offer my comments on the ACR in the next couple of days. I've done all the admin stuff relating to the PR and the ACR so that is all set now, you've just got to wait for the reviews. By the way, you are a trailblazer in the sense that there are no other similar lists currently at FL status. Good luck. Woody (talk) 22:25, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
- It is an error to think that simply because one reviewer hasn't brought up doesn't mean that it isn't an issue. Some reviewers concentrate solely on one specific area eg images, citations, prose and won't look at other areas. Reviewers, particularly in assessment processes, have the right to offer suggestions and offer demands for their support ie I suggest X or my opinion is Y... but this is a policy and I oppose promotion if Z remains in the article. It is then for the person closing the review to judge the merits and weight of this oppose.
- Reviewing is always about opinions and when doing it over the web and in plain text the nuances of language and face-to-face contact is lost. The way comments are made can be easily misinterpreted by the person reading them and this always has to be taken into account when reading the reviews. You need a particularly thick skin sometimes, FAC in particular. Incidentally, that is what I think has happened here, comments have been misread and wires have been crossed.
- Wikipedia in general is suffering from a dearth of reviewers so anything you can do to help will be gratefully received. There is no MOS of reviewing no, but there have been a number of rules of thumb drawn up. The signpost came up with this and MILHIST's Academy offers a number of suggestions. A few editors have offered their opinions and pearls of wisdom on reviewing for the Bugle (MILHIST newsletter) and these can be found here. Often it helps to just get stuck in and learn from any mistakes. If you have any questions after that, feel free to ask away, Regards, Woody (talk) 17:35, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
- You misquote me, I said "dearth" not death! All of the review processes are suffering from a lack of reviewers be they within or outside of the MILHIST project. Our ACR and PRs are lacking as well as the main PR/FAC/FLC etc. Incidentally that is part of the reason why we (Coordinators) are going to merge our PR into the main PR system. As a project, Milhist is one of the most active and productive of Wiki-projects, the talk pages are congenial, active, and very productive. Our backlogs are miniscule compared to other projects so it is something many other projects look to for inspiration. It's fine being frank, you've just got to be careful as to how your comments could be construed by someone else with a different viewpoint. Woody (talk) 11:04, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry again about the dates thing, just wasn't looking what I was doing. I know all about the issues surrounding sorting etc for wikitables, my current FLC List of Victoria Cross recipients (A–F) was a labour of love getting the rank column to sort how I wanted it to. I'll offer my comments on the ACR in the next couple of days. I've done all the admin stuff relating to the PR and the ACR so that is all set now, you've just got to wait for the reviews. By the way, you are a trailblazer in the sense that there are no other similar lists currently at FL status. Good luck. Woody (talk) 22:25, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
- Whoops, I didn't notice that there were date ranges used there otherwise I wouldn't have used it, I've reverted myself on that one. You do need the full length for the dates though, so you need to do that. On the wikitables though, I have to disagree with you. Frankly, I don't think it will get through the assessments, particularly FLC with non-standardised formatting. You can force the column widths to help with your padding issue though. On a personal level, I find the wikitables much easier to look at and more intuitive. The html version looks dated. If you have an accessibility issue with the styling, you can try and attain consensus to get the style amended but it is the basis of all wikipedia tables and so a lot of thought has gone into making it accessible and usable and it is widely accepted across Wikipedia. Woody (talk) 21:48, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
A Class review
I got your request for an A-class review. I've submitted many articles, including many assessed as B-class, but so far I have no GA or A-Class articles (to my knowledge). The only article I ever submitted began the process, but only one editor ever looked at it and it "timed out". So, I'm going to decline your request on the grounds that I don't know how to do an A-class review, having never written an A-class article. I try to be a good sport and do a lot of B-Class reviews to "return the favor", so if you ever need a B-Class review please ask. I did look at the Wellington article and believe that the Second Siege of Badajoz was a defeat (see also Digby Smith or David Gates). Overall, your article is beautifully cited and well-written. Djmaschek (talk) 02:34, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
- Hi MarcusBritish, thanks for your message. You can count on me contributing to an A-Class Review. I am able to contribute on issues related to content mostly; I went through most of the article and I have 4-5 remarks. I have to say that I am not very good though at "procedure"; I only know my history, that's all. Do let me know if you proceed with an A-Class Review. Best,--Alexandru Demian (talk) 21:02, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Wellington ACR
I saw it was closed as no consensus, I think it was always going to suffer after the tête-à-tête that occurred early on. Hopefully this second review can pass this time. I think it is an excellent list but everyone has a different way of looking at things. I've headed on over there and re-offered my support.
On another note have you seen Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Strategy/Self-assessment? As someone new to the MILHIST project I think it would be great if you could offer your opinions and viewpoints on the MILHIST project. How do you see it at the moment? Thanks, Woody (talk) 11:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
- That's fine, if and when you feel up to commenting then please do so. You don't have to offer an opinion in all sections just the ones where you feel you have something to offer. Where to improve? seems a good place for a newbie to offer their opinions. I saw the peer review you gave and it was very thorough, just what is needed. Keep up the good work. Woody (talk) 14:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC)