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:Not intending to speak for Mr. Wales, but the questions I'd ask myself are: Does including the person's real name add to the article? Will my understanding of the subject be impacted by the removal of the name? Is the person notable enough of their own accord to have their own article? If the answer is no to all three of these, then I'd say we should respect the rights of the private citizen to retain their privacy. [[User:Zaereth|Zaereth]] ([[User talk:Zaereth|talk]]) 23:35, 5 January 2010 (UTC) |
:Not intending to speak for Mr. Wales, but the questions I'd ask myself are: Does including the person's real name add to the article? Will my understanding of the subject be impacted by the removal of the name? Is the person notable enough of their own accord to have their own article? If the answer is no to all three of these, then I'd say we should respect the rights of the private citizen to retain their privacy. [[User:Zaereth|Zaereth]] ([[User talk:Zaereth|talk]]) 23:35, 5 January 2010 (UTC) |
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::I'd like to echo what Zaereth has said. I don't think it is possible to write down a very simple rule about this sort of thing. It depends on the sorts of factors that Zaereth covers, for sure. |
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::I have not studied this particular case in depth, but I did take a glance. At this point, we reference his real name with an amicus brief filed by Google in a court case. In general, direct cites to court documents should raise alarm bells: is this [[WP:OR]]? (I'm not saying that court documents can never be cited, only noting that many times people cite them inappropriately. It's too often a technique used to get around the fact that something isn't actually notable in any way. Again, though, I am not making any specific judgment about this particular case - I haven't looked into it deeply enough to have a firm opinion.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] ([[User talk:Jimbo Wales#top|talk]]) 14:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC) |
Revision as of 14:19, 6 January 2010
(Manual archive list) |
editorial and call for suggestions
I read your nicely written editorial in the Wall Street Journal Europe about hostility (incivility tends to be a Wikipedia used term and wasn't used in the editorial, I believe) on the internet.
If you have any ideas to bring about a kinder Wikipedia, let us know! I think it should be along the lines as lack of hostility must be rigourously enforced, especially among veteran editors, who have no excuse (and newbies, who have only a tiny excuse). Whether it be blocking, warning, discussion, yellow cards (English tend to use this), or something else, I am not advocating any specific measure. It is too bad that ANI is full of accusations and fighting. Although Wikipedians don't like editorial boards, sometimes these might help us guide really difficult questions when article talk pages fail. This is just brainstorming, not concrete suggestions. Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 19:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you, Suomi Finland 2009 for mentioning this (I would have missed it) — and thank you, Mr. Wales for highlighting this: A complex problem matrix of human nature and technology ... not beyond creative solution. Working on it. (serious smile) Proofreader77 (interact) 07:44, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
New Year's resolution;-) Replace AGF with PCS
Let it be ...
RESOLVED: WP:AGF should be replaced by WP:PCS (Presume Common Sense) in 2010.
-- Proofreader77 (interact) 22:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments for the Affirmative (150 words max)
- (First 10 only please)
- Since even Hitler meant well {serious smile}, WP:AGF is meaningless other than the WP:CIVILITY issue (a highly contentious matter LoL see: WP:Civility/Poll) of not saying what we're thinking about another editor's actions.
So, let us forget the pointless flailing (and flinging) of AGF ... and move on to a starting position when addressing another editor of: Presume Common Sense [PCS]. Presume we are on the same page as human beings with a good "common sense" of things ... and neither is an idiot ... etc. {serious smile}
By presuming common sense, we stop when confused by someone's actions, ... rather than presuming they are from another planet, assume we may be mistaken about what each is saying ... and therefore strive to get back to the same page ... rather than, e.g., erecting a force-field projector to keep the crazy person from the other planet from reaching our page.
-- Proofreader77 (interact) 22:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC) - -
Comments for the Negative (150 words max)
- (First 10 only please)
- I prefer to Assume Complete Ignorance of the Rules first :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:51, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Discussion
- (bonus points for haikus ;-)
- [haiku] Yelling "AGF!" / is usually a good sign / of not doing so. -- Proofreader77 (interact) 22:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
- [haiku re Negative #1] The only rule is: / Pretend the sysop is right / and "admit" you're wrong. -- Proofreader77 (interact) 20:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- [haiku] I've sent a challenge. / This year's rhetorical moves / burn hole in pocket. :-) -- Proofreader77 (interact) 02:57, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Debate result (certified by founder?)
The moment you've been waiting for
You may be entertained/horrified to read this paean to the First Couple of Wikipeda. Rule 42: never doubt it. Skomorokh 11:02, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- XD!!!!--Misortie (talk) 11:17, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- Thank you for pointing this page out, Skomorokh. I have deleted it. I would block the user, but since the page was a pornographic story written about me, some might consider me to have a conflict of interest, so I'll let someone else deal with that aspect of things.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 11:57, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- Well done but there are much more disturbing allegations made at that site here. Are they true? Think of the children (talk) 13:36, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- Specifically (I have followed some of the story, but don't advise following any of the links too far) it has been alleged that the author of Wikipedia's most famous mascot is also the author, and owner, of some extremely unpleasant images involving child abuse. Again, is this true? Think of the children (talk) 13:57, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- And your evidence for that is? (INB4BLOCK)--Misortie (talk) 14:05, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- It has been alleged on this website here. I don't know whether true. I would like someone to comment. Think of the children (talk) 14:08, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- I have no idea if it is true or not. Why do you ask? Do you have a specific proposal for an action within policy, or a change to policy?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:25, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- You don't understand why this may be a problem? No, I thought you wouldn't. Think: public relations. Think of the children (talk) 14:32, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- Did I ask you why that might be a problem? Did I say anything to indicate that I don't think it is a problem? Did I say anything to suggest that I might not understand something? No. I did not. I asked you: what are you proposing?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:41, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- It has been alleged on this website here. I don't know whether true. I would like someone to comment. Think of the children (talk) 14:08, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- And your evidence for that is? (INB4BLOCK)--Misortie (talk) 14:05, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- Specifically (I have followed some of the story, but don't advise following any of the links too far) it has been alleged that the author of Wikipedia's most famous mascot is also the author, and owner, of some extremely unpleasant images involving child abuse. Again, is this true? Think of the children (talk) 13:57, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Jimbo, with your Wikia hat on, you may want to take a look at this story about you at Unencyclopedia GTD 13:38, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- That's Uncyc. I don't get involved personally in policy there. Generally speaking, it's an appropriate place for satire/parody/farce. --Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:25, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- User:Think of the children certainly has some odd interests. If it is indeed true that this artist also draws scandalous works in a similar style, the Foundation might want to consider the ramifications any official endorsement or use. But that's the organization's policy and it's really not a matter for us editors. Regarding content policy on the encyclopedia, as fan art, or as an illustration in an article about anime, I don't see what the problem is with the tame images, certainly nothing that would suggest banning an artist's entire body of work because some of the works are this particular type of cartoon porn. - Wikidemon (talk) 15:06, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- To my knowledge, there is no official endorsement of this Wikipetan character. As for me, I've never liked it, but lots of people do. I'm happy to consider what should be done about it if the author of the work is in some way a sketchy character, but so far Think of the Children hasn't shared any ideas.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 23:12, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- You might want to see this article about you at uncyclopedia. December21st2012Freak Talk to me at ≈ 23:53, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- Why? For goodness sake folks, don't you think Jimbo has better things to do than look at ridiculous website posts? - Tbsdy lives (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 07:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- The fundamental right that everyone has on the Internet is privacy. If Jimbo does not wish to discuss this further, he doesn’t have to. If Jimbo wishes to remove this thread, he can. Totally up to him. Now I’m off to the little French bakery (Yes. They have French bakery’s in Seoul, but it’s all Korean food!)--Misortie (talk) 07:19, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- re Seoul - One day at a symposium at USC Annenberg, I was talking with someone about broadband suckage in America, and they mentioned that South Korea's was an order of magnitude faster ... because people had to have the superfastest connection to compete in online games. And I said, ah ha! SO QUESTION: Is the broadband really superfaster there, or can you not tell, etc? Proofreader77 (interact) 12:42, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- It's probably exaggerated somewhat, but yes, it is rather good. Excellent for downloading video content. The current connection I am using is shared and it is still very fast, much better than it is in the UK and as you mentioned the US. And it's peak time here aswell, not to mention I'm in a city of 20M people (Cf Seoul infobox Sadly, I am back in the UK tomorrow so I wont be able to benefit form it until I return in late spring! (If you have the time to Answer Jimbo, have you ever been to the Republic of Korea?)--Misortie (talk) 12:51, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, I've been to South Korea a few times. I like it very much. And yes, the Internet is pretty fast there. :-)--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:10, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks (to Misortie and Jimbo) ... Note: re Broadband+gaming - I noticed that Time Warner Cable has fairly recently (August 2009 commercial: "Lag") picked up on that idea the person at USC mentioned to me a few years back. We Americans can be slow on the uptake, sometimes. ^;^ Proofreader77 (interact) 20:48, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, I've been to South Korea a few times. I like it very much. And yes, the Internet is pretty fast there. :-)--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:10, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- It's probably exaggerated somewhat, but yes, it is rather good. Excellent for downloading video content. The current connection I am using is shared and it is still very fast, much better than it is in the UK and as you mentioned the US. And it's peak time here aswell, not to mention I'm in a city of 20M people (Cf Seoul infobox Sadly, I am back in the UK tomorrow so I wont be able to benefit form it until I return in late spring! (If you have the time to Answer Jimbo, have you ever been to the Republic of Korea?)--Misortie (talk) 12:51, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- re Seoul - One day at a symposium at USC Annenberg, I was talking with someone about broadband suckage in America, and they mentioned that South Korea's was an order of magnitude faster ... because people had to have the superfastest connection to compete in online games. And I said, ah ha! SO QUESTION: Is the broadband really superfaster there, or can you not tell, etc? Proofreader77 (interact) 12:42, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- The fundamental right that everyone has on the Internet is privacy. If Jimbo does not wish to discuss this further, he doesn’t have to. If Jimbo wishes to remove this thread, he can. Totally up to him. Now I’m off to the little French bakery (Yes. They have French bakery’s in Seoul, but it’s all Korean food!)--Misortie (talk) 07:19, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Why? For goodness sake folks, don't you think Jimbo has better things to do than look at ridiculous website posts? - Tbsdy lives (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 07:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- You might want to see this article about you at uncyclopedia. December21st2012Freak Talk to me at ≈ 23:53, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- To my knowledge, there is no official endorsement of this Wikipetan character. As for me, I've never liked it, but lots of people do. I'm happy to consider what should be done about it if the author of the work is in some way a sketchy character, but so far Think of the Children hasn't shared any ideas.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 23:12, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- User:Think of the children certainly has some odd interests. If it is indeed true that this artist also draws scandalous works in a similar style, the Foundation might want to consider the ramifications any official endorsement or use. But that's the organization's policy and it's really not a matter for us editors. Regarding content policy on the encyclopedia, as fan art, or as an illustration in an article about anime, I don't see what the problem is with the tame images, certainly nothing that would suggest banning an artist's entire body of work because some of the works are this particular type of cartoon porn. - Wikidemon (talk) 15:06, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
- That's Uncyc. I don't get involved personally in policy there. Generally speaking, it's an appropriate place for satire/parody/farce. --Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:25, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
(outdent) There is a discussion about 7107Delicious regarding this incident at WP:AN#Jimbo requests block of User:7107delicious, and from this edit, it appears that he will be emailing you. I appreciate that emails are private, but would you be able to drop a note at WP:AN about what he sends? There is a bit of a debate as to whether he should be blocked indef, or for a period of time. Thanks! Stephen! Coming... 16:59, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
You know, the story lends itself to allegorical interpretation—Wikipe-tan could be interpreted as the personification of the Wikipedia community, and the relationship between Jimbo and Wikipe-tan could represent Jimbo's purported love for the community, and vice versa.
But that would be absolutely ridiculous! So I suppose it's only fitting that that the story was deleted and its author was blocked from editing. Everyking (talk) 11:32, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Martyrs of Córdoba
Hi, in arabic page of Martyrs of Córdoba شهداء قرطبة they moved the page to مسيحيو قرطبة المحكومين عليهم بالاعدام or (christian of Cordoba who were executed) Justifying that it's not neutral. Is that true? according to Naming conventions we use the Common names and according to sources. Besides, the 48 person weren't all executed.. some of them were tortured to death [1] [2] so i doubt that we can call that execution. I want your opinion. thanks and happy new year. --Rimmyram (talk) 22:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
- "Martyrs of Cordoba" may be the common English name for the group, but is it the common Arabic name? --Carnildo (talk) 22:35, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Please help me end this drama once in for all
I really do hate to get start making accusations, but I feel as if User:Delicious carbuncle is seriously heading down a road of corruption. It all started over a simple proposal at WP:VILLAGE where I skeptically proposed an idea for a template similar to the Template:Romeo warning for silly vandals apparently belonging to cheerleading squads. DC then started questioning my actions at WP:ABUSE, in which case I appropriately addressed his concerns. However, he seems to possibly have a problem with either my involvement at the project or perhaps even the project as a whole. He posted my real life first name, high school, and high school mascot in an example, in which case I raised concerns of WP:OUTING (note that his previous block for outing is unrelated). He said that it was merely a random name he chose, and I've chosen to WP:AGF in the matter, and you may treat that matter however you so desire. After receiving a comment on his talk page from a blatant IP troll that's been harassing me for over a month, he decided to start looking into the trolls claims about my handling of a repeat offender mainly known here as User:LBHS Cheerleader. He started heatedly questioning my actions, asking for diffs about bans. I had removed a "suspected sockpuppet" template stating that the user might be related to User:Bobabobabo (which I had added over a year ago) and replaced it with a banned template since although I feel it's inappropriate that we were using Boba's ban against LBHSC without evidence, I similiarily felt it was inappropriate to all of a sudden to consider her "debanned." I also added LBHSC to the list of community banned users as it seemed to be a consensus to me. I probably should have discussed this first, but I did not in light of WP:BOLD and WP:DENY (I didn't want to start a thread without absolutely needing to). Per WP:DUCK, it seems pretty obvious that LBHSC and her minions have been vandalizing for quite some time, at least since 2006, probably ban-worthy. However, I gracefully removed the contested templates when Delicious carbuncle started a thread at WP:AN/I in attempt to calmly settle the issue, and even stated that I would voluntarily abandon my efforts to combat LBHSC's disruption (beyond non-controversial reverting of blatant vandalism of course). DC ruthlessly refused to compromise, and I even contemplated retirement if only to save my name "PCHS-NJROTC." Even then DC was not satisfied. Several users argued that LBHSC should indeed be considered banned as she would likely never be unblocked, including highly respected admins. Many editors, administrators, and even members of the WP:ArbCom have expressed their opinion that DC should move on. Even an admin who felt I had acted out of line and should be blocked stated that there's not enough support to keep the discussion going. Although there were those who defended my actions 100%, felt that although that the user should be banned but I should have discussed first, felt that I was being power hungry, and even thought that my actions were abusive, the general consenus of everybody was that I had offered settlement, learned important lessons, and that good faith should be assumed. Despite consensus, DC continued to revive the discussion over and over again, providing nothing new, and basically insisting on action. He has been warned repeatedly by several respected editors. He had stopped, and I had disengaged. I really wish this could have stayed in the past. However, Delicious carbuncle started User:Delicious_carbuncle/PCHS-NJROTC_ban_redux in the dawn of the new year. Considering the edit summary he used when creating the page, I initially thought his intentions were to use that as an arguement against someone who he is in conflict with known as User:Neutralhomer. In desire to not be involved in his conflict, I nominated the page for deletion at WP:MFD. I viewed it simply as an attack page which did not help the encyclopedia. I could have nominated for WP:CSD, but I didn't want to say that he was "attacking me" as I was in favor of disengagement as was recommended at AN/I. In response to the MfD, he indicated that he intends to start yet another ban discussion. I'm not sure if he's wanting a topic ban on vandalism as before (which really isn't even a topic) or an all out ban. I did indicate that I would not stay here if I was topic banned, and that I would just assume be renamed to something unaffiliated with me (i.e. Vandal Fighter Missing in Action) and then be fully banned, but thankfully there's no support for either a topic ban or all out ban. It's clear that disengagement is still prefered based on some comments at the MfD discussion. After the original page was nominated at WP:MfD, Delicious carbuncle proceeded to create User:Delicious carbuncle/work_page, and admitted to doing so to blatantly avoid scrutiny at MfD. I added the same MfD tag to that page as well because it was simply a recreation in anticipation of deletion. DC proceeded to remove the MfD tag. I then reinserted it and requested that he not edit war. Just as I've been composing this message, he's proceeded to once again remove the tag and complete his "work" and move it to WP:AN/I, which isn't even the place for ban proposals anyway (WP:AN would have been more appropriate]]). WP:AN. After posting at AN/I, he blanked the page, which is acceptable, but I restored it in fear that it would otherwise be speedy deleted, and I prefer that it stand at this time for others to observe through the course of this. In a nutshell, Delicious carbuncle is being obsessive; Wikipedians of all levels of experience have agreed that this drama has gone on too long, including User:Shell Kinney and User:SirFossie who are members of the Ban Appeals Committee at ArbCom. I can only WP:Let it go if he lets it go, and he's continuing to beat the dead horse. I am a proud Wikipedians, and I have made mistakes along side of great contributions. Please neutrally settle this as you feel fit, preferably along side consensus. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 20:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Holy TLDR batman! The community is more than happy to handle this, fwiw. tedder (talk) 20:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Wanted Jimbo to get the whole story. Took several minutes to write. If the community can handle this, Godspeed, and hopefully it will stay settled this time. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 20:32, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Happy New Year, Jimbo! The AN thread is here. If it needs to be said, little of what PCHS-NJROTC is accurate, but I'm not going to bother to refute it or respond to any other provocations here. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 20:34, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Relax DC, relax, soon it will all be over. No need to bite me as inaccurate or for me to bite you as inaccurate; neither of us are perfect angels in this. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 20:37, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Happy New Year, Jimbo! The AN thread is here. If it needs to be said, little of what PCHS-NJROTC is accurate, but I'm not going to bother to refute it or respond to any other provocations here. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 20:34, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Wanted Jimbo to get the whole story. Took several minutes to write. If the community can handle this, Godspeed, and hopefully it will stay settled this time. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 20:32, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- tl;dr. See also WP:AN#Proposed topic ban for User:PCHS-NJROTC. Jehochman Brrr 03:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Authors paid for editing in Wikipedia
Dear Jimbo, I am an author in the German Wikipedia.
I refer to the policy about "paid editing" [3]
- "Advertising for paid editing services is prohibited. This includes advertising services as a Wikipedia editor, administrator, or bureaucrat, bidding on advertised jobs to edit on behalf of, or to advocate for, the benefit of the employer (...)."
and your statements in the article "Jimbo Wales: No one can make money from Wikipedia..." [4]:
- "It is not ok with me that anyone ever set up a service selling their services as a Wikipedia editor, administrator, bureaucrat, etc. (...) I will personally block any cases that I am shown. There are of course some possibly interesting alternatives, not particularly relevant here, but the idea that we should ever accept paid advocates directly editing Wikipedia is not ever going to be ok. Consider this to be policy as of right now."
In June 2007 the Nova Institute, director Michael Carus, imposed paid editing in the theme circle "Renewable resources" in German Wikipedia (Nachwachsende Rohstoffe) [5]. Also Frank Schulenburg took part in the negotations about the project [6]. The project is paid by the German Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung. [7]. The Bundeszentrale is a public institution to spread political knowledge and pays more than 80,000 Euro, the whole budget is said to be 140,000 Euro [8]. Whatever the real budget is, it is an enormous amount per article. Also the German Wikimedia chapter Wikimedia in Deutschland gave 17,663 Euro in 2008 for "Nachwachsende Rohstoffe" [9]. For example, the author, administrator and former boards member of German Wikimedia chapter Achim Raschka was engaged by Nova Institute for this project.
In October 2009 we were informed in the Diderot-Club [10] that Nova Institute is offering paid service for charity organisations: Workshop: Wikipedia as millionfold pointer for your donators. (Workshop: Wikipedia als millionenfacher Wegweiser Ihrer Spender) also naming Achim Raschka:
- "You will learn basic and progressive knowledge how to change your entries factually and correctly as Wikipedia is demanding, at the same time in content and visualisation convincing for your potential donators. ("Sie erlernen Grundlagen und Fortgeschrittenen-Wissen, um Ihre Einträge einerseits so sachlich und korrekt zu verändern, wie Wikiedia es verlangt, ihn zugleich aber auch inhaltlich und visuell überzeugend für Ihre potentiellen Spender zu gestalten.") [11]
In November 2009 we found Achim Raschka editing since September and in conflict with other users in arcticles about charity organisations. Achim's versions of reduced critics were protected, the critic was blocked. The affected articles were World Vision, Plan International and others, the critics argue that is not ok that child sponsors are not informed whether their African sponsor child is untertaken female mutilation. The critics were even blamed for rassism.
Michael Carus did not answer my request for information on clients and affected articles [12].
In fact, since September 2009 stuff members of Nova Institute worked a lot and uploaded a lot of graphical material of the organisations like [13], for example the co-worker of Achim Raschka at Nova Institut, Mr. Jens Watenphul. Jens is portrayed as working for Ärzte ohne Grenzen, Greenpeace, World Vision. He is offering workshops for campaigns and strategies in Wikipedia ("Jens Watenphul ist Studienleiter an der Fundraising Akademie und bietet regelmäßig Kampagnen- und Strategieworkshops an – auch zu Wikipedia."). [14] Also there are some accounts cooperating closely who seem to have a single focus on these organizations.
Some Wikipedians are argueing rudely that it were ok to find paid positions after all for Wikipedia long time activists.
On the other hand, how will a project with volunteer authors resist to the influence of interest groups if these hire Wikipedians?
Yours sincerly – Simplicius (talk) 15:45, 1 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.247.13.185 (talk)
I would appreciate to know your opinion about this case. Thank you. Simplicius (talk) 15:46, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I don't know enough about it to have a strong opinion.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:10, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Edit this page
I'd like to hear people thoughts on the following. I made this edit to Jimbo's user page. I did so as per the statement of "Edit this page". I was careful not to vandalize or to violate policies. The edit was reverted in a manner that is appropriate for vandalism (no edit summary justification).
I don't care about the particular edit I made. It was a lighthearted bit of fun. I'm wondering what people think about the edit and the revert. If this edit was reverted as vandalism, then what type of edit was Jimbo referring to with his statement of "Edit this page!"? I'd like to explore this. Any thoughts? Joe407 (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
- I agree that the revert was unnecessary. Your edit was clever/cute and not disruptive in the least. JamieS93 22:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
- I agree as well. I believe it follows the spirit of the message. You can make the change again as it isn't vandalism in my opinion. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 22:54, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
- In fact an edit summary was given. It was 'rv', which means 'revert'. This is the second part of the WP:BRD cycle and does not mean that your edit was considered vandalism. --86.159.91.82 (talk) 23:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Privacy issues in BLP articles
Hey, Jimbo. Sorry to bug you, but I tried to ask someone else with knowledge in this area, and they haven't gotten back to me. Members of the Rational Response Squad, most notably its founder, Brian Sapient, uses aliases for reasons of privacy and safety. Sapient has confirmed to me via email that he prefers not to have his real name used in the RRS article. My understanding is that the respect for BLP subjects includes sometimes keeping such material out of articles (and even deleting articles), even when it is well-sourced. Would I be correct in understanding that removing Sapient's real name is permitted? Do you require that he email you himself? Nightscream (talk) 22:47, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
- Not intending to speak for Mr. Wales, but the questions I'd ask myself are: Does including the person's real name add to the article? Will my understanding of the subject be impacted by the removal of the name? Is the person notable enough of their own accord to have their own article? If the answer is no to all three of these, then I'd say we should respect the rights of the private citizen to retain their privacy. Zaereth (talk) 23:35, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
- I'd like to echo what Zaereth has said. I don't think it is possible to write down a very simple rule about this sort of thing. It depends on the sorts of factors that Zaereth covers, for sure.
- I have not studied this particular case in depth, but I did take a glance. At this point, we reference his real name with an amicus brief filed by Google in a court case. In general, direct cites to court documents should raise alarm bells: is this WP:OR? (I'm not saying that court documents can never be cited, only noting that many times people cite them inappropriately. It's too often a technique used to get around the fact that something isn't actually notable in any way. Again, though, I am not making any specific judgment about this particular case - I haven't looked into it deeply enough to have a firm opinion.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC)