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==Let my people go (please)== |
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Hi Jimbo, Hope you don't mind if I call you Jimbo and not Mr. Wales, but I've been working very hard for over three years now to present to the world the origins your culture on your lovely project here and never really introduced myself, but always admired you and assumed a connection with common goals. What I'm here to ask you to let my people go. By "my people", I am referring to the lines of [[Egyptian royal architect]]s, [[grailkeeper]]s and [[Fisher King]]s (up to [[Alain (Fisher King)]]) that have recently been deleted from your encyclopedia. I would like them restored as soon as possible please, or else you will get [[Plagues of Egypt|Water]] and then probably [[Frogs]] (or something symbolically a bit like frogs). Sorry to appear to threaten and all, see it's not me really but 'im upstairs, he just chucks me down here every few years to act out this little skit. In all other respects, am loving your work! Enjoy the water! smiles, Px [[User:Moses Thebed|Moses Thebed]] ([[User talk:Moses Thebed|talk]]) 14:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:47, 17 April 2013
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French intelligence forcing sysop to delete article
Wow look at the article I just found: [1]. Apparently french intelligence forced an admin to delete an article. What is the WMF going to do? nerdfighter 18:32, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- See "Wikimedia Foundation elaborates on recent demand by French governmental agency to remove Wikipedia content" (French wiki, but in English) 88.104.27.58 (talk) 18:49, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- Here's the quote from Wikimedia France.
It's a concern. 64.40.54.111 (talk) 21:22, 6 April 2013 (UTC)the DCRI summoned a Wikipedia volunteer in their offices on April 4th. This volunteer, which was one of those having access to the tools that allow the deletion of pages, was forced to delete the article while in the DCRI offices, on the understanding that he would have been held in custody and prosecuted if he did not comply. Under pressure, he had no other choice than to delete the article, despite explaining to the DCRI this is not how Wikipedia works. He warned the other sysops that trying to undelete the article would engage their responsability before the law.
This volunteer had no link with that article, having never edited it and not even knowing of its existence before entering the DCRI offices. He was chosen and summoned because he was easily identifiable, given his regular promotional actions of Wikipedia and Wikimedia projects in France.
— Christophe Henner, Wikimedia France
- I doubt one has much to be concerned about there. John lilburne (talk) 21:48, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- The equivalent English Wikipedia article (Military radio station of Pierre-sur-Haute) has been nominated for DYK. This reminds me very much of the situation we had a couple of years ago with the Seal of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. As on that occasion, I've suggested that the DYK nomination should be accepted but its publication be delayed for a couple of months to allow the controversy to subside. It's being discussed at WT:DYK#Controversial self referential DYK nomination. Prioryman (talk) 09:01, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Another DYK: For many years, the BT Tower was not shown on Ordnance Survey maps, despite being one of the tallest and most prominent buildings in London.[2]--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:00, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- The fact that both you, and Wikipedia's BT Tower article, repeat that piece of nonsense (in reality, a lie made up by Kate Hoey in 1991) says more about Wikipedia's preference for anecdotes over facts, than it does about any alleged attempted cover-up. It takes all of 10 seconds on a map archive (old-maps, for instance; the coordinates are 529121,181972) to see that the Post Office Tower (as it was then) has appeared on Ordnance Survey maps since it was built and no effort was made to conceal the fact that it was a strategic location even at the height of the cold war; the 1968 OS map, for instance, has it labelled as "Telephone exchange and radar tower". Getting facts wrong in good faith when they're difficult to verify is understandable; repeating lies when they're so easy to refute is inexcusable. – iridescent 22:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- The claim is widely repeated, and I don't think it's disprovable from old-maps.co.uk. An old OS printed map, if you have access to it, would be a source worth sticking in the article. Rd232 talk 12:27, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- This map. One of the 1:1250 series. I'm sure somebody can identify its publication details. — Hex (❝?!❞) 14:32, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- On this 1982 London tourist map, it is descibed as the Telecom Tower.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:08, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- This map. One of the 1:1250 series. I'm sure somebody can identify its publication details. — Hex (❝?!❞) 14:32, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- The claim is widely repeated, and I don't think it's disprovable from old-maps.co.uk. An old OS printed map, if you have access to it, would be a source worth sticking in the article. Rd232 talk 12:27, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- The fact that both you, and Wikipedia's BT Tower article, repeat that piece of nonsense (in reality, a lie made up by Kate Hoey in 1991) says more about Wikipedia's preference for anecdotes over facts, than it does about any alleged attempted cover-up. It takes all of 10 seconds on a map archive (old-maps, for instance; the coordinates are 529121,181972) to see that the Post Office Tower (as it was then) has appeared on Ordnance Survey maps since it was built and no effort was made to conceal the fact that it was a strategic location even at the height of the cold war; the 1968 OS map, for instance, has it labelled as "Telephone exchange and radar tower". Getting facts wrong in good faith when they're difficult to verify is understandable; repeating lies when they're so easy to refute is inexcusable. – iridescent 22:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Another DYK: For many years, the BT Tower was not shown on Ordnance Survey maps, despite being one of the tallest and most prominent buildings in London.[2]--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:00, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- French secret service accused of censorship over Wikipedia page. The Streisand effect in action once again.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- I personally feel that this incident would justify a blackout protest. It seems to me to be more serious than the incidents that have motivated previous blackouts. Looie496 (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Support blackout protest, and this thread should be re-created as an request for comment and placed in centralized discussion. Wer900 • talk 17:50, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose Don't feed the french intelligence.. nerdfighter 18:00, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Come on, we're not going to have a blackout over this. It would be massive overkill, frankly. This has the feel of a one-off incident, not a systematic threat like SOPA was. The Streisandification of this article is likely to be its own disincentive to any public body thinking of doing anything like that in future. Prioryman (talk) 18:08, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
(ec)Woah woah, take a step back folks before things get out of hand. Obviously this is a very serious issue: which is exactly why it needs to be left to the foundation to deal with at the moment before we go making plans for this and that--Jac16888 Talk 18:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- I think the WMF's top priority should be to ensure that there are ways for any admin in any country pressured in this way to secretly but effectively let them know if they are forced to do something under duress, that can reliably lead to a "coincidental" response by well-meaning volunteers that happens to undo the forced action without anyone knowing that the admin told anyone. The French mistake, which is highly unexpected, could be said to be that they forced the admin to do this without threatening him into silence about it. That differs from the way that National Security Letters on US ISPs work, for example. We should consider that France might differ from other countries only in this omission, rather than in the request, unless proven otherwise. Wnt (talk) 19:04, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- That's an interesting possibility. Could it be that this has in fact happened before, but it never came to public attention? I can't imagine it happening on the English Wikipedia, but I can certainly envisage it happening on other-language wikis where admins are located in undemocratic countries (Russia and China come to mind). Prioryman (talk) 19:08, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- But definitely not on Kazahk wikipedia.Volunteer Marek 19:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Why do you say that? I think it could easily happen on the Kazakh Wikipedia. Everyone who is working courageously to build a quality NPOV encyclopedia in countries which do not respect fundamental freedoms is at constant risk of this sort of thing. The shocking thing about the French incident is that one does not expect this kind of nonsense from a generally rights-respecting country like France.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:50, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- I guess it could happen on the Kazakh Wikipedia but seeing how much Kazakhstan respects fundamental freedoms and the close relationship they have with the WMF I'm sure the French are much worse. A bit more serious: when stuff like this happens with a country like France it's exposed, picked up on, and everyone becomes aware of it. When it happens with countries like... Kazakhstan (and yes, probably China and Russia too), there's really no one there to pick up on it and you don't even know it's happening. In other words, it's not shocking. In places like France, corruption happens and it gets caught (sometimes) and everyone becomes outraged (as they should). In 80% of the rest of the world, corruption happens and nobody really cares. But you're drawing the wrong lesson from that.Volunteer Marek 01:33, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- That's an interesting lie, to say the word "WMF" and link to an independent organization. There is no relationship between the WMF and Kazakhstan at all, and I have and will continue to speak loudly against censorship and intimidation in all countries. Trying to smear the WMF like that, with a dishonest link, is disgusting, and you should apologize for it. Notice, too, how fundamentally dishonest your sarcasm is. "seeing how much Kazakhstan respects fundamental freedoms" - the implication here is that either I, or the WMF, has in some way been soft on Kazakhstan's violations of the principles of human rights. That's just an absolute stone cold lie. The important thing for people to wonder, when confronted with such a blatant lie, is this: what is the motive of the smear? What is the motive of the liar? Why don't you explain that to us all - why are you insinuating things that are provably and demonstrably false? Did I, or the WMF, ever say or imply the Kazakhstan "respects fundamental freedoms"? No.
- If all you wanted to say was "One reason this case has gotten a lot of mainstream media attention is that it's so surprising. If it happened in an authoritarian country, there would be less interest, and that's a shame" then I would chip in and say: that's exactly right, and that's exactly why I spend so much of my time trying to work for freedom of speech in every country of the world. That you utterly fail to appreciate or understand why attacking me on this idiotic and dishonest basis that is wrong is a huge flaw.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 23:35, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Well, the Wikipedia article I linked to says "Wales gave his own grant to WikiBilim as a contribution to the development of the Kazakh Wikipedia.[2] The Wikimedia Foundation has given the organisation a $16,600 grant raised from donations to the Wikipedia site. Contributors to Wikipedia in the West have raised the question of whether the foundation and Wales should be supporting WikiBilim in light of the backing it has received from the Kazakh government, which has been responsible for closing down independent media outlets in what Human Rights Watch describes as a "growing crackdown on free speech".
- I was incorrect in implying that WMF has a close connection with Kazakhstan though, you're right about that and I'm happy to apologize for being imprecise. But there is a sort of transitivity here - Kazakhstan government appears to have a close connection with WikiBilim and WikiBilim appears to have some relationship with WMF. I mean, I guess one could argue that WikiBilim is an independent organization. Or that the connection between WMF and WikiBilim is tenuous. Ok. That should probably be clarified in the relevant Wikipedia article, as, given the current wording, I don't think that's how an average reader would perceive it.Volunteer Marek 01:59, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for the apology. I have said in no uncertain terms both publicly and privately that the government of Kazakhstan should not expect to be able to control Wikipedia. I have also said that I think it is problematic that they have received funding from the sovereign wealth fund of Kazakhstan. But I've also done what many others have not - I've actually talked with Wikibilim about their stance on the issue and how they deal with it. In short: they don't edit Wikipedia directly in an official capacity (some of their employees do edit at home because, naturally enough, they are free culture activists), they have only 2 employees who have anything to do with Wikipedia at all as a part of their job duties, and their work in support of Wikipedia involves primarily going out to conferences of academics to encourage participation. I'm very concerned about issues of freedom of speech, and I find the Kazakh government's human rights record to be very concerning overall. But I can also understand and empathize with the desires of volunteers working under difficult conditions to be able to fund projects, and I can understand that in environments like Kazakhstan it's hard to do anything without government funding or approval of some kind. The important thing is that any funding that is received in that way must come with no strings attached, and the overall situation has to be monitored carefully to ensure that the things people like me worry about don't actually happen. I think it's very very wrong for people to blindly swallow the nonsense implications of critics who state the facts in a very misleading and sometimes even flatly dishonest manner.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Jimbo, you clearly state that "I think it is problematic that they [WikiBilim] have received funding from the sovereign wealth fund of Kazakhstan". You also say that "I've actually talked with Wikibilim about their stance on the issue and how they deal with it". You also say that "I find the Kazakh government's human rights record to be very concerning overall". Here is a question for you. Can you point to even one public statement or utterance or diff of yours -- prior to December 15, 2012 -- that would underscore your personal and focused concern about WikiBilim's relationship with the Kazakh government or its sovereign wealth fund? I provide that date as the cut-off, because that is about when the so-called "nonsense" critics brought the Kazakhstan situation to your attention, and there doesn't seem to be any record of your ever having expressed any of the concerns you describe passionately above, prior to the "nonsense" being brought to light. I will flatly apologize if you can find one, just one, unequivocal statement of yours that expresses concern about WikiBilim and the Kazakh authorities, from before December 15, 2012. - 2001:558:1400:10:C15D:99B9:C1C1:6CF8 (talk) 20:10, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I don't understand your question. How could I have commented on WikiBilim's receiving funding from the Kazakh government before it was brought to my attention? If you are asking why I never publicly criticized Kazakhstan's poor track record on freedom of speech before, I can only say that I doubt if I've ever publicly commented on, say, Belarus's poor track record either. I have said, clearly and plainly, that I strongly support the fundamental right of freedom of expression for everyone on the planet, but I haven't gotten around to specifically commenting on every single country in the world. If WikiBilim had asked me before they took that money if I thought it was a good idea, I would have said no, I think it's a mistake. I would have tried to get them the money from a better source. The "nonsense" that I refer to is not that people raised the question - there are, as I have said, many reasons to question things like this, and many concerns that have to be addressed. The nonsense involved such things as dark hints that Tony Blair had something to do with it, or that I might personally be benefitting from it, etc. That was then, and remains now, complete crazy talk.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:07, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Jimbo, I'm sorry if the question was so confusing that you weren't able to understand it. Let's try again.
- June 16, 2011 - WikiBilim receives a letter of support from the CEO of the Samruk-Kazyna Foundation, providing financial sponsorship to WikiBilim. A press conference announces this to the world, with participation of Ting Chen, then the Chair of your Wikimedia Foundation, Jimbo.
- June 20, 2011 - The Wikimedia Foundation holds a board meeting via IRC. Ting Chen and you were both in attendance. Did Ting Chen mention his trip to Kazakhstan or the press conference that had taken place just days before?
- August 3, 2011 - The Wikimedia Foundation holds another board meeting, this time in person, in Haifa. Ting Chen and you were both in attendance. There was a "Personal Activities Update", where "each Board member was granted 2 minutes to provide their colleagues with a personal and Wikimedia-related work update." Did Ting Chen mention Kazakhstan? Did you mention your plan to announce a "Wikipedian of the Year" award at the next few days' Wikimania summit in Haifa?
- August 4-7, 2011 - You named the head of WikiBilim as "Wikipedian of the Year" and awarded him $5,000 of your own money. At this point, did you still not know "WikiBilim's receiving funding from the Kazakh government" because this was still "before it was brought to your attention"? In other words, Jimbo, is it possible that you selected such a prestigious award as "Wikipedian of the Year" without investigating and learning how the recipient's organization was being funded? Did you ask Ting Chen about his participation in the press conference about 7 weeks prior, to learn more about WikiBilim, to which you were about to hand a $5,000 check; if not, why not; or were you not aware of Ting Chen's participation in the Kazakh press conference?
- Could you please comment on which of the following is more true -- (A) At the time you awarded Rauan Kenzhekhanuly (of WikiBilim) the "Wikipedian of the Year" award, you had only cursorily understood the connections between his organization and funding from the Kazakhstan government, but you went ahead with the award anyway; or, (B) At the time you awarded Rauan Kenzhekhanuly the award, you had no understanding of any possible connection between his organization and funding from the Kazakhstan government? Note that neither of these premisses nor the questions above mention Tony Blair or any other red herring subjects, so please just address the questions without trying to widen the discussion. Clarification of these points would help for some of us not to be called "liars" by you when we discuss matters that we didn't have visibility into. Thank you. - 2001:558:1400:10:B5EB:9417:83C0:16AC (talk) 13:37, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Neither of these is precisely right, but it doesn't matter. I would give the award again today, proudly.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:39, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
- Jimbo, I'm sorry if the question was so confusing that you weren't able to understand it. Let's try again.
- I'm afraid I don't understand your question. How could I have commented on WikiBilim's receiving funding from the Kazakh government before it was brought to my attention? If you are asking why I never publicly criticized Kazakhstan's poor track record on freedom of speech before, I can only say that I doubt if I've ever publicly commented on, say, Belarus's poor track record either. I have said, clearly and plainly, that I strongly support the fundamental right of freedom of expression for everyone on the planet, but I haven't gotten around to specifically commenting on every single country in the world. If WikiBilim had asked me before they took that money if I thought it was a good idea, I would have said no, I think it's a mistake. I would have tried to get them the money from a better source. The "nonsense" that I refer to is not that people raised the question - there are, as I have said, many reasons to question things like this, and many concerns that have to be addressed. The nonsense involved such things as dark hints that Tony Blair had something to do with it, or that I might personally be benefitting from it, etc. That was then, and remains now, complete crazy talk.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:07, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Jimbo, you clearly state that "I think it is problematic that they [WikiBilim] have received funding from the sovereign wealth fund of Kazakhstan". You also say that "I've actually talked with Wikibilim about their stance on the issue and how they deal with it". You also say that "I find the Kazakh government's human rights record to be very concerning overall". Here is a question for you. Can you point to even one public statement or utterance or diff of yours -- prior to December 15, 2012 -- that would underscore your personal and focused concern about WikiBilim's relationship with the Kazakh government or its sovereign wealth fund? I provide that date as the cut-off, because that is about when the so-called "nonsense" critics brought the Kazakhstan situation to your attention, and there doesn't seem to be any record of your ever having expressed any of the concerns you describe passionately above, prior to the "nonsense" being brought to light. I will flatly apologize if you can find one, just one, unequivocal statement of yours that expresses concern about WikiBilim and the Kazakh authorities, from before December 15, 2012. - 2001:558:1400:10:C15D:99B9:C1C1:6CF8 (talk) 20:10, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for the apology. I have said in no uncertain terms both publicly and privately that the government of Kazakhstan should not expect to be able to control Wikipedia. I have also said that I think it is problematic that they have received funding from the sovereign wealth fund of Kazakhstan. But I've also done what many others have not - I've actually talked with Wikibilim about their stance on the issue and how they deal with it. In short: they don't edit Wikipedia directly in an official capacity (some of their employees do edit at home because, naturally enough, they are free culture activists), they have only 2 employees who have anything to do with Wikipedia at all as a part of their job duties, and their work in support of Wikipedia involves primarily going out to conferences of academics to encourage participation. I'm very concerned about issues of freedom of speech, and I find the Kazakh government's human rights record to be very concerning overall. But I can also understand and empathize with the desires of volunteers working under difficult conditions to be able to fund projects, and I can understand that in environments like Kazakhstan it's hard to do anything without government funding or approval of some kind. The important thing is that any funding that is received in that way must come with no strings attached, and the overall situation has to be monitored carefully to ensure that the things people like me worry about don't actually happen. I think it's very very wrong for people to blindly swallow the nonsense implications of critics who state the facts in a very misleading and sometimes even flatly dishonest manner.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I guess it could happen on the Kazakh Wikipedia but seeing how much Kazakhstan respects fundamental freedoms and the close relationship they have with the WMF I'm sure the French are much worse. A bit more serious: when stuff like this happens with a country like France it's exposed, picked up on, and everyone becomes aware of it. When it happens with countries like... Kazakhstan (and yes, probably China and Russia too), there's really no one there to pick up on it and you don't even know it's happening. In other words, it's not shocking. In places like France, corruption happens and it gets caught (sometimes) and everyone becomes outraged (as they should). In 80% of the rest of the world, corruption happens and nobody really cares. But you're drawing the wrong lesson from that.Volunteer Marek 01:33, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Why do you say that? I think it could easily happen on the Kazakh Wikipedia. Everyone who is working courageously to build a quality NPOV encyclopedia in countries which do not respect fundamental freedoms is at constant risk of this sort of thing. The shocking thing about the French incident is that one does not expect this kind of nonsense from a generally rights-respecting country like France.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:50, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- But definitely not on Kazahk wikipedia.Volunteer Marek 19:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- That's an interesting possibility. Could it be that this has in fact happened before, but it never came to public attention? I can't imagine it happening on the English Wikipedia, but I can certainly envisage it happening on other-language wikis where admins are located in undemocratic countries (Russia and China come to mind). Prioryman (talk) 19:08, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- That would be a good example of a lesson not being learned. Presumably the Kazakh government could rather easily go through Wikibilim's member list and find out who the admins are, and I imagine we might not even hear about it if their security services did something like the French did, or worse. Your endorsement might give some volunteers a false sense of security: how would you feel about yourself if something terrible happens? --SB_Johnny | talk✌ 13:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
- Can you help me with the logic here? If I don't give him an award, he (or they) is (are) magically protected from persecution? That makes no sense. If anything, the opposite is true. The Kazakh government is well aware that I know Rauan, that I support the independence of the Kazakh language Wikipedia, and that I'll bring international pressure to bear if they do anything. Will that stop them? Not necessarily. But nothing within my power can absolutely stop them, I'm sorry to report. But suggesting, as you do, with no evidence or even coherent logic, that me giving Rauan an award creates danger for him is just scaremongering. He's a human being, he speaks perfectly good English, so why don't you ask him yourself rather than engaging in nonsensical speculation like this?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:23, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
- Apparently several journalists have tried -- Rauan ignored them. Back to you, Mr. Wales......76.191.143.69 (talk) 19:52, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
- Still no comment? Y'know, some Kazakh-native contributors to the Kazakh Wikipedia don't realize that it's being controlled by the Kazakh government, so they could get into trouble for editing it. Has that ever occurred to you, Jimbo? 76.191.143.69 (talk) 00:57, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- Rauan isn't the one at risk, since he seems to have fairly good connections in the regime. It's the people on the membership list, the people who won the laptops, and so on that are being put at risk of "extra scrutiny". --SB_Johnny | talk✌ 09:36, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- Just to clarify here: while your intentions were admirable here (growing open culture in places like Kazakhstan is absolutely a good thing), I had up until now thought it was just that you hadn't vetted his quite as well as you should have. If what you're saying is that you'd do it all over again even knowing what you know now, it's far more concerning. --SB_Johnny | talk✌ 11:29, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- Apparently several journalists have tried -- Rauan ignored them. Back to you, Mr. Wales......76.191.143.69 (talk) 19:52, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
- Can you help me with the logic here? If I don't give him an award, he (or they) is (are) magically protected from persecution? That makes no sense. If anything, the opposite is true. The Kazakh government is well aware that I know Rauan, that I support the independence of the Kazakh language Wikipedia, and that I'll bring international pressure to bear if they do anything. Will that stop them? Not necessarily. But nothing within my power can absolutely stop them, I'm sorry to report. But suggesting, as you do, with no evidence or even coherent logic, that me giving Rauan an award creates danger for him is just scaremongering. He's a human being, he speaks perfectly good English, so why don't you ask him yourself rather than engaging in nonsensical speculation like this?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:23, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
- That would be a good example of a lesson not being learned. Presumably the Kazakh government could rather easily go through Wikibilim's member list and find out who the admins are, and I imagine we might not even hear about it if their security services did something like the French did, or worse. Your endorsement might give some volunteers a false sense of security: how would you feel about yourself if something terrible happens? --SB_Johnny | talk✌ 13:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
It's also a very interesting "non-answer." If there are parts that aren't "precisely right", perhaps the "precisely right" versions should be out there. Wikipedia has simply become big enough that such evasions (or soft answers if you prefer) really shouldn't be acceptable. That's one of the disconnects I've noticed in my time here. Claiming to be a repository of all knowledge brings with it increased responsibility to be transparent and forthright...things that appear to be lacking in key areas here from my vantage point as a lowly editor/volunteer. Between this and the Gibraltar issues (along with a laundry list of other growing pains and adjustment issues) it would seem that there are deeper problems here. Intothatdarkness 14:15, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
It would be very helpful for Jimmy Wales to communicate clearly when he became aware of Ting Chen's participation in the Kazakh press conference on June 16, 2011, and when did Wales become aware that the Samruk-Kazyna Foundation also participated in that press conference. Without his answer to that question, we still have a bit of cognitive dissonance regarding his statements about the award of the Wikipedian of the Year to a former Kazakh government official in August 2011. - 2001:558:1400:10:2178:275E:1A53:BF78 (talk) 13:44, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- You and Greg Kohs need to hang out more together. Correcting minor spelling mistakes of others and feeling all smug about it as a way of building heavy concrete bridges into a shiny new tomorrow where Wikipediocracy people and anti-Wikipediocracy people walk hand in hand together singing songs about how you get to make money of a public encyclopedia because you guys are such gosh darn good spellers.Volunteer Marek 01:33, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Jimbo, I've started a straw poll to propose that the appearance of this article on DYK (if it is accepted) should be delayed by three months from the date that the nomination is accepted. Please see WT:DYK#Proposal to delay publication of Pierre-sur-Haute DYK for three months and feel free to add your views. Prioryman (talk) 06:24, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'm happy to report that I've voted oppose on your proposal, and that it appears to be going down in well-deserved flames. There is no place in our work to permit this kind of intimidation and we need to put the governments of the world on notice that you don't easily censor Wikipedia and that we will fight for our values.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 23:46, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Well, this is rather different from your attitude towards the FBI seal issue back in 2010. Let me quote you on that: "Here is what will happen if we run this DYK on the front page: nothing much. The FBI won't do anything new or different. The press might or might not notice, and if they do notice, it'll lead to a couple of new stories at most. I'm not at all concerned about pressure from the FBI or the press - it isn't about that. It's really more about preserving the idea of NPOV and really taking it seriously. It's recognizing that running this on the front page *in reaction to a news story about the Wikimedia Foundation and the FBI* is not our style. If we were a tabloid newpaper, we'd likely take up the (very popular, as far as I have seen) cause of fighting the FBI on this, poking them about it daily. But we aren't like that, and we shouldn't be like that." (User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 63#Here is what will happen if we run this) You also said "I rather said the opposite: posting the contested logo to the front page would be clearly political, and Wikipedia should not be political." Yet here you are making an explicitly political argument for running the DYK. Your attitude has changed a bit, hasn't it? I guess this means you now consider Wikipedia to be "a tabloid newspaper" and are no longer interested in "preserving the idea of NPOV and really taking it seriously". Prioryman (talk) 00:00, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I do not consider Wikipedia to be a tabloid newspaper, I am am 100% in favor of preserving the idea of NPOV and really taking it seriously. And yes, I have changed my mind on this issue to some extent. I'll note as well that the FBI sending an idiotic takedown demand is a very very different matter from summoning a volunteer to the office of a security service and intimidating them into deleting something under threat of being detained. Had the DCRI kept this to wrangling with the WMF through lawyers, I'd say: there's nothing to get excited about. But they crossed a line that I find shocks the conscience, and so in this case, I do not think that a presumptive ban on the DYK hook is warranted.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:03, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Is Wikimedia's legal team looking at the legality of the agent's/agency's behaviour? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 04:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I do not consider Wikipedia to be a tabloid newspaper, I am am 100% in favor of preserving the idea of NPOV and really taking it seriously. And yes, I have changed my mind on this issue to some extent. I'll note as well that the FBI sending an idiotic takedown demand is a very very different matter from summoning a volunteer to the office of a security service and intimidating them into deleting something under threat of being detained. Had the DCRI kept this to wrangling with the WMF through lawyers, I'd say: there's nothing to get excited about. But they crossed a line that I find shocks the conscience, and so in this case, I do not think that a presumptive ban on the DYK hook is warranted.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:03, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Well, this is rather different from your attitude towards the FBI seal issue back in 2010. Let me quote you on that: "Here is what will happen if we run this DYK on the front page: nothing much. The FBI won't do anything new or different. The press might or might not notice, and if they do notice, it'll lead to a couple of new stories at most. I'm not at all concerned about pressure from the FBI or the press - it isn't about that. It's really more about preserving the idea of NPOV and really taking it seriously. It's recognizing that running this on the front page *in reaction to a news story about the Wikimedia Foundation and the FBI* is not our style. If we were a tabloid newpaper, we'd likely take up the (very popular, as far as I have seen) cause of fighting the FBI on this, poking them about it daily. But we aren't like that, and we shouldn't be like that." (User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 63#Here is what will happen if we run this) You also said "I rather said the opposite: posting the contested logo to the front page would be clearly political, and Wikipedia should not be political." Yet here you are making an explicitly political argument for running the DYK. Your attitude has changed a bit, hasn't it? I guess this means you now consider Wikipedia to be "a tabloid newspaper" and are no longer interested in "preserving the idea of NPOV and really taking it seriously". Prioryman (talk) 00:00, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Jimbo, do you have any sense of whether the WMF plans to take stronger action than the rather wimpy message we have seen? Is there anything useful we plebians can do to press for stronger action? I feel that it is very important to respond strongly to those police-state tactics, and that the world press would support us if we did. Looie496 (talk) 04:00, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see anything wimpy about the WMF response. But what additional response do you recommend? I agree with you that strong response is very important.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:10, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Wouldn't any further response be redundant? The blistering Streisand effect has taught the officer involved and the agency everything they need to know about that kind of behaviour. Did the officer involved or the agency break French or EU law? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:11, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- What we need to get somehow is more press coverage. There have been a few stories, but they have missed the central point, focusing on the demand to delete the article and burying many paragraphs down the really outrageous thing, which was intimidating an uninvolved volunteer into carrying out the deletion. Regarding the Streisand effect, people who are familiar with the American or British systems may not understand the degree to which government functionaries in France (and Italy, Spain, etc.) are unresponsive to anything except orders from their superiors. Looie496 (talk) 02:03, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Wouldn't any further response be redundant? The blistering Streisand effect has taught the officer involved and the agency everything they need to know about that kind of behaviour. Did the officer involved or the agency break French or EU law? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:11, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see anything wimpy about the WMF response. But what additional response do you recommend? I agree with you that strong response is very important.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:10, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I have no idea whatsoever of what to do, but... I ask the WMF and Jimmy Wales, to consider the implications on the personal security of French admins of the French language WP. Most of all, I ask that you do not place THEM at risk to uphold YOUR beliefs. No matter how much I do agree with your beliefs - and in this case I completely do - I can not stop thinking what if it was the Portuguese intelligence doing that? Would I be threatened tomorrow? What would some smart guy in the US do for me? Write a post? You must think of something better than that. And a remark, here we go, with people asking for blackouts - that was the worst idea you ever supported... You weakened your - our - position as a institution looking to share knowledge, but with no "political party"-like activity. I hope it will not hurt us, and someone in France, now. - Nabla (talk) 23:20, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Non-edit to avoid unanswered questions being archived. 94.169.24.206 (talk) 15:41, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
- Nabla makes a good point. Our best defense is passive, not reactive. As I said before, we are very fortunate the admin wasn't threatened into silence about his actions. While it would be useful to make it as easy as possible for someone to "leak" that such censorship had occurred, we can't count on it happening. Our real defense is that we don't make a habit of accepting out-of-process deletions, we don't allow open-ended powers of speedy deletion, we don't allow admins to become so high and mighty that their word alone is enough to get an article quashed. And that can be a difficult line to hold! But hold it we must. Deletions must be looked over carefully enough, by enough people, that if someone is pressured into something, we'll be able to stop the deletion and say "what the heck are you thinking?". Only by ensuring that is what really happens in any incident can we make it unproductive to pressure our people. Wnt (talk) 20:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say any of that is a bad idea, but I'm not sure it would solve the problem seen in this case. Someone was put under a great deal of pressure to act outside of process and they understandably did. More process wouldn't have changed anything, and we can't necessarily protect Wikipedia from anything ever going wrong. Formerip (talk) 23:18, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
- The point of the process (even as it is now) is that one person who removes an article inexplicably will be reversed by another. So an agency can pressure away... won't matter. The article will stay anyway. While as I understand it (not knowing French that is!) while another admin didn't literally restore the article right away, there was immediate discussion during which it came out that the first admin had been pressured. So I take it (with low confidence) that failure to disclose the reason would also have led to undeletion. As long as the net result of intimidating an admin is that the article doesn't get deleted, people won't have a reason to intimidate admins and so it will happen less often.
- I should stress that this logic applies even more strongly when organizations more powerful and/or aggressive than French intelligence are concerned - Mafia, Mexican cartels, and so forth. It is only a matter of time until one of these demands that Wikipedia sanitize its treatment of some famous figure in their organization, and when that happens it is vital that the coercion of any one person, even if 100% effective, has no net effect on the content coming out to the world. Wnt (talk) 15:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
- From what I've seen, the impact of this entire controversy has been 100% negative for French Intelligence. From now on, they should change their name to "French Stupidity." All they did was to draw attention to whatever classified information was in that article and made themselves look like a bunch of Inspector Clouseaus. Coretheapple (talk) 17:45, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say any of that is a bad idea, but I'm not sure it would solve the problem seen in this case. Someone was put under a great deal of pressure to act outside of process and they understandably did. More process wouldn't have changed anything, and we can't necessarily protect Wikipedia from anything ever going wrong. Formerip (talk) 23:18, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
- Nabla makes a good point. Our best defense is passive, not reactive. As I said before, we are very fortunate the admin wasn't threatened into silence about his actions. While it would be useful to make it as easy as possible for someone to "leak" that such censorship had occurred, we can't count on it happening. Our real defense is that we don't make a habit of accepting out-of-process deletions, we don't allow open-ended powers of speedy deletion, we don't allow admins to become so high and mighty that their word alone is enough to get an article quashed. And that can be a difficult line to hold! But hold it we must. Deletions must be looked over carefully enough, by enough people, that if someone is pressured into something, we'll be able to stop the deletion and say "what the heck are you thinking?". Only by ensuring that is what really happens in any incident can we make it unproductive to pressure our people. Wnt (talk) 20:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
Low IE browser stats explained
I have been puzzling about the widespread use of Internet Explorer (top world browser perhaps IE8?), and Wikipedia's growing use of Google Chrome, to seem to be the top browser. The only explanation I can deduce is an over-emphasis on repeat usage. Compare:
- 1 guy in Google Chrome clicks 2,000 pages per day: 1 × 2,000 = 2,000 hits
- 400 people in Internet Explorer click 5 pages per day: 400 × 5 = 2,000 hits
The result would seem 50% of users prefer Google Chrome, but the reality is that 400 of 401 users do not. Instead, 400/401 = 99.75% of those users are running an IE browser, just not obsessively as "2,000" clicks per day, because older IE browsers have been garbled or locking up in Wikipedia for years (5 views per day was work). For that reason, any major improvement in Wikipedia's support for IE7, IE8 or IE9 might have significant impact for the "typical" user (in the example, 99.75% of them). Also, it might take months before IE8 users realize how Wikipedia now supports almost every edit they make, even precisely positioning locator-dots on a map. So, if IE support had been miserable formerly, then after 2 months, the editor activity figures should climb. -Wikid77 (talk) 05:53, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- *blink* People still use Internet Exploder? Why, when Firefox and Chrome exist and are so much more faster and secure? (✉→BWilkins←✎) 11:26, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- "older IE browsers have been garbled or locking up in Wikipedia for years" - again, what is your basis for this assertion? I've done a lot of testing of Wikimedia sites in different browsers when I was working on the fundraiser. There are some formatting issues with IE6, but no real problems with any newer browsers. Certainly no locking up.
- The increasing usage share of Google Chrome and decline of Internet Explorer is a general trend across the Internet. the wub "?!" 12:49, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- The problems with support for IE browsers have been discussed both here, and at wp:PUMPTECH, for years, with IE6, IE7 (Windows Vista), and until recently Windows 7 IE8 (which seems to work great now). There were several discussions of the misalignment of map locator-dots, due to needing "line-height:0" in div-tags. The lockups might have been related to JavaScript. -Wikid77 (talk) 15:40, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- See Usage share of web browsers. Chrome is one of a few browsers that fetches pages just in case you might read them. Other browsers - such as my own Firefox running NoScript - are invisible to the statistics. I imagine Google knows better than anyone the value of SEO in selling a product! Wnt (talk) 13:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- Had forgotten pre-fetched pages look like more usage: That is another issue, where I had forgotten how the pre-fetching of related pages can look like higher Internet activity, to seem as though "all those users are as active" as the numerous people who do not pre-fetch pages. Also, the Google "command completion" for query predictions (to list partial matching phrases) could significantly make Google-fans seem as if being even many more people than a person who submits a whole phrase for Google Search, rather than log Internet traffic after every few letters typed. That explains the so-called worldwide "increasing usage share of Google Chrome" as prefetching of pages is considered as many more users, possibly exaggerated 10x higher. Thank you. Mystery solved. -Wikid77 15:40, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- Sources about browser prefetching and market share: I found some sources which seem logical in the coverage about Chrome's prefetching ("prerendering") of pages and browser usage in March 2013:
- hitslink/browser-market-share (has IE8=23%, IE9=21%, Firefox 19=14%, Chrome 25=13%)
- "Google Chrome 13 adds Instant Pages" (in Google results, would prefetch several matching webpages)
- "Web Developer's Guide to Prerendering in Chrome" (pre-rendering JavaScript, after prefetching page)
- As even Chrome 13 (now Chrome 25 and Chrome 26) was prefetching ("prerendering") several Google Search results webpages, no wonder it was seen as "more users running Chrome" rather than ghost activity by Instant Pages. It is amazing that some benchmark organizations have been able to discount Chrome's prefetch activity, as often 10x exaggerated web-presence, to determine how Internet Explorer has retained ~56% of browser market share, but I wonder if that prefetching can still be discounted, with talk of partial-page prefetching, which might count even more webpage activity, but only partial buffering of several linked webpages, to give any click choice a partial speed advantage without waiting for several complete prefetched pages. I half-expect someone to conclude, "Now 99% of the world uses Chrome and all your friends are lying if they don't admit they use it". As W. Edwards Deming warned, years ago, in measuring data, "By what method: only the method counts". If 10 pageviews, with 89 partial prefetches, is measured as 99 pageviews, then no wonder a browser with just the 10 pageviews could seem to be in decline. -Wikid77 (talk) 20:52, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Namedropping
Hi there Jimbo. Don't think we've ever officially met, though I've engaged in some of the drama discussion on this page on occasion. Anyways, I had a lovely talk with David Rohde tonight, and he spoke highly of you. I wasn't a Wikipedian back when he was kidnapped, but I know that you helped with the media blackout, and I know that you took some heat for it. Well, just thought I'd say thanks for sticking up for the principle that real-world lives are more important than anything on Wikipedia. He's a fascinating guy, and I think it's safe to say that his insights have benefited the world far more than that minor ommission ever hurt it. — PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 04:37, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- Since we've been having several censorship issues recently, it might be worth thinking this over a bit further. If Kidnapping of David Rohde is correct, it sounds like the "blackout" was due to a lack of WP:reliable sources, and had they existed, it wouldn't have been feasible. Also I think it would be useful to balance the sympathy for a specific, known victim against the effect on unknown individuals. When Wikipedia fails to cover a kidnapping, could it make some readers less cautious, and therefore increase the risk of a second kidnapping? Also, as the recent French incident reveals, allowing even the perception that admins can effectively hush things up could put them in danger from spy agencies or (other) criminals. I should emphasize that my purpose here is not to criticize Jimbo - I think admins definitely shouldn't have that much power, but if they do, then using it in the short term for what they hope is a good end is not the same as imposing a censorship regime on a previously free system. Wnt (talk) 20:14, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- Every non-criminal has access to the sum of all knowledge, which any non-fascist can edit: Well, I guess there are some restrictions as to who gets to use and write Wikipedia articles. Things to ponder. -Wikid77 (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Norwegian User talk:Jimbo
Your page is being censored [3] by one of their administrators. (This is my first post.) --One Direction of norw (talk) 10:06, 15 April 2013 (UTC)SIGN
Three [4], [5], [6] of the users on your Norwegian talk page have been banned, without due process.
It seems that part of the problem is that the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia article in Norwegian does not have any references for its two norwegian translations of the name of the court. Ref needed-tag are being inserted, and then removed [7] wihout explanation.
The one translation calls the court, "... court for war perpetrator. If that had been the court's name, then that would violate a defendant's rights - in the same way that it would violate a defendant's rights to be forced to wear a T-shirt in court with big letters saying "He is a perpetrator. Everybody knows that he is guilty".
If Norwegian wikipedia has been spreading one poor unreferenced translation of the court's name (followed by one adequate translation) since 2006, then it's not the end of the world. Especially if no one has mentioned in on the article's talk page.
Nobody is perfect. Norwegian wikipedia makes mistakes. I make mistakes. Can't we just fix the mistakes and move on? --One Direction of norw (talk) 10:34, 15 April 2013 (UTC)SIGN
Should we adopt Norwegians' ref needed-tags policy
The Norwegian site has advanced past our's to the point where they have a de facto policy of reverting ref needed-tag insertions, followed by banning the users who insert ref needed tags.
Two of the articles where the above have happened are Power of definition and another one.
Maybe we should change our de facto policies. --One Direction of norw (talk) 10:46, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- This is the same editor who posted a couple of days ago as Whatthatspells (talk · contribs), blocked again for sock-puppetry, and showing up here with a new account, even though there is no reason not to keep using the old one. Looie496 (talk) 15:05, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
- This is suspected to be the same editor. No proof, no circumstancial evidence—only the word of an administrator who possibly feels that he has had his feathers ruffled, and now has resorted to censoring Jimbo's Norgwegian talk page—the first time anyone has done that on Norwegian wikipedia.
The Norwegians have had a couple of documented incidents where innocent wikipedians have been blocked. --One Direction of norw (talk) 14:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- This is suspected to be the same editor. No proof, no circumstancial evidence—only the word of an administrator who possibly feels that he has had his feathers ruffled, and now has resorted to censoring Jimbo's Norgwegian talk page—the first time anyone has done that on Norwegian wikipedia.
Lack of permission for File:Paul Myners.jpg
Hi Jimmy,
this is jut to let you know that three months have passed since you uploaded File:Paul Myners.jpg to Commons, claiming that it was released under CC-BY-SA, which was proven not to be the case.
Many things have happened in the meantime, but one is constant: we haven't heard why you uploaded the picture under this licence, and why you left so many comments about how Commons (and OTRS) are broken when it turns out that the copyright owner did not free the image. People are getting the impression that you are trying to avoid discussing this particular subject; I hope that this isn't true, and will be looking forward to hearing from you at last. odder (talk) 11:48, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- As I have said, I'm working to track down and rectify the source of the confusion. Patience.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:56, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps it would calm the savages, Jimbo, if you could briefly explain who you are communicating with, and what information you are seeking from them, that you believe will help track down and rectify the source of the confusion. (I.e., is there any chance that you yourself are the source of confusion, or have you eliminated that as a possibility?) - 2001:558:1400:10:2178:275E:1A53:BF78 (talk) 13:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- Until I get to the bottom of it, I won't know. I'm not willing to speculate about blame until I know who to blame (including me!).--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:21, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps it would calm the savages, Jimbo, if you could briefly explain who you are communicating with, and what information you are seeking from them, that you believe will help track down and rectify the source of the confusion. (I.e., is there any chance that you yourself are the source of confusion, or have you eliminated that as a possibility?) - 2001:558:1400:10:2178:275E:1A53:BF78 (talk) 13:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- Some people think a commissioned photograph is theirs: As noted weeks ago, some people might think once they hire a photographer to make a portrait, then that portrait should be theirs to distribute at will, unless reading the fine-print restrictions. Also, some people think Wikipedia images are display-only, so once they released them, then perhaps they were not aware how commercial companies could sell products using those photos. -Wikid77 (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Pregunta.. en español
Hola Jimbo Wales, he tratado de mejorar los articulos relacionados con Colombia, pues han estado un poco abandonados. Qusiera preguntarle si se podria arreglar por lo menos los articulos de Colombia en varios idiomas, algunos distorcionan la realidad del pais, todos sabemos que hay problemas como cualquier otro pais. He tratado de ayudar en el articulo en portugues pero fui bloqueado y no se me dejo hacer arreglos, en turco es muy deficiente el articulo, en ingles he tratado de arreglarlo, y en frances he conseguido ayuda, en aleman ha sido imposible modificarlo, en italiano. Le podria decir que la mejor version del articulo es la de español, pues es mi idioma natal y donde mas contribuidores hay. En si lo que le estoy diciendo es que he tratado de ayudar a mejorar la informacion relacionada con mi pais Colombia y es para mi imposible poder arreglar la informacion en tantos idiomas, quisiera poder contar con su ayuda en las traducciones para poder arreglar a nivel goblal la pagina de este pais o la informacion relacionada a este. Le sugiero visitar este articulo en español http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia ....podra no ser el mejor de los articulos pero podria servir para mejorar los demas, usted entendera a lo que me refiero. Saludos desde Colombia--Roboting (talk) 16:24, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- English translation
“ | Question... in Spanish Hi Jimbo Wales, I have tried to improve Colombia related articles, as they have been a bit neglected. Qusiera ask if she could fix at least the items of Colombia in several languages, some distort the reality of the country, we all know that there are problems like any other country. I have tried to help in the article in Portuguese but was blocked and not let me arrange, in Turkish is very poor article in English I tried to fix it, and I got help in French, in German has been impossible to modify, in Italian. We could say that the best version of the article is that of Spanish, it is my native language and where there are more contributors. On if what I'm saying is that I tried to help improve the information about my country Colombia and is for me impossible to arrange information in many languages, I would like to have your help in order to fix the translations at goblal page of this country or information related to this. I suggest this article in Spanish visitor http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia .... may not be the best of the items but could be used to improve others, you will understand what I mean. Greetings from Colombia |
” |
Kumioko (talk) 16:39, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
- Tagging pages for {expand Spanish}: The place to start is to tag each article with maintenance-tag "{{expand Spanish}}" then discuss issues on the related talk-page. (Spanish: El lugar para comenzar es etiquetar cada artículo con el mantenimiento de etiqueta "{{Template:expand Spanish}}" (ampliar español) y luego discutir los temas de la conversación-página relacionada.}} -Wikid77 (talk) 17:24, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
CISPA is back
See 1 and 2. How is the Foundation's position on this? hmssolent\Let's convene My patrols 05:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia users under attack
If you are used to manually type Wikipedia's web address instead of e.g. accessing it via your bookmark and you misspell the URL, you are at risk of downloading a dangerous trojan on your computer. That almost happened to me today, my antivirus software prevented trouble. I think I misspelled the URL as en.wikipeda.org which then redirects to a German site where your computer will get infected by a trojan unless your antivirus software catches it. Count Iblis (talk) 12:23, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
- The page is
wikipeda.org
(screenshot). It didn't set off antivirus warnings for me, but does seem to have annoying adverts. This is known as typosquatting.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
TAFI made it to the front page
Hello, |
Let my people go (please)
Hi Jimbo, Hope you don't mind if I call you Jimbo and not Mr. Wales, but I've been working very hard for over three years now to present to the world the origins your culture on your lovely project here and never really introduced myself, but always admired you and assumed a connection with common goals. What I'm here to ask you to let my people go. By "my people", I am referring to the lines of Egyptian royal architects, grailkeepers and Fisher Kings (up to Alain (Fisher King)) that have recently been deleted from your encyclopedia. I would like them restored as soon as possible please, or else you will get Water and then probably Frogs (or something symbolically a bit like frogs). Sorry to appear to threaten and all, see it's not me really but 'im upstairs, he just chucks me down here every few years to act out this little skit. In all other respects, am loving your work! Enjoy the water! smiles, Px Moses Thebed (talk) 14:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)