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:Will do, in the next few hours hopefully. [[User:Malleus Fatuorum|Malleus]] [[User_talk:Malleus_Fatuorum|Fatuorum]] 15:49, 24 September 2011 (UTC) |
:Will do, in the next few hours hopefully. [[User:Malleus Fatuorum|Malleus]] [[User_talk:Malleus_Fatuorum|Fatuorum]] 15:49, 24 September 2011 (UTC) |
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== Request for enforcement == |
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This is notification that I've filed a request for enforcement against you per [[WP:ARB911]].[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&action=historysubmit&diff=452215866&oldid=452181775] [[User:A Quest For Knowledge|A Quest For Knowledge]] ([[User talk:A Quest For Knowledge|talk]]) 16:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC) |
Revision as of 16:38, 24 September 2011
There are many aspects of wikipedia's governance that seem to me to be at best ill-considered and at worst corrupt, and little recognition that some things need to change. I appreciate that there are many good, talented, and honest people here, but there are far too many who are none of those things, concerned only with the status they acquire by doing whatever is required to climb up some greasy pole or other. I'm out of step with the way things are run here, and at best grudgingly tolerated by the children who run this site. I see that as a good thing, although I appreciate that there are others who see it as an excuse to look for any reason to block me, as my log amply demonstrates. |
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Talk page stalkers alert...
Anyone see anything DYK-worthy in Honorius of Kent? He's not likely to grow much past this size, so there isn't a pressing need for DYK, but if anyone sees anything, they are welcome to nominate it. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:01, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- Did you know Honorius of Kent? If you did, please tell us something interesting about him. Ning-ning (talk) 22:50, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- The only one I can think of is DYK that Honorius was one of King John's proctors, until sacked for opposing him (…sounds of snoring from audience). Did you know that the study of proctors is called proctology? Ning-ning (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
- On a serious basis, a variant on the above, "DYK that Honorius tried to help King John appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury, but was later sacked by the king?" Less seriously, "DYK that Honorious wrote seven manuscripts of the summa decretalium quaestionum; the final copy may, or may not, have been eaten by his dog." :) Hchc2009 (talk) 20:41, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
- The only one I can think of is DYK that Honorius was one of King John's proctors, until sacked for opposing him (…sounds of snoring from audience). Did you know that the study of proctors is called proctology? Ning-ning (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Interview with Wikimedia Foundation
Hi Malleus, selection criteria have mostly been word of mouth as we interview editors. I personally love foul-mouthed uncivil louts, so I'd be down to interview you, if that's what you were implying and if you're inclined. Moni was recommended by another editor who enjoyed working with her. As for what we're looking for in the process, it seems to be editors who inspire readers to click the donate button. The most successful appeals have been the ones from people who feel that Wikipedia is changing the world for the better. And they are able to express that sentiment in a convincing, interesting way. More on the fundraising tests this year here and here. Would you want to participate? Please let me know. Cheers, Matthew (WMF) 21:52, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- I was just trying to imagine a personal appeal from Malleus to give money to the Foundation. :D SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS
- Malleus, you should write a parody of Jimbo's appeal! :D Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:41, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- Maybe "Johnny Rotten" Lydon would oblige? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- How much exactly would you pay, Jebus989? I have a number that might make it worth our while :) Matthew (WMF) 22:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for checking in Malleus. Best, Matthew (WMF) 23:27, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- I also turned Matthew down, but mainly because I felt me on a banner ad would not endear me to fellow Wikipedians. He didn't even call me names.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:46, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hi Wehwalt, I was only using the name Malleus used for himself on Moni's talk page. I wouldn't volunteer that if I didn't think it was in the spirit of his humour. Matthew (WMF) 16:50, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Likewise, I turned Matthew down, assuming that the most upbeat and positive of editors would be ideal for this project. Ones who are aesthetically pleasing and superhumanly excited about giving money to Wikipedia. I can't muster that kind of impossible enthusiasm. Perhaps Matthew should explain how he might edit an ad using interviewees who treat Wikipedia like a the last magic grizzly bear on earth; a fascinating creature that can recite poetry but hasn't eaten for two years. --Moni3 (talk) 11:54, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I used to play College Bowl for my university, including one year it was televised on the Disney Channel. I heard later that the reason Disney only ran the one year was that the players were not aesthetically pleasing, having been selected as good players rather than good lookers. I suspect the same is true of Wikipedia editors. Matthew may have some difficulty there.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:38, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I won't make claims about him aesthetically, but Brandon's banner has been the most successful to date. As for editing an ad for an interviewee with that disposition, I personally think it would be fun. I can't say it would work for fundraising, but I'd gladly try. Matthew (WMF) 17:52, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I used to play College Bowl for my university, including one year it was televised on the Disney Channel. I heard later that the reason Disney only ran the one year was that the players were not aesthetically pleasing, having been selected as good players rather than good lookers. I suspect the same is true of Wikipedia editors. Matthew may have some difficulty there.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:38, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I also turned Matthew down, but mainly because I felt me on a banner ad would not endear me to fellow Wikipedians. He didn't even call me names.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:46, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Nonsense, Malleus is just the guy to be our Bob Geldorf. Otherwise it will end up looking like "I'd like to teach the world to give money to Wikipedia". Johnbod (talk) 14:43, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I should be interested in seeing how Malleus' editing methods translate to fundraising.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- how's this for an idea. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:58, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- LOL*. That rivals "First we sow the seeds, then nature grows the seeds ..." as my favorite Young Ones scene. :D
- Kiefer.Wolfowitz 06:54, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
- how's this for an idea. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:58, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I should be interested in seeing how Malleus' editing methods translate to fundraising.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Request
This remark is uncivil, and likely only to further inflame things. Please avoid saying things like that.[1] Tom Harrison Talk 00:11, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- In the very unlikely event that I ever need your opinion I'll ask for it. Malleus Fatuorum 00:14, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- [2] Tom Harrison Talk 00:29, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Good luck with that. Malleus Fatuorum 00:29, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Bloody hell. What's the standard for hauling someone to ANI these days? That's two frivolous complaints on the same issue in one day! Perhaps we should rename it "Administrators' Noticeboard/Everything that doesn't need or has no hope of getting admin action but provides a venue for people to winge"? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:37, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think that Tom makes it very clear what the purpose of ANI is, it's to punish those who don't roll over when an admin comes calling. Malleus Fatuorum 00:43, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Tom resigned as admin in 2010, I believe. I'm inclined to agree with HJM that he and Malleus are being dragged to AN/I in a somewhat frivolous fashion. I liked what User:Georgewilliamherbert said, that it's suboptimal but was provoked by the other party. In context, it wasn't particularly offensive; less so in my book than being accused of being a "POV-pusher" or a "CTer" (how 2006!) when making suggestions on an article talk page in the context of a content review, though your mileage may vary. MONGO is an unfortunate phenomenon, a bully who has become accustomed to getting his own way. He doesn't seem to know how to handle it when things seem to be going against him on the content front. I hope I didn't overstep the line when I explained it to him here, but he needs to see that threatening everyone he disagrees with isn't a winning strategy. Any suggestions are welcome. --John (talk) 02:52, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think that Tom makes it very clear what the purpose of ANI is, it's to punish those who don't roll over when an admin comes calling. Malleus Fatuorum 00:43, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Bloody hell. What's the standard for hauling someone to ANI these days? That's two frivolous complaints on the same issue in one day! Perhaps we should rename it "Administrators' Noticeboard/Everything that doesn't need or has no hope of getting admin action but provides a venue for people to winge"? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:37, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Good luck with that. Malleus Fatuorum 00:29, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- [2] Tom Harrison Talk 00:29, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
I discussed this matter with Tom Harrison and thanked him for going to bat for me, but I am permitting Malleus to come to my talkpage and say anything he wants anytime he wants...that way if he needs a place to vent he can now go there and be exempted from further administrator actions.MONGO 19:01, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- What do you mean by further administrative actions? Malleus Fatuorum 19:05, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- This way you have a safe haven to vent so if you are angry you can go to my talkpage and go bonkers and use whatever language you want...MONGO 19:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- You are a joker. Malleus Fatuorum 19:30, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Malleus, while this may seem frivolous and from the leftfield, the interaction above reminded me of this video. You can be Ferguson, the rest of us Bullard... Make of that what you will but please note I mean no offence! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:41, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- You are a joker. Malleus Fatuorum 19:30, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- This way you have a safe haven to vent so if you are angry you can go to my talkpage and go bonkers and use whatever language you want...MONGO 19:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to interrupt, but how do Brits pronounce "whinge"? Seeing it on wikipedia, I always assumed it was an alternative spelling to our "whine", but I think I heard the guy on An Idiot Abroad actually pronounce it as it is spelled. Do whinge and whine mean the same thing? Tex (talk) 19:50, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- The same way as "sponge". Parrot of Doom 19:51, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, its "winje", but we are lucky enough to have lots of both whiners and whingers over here, maybe more than in Texas. There's not much difference between them. Johnbod (talk) 20:03, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, 'whinge' means pretty much the same as 'whine'. Australians are very fond of calling Brits 'whinging Poms' as many of those who emigrate to Oz supposedly harp on about how much better everything was back home. Richerman (talk) 00:00, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Whinging Poms who never bathe, as in "my throat's as dry as as Pommie's towel". On the other hand we've got at least as many jokes about them, as in "What's an Australian bloke's idea of foreplay? Brace yourself Sheila." Or the old chestnut about a Brit being asked at Aussie immigration if he had a criminal record: "I didn't think that was still obligatory." It's a very good-natured piss-taking relationship though, except when it comes to cricket, or rugby, or ... Malleus Fatuorum 00:08, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Look, can we keep this civil and stick to objective, dispassionate and collegial analysis such as, "Q: how can you tell when a plane-load of poms lands at Sydney Airport? A: The whining keeps going when the engines are turned off." Mention of the state of Australian cricket or rugby in this context is simply in very poor taste indeed. --Shirt58 (talk) 13:26, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Whinging Poms who never bathe, as in "my throat's as dry as as Pommie's towel". On the other hand we've got at least as many jokes about them, as in "What's an Australian bloke's idea of foreplay? Brace yourself Sheila." Or the old chestnut about a Brit being asked at Aussie immigration if he had a criminal record: "I didn't think that was still obligatory." It's a very good-natured piss-taking relationship though, except when it comes to cricket, or rugby, or ... Malleus Fatuorum 00:08, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, 'whinge' means pretty much the same as 'whine'. Australians are very fond of calling Brits 'whinging Poms' as many of those who emigrate to Oz supposedly harp on about how much better everything was back home. Richerman (talk) 00:00, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Afonso, Prince Imperial of Brazil
Hello, Malleus. I believe that all issues raised by you to the article have been fixed. If not, please tell us which ones we missed. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 19:01, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
- I believe it's fine. Why won't you support it? --Lecen (talk) 01:21, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because I'm still unconvinced by the prose. I made a few changes to the lead, as I said on your talk page. What's your view on those changes? Malleus Fatuorum 01:25, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I believe they are fine. Couldnt see anything wrong.--Lecen (talk) 02:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- You oppose is temporary, right? Although Astynax argued against some of your suggestions, I corrected (or simply removed the thoublesome pieces) all of them after that. Saying "weaving to try and persuade me that what is obviously ungrammatical is actually grammatical" is quite unfair, since all issues raised by you were eventually corrected that way you proposed. --Lecen (talk) 02:52, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- My oppose is a holding position. I don't feel that my concerns were properly dealt with, but if they are than I'll quite happily change my mind. "Weaving [and dodging] to try and persuade me that what is obviously ungrammatical is actually grammatical" is actually what happened, not at all unfair. Malleus Fatuorum 03:26, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Which ones were not corrected? --Lecen (talk) 03:34, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have given you many examples of problems, several of which Astynax has unsuccessfully tried to persuade me are not problems at all. I have already said that I will read through the article again over the weekend, and either fix or flag up anything else I see. Malleus Fatuorum 03:42, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- And let me just remind you that it's not my job to get your article into shape, that's your job. I'm prepared to help, but only to a degree. Malleus Fatuorum 05:34, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Which ones were not corrected? --Lecen (talk) 03:34, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- My oppose is a holding position. I don't feel that my concerns were properly dealt with, but if they are than I'll quite happily change my mind. "Weaving [and dodging] to try and persuade me that what is obviously ungrammatical is actually grammatical" is actually what happened, not at all unfair. Malleus Fatuorum 03:26, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- You oppose is temporary, right? Although Astynax argued against some of your suggestions, I corrected (or simply removed the thoublesome pieces) all of them after that. Saying "weaving to try and persuade me that what is obviously ungrammatical is actually grammatical" is quite unfair, since all issues raised by you were eventually corrected that way you proposed. --Lecen (talk) 02:52, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I believe they are fine. Couldnt see anything wrong.--Lecen (talk) 02:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Because I'm still unconvinced by the prose. I made a few changes to the lead, as I said on your talk page. What's your view on those changes? Malleus Fatuorum 01:25, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Malleus, I believe te entire idea behind Wikipedia is so that a group of people can help each other. I'm really glad you've taken some time to review the article. When I ask "what is wrong?" or "what did I forget to correct" I really mean it. I'm not trying to fool you around. You must remember that there are two editors behind the article, not just one. Even though Astynax argued that he believed that some of your remarks perhaps had no need to be addressed, I corrected them later. You may simply check the article's history log to see my editions. I hope you may review the article again and point out which passages you believe should be improved (and how, because I must confess that English is not my native language). Your help is appreciated. P.S.: If you prefer, you might as well simply make the corrections yourself if you're not willing to write them down one by one in the FAC nomination page. --Lecen (talk) 11:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hello, Malleus. You and Dank have both made significant changes to the article from top to bottom yesterday. Is there something else missing? --Lecen (talk) 17:52, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks
The Genji Award | |
Thanks for your help in bringing Murasaki Shikibu through FAC. I couldn't have done it without your copyedits and encouragement. Truthkeeper (talk) 17:34, 16 September 2011 (UTC) |
Feedback requested
Hey Malleus, could you please provide feedback at this peer review? I'm planning on bringing the article under peer review, Silver Reef, Utah, to FAC soon, and I want to make sure all of the major problems are taken care of beforehand. Thanks, The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs 03:31, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm strangely fascinated by ghost towns since I saw one or two on my trip through California about ten years or so ago ... might have been fifteen years ago ... can't remember. Anyway, I'll be happy to take a look. Malleus Fatuorum 03:51, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've made a few comments at the peer review, but in general I think you need to recruit a good copyeditor before you think of taking this to FAC; there are loads more problems than those I've identified. Malleus Fatuorum 22:54, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'll ask around. Thanks for your help. The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs 23:10, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Bath Abbey
If you had the time or motivation would you kindly take a look at my prose on Bath Abbey as I'm hoping to nominate this at GAN before long.— Rod talk 07:59, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- This has now been nominated for GA, but any further comments or edits would still be useful.— Rod talk 21:09, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I forgot! Malleus Fatuorum 21:10, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- You need to be consistent about "Abbey" or "abbey". Right now the first half of the article capitalises it but the last half doesn't. Malleus Fatuorum 21:34, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks again - I've standardised on Abbey.— Rod talk 07:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
ANI remarks.
Those sexual remarks made to a minor [by Delicious Carbuncle] are wholly inappropriate, possibly criminal, and can only serve to bring the project into disrepute. Do not replace them. Consider this a warning.--Scott Mac 15:42, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Warn away, but I do not agree with you and I will revert any further attempts by you to remove what are perfectly proper comments concerning a minor who wishes to join the pornography project. Malleus Fatuorum 15:50, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think we must have been at cross purposes. The "fisting" aside was the target of my removals, and my objection was that you replaced this remark which went beyond any reasonable debate. I think the problem was that you were more concerned with the etiquette of not removing debating points, rather than with the offensive aside and I was more concerned with removing the offence rather than with the etiquette of inhouse protocol. However, we now have the offence removed, without the debate being stifled. So all's well.--Scott Mac 16:34, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Just so there's no misunderstanding by potential passers by, the remarks Scott objected to me were not made by me. Malleus Fatuorum 17:04, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think just the fisting question should have been removed, or possibly taken to talk. The rest of it seemed OK. I would not want the discussion to stand with a 13 year old, if he is, urged to look at an article on a particular sexual practice. If we were all sitting around IRL, it would have been ill advised for DC to make the comment then, I don't think it improves with print.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:08, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'd probably agree with that, with the proviso that we can have no idea whether the editor in question is really 13 years old or not. And as we don't know, it's all too easy to censor on the basis that he(?) might be, which is what I fundamentally object to. I don't know if everyone does this, but I generally have in my head a picture of the editors I deal with regularly, at least in terms of gender, age, nationality, level of education and so on, although I may well often be wrong. But what's certainly true is that there are things I would likely choose not to say to someone I had good reason to believe was still at school as opposed to a grizzled old veteran like myself. Malleus Fatuorum 20:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) Your standard "You are a joker" is probably the safest bet. Not too insulting, impervious to age: very neutral. Jus' sayin'. Doc talk 07:19, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Image grid table fixed
I thought you might be interested to know that user MissMJ has come up with working table code to replace the image grids I've been using. You can see an example at Super Science Stories -- I'm going to go through and replace all the image grids (gradually -- there are quite a few). It looks to me as though the line-height setting, combined with setting a font size, is what did the trick. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:37, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- Looks very nice. I'm disappointed with myself that I didn't think of increasing the font size to match the minimum cell height. Malleus Fatuorum 21:09, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Advice sought...
Morning! I was after a favour... If you had a chance, would you take a look at Stephen, King of England? I'm trying to judge if I've got the prose into a suitable state for a run at FAR with it, and would value your opinion. (NB: as with earlier articles like Windsor Castle, etc., its usually the fine detail of the prose that lets me down! - I'm pretty sure the research is up to scratch). Yours, Hchc2009 (talk) 07:01, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
- It would be excellent to get this one through FAC (not FAR, heaven forbid). I see my copyediting notes are completely unhelpful ... "ce, ce, ce" ... but I remember being happy with the first half. - Dank (push to talk) 14:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Ship canal
You know what working on this article makes me think, is that the way the Irwell is treated as it passes through Manchester is nothing short of a disgrace. Here's a city with a whacking great river running straight through the middle, and it's still completely hidden from view. I can understand why people once wanted to hide it from view (see the filled in parapets), but nowadays? There's no reason why it couldn't be made a thing of beauty, instead of a forgotten drain. And don't get me started on the River Irk, which I think the council would much rather did not exist.
Anyway I think the canal would now stand a good chance at FAC. Parrot of Doom 18:02, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
- As I thought, nothing good happens in England without a Scot doing some of the work. I created Wigg Island as a stub to get rid of that annoying redlink. I think it is looking good (the MSC article, not my stub), and I only have one remaining issue at FAC which I am sure we can figure out. --John (talk) 07:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
I just wanted to say the last time I was in England (in Cheshire to visit relatives) as I went back-and-forth daily on the bridge over the canal I thought that someone really ought to write about it because to this Yank it's very interesting. I haven't read the page yet - I peeked at it and it looked really nice. Hopefully I'll get to it soon, but am so pleased to see this at FAC. Truthkeeper (talk) 20:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks. It's another of those articles I've been plodding away with for what seems like forever, so I'm pleased that with the generous help of many others, and especially Parrot of Doom, it's at last ready for the challenge of FAC. Canals aren't a topic I feel altogether at ease with, but I hope I've done this one justice. Malleus Fatuorum 20:25, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm glad I found another article to get my teeth stuck into (or was it kicked into my face, heheh), but I'm especially pleased that after many years of idle curiosity, I now understand exactly how the canal works. I never quite knew how it was kept topped up, or what the curious Mersey meander at Latchford was for. Parrot of Doom 20:29, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Please do a copy edit
Somewhere above you promised/threatened to review one of my GA submissions but then backed down from that awesome challenge. Anyway, I just nominated an article by a different user for GA, Heinrich Rau. The thing here is that this is someone I disagreed with before but I've also watched him work really hard on this article over the years. The other thing is that his first language is not English so some of the prose is/was quite awkward . I've tried to clean it up but it could use another set of eyes. More importantly, and I still get lost in this, the GA conventions can be a bit esoteric for users who are unfamiliar with the process. But Henrig has spent almost two years tweaking this thing, and in terms of being accurate and informative I think he's got it right. So, I am going to trade that promise in, even though I let you slip by before, and ask you to help out here. A going-through and a decent grammar/style edit would be sufficient. (And yeah, this is a topic which I don't care about at all either). Volunteer Marek 02:33, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't do GA reviews any more, but a quick look tells me that the prose will be a problem. I've made a few fixes and I'll try to get through the whole thing over the next few days. Malleus Fatuorum 21:06, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'll read over it a few more times over the weekend as well. Volunteer Marek 18:03, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's fine, you've helped a lot already, thank you. As far as it being GA ready - it's comprehensive, well sourced and best as I can tell neutral so in other words, it's something I can work with (if the problem was with one of those three then there'd be nothing to be done). Like I said, I'll try to fix the prose this weekend and see how far I can get. Volunteer Marek 12:46, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Pedro, too
I've looked at everything I have here, and I just don't have anything on South American royal names. I do remember being told that Brazilians (and South Americans generally) are fussier about royal names than we are, that they abbreviate them less ... but whether that means that "Pedro II" is justified throughout Afonso, Prince Imperial of Brazil, I have no idea. FWIW, Lecen says that none of his bios ever call the guy "Pedro". (And btw, thanks so much for your help with this one, the article is looking so much better.) - Dank (push to talk) 14:29, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry to appear here without invitation, but I'd like to remark that that's not something that "South Americans" are "fussier" about. I mostly use English-written books authored by either American or British historians and they follow this pattern [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]. Even books which are not devoted to Brazil have the same standard [8], [9]. --Lecen (talk) 14:48, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for the correction. (Btw, although "fussy" sometimes has a negative connotation, I apply it to myself all the time in a non-negative way ... there are some situations where a stricter standard tends to be applied. No offense toward South Americans intended.) - Dank (push to talk) 14:56, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- Don't worry. I know you were just kidding. P.S.: There is nothing wrong about being a South American (would someone feel bad about being European, North American?). --Lecen (talk) 15:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- There is indeed nothing wrong with being a South American, and I haven't seen anyone say that there is. Malleus Fatuorum 19:32, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Malleus, although I appreciate your effort to review the article (after all, you did it without having been asked to and even less been obliged to), I'd like to express my feeling that you could have been more polite and reasonable back there. We (nominators) did exactly everything you asked but in a few moments you were rude and even threatening. This is not how people should deal with each other not in here or anywhere else. I'm not criticizing you, but merely expressing my point of view. I hope that in the future, if for some reason we find ourselves again in the same article, our relationship is better and more supporting. I mean it. --Lecen (talk) 23:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- What about a bit of honesty Lecen? Without my help this article would not now be an FA. Why is it that so many attack the reviewers? You can rest assured that I won't be looking at any more of your FA nominations. Malleus Fatuorum 23:28, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- You missed the point, but after what I saw what you wrote about me in Dank's talk page, it doesn't matter anymore. --Lecen (talk) 00:22, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Are you a complete dickhead? Malleus Fatuorum 01:03, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've been to Brazil three times, and I've found it to be a bit of a pushy culture. I recall the time in Sao Paulo when I exited my hotel to find a crowd of (mostly) teenage girls, desirous of seeing a band who as it happens was staying at the same hotel. Some had been there overnight.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:13, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Are you a complete dickhead? Malleus Fatuorum 01:03, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- You missed the point, but after what I saw what you wrote about me in Dank's talk page, it doesn't matter anymore. --Lecen (talk) 00:22, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- What about a bit of honesty Lecen? Without my help this article would not now be an FA. Why is it that so many attack the reviewers? You can rest assured that I won't be looking at any more of your FA nominations. Malleus Fatuorum 23:28, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Malleus, although I appreciate your effort to review the article (after all, you did it without having been asked to and even less been obliged to), I'd like to express my feeling that you could have been more polite and reasonable back there. We (nominators) did exactly everything you asked but in a few moments you were rude and even threatening. This is not how people should deal with each other not in here or anywhere else. I'm not criticizing you, but merely expressing my point of view. I hope that in the future, if for some reason we find ourselves again in the same article, our relationship is better and more supporting. I mean it. --Lecen (talk) 23:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- There is indeed nothing wrong with being a South American, and I haven't seen anyone say that there is. Malleus Fatuorum 19:32, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
- Don't worry. I know you were just kidding. P.S.: There is nothing wrong about being a South American (would someone feel bad about being European, North American?). --Lecen (talk) 15:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for the correction. (Btw, although "fussy" sometimes has a negative connotation, I apply it to myself all the time in a non-negative way ... there are some situations where a stricter standard tends to be applied. No offense toward South Americans intended.) - Dank (push to talk) 14:56, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
TFA fun...
I've already reverted once so can you take a gander at diff and straighten this out? I know you do a bunch of stuff with my "that"s and I don't want the article to degenerate from your high standards...Ealdgyth - Talk 17:52, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- That edit looks OK to me Ealdgyth. My general rule of thumb is that "which" naturally follows a comma, whereas "that" doesn't. Malleus Fatuorum 19:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- Also, Malleus, Turban Head eagle, of which you were the GA reviewer prior to its peer review, has been nommed at FAC. FYI.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:58, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Its crap like this that will drive me away from Wikipedia someday... the absolute lack of ability to compromise and the fixation on some tiny detail and willingness to argue it into the ground. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:05, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- We each have our cross to bear, but it does get very wearing, I agree. Malleus Fatuorum 21:09, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, I've been following that... I figure I would just lose my temper if I even started opining there... on the plus side, I've got Geoffrey (archbishop of York) looking pretty nice, research wise. Now if poor Fairfax would garner some support ... that FAC is definitely a pointer to me that I should stick with bishops... I've also started reviewing Stephen of England, and it'll probably need a copyedit. The research seems excellent, with of course some quibbles, but you know I don't review on "polished prose". Ealdgyth - Talk 21:13, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- It does seem to be slow going with old Fairfax, but things seem generally slow everywhere. J3Mrs and I have had our Bradford Colliery masterpiece sitting at GAN for more than three weeks now. Frustration is going to force me back into GA reviewing, no matter how many nominators get upset. Malleus Fatuorum 22:39, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- I make just as many enemies at FAC as I do at GAN. Take the recent Afonso, Prince Imperial of Brazil for instance, an article I'd venture to say might have struggled had I not helped out at its FAC. But only opprobrium results, no thanks. Still, that's life here at Wikipedia. Malleus Fatuorum 22:54, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
- Do you think I went too far?[10] Malleus Fatuorum 01:13, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
- No. I forget which RfA it was, but one of your comments about a person's first year of uni is true. I never realized how much more work I had in-store. (Not to mention all of the outside of academics things that go on) I may put up the retired banner based on my lack of free time and motivation to do something that is so so close to the essays I need to write. --Guerillero | My Talk 01:23, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
- Those essays were the bane of my life. Get them done sooner rather than later, but not too soon. I had three to write in the last week of my third year, nightmare. Malleus Fatuorum 01:31, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
- Oh, and girls were also a very pleasant distraction. :-) Malleus Fatuorum 01:34, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
I've further expanded it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
- Quite a transformation from the article that was taken to AFD. Malleus Fatuorum 11:09, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for your adjustments.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:04, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Workhouse
What else do you need for this article? I enjoyed digging up more info on the Ship Canal, so would be happy to help out here as well. Parrot of Doom 16:00, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
- Great! The things I know still need doing are to make some mention and explanation in the architecture section of the "paupers' palaces" view expressed by some in the 19th century, the work section needs to be expanded and tied in with the spike mentioned in the lead, the lead probably needs to be rewritten, or at least substantially expanded, the diet section still looks a bit frugal, I'm not at all happy about the last paragraph of the living conditions section, which is largely uncited anyway ... in short I'm fairly comfortable about the first few sections and the final later developments section, but I think there are still some gaps in the sections in between. You'll probably see loads of other gaps as well as you look through. I was thinking of just doing enough to stand a chance at GAN, but if you're on board we might as well go the whole hog, with perhaps a stop-off at peer review, which really was quite helpful with the ship canal. Malleus Fatuorum 17:02, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
- And as with our wife selling magnum opus I'm very keen not to get pulled into having to deal with workhouses in Holland, workhouses in Germany, workhouses in France, workhouses in ScratchMyArse ... I don't even know if there were any in those countries, apart from Holland, but you get the point. Malleus Fatuorum 17:06, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Heinrich Rau
Hi Malleus, you've done a good job with the English improvement. My English is rather scanty and it was also welcome, when Volunteer Marek improved some things similarly at a former stage of the article.
I see only two passages, where I disagree a bit:
In the first of these passages I had written: After his recovery in military hospitals in Weimar and Ludwigsburg, he managed to get vacation and joined on 8 November 1918 the revolution in Stuttgart, where he participated in the events of the following days in Stuttgart's streets.
You write: After being treated in military hospitals in Weimar and Ludwigsburg, and while on leave from the army, Rau took part in the revolution in Stuttgart that began on 8 November 1918
Really, Ludwigsburg, (where the second hospital was) is only few kilometres away from Stuttgart. Rau get vacation on short notice on November 8th and joined the revolution in Stuttgart. Large demonstrations in Stuttgart started already on October 30th. They extended and accelerated during the following days and developed to a revolution. You can scarcely exactly say, that it began on November 8th.
In the second passage, concerning Johannes Rau's statement, you replaced the passage he was introduced there as "Prime Minister 'Heinrich Rau'", whereupon Johannes Rau ironically commented that Heinrich Rau was communist and he was not. by , he was introduced as "Prime Minister 'Heinrich Rau'", to which he responded by observing that Heinrich Rau was communist and he was not. Johannes Rau's response to this lapse, described by 'Der Spiegel' was clearly ironical. This should be mentioned.
This is my little critique on a good job. Henrig (talk) 18:31, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
- OK, apologies for my misunderstanding. I'll go back later this evening and sort out my cock-ups. Malleus Fatuorum 18:35, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
ANI notice
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User:Malleus Fatuorum and 9/11. Thank you. —— Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I haven't reviewed the situation enough to determine whether a sanction is actually merited, and I doubt that I will be doing so; there are far more intelligent things that I could be doing with my time. Nonetheless, as required by the decision before any action is taken: formal notice that September 11 attacks and all related pages fall under discretionary sanctions. NW (Talk) 02:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, discretionary sanctions have generally encompassed talk page discussion as well, so as to allow administrators to remove an editor from a discussion who is being unhelpful.
For example, someone who posted over and over again on Talk:AIDS, stating that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, probably shouldn't edit even the talk page. The same would go for someone who referred to Arabs as "sand niggers" on Talk:Six-Day War or something of the sort.There are a myriad of examples that make extending the sanctions regime to talk pages unfortunately necessary. NW (Talk) 02:42, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, discretionary sanctions have generally encompassed talk page discussion as well, so as to allow administrators to remove an editor from a discussion who is being unhelpful.
- Then do as you will, I couldn't care less. Malleus Fatuorum 02:51, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I wish to apologize for the poor wording of my last post. While I meant to give only obvious cases of why talk pages would fall under discretionary sanctions, which you appeared to be questioning, I pretty stupidly lumped together you telling someone to examine their conscience, if they had one, with calling someone an ethnic slur. I don't think your editing on that page has been optimal for certain, but it definitely isn't at that level. So again, my apologies. Also, as I said earlier, I certainly don't intend to be acting as an administrator in that topic area any time soon. NW (Talk) 07:14, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Then do as you will, I couldn't care less. Malleus Fatuorum 02:51, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
MalleusBot
Hey Malleus, I was thinking of creating a new bot... MalleusBot... it would notify you everytime that a new ANI notice was started against you, thereby saving the complainer the effort necessary to notify you... my biggest concern is that it might get so much activity that it might cause WP to crash ;-) ---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 07:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Why not have one that detects his being blocked, then unblocks him twelve minutes later ... save a lot of grief all around.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:49, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
What would you like to see?
Personally, I think refusing insert a link to CT as a See Also seems a bit unjust, but seeing we have pages all about the CTs, I'm wondering why we need to explore them at length on the attacks page. Today I was reading a jstor article about why Booth killed Lincoln (an older scholarly work which explores virtually every reasonable answer to its reasonable conclusion), but personally don't believe it deserves discussion on the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln page. BusterD (talk) 02:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think events have moved beyond any rational discussion, as I'm now apparently about to banned for disagreeing with Arthur Rubin. It will be a merciful release. Malleus Fatuorum 02:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well, it does take two people to strangle each other. (you folks are such a bad influence on me) But what would be appropriate, in your opinion? A subsection, a section by section addition? What would be the thesis statement of such insertion? I'm actually curious. I don't disrespect your position, and even as an eyewitness who lost a friend, I have doubts about the completeness and full veracity of some of the official reports myself. What would such insertion strive to say? Why would country of origin affect viewpoints so significantly? I want to understand better. BusterD (talk) 02:42, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not MF, but its not just country of origin. I'm quite American (Midwestern, but had friends in the city, etc etc) but any "historical event" that relies so heavily on newspaper accounts and only presents one side, when there are conspiracy theories, (even though I do NOT believe them) without mentioning them at all, looks wrong to this historian. It also seriously lacks a legacy section. I get that some folks want it to be purely about the attacks on that day themselves, but even one-off historical events should have a legacy section. And now, 10 years past the events, we are getting serious scholarly works that not just recount the events of that day, but also analyze the events. I tend to think we should be using those for the framework of events, and not newspaper accounts or the commission's account - we should rely on secondary accounts and at this time frame away from the events of that day ... the commission is starting to verge into primary source territory. I haven't opined on the pages there, because frankly, I don't care to be labeled a "CTer" or similar. There are plenty of other spots on Wikipedia where I can work without elevating my blood pressure (at least usually...). Ealdgyth - Talk 02:49, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not a simple story. We in the UK had suffered from American-funded terrorism for many years before 9/11, and to ignore that fact is dishonest. Malleus Fatuorum 02:50, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- What you mention is certainly important, but to my Scots-Irish New Yorker's eyes, not related to 9/11. Am I missing some connection? Thanks, User:Ealdgyth. Nice to see your datestamp. I've recently praised several editors for protecting the 9/11 cluster of pages from vandalism and controversy, mostly because I've avoided facing them myself, and largely trust the Wikipedia process of conflict and resolution. I'm not convinced the pages are pro-USA or even incorrect, but as the days roll by, more information comes to light. (I remember when I first read about the August 6 presidential briefing and 43's response to the CIA briefer; I also remember before the attacks the July 26, 2001 CBS news article which states Ashcroft has switched to private planes because of an unspecified threat.) I'm not drawing any conclusion here, but merely agreeing that newspapers will become poorer sources as better more scholarly works appear. BusterD (talk) 03:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Not to argue the issue Malleus, but what did the U.S. do? I only ask because I simply do not know. And to BusterD...part of the reason the 9/11 attacks article uses so many news refs is because the book based history is not nearly as broad as it will be in another 10 or 25 years...so though now 10 years ago, it really is by no means ancient history.--MONGO 03:31, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- You answer my question about Cirencester and I may then think about having anything more to do with you. Malleus Fatuorum 03:35, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Provisional IRA, MONGO. It's in the lead. Ucucha (talk) 03:40, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'd still like to know what the articles being discussed are missing which would satisfy you. Do you really want to insert the IRA stuff into the 9/11 stuff? Is that what you're holding out for? You know this subject better than I, but that seems a bridge too far. BusterD (talk) 04:16, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not a simple story. We in the UK had suffered from American-funded terrorism for many years before 9/11, and to ignore that fact is dishonest. Malleus Fatuorum 02:50, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I read it...it doesn't indicate that the U.S. Government was officially or even indirectly sponsoring this organization...only that some funding from various entities within the U.S. did provide money and weapons....--MONGO 04:26, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- MONGO, you've won, let's drop it now. The article will remain the pile of ordure it is. But it will never be a GA until you wake up. Malleus Fatuorum 04:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Okay...but the reason I asked is because I didn't know...and there is surely more to the issue than the article indicates, so I am surely still ignorant of this...but all I saw was that perhaps some private clandestine entities funded the IRA.--MONGO 04:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- MONGO, you've won, let's drop it now. The article will remain the pile of ordure it is. But it will never be a GA until you wake up. Malleus Fatuorum 04:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- MONGO, I am amazed you are editing articles on terrorism apparently with such little knowledge of the subject. PIRA regularly and openly fundraised in Eastern cities and together with Libyan help killed soldiers in Northern Ireland and civilians in the UK. Read up on the subject if you are going to participate in it. --John (talk) 05:16, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not a terrorism expert...never said I was...again, I don't see that the U.S. Government knowingly sponsored this group...all I see is that monies from within the U.S. did...this could and probably is private donations?--MONGO 05:30, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Really ironic to be having this conversation with you on a talk page of an encyclopedia which contains this article. Unless you are just trolling. It really might be worth reading some of the basic background on the subject of terrorism if you are going to edit articles on the subject. --John (talk) 07:00, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- So show me in THAT article any evidence that the U.S. Government was in any way involved in supporting the IRA or any of it's branches. Like I said, this is a private organization, yet you and Malleus seem to indicate that the U.S. Government is to blame...thats ludicrus.--MONGO 12:05, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Except that neither Malleus nor John said such a thing. Ucucha (talk) 12:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- To my reading, it certainly seems both implied such a link. I still haven't heard a thesis statement. While important background, I'm not seeing an assertion of connection between the conflicts. What would satisfy editors like Malleus and John? I'm sincerely curious. (MONGO, please pipe down. I'm trying to listen.) BusterD (talk) 12:21, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- As an outside observer (and one who was entirely too young during the time frame to pay much attention to the IRA recruiting efforts except to know that they took place) ... the fact that "officially" the US government deplored terrorism and was supposedly against it while allowing the IRA and others to openly fundraise (and it was pretty blatant, if I could notice it) makes it semi-official, at the worst. Yes, technically the US government didn't "fund" the IRA, but they sure as hell didn't do much to stop the (large) fundraising efforts. I didn't read the statements by John and Malleus as stating that there needed to be a specific mention of the whole NORAID issue in the 9/11 article, I think their point was more that there needs to be more than an American perspective on 9/11 in the main 9/11 article - and that to some in the UK (and I'm sure they have sources to back this up) the issue isn't nearly as cut and dried as the current article makes things out to be, especially in the aftermath section. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not just the fundraising - where the "government" issues included US visas, then required, but also refusal to extradite, various judicial & immigration decisions, & sometimes the behaviour & statements of US diplomats (never mind Congress). There's no doubt the British government found the US government, on several levels, very unhelpful on terrorism for a long time. This despite an American passer-by being killed in the Harrods bombing and so on. Johnbod (talk) 12:46, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- And then the immediate, embracing (and perhaps self-righteous) pivot the day of 9/11. OK, now I'm getting a better sense of the roots of disagreement. I know this issue is like the tar baby, and that's one of the reasons I've avoided discussing it (or perhaps making any effort to contemplate it) for so long. BusterD (talk) 12:52, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- It's not just the fundraising - where the "government" issues included US visas, then required, but also refusal to extradite, various judicial & immigration decisions, & sometimes the behaviour & statements of US diplomats (never mind Congress). There's no doubt the British government found the US government, on several levels, very unhelpful on terrorism for a long time. This despite an American passer-by being killed in the Harrods bombing and so on. Johnbod (talk) 12:46, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- As an outside observer (and one who was entirely too young during the time frame to pay much attention to the IRA recruiting efforts except to know that they took place) ... the fact that "officially" the US government deplored terrorism and was supposedly against it while allowing the IRA and others to openly fundraise (and it was pretty blatant, if I could notice it) makes it semi-official, at the worst. Yes, technically the US government didn't "fund" the IRA, but they sure as hell didn't do much to stop the (large) fundraising efforts. I didn't read the statements by John and Malleus as stating that there needed to be a specific mention of the whole NORAID issue in the 9/11 article, I think their point was more that there needs to be more than an American perspective on 9/11 in the main 9/11 article - and that to some in the UK (and I'm sure they have sources to back this up) the issue isn't nearly as cut and dried as the current article makes things out to be, especially in the aftermath section. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- To my reading, it certainly seems both implied such a link. I still haven't heard a thesis statement. While important background, I'm not seeing an assertion of connection between the conflicts. What would satisfy editors like Malleus and John? I'm sincerely curious. (MONGO, please pipe down. I'm trying to listen.) BusterD (talk) 12:21, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Except that neither Malleus nor John said such a thing. Ucucha (talk) 12:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- So show me in THAT article any evidence that the U.S. Government was in any way involved in supporting the IRA or any of it's branches. Like I said, this is a private organization, yet you and Malleus seem to indicate that the U.S. Government is to blame...thats ludicrus.--MONGO 12:05, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Really ironic to be having this conversation with you on a talk page of an encyclopedia which contains this article. Unless you are just trolling. It really might be worth reading some of the basic background on the subject of terrorism if you are going to edit articles on the subject. --John (talk) 07:00, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not a terrorism expert...never said I was...again, I don't see that the U.S. Government knowingly sponsored this group...all I see is that monies from within the U.S. did...this could and probably is private donations?--MONGO 05:30, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- MONGO, I am amazed you are editing articles on terrorism apparently with such little knowledge of the subject. PIRA regularly and openly fundraised in Eastern cities and together with Libyan help killed soldiers in Northern Ireland and civilians in the UK. Read up on the subject if you are going to participate in it. --John (talk) 05:16, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Malleus is brave indeed at going into the 9/11 article. I avoid such things like the plague, although that is mildly insulting to WIKIPROJECT:PLAGUE.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:56, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- You note I'm only commenting on the issue here and on John's page.. you couldn't lure me onto those pages with a ten-foot pole, especially after watching the GAR ... toxic doesn't begin to describe it. I thought academic disputes got nasty... (And the worst part about the whole set of pages, is that the folks who regularly edit there can't see that the atmosphere is toxic and that this is why so many more "rational" editors won't touch the place) Ealdgyth - Talk 13:02, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I wouldn't have touched it myself, except that I fundamentally disagreed with its promotion to GA. The GAR makes very revealing reading, starting off as it does with abuse directed towards me from MONGO and several others, none of whom have either apologised or been sanctioned in any way. And after having been added to the ArbCom sanctions log, which I find rather insulting, I certainly won't be having anything else to do with the article, that's for sure. Malleus Fatuorum 13:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Being one of the parties in that arbitration (which, as you should know, does not imply "guilt", but only involvement in the initial conflict), I'm automatically considered warned. You should get used to it. (And, for what it's worth, I don't think it's a GA, either, but for completely different reasons than you don't think it's a GA.) — Arthur Rubin (talk) 14:09, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I wouldn't have touched it myself, except that I fundamentally disagreed with its promotion to GA. The GAR makes very revealing reading, starting off as it does with abuse directed towards me from MONGO and several others, none of whom have either apologised or been sanctioned in any way. And after having been added to the ArbCom sanctions log, which I find rather insulting, I certainly won't be having anything else to do with the article, that's for sure. Malleus Fatuorum 13:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Well, for the record, I certainly have no opposition to an expansion in article space about U.S. Governments' lack of assistance on this matter or their turning a blind eye to it, or even more egregiously, their ignoring it/thereby condoning it behavior. It is deplorable that the U.S. didn't force these fund raising efforts to be ended and to have assisted U.K. authorities in the apprehension of wanted fugitives. I don't know what the sourcing is for this, but I imagine there is plenty available. I wonder if there were any congressional hearings on this matter...one would have thought so.--MONGO 14:31, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Ever been there? Just curious.--MONGO 02:44, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Many times. Why do you ask? 02:45, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I had a brief flash of something that looked like a newspaper report that MONGO seemed to have posted here, but it appears to have been deleted now. I'd very much like to know what it was. Malleus Fatuorum 03:00, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Oh, my fathers family was from there, almost 400 years ago. Someday I will visit it before I die...till then I have to rely on street view at google maps.--MONGO 03:25, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I obviously can't see deleted content, but I would ask any honest admin to let me know what it was that MONGO posted. Malleus Fatuorum 03:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Nothing has been deleted as far as I can see. Ucucha (talk) 03:37, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Nor I, although I'm not an admin. I see just three posts to this talk page, and all three of them are still on the page. Weird edit glitch? Ealdgyth - Talk 03:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Might be, but I definitely saw a flash of a newspaper report. And the question is rather strange, because I've spent a lot of time working in Cirencester. If was picking a random UK town I doubt it would be Cirencester. Malleus Fatuorum 03:42, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- It seems on my page I see all the posts for this section...your response to my initial quiry wasn't fully signed...it only had a time stamp...--MONGO 03:50, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Oh, my fathers family was from there, almost 400 years ago. Someday I will visit it before I die...till then I have to rely on street view at google maps.--MONGO 03:25, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't believe you. Malleus Fatuorum 04:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well, its true...I think it was more like 1653 when he came to the colonies...certificates indicate my ancestor was christened in Cirencester in 1635.--MONGO 04:13, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- One fairly long shopping street, rather quaint, but nothing to make a special trip for, and the parking some distance from the shops, and both the parking and the shops rather pricey. That's the way it was when I was there in 2004, I doubt it has changed much.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:16, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well, its true...I think it was more like 1653 when he came to the colonies...certificates indicate my ancestor was christened in Cirencester in 1635.--MONGO 04:13, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- I don't believe you. Malleus Fatuorum 04:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Might be, but I definitely saw a flash of a newspaper report. And the question is rather strange, because I've spent a lot of time working in Cirencester. If was picking a random UK town I doubt it would be Cirencester. Malleus Fatuorum 03:42, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
- Nor I, although I'm not an admin. I see just three posts to this talk page, and all three of them are still on the page. Weird edit glitch? Ealdgyth - Talk 03:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Hobey Baker
Would you mind revisiting WP:Featured article candidates/Hobey Baker/archive1, where you opposed on prose? Ucucha (talk) 14:49, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Request for enforcement
This is notification that I've filed a request for enforcement against you per WP:ARB911.[11] A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)