DASonnenfeld (talk | contribs) →A bowl of strawberries for you!: new WikiLove message |
→broken talk page: new section |
||
Line 388: | Line 388: | ||
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Hi Good Olfactory, Keep on keepin' on! Kind regards [[User:DASonnenfeld|DA Sonnenfeld]] ([[User talk:DASonnenfeld|talk]]) 09:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC) |
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Hi Good Olfactory, Keep on keepin' on! Kind regards [[User:DASonnenfeld|DA Sonnenfeld]] ([[User talk:DASonnenfeld|talk]]) 09:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC) |
||
|} |
|} |
||
== broken talk page == |
|||
You moved [[Berne Convention]], but not its talk page ([[Talk:Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works]]). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User talk:Piotrus|<font style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</font>]]</sub> 12:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC) |
Revision as of 12:55, 18 May 2013
Template:Archive box collapsible
The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles
Hey there. Just to let you know, I've restored last year's edit to this article, this time with a 2008 LDS reference mentioning "Firstborn" in the context we discussed, as that seemed your issue with it. Cheers! Playerpage (talk) 21:42, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- The reference doesn't say anything about The Living Christ document or about its meaning. Its inclusion a type of original research known as "synthesis": you're taking an abstract explanation of the concept of "Firstborn" in Mormonism and then adding it to an article to rebut a cited statement that the document doesn't mention that Jesus is the elder brother of God's other spirit children. Your analysis is a good one, but it's the type of thing that should be produced in original writings or a blog post or something, not in an encyclopedia which relies on what others have already published. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:47, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
But isn't that all the referenced criticisms are doing? They merely comment (to themselves) that "wow, it certainly is noteworthy that the 'elder brother' concept isn't so emphatically mentioned" when in reality the concept is so self-evident among the Mormon faithful (as the Volluz research makes clear) that all the Brethren need do is capitalize the word "Firstborn" for the members to know what they are talking about. (Incidentally, as I'm pretty sure you know capitalizing "Brethren" is another shorthand among Mormons. They know right away anyone who does that is talking about the Salt Lake City leaders.) For you to ask me to do more than make a comment on the concept, with references, when all the "critical" commentaries consist of is OR in and of themselves, seems a little extreme. I mean, all I'd really have to do in order to make it acceptable by that standard is post the same thing on my own blog, then come back here and reference it in a new edit, wouldn't I? Playerpage (talk) 20:48, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, that's what the referenced criticisms are doing. The difference is that they are published in reliable, third-party sources. So when we cite them on Wikipedia, it's not original research for Wikipedia, because we're citing to outside sources. On the other hand, I don't know of any reliable, third-party sources that make the points you are making, so to include them is original research as far as Wikipedia is concerned. Unfortunately, a regular blog post is usually not considered a reliable source, so it would have to be something in a book, or a journal, etc. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:50, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, all I can do is throw up my hands, then. Because not only have you agreed that all of these criticisms are original research in and of themselves, you've said that blogs containing the same kind of original research don't qualify as references, when (because of the sheer amount) I can't count the number of blog-sites I have seen used as references on Wikipedia, PARTICULARLY in relation to Latter-Day Saint and other religious articles. I mean, I can give third-party references to 'Firstborn' as I did that generally mention what it means to Latter-day Saints, but if you want something signed by all twelve LDS Apostles that says "and that's what we meant in this document, too" you're probably not going to find it, because it would be as unnecessary as the executives of Apple releasing a PR statement about the iPad, and then releasing a signed affidavit in relation to that PR statement that says "By the way--all those terms we used, praising the iPad?--they mean the same as they did when we praised the iPhone."Playerpage (talk) 16:34, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but that's the way Wikipedia works. It's not intended to be "the truth" about every topic with all editors' collective insights and synthesis of researched topics included: it is intended to be a reflection of what has been said about the topic directly by reliable, third-party sources. There are other wikis out there that take a different approach: MormonWiki comes to mind. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:45, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Ismailism
Excellent job! Recategorizing the way you did by substituting "Shia" with "Ismaili" so that the reader now knows he is specifically reading about Ismaili Imams in particular and not about the Imams of other Shia communities also. This seemingly small change is actually a HUGE help toward removing reader confusion. Salim e-a ebrahim (talk) 02:44, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- I thought something was a little off in the categorization there. I'm glad you agree it was the right thing to do. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:28, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
You forgot to add [[:Category:Shi'a Islam by country]] to [[:Category:Shia Islam by country]] to WP:CFDW. Cheers, Armbrust The Homunculus 02:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:25, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Well done for finding a way through that. I hadn't wanted to waste anyone's work. – Fayenatic London 13:57, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- It should be OK, as there hasn't been any blowback on any of the changes, yet, so I'm thinking it's pretty non-controversial at this stage. Thx. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:47, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
- Well done for finding a way through that. I hadn't wanted to waste anyone's work. – Fayenatic London 13:57, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Re: Soccer/Association football in NZ
Hi GO - there are a few other "soccer" categories I've mentioned under your nom on the CFD-speedy page... they might be worth looking at as well. Grutness...wha? 07:24, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
- Will do, thanks. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:46, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
I wish you had let me know. Drmies (talk) 22:06, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, I had assumed that users who create categories have them on their watch list. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:16, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
- I got a few thousand things on my watchlist, Olfactory--I don't understand why you'd want to be snide about this. I'm going to recreate this category, and I suppose I'll do some explaining on the talk page. Deletion as G4, "it's essentially the same as the previous version", is probably correct in a technical sense, since categories aren't like articles, but it's also an all-too easy way of avoiding a discussion. And of course all rape victims are "historical": I was looking for a way to avoid BLP drama, and there is, as you know, a different sense of "historical". There can be no BLP drama about Lucretia and Artemisia Gentileschi. It is high time that 2007 deletion discussion is revisited. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 22:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not being snide, nor was I trying to avoid a discussion—I assumed editors watch the pages they create. I have several thousand on my watch page as well, and I watch them. That's what a watch page is for. I guess not everyone uses them. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:32, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
- No, I don't keep up with my watchlist, no. Well, how about this: the template asks you kindly to notify the creator; I don't think I missed this. The very first edit summary points (albeit incorrectly) to a creation discussion (if such a thing exists); it's archived at User_talk:LadyofShalott/Archive_25#Q. I hope you see I put some thought into this: deleting without notification, let alone discussion, strikes me as hasty. Drmies (talk) 22:53, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
- (Shock.) Are you being snide? On my talk page? Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:54, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
- Maybe. That's in the eye of the beholder, perhaps. My apologies for any snideness. I had hoped you'd focus more on the argument; I think I have one. And this puts me in a bind. I could simply recreate it, which might make me look obnoxious. Deletion review is my best option, where I will argue that the wording I used explaining the template makes it different from previous versions. The risk there is that I will be forced to argue that your deletion was incorrect, and I don't very much like to do that either--I wish you would look at the argument again, leaving personal issues aside. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 23:46, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'm OK for you to re-create it. Because you have objected with reasonable arguments I won't delete it again. Someone may nominate it for deletion, in which case a discussion could take place. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:47, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Deleted category
Hello, Good Ol'factory. In 2010 you chose to have Category:Pataphysicians renamed and deleted after this discussion. It is possible that the reason for renaming that category to Category:'Pataphysicians was in error. Please note the guide given in the 'Pataphysics article that states: "The words pataphysician or pataphysicist and the adjective pataphysical should not include the apostrophe. Only when consciously referring to Jarry's science itself should the word pataphysics carry the apostrophe."
You can see that this rename discussion ended correctly. However the answer to Lenticel's question was "no", i.e., Category:Pataphysicians should not have been renamed.
I had begun to rename Category:'Pataphysicians to the correct name when I came upon the notice that the correct name had been deleted, so I thought it best to check with you first before I correct this. I will be glad to rename the category, correct the 23 inhabitants' pages, create the soft redirect, and so on. Do you know of any reason why this category should not be renamed back to its correctly formatted, "no apostrophe" name? No rush, and thank you for your consideration in this matter! – PAINE ELLSWORTH CLIMAX! 15:59, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
- What you propose sounds fine to me. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:24, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you very much! – Good Ol'factory – PAINE ELLSWORTH CLIMAX! 23:10, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
- Completed – PAINE ELLSWORTH CLIMAX! 02:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Ambassador and expatriates categories
Hi. I'm a little worried that you're too quick to equate "ambassador to country X" with "expatriate in country X". Ambassadors to smaller countries are typically non-resident and simply have concurrent accreditation. For instance, as far as I can tell, Icelandic ambassadors have not been resident in Austria, the Netherlands or any of the Baltic countries so the corresponding categories should not suggest otherwise. Cheers, Pichpich (talk) 21:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- What is the purpose of categories? To facilitate navigation. If we try to assess every single case to try to determine how much time the ambassador has spent in the mission country, we will quickly have a headache on our hands. When a user goes to an expatriate category, he is probably looking for info on people from country A who have lived in/had significant dealings with country B. Ambassadors fit that, so I wouldn't worry too much about where they actually live. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:22, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- Non resident ambassadors will typically travel to the target country (and even that isn't guaranteed) but they'll stay at some posh hotel. By definition they don't live there so (also by definition) they're not expatriates in that country. I'm all for facilitating navigation but we have to respect the facts. Of course they're inconvenient facts because it can be a bit of a headache to figure out where the ambassadors were resident but in the above cases, there are clear sources that show that the two Icelandic ambassadors were not residents of these countries and therefore were not expatriates. Pichpich (talk) 22:32, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- I just think you're asking for problems—countries change their ambassadors' residence statuses frequently—what if some have been resident and some have not? It's hair splitting business, and it makes sense to me to just have a standard category structure to facilitate navigation. If you expect categories to be a 100% representation of "facts", then you're going to be repeatedly disappointed. I favour convenience over the hair splitting. Many would argue that ambassadors are not even "expatriates" at all, but debates like that (and like this one) are rather pointless because they completely miss the point of what categories are for. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- If a reader is looking for Icelandic expatriates in Estonia, you're not facilitating his navigation by pointing him to a category whose sole member is a man who never was an expatriate in Estonia. The only thing we're facilitating in this case is our job of constructing a category tree. Of course, I see the point of not thinking too hard about categories that contain both resident and non-resident ambassadors. But in cases where we have documented evidence that every current member of the category wasn't a resident ambassador, it seems odd to willfully mislead. It's also common sense to assume that there will never be a resident Colombian ambassador in Vanuatu and I would fight the inclusion of Category:Ambassadors of Colombia to Vanuatu in Category:Colombian expatriates in Vanuatu. You've seen me around long enough to know I'm not a purist but when we have clear info available that suggests that nobody in the category ever was a resident, it's not hair splitting to omit the expatriate category. Pichpich (talk) 23:10, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- I disagree, especially given the debates over what constitutes an "expatriate". As I said, I think the debate itself overall misses the boat entirely. (Incidentally, I don't really keep track of who is a purist and who is not or other editor predilections or -ists. That would be way too much work. So I'll take your word for it concerning your own.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:12, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- If a reader is looking for Icelandic expatriates in Estonia, you're not facilitating his navigation by pointing him to a category whose sole member is a man who never was an expatriate in Estonia. The only thing we're facilitating in this case is our job of constructing a category tree. Of course, I see the point of not thinking too hard about categories that contain both resident and non-resident ambassadors. But in cases where we have documented evidence that every current member of the category wasn't a resident ambassador, it seems odd to willfully mislead. It's also common sense to assume that there will never be a resident Colombian ambassador in Vanuatu and I would fight the inclusion of Category:Ambassadors of Colombia to Vanuatu in Category:Colombian expatriates in Vanuatu. You've seen me around long enough to know I'm not a purist but when we have clear info available that suggests that nobody in the category ever was a resident, it's not hair splitting to omit the expatriate category. Pichpich (talk) 23:10, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- I just think you're asking for problems—countries change their ambassadors' residence statuses frequently—what if some have been resident and some have not? It's hair splitting business, and it makes sense to me to just have a standard category structure to facilitate navigation. If you expect categories to be a 100% representation of "facts", then you're going to be repeatedly disappointed. I favour convenience over the hair splitting. Many would argue that ambassadors are not even "expatriates" at all, but debates like that (and like this one) are rather pointless because they completely miss the point of what categories are for. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- Non resident ambassadors will typically travel to the target country (and even that isn't guaranteed) but they'll stay at some posh hotel. By definition they don't live there so (also by definition) they're not expatriates in that country. I'm all for facilitating navigation but we have to respect the facts. Of course they're inconvenient facts because it can be a bit of a headache to figure out where the ambassadors were resident but in the above cases, there are clear sources that show that the two Icelandic ambassadors were not residents of these countries and therefore were not expatriates. Pichpich (talk) 22:32, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Talkback
Message added 06:14, 13 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
The Bushranger One ping only 06:14, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Article Feedback deployment
Hey Good Olfactory; I'm dropping you this note because you've used the article feedback tool in the last month or so. On Thursday and Friday the tool will be down for a major deployment; it should be up by Saturday, failing anything going wrong, and by Monday if something does :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 23:40, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Yugoslav Nazi collaborators
Category:Yugoslav Nazi collaborators, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 07:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
The move of this to Category:Burials in Kraków was agreed here but it seems to have been overlooked, and nothing has happened. Would you be able to implement it? Thanks, Jsmith1000 (talk) 14:31, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry - I see it's happened now - I should have been more patient.Jsmith1000 (talk) 00:09, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Lakas Kampi – Christian Muslim Democrats politicians
Category:Lakas Kampi – Christian Muslim Democrats politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 13:38, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
For your work on Category:People from Republic, Missouri
Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly. |
- Humbly accepted. :) Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:18, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Quebecor
Hello. In my experience with the repair of cut and paste moves, my edit of tagging the article for such repair, and subsequent edits, don't get deleted. 117Avenue (talk) 02:09, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- You're probably right. I didn't do it, mainly because I found out about the cut-and-paste job through another source, not through the tagging. I'll check for it next time I do one. Thx. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Recipients of a New Zealand Knighthood
I've undone your edit of Template:post-nominals/NZL-cats to remove Category:Recipients of a New Zealand Knighthood from KNZM. The new category designates recipients of a knighthood in the (post-1996) New Zealand Royal honours system which is separate from the (pre-1996) British honours system. Category:Knights Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit is attached to the page for New Zealand Order of Merit and is a sub-category of Category:New Zealand knights which in turn is a sub-category of Category:New Zealand recipients of British titles however The New Zealand Order of Merit isn't a British Honour. The intention is to use categories in Template:post-nominals/NZL-cats to identify recipients of a New Zealand knighthood (using Category:Recipients of a New Zealand Knighthood) separately from New Zealand citizens with a British knighthood (using Category:New Zealand Recipients of a UK Knighthood). Wikipedia pages tagged with both categories would denote someone with at least two knighthoods, one under each system.
If New Zealand still used the British honours system you would be right and the new category would be redundant however the honours systems have been separate since 1996.
Karl Stephens (talk) 10:20, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
- Category:Recipients of a New Zealand Knighthood has got some problems. It's essentially redundant to Category:Knights Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit and its subcategories, since none were given prior to 1996. And you've included women in the category; women never receive knighthoods. They are in Category:Dames Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:55, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Aber/Abergwyngregyn
Hi. You may want to take a look at my reply concerning Category:Aber, Gwynedd at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy. Skinsmoke (talk) 13:34, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Talkback
Message added 17:44, 21 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
The Bushranger One ping only 17:44, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Christian Bible College alumni
Please do not think it was rude of me to revert, but Category talk:Christian Bible College alumni explains that it is unclear what country and state this alleged school is in. It has not been established that Christian Bible College is North Carolina. I've asked for kindly asked for WP:RS, but have not been given any. If you can demonstrate this category refers to the institution in North Carolina and not in Louisiana or Nigera, then let me know. SalHamton (talk) 03:05, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
- I think you should wait until the CFD ends before removing the parent categories again. There's no hurry and it will help to defuse and calm the situation. The category creator defined the category as alumni of the CBC in North Carolina, so that's what is being assumed as far as the CFD goes. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:07, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Fantr (talk · contribs) has begun a CFD here. I invite you to add any comments. — Cirt (talk) 21:19, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Force of the Filipino Masses politicians
Category:Force of the Filipino Masses politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 18:02, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:New Society Movement politicians
Category:New Society Movement politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 18:03, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Partner of the Free Filipino politicians
Category:Partner of the Free Filipino politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 18:04, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:People's Power (Philippines) politicians
Category:People's Power (Philippines) politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 18:05, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Philippine Democratic Party – People's Power politicians
Category:Philippine Democratic Party – People's Power politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 18:07, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Rise Up Philippines politicians
Category:Rise Up Philippines politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 18:07, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Struggle/Fight of Democratic Filipinos politicians
Category:Struggle/Fight of Democratic Filipinos politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 18:08, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
CFD talkback
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
. A followup nom would be needed to implement your proposal. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:44, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Saltpeter
Please stop adding new options to discuss. You can't continue to propose names until the other editors get tired to oppose your will. --Best regards, Keysanger (what?) 21:23, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
- I didn't add any new options to discuss, another user did. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:24, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Category:Democratic Action (Philippines) politicians
Category:Democratic Action (Philippines) politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –HTD 03:56, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Punjab India MLA category
Hi.. I apologise in advance, if I have made is mistake. But I fail to spot any difference in the name you purposed and the already existing name for Category:Punjab, India MLAs 2012-2017 --Vigyani (talk) 01:50, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Your creation was fine—you matched it to the style of the other categories that grouped them by year. I'm just suggesting that they all be changed from using a hyphen in between the years to an endash between the years. On some computer systems it's difficult to see any difference, but they are different characters. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:52, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- hmm.. are there any such guidelines on WP? --Vigyani (talk) 01:57, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- A styleguide: WP:DASH. See also speedy rename C2A. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:58, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- hmm.. are there any such guidelines on WP? --Vigyani (talk) 01:57, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Hallo! I am writing concerning the changes of names of the subcategories inside this category. At the beginning the Category:Families of fishes was proposed for the name changing (to Category:Fish families). I made the new category, also changed the name in all analogy cases (see the Category:Animal taxonomy). But but English is poor, and after your changes concerning the Category:Fish orders, I am not sure what form is better. So, is it really correct? If not, it should be better to correct all the categories inside the Category:Animal taxonomy using same standard of name. Thank You! --Yuriy Kvach (talk) 07:33, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I think either form could be OK. My only concern was that they had been emptied and renamed out-of-process, but I think the names you have used for the new categories are probably better. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:28, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thank You for your answer! So, could you, as administrator, change the names of all subcategories in Category:Animal taxonomy using same form? Or to organise this changing. --Yuriy Kvach (talk) 06:10, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Created on a SPA userpage this morning, where there's also an outing of me; there's been a campaign by people trying to POVize Adrian Dix to get me banned from Wikipedia, citing my activities in forumspace as a reason I should not be here.....I have to do an important trip today, don't have time for an ANI re the outing on that page and also on User:Sunciviclee's userpage, which is being treated as a talkpage. Obviously the WikiWars cat needs a speedy deletion, I'm wondering if you'd help with the procedures here; including any WP:Outing and WP:Harassment ANIs and such that I'm pretty sure are appropriate.Skookum1 (talk) 00:28, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'll do what I can. I have already deleted the category and removed the outing comment from the edit history of User:Sunciviclee. I can start an ANI if you like. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:38, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I just reported this as a followup on the 3RR section about this; please keep an eye on that account and/or my talkpage. I have a two-day trip starting in a few hours and won't be around.Skookum1 (talk) 00:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- The new SPA is probably a meatpuppet.Skookum1 (talk) 00:43, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I blocked User:Srob88. I think the User:Downtownvanman account is pretty close to blockable at this stage. I'll keep an eye on the reports. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Hell, I'm blocking them all. They are clearly run by the same person, and he's harassing you fairly big time. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:46, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- to say the least....I'm impervious to insults as you may realize, and I'm up front on my userpage about who I am; a while back another user's talkpage had a vulgar comment made after one of my posts that I'm sure was related to someone from forumspace (where I'm open about my Wikipedia activities) to try and shut me down, as is also the case with this lot. Not the first time this has happened with BC political articles from that particular political persuasion......what's that line, is it Eleanor Roosevelt's, about 'if you have acquired enemies, it's because you stood up for what you believe' or some such?Skookum1 (talk) 00:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about it: he sounds like a dick. I've blocked User:Sunciviclee and the two other accounts. I'll keep an eye on your page and on Adrian Dix over the next few days. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:51, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not sure at all that User:Sunciviclee is part of the puppet pack; their post towards me and MastCell wasn't hostile, or didn't sound like it, but wanting private contact is kinda odd. My email is findable not only here but also on my webpages that are linked on my userpage.........Skookum1 (talk) 00:53, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- OK; well, if I have done a bad towards Sunciviclee, I'm sure he will let me know and I can rectify it. It does seem awfully coincidental, though. We'll see what the response is. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:55, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- This is downright odd - posting a query as a category.Skookum1 (talk) 00:59, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- OK; well, if I have done a bad towards Sunciviclee, I'm sure he will let me know and I can rectify it. It does seem awfully coincidental, though. We'll see what the response is. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:55, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not sure at all that User:Sunciviclee is part of the puppet pack; their post towards me and MastCell wasn't hostile, or didn't sound like it, but wanting private contact is kinda odd. My email is findable not only here but also on my webpages that are linked on my userpage.........Skookum1 (talk) 00:53, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about it: he sounds like a dick. I've blocked User:Sunciviclee and the two other accounts. I'll keep an eye on your page and on Adrian Dix over the next few days. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:51, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- to say the least....I'm impervious to insults as you may realize, and I'm up front on my userpage about who I am; a while back another user's talkpage had a vulgar comment made after one of my posts that I'm sure was related to someone from forumspace (where I'm open about my Wikipedia activities) to try and shut me down, as is also the case with this lot. Not the first time this has happened with BC political articles from that particular political persuasion......what's that line, is it Eleanor Roosevelt's, about 'if you have acquired enemies, it's because you stood up for what you believe' or some such?Skookum1 (talk) 00:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Hell, I'm blocking them all. They are clearly run by the same person, and he's harassing you fairly big time. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:46, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I blocked User:Srob88. I think the User:Downtownvanman account is pretty close to blockable at this stage. I'll keep an eye on the reports. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
The puppet master is, I think, User:Downtownvanman. That name is vaguely familiar from forumspace somewhere.....CHECKUSER would confirm, I think, that Sunciviclee isn't the same nor from the same group.Skookum1 (talk) 01:01, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- OK. Very unusual. I've asked him to confirm there is no connection; if he confirms it, I will unblock and see where things go. I think you're right that there's definitely a connection between Downtownvanman and the SPA. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:02, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- He says he's a journalist writing a story on the "editing wars", which might explain why he wants to contact your real life persona. I have unblocked him and apologized. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:08, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
He did, I mailed him; the article's in print, or part one anyway, and I've commented there, he asked me no questions when he contacted me, just told me he was working on the column.....there's another SPA now too, wanting to change full protect to semi-protect but also doing some hostile additions on the Gregor Robertson article; "Wikipedia is not a newspaper".....nor should it be a soapbox, no? Note that this same SPA tried to create an article which was refused, to do with NGO donations, which is also what his Robertson agenda/edits are about........I"m sure there's a p.r. office out there with multiple IPs, they know about IP blocks......."someone" (as that user calls me) is getting tired of this LOLSkookum1 (talk) 03:27, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Talk about "Plant ABC transporters" page that was deleted
Hi Good Olfactory,
I realize the reason this was deleted was because it was under a "category." My intention was to put my paragraph on the "ABC transporter" page. I would like to put it under the category or heading "Eukaryotic ABC transporters." I believe my contribution is well sourced, and the reason it was deleted was because it was not in the proper place. Can you take a look at my contribution you deleted, and see if this would go well in that page? Because I beleive my contribution is well sourced and accurate and has proper format for wiki. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Duar9035 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Sure. I have placed the text at User:Duar9035/Plant ABC transporters. You can then cut the text and add it where it belongs. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you thank you!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Duar9035 (talk • contribs) 01:45, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
O. Vincent Haleck
Hello there! I don't disagree with restoration of the sentence in the article about Haleck, but even though skewed, here at least were two of my thoughts when I removed it.....First, I didn't consider it that notable that a newly called general authority moved to Salt Lake City and second, as the source does mention, he's likely to be assigned in an area presidency someplace, so wouldn't be residing there anyway. I think part of it was trying to make it more "timeless" as you've suggested before - notwithstanding the fact that in a few years when he'd presumably be released from the Second Quorum, that they'd return to Samoa. Thanks for all you do!! ChristensenMJ (talk) 01:36, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that a typical reader would know that general authorities move to SLC; it was notable enough a fact to appear in the A. Samoan newspaper. Anyway, I guess I'm OK if you want to remove it; it is a fact that is ultimately available in the source. In the future, if he ends up living in SLC rather than being assigned to an outlying area or if he does not return to A. Samoa after being released, I think it might be worth including. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:41, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks! No, I am fine leaving it in, as you said, it's notable enough in any local areas to indicate the move - particularly when any of these "firsts" take place. Thanks for your good efforts!! ChristensenMJ (talk) 01:59, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
England was/is a country, but...
It's already under the United Kingdoms category. I'd like further thoughts, though. --Nlu (talk) 02:51, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see the harm in having it in both. A reader looking for someone executed by the Kingdom of England might become stumped as he searched for England in the list. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:54, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Colony of BC subcat
Thanks for creating that (people executed), I was uncomfortable seeing "British North America" because that normally doesn't refer to British possessions in North America, but particularly to "the Canadas" (ON and QC) and the Maritimes ; not sure if as a usage it ever included Newfoundland; and Rupert's Land I'm not sure about its inclusion....as being British parts of North America, the term is applicable; but not according to its usual meaning cf. the British North America Act (1867). Not sure how many were hung in the colonial period.....not just him and his compatriots, that's for sure, but not many....I came across mention on a Lillooet history group the names of some of the people executed by hanging there, 12 in all by tradition, but pretty sure that was post-1871 so wouldn't belong in this category anyway.Skookum1 (talk) 07:03, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Christianity
Please give me a response for this: What is the category Christianity for? Ashbeckjonathan 23:04, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
- Have a look at Category:Christianity and its subcategories. I think you will get a feel for what it is for. In short, it and its subcategories are for grouping articles that are about Christianity. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:05, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
A cup of tea for you!
G'day! Thanks for your many contributions! Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 12:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC) |
- Thanks again! I feel like I have a guardian (cataloging) angel looking after me! :-) Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 14:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Rugby league cats
Hey, just wanted to drop by and say I appreciate all your recategorisation of the rugby league articles, even if I've ended up opposing a few of them! :) Also, good work on the expatriates/nationality sorting, thats always an ongoing battle to clean up on biography artciles. Mattlore (talk) 00:11, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
- Ha! I just posted on your talk page about something related .... Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
- Incidentally, could you look at this. It's a weirdly formatted category. I thought the best might be just to use the current name, but you might have a different (ie, more informed) view. I'd welcome any input. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, great minds and all that I guess! Yeah - that category is a bit odd and doesn't match the conventions. I saw it at speedy and my gut was to object but after I thought about it I couldn't really justify keeping it the way it was (apart from "thats how its always been"). So I think your proposal is the most simple solution. Mattlore (talk) 00:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
- Incidentally, could you look at this. It's a weirdly formatted category. I thought the best might be just to use the current name, but you might have a different (ie, more informed) view. I'd welcome any input. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
County government
Greetings G.O.,
We haven't always agreed 100%, but I certainly respect you 100%. Unfortunately I am dealing with an editor for whom I have lost respect. Orlady is stalking my work in the area of state and county government in the U.S. I have been working most recently on a category tree for county government, which had not existed before (I am sure you know how that is - tedious and thankless).
I currently have a made proposal to make the category for persons (i.e officeholders, elected and appointed) consistent. Wouldn't you know it? Orlady is opposing it. I am really at the point with this person where my time is best spent just asking people to ignore him or her. However, I will be glad to answer any of your questions on the matter. Any help appreciated. Greg Bard (talk) 05:38, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
- It is kind of annoying as an editor when you're faced with an issue like this. Sometimes it seems like there are editors that just follow you around so that they can oppose anything you are trying to do. I guess we should give the user the benefit of the doubt, and accept that he or she must have real concerns with what is being proposed. Some editors at times do feed off the confrontation and blow-back, so if you are feeling frustrated maybe what you say is right, that the best thing for you to do would be to just try to ignore the user and not try to respond to him or her. I will have a look at substance of the proposal itself and see what I think. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:40, 21 April 2013 (UTC) PS: I'm glad that there are no hard feelings between us. I know I can be overly brusque at times, and I am trying to work on that with my online WP interactions. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:42, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
thank you for adding
a category to my new category, "Students of Robert Henri". I forgot (if I even knew) that categories need categories too. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 00:41, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Chilcotin again
I'd thought because I'd been the instigator of the last change, which was a correction on another mis-fired speedy, I'd be OK to nominate the subcats that were affected, as "in Chilcotin (region)" is not correct usage; should be "in the Chilcotin (region)".....and if the main article for the parent Category:Chilcotin (region) were changed to the Chilcotin dab page from the Chilcotin (region) region page, it might simplify any future problems......Category:Populated places in the Cariboo and Category:Populated places in the South Okanagan are other examples of the use of "the" before region names in BC. Please see User_talk:Skookum1#CFD_re_the_Chilcotin.Skookum1 (talk) 06:12, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Deletion of Category:Boqol hore
Hi, re these two deletes - nothing wrong with doing that, but you might like also to take a look at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Baastow1. I think there's a pattern. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:56, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the note on this. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:06, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
New key for Category?
Hi. I recently created a couple of new categories, among others Fibula. I can see that you added new key for Category using HotCat which translated to adding a "|" ([[Category:Fibula]] -> [[Category:Fibula| ]])
Could you tell me what this means and why it is done? I am asking, so that I might start doing this my self and thus reduce the workload for others such as yourself... Kind regards JakobSteenberg (talk) 09:33, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- Hi; yes, what this does is it puts that particular article at the top of the list on the category page. If you look at Category:Fibula, you will see that the article Fibula is at the top rather than being found under the "F". This is typically done for the "key article" of a relevant category. See WP:SORTKEY for more information. (There it says: "Use a space as the sort key for a key article for the category.") Thanks, Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- Okay. I will try to remember doing this in the future. Thanks for the fast reply. JakobSteenberg (talk) 09:40, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- It's a small housekeeping-type thing. It's not crucial, but it's a nice touch to allow editors to quickly find the key article in the listing. Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:42, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Indians
Thanks for emptying Category:Native American Latter Day Saints, very clever and extremely helpful in regard to my future article on this subject. I also like the way that you submitted it to the LDS wikiproject.-MacRùsgail (talk) 15:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC) p.s. Did you ever think the reason people keep on creating the page is that it is useful?
- It was deleted via a discussion here. DRV could be an option if you are interested in having it exist. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:09, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
- Did you list it on any of the relevant Wikiprojects? --MacRùsgail (talk) 17:14, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
- I wasn't the nominator. But I believe the nominator is a member of the Latter Day Saint Wikiproject. I used to be a member of it, but since I rarely checked in at the Wikiproject page, I "resigned" from it. I probably am one of the more active editors on Latter Day Saint topics. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Peer review for text in a category that you created
Bente Lyon is a Norwegian convicted of narcotics trafficking and pimping.[1] In 2007 an appelate court verdict (of five years in prison) was upheld.
An article in Dagbladet in 2006 called her "Norway's uncontested brothel keeper" (Norges ubestridte bordellmamma).Kampklar --Normash (talk) 02:30, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Norwegian sex worker
The redirect of Audun Carlsen to Boy George needs a peer review since my Norwegian account has been profiled as a sockpuppet. --Normash (talk) 02:45, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
cats for treaty-countries
He Good Olfactory; I see your putting the category serie "Treaties of xxx" to good use by systematically including all countries. I am not sure, but assume it has something to do with the wikidata project, that can convert this info in the end to useful statements to be used in other projects as well... In over 90% of the cases this leads to a clear assignment, but in those countries that
- i) changed names (incl Serbia/Russia),
- ii) split/split off (Montenegro, Kosovo, Czech, Kiribati),
- iii) were different entities (Spain),
- iv) ratify for different individual units (UK, Netherlands, sometimes Canada)
Could you expand on what you chose and if you are still planning to do other things? I would be interested in a consistent set of categories displaying also the applicability, e.g. Category:Kingdom of the Netherlands (Aruba) (or similar named); Category:Treaties in force in Montenegro (as with the cat ii countries, a declaration of succession needs to deposited, so not all "parent"-treaties apply... Thanks! (btw: if there has been some centralized discussion, please direct me there, so I don't duplicate what might have been already done...)L.tak (talk) 07:33, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
- Right—you've hit directly on the main problems that I've tried to approach consistently with these categories. There hasn't been any central discussion about it. I think I attempted to start one ages ago—must have been in 2009 or so—but there wasn't much interest/no one seemed to know what I was going on about. So here is what I have done so far, essentially of my own initiative: basically, I categorize the treaty in an applicable country category by the country that concluded the treaty and/or ratified it. So if the treaty was ratified by the Soviet Union, it gets Category:Treaties of the Soviet Union. To deal with the problem of direct state succession, as with the Soviet Union and Russia, I have placed the old state as a subcategory of the succeeding state. So Category:Treaties of the Soviet Union becomes a subcategory of Category:Treaties of Russia. In some cases, I have added headnotes to the categories which explains that, for example, many treaties that are in force for Russia are located in Category:Treaties of the Soviet Union. For countries like Montenegro that have filed declarations accepting particular treaties of the former state (Serbia and Montenegro) but have not themselves been accepted as the successor state for all purposes, I have included the category in the treaty they have explicitly accepted. I know that these are not perfect solutions, and it can lead to some anomalies (such as Category:Treaties of Montenegro and Category:Treaties of Serbia and Montenegro appearing on United Nations Charter, but not Category:Treaties of Serbia) but they seem better to me than the alternatives. I have shied away from a category of the likes of Category:Treaties in force for Russia, etc., but that doesn't necessarily have to be determinative as to whether such a scheme does exist.
- When the number of treaties is quite large for a given country, I have created subcategories for the different incarnations of the state: see, eg, the subcategories of Category:Treaties of France. I have also shied away from having the current incarnation of the state have a separate category. For instance, Category:Treaties of the French Fifth Republic is just a redirect to Category:Treaties of France. (Some of these redirects need to be emptied; for some reason the contents don't seem to be transferring.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:36, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Just kibbitzing as a drive-by, but shouldn't Category:Treaties of Serbia and Montenegro be "between" rather than "of"??Skookum1 (talk) 03:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- I think its overall an improvement the way you did it consistently (I will add some text to controversial categories names as "treaties of the Netherlands" (which can mean 2 things) for "Treaties of the Kingdom of the Netherlands"), but am still looking for a way to see which conventions are in force on certain territories in the categories ii, iii and iv. I think a few extra cats would help accomplishing that. (Treaties in Force in Aruba). I am still a thinking what to do with Montenegro: shall I add the conventions that it is party to by deliberate succession? Or make a separate for that occasion? L.tak (talk) 09:33, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
- One thing to keep in mind with a category for "treaties currently in force" is that in the past there has been fairly consistent consensus at CFD that we should not have categories that categorize "current" status versus "former" status, and the like. Information like that is almost always put into article lists as opposed to categories. For that reason, I think a category for treaties currently in force is not generally a good idea. Maybe something of the nature of "treaties applied to Aruba" or something that makes it sound less like a "current" application category.
- Regarding Montenegro—I don't think it's an issue, since in 2006 Montenegro "ratified" a bunch of the treaties that Serbia and Montenegro was party to, and now Montenegro shows up on ratification lists for those treaties. The real problematic situation is Serbia's succession of Serbia and Montenegro, since they are party to a bunch of treaties by virtue of Serbia and Montenegro's ratification. On the lists, S&M's ratification is listed as the Serbian ratification. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- I think its overall an improvement the way you did it consistently (I will add some text to controversial categories names as "treaties of the Netherlands" (which can mean 2 things) for "Treaties of the Kingdom of the Netherlands"), but am still looking for a way to see which conventions are in force on certain territories in the categories ii, iii and iv. I think a few extra cats would help accomplishing that. (Treaties in Force in Aruba). I am still a thinking what to do with Montenegro: shall I add the conventions that it is party to by deliberate succession? Or make a separate for that occasion? L.tak (talk) 09:33, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
- Just kibbitzing as a drive-by, but shouldn't Category:Treaties of Serbia and Montenegro be "between" rather than "of"??Skookum1 (talk) 03:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Category:Populated places on the Okanagan Lake needs to have "the" removed
I've advised the category's creator User:TBrandley about his error and about Speedy Criteria changes possible for him; he's a newbie and been creating more unneeded categories than actually improving any articles; is there a way to expedite this rather than a CfD if he doesn't get it together to do a CfS? He's not in my timezone, so hasn't had a chance to reply, this is an instance of a wrong idiom being used, sorta the opposite of the Chilcotin problem.Skookum1 (talk) 03:45, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Since he's requested it himself and he is the creator and only editor of the category: yes, we can do it immediately without any problem. I can activate the bot to do it. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Category:Presidents of the Aristotelian Society
Thanks... I was working on a connected stub, and saw the cat should exist, but I was unsure about categorization of categories. I was hoping someone would notice the new page and take care of it. Revent (talk) 03:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Should it be in something more specific? Are they all British? If so, we could change it to Category:British philosophers. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:48, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Nope.. Quassim_Cassam is from Kenya, for instance. There should also prob be succession boxes, but I'm unsure quite how those work other than adding an existing missing one to a page. Revent (talk) 03:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm not great with working those either. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for helping me with King Philip the Fair!--Mychele
- Nope.. Quassim_Cassam is from Kenya, for instance. There should also prob be succession boxes, but I'm unsure quite how those work other than adding an existing missing one to a page. Revent (talk) 03:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Sticky ghost category
Hello there, O category guru. I noticed that Federal Bureau of Investigation and Special Intelligence Service are both in a red category Category:Federal law enforcement agencies of United States of America, which should be Category:Federal law enforcement agencies of the United States. Problem is, that red category isn't present with regular categories at the bottom of the text of the articles, and consequently can't be modified or removed with HotCat. I figure it must be hardwired in some template used only on those two articles, but I can't find any such template. Any ideas? --BDD (talk) 17:09, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- That was a tricky one! But this seems to have done the job. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- Wow. I never would've thought of that. And I still don't see why it would affect those two pages but not others where that template is present. Regardless, you've fixed it. Thanks! --BDD (talk) 23:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- I haven't checked out the details of how it's used on the other pages, but there is probably some code that is used to suppress the category application—or maybe a code to turn it on for the two articles. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- Wow. I never would've thought of that. And I still don't see why it would affect those two pages but not others where that template is present. Regardless, you've fixed it. Thanks! --BDD (talk) 23:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Your new category.
I was deprecating your new category for a reason. It has absolutely no reason to exist. We have many, many existing categories (too many, in fact) for the same exact group of people. Furthermore, very few Sudeten Germans, who you linked as a subcategory of your created category, would identify as "Czechoslovak people". Those that reject the term "Sudeten Germans" and prefer "German Bohemians" would still never be referred to as "Czechoslovak people", which is an ethic term for Czechs and Slovaks. Please justify your reasons for creating the category. RGloucester (talk) 23:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- So nominate it for deletion using WP:CFD. You can't just say—"I'm going to deprecate this category because I don't like it and we have too many categories already." It's part of an overall scheme of Category:Czechoslovak people by ethnic or national origin and Category:People of German descent, so I personally don't see a problem with it. Whether or not Category:Sudeten-German people belongs as a subcategory is a separate issue, and is not sufficient to justify deletion of the category outright. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:25, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- I will do so if I must, but I hoped to avoid that. Deprecation is a common technique, however harsh. Can you explain, though, why you think it is necessary? The problem is, you the "German situation" in the Czechoslovak Republic was very different than any other ethnicity. Lumping them as "Czechoslovak people" would be considered offensive by the people themselves, more than likely, and factually incorrect. I can go further into detail, but that's not my concern. Why do you think it is necessary? RGloucester (talk) 23:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not terribly interested in debating this here. I don't think the category is "necessary". Very little in Wikipedia is necessary. It's merely a convenience for browsing. I see it as part of the overall schemes of Category:Czechoslovak people by ethnic or national origin and Category:People of German descent. It holds a subcategory, Category:German expatriates in Czechoslovakia; such expatriates categories are routinely placed in the ethnic or national descent categories for convenience of navigation. If someone was a national of Czechoslovakia, they were Czechoslovak, and there are usually citations that describe them as such. The fact that individuals don't like their national status is fairly common. And as I said, whether or not Category:Sudeten-German people belongs as a subcategory is a separate issue. What you call "deprecation" of categories sounds like simply out-of-process emptying and deletion, which is typically considered disruptive behaviour and can therefore lead to blocks, so I suggest you don't do it anymore. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:43, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not trying to be discourteous, but if you create a category you must be able to defend its existence, mustn't you? German expatriates in Czechslovakia, fine. But expats are not really Czechoslovaks, are they? This is only a problem here because of the fact that there was a very large native German population in the Republic, until right after the Second World War. The Sudeten Germans were not Czechoslovaks, and were never considered Czechoslovaks. They were native German inhabitants of the Czechoslovak Republic, most of them against their own will. Furthermore, you category name leads to many problems from a historical perspective. Which Czechoslovakia do you refer to? Pre-war, or post-war? Second Republic, or Socialist Republic? These were not the same entities. Prior to the war, there was a large native German population. After it, that population was expelled. Then, there was some remaining people of "German descent", and no longer really a separate Sudeten German "nation" as they were prior to the expulsion. All these things need defining, and history has to play a part. One can't simply create arbitrary categories through rigid dogma schemes, ignoring the vernacular situation for each group you make the category for. RGloucester (talk) 23:55, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not terribly interested in debating this here. I don't think the category is "necessary". Very little in Wikipedia is necessary. It's merely a convenience for browsing. I see it as part of the overall schemes of Category:Czechoslovak people by ethnic or national origin and Category:People of German descent. It holds a subcategory, Category:German expatriates in Czechoslovakia; such expatriates categories are routinely placed in the ethnic or national descent categories for convenience of navigation. If someone was a national of Czechoslovakia, they were Czechoslovak, and there are usually citations that describe them as such. The fact that individuals don't like their national status is fairly common. And as I said, whether or not Category:Sudeten-German people belongs as a subcategory is a separate issue. What you call "deprecation" of categories sounds like simply out-of-process emptying and deletion, which is typically considered disruptive behaviour and can therefore lead to blocks, so I suggest you don't do it anymore. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:43, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- Comment - The category would be acceptable if it was limited in scope to the post war, as in Category:Czechoslovak people of German descent (1948-1992). RGloucester (talk) 23:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not particularly interested in defending it, no. Not here. That's kind of what WP:CFD is for. Neither you nor I are "the community". Unlike some users you may find, I'm not totally in love with all of my WP creations. I don't defend them to the death. I can change my opinions and perspectives. I don't always see everything in black and white terms. Anyway, you keep addressing the Sudeten German issue—as I've said (3rd time now)—whether or not Category:Sudeten-German people belongs as a subcategory to the category in question is a separate issue from whether the category should exist. Regarding the other issue you raise—expatriate categories are included in the parent ethnic or national descent categories for navigational convenience, not as a matter of abstract "truth". Regarding which Czechoslovakia—my understanding is that all categories for Category:Czechoslovak people refer to Czechoslovaks for the entire existence of the state by that name. Finally, I don't think the category is "arbitrary", as you suggest. Please, if you have concerns about it—nominate it for deletion or renaming or whatever it is you want. Just don't manually empty is and "deprecate" it unilaterally. Let the community decide. I know you were not trying to be discourteous—not a problem. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, I shall, I shall. But I simply wondered if the creator of and sole contributor to said category had a good reason to be creating such a category. I never meant to be discourteous, &c. &c. I was merely trying to understand, because there might have been justification that I had missed. If CfD can be avoided, then that is usually preferable. I apologize for any malcontent or malevolence my rather sharp words and actions may have furnished upon you. I shall forward my thoughts to CfD, as swift as I can. RGloucester (talk) 00:12, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I know—it's always good to ask the person who created it before a nomination, and I don't take offence at that. I have given my good reasons. I suppose I am crusty because of the attempted deprecation. That sort of thing bugs me. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:18, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
- One request, though. I've seen that you have been adding various people to the category today. Those you've added, however, are already in the Sudeten Germans category. I see no reason to add them to the parent category, as they are already part of the sub-category. Even though it is going through CfD, which I've just posted, if the category is going to be around for a while in current form, I'd make that suggestion. RGloucester (talk) 00:28, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm adding them to the category with the thought that it might be preferable to remove the Sudeten-German category as a subcategory and just include the individual articles that I view as indisputably Czechoslovak people of German descent. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:30, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
- I will do so if I must, but I hoped to avoid that. Deprecation is a common technique, however harsh. Can you explain, though, why you think it is necessary? The problem is, you the "German situation" in the Czechoslovak Republic was very different than any other ethnicity. Lumping them as "Czechoslovak people" would be considered offensive by the people themselves, more than likely, and factually incorrect. I can go further into detail, but that's not my concern. Why do you think it is necessary? RGloucester (talk) 23:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Sto:lo CfR error
Don't know what I did wrong, see today's nominations......filled out a template wrong, and didn't understand how to make the subcategory's template point to the right section.....Skookum1 (talk) 04:53, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
- Fixed those. That's a common struggle to get those links right. Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
another multiple CfR, unsure how to do this right
per my problems with doing more than one cat at a time, another group in need of moving at the main cat and subcats of Category:Chilliwack_(city), which should simply be Category:Chilliwack. The "city" disambiguator is only used elsewhere in BC to distinguish district municipalities from cities at the core e.g. North Vancouver (district municipality) and North Vancouver (city). Don't know why it was included here. There used to be a District of Chilliwhack [sic] but the city and district were amalgamated a long time ago; and would have been a different title even if it had existed still, barring a few complicated hatnotes that is. Hate to be lazy on my part, but I get screwed up with the templates; you mind either just putting these up or walking me through it so all the five items wind up in the same sectionSkookum1 (talk) 08:09, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
- It's probably used on the category because the article is at Chilliwack (city). The article would have to be changed first. Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
- Hm, that Chilliwack dab page was my fault, I think, back when making dabs for BC e.g. Chilcotin (region) and Lillooet. The comma-province-but-not-if-unique article-name convention for primary uses wasn't really around at that point...or I didn't understand it; that page should be Chilliwack (disambiguation) and Chilliwack should be the city article. There's some Canadian admins can expedite this I'm sure, I'll be back.Skookum1 (talk) 13:40, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Why are "guidelines" treated as ironclad rules? Re native ethnonym CfRs....
I took this up with Kwami, who changed the main articles recently, with middling results; now those results are being used to propose unworkable catnames (by people familiar with neither the place nor the people in question). Please see User_talk:Kwamikagami#CfRs_on_Nuxalk.2C_Sto:lo_and_St.27at.27imc_categories and I know you've already noted the CfRs from today and yesterday. NorthAmNative and WPCAN are both kinda quiet right now, but it seems to me if a guideline isn't working, or if there is reason for a series of exceptions, such as in this case, the solution is to change the guideline. As I said to Presidentman, across-the-board application of the guideline re main articles as a RULE will have very unsatisfactory results, and complications like Category:People from the Squamish people can be avoided (ditto Category:Squamish people people of course).Skookum1 (talk) 12:59, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
About Immigration to Uruguay categories
Hi Good Olfactory. I have been busy with several articles related to immigration in Uruguay and I tried out some new categories, for instance: Category:Spanish immigration to Uruguay, Category:Lebanese immigration to Uruguay, etc. Recently I realized that you "emptied" several of these categories. I do not really understand the reason, as these categories were meant for "articles on the history of XX-Uruguayan people, culture, traditions and institutions. XX-Uruguayans are citizens of Uruguay who were born in XX, or who are of XX descent."
Maybe the name itself of the categories is not the best one, and I should have named them, say: "Lebanese diaspora in Uruguay", or "Lebanese-Uruguayan history", etc. You are an Administrator, you are able to rename categories - please, would you be so kind and help with this issue? I would be very grateful for your consideration. Best regards, --Fadesga (talk) 22:31, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
controversial speedies should be reverted....lack of due process
I'm getting really frustrated by my attempts to fix the categories (and now a template) that have been affected the the speedy move of the main Skwxwu7mesh article to Squamish people, which was used as the premise for the category and template move, and has other bad article-name consequences such as Squamish history and Squamish culture. Shouldn't speedies which were made in error, and without consulting the creator of the cat/template in question, be reverted automatically? There was no notification template on any of the cats or articles in question, the changes were made by fiat and now the usual bogged-down-in-inanities rule-invoking/conficting is being used to thwart restitution of the problems created by these allegedy non-controversial changes; they were controversial and should have been disallowed in the first place. And what do I get for trying to remedy the problem? Accusations, insults, patronizing comments etc.....yes I'm getting testy, my time is valuable and unlike those kibbitzing in the CfD I do know about the subject. And closely. A reversion mechanism for speedies is needed, frankly, the rigamarole of CfDs is a huge time-waster and a bit hypocritical as a procedure when the mistakes were made by those who used speedy to bypass discussion. Can't believe some of the bunk I've heard in the various CfDs these last few days.......Skookum1 (talk) 08:26, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Subcategorizing Category:People executed under the Stuarts
I am considering effectively splitting-by-subcategorizing Category:People executed under the Stuarts by England/Scotland/Ireland, because at it stands, the categorization effectively suggests that someone executed under the Stuarts was executed by England and Scotland and Ireland, which is not quite true. I wonder if you would have any objections to it. (Effectively, there would be Category:People executed by Stuart England, Category:People executed by Stuart Scotland, and Category:People executed by Stuart Ireland — with the latter not happening if there aren't enough people executed under the Stuarts in their roles as monarchs of Ireland.) --Nlu (talk) 21:27, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Squamish - > Skwxwu7mesh nomination
Not asking for your input on the CfR, just noting that I must have mistakenly included the accent-u by copy-pasting when I did the nomination; or did I? Could someone else have changed that? I haven't noticed any edits about that; as in one of my comments, towards the bottom of the CfR, I'd meant to have the non-accented version nominated......God knows where this is gonna go, though.....all the solutions seem more convoluted to me than simply using the endonym...in its anglicized, non-diacritical form, that is. This case if it goes the "wrong way" is going to set precedents for other currently-endonym-named categories IMO. Some policy/guideline needs to created in naming conventions and category names and CANSTYLE to address this properly.....cultural sensitivities may be POV to some, but they're the facts-on-the-ground in Canada. As noted in the CfR, Tsilhqot'in/Chilcotin people, Secwepemc/Shuswap people, Syilx/Okanagan people, Nlaka'pamux/Thompson people and more are going to be impacted as categories because of the RMs that changed this, unwisely, and without regard to those cultural sensitivities and "emerging realities" in BC....others in the US that might be impacted, if this is to be global, would be Category:Dineh becoming Category:Navajo people (I think there's a Category:Dineh people already, for people who are Dineh).Skookum1 (talk) 05:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, Dineh seems to have been RM'd to Navajo, pretty sure it was Dineh a few years ago....I noted on one of the CfRs that Yakama spell themselves that way to distinguish from Yakima, Washington and Yakima County, Washington.Skookum1 (talk) 05:33, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Brazil (film) talk page
Take a look at this, rather than copying and pasting the talk page contents into a new archive page, George Ho moved the talk page, thus leaving this truncated page history. That needs to be fixed, yes? ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 02:36, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, it certainly does. I'll see what I can do. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:42, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- I think that's got it—let me know if you notice that I messed anything up. Thx, Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:46, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- Looks good to me. Thanks! ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 03:17, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
- I think that's got it—let me know if you notice that I messed anything up. Thx, Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:46, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Apostille convention
I don't think your reasoning for moving this page is correct. It's full title is Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents, but it's known colloquially as the Hague convention - I don't think a colloquial or common name qualifies for initial caps as a proper noun.--ukexpat (talk) 14:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
- Few sources seem to agree with you there, nor would I, either in general or this particular case. Lots of common "short names" are capitalized - as a Brit you'll be familiar with the National Trust for Places of Historic Interest or Natural Beauty, always "National Trust". Johnbod (talk) 15:14, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
- If it's referring to a specific convention, then it qualifies as a proper noun, which are capitalized in title case in WP. If you want me to reverse it and propose it through WP:RM, I can do that, but I figured it was relatively uncontroversial. I agree with the points Johnbod makes above. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:29, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
MUNPO cat
Hi, just saw this on [[Tsimshian people] and another re Dene. Those are people articles, not government or organization ones; can't remember the name of the Coast Tsimshian tribal council right now; Dene right now is limited to NWT groups but really should be for all Athapaskans, but again it's a people category, not an organizational one. That cat as I understand what that group is, should be for organizations i.e. governments and tribal councils, not on "peoples" categories.Skookum1 (talk) 07:02, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
A bowl of strawberries for you!
Hi Good Olfactory, Keep on keepin' on! Kind regards DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 09:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC) |
broken talk page
You moved Berne Convention, but not its talk page (Talk:Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)