Faizhaider (talk | contribs) m →Minority Employees asked for make Urdu is official language in Newly Created Andhra Pradesh: Spelling/grammar correction |
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I am Not oppose Urdu! in newly created [[Andhra Pradesh]] state only Telugu is the official language. if urdu is offical language in newly created [[andhra Pradesh]] why Minority Employees asked for make Urdu is official language you just clearly read this link http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/Minority-Staff-Submits-Wish-List-to-CM/2014/07/15/article2331570.ece and you will understand by the way in andhra pradesh only 6.9% muslim population living you check this link page no 116 and you will find it ([[User:Visakha veera|Visakha veera]] ([[User talk:Visakha veera|talk]]) 18:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC)) .http://pib.nic.in/archieve/others/2011/jan/d2011010502.pdf <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Visakha veera|Visakha veera]] ([[User talk:Visakha veera|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Visakha veera|contribs]]) 18:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
I am Not oppose Urdu! in newly created [[Andhra Pradesh]] state only Telugu is the official language. if urdu is offical language in newly created [[andhra Pradesh]] why Minority Employees asked for make Urdu is official language you just clearly read this link http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/Minority-Staff-Submits-Wish-List-to-CM/2014/07/15/article2331570.ece and you will understand by the way in andhra pradesh only 6.9% muslim population living you check this link page no 116 and you will find it ([[User:Visakha veera|Visakha veera]] ([[User talk:Visakha veera|talk]]) 18:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC)) .http://pib.nic.in/archieve/others/2011/jan/d2011010502.pdf <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Visakha veera|Visakha veera]] ([[User talk:Visakha veera|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Visakha veera|contribs]]) 18:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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{{ping|Visakha veera}} Plz come with some new argument/point. This has already been raised and answered. I'll strongly suggest you read the discussion thoroughly and then make any further comment/action. That will save everybody's time & effort. Thanks--<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:green">[[User:Faizhaider|Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider]]</span></b><i><sup>[[User_talk:Faizhaider|t]]</sup><small>[[Special:Contributions/Faizhaider|c]]</small><sub>[[User:Faizhaider/Autograph_Book|s]]</sub></i> 18:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC) |
{{ping|Visakha veera}} Plz come with some new argument/point. This has already been raised and answered. I'll strongly suggest you read the discussion thoroughly and then make any further comment/action. That will save everybody's time & effort. Thanks--<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:green">[[User:Faizhaider|Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider]]</span></b><i><sup>[[User_talk:Faizhaider|t]]</sup><small>[[Special:Contributions/Faizhaider|c]]</small><sub>[[User:Faizhaider/Autograph_Book|s]]</sub></i> 18:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC) |
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{{ping|Faizhaider}} its very important! you are not understanding! is Indian express is a small blog? are you understanding? minority employees are urge cm make Urdu as official language! are you ready for legal notices? we will settle this issue in court! ([[User:Visakha veera|Visakha veera]] ([[User talk:Visakha veera|talk]]) 18:49, 10 August 2014 (UTC)) . |
Revision as of 18:49, 10 August 2014
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Invitation to vote on an article
hello. since you are an editor of the article Ammar ibn Yasir, would you be interested in voting for it to make it a featured article or not? thank you for your time Grandia01 (talk) 12:59, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
WP:FOOD Needs You!
Hi there Faizhaider! I've noticed you have yourself listed as a member of the Food and Drink Wikiproject. Unfortunately it looks like the project has been slowly sliding into inactivity except for a couple of people. That makes me a sad potato, and nobody likes a sad potato amirite?
If you'd like to turn my frown upside down, can you do two small things?
First off, go here and add {{Tick}} ( ) next to your name if you're still part of the project.
Second, go to the project talkpage and participate in a discussion about how to make the project more active, and how to go about making articles in our area of interest a lot better.
You don't want to make me cry, do you? Potatoes have a lot of eyes you know. So come on, join in! :)
— The Potato Hose 18:34, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
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Inglish
89653242 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.39.186.232 (talk) 08:33, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
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Better idea
Hey man, I think Sa.vakilian had a better idea than AfD for sorting out the hadith article mess. Check out my talk page - I think his suggestion might be the way to go and given that you're active and take an interest, we will need your help if we go that route. MezzoMezzo (talk) 12:27, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Requesting Your Mediation, Please
As Salaam Alaykum,
I would like to formally request a respected WP editor (such as yourself) to mediate in the Muawiyah I article page between my own personal efforts at improving the article to give it a three-dimensional, and above all, an ACCURATE historiographical presentation of traditional (mainly Sunni) standard Islamic literature. I have, as of recently, been under what seems to me, unfair double standards being applied by fellow WP editors Toddy1, and just within the past 24 hours, MezzoMezzo. I would sincerely like if you can find the time to read through the discussions in the Muawiyah I Talk Page (I know they are rather lengthy), between myself (Flagrantedelicto) and fellow WP editors/users Johnleeds1, Toddy1, and now MezzoMezzo. I feel that there is unfair accusations and implications toward me, while I feel that there is a clear double standard being applied in the way the article has been presented. I am now involved in, what appears to be, an unwanted edit war with MezzoMezzo. But please READ the discussion in the Muawiyah I Talk Page first and foremost, so that you may get a clear picture as to what is transpiring and my own serious concerns in regards to this matter.
I am concerned with the misrepresentation of predominantly Classical Sunni literature being labelled Shi'ite POV and being rejected even though they are bonafide cited sources. What has been happening is that what is essentially Salafi/Wahhabi-influenced POV of Caliph Muawiyah I is being misrepresented and misleadingly labelled as SUNNI perspective. Again, if you read through the discussion in the Muawiyah I Talk Page, you will get a clear picture of why I get the impression that WP editors Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo are really not manifesting an impartial participation toward the subject of Muawiyah I. Will much appreciate it if you mediate in this matter. Flagrantedelicto (talk) 05:33, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
I am a declared SUNNI. And I would like if you could carefully read through the Muawiyah I Talk Page of the current archive. I know it is a lot of material, but it is essential for you to fully understand the nature of the obvious double standard and partiality being applied by both the above MezzoMezzo, as well as Toddy1. Both of whom are essentially voicing the same positions. As for Johnleeds1, we did come to a mutual understanding which has common ground after differences of perspectives and some attrition. MezzoMezzo and Toddy1 (whom I get the strong feeling are together on this), appear to be a different matter. I would highly appreciate it. And thanks for responding. Flagrantedelicto (talk) 09:33, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
- Brother Faiz, could you maybe remind the other three editors you contacted that the stalemate is ongoing? Perhaps they're busy with real life issues, in which case we could look at WP:CONTENTDISPUTE. It's also possible that they're already checking out the talk page in question, but I was just wondering what's happening with that. MezzoMezzo (talk) 05:28, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
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Edit war on Muawiyah I
I was just going to let you know that I had posted over there but got distracted. When I wrote out the reply I typed your name using the {{user}} template but with a ":" rather than the "|". Doing that sets of the spam filter for two websites that use variations on your user name. Using the "|" works, Faizhaider (talk · contribs), though. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 11:29, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry. If you use {{User:Faizhaider}} which should show your user page you get a spam filter warning saying that I'm trying to link to http://www.smfaizhaider.co.nr and http://www.faizhaider.co.nr. Strange. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 11:56, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
- See User:CambridgeBayWeather/Sandbox for how it should work using your talk page as an example. Try remove the two nowiki marks at your user name and save. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 11:59, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
- And now there is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Three solid days of bullying, insults and incivility by User:Flagrantedelicto. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 12:23, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
- These two edtiors Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo are really on a campaign to get me blocked. This MezzoMezzo has contacted WP Admin Dianaa, and then editor Someguy1221. He seems to be on a campaign to round up as many people as he can to accomplish God knows what. I hope you had a chance to read my last two responses in the Muawiyah I Talk Page under the Edit Conflict section. In my perception, both those editors have lost a lot of credibility just by the way they are handling this and the unfounded acccusations they are hurling. Please look into this and see if a neutral WP Admin can put a halt to this rather petty campaign of maligning my contribution and effort in the Muawiyah I article. --Flagrantedelicto (talk) 02:27, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- I'll leave the request for protection as is for now and let a different admin look at it. If it looks like the others are going to start removing material then I will protect it. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 20:04, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
- There was apparently some private email exchange between the guy and some admins which resulted in his block becoming indefinite. You've been incredibly helpful and have even pointed out on that page that I misunderstood certain key policies. Could you sort of fill a double role as representing the other position on the article's content? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
June 2013
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Interested?
I was wondering whether you'd be interested in mentoring Johnleeds. He has frequently misrepresented sources and also violates due weight and riginal research. Pass a Method talk 07:20, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
First Fitna and Muawiyah I
While I did not cite any references for editing the First Fitna, I did add references for the editing I made for Muawiyah I. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.195.9.142 (talk) 09:58, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
This is a replica of an entry posted in the Muawiyah I Talk Page. It most likely will be deleted there by the WP editors, so One of my concerns is that some of the citations on this article and the one on Yazid I are really second-hand (though claimed to be first-hand). If the editor who put them there does not really know what is in the sources, he/she cannot know whether he/she faithfully represents what they say. For example, on the page on Yazid I, Flagrantedelicto added a bit saying that Tabari Volume 19 said that Yazid was a tyrant - but when I checked Tabari Volume 19 it said that rebels being besieged by government forces referred to Yazid as a tyrant.
This comment by Toddy1 is a complete lie because in this link to the excerpt to Tabari’s Volume 19 (which is a cited source in the Yazid I article), there is unequivocal documentation that Yazid I was indeed thought of as a tyrant by the chronicler Tabari. Right from the Foreward, it is stated that Tabari wrote this piece in opposition to the persona of Caliph Yazid I. See link below.[1]
And this comment by MezzoMezzo in referring to Toddy1’s original lie, is consequently a worthless conjecture based upon a bald-faced lie.
--since you already uncovered at least one instance of academic dishonesty - will take forever.
Toddy1 further did not inform anyone of the slight edit that Toddy1 did by adding a brand new link to the Shia Pen website, when the old link to Answering-Ansar.org was dead for some time now. This was to obviously plant supporting “evidence” to assist MezzoMezzo’s BAD FAITH accusation that there are copy-pasted citations in the Muawiyah I article. Granted if one does internet research, one will discover (as I had) that Answering-Ansar.org has since become Shia Pen. But the fact that Toddy1 entered this link to support MezzoMezzo’s suspicious suppositions is questionable in itself, as it was done very discreetly and Toddy1 didn’t deem it fit to inform anyone of it.
Here is a bibliography of references:
Is from al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muh. b. Jarir, ---, Ta'rikh al-rusul wa 'l-muluk, Ed. M. de Goeje, Leiden, 1879-1901.
Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani, Ahmad b. Nur al-Din (d. 852/1449) Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, 12 vols., Hyderabad, Deccan: Da'irat al-Ma'arif al- Nizamiyya, 1325-27/1907-10. Volume 5 page 110 Lisan al-Mizan, 7 vols., Hyderabad, Deccan: Da'irat al-Ma'arif al-Nizamiyya, 1329-31/1911-13.
Ibn Sa'd, Muhammad (d. 4 Jum. II 230/16 Feb. 845 C.E.), Kitab Al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, 9 vols. in 15, ed. by E. Sachau, Leiden, 1905-1940. Volume 4 page 134-135
Ibn al-Athir, 'Usd al-ghaba fi ma'rifat al-sahaba', in al-Matba's al-Wahbiya, ed. and compiled by Moustapha Wahbiar, Vol. V, 1920
al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir. Tarikh al-Rusul wal-Muluk. 5th edition. Edited by Muhammad Abu al-Fadl Ibrahim. Cairo, Dar al-Ma'arif, 1977.
Ibn Athir, 'Izz al-Din Abi al-Hasan 'Ali b. Muhammad. al-Kamil fi al-Tarikh. Vols. 1 & 3. Beirut: Dar Sadir, 1965.
Ibn Athir, 'Izz al-Din Abi al-Hasan 'Ali b. Muhammad. Usd al-Ghaba fî Ma'rifat al-Sahaba. Vol. 1. Cairo: al-Sha'b, 1970.
Ibn Hisham, Abu Muhammad 'Abd al-Malik. al-Sira al-Nabawiyya. Vol. 1, edited by 'Umar 'Abd al-Salam Tadmuri. Beirut: Dar al-Kitab al-'Arabi, 1987.
Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad. The Life of Muhammad. Translated into English by Alfred Guillaume. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1955.
Ibn Kathir, Isma 'il Abu al-Fida'. al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya. Vols. 1, 2 & 3, edited by Ahmad Abu Muslim et al. Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-'Ilmiyya, 1985.
Ibn Kathir, Isma 'il Abu al-Fida'. al-Sira al-Nabawiyya. Vol. 1, edited by Mustafa 'Abd al-Wahid. Beirut: Dar Ihya' al-Turath al- 'Arabi, 1980.
The cited sources in the Muawiyah I article which do not portray the Umayyad caliph in an unfavorable light are not so much copy-pastes, but widely circulated bibliography of Classical Sunni literature. Names of authors and works whom neither Toddy1 nor MezzoMezzo can pronounce. MezzoMezzo is not only a tinhorn “editor”, but a two-faced, underhanded, deceptive liar. One who proved to be arguably the biggest wimp in WP. Rather than accepting an invite to a debate to substantiate his arrogant claim of knowing the Arabic language better than most native speakers, he evaded and eluded the debate. Knowing full well that his bluff was called out. The following statement by MezzoMezzo could imply that his “In-Laws” are native Arabic speakers and his sources for his knowledge in Arabic—
Between my in-laws and I, we have original Arabic copies of many of the sources listed; many more are available with reliable English translations on Google Books
This article seriously needs the full participation and involvement of a WP editor such as Faiz Haider, Seyyed, and some active members of the Shi'a Islam task force. Since there is truly an absence (of not only Old School/traditional Sunni Muslim WP editors), but a genuinely neutral, objective team of editors who are working on the Muawiyah I article. The efforts of Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo are essentially worthless, as not only are they latent pro-Muawiyah POV pushers of the Salafi/Wahhabi ideology, they are unethical, deceptive, and unscrupulous. What is also evident with the editors Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo, is that there exists in them this irreverent breed of “converts” to Islam of Western culture who do not have Eastern sensitivities when propagating Salafi ideology. Who knows what ethnic hemisphere Johnleeds1 belongs to, but this editor seemed to be broadening his scope in understanding the authentic Classical Sunni Islamic literature. However, a Faiz Haider and the neutral CambridgeBayWeather are seriously need to keep the deceptive hypocrites Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo in check.
As mentioned earlier in this talk page, the biggest masquerade and charade by proponents of Salafism, is that many conceal it under the label of Sunni Islam. Since the Sunni are the majority, there has been an unrelenting effort to convert mainstream Sunnis to Salafism. And due to the slow but steady awakening of mainstream Sunnis of the methods and tactics of the Salafi ideology, the Salafis disguise themselves under the Sunni label. Consequently, they are relentlessly misrepresenting Sunni Islam and deliberately misleading the public into thinking Salafism is Sunni Islam…When this is most certainly not the case. Wikipedia has been the victim of this deceit and encroachment. And if there are any WP Muslim editors who have any sense of integrity, self-respect, and personal honour, then they should at least try to rectify this misleading representation.
In Saudi Arabia, the homeland and birthplace of Salafism, most all published works of Classical Islamic authors are censored and edited. Anything that does not fit in with the Salafi/Wahhabi aqeedah or religious conviction, is edited out. This is a fact to which anyone who is a non-Salafi, and who has travelled and lived in KSA knows. The Salafis have spent the past half-century vigourously establishing publishing companies all throughout North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Arabian Peninsula (including the Persian Gulf states), Syria, Jordan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, India, and Pakistan, to publish their edited (i.e., tampered) versions of Classical Sunni literature so it fits in with their aqeedah. That is why the earlier publications of Classical Sunni literature from the first half of the 20th Century (not the latter half), and the 18th and 19th Century publications carry the authentic, untampered works.
The indefinitely blocked editor Flagrante Delicto was blocked for the specific reason by the underhanded, unscrupulous, and cowardly efforts of Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo. MezzoMezzo is counting on this very statement he made to deceptively manipulate the Muawiyah I article—
Remember, most Wikipedia editors have never heard of any of these books. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.150.223.177 (talk) 00:36, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Muawiyah I Article
This is a replica of an entry posted in the Muawiyah I Talk Page. It most likely will be deleted there by the WP editors, so I replicated it in this talk page. Please don't mind. There will be no further posts in this talk page by me after this.
One of my concerns is that some of the citations on this article and the one on Yazid I are really second-hand (though claimed to be first-hand). If the editor who put them there does not really know what is in the sources, he/she cannot know whether he/she faithfully represents what they say. For example, on the page on Yazid I, Flagrantedelicto added a bit saying that Tabari Volume 19 said that Yazid was a tyrant - but when I checked Tabari Volume 19 it said that rebels being besieged by government forces referred to Yazid as a tyrant.
This comment by Toddy1 is a complete lie because in this link to the excerpt to Tabari’s Volume 19 (which is a cited source in the Yazid I article), there is unequivocal documentation that Yazid I was indeed thought of as a tyrant by the chronicler Tabari. Right from the Foreward, it is stated that Tabari wrote this piece in opposition to the persona of Caliph Yazid I. See link below--
The History of Al-Tabari: Vol. XIX (The Caliphate of Yazid bin Muawiyah). Al-Tabari, Muhammad ibn Jarir. (English Translation by I. K. A. Howard). State University of New York Press. http://www.scribd.com/doc/114186278/Karbala. (Pg. 7). http://www.alsunnahfoundation.org/Academy/Karbala.pdf.
And this comment by MezzoMezzo in referring to Toddy1’s original lie, is consequently a worthless conjecture based upon a bald-faced lie.
--since you already uncovered at least one instance of academic dishonesty - will take forever.
Toddy1 further did not inform anyone of the slight edit that Toddy1 did by adding a brand new link to the Shia Pen website, when the old link to Answering-Ansar.org was dead for some time now. This was to obviously plant supporting “evidence” to assist MezzoMezzo’s BAD FAITH accusation that there are copy-pasted citations in the Muawiyah I article. Granted if one does internet research, one will discover (as I had) that Answering-Ansar.org has since become Shia Pen. But the fact that Toddy1 entered this link to support MezzoMezzo’s suspicious suppositions is questionable in itself, as it was done very discreetly and Toddy1 didn’t deem it fit to inform anyone of it.
Here is a bibliography of references:
Is from al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muh. b. Jarir, ---, Ta'rikh al-rusul wa 'l-muluk, Ed. M. de Goeje, Leiden, 1879-1901.
Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani, Ahmad b. Nur al-Din (d. 852/1449) Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, 12 vols., Hyderabad, Deccan: Da'irat al-Ma'arif al- Nizamiyya, 1325-27/1907-10. Volume 5 page 110 Lisan al-Mizan, 7 vols., Hyderabad, Deccan: Da'irat al-Ma'arif al-Nizamiyya, 1329-31/1911-13.
Ibn Sa'd, Muhammad (d. 4 Jum. II 230/16 Feb. 845 C.E.), Kitab Al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, 9 vols. in 15, ed. by E. Sachau, Leiden, 1905-1940. Volume 4 page 134-135
Ibn al-Athir, 'Usd al-ghaba fi ma'rifat al-sahaba', in al-Matba's al-Wahbiya, ed. and compiled by Moustapha Wahbiar, Vol. V, 1920
al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir. Tarikh al-Rusul wal-Muluk. 5th edition. Edited by Muhammad Abu al-Fadl Ibrahim. Cairo, Dar al-Ma'arif, 1977.
Ibn Athir, 'Izz al-Din Abi al-Hasan 'Ali b. Muhammad. al-Kamil fi al-Tarikh. Vols. 1 & 3. Beirut: Dar Sadir, 1965.
Ibn Athir, 'Izz al-Din Abi al-Hasan 'Ali b. Muhammad. Usd al-Ghaba fî Ma'rifat al-Sahaba. Vol. 1. Cairo: al-Sha'b, 1970.
Ibn Hisham, Abu Muhammad 'Abd al-Malik. al-Sira al-Nabawiyya. Vol. 1, edited by 'Umar 'Abd al-Salam Tadmuri. Beirut: Dar al-Kitab al-'Arabi, 1987.
Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad. The Life of Muhammad. Translated into English by Alfred Guillaume. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1955.
Ibn Kathir, Isma 'il Abu al-Fida'. al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya. Vols. 1, 2 & 3, edited by Ahmad Abu Muslim et al. Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-'Ilmiyya, 1985.
Ibn Kathir, Isma 'il Abu al-Fida'. al-Sira al-Nabawiyya. Vol. 1, edited by Mustafa 'Abd al-Wahid. Beirut: Dar Ihya' al-Turath al- 'Arabi, 1980.
The cited sources in the Muawiyah I article which do not portray the Umayyad caliph in an unfavorable light are not so much copy-pastes, but widely circulated bibliography of Classical Sunni literature. Names of authors and works whom neither Toddy1 nor MezzoMezzo can pronounce. MezzoMezzo is not only a tinhorn “editor”, but a two-faced, underhanded, deceptive liar. One who proved to be arguably the biggest wimp in WP. Rather than accepting an invite to a debate to substantiate his arrogant claim of knowing the Arabic language better than most native speakers, he evaded and eluded the debate. Knowing full well that his bluff was called out. The following statement by MezzoMezzo could imply that his “In-Laws” are native Arabic speakers and his sources for his knowledge in Arabic—
Between my in-laws and I, we have original Arabic copies of many of the sources listed; many more are available with reliable English translations on Google Books
This article seriously needs the full participation and involvement of a WP editor such as Faiz Haider, Seyyed, and some active members of the Shi'a Islam task force. Since there is truly an absence (of not only Old School/traditional Sunni Muslim WP editors), but a genuinely neutral, objective team of editors who are working on the Muawiyah I article. The efforts of Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo are essentially worthless, as not only are they latent pro-Muawiyah POV pushers of the Salafi/Wahhabi ideology, they are unethical, deceptive, and unscrupulous. What is also evident with the editors Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo, is that there exists in them this irreverent breed of “converts” to Islam of Western culture who do not have Eastern sensitivities when propagating Salafi ideology. Who knows what ethnic hemisphere Johnleeds1 belongs to, but this editor seemed to be broadening his scope in understanding the authentic Classical Sunni Islamic literature. However, a Faiz Haider and the neutral CambridgeBayWeather are seriously need to keep the deceptive hypocrites Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo in check.
As mentioned earlier in this talk page, the biggest masquerade and charade by proponents of Salafism, is that many conceal it under the label of Sunni Islam. Since the Sunni are the majority, there has been an unrelenting effort to convert mainstream Sunnis to Salafism. And due to the slow but steady awakening of mainstream Sunnis of the methods and tactics of the Salafi ideology, the Salafis disguise themselves under the Sunni label. Consequently, they are relentlessly misrepresenting Sunni Islam and deliberately misleading the public into thinking Salafism is Sunni Islam…When this is most certainly not the case. Wikipedia has been the victim of this deceit and encroachment. And if there are any WP Muslim editors who have any sense of integrity, self-respect, and personal honour, then they should at least try to rectify this misleading representation.
In Saudi Arabia, the homeland and birthplace of Salafism, most all published works of Classical Islamic authors are censored and edited. Anything that does not fit in with the Salafi/Wahhabi aqeedah or religious conviction, is edited out. This is a fact to which anyone who is a non-Salafi, and who has travelled and lived in KSA knows. The Salafis have spent the past half-century vigourously establishing publishing companies all throughout North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Arabian Peninsula (including the Persian Gulf states), Syria, Jordan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, India, and Pakistan, to publish their edited (i.e., tampered) versions of Classical Sunni literature so it fits in with their aqeedah. That is why the earlier publications of Classical Sunni literature from the first half of the 20th Century (not the latter half), and the 18th and 19th Century publications carry the authentic, untampered works.
The indefinitely blocked editor Flagrante Delicto was blocked for the specific reason by the underhanded, unscrupulous, and cowardly efforts of Toddy1 and MezzoMezzo. MezzoMezzo is counting on this very statement he made to deceptively manipulate the Muawiyah I article—
Remember, most Wikipedia editors have never heard of any of these books. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.150.223.177 (talk) 00:39, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up
Hi,
First of all thanks for the tips and pointers. I am new to wikipedia so I didn't really know how to sight my sources. Thank you for your guidance. I am not finished constructing the Malik Al-Ashtar page (still have a lot more information about him that needs to be known). In addition, I am planning on bringing more sources to add to the article. I have a quick question, you said that ""there is lot of content without any reference" which ones do you want me to reference because most of the sentences are referenced unlike the vary previous one (before I started editing). Furthermore, I have provided a link to the lecture which is audio not video (however I can link video if you want). As for the book by Sayyid, Kamāl I have linked an ebook version to the external links, so that people could read it for themselves if they don't believe the content. I understand that there are some linking issues that i will fix but overall I know that the references are reliable (and valid). Almost every sentence is referenced but if you want more I can provide it.
By the way thank you for reverting Fadrulhisham edit. And also I have a question. There is a article about one of the companions of Imam Ali who's name is spelled wrong. The wikipedia title is Meesam Tammar. However, his name was Maythem Al-Tammar. Tammar was not his last name it was a title that means the date seller or palm tree because he use to sell dates. The article uses the right spelling but the title is wrong. Since I am new to wikipedia I don't know how to change it. But I have suggested in the talk page to change the article title.
Once again thanks for the help and suggestion. I will improve the page (Malik Al-Ashtar). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zabranos (talk • contribs) 01:48, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
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A barnstar for you!
The Teamwork Barnstar | |
Thanks for alway helping me. May God bless you. (In specific thanks for listening listening to my suggestion about changing Uwais al-Qarani's page title) Zabranos (talk) 19:38, 1 July 2013 (UTC) |
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Thank you
Thanks for the info and teaching meZabranos (talk) 19:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks once again, I didn't know that the triangle button moved pages.
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Thanks for supporting me on Maytham's article. Really appreciate it! Hope to help you in the future. :) Zabranos (talk) 07:10, 12 July 2013 (UTC) |
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Question
Just a quick question, does wikipedia allow dialogs, quotations, and/or primary sources? Thank you for your time. Zabranos (talk) 05:58, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
- So should I take out the dialogs from the article Maytham al-Tammar or should I leave them in their and just add more secondary sources? Zabranos (talk) 06:52, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
The dialogs come from the book and lecture that its referenced to, word for word. Qwyrxian says wikipedia does not allow dialogs or primary sources at all but I just want to confirm that with you. If not then I'll regretfully remove it. Even though I believe that the diolog should not be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zabranos (talk • contribs) 11:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
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Article being constructed
Faiz thanks for your help. Faiz please don't remove the primary sources yet from the article we are constructing. Leave the tags: non-primary source needed, third-party source needed, tags for the moment but don't remove the text yet. Wait until every one is free and we all be reviewing all the content and try to make sense of it. Thanks --Johnleeds1 (talk) 18:33, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi once again
Hi,
Could you please move the article Abd Allah ibn Abbas to Abdullah ibn Abbas because its is misspelled. The proper spelling is Abdullah which means slave of Allah not Abd Allah. Abdullah is the proper arabic as well. Thanks! And keep up the hard work, love to read your edits. Zabranos (talk) 11:31, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
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Thank you
Thanks so much for the source! I will make sure to include it in the article. If you come across more sources could you please let me know. And thanks once again. Hope to hear from you soon. Zabranos (talk) 11:45, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter - September 2013
- Posted by Northamerica1000(talk) 02:03, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
WP:Food
It would be appreciated if you joined in the conversation occurring at WT:Food regarding the layout and presentation of the project's main page. Northamerica1000(talk) 03:30, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
September 2013
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Abu Yusuf Riyadh ul Haq
I hope you are well. Any chance you could look at this page? One editor seems intent on making it into a fan page and adding unreferenced, or poorly referenced, material. My regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 19:32, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Waris Ali Shah
Hi, I saw your deletion template on the article Waris Ali Shah, since you put it there I had done some additions based on RS and think that the deletion template should be removed. Please have a look on the article and if you agree with me then we can have deletion template removed from there. Thanks.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 22:07, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
- User:Faizhaider, the work you did on that article is stupendous and just the sort of sourcing work needed; prior to that, I really didn't think the subject was notable or that some of the material on there was true. Good job, and I removed the template. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:04, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Abu Dhar al-Ghifari
Peace be to you, I added sources to prove the points made about Abu Dhar being exiled by Uthman and being a shia please take a look Talk:Abu Dhar al-Ghifari. Let me know if I did it right or if I need more info. Zabranos (talk) 04:34, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi
Waqi55 reverted the edit claiming "the quoted sources do not mention "starvation", "ahl al-bayt", "hejazi", "opponents" as an excuse to remove to Abu Dhar being exiled by Uthman and being a Shia. He is really starting to tick me off. I also added more sources. Please reread the talk page section because he has added comments to it.
Hi Again
Do you think that the picture I added to Talk:Fatima (vary last sub section) should be added to the article. If so could you write a comment supporting the idea cause User:AsceticRose keeps deleting it. Thanks once again. (you can delete this comment after reading it) -Zabranos
October 2013 Wikification Drive
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Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter - October 2013
- Delivered by Northamerica1000(talk) 21:01, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
Goodbye
Thanks for everything, I decided to leave wikipedia because of many reasons. Sorry for anything I have done to hurt you. It was a good run and experience. Please take great care of the following pages.
- Nobandegan
- Qays ibn Sa'd
- List of Islamic Personalities Revered by Shias
- List of Imam Ali ibn Husayn Zayn al-Abidin's companions
- Malik al-Ashtar
- Kumayl ibn Ziyad
- Maytham al-Tammar (in progress)
- Sulaym ibn Qays
- Bilal ibn Rabah (in progress)
- Imam Ali ibn Husayn (in progress)
- Imam Musa al-Kadhim (in progress)
- First Fitna
- Battle of Jamal
- Abu Bakr (Please make sure no one deletes the issue/clean up tags because the article is a mess)
- Syeda Fatima bint Muhammad
- Abu Dhar al-Ghifari (make sure no one deletes the cause of death or political party. Keep Wiqi55 in check)
- List of Sahabah that did not give Bay'ah to Abu Bakr
- Hujr ibn Adi
- Template:Shia Imams
- Salman the Persian
- And all the companions of Ali
Zabranos (talk) 00:17, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- Faiz it was nice working with you, sorry to see you leave. --Johnleeds1 (talk) 22:25, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
Nice to hear you are back. --Johnleeds1 (talk) 15:09, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
List of Indian currency
My humblest apologies. I just simply didn't pay enough attention to what I was reverting there. You are 100% correct that that information should stay in the article. Thank you for being patient with me despite my incompetence. Qwyrxian (talk) 09:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
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Defective dab solver script
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Salam from nerrf
:)
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Marium -uz-zamani converted Islam
Dr you did wrong edit about Marium-uz-zamani Aka jodha bai.. she was Hindu aymt1 and Akbar the great did her that right to do her wish. but at the mid age she converted islam by her own willing. A single men or women can take feet in Holy Makka without accepting Islam from the beginning of this World.Akbar the great did many thing for her. and she also fall in love with him. why you change wiki info with fake info from serial — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSA786 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
- What are you talking about? If you are refering to this edit then it was to disambiguate: Sambhar → Sambhar, Rajasthan using Dab solver, and this is my only edit on the article Mariam-uz-Zamani. I think you have confused me with Chewings72 who reverted your edits.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 11:34, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
dr,bro I am the student of University of Oxford .going to take P.H.D about History. Here I did those edit, it was 100% right. because That facts had strong evidence and cules.which All prof of International University is accepted that Marium uz zamani was at1 hindu but later She converted Islam. and most strong clues.. one cule is visiting Makka Sarif...
I know you are a muslim. but I cant understand that why? muslim are doing this wrong
From the begging Non muslim never could allow in holy #Makka sarif .
2nd,did you know Din-I-Ilahi Actually wasn't any religion and Akbar the great never exposed it as religions International University discovered that without any documents and prayer system there had nt any religious in this word and never will be...especially without documents how can make a religious with just only 10 virtues which all of have into Quran..... there have many others things which normal people cant think and dont want to discover ..
So dr I did right edits.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSA786 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
- That's very good that you are "student of University of Oxford" and you are "going to take P.H.D about History". I don't have any issues whtsoever with your edits at article 'Marium uz zamani', and others who have expressed concerns have explicitly said why they have concern and how you can address their concern. If you belong to such high academic circles such as Oxford and are a PhD scholar then you must be aware that what you claim should be backed by verifiable, reliable, non-POV, third-party academic source(s); and Wikipedia is very clear about importance of citations especially about Biographies and that to of sensitive personalities like 'Marium uz zamani'. For me the name change itself is one of the proofs that she accepted Islam (in some form or other) and she was cremated as per Muslim rites, but, that said until I have Third-Party, RS, NPOV, verifiable academic sources to back my claim it will be considered as POV & OR and atleast it will be tacked such or it may be removed imediately as per WP policies. So my simple suggestion to you "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" i.e. if you want to edit Wikipedia you'll have to do as per WP guidelines. Thanks & happy editing! --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 06:12, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
bro i added a ref after your complain about me.. there have already many web article and sites where clearly said that only line "she converted Islam later " if you want i can add all he site of India.though i added "jhems Matrix's " over viewed popular and conformed by UK/USA/Canada and most of countries prof... He also took in his site the letter of king Philip and Akbar the great ....
and i said sorry to you because of that i observed wiki editor uses as ref just nly Indian article.. ohh my GOD...Indian Articles though that was written after may be "jodha Akbar Bwood movie" yakkk... i hate Bollywood. Do you know that others countries never believe on Indian an single Article.because we all know that India,pakistan,Bangladesh that 3 zone is full of crimes and lair Government systems they just knew that how to damage others religions and people though norman public is as usual well in their countries.i remained yet that what type of fight was happened after released of JOdha Akbar Bollywood movie INdian rajputs Uncle and others totally refused that they had a daughter who became Empress.Ohhh God so laughable.they are just live in fake proud which will break one day by Almighty God.
By the way. nice to talk with you..
Thank you Shera Merry — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSA786 (talk • contribs) 07:29, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for your efforts. The editors involved will look into the changes and will decide further course of action. As for me, although I'm interested in Mughal History of Indian Subcontinent, I seldomely edit WP articles related to them, and whenever I do edit these articles it is usually for some fixes e.g. disamb, etc I rarely chnage much content there. So, I still fail to understand why you are involving me into this debate as I'm one party. I have already told you baseline WP policies regarding content & citations, if you want any further help/guidance plz let me know I will be more than happy to do so but plz excuse me regarding content dispute as I'm already having lot on my plate and I'm barely able to attend my watchlist and do other tasks on my list. Thanks.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 11:52, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Opinion
I was wondering whether you thought such removals were appropriate: [1], [2], [3], or how about hierarchichal orders such as this ? Pass a Method talk 20:54, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
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Sadhu Yadav
Sorry, I removed more than was intended at Sadhu Yadav. I was trying to fix a WP:BLP issue where the sourcing doesn't match the statements (and the statements seemed pov-y). Hopefully, all is ok now. - Sitush (talk) 18:52, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Child imam quote
Come on faiz thats not fair. You removed my large quote that criticizes child imams but you keep a large quote that defends the occultation!! To be fair you should do 1 of 2 things: 1) also remove the large occultation quote from the article or 2) put both child imam & occultation quotes down in the reference section.Suenahrme (talk) 23:57, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Date conversion from Hijri year to Western
I realise that the date conversions are only approximate but there were two problems with the original edit. First as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Julian and Gregorian calendars says that they should be given in the Julian calendar. For some reason the birth date was given as the Gregorian calendar but the death date in Julian. Second in the section above, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Era style says not to change back and forth between CE and AD. Also it seems more neutral to give Western dates as CE in Islamic (and other cultures) articles rather than the Christian dating but that may just be me. I should have left an edit summary as to why I changed it back. I've updated it with Julian date for the birth and, as I said, didn't need to change the death. I also used a reference. It is the easiest of the calendar converters I've seen and unlike some others doesn't baulk at using early dates. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 12:13, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
- No problem. Glad we got it sorted. It really would have helped if I had left a proper edit summary. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 12:35, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
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January 2014
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The Super Disambiguator's Barnstar is awarded to the winners of the Disambiguation Pages With Links monthly challenge (bonus list section) who have gone above and beyond to remove ambiguous links. This award is presented to Faizhaider, for successfully fixing 1994 links in the bonus list challenge of December, 2013. Rcsprinter (warn) @ 23:38, 3 January 2014 (UTC) |
mutah nikkah
you seem to think that by your gross biased and one sided article you have somehow done some favour to Islam. You seem to be a very minded way to looking at Islam. I wonder what it will take for you put on to the your article the following points about verse 4:25:
Verse 4:25 says that a desperate man is advised to marry a slave girl or be patient. Why is mutah not mentioned for him? If verse 4:24 is about mutah then what is the point of verse 4:25 because mutah will be for desperate men and so why marry a slave girl?
please try to answer these points honestly as otherwise you will be stating a lie about the Quran and hiding a verse which is totally against islam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.129.21 (talk) 21:32, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Helixsoft's Token of Appreciation
Token of Appreciation | |
You are the best user ever, and I would like to thank you for your edit to List of KDE applications. You truly are the cream of the crop. Yours truly, Helixsoft (talk) 16:40, 6 January 2014 (UTC) |
Begum Hazrat Mahal article quotation section
Thanks for adding references for the Begum Hazrat Mahal article quotes. Can you please check the formatting of the section per WP:QUOTATIONS especially WP:QUOTEFARM and WP:LONGQUOTE. The cquote format should only be used when you want to highlight a quote from a prose section: "For pull quotes (quotes of the article text used to highlight a section) the {{Cquote}} template can be used."
If you want to format the quotes into a table, you can do something like Gangnam_Style_in_popular_culture#Politicians where it lists the notable figure, their position, and then the quote (with reference). Thanks. -AngusWOOF (talk) 16:49, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Original Barnstar | |
For all-round good work but especially the great
Ð특ɱβïĞ∪ãŤîőŋ work. Green Giant (talk) 20:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC) |
A barnstar for you!
The Original Barnstar | |
Hi,
appreciating you for your untiring work in editing articles. Work2win (talk) 20:55, 9 January 2014 (UTC) |
Read Hasan al-Utrush Then
Who is "‘Umar al-Ashraf ibn ‘Alī Zayn al-‘Ābidīn" ?
68.100.160.250 (talk) 03:25, 16 January 2014 (UTC) ‘Alī Zayn al-‘Ābidīn has another son, called ‘Umar al-Ashraf 68.100.160.250 (talk) 03:27, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Do not add ref again in Template:Minority Concentrated Districts in India ! It causes a 90 errors in Category:Pages with missing references list. Please purge every of the Indian ...district pages damaged by your revert ! Thanks --Frze > talk 06:51, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
I don't think we can use the description of the tasty food on a disambiguation page. I'm sure it belongs somewhere.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:35, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
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Request for Participation - Article for Deletion (Live Wire Radio)
Hello - there is currently difficulty in achieving consensus regarding the proposed deletion of Live Wire Radio. You have been randomly selected to give your opinion as to whether this article should be kept or deleted. If you have a moment, please visit the discussion page here. Thank you very much for your time and assistance. BlueSalix (talk) 18:30, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
V-1 disambiguation
I have reverted your disambiguation of V-1 on Air Force Missile Development Center. The correct link is not where I would have expected it on the disambiguation page, either. It is down in the science and technology section. I've put the correct link in its place and suggested on the disambiguation page's talk page that it needs to be clarified. Of course it makes some sense since the V in the Fokker stands for "Versuch" and the page is about a research organization. --Lineagegeek (talk) 22:37, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
Jiva Goswami
It would be best to remove the link to Anupama,as the character is just mentioned by that name in traditional biographies of Sri Jiva.Guru-45 (talk) 06:08, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
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References
Please add the full information. A Google books link on its own isn't sufficient. You need author/editor(s), title, publisher,year of publication, page number (normally vital) ISBN if possible. There's a dropdown cite template above the edit window for most users. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 16:51, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- Didn't see your last edit, but you still need page numbers. The ezosoft site fails WP:RS You've also added a book "by Wikipedians" - in other words, someone has published old versions of our articles and you've used it as a source. Could you please remove these? Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 16:57, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- Oracle of the Last and Final Miracle is self-published by Xlibris and shouldn't be used either. This is one reason why including the publisher is very important. Ghalib, Gandhi and the Gita is also self-published - Polyglot is Lulu.com. I don't think any of the websites actually meet WP:RS. Dougweller (talk) 17:05, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for you comment on my talk page. I realised these weren't all your references, just wanted to mention them as you are editing the article. It's all to easy to use references that turn out to be unreliable. I always check the publisher of books first to make sure they aren't self-published. We've got a list of such publishers. Dougweller (talk) 15:23, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
- Oracle of the Last and Final Miracle is self-published by Xlibris and shouldn't be used either. This is one reason why including the publisher is very important. Ghalib, Gandhi and the Gita is also self-published - Polyglot is Lulu.com. I don't think any of the websites actually meet WP:RS. Dougweller (talk) 17:05, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
#REDIRECT Muhammad at-Taqi (Ahmed ibn Abadullah)
Muhammad at-Taqi & Muhammad al-Taqi ARE different persons — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.164.157.184 (talk) 21:23, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
Don't use Muhammad at-Taqi for Muhammad al-Jawad
This may lead to a confusion please only use Muhammad al-Taqi for Muhammad al-Jawad
128.164.157.184 (talk) 21:27, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
February 2014
The Super Disambiguator's Barnstar | ||
The Super Disambiguator's Barnstar is awarded to the winners of the Disambiguation pages with links monthly challenge, who have gone above and beyond to remove ambiguous links. Your achievment will be recorded at the Hall of Fame. This award is presented to Faizhaider, for successfully fixing 1533 links in the challenge of January 2014. Rcsprinter (constabulary) @ 12:45, 2 February 2014 (UTC) |
Urdu braille
There are two Urdu brailles, actually, one used in Pakistan and one in India. Calling the first "Urdu Braille" and the second "Bharati Braille" are both inaccurate. — kwami (talk) 01:04, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for February 10
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Greetings
Its very good that you are editing Lucknow with all the sources but in the GA review, it is boldly mentioned that you should not 'advertise' about the city. Sentences like 'Lucknow has been one of the great centres for Muslim culture' are doing just that. Well i'm sure it must have been, but that is very old history now, almost like a tell-tale. I can give you a list of cities which are good centers for muslim culture and Lucknow is nowhere near that. So, keep up the good work but be careful. thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiboy2364 (talk • contribs) 18:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
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Need assistance
Hey salam alaikum man, I started a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Islam/Shi'a_Islam_task_force#Articles_which_include_Sunni_views_but_not_Shi.27a_views. Unfortunately most of the people listed on the project are no longer active and while it's a simple task, it might be time consuming. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
- Dude where are you? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:43, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
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May 2014 disambig contest: let's do it again!
Greetings fellow disambiguator! Remember back in February when we made history by clearing the board for the first time ever, for the monthly disambiguation contest? Let's do it again in May! I personally will be aiming to lead the board next month, but for anyone who thinks they can put in a better effort, I will give a $10 Amazon gift card to any editor who scores more disambiguation points in May. Also, I will be setting up a one-day contest later in the month, and will try to set up more prizes and other ways to make this a fun and productive month. Cheers! bd2412 T 18:47, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
Motto of the Day Help Request April 2014
→ Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
Motto of the Day (WP:MOTD) is in a state of emergency and really needs your help! There are not enough editors who are reviewing or nominating mottos at Wikipedia:Motto of the day/Nominations/In review, and this probably means that you will notice a red link or “This space for rent” as our mottos for the next weeks and months.
Please take a moment to review the nominations and nominate your own new mottos at Wikipedia:Motto of the day/Nominations/In review and Wikipedia:Motto of the day/Nominations/'Specials. Any help would be appreciated! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:13, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
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Thanking you
thank you for that humble greeting gesture. sorry i saw it today (incredibly busy, much things are new to me). I truly agree to work with you on Lucknow page and make it a GA one day, so do i wish. Once again, thank you. Wikiboy2364 (talk) 00:15, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
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Abdul Qayum
Assalamu alaykum dear brother. I hope you are well. I’m bothered by the inadequate evidence repeatedly provided by User:Ermejoso that Abdul Qayum (scholar) has a PhD from the SOAS in London. If you have time, please can you have a look. Thanks, and regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 15:46, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
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Nomination of Syed Mohammad Waris Hasan Naqvi for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Syed Mohammad Waris Hasan Naqvi is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Syed Mohammad Waris Hasan Naqvi until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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Views/Day | Quality | Title | Content | Headings | Images | Links | Sources | Tagged with… |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
378 | Abu Sufyan ibn Harb (talk) | Add sources | ||||||
447 | Twelver (talk) | Add sources | ||||||
1,059 | Islam in India (talk) | Add sources | ||||||
64 | Discovery Turbo (talk) | Add sources | ||||||
13 | Murarbaji (talk) | Add sources | ||||||
279 | Battle of Buxar (talk) | Add sources | ||||||
6 | Loha Mandi (talk) | Cleanup | ||||||
8 | Nasirabad, Raibareli (talk) | Cleanup | ||||||
10 | St. Francis' College (talk) | Cleanup | ||||||
408 | Muawiyah I (talk) | Expand | ||||||
39 | Mir Babar Ali Anis (talk) | Expand | ||||||
3,234 | Shia–Sunni relations (talk) | Expand | ||||||
848 | Women in Islam (talk) | Unencyclopaedic | ||||||
144 | Mevlevi Order (talk) | Unencyclopaedic | ||||||
1,301 | Hazing (talk) | Unencyclopaedic | ||||||
11 | Auliya (talk) | Merge | ||||||
101 | Dargah (talk) | Merge | ||||||
230 | Shahid (talk) | Merge | ||||||
844 | The Great Beauty (talk) | Wikify | ||||||
11 | Ata Hussain Fani Chishti (talk) | Wikify | ||||||
48 | Malik Deenar (talk) | Wikify | ||||||
2 | Danial Rezaei (talk) | Orphan | ||||||
2 | Roza Miletić (talk) | Orphan | ||||||
1 | Mudagandooru (talk) | Orphan | ||||||
5 | Imambara Ghufran Ma'ab (talk) | Stub | ||||||
4 | Tikait Nagar (talk) | Stub | ||||||
6 | Hasan Naqvi (talk) | Stub | ||||||
32 | Matt McColm (talk) | Stub | ||||||
5 | Hisham ibn al-Mughirah (talk) | Stub | ||||||
5 | Sultanul Madaris (talk) | Stub |
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Timing of Sahabah becoming Muslims
Isn't it funny that abu bakr is the only person mentioned who has a large section questioning the timing of his conversion? There is no dispute among Sunnis as to his early conversion. The only ones who dispute this (for obvious sectarian reasons) is the shia, who only constitute a small minority of 'muslims'. Hence their minority view should not be entertained so leniently on this article. If you have a problem with the timing of his conversion then feel free to add that on the 'shia view of abu bakr'.58.106.235.46 (talk) 00:08, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Happy First Edit Day
Urdu- Andhra pradesh
Reference: http://www.teindia.nic.in/mhrd/50yrsedu/u/47/3Y/473Y0K01.htm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andhra_Pradesh#Demographics Also see language in info box panel :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andhra_Pradesh#Early_history. Urdu is spoken in Andhra pradesh. But it is not declared as official language after bifurcation in june 2014. Svpnikhil (talk) 15:43, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Svpnikhil
- You provided following links:
- The above link gives law of 1966 and it states, "Clause 7 of the Bill empowers the Government to direct, by notification, the use of Urdu or any other language or languages in addition to the Telugu language, in such areas and for such official purposes of the State and for such periods, as may be specified in such notification."
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andhra_Pradesh#Demographics
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andhra_Pradesh#Early_history
- WP in itself can't be cited as reference.
- I have provided reference for Urdu being official language in AP, please provide reference that after division AP has dropped Urdu as official language.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 16:05, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- It's interesting that you removed this link soon after it was added here, but I guess it didn't suit your purpose, since it seems to indicate that Urdu is not an official language in post-partition AP. If Urdu was an official language in post-partition AP they wouldn't need to request that it become one. Thomas.W talk 19:12, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Thomas.W: And it's intresting that you didn't saw my next edit and edit-comment. And your statement "If Urdu was an official language in post-partition AP they wouldn't need to request that it become one.", doen't it mounts to WP:Synthesis/WP:OR when The news link just says "Urdu as the second official language in Andhra Pradesh", it dosen't elaborates if it means reinstate or continue "Urdu as the second official language in Andhra Pradesh". Your above comment and synthesis shows your POV & bias against Urdu.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:22, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not biased, I just dislike POV-pushing, of which there is a lot going on on articles relating to India. Over the past few days alone I have reverted, and in most cases warned, editors for POV-edits promoting Punjabi, Hindi, Urdu and Kannada, so it doesn't matter to me which language, religion or whatever the POV edits are pushing. I saw your next edit, BTW, and edit summary. Edit conflicts removing material do happen, and have happened a number of times to me. All of those edits involved me adding material seconds after someone else had added a post, with the diffs of my edits showing both the material I added and the material that was accidentally removed. But you didn't add any material, there was no edit conflict when you did it (the post was added five minutes before you removed it, and the next post after that was made two minutes later by Vin09 asking you why you removed it), and the diff for your edit shows that all that happened was that the previous editors post was removed. You're allowed to remove posts from your talk page, though, so don't worry, even though it reflects badly on you in this discussion. Thomas.W talk 19:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Thomas.W: I'm not pushing any POV nor deliberately removing commnets from my talk. If you would have looked for you may have seen that indeed I was refining my previous edit and have added this which was lost when my edit was reverted by Vin09 and which I reinstated in next edit. But all of this if you want to see, or you may try to corner me by your "it reflects badly on you in this discussion" stuff while you fully avoided main point of my previous edit talking about you doing synthesis/OR from the source. But you are free to not to answer or leave discussion if you want--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:51, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not biased, I just dislike POV-pushing, of which there is a lot going on on articles relating to India. Over the past few days alone I have reverted, and in most cases warned, editors for POV-edits promoting Punjabi, Hindi, Urdu and Kannada, so it doesn't matter to me which language, religion or whatever the POV edits are pushing. I saw your next edit, BTW, and edit summary. Edit conflicts removing material do happen, and have happened a number of times to me. All of those edits involved me adding material seconds after someone else had added a post, with the diffs of my edits showing both the material I added and the material that was accidentally removed. But you didn't add any material, there was no edit conflict when you did it (the post was added five minutes before you removed it, and the next post after that was made two minutes later by Vin09 asking you why you removed it), and the diff for your edit shows that all that happened was that the previous editors post was removed. You're allowed to remove posts from your talk page, though, so don't worry, even though it reflects badly on you in this discussion. Thomas.W talk 19:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Thomas.W: And it's intresting that you didn't saw my next edit and edit-comment. And your statement "If Urdu was an official language in post-partition AP they wouldn't need to request that it become one.", doen't it mounts to WP:Synthesis/WP:OR when The news link just says "Urdu as the second official language in Andhra Pradesh", it dosen't elaborates if it means reinstate or continue "Urdu as the second official language in Andhra Pradesh". Your above comment and synthesis shows your POV & bias against Urdu.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:22, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- It's interesting that you removed this link soon after it was added here, but I guess it didn't suit your purpose, since it seems to indicate that Urdu is not an official language in post-partition AP. If Urdu was an official language in post-partition AP they wouldn't need to request that it become one. Thomas.W talk 19:12, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
@Thomas.W: can comment on Talk:Andhra_Pradesh#Urdu.--Vin09 (talk) 04:44, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
Your edits on Andhra Pradesh
Hello. I have reverted your addition of a language pie to the article since it's based on pre-division census data, which is totally irrelevant in an article about post-division Andhra Pradesh. It is a well known fact that the vast majority of the Urdu-speakers in pre-division Andhra Pradesh were concentrated to what is now the state of Telangana, so your edits are balancing on the edge of being seen as POV-pushing. In other words, please stop. Thomas.W talk 15:59, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Dear Thomas, thanks for posting at my talk page. But have seen what I have done and on basis of what? Let me explain I had added pie chart which is based on data already present in the article. If you think my edit was POV then the data already present is POV too and you have not taken any step to eliminate the source data but focussed on derived pie and accused me of POV-pushing. Also, the article is full of statistics based on pre-division Andhra Pradesh, how do you plan to get rid of this POV. IMHO, by your given logic and action of removal of the language-pie we sould remove all statistics/data/derived-graphs/etc which is based on pre-division Andhra Pradesh stats. I'll suggest you restore back the language-pie or clear the article of all pre-division Andhra Pradesh stats. Thanks & happy editing.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 16:15, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- I have posted an answer on my talk page; let's keep it in one place. And no, I'm not going to restore the language pie, and I strongly suggest you don't either. Thomas.W talk 16:36, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Faizhaider: The data in the article seems to be wrong too, yes, and should be corrected as soon as new data is available (data that someone ought to be able to compile from the latest census figures, since the census data most likely includes language distribution per district...). But a large graphic language pie is far more obvious than text, and far more likely to start a larger edit war than there already is, which is why I reverted your edit. Thomas.W talk 16:28, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Ok, got your point. Then to start with I'll remove obselete language stats.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 16:48, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- This edit almost makes me believe that you want to start an edit-war. The position of Urdu as an official language in post-partion Andhra Pradesh seems to be very uncertain, yet you try to add a very visible graphic illustration based on language data from a pre-partition census, data that even I, a European with no connection to India, know can't possibly be true for post-partion Andhra Pradesh, and now this... Thomas.W talk 17:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- You can believe whatever you want, I rarely engage in edit-wars, at least I remember none in last few months. Also, you being European doesn't make you of any different status, Europeans too have POV and they may be inclined to one or other side due to any reason. FYI, the category was rather restored by me and not added. I'm just trying to restore the content which had been removed from article in frenzy of partition sentiments. I see these removals as ethnic/linguistic/communal POV-pushing. If something is uncertain than status-quo i.e. provious status should be maintained rather cleaning article by whims and fancies of few editors trying to delink post-partion AP from legacy of pre-partion AP.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:01, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- That the vast majority of the Urdu-speakers in pre-partition Andhra Pradesh lived in the districts that now make up Telangana, mainly centered around Hyderabad, and not in what is now post-partition Andhra Pradesh is not uncertain, making your attempt to add both the large graphic "language pie" based on data for pre-partition AP and the category in the diff above obvious POV-pushing. For which you will be formally warned if you continue. Thomas.W talk 18:08, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- You can believe whatever you want, I rarely engage in edit-wars, at least I remember none in last few months. Also, you being European doesn't make you of any different status, Europeans too have POV and they may be inclined to one or other side due to any reason. FYI, the category was rather restored by me and not added. I'm just trying to restore the content which had been removed from article in frenzy of partition sentiments. I see these removals as ethnic/linguistic/communal POV-pushing. If something is uncertain than status-quo i.e. provious status should be maintained rather cleaning article by whims and fancies of few editors trying to delink post-partion AP from legacy of pre-partion AP.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:01, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- This edit almost makes me believe that you want to start an edit-war. The position of Urdu as an official language in post-partion Andhra Pradesh seems to be very uncertain, yet you try to add a very visible graphic illustration based on language data from a pre-partition census, data that even I, a European with no connection to India, know can't possibly be true for post-partion Andhra Pradesh, and now this... Thomas.W talk 17:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Ok, got your point. Then to start with I'll remove obselete language stats.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 16:48, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Thomas.W: But you only said, "The position of Urdu as an official language in post-partion Andhra Pradesh seems to be very uncertain". And now you say "not uncertain". If you have source and data please enlighten me and put a fullstop to this whole conversation, if not then you should atleast agree that there are Urdu speakers in residual AP, hence, the category is valid and should be reinstated.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:32, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Where do I say that it's not uncertain? Thomas.W talk 19:42, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Thomas.W: In previous edit.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:57, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- If you read that post again you'll find that I did not say that "the position of Urdu as official language in post-partition is not uncertain", as you try to claim, I said that it is not uncertain that the vast majority of the Urdu-speakers in pre-partition AP lived in the districts that now make up Telangana. Which is something totally different. Thomas.W talk 20:04, 8 August 2014 (UTC)::
- @Thomas.W: If you have source and data "that it is not uncertain that the vast majority of the Urdu-speakers in pre-partition AP lived in the districts that now make up Telangana" please providr and put a fullstop to this whole conversation.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 20:11, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- You might be interested in this link to "Language in India". There's a table with population figures for 2003, but a quick check shows that the numbers don't add up properly so I wouldn't trust the table. The page does, however, also say that based on high numbers of Urdu speakers Urdu was a second offical language in 14 of the 23 districts in Andhra Pradesh prior to partition, all ten districts that now make up Telangana, and four of the 13 districts that make up post-partition AP. Which clearly shows that there was/is a much higher concentration of Urdu-speakers in what is now Telangana than in Coastal Andhra. Thomas.W talk 20:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Thomas.W: In previous edit.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:57, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Where do I say that it's not uncertain? Thomas.W talk 19:42, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
I've already supported it earlier, you can see the AP talk page, but User:Visakha veera provided some proofs, so took back my comment. If you also can provide the correct reference, let's keep it. You saying it is not removed, and not provided where it is kept. So, let's have it on AP talk page. Whichever is correct would be kept. Any of us may right, but the thing is correct info needs to be kept. About Telangana there is no problem they have recognised. About AP still no such news.--Vin09 (talk) 04:49, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
August 2014
Hello, I'm Vin09. An edit that you recently made to Andhra Pradesh seemed to be a test and has been removed. If you want more practice editing, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! Vin09 (talk) 17:42, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- No, the edit was not test/mistake, it was done with full knowledge. IMHO removal of the category is either mistake or POV-pushing. Can you let me know why you think it was test?
- FYI, the category was rather restored by me and not added. I'm just trying to restore the content which had been removed from article in frenzy of partition sentiments. I see these removals as ethnic/linguistic/communal POV-pushing. If something is uncertain than status-quo i.e. provious status should be maintained rather cleaning article by whims and fancies of few editors trying to delink post-partion AP from legacy of pre-partion AP.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:06, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Faizhaider:ok, so that may apply to Telangana, but as a whole in Andhra Pradesh there is no official language Urdu. Many of the organizations are asking for a review on second language to the chief minister to be considered as second language like how it was before partition. At present, you can see the AP state portal, purely updated post bifurcation which states only Telugu.--Vin09 (talk) 18:17, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Can you plz provide ref that after division AP has dropped Urdu as official language?--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:30, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Official State portal--Vin09 (talk) 18:41, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Above link is the article about "Telugu Language" and not about "official language of AP" and states that It is the state language of Andhra Pradesh. The article itself is quite old and belongs to pre-partition AP era. So, I fail to understand how it is able to define anything about status of Urdu in AP (pre or post partition).--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:55, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- It is not pre-partition, please see the website, it is the new website post parition, also see this demand for urdu.--Vin09 (talk) 18:51, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Only headers and pics of website have been changed neither content nor footer (Copyright © 2008, Government of AP.) has been changed. The news link just says "Urdu as the second official language in Andhra Pradesh", it dosen't elaborates if it means reinstate or continue "Urdu as the second official language in Andhra Pradesh".--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:08, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- It is not pre-partition, please see the website, it is the new website post parition, also see this demand for urdu.--Vin09 (talk) 18:51, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Above link is the article about "Telugu Language" and not about "official language of AP" and states that It is the state language of Andhra Pradesh. The article itself is quite old and belongs to pre-partition AP era. So, I fail to understand how it is able to define anything about status of Urdu in AP (pre or post partition).--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:55, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Official State portal--Vin09 (talk) 18:41, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Can you plz provide ref that after division AP has dropped Urdu as official language?--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:30, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Faizhaider:ok, so that may apply to Telangana, but as a whole in Andhra Pradesh there is no official language Urdu. Many of the organizations are asking for a review on second language to the chief minister to be considered as second language like how it was before partition. At present, you can see the AP state portal, purely updated post bifurcation which states only Telugu.--Vin09 (talk) 18:17, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
So, what about this news, if Urdu is the official language demand for urdu? You say that website is new, content is old, then where is the statement about Urdu in that website, the whole website is completely modified. If you want please visit this page.--Vin09 (talk) 04:29, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- You can comment on Talk:Andhra_Pradesh#Urdu.--Vin09 (talk) 04:42, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
August 2014 @ User talk:Vin09
Hello, I'm Faizhaider. An edit that you recently made to Uttar Pradesh seemed to be a test and has been removed. If you want more practice editing, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. As per Territory (country subdivision) article, "Territory is a designation for a type of political—geographic country subdivisions, used by various countries in the past and/or currently." Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:26, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- The page you provided has Territory of Alaska and state of Alaska both are different I guess.--Vin09 (talk) 18:31, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- "country subdivision" was the piece which I wanted to point to. But for arguments sake let us assume your edit-comment "... is not a coutry nor a territory, its a state)" is valid for all states but why did you removed category from Delhi? APMK, Delhi is termed either as Union Territory or National Capital Territory (NCT of Delhi). Don't you see conflict in your comment and action? And if you insist we can rename category Category:Urdu-speaking countries and territories → Category:Urdu-speaking countries and subdivisions, may then we'll be more politicall & terinalogically correct, any suggestions?--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:38, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
- Right, you can change the name of category, and about New Delhi, I removed it, may have overlooked it. You can revert it back.--Vin09 (talk) 04:23, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 08:00, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- Right, you can change the name of category, and about New Delhi, I removed it, may have overlooked it. You can revert it back.--Vin09 (talk) 04:23, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- "country subdivision" was the piece which I wanted to point to. But for arguments sake let us assume your edit-comment "... is not a coutry nor a territory, its a state)" is valid for all states but why did you removed category from Delhi? APMK, Delhi is termed either as Union Territory or National Capital Territory (NCT of Delhi). Don't you see conflict in your comment and action? And if you insist we can rename category Category:Urdu-speaking countries and territories → Category:Urdu-speaking countries and subdivisions, may then we'll be more politicall & terinalogically correct, any suggestions?--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 19:38, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
@Thomas.W: & @Vin09: Let me join above three threads here, we have been discussing the topic and thanks to all, the discussion is still sane and moving in positive direction. We have been discussing,
- Official status of Urdu in post-partition AP,
- As far as discussion has gone, still nobody was sure of status of Urdu in new AP, one party saying that after partition, Urdu is no more co-official language while other saying it is. Let us see this in context of Law and other Partition of Indian states. Urdu had been co-official language of states of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar before they were partitioned in 1999 to create seperate states of Uttaranchal & Jharkhand respectively, after partition Urdu maintined its status in UP & Bihar (in both old states, no new GO was issued affirming that) while in Uttaranchal & Jharkhand (new states) Urdu lost its status (becuase of new Official Language Acts of the new states). Now in context of AP & Telengana, AP has not issued any new GO ending co-official status of Urdu in old state (plz remember even post-Partition AP lagally & constitutionally is same AP which wast formed in 1956 all laws passed by AP Assembly & all Government Orders (GOs) of Government of AP remain applicable until repealed by new law or GO). So far no editor has produced any proof that Urdu has lost it's co-official status in new AP, there have been few news/portal links which don't say anything conclusive about discontinuation of status of Urdu as co-offical language. The news link just says "Urdu as the second official language in Andhra Pradesh", it dosen't elaborates if it means reinstate or continue "Urdu as the second official language in Andhra Pradesh". While the Official state portal even if it is new both in theme & content (and if we ignore "Copyright © 2008, Government of AP" footer) is about "Telugu Language" and not about "official/state language of AP" and states that Telugu "is the state language of Andhra Pradesh" another official portal's News Papers page lists Urdu news papers, also site is full of govt. official positions like Deputy Director (Urdu), Senior Translator (Urdu), Translator (Urdu), L.D.Typist (Urdu), etc which gives idea that co-official status of Urdu continues in new state. Intrestingly Language & Culture page says nothing about any language not even Telugu just uses term "mother language". At last I found a GO dated '27th June, 2014' i.e. issued almost two months after partition, which reads:
- G.O.Ms.No. 63 LAW (F) DEPARTMENT Dated: 27th June, 2014.
The Andhra Pradesh Public Employment (Regulation of Age of Superannuation) (Amendment) Act, 2014, will be published in the Andhra Pradesh Gazette in English, Telugu and Urdu Languages as Andhra Pradesh Act No.4 of 2014.
- Above GO clearly states that "Andhra Pradesh Gazette" is still being published in Urdu too, affirming co-official status of the Language in post-partition AP. I hope above proof gives some conclusive evidence that Urdu has not lost it's status in new AP.
- Also, in post partition AP, Urdu is second offical language in following districts (based on pre-partion GOs and reports as found in this govt. report/doc,
- * Rayalaseema : in all 4 districts of Kurnool, Chittoor, Kadapa and Anantapur.
- * Coastal Andhra : in 2 districts of Guntur, Sri Potti Sri Ramulu Nellore
- So, in a whole subregion i.e. Rayalaseema Urdu is still second official language, and enjoys same status in 2 districts of another region.
- Status of Urdu as a significant minority language,
- It is clear by another link provided by Thomas, in residual AP, Urdu is spoken by 15.1% in Kurnool, 13.9% in Prakasam, 13.7% in Kadapa, 10.3% in Anantapur, 9.8% in Guntur, 8.3% in Nellore, 8.2% in Chittoor, 5.9% in Krishna & less than 5% in other 5 districts. If we take percentages of Urdu speakers from above link and extrapolate it with stats given at List of districts in Andhra Pradesh then in new AP around 3.5 million people out of total population of 49 million speak Urdu (BTW this mounts to data research and I don't intend to put/use these figures anywhere but for purpose of giving perspective). Also AP state has it's own Urdu Academy which shows Urdu is significant minority language.
I hope I have given enough proofs and arguments to put my point, wiating for help from you guys, I stand ready to be corrected if I'm wrong, missed any info or you guys have gathered some other info. Thanks.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 07:56, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
your reference say it is published in Telugu, English, Urdu. so, English is also official language according to you. Publishing is only for the employees. Can you provide perfect proof from State government website? If you have anything to say use the talk page of AP.--Vin09 (talk) 09:23, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- It seems I erroneously assumed that people particiapating in a discussion entailing status of language in a State of Union of India will be aware of special status of English & Hindi in India especially of English when it comes to interpretation of law, communication between states and centre. Let me give some references from constitution of India,
- "As per the Article 348(3), in cases where the State has prescribed any language other than English for use in Bills or Acts passed by the Legislature 'a translation of the same in the English language published under the authority of the Governor of the State in the Official Gazette of that shall be deemed to be the authoritative text ....' in English."
- So, all Union & State communications are accompanied by English translation when State has prescribed any language other than English. So, all state publish their communications including Gazette in state/oficial language, second-official/co-official language and in English as required by Article 348(3) of Constitution of India. Publishing Gazette in English shows that the Govt is abiding by Article 348(3) of Constitution of India and in addition if it publishes Gazette in any other language apart from state/oficial language it shows special status of the language namely second-official/co-official language, like in case of Andhra Pradesh Gazette which is published in English (because of legal requirement as prescribed by Article 348(3) of Constitution of India), Telugu (because it is state/oficial language) and Urdu (because it is second-official/co-official language).--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 09:40, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Vin09: "Can you provide perfect proof from State government website?",
- I have provided proofs that Urdu is still being used as special language by Govt. of AP. The Andhra Pradesh Official Language Act, 1966 has made special provision for use of Urdu if you can proove that the act has been overruled/amnded by some another act/ordinance/govt-order please bring your proof. If you give ambigous newspaper article it is good by when I give proof from govt. records it is not okay, is it not hypocrisy? I have shown from your own links that the point which you were trying to make are not supported by those links but you don't answer that and herecome asking proof from me. I'm just trying to restore long standing data & category on the article, but it being removed on weak/futile/meagre pretexts, WP:Burden of proof lies on you to proove that after partition AP govt. has withdrawn co-official status of Urdu. Thanks.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 09:56, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
If you have anything to say, I told you to use the talk page of AP.--Vin09 (talk) 09:59, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Vin09: & @Thomas.W: Ok, I have moved discussion from my talk page to here, now can you please bring prrof that after partition AP govt. has withdrawn co-official status of Urdu.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 10:09, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
Urdu in AP
@Faizhaider: The section was getting longer, so a new section, till some of the other users have their say, please see the Government of Telangana and Government of Andhra Pradesh emblem. Watch out for languages.--Vin09 (talk) 10:18, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- @Vin09: Okay, Government of Telangana emblem has English, Telugu, Urdu & Government of Andhra Pradesh emblem has English, Telugu, Hindi. Do you mean languages in emblem have official status? But I thaught you were talking of some sort of 'perfect proof, is this your perfect proof?--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs
- than's not proof, I asked you to check that for reference, apart from English and Hindi, the others are the state languages. For the proof I gave you already the official website Ref check Languages & Culture section. You say it is not removed, I say most of the native speakers are now in Telangana not in Andhra Pradesh. Can you provide the same type of proof for Urdu on AP site. Not beyond bifurcation, I say after June 2014, is there anything on the state website, because official language is not any small thing to forget, the state website definitely updates. IF it is already exists then why this requests to the Chief minister Demand for Urdu. Also, see Talk:Andhra_Pradesh#Urdu this section where I supported Urdu. But after some proofs I took my word back.--Vin09 (talk) 10:40, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- I have already answered to your above points and provided my own which you have failed to reply. You say, "apart from English and Hindi, the others are the state languages" on what ground you have deduced this? Telangana emblem does'nt uses Hindi, what do you say about that? If all Urdu speakers are now in Telangana not in Andhra Pradesh what about 3.5 million people out of total population of 49 million speak Urdu and why AP govt. is still publishing it's Gazettes in Urdu too as I have stated in G.O.Ms.No. 63 LAW (F) DEPARTMENT Dated: 27th June, 2014. Till now you have not been able to proove that after partition AP govt. has withdrawn co-official status of Urdu, while I have shown it is still publishing it's communications in Urdu too.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 10:52, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- than's not proof, I asked you to check that for reference, apart from English and Hindi, the others are the state languages. For the proof I gave you already the official website Ref check Languages & Culture section. You say it is not removed, I say most of the native speakers are now in Telangana not in Andhra Pradesh. Can you provide the same type of proof for Urdu on AP site. Not beyond bifurcation, I say after June 2014, is there anything on the state website, because official language is not any small thing to forget, the state website definitely updates. IF it is already exists then why this requests to the Chief minister Demand for Urdu. Also, see Talk:Andhra_Pradesh#Urdu this section where I supported Urdu. But after some proofs I took my word back.--Vin09 (talk) 10:40, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- Invited to butt in I would go with Faizhaider on this one....since there has been no official announcement about removing urdu as an official language, I suppose we must continue the status quo. Thanks, ƬheStrikeΣagle 10:59, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
- So, earlier a User:Visakha veera removed, where I supported it. It's OK, now you people only decide whether to keep or not. @Faizhaider: take it as an important discussion and nothing against you. Thanks.--Vin09 (talk) 11:08, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
About Urdu Status
Hi Faizhaider you are above mention some website link is any official website page of Government of Andhra Pradesh! you are showing this reference http://www.apteacher.net/GO/GO-63-Enhancement-of-retirement-age-to-sixty-%20AP-Govt-Employees.php its just a normal website. now i am giving you link about Andhra Pradesh government orders http://goir.ap.gov.in/ can you find any Government order is in Urdu? if you find it i will accept your answer. Telugu is the only official language of Newly Created Andhra Pradesh. this is the official website of government of Andhra Pradesh http://www.aponline.gov.in/Quick%20links/HIST-CULT/languages.html and you will find the truth and i am giving another link to you http://www.ap.gov.in/Pages/LanguageCulture.aspx its all so government of Andhra Pradesh web portal! you will not find any where that Urdu is Offical language on newly created Andhra Pradesh! if you had any source about Urdu is one of the Official language in Andhra Pradesh please provide only government source not a private blog or website source (Visakha veera (talk) 20:59, 9 August 2014 (UTC))
- @Visakha veera: I'll analyze and respond your post line by line,
- you are above mention some website link is any official website page of Government of Andhra Pradesh!
- Frankly speaking, I'm not able to get what exactly you want to say here, but I assume you are saying that I have not refered to any official website page of Government of Andhra Pradesh, what abot GO, Acts of Union of India & State of AP...
- you are showing this reference http://www.apteacher.net/GO/GO-63-Enhancement-of-retirement-age-to-sixty-%20AP-Govt-Employees.php its just a normal website. now i am giving you link about Andhra Pradesh government orders http://goir.ap.gov.in/ can you find any Government order is in Urdu? if you find it i will accept your answer.
- Yes 'apteacher.net' is a normal website, so what? The link you have provided http://goir.ap.gov.in/, thanks for that, G.O.Ms.No. 63 LAW (F) DEPARTMENT Dated: 27th June, 2014 is present there if you take pain to search it, if you know, the website doesn't give permalinks to documnets but just temp-links for download so it is hard to cite from the site, somebody has to go and will the form to download & verify the citation. BTW, there all documents are in English, none even in Telugu which I was able to find. For ease, I queried the website with following parameters:
- DEPARTMENT: LAW
- SECTION : F
- GO TYPE : MS
- GO NO : 63
- and got following result,
- 1 select MS 63 27/06/2014 Service Matter ACTS - State - The Andhra Pradesh Public Employment (Regulation of Age of Superannuation) (Amendment) Act, 2014 - Publication ordered as Andhra Pradesh Act No. 4 of 2014. NO LAW F 0
- So will you now accept my answer?
- Yes 'apteacher.net' is a normal website, so what? The link you have provided http://goir.ap.gov.in/, thanks for that, G.O.Ms.No. 63 LAW (F) DEPARTMENT Dated: 27th June, 2014 is present there if you take pain to search it, if you know, the website doesn't give permalinks to documnets but just temp-links for download so it is hard to cite from the site, somebody has to go and will the form to download & verify the citation. BTW, there all documents are in English, none even in Telugu which I was able to find. For ease, I queried the website with following parameters:
- Telugu is the only official language of Newly Created Andhra Pradesh.
- Andhra Pradesh is not newly created (if you mean 2 Jun 2014) it is in contnium of Andhra Pradesh which was fromed on 1 November 1956, when the States Reorganisation Act formed Andhra Pradesh by merging Andhra State with the Telugu-speaking areas of the already existing Hyderabad State. The Andhra Pradesh Reorganisation Act, 2014, formed new new state of Telangana comprising ten districts of pre-partition Andhra Pradesh.
- this is the official website of government of Andhra Pradesh http://www.aponline.gov.in/Quick%20links/HIST-CULT/languages.html and you will find the truth and i am giving another link to you http://www.ap.gov.in/Pages/LanguageCulture.aspx its all so government of Andhra Pradesh web portal! you will not find any where that Urdu is Offical language on newly created Andhra Pradesh!
- http://www.aponline.gov.in/Quick%20links/HIST-CULT/languages.html, is the same page which was there on pre-partition AP portal (e.g. it is based on 1981 census and footer says Copyright © 2002. All rights Reserved.) with same language, by your logic then Urdu had no official status even then. http://www.ap.gov.in/Pages/LanguageCulture.aspx page says nothing about any language not even Telugu just uses term "mother language". And again AP is not newly created it is same state formed on 1 November 1956, Telangana is new state with rest of AP being residual state. When India was partitioned Pakistan was new state and India was residual state gaining seats all International bodies (including UN & ILO), Pakistan was admitted as new state to those bodies.
- if you had any source about Urdu is one of the Official language in Andhra Pradesh please provide only government source not a private blog or website source
- So, now just for sake of Urdu's status in AP you'll go off-way and deny all WP policies like WP:RS criteria and define your own just to push you POV & bias against Urdu. Anyways I have given GO ref from you "government source" website and above also I have qoted various Acts & Laws of Union of India & State of Andhra Pradesh regarding status of Languages in general and Urdu in specific.
- Finally, I'll reiterate, I'm just trying to restore long standing data & category on the article, but it being removed on weak/futile/meagre pretexts, WP:Burden of proof lies on you to proove that after partition AP govt. has withdrawn co-official status of Urdu. Till now no one has been able to proove that after partition AP govt. has withdrawn co-official status of Urdu, while I have shown it is still publishing most important document i.e. Gazette in Urdu too.
- Why did you added citation with wrong title?
- "Official Language of AP (AP Online)". AP Online Govt. Retrieved 10 August 2014.
- The portal has just title 'Languages' and path 'Home > AP Fact File > History and Culture > Languages'. This clearly shows you POV-push in support of Telugu & against Urdu & other languages.
- --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 08:14, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- see bro i am respect all language OK just show me in official website of Andhra Pradesh not in normal website ! don't make it is a issue (Visakha veera (talk) 08:41, 10 August 2014 (UTC))
- Have you even read my response above, the link you have provided http://goir.ap.gov.in/, thanks for that, G.O.Ms.No. 63 LAW (F) DEPARTMENT Dated: 27th June, 2014 is present there if you take pain to search it. And as per WP:RS you can't insist on official website of Andhra Pradesh.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 08:47, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- if Government Order is printed in a language its become official language? in your opinion English is official language of state of Andhra Pradesh! every state will officially announce their state mother tongue! show me in Andhra Pradesh Government official website as Urdu is an co official language? there is lot of different between official language and co languages! Urdu is just small minority language in newly created Andhra Pradesh! i am respecting all languages! don't think my points as bad ! (Visakha veera (talk) 09:05, 10 August 2014 (UTC))
- Have you even read the thread above, I have already replied to your point above. Let me reiterate it once again,
- "As per the Article 348(3), in cases where the State has prescribed any language other than English for use in Bills or Acts passed by the Legislature 'a translation of the same in the English language published under the authority of the Governor of the State in the Official Gazette of that shall be deemed to be the authoritative text ....' in English."
- So, all Union & State communications are accompanied by English translation when State has prescribed any language other than English. So, all state publish their Gazette in state/oficial language, second-official/co-official language and in English as required by Article 348(3) of Constitution of India. Publishing Gazette in English shows that the Govt is abiding by Article 348(3) of Constitution of India and in addition if it publishes Gazette in any other language apart from state/oficial language it shows special status of the language namely second-official/co-official language, like in case of Andhra Pradesh Gazette which is published in English (because of legal requirement as prescribed by Article 348(3) of Constitution of India), Telugu (because it is state/oficial language) and Urdu (because it is second-official/co-official language)
- You said, "can you find any Government order is in Urdu? if you find it i will accept your answer.", now when I have given the proof, you are making excuses and raising already raised & answered objections. You are not abiding by your words that proofs your anti Urdu POV & bias.
- I have provided proofs that Urdu is still being used as special language by Govt. of AP. The Andhra Pradesh Official Language Act, 1966 has made special provision for use of Urdu if you can proove that the act has been overruled/amended by some another act/ordinance/govt-order please bring your proof. I have shown from your own links that the point which you were trying to make are not supported by those links but you don't answer that and herecome asking proof from me. I'm just trying to restore long standing data & category on the article, but it being removed on weak/futile/meagre pretexts, WP:Burden of proof lies on you to proove that after partition AP govt. has withdrawn co-official status of Urdu.
- --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 17:30, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- give answer to me first GO in Andhra Pradesh are any other state in India are Printed in English so all states official language is English?if Andhra Pradesh co official language is Urdu why minority leadres meets Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh urge for make Urdu is a co official language for Andhra Pradesh. http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/Minority-Staff-Submits-Wish-List-to-CM/2014/07/15/article2331570.ece! so still government still not take any decision for making Urdu as official language of Andhra Pradesh understand? and by the way Muslim population in Andhra Pradesh is only 6.9% whole people are not speaking Urdu. (Visakha veera (talk) 17:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC))
- Are you reading my replies? It seems not, I have answered all these point in above thread(s). Either you are not reading my replies or you are not able to grasp language of my replies or you are ignoring them because they don't suite you and you don't have answers to them.
- User:Vin09 had already raised these points and I have answered them, then User:Vin09 canvased & campaiged on which User:Strike Eagle responded, following is the response (which you can find in above thread too, but because you are not taking pain to go through above thread so for you convinience I'm quoting it again),
- "Invited to butt in I would go with Faizhaider on this one....since there has been no official announcement about removing urdu as an official language, I suppose we must continue the status quo. Thanks, ƬheStrikeΣagle 10:59, 9 August 2014 (UTC)"
- after which User:Vin09, responded,
- "So, earlier a User:Visakha veera removed, where I supported it. It's OK, now you people only decide whether to keep or not. @Faizhaider: take it as an important discussion and nothing against you. Thanks.--Vin09 (talk) 11:08, 9 August 2014 (UTC)"
- I'll again ask you to thoroughly read above thread(s) and don't raise same points which have already been answered, that will safe lot of everybody's time and effort.
- Thanks.--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:32, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Minority Employees asked for make Urdu is official language in Newly Created Andhra Pradesh
I am Not oppose Urdu! in newly created Andhra Pradesh state only Telugu is the official language. if urdu is offical language in newly created andhra Pradesh why Minority Employees asked for make Urdu is official language you just clearly read this link http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/Minority-Staff-Submits-Wish-List-to-CM/2014/07/15/article2331570.ece and you will understand by the way in andhra pradesh only 6.9% muslim population living you check this link page no 116 and you will find it (Visakha veera (talk) 18:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC)) .http://pib.nic.in/archieve/others/2011/jan/d2011010502.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Visakha veera (talk • contribs) 18:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC) @Visakha veera: Plz come with some new argument/point. This has already been raised and answered. I'll strongly suggest you read the discussion thoroughly and then make any further comment/action. That will save everybody's time & effort. Thanks--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 18:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
@Faizhaider: its very important! you are not understanding! is Indian express is a small blog? are you understanding? minority employees are urge cm make Urdu as official language! are you ready for legal notices? we will settle this issue in court! (Visakha veera (talk) 18:49, 10 August 2014 (UTC)) .
- ^ The History of Al-Tabari: Vol. XIX (The Caliphate of Yazid bin Muawiyah). Al-Tabari, Muhammad ibn Jarir. (English Translation by I. K. A. Howard). State University of New York Press. http://www.scribd.com/doc/114186278/Karbala. (Pg. 7). http://www.alsunnahfoundation.org/Academy/Karbala.pdf.