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Your "use ® for the first instance of the name" idea makes sense, but in my opinion it would become redundant in articles that illustrate a long list of brand names for a drug. Maybe a concrete policy should be drafted - [[User:Dakoman|jpiper]] 01:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC) |
Your "use ® for the first instance of the name" idea makes sense, but in my opinion it would become redundant in articles that illustrate a long list of brand names for a drug. Maybe a concrete policy should be drafted - [[User:Dakoman|jpiper]] 01:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC) |
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==Temporomandibular joint disorder revert warring== |
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Hi, we've seem recently to have been revert-warring which is to be regretted. I am not clear why you disliked all or part of my edit, to I have started a discussion thread [[Talk:Temporomandibular joint disorder#Edit war re atypical symptoms]]. |
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To state as you did in an [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Temporomandibular_joint_disorder&diff=65417690&oldid=65415976 edit summary] ''"Shame on you"'', was I believe, an [[ad hominem]] attack and failed to [[WP:Assume good faith]]. Of course neck/shoulder ''"are different parts of the anatomy"'' from upper or lower back. However, regional anatomy is not the only classification system one may use when listing symptoms & causes of disease. It seemed perfectly reasonable, to me, to classify pains in these areas together as non-localised musculoskeletal pain symptoms ('localised' referring to whether local to the TMJ itself, rather than whether pain is well circumscribed in any given area, and distinct from non-pain symptoms of limited opening or clicking sounds). As such they are intriguing - pain over a disordered joint seems obvious, but not pain some distance away. Such symptoms can not be intuitively guessed upon, but rather must be identified through clinical observation/research. These non-localised symptoms warrant explanation as to their mechanism, e.g. much as for earache being due to [[referred pain]]. Also this last point repeatedly deleted with your reverts to my overall edit. |
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I look forward to your comments on the article's talk page. [[User:Davidruben|David Ruben]] <sup> [[User talk:Davidruben|Talk]] </sup> 21:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC) |
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::These arguments of yours belong on the talk page - where I have, and always do, make mine, if not entirely covered in the edit summary. I am copying these comments also to your talk page, so that you are sure to find them. You have been repeatedly deleting and obscuring the back pain symptom from the tmjd page, WITHOUT A SINGLE SOURCE TO ASSIST YOU. It is getting harder to assume good faith. It is long since time you got some sources for your repeated edits. You demanded I produce a source, and I immediately did, yet you continue to delete/obsure the fully sourced fact, while claiming to be an ignorant general practitioner (i.e."no dental training whatsoever" ([[tmjd|talk]] at DavidRuben 23:15, 28 May 2006 (UTC)) whose experience consists of little else than the six or so clients he sees a year seeking pain relief. ([[tmjd|talk]] at DavidRuben 23:15, 28 May 2006 (UTC)) [[User:Pat8722|pat8722]] 22:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC) |
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::Most importantly, lets keep the tmjd discussion on the tmjd talk page. We want all readers to have the full conversation available in one place for easy review and understanding. [[User:Pat8722|pat8722]] 22:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC) |
Revision as of 23:03, 23 July 2006
- Please create a new heading for new subjects (manually '= = xxx = ='). To respond to a message under the same subject, find the applicable heading below, press the "Edit" button on the right, and add your message to that section.
- I will always respond on your talk page.
Archives |
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Medical Education in the United Kingdom
Hi David,
Thank you for your minor fix (States -> Kingdom) in the intro of this page. I seem to have made the error whilst busily forming up these new med educ overview pages the other day. I started these pages to try to consolidate info on med ed/training as such information was spread across a number of articles (and was often quite US-specific for that matter).
I see you're a UK based GP. I am not based in the UK so would appreciate any input you may have. I have read of some exciting changes happening to UK vocational training, and it would be good to have some information on this (there is already a sizeable article devoted to entry level training: Medical school (United Kingdom).
Cheers, --Daveb 04:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
- Howdy, I was wondering if you could help clarify something. I have been told that UK General medicine is analogous to US Internal medicine. Is that strictly accurate? I was under the impression that UK general medicine included some training in pediatrics and ob/gyn, thus being more like US family medicine. Thank you for your attention. --DocJohnny 10:06, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Medicine in the UK
Thank you for your response. The differences in the categorization of subspecialties between our two nations is fascinating. And the fact that the language is similar but not identical adds quite a bit of confusion. I would be grateful if I could prevail upon you to clarify a few points. We just use the same words in different ways. We hardly ever use the word "General Medicine" except to describe family medicine. When we discuss Medicine vs. Surgery, we use only the word medicine. And our hospital departments have both a broad "Medicine" department which would include Family practice, and "Internal Medicine" which exists under "Medicine".
- In the US, we do not have the distinction between community physicians and hospital physicians that you seem to have in the UK. The distinctions are more often based on employment (private docs vs hospital employed docs). There are 3 major nonsurgical tracks in postgraduate training in the US: Family medicine (family practice), Internal medicine, and Pediatrics.
- Family Practice is a 3 year program, there are no subspecialization options.
- Internal medicine is a 3 year program with a wide variety of subspecialization options, most lasting another 2-3 years.
- Pediatrics is a 3 year program with a similar menu of subspecialty tracks as IM.
Internal medicine specialists can practice in the office, in the hospital, or both. As can pediatricians and family practitioners, although FP docs have a higher proportion of office only practice. Also the term consultant is used differently over here, as is apparently the term physician. I think even more confusion will be forthcoming since we have started hospital only practices (hospitalists).
My questions are:
- Is General Medicine (Internal Medicine) in the UK only hospital based?
- Are there pediatricians? Are they hospital based or office based?
- Are there pediatric subspecialty tracks?
- Are there office based subspecialists? ie cardiologists, gastroenterologists, oncologists...
Thank you, --DocJohnny 05:13, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
"unlike US where you seem to suggest a 3-way split of hospital doctors into Internal Medicine, Paediatrics & Surgery"
- The split is internal medicine (usually just called medicine), pediatrics, and family practice. Some basic terminology differences exist. In the US, the following holds true:
- Physician is interchangeable with doctor and applies to anyone with either the MD or DO degree in any specialty.
- Consultant is a term describing a doctor's relationship with the patient and the doctor of record, not a specific title. It is usually used to distinguish between the patient's doctor of record during that particular admission and the other doctors on the case. A patient may be admitted under a general surgeon for cholecystitis and then develop pneumonia. The surgeon would be the attending, and he can consult an internist to manage the pneumonia, the internist would then be the consultant. Or the reverse can occur, a patient may be admitted with pneumonia under an internist who would be the attending. Then if the patient develops cholecystitis the internist can consult a surgeon who would then be the consultant.
- The word Attending or Attending physician is probably equivalent to the UK term Consultant. The term Attending is used 2 ways. One is to distinguish between physicians who have completed their training and ones in residency (Attending vs. Resident). The other is as above, to denote the doctor of record who assumes primary responsibility for the patient during that particular admission (Attending vs. Consultant).
- Our generalists (Family Medicine/Practice) can practice in the hospital if they wish to. Although, this usually only occurs in smaller hospitals where there is less of a subspecialty presence.
- Limited scope primary care outpatient practices exist, i.e. pediatrics and internal medicine.
--DocJohnny 22:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for writing. I've only worked in acute care and unfortunately I'm not very well informed on nursing roles in the community setting, but the equivalent of a District Nurse in the U.S. would be simply a "visiting nurse" or "home nurse". As we don't have anything like the NHS system here, these nurses work for any of a million different private agencies or local health departments. There should probably be a more general article on visiting nurses, with a description of how their names and roles vary in different countries - or else Home care should be expanded. I'm less clear on the nature of Health Visitors; do they practice in a hospital setting or in homes? ←Hob 17:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
David thanks for the invitatio to have a look at these topics. My experience is A&E but I will have a look & contribute if I can. I'm also in contact, by a variety of means, with some DN's & HVs & Practice Nurss etc who may be willing/able to contribute & have some strong views about CPD & regulation changes for these professions. My real area of expertise is i health informatics & I notice this is not listed in the medical topics/specialisms lists - do you think it should be? Rod 09:01, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
asthma
your 2nd explntn for the dx of mild azma in athletes is what i had in mind. i'll check my wording, and maybe add something about the abuse of azma meds, which may be another cause of increased "incidence" in athletes.Sfahey 14:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I recently posted on the asthma page regarding OTC epinephrine inhaler use. You state that epinephrine when given via inhaler results in increased cardiac side effects, but this is not true if the medication is used in an appropriate manner. I refer to a study published last year: [[1]] Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 2005 Dec;95(6):530-4 Newer medications for relief are of course more selective, but to my knowledge, if used properly epinephrine via inhaler does not result in increased cardiac effects as a result of its selectivity. Please let me know your opinion on the matter. Thank you for your time. '--Iamahalfer 02:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)'
Ive copied above to Talk:asthma and placed my response there. User:Davidruben
Epilepsy and Driving
Thanks for adding the references on the UK legal issues wrt driving. I was composing my own references additions to the article, did a "show changes" which listed just mine and then a minute later went to save it -- bang! You'd beaten me to it. I think your reference is the best as it is the official site. However, I couldn't find anything about responsibility (doctor/patient) and it does say "These guidelines are intended for use by doctors". So I put in the Epilepsy Action reference that I had prepared and shifted your reference a little. I hope you are happy with the combination. --Colin Harkness 19:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
The extra DVLA information is good. Wrt the broken link – I'd lost the final "l" of "html" in the URL. I think the original page was more suited to the purpose than the one you substituted and had the title given in the reference link. So I've changed it back but with the fixed URL. I've also tidied then DVLA reference and used the full title as used in the PDF version of the web page. It is a shame the PDF has a date in it so it isn't really suitable for linking. If only they had called it "latest.pdf". --Colin Harkness 09:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Should you be awake
Doc, which timezone are you in? JFW | T@lk 01:41, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Gotcha. I had completed my on-call and was doing some watchlist work before dragging myself home. Nightowling all right :-). JFW | T@lk 14:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't disagree that I was being a tad overgenerous. I just did not want to get into a 1 man revert war with the anon. --JohnDO|Speak your mind I doubt it 00:32, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
References
Thanks for the kinds words. I am glad I had the time to look up those sources, and Uthbrian was a great help. And I agree, we will need to subject the rest of the article to the same vetting as the section by the anon. --JohnDO|Speak your mind I doubt it 06:19, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Re: Your message to Thor (Counter Vandalism Unit)
Thanks for your message David, I will set round getting an administrator to intervene and suspend this user from the Wikipedia if possible. The 3RR looks to have been breached. I will edit this message as soon as I have anything further for you, and I thank you warmly for alerting me to this situation. Regards, Thor Malmjursson 03:38, 21 January 2006 (UTC) Talk to me
Thanks for being patient with me David, and apologies for keeping you waiting. I am going to revert the article one more time, and I have left a warning on the anon user's talk page - see here - This is going to be passed to the AIV team (Administrator Intervention) and I will request that the user is blocked for a period to prevent further edits and hopefully discourage them from doing this again. Your assistance has been most welcome. Please do not hesitate to contact me again if this persists. Thor Malmjursson 03:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC) Talk to me
You misstated the position of the NIMH Consensus conference. they did not state that there is "no credible evidence of harm." They found at least eight months permanent memory loss.Also, just because an agency or institution issues a report does not mean it's NPOV. Bricks and mortar don't write reports---people do! And the NIMH was completely stacked with promoters of ECT, including those with financial ties to the shock machine companies (Sackeim, Weiner). Were you at the conference, and were you involved in the planning of it? I was. There were approximately twelve proponents on the planning committee and only one critic was included at the last minute due to criticism from former patients.
Same goes for the SG---the vast majority of references are to only a couple of, once again, financially conflicted authors. There was quite a bit of international media on the bias of the SG report---if I knew how to link such things, I would link them to here. Once again, I was involved in the SG report for years.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.122.225.69 (talk • contribs)
References for medical articles
Thanks for inserting the reference for Impossible syndrome. Is there information or a guidebook anywhere that would help me understand how to locate the article and insert a reference to it? I found Wikipedia:Citing sources quite confusing. Perhaps it would help us all to have something about how to cite sources (and how to use PMID) on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Clinical medicine page. Inability to create proper references seems to be a common problem, unfortunately leading to many articles with no sources cited.... Thanks again! --Rewster 18:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
PubMed citation
I was recently asked if there was information or a guidebook anywhere that would help a user understand how to locate a reference article and insert the reference to it. I was going to direct the user to the discussion on your bookmarklet for the PubMed tool but Clinical Medicine's talk page was recently archived. Given that this is an ongoing tool to help with medical articles, I have copied and reorganised the details into the Project's front page under the section about references, here. I think any improvements to the explanation or the javascript should be as edits, rather than as a sequential series of entries seen in a talk page's discussion. David Ruben Talk 14:03, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for moving the details to a more permanent spot. I think the existing docs are pretty decent (they're a heck of a lot more informative than Wikipedia:Tools/Browser integration, which is where most of the more popular bookmarklets are listed), but I'll add more if anything comes to mind. Cheers, David Iberri (talk) 20:27, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
This being America, there are actually three commonly used definitions for a tertiary referral hospital, which we tend to refer to as Tertiary Care Centers or some variation thereof. 1) A hospital with a (nearly) comprehensive services usually large and affiliated with a medical school. 2) A specialty hospital with tertiary consultants. For example: psychiatric hospitals, children's hospitals, cancer centers, transplant centers, etcetera. 3) A specific relationship with another hospital or region. A hospital regardless of size or services can be deemed a tertiary referral hospital if it serves as the recipient of transfers from another usually smaller hospital (the secondary) which serves as the transfer recipient of a third smallest hospital.
Usually the third definition coincides with one of the other two. --JohnDO|Speak your mind 14:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
For example a tertiary care center for a more rural area is [[2]] which is a 350 bed hospital. While it offers fairly detailed services, it is by no means comprehensive in tertiary specialists. By the standards of NYC or Boston, it is a secondary care facility. --JohnDO|Speak your mind 21:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks
For the nice meal. I see symptoms of Wikipedia insomnia. JFW | T@lk 08:59, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Epidemiologic vs epidemiological
Good question. However, things are a bit more complicated. I started out with a mixed version where both spellings occurred three times or so. Like you, I chose "epidemiological" as the better version. However, a quote and a Journal title both containing "epidemiologic" made me think again. So before saving it, I did some checks in PubMed and Google, also contrasting UK vs US English and came up with (1) both versions are ok as per spelling rules (2) "epidemiologic" is the preferred version. What convinced me was a search of the article titles in http://www.epidem.com (Joutnal listed in this article) that (similar to Google) showed a 2.5:1 ratio. Unlike Google, this reflects the preferred use among published scientists. Go figure... AvB ÷ talk 14:54, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Paracetamol
Very interesting points. I have wondered why there is no common slow-release form for so common a drug. The large size was just speculation from me, so no problem with removing it. The frequent dosage is disadvantage for an otherwise excellent drug, especially as paracetamol is often combined with other drugs using a different schedule. So I thought that it was worth mentioning, it has certainly sometimes affected me when deciding what drug to prescribe. Ultramarine 18:29, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thanks
...Thimerosal_controversyMidgley 03:41, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
the motivation?
The motivating factor in Midgley getting a star was perhaps related to a certain anon on the Epidemiology and Autistic enterocolitis pages? Kd4ttc 04:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Anti-vaccinationist pages
David,
Just to respond to some points you made and you are welcome to delete this after the communication has been effected, in case it is over long. The tone of dialogue immeasurably improves communication and you have made that effort, for which I am grateful, and to which I am responding. It was unfortunate and regrettable that the text was deleted, but I am not such an idiot to do such a thing intentionally and especially not in such highly charged circumstances.
There are misconceptions about 'anon' users. All users have user page/talk-pages. You will see I have both and WP is identical in all respects so far as I can know, save for the use of email and a couple of embellishments like creating pages.
As for WP posting edit warnings that has only happened to me about three time so far in all my editing and it only happened once on the anti-vax RfD page.
As for editing 4 times after CDN99 had pointed out the deletions, that is pretty easy to answer. You will notice that I even responded to that particular edit by CDN99. Had I realised what had happened and had it been intentional, anyone with half an ounce of sense would have quickly said "Hey guys, I made a mistake". As it was not intentional, I really did not take on board the significance and really only read the parts of the posting that I considered relevant to me after quickly scanning the text.
You will also note that five other editors after the deletion was pointed out made seven edits themselves.
As for never agreeing on vaccination, that is really not a problem. I have no issues with safe effective medical treatments and no issue in principle with vaccination. It is only what I have learnt about it since becoming aware there is a problem, that I know there is.
I am fully cognisant of risk/benefit equations and that is one of the aspects I have been careful to look into. I have looked into it in far greater detail than most and the research will be seeing the light of day in peer reviewed papers with respectable journals, having already trodden that ground.
I know people in your profession who are very uncomfortable with what is happening and the short and long term consequences. We are engaging in an experiment on our children and it started in the late 1960's and early 1970's with measles and rubella vaccines (ignoring the introduction of DPT many years earlier).
What is going on is a race. It is a race to eradicate diseases throughout the world with vaccines and take the collateral damage as a cost. Having looked at hard evidence of the kinds of collateral damage and seen how evidence is suppressed and that people cannot publish and folks in your profession do not report adverse events, I cannot reconcile the extent of the damage with the claimed benefits of the intervention. I have looked very closely at the disease stats and the benefits of the programmes and the risk benefit equation is really heavily going in the opposite direction to that people in your profession are told constantly. That is on top of exaggerated disease risk stats pumped out by officials responsible for promoting vaccination programmes - and I know the stats are, because I have the seen the data.
The foregoing paragraph is the kind view of what is going on and takes no account of the scale and extent of corruption in the pharmaceutical industry which has regrettably corrupted scientific research and the medical profession.
It is deeply troubling that we promote vaccination programmes in the third world, not counting the cost, and knowing the good nutrition and clean water will protect several orders of magnitude more effectively against disease and save vastly more lives than vaccines or any medications ever will. We know all of this because we have the stats showing how dramatically disease rates and mortality have fallen in the west over the past 200 years and especially over the last 100+ as living conditions improved generally.
So the answer to your question can our views ever be reconciled, the answer is yes, when the risk benefit equation is sensible and people stop suppression of the information showing the scale of the problems and the extent of iatrogenesis some of the current vaccines cause - and the heavy economic burdens of treatment for the chronic conditions that result. If all kinds are safe and effective with benefits that outweigh the risks, there may be some who might want to object, who are truly "anti-vaccinationist" but they would likely be few and far between. The odds ratio for multiple sclerosis is significant consequent on Hep B vaccination, so should we give it to all infants when the risk is tiny to non-existent for them but their risk of MS is significant? Doctors who believe no, are they anti-vaccinationists? How about doctors who suggest no 'flu vaccines for children because it is unethical to give them something that puts them at risk of an adverse event and when it only might benefit their grandparents? Are they anti-vaccinationists, as Dr Midgely's definition would have us believe? I really do not even want to consider the potential genetic effects or what might happen in the long term or the consequences of things like mothers losing their natural immunity and cannot pass that on to their offspring. We already have adults at risk of sterility as a result of mumps vaccination programmes as Dr Midgely knows all too well. The Invisible Anon 18:00, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- David, thank you for your thoughtful and careful comments on my talk page. All that separates us is access to reliable information to have informed debate. If the information was allowed to flow freely, the matter would be completely different, but it is not so it is not.
- If you look carefully you will find the cited mumps disease risk data is made up figures, cobbled together. There are no reliable sources. On rubella, here is a remarkable piece of detective work from the BMJ dishing the dirt [[3]]. As for measles deaths, in well nourished populations these fell to very low levels prior to vaccination and all in developed nations should be preventable now with treatment. There is also good research to show that just vit A halves measles mortality and reduces morbidity in clinical cases. WHO now push vit A hard in the third world.
- And then there is the problem of reliable figures on vaccine adverse events. Who knows when anyone will ever ensure events are reported and the data collated. Then there is the problem of getting anyone to take any notice of it.
- The abortion debate is difficult particularly because of the strong moral aspect. Vaccination does not have anything like the same conflict and the outcome is not fatal in all cases as with abortion. There are in my view huge numbers of "convenience" terminations. At the same time, it is preferable that those who would have had backstreet abortions have a legal alternative and then there are always the very difficult cases of threat to mother or the infant born severely handicapped or with some other chronic problems.
- We can pick this up another time after your break. The Invisible Anon 13:53, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Width of images
I've added a parameter to address your concern. Details at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anatomy. --Arcadian 15:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
IBS Article
Thank you David. Your input is very much appreciated. 70.95.199.228 05:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Nice comment in the IBS talk page
Very nicely put on the IBS talk page. It came across to me as very friendly and just nice. It was so well written you must have spent a fair amount of time on it. I appreciate the effort. Steve Kd4ttc 15:55, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Extra space in drugbox
Responded at Template_talk:Drugbox. --Arcadian 14:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Bifidobacteria strains
See the comment in the talk page IBS. Steve Kd4ttc 03:42, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Illegitimate mediaton on Talk:Irritable bowel syndrome
Looking at the Talk:Irritable bowel syndrome the mediation by Cameronian appears to have been invalid. Cameronian is not known to be a memeber of the mediation committee. Likely the issue will be brought up for some sanction against those involved. The discussion about the legitimacy of the mediator can be found at Talk:Irritable bowel syndrome#Mediator called in without protocol Kd4ttc 21:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Chemical structure diagrams
I saw one of your chemical structure diagrams for a medicine article, I was just wondering what program you're using to create them, and if it's free. Obli (Talk)? 00:16, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Re: Asthma
Hi David! It's been a while since we chatted. Hope things are well with health and family.:-D
About the external link (I think it was to a regular website by the way, although I may have missed a blog), it was no problem at all, don't mention it. I daresay a mention of the role of chlamydiae infection in asthma will improve the article; if that editor doesn't add referenced edits, I might add a small bit somewhere, later. As always, best wishes to you and yours ENCEPHALON 03:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Parental Notification
I was wondering if you'd give the edit history of Parental notification a once over, because while I know that you don't endorse my POV you don't seem to be one to ignore facts, and you might be able to mediate and make the article neutral for both sides. Chooserr 18:45, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
- Well I haven't known you very long, and know that you don't subscribe to my view point, but you seemed to try to keep emergency contraceptive neutral and attacking both me and my edits. As for the article being US centric I totally agree that it should be expanded to encompass the controversy (if any) in other countries. However I think it should for the most part remain focused on Abortion, Sex Education, and Contraceptives because that is the only thing that makes this really notible. The fact that a university would inform the parents when they find a student plastered doesn't generate to much controversy IMHO. I'll try to look over your message if I get time. Chooserr 05:49, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Quote
I'm currently checking (google) to make sure that is an exact quote from the Church, but in the mean time I've re-added it for even though it may be slightly repetitive I believe that an exact quote wouldn't hurt, and it would be more verifiable than Wikipedia just coming out and vaguely point in the pro-life direction saying, "this is what they believe". Chooserr 00:08, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Have you looked over the Over the Counter bit yet? Just by the link I provided you see that it is at least controversial.
Well I just stated it was controversial originally but it was continuously reverted by Hipocrite - you can see it is controversial here Chooserr 00:38, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
GMC
Yeah, the holiday (and my brother's wedding) was delightful. I'm slowly reintroducing Wikipedia, but hopefully my watchlist patrolling will be less compulsive :-)
There is no longterm solution for the GMC page. We can't leave it protected forever. I have indefinitely blocked the editor who posted the garbage about Sir Graeme. I have a low threshhold for wiping out the history if the items are clearly defamatory. Let me know if this happens again. Such idiocy should also be reported on WP:ANI for rapid wiping of the history. JFW | T@lk 18:41, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Kidney stones
No, I just rearranged the information on the page [4]. It had a section that was pointlessly titled "More information", so I moved the information to the proper sections, and renamed the section. — goethean ॐ 23:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
The image changes
Dave, what's up with all these changes?
I had them on 320px width so the infoboxes have the same width too and to give me some room for the bigger structures. Not only that - the bond length is the same and the font size is the same too, and if you look at structures that are related such as Albendazole.png and Mebendazole.png it can clearly be seen where they differ, just open them in two diferent windows and switch the windows back and forth (it doesn't work so weel on "Dumbxplorer" b/c when you do that the screen "blinks"). I don't think that the chem_infoboxes are completely "standart" as they all have different width on Firefox and Netscape. It seems that these two browsers don't force the image width (when its bigger than the table one) to shrink so it can fit in the table (the way "Dumbxplorer" does), instead they widen out the table to fit the image. Why is the drugbox width 198px only? It looks perfect on 320px. This way you don't have to shrink the images manually.
I ommit the "O" and "N" hydrogens on purpose - first "N" ones give me a major headacke b/c when i transfer the structures from ISIS to MS Paint they change position, font size etc. and i'm just tired of dealing with them; second if i want to color the hetero-atoms (which makes the image look better) i have to show the hetero-atom Hs as bonded otherwise they will have the same color as the heteroatom, and i don't want to do that b/c it looks ugly, but then when shown as bonded Hs overcrowd the image and it looks ugly too but in a different way. In both cases Hs don't provide any usefull information b/c we all know what the valences of O and N are and their relationship with H. The only time where it is worth showing the Hs is when they are part of multicyclic structures, such as steroids, terpenes, etc., and their position reflects the structure of the rings.
Yeah i know that the color of "F" (burgundy) is not much different that the color of "O", but at least is different and it's not the same as the color of "Cl", right? And i'm trying to match the color sheme used by PubChem.
Make sure you check your layout changes on the other browsers too, b/c right now Beclometasone dipropionate and Betamethasone look awefull on Firefox (and i guess on Netscape too). If the string length exceeds the width of the HTML element (the infobox table) these browsers don't "cut" the string and transfer the rest of it on a new line, they aren't that smart you know, you have to insert brakes such as "spaces" and "new lines" for them to be able to do that. -- Boris 06:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks so much for today's work on epilepsy. It's quite an improvement and it must have been a tidy bit of work. It's appreciated. -ikkyu2 (talk) 22:01, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Food
After my night shift (again!) we should plan another culinary expedition. JFW | T@lk 01:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- The Cite summary is quite comprehensive. I'd discuss it on the Wikipedia:Footnote talkpage and see if this can be made official. JFW | T@lk 13:37, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Welcome to VandalProof
Thanks for your interest in VandalProof! You've been added to the list of authorized users, and I will do my best to notify you once a download becomes available. AmiDaniel (Talk) 03:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Citations
I will help with the cleaning up of citations on the BI entry, as soon as I learn how to do so. I am very new to editing in Wikopedia. The burden should certainly not fall entirely on you to do so.Jgwlaw 05:11, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Ordering Question
in the BI article, you ordered the studies in ascending order, from oldest to newest. Don't you think the most latest research should be first, then with older articles?Jgwlaw 21:17, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- No, but with an important reservation that an outline to a complex topic should be given before delving into the finer details (hence the initial paragraph on Systemic effects from Vasey 2003 is useful before the 1999, 2001 etc points). But as the overall main section header is "Risks and controversy" this suggests a debate/arguement/evolution-in-understanding, i.e. there has been a historical process (which in itself should be less subject to POV/NPOV disagreements) as well as an epidemiological body of knowledge for wikipedia to help summarise (whose conclusions are more open to personal assessment/interpretation/debate). If FDA rejected a claimed risk, this logically must come after having sent out in the article what the claimed risk is. Likewise if there are then critisms of the FDA's methodology in coming to their opinion, then this needs to come after setting out what that opinion had been.
- I feel entries should have increasing depth of understanding as one progresses from a dictionary defifinition, a summary basic view, deeper understanding of issues with core research findings to finally appreciating the intricacies of disagreements & debates and continuing ongoing research. In this regards think of all the possible readers from young school chldren (who will only grasp the fefinition of what they are), older children who will be interested in their long use (from their perspective) and that a question of safety raised, to us adults (who will view their use as being "recent") and how complex the issues & arguments go. Of course the overal article must read well (so some flexibility) but there also needs to be some logic to issues advanced :-) David Ruben Talk 22:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Vandal Proof
Vandalproof is a windows application only? Boo Hiss. Sorry for so many questions. And thanks for the info on citations. I will digest it this evening and get back to you on it.Jgwlaw 21:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
BI article
You don't find it notable that platinum shows up in breast milk? I will re-edit that back, because I do think it noteworthy. If you really don't think so, we can discuss.
- above added by User:Jgwlaw 00:31, 8 April 2006
- It was listed along with hair & nails which I don't find nearly as important as long-term retention & accumulation in the body. Certainly if women are affected from long-term presence of implants and if platinum has anything to do with this, then my edit helps highlight this (vs presence in hair & nails, which in comparison are irrelevant).
- I was thinking about the prior discussion over systemic effects to the woman in this. But I get the point you highlight - namely that whilst presence in milk has no longterm direct consequences for the mother (like its presence in urine, hair or nails that are also "lost" from her), it might be an issue for a baby consuming this.
- Yes therefore I agree, seems reasonable to reinsert its presence in milk, but might be clearer as a separate point after discussing its presence in the woman. Given I have only read the newspaper report you kindly provided and the abstract of the original paper (rest is on subscription), one may need to be take with wording:
- "presence in milk" might not imply a significant quantity (there again the full article might clearly state so)
- Mean platinum concentration in breast milk samples from women exposed to silicone breast implants was ~ 100x higher than for individuals with no known Pt exposure. That is most significant.
- Possibly, but 100 x a "totally insignificant" amount, might still only result in the less minute "insignificant" amount. Relative levels are interesting, but absolute levels (with respect to international safety levels - of which I have no idea) even more noteworthy. Again, the full article might already be elaborating on this point ... David Ruben Talk 03:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- totally 'insignificant' amount? I don't know that there are safety standards. The argument had been that platinum was not unsafe in the body and this article challenges that..67.35.126.14 03:59, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Possibly, but 100 x a "totally insignificant" amount, might still only result in the less minute "insignificant" amount. Relative levels are interesting, but absolute levels (with respect to international safety levels - of which I have no idea) even more noteworthy. Again, the full article might already be elaborating on this point ... David Ruben Talk 03:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- I am unaware of how well platinum is absorbed by a babies gut (if poorly absorbed through digestion, but readily accumulated if its source bypasses the gut - i.e. from an implant), then this might not be quite as significant. Platinum#Precautions doesn't seem to help with this. David Ruben Talk 00:01, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know either. It is a very good question.
- Initial quick attempts to search into this yeilded almost incomrehensible studies on chemotherapy cis-platinum given intravenously in chemotherapy. However one report just about understood in mice which seems suggest platinum absorption not problem cis-Amminedichloro(2-methylpyridine) platinum(II) (AMD473), a novel sterically hindered platinum complex: in vivo activity, toxicology, and pharmacokinetics in mice. Hmmm - almost sorry I asked :-) David Ruben Talk 00:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- ROFL There is some debate on this, I know. Cis-platinum makes me shudder. My father had been given that before he died of mesothelioma.
BI Platinum study
Platinum study Actually it was not from the abstract, but from the actual article. However, I do not have a link for it.Jgwlaw 02:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe, but the abstract is all that I have access to for free... and the abstract is "official" as it is also from the primary source journal. When full article eventually published in hardcopy, then we can update the citation reference; i.e. volume, issue, page numbers & the "offical" publication date - but I think I may be missing your point here ? :-) David Ruben Talk 02:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- No, I know the abstract is 'official'. My only point is that I have read the article itself. But I do not have access to the website from whence it came, as I do not have a subscription. I have a hardcopy of the article from the website. I can give an internet citation, however, but it won't be of much use.
- I mentioned earlier in the discussion that the article says the level of Pt in breast milk is 100 x greater than that in non-exposed individuals.
==Staphylococcus aureus== Sorry. Read through the changes and it looked mainly like formatting, so couldn't see what was different. Please re-insert your changes. Again, I apologise, just sheer unadulterated incompetence on my part. Read the style recommendations and removed the hard italic tags. Thanks for your patience. --Gak 07:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Many of your recent changes on Staphylococcus aureus are excellent, but I'm concerned about your conversion of the S. aureus references to Staph. aureus. I realize that many folk refer to Staphylococcus aureus this way colloquially, but the Wiki convention has generally been to observe the italicized <Genus> <species> → <G.> <species> format. In summary, then, I agree with your citation of the "no excess italics" rule, but not your application of it in this case. As such, I've changed that portion (and only that portion as I think the majority of your edits were spot on) back to the original. MarcoTolo 00:18, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
BI article
I am not going to allow one editor to vandalize, and pick & choose what he wants to cite out of a study, especially when he directly benefits financially by the approval of silicone implants. Wikopedia is not an advertisement where he can sell his wares. He added studies but only partially described them. He also deleted the statement about critic of the platinum study being an Inamed consultant - instead Oliver elaborated about his qualifications, while saying nothing about the scientists doing the study. This is patently POV. Furthermore, you criticized my citing an FDA report of a 1995 study (that is still cited in a 2004 FDA handbook). Yet you said nothing about the study at the beginning of the entire section -- an IOM review that was done in 1996. (I corrected it, since the study was NOT done in 1999 as previously stated).Jgwlaw 06:12, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Voting on BI Split
I have changed my mind, after seeing what the plastic surgeon is doing, and thinking about Ombudsman's concerns. After considering this, I agree that the article should NOT be split. I can see where it would be headed - the 'risk and controversy' would be soon marked for deletion. I see now what Ombudsman meant. And, plastic surgeons have already tried to make the BI entry an advertisement for their wares. The BI entry should be kept as one article.Jgwlaw 07:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Campaigners
You wrote, "As a typical UK GP I suppose I might be viewed by the campaigners as belonging to the medical orthodoxy." Speaking as one whom you evidently consider a 'campaigner', I now do question your objectivity. After seeing this debacle with implants, I can say that my respect for "medical orthodoxy" has plummeted. But then, I wonder if "medical orthodoxy" has changed. It does appear that a certain 'brand' of medical orthodoxy is more concerned with bashing lawyers, avoiding accountability, and reaping profit than it is concern for patient well-being. Jgwlaw 08:54, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
- Thats not quite the meaning I intended. The other user obviously had been heavily editing and with little regard for encyclopedic style (just awful English, abstract copying and swamping with statistics) or provision of references with full citation details. My discussion on their talk page (as opposed to an article's talk page) was therefore meant to be purely about their editing style (rather than discussion over content which I would reserve for an article's talk page) - I was pretty unhappy at all the work required to resort out the references (I would rather be contributing to an article's content/description rather than copyediting citation styles and phrasing of their inclusion). I was therefore trying to indicate that I have no particular formed view (although "might" be more inclined to support rather than reject their POV) and was only trying to address (at that time) issues of wikistyle/formating. I think (hope) I'm still (I hope) open minded, although I recognise that I "might" be seen as part of the establishment (I am a doctor after all which would tend to make me part of the "medical community" whether or not I agree with all generally held medical-consensus views or not). I was therefore trying to reach out to that edtor by "being nice" in the hope of engaging in discussion on wikiformating, which might then lead to some talk-page discussion on how to best work on the article (rather than the constant editing sequence that seems to be occurring).
- As for my "objectivity" - whilst remaining doubtful on the topic, you'll notice that my recent edits were mostly reductionary in the swamp of "pro" methodology & statistics, and I was quite scathing of how it had been dumped into the article. Whilst that does not prove I am objective, nor does it disprove.
- For what it is (not) worth in wikipedia (all editors should be able to reach agreement on consensus NPOV editing), I am personally split in my opinion - one the hand I am not yet convinced that the evidence confirms CTD caused by BI, against this rates of rupture seem alarmingly high (even if silicone were safe, the implant walls really should not rupture at all) and the suggestion of a previously unrecognised/non-accepted reaction to this seems to have some supporting evidence. Whilst accepting that I have to trust specialists much of the time in order to function (I trust the pharmacist to dispense the right drug, patients not to over or under dose, manufacturers to place right ingredients into the tablets, regulatory body to have verified safety, government to have selected appropriate people for the regulator body, fellow citizens to appoint a responsible government) that still leaves me ambivalent about the regulatry bodies. One the one hand I tend to trust them to have withdrawn BIs from market for valid reasons, on the other I fail to see problem with emergencey contraception & the FDA refusing to license on seemingly political growns. I obviously can't have it both ways and remain unobjectively 'black & white' in my viewpoints - which suggests that I need remain open-minded to the evidence as well as how medical-politics really works (both positively & negatively). All this, I guess, is to state that I remain doubtful (which is not the same as denying that there might not be risks). WP is of course not meant to be Personal Original Research but on this article, at least, it has contributed to my Personal Awareness of some of the Research - and learning is what an encyclopedia is meant to be about. So I look forward to continuing to jointly contributing & learning on this and other articles :-) David Ruben Talk 13:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
- I must say that I am far less trusting of (medical) doctors than I once was. This is probably a good thing. I was raised like many to believe that (medical) doctors were somehow immune to the vagaries of human bias. However, I still am astonished at the attempt to turn this article into an advertisement for BI. I even wondered last night if maybe there really is no possible connection, after all. But then, as you point out, silicone implants were taken off the market in the US. And, there are studies that are not funded by manufacturers that do suggest systemic problems. I also look at my own experience and it is crystal clear not just from subjective, but from objective, information. I am well aware that an individual experience is merely an 'anecdote' statistically. In legal terms, it might be the equivalent of strong 'circumstantial' evidence. And as an engineer, if I saw such behavior in a design, I would want to find out why -- certainly not dismiss it as meaningless. I am grateful that I had a GP that maintained similar 'curiosity'. What would you think if you knew that doctors have told women that silicone in their lymphatic system is 'normal' with breast implants and nothing to worry about? What about if some doctors advise women not to remove ruptured implants, because doing so would not affect their health? Would that strike you as strange? I often wonder if the fact a possible correlation was first raised in court is the reason for such hostility. I don't know.
- Oh - even if the sole physical response from silicone rupture is local chronic inflammation and giant cell reaction, would you consider this 'normal'? Would you want this in your body?
- The 'dumping' of that plastic surgeon editor still astonishes me. After all my experience, it is very hard for me to comprehend that a ""medical"" doctor would be so closed minded and biased. It goes against the grain of what ""medical"" doctors are ""supposed"" to be in relation to their patients and the public at large. Contrary to what some medical doctors complain, lawyers are subject to an ethical code, the violation of which results in censure or disbarment.
- I also agree with you that the FDA is a political body and has become increasingly more so in recent years. The refusal to approve emergency contraception is an American pandering to the religious right. Also political was "President" Bush's insistence that FDA approval should bar citizens from access to the courts -- the FDA never makes a mistake? Oy vey. That lobbying, however, came to an abrupt halt when it became known that Merck had deliberately concealed its own research from the public.
- I also do not subscribe to the belief that all pharmaceuticals, medical devices, or the medical profession are somehow suspect. While I have not investigated the 'autism epidemic' controversy, for example, I am grateful that polio vaccine, to name one, was available so that we are not subject to the same risk that our parents once were. I was raised in a family of scientists. My own educational background is math and science, long before law. I have no interest in abandoning medical or scientific advances. However, I am also aware of the (increasing) financial influence and conflicts of interest. The incidence of financial conflict among medical doctors is a growing concern. An example of this is the scandal of doctors only sending patients to labs or clinics in which they are heavily invested. Yet I would never dream of making such bald statements in a Wiki article, in contrast to some comments I have seen about lawyers.Jgwlaw 18:26, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
- I must say that I am far less trusting of (medical) doctors than I once was. This is probably a good thing. I was raised like many to believe that (medical) doctors were somehow immune to the vagaries of human bias. However, I still am astonished at the attempt to turn this article into an advertisement for BI. I even wondered last night if maybe there really is no possible connection, after all. But then, as you point out, silicone implants were taken off the market in the US. And, there are studies that are not funded by manufacturers that do suggest systemic problems. I also look at my own experience and it is crystal clear not just from subjective, but from objective, information. I am well aware that an individual experience is merely an 'anecdote' statistically. In legal terms, it might be the equivalent of strong 'circumstantial' evidence. And as an engineer, if I saw such behavior in a design, I would want to find out why -- certainly not dismiss it as meaningless. I am grateful that I had a GP that maintained similar 'curiosity'. What would you think if you knew that doctors have told women that silicone in their lymphatic system is 'normal' with breast implants and nothing to worry about? What about if some doctors advise women not to remove ruptured implants, because doing so would not affect their health? Would that strike you as strange? I often wonder if the fact a possible correlation was first raised in court is the reason for such hostility. I don't know.
- As to the poor grammar and spelling and dumping, that doesn't say much for the editor who so disregarded good form.Jgwlaw 19:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
A Download Is Now Available
I just wanted to let you know that a download of VandalProof has recently been made available. AmiDaniel (Talk) 09:48, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
BI article - vandalized again
I need your help. Oliver vandalized the article again. He deleted the entire meat of the platinum study findings -- even the sentence you wrote that you found important. Please go look at the history there. Also, I agree that other studies should be included, those that don't agree with some of the FDA findings. I would like your help in finding a balanced way to do this. The chart I think you added is not a bad idea, but it only includes those studies selected by Oliver. Highlighting that suggests the other information is somehow diminished. I still think the better way to handle this is in a narrative form, summarizing some of those studies, without dumping every single one - he included case studies, also, and reviews of studies that were very small or by the same researchers. Many of those are funded by Dow Corning, as well. I would like to go through that with some care, to see what is valid to mention and what is not.Jgwlaw 07:53, 10 April 2006 (UTC) One older study, for example, that he had added earlier at some point, was the Mayo Clinic study. It was my neurologist, who did his residency at Mayo, who first told me that the study was funded by Dow Corning, and that Mayo was a defendant in a lawsuit at the time of the study. In fact, Mayo later sued its insurance company claiming that the study was done for its defense. That took moxy.Jgwlaw 07:53, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
- Ok - see the article's talk page (please don't take anything personally too positively or negatively) - there are issues of both content & styling that apply to either Oliver or yourself. I think you have made some good points, but have been a little drastic in some of the changes; hey - this is wikipedia and its main advantage is that the best of many author's contributions can be merged :-). The article is being edited heavily and swinging back and forth - that is an edit war (or content/POV dispute) not vandalism (as I understand its usage in wikipedia). There is clearly a failure to reach a consensus on the article (for want of not "flaming the flames", I'll ascribe no specific blame) which certainly fails to meet the spirit of wikipedia. I think this is heading for a WP:RfC, but have had a go at setting-out a framework on the talk-page for editing to cease for a bit (whatever the article's current state) and trying to reach some consensus.
- I don't think each and every part of an article's sub-sections has to be NPOV - Of course there can be a pro & con for each point in turn, OR a single POV's list/table/bullet-points provided that it is immediately followed by a counter-balance. I think its a matter of what suits the article or the particular section best. I think the comment after the table, about the FDA's view on the statistical quality of all previous studies, was quite damming enough - and therefore there is/was no need to over expand on each study with a specific individual praise/critism (but that's just how I interpreted the article on reading it).
- Having seen a few content disputes on other articles, don't let this cause too much wikistress, take a deep breath, take a break (if required), seek support/mediation (if required) and/or ask for others to contribute/comment (RfC).... I hope we can sort out this interesting article about an important topic soon ... :-) David Ruben Talk 18:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
- I consider OLIVER'S editing drastic. I do see that you are somewhat biased here, but maybe we can still work it out. Plastic surgeons DO benefit from silicone implant approval and to suggest otherwise as he has done is simply dishonest. By the way, there have also been problems with saline implants, although that seems not to be the focus here.
A whole batch of saline implants had defective valves, and bacteria and mold grew in the implants. They also were black when removed. Women who had these had systemic fungus problems,. among other things. That attitude of plastic surgeons that close their eyes to any research that is not favorable to implants is frightening, to say the least. If there were no conflict, don't you imagine they would wonder about the studies funded by manufacturers? The plastic surgeons that I know and trust DO think that is a problem. (and yes there are a few).Jgwlaw 03:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Drug bias....Interesting article
Hi David, This is exactly why I (and many many others) do not believe Dow funded results. Especially when the sponsor of the study is a defendant in a related lawsuit!! Obviously, this is no big surprise, but still I found this article in WAPO today interesting - it is about the conflict wrt drug manufacturers, but the same principle applies. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/11/AR2006041101478_pf.html Jgwlaw 02:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
BI article
It is clear to me that Oliver won't even discuss changes on the discussion board, however. In many instances, I left what he had but added additional findings - which he did not want to include.
I also asked him for a citation and summary for the France article which he refused to provide. For the IAEG, I omitted it because it even stated in the report that it was limited case reports! He deleted comments of mine arguing that case reports should not be included!
I do find him arrogant, offensive, excessively rude and I haven't even started about what I think of his bias. It's scary. Enough I never want to see another plastic surgeon again in my life, for any reason. Well, with the exception of a good friend who is, but certainly not like this idiot. That user is Oliver - it's obvious. His sarcasm is identical to his 'user name' sarcasm. What astounds me most is that one would think (or hope) that a medical doctor (even a plastic surgeon) would be open to the pros and cons of a medical issue. Forget about me for a minute, as I am not a medical doctor (I have a 'doctorate' but but not in medicine). A medical doctor would ostensibly be interested enough in potential problems for his/her patients that he/she would look at all the information. Oliver deleted entire findings, selectively lifted what was convenient... It makes me shudder. Does he do that in his practice? I bet he tells women that breast implants are 100% safe, and the information packet he is required to give them (the FDA packet is now a requirement) is just legal nonsense required to prevent frivolous lawsuits. That is his attitude. Scary. No wonder he hates lawyers. And it is precisely these kind of doctors that make med mal and product liability lawyers necessary.
As to the other - you make an interesting point. Your gov't flyer/newsletter is the equivalent of insurance companies here only paying for generic drugs or older drugs, regardless of the merits. It's a problem both ways. On the one hand, 'new' drugs are often very little different from old drugs - change something minor to license a new patent, when the 'old' patent runs out. On the other hand, sometimes newer drugs really are better, or significantly different. How in the heck are we to know? Then in the US there are the 'off label' uses which the FDA does not prohibit. Pharmas suddently find a million and one reasons for the drug OTHER than what it is FDA approved for, and market this to physicians. Neurontin was one such drug. It is approved for epilepsy (I think) but was notriously used for everything under the sun. I used it for neuropathic pain, but finally quit taking it. Since my explant, that pain that I had had for 5 years has simply gone away. (Did you not the finding about ANA levels, by the way? I told you my ANA is now negative after being 1:640 for 5 years. Presumably 1:640 is still a relatively low titer, but still it is positive).
Finally, there is a serious problem wtih conflict of interest in research. The New York Times had a huge article about this also some time ago, but I do not recall which issue. Dow Corning was (and is) notorious about that. Court documents are rife with evidence that Dow manipulated research.Jgwlaw 04:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Barnstar
The Original Barnstar | ||
Davidruben is hereby awarded this barnstar for both his fine efforts at mediation at Talk:Breast implant, and for his numerous other fine contributions! Thank you for your hard work! |
Mike1024 (t/c) 00:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
“Medicine” on MCOTW
After a bit of inactivity, Medicine has been selected as the new medicine collaboration of the week. I am taking the unusual step of informing all participants, not just those who voted for it, since I feel that it is important that this highest-level topic for our collaboration be extremely well-written. In addition, it is a core topic for Wikipedia 1.0 and serves as the introduction to our other articles. Yet general articles are the ones that are most difficult for individuals to write, which is why I have invited all participants. I hope it isn't an intrusion; I don't make plan to make a habit of sending out these messages. — Knowledge Seeker দ 02:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
VandalProof 1.1 is Now Available For Download
Happy Easter to all of you, and I hope that this version may fix your current problems and perhaps provide you with a few useful new tools. You can download version 1.1 at User:AmiDaniel/VandalProof. Let me warn you, however, to please be extremely careful when using the new Rollback All Contributions feature, as, aside from the excessive server lag it would cause if everyone began using it at once, it could seriously aggitate several editors to have their contributions reverted. If you would like to experiment with it, though, I'd be more than happy to use my many sockpuppets to create some "vandalism" for you to revert. If you have any problems downloading, installing, or otherwise, please tell me about them at User:AmiDaniel/VP/Bugs and I will do my best to help you. Thanks. AmiDaniel (Talk) 06:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Hello David,
I just wanted to ask you if you continue to take an interest in the above article. It's in a very poor state at the moment, and will require sustained attention from a dispassionate and experienced editor (or editors). I am pressed for time, and will not be able to take that role, although I will certainly try to help. Would you be so kind as to drop me a note? Best wishes —Encephalon 02:26, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Breast Implants, again....
Hi David. I thought you would like to know that we are still working and editing....It seems that Oliver was correct in part, about the original saline implants. And I was correct in part. In fact, the more I read about the history, the more contradictory statements I find - in academic journals. I have asked a board certified plastic surgeon (who is quoted in some of these journals) to help with input. He has a hell of a lot more experience in plastic surgery that Oliver, I suspect, and is a renowned expert in the field. He said he would help us with this. He also corrected me on the Baker contracture levels, which neither Oliver nor I caught. molly bloom 03:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I found this was you after I read the history
Please identify yourself on my user page. As to your comments...I would also like to suggest that sometimes the editorial changes are new WIki editors trying to get formatting or other such things in order. At least, that was well over half of mine. In fact, I have not had a chance yet to get in order the references, because when I tried it did not work. Then an editor (the one you referenced) deleted an entire section I had written for lack of reference. And the content of that section is not debatable - Oliver simply collapsed it to a single sentence because he did not want to highlight the local complications. In turn, that rendered a photograph I uploaded meaningless. I later added 3 references to this section, in the format you detest, until I have time and a chance to practice the 'proper' formatting - lest some other eager editor eviscerate what I have written. I have shortened the section considerably, pursuant to your criticisms. Further, if you read the comments fully, you would see that that editor accused me of 'blanking' - which I most certainly did not do. That is very annoying. I would also hope that you refrain from running to an administrator any time someone has multiple edits. I am sure one day I will become proficient at Wiki, but I have been on here less than a month.molly bloom 05:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
BI
Thank you for your comments. I was rather taken aback by the accusation of blanking by the other editor... I then realized that he had not read what had been done, or the references. I know if I edit other articles, what not to do -- go in and slash, without reading or comprehending what was written. I don't believe I would ever do that, however. As to references, I must admit I haven't yet figured it all out - I finally got to your notes this morning over coffee. I think I need to 'play in the sandbox' to see better how to do this. Programming or coding was not my forte in engineering. I was an "EMF" engineer (electromagnetism) & telecom. I went to law school as a second career, after many years in engineering. Now I am so glad I did. I now work the hours I choose. I never expected to become so ill, with autoimmune illnesses. My energy level is still not what it should be, although my health has much improved since ruptured silicone implants were removed. I wish I had not been 'graced' with the diagnoses of lupus and MS. It seems the only thing that did for me is to render me uninsurable. (I was not hospitalized with either lupus or MS, however, and would have therefore been excluded from the studies Oliver cited - regardless of definitive diagnoses). I only wish doctors like Oliver could actually see the differences in women like me.. but alas, I fear his mind is closed to these issues. Ironically, it was a medical doctor who first insisted my implants were causing me so many problems, when I initiallly could not believe it. I say ironically, because to hear Oliver one would think all doctors believe silicone implants are 100% safe. I also fear for women who have older implants (over 10 years old) whose doctors insist they should not be removed. Given the fact that now the literature 'admits' that 10 years is the approximate 'life span', it is inconceivable that some doctors still tell women not to remove old implants. I just thank God that I had an internist who knew better, and a friend who was an MD to encourage me otherwise. The difference in my health was dramatic. There is no other possilbe conclusion one could make, but that the ruptured implants were making me very very ill. Had I not had the surgery, I would not be here editing Wikopedia. I would not be working. I may not even be alive. And this is the danger of those like Oliver adamantly closing his mind to the possibility that individuals may have different susceptibility to autoimmune disorders. As a scientist myself, I cannot conceive of such an attitude. It is frightening.molly bloom 14:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
other editors for BI
I may have to twist his arm ... I know he is busy. He said he would, though. We'll see.molly bloom 00:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
ChildLess Mother - reply
Thank you for your introduction. There is no book called Childless Mother that I know of. My website has several missions: to raise awareness about pregnancy loss and pregnancy after loss, to provide resources and support to individuals in need, and to sell the book Journeys: Stories of Pregnancy After Loss. The last one being ranked last because there are other venues doing that (Amazon, etc). My focus is providing information. I hold a Masters in Public Health and CHES certification from NCHEC and have spent my career working with the underserved. Women experiencing stillbirth and miscarriage definitely are underserved and need support, information and direction. I've given a myriad of talks to support groups, at colleges, at conferences, fundraisers and staff from my state Senator's office. I've been written up in my town newspaper, have written for my town newspaper, and will soon be profiled for my contribution in this field in a more regional paper.
Perhaps I jumped into Wikipedia too soon, given all the comments. I especially wonder the appropriateness of a 20-year old male college student being able to state Childless Mother should be deleted. I'll just figure he has nothing better to do.
I'm not angry or bitter or seeking pity. This topic is due for a major awakening in the world's psyche. I have endorsements for the book from leaders in this field.
I'll accept whatever the outcome of the decision is and perhaps when I'm not helping others will try to draft a more wiki-compatible piece on Childless Mothers.
Elovesme99 13:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Regarding your writeup explaining Cite.php
David, thank you for the note you left on my Talk page, wherein you asked me to read your re-write explaining the Cite.php method for footnoting. Yes, it is certainly an improvement.
I,too, have worked up a re-write. Take a look at my storage sandbox at User:mbeychok/MRB's storage sandbox and go to section 3 in the Table of Contents. Let me know what you think of it.
Perhaps, we might collaborate on a merger of our two write-ups?? By the way, I am a retired chemical engineer and I live in Newport Beach, California, USA.- mbeychok 22:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
BI
I re-removed a political link. This is a rant against lawyers and very biased - more a poliitical link, under the guise of a legitimate report.
I left the UK report, but why do we need to have it listed twice? It already is in the source citations. Do we want to link to every single report? If you don't, it appears selective.molly bloom 14:50, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
In the US, FDA says emergency contraceptive leads to "sex cults"
Regarding making emergency contraceptives available over the counter...
From "Newsday.com" --In the memo released by the FDA during the discovery process, Dr. Curtis Rosebraugh, an agency medical officer, wrote: "As an example, she [Dr. Janet Woodcock, deputy operations commissioner] stated that we could not anticipate, or prevent extreme promiscuous behaviors such as the medication taking on an 'urban legend' status that would lead adolescents to form sex-based cults centered around the use of Plan B."
Sex Cults! This is the 'science' on which the FDA is basing its decisions? But the FDA wants to approve silicone breast implants. Only in (Bush's) America. molly bloom 05:04, 26 April 2006 (UTC) Given that OTC ECP is not cheep here in UK (I think its around £12, ie approx £17 a single tablet) - partly I believe because the drug companies are required to invest some money in routine contraception educational measures and also (again I gather) they were not allowed to market the drug too cheeply for fear people might see this as a cheep alternative and so resort to using ECP as required rather than bother with routine contraception - then these would not be cheap "sex cults". Having never partaked in the "club scene", is ECP going tro have any impact on the already existing promiscus sexually-liberated society ? Just look at STD rates to see that people are not using condoms despite the risks of HIV. Here in UK it is not "freely" available off the shelf - it is a P medicine meaning pharmacist supply - the pharmacist needs check whether it is needed (i.e. not needed if period started that day !), and can advise the woman that it is not a routine contraceptive but rather for special circumstances. A similar approach in US would I hope ensure people (i.e. FDA) are reassured that there wont be people filling up the supermarket trolley with ECPs "just in case" or to stock up for the next "Sex cult" Tuesday-night meeting :-) David Ruben Talk 16:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
- Interesting note. I think ECP should be available and affordable. The purpose of our government is not to dictate our private life. The factors behind this are purely political, and not scientific. In the US, they are the same people who want small government, except when it comes to our civil rights, privacy and private sexual decisions. But then, that is my personal opinion. Policy should not be based on whether some groups think a product will encourage extramarital sex or 'sex cults'. These are the same people who would ban the distribution of condoms, and sex education. I don't doubt that too many people do not use condoms, but prohibiting them in favor of 'teaching abstinence' is absurd...not to mention impractical and dangerous. In the US, there is huge controversy about pharmacists and even pharmacies refusing to dispense prescription birth control pills, because of their own religious beliefs.MollyBloom 04:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Acne
I did consider the points you raised before making my addition to this article. The Benzoyl peroxide article has a larger section that goes into more depth on this and other possible risks. I put a condensed version into the main acne article because I think it's possible that someone would only check the main article on acne before going out and buying over-the-counter products without checking the articles on those particular products. I don't think there's as much purpose in including side-effects of prescription drugs like antibiotics in articles other than their own, because the prescribing doctor would presumably want to discuss the side effects.
If you feel that even a condensed version of the appropriate precautions is too much for the main acne article and decide to remove it, then I won't really care too much seeing as it is already covered in the main Benzoyl peroxide article. I just figured that it might be a good idea to reinforce the importance of being careful, seeing how incredibly efficient this stuff is at bleaching things. I have the sexy bleached hair and ugly bleached bedsheets to prove it! (If only I had a digital camera to upload some pictures as examples for the Benzoyl peroxide article, lol!) --Icarus 03:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Everything you've said is true, and my case for including that bit as a courtesy to the reader is admittedly weak, which is why I wouldn't mind all that much if you or someone else did ultimately decide to remove it. I think it's short enough and likely enough to not be thought of as a side effect (as it's not actual physical harm) to be worth keeping, but time will tell if other editors think the mention in the main Benzoyl peroxide article is all that's called for. The box and/or an insert does have directions, warnings, etc. here in the US, to answer your question.
- If only my formerly-blue sheets were pure white now! That would certainly be preferable to the tie-dye-gone-wrong look they're currently sporting!
- Finally, and on a only somewhat related note, I noticed that your user page says that you're a doctor. So in case no one's told you this recently, on behalf of humanity, thank you. I, and many other people (as you undoubtedly know), owe a lot to the devotion and expertise of those in your profession. You doctors really are heroes. --Icarus 07:27, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
BI article
In response to your comments ---
And yes, I can carry over some of those edits to the other page. I appreciate your reverting back, since it seems appropriate to make any further changes on the off-line page, for now.molly bloom 03:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- I would appreciate it if you would help mediate on this issue. Please come look at the discussion. The article should be split....I agree with that. But "Kasyrn" thinks there is no controversy and I fear he is going to try to allow Oliver to whitewash it. Dr. Zuckerman posted her comments. Oliver claims I don't have the 'expertise' to edit an article like this....although in fact, I do have a science and a law background, and had silicone implants myself. That led me to do a great deal of research in this area. I also quoted an article that was reviewed and edited by doctors at the Cleveland Clinic, which stated uncategorically that there are conflicting studies, and which quoted some of the same studies Oliver wants to delete as irrelevant.
Oliver tries to paint me as anti-science, and anti-doctors, in the same light as the 'anti-vaccinationists'. This is equally absurd. Had I been anti-science, I would not have spent the majority of my adult life in science. My legal education has been much later, as a second career. (Getting old is when you stop learning, I feel, so I just several times in my life for more education, and I read in depth on issues of interest.)
Oliver also has dismissed what Dr. Zuckerman says, and fought against keeping a link to her research project. He claims she is incompetent and a political hack. This is a portion of what Dr. Z had to say about it.
Last week, I testified on breast implants for the Health Committee of the Canadian Parliament. I was invited because I am an epidemiologist (post doctoral training at Yale Medical School) and internationally recognized expert on this topic. There are still many unanswered questions about the risks and benefits of breast implants, and much controversy. That's why the FDA and Health Canada are both unsure whether to approve silicone gel breast implants. Last week I also spoke at a Women's Health conference in Virginia, on a panel with a plastic surgeon. We talked about the risks and benefits and agreed on almost everything regarding breast implants. I have repeatedly added research data to this article, and Dr Oliver keeps removing it. I want this article to be accurate, but I have a fulltime job as the director of a research center and I don't think it is fair for me to have to keep putting back information that he removes for no scientific reason. He is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. I have taught at Yale and Vassar, and was the director of a major research project at Harvard. What research credentials does Dr Oliver have that entitles him to keep deleting my scientific additions to this article? (Dr. Zuckerman wrote this as can be seen from the history.)
- Dr. Oliver, on the other hand, went to medical school at the University of South Alabama, which ranks about 100 in state medical schools. He is not an epidemiologist. He is not a researcher. I am not saying he is unqualified, but he has little room to suggest Zuckerman is not.
Oliver (and Kas, evidently believes him) insist there is NO controversy about implants. He insists it is all settled. Rob continually brings up the 1999 IOM review...Yet the Cleveland Clinic Dept of Plastic Surgery had this to say:
Since the 1999 IOM report, there have been other studies published with conflicting results...[In 2004] FDA scientists published a study with findings of more autoimmune disease among women with leaking breast implants compared to women with intact breast implants...More recently reported, in 2004, scientists at the National Cancer Institute (NCI) found an increase in reported connective-tissue diseases among those with breast implants, but also found that many of the women made errors in their self-reported diagnoses. They concluded that this area needed further study."
(You can read the article on the discussion page.) Oliver's attitude reminds me of the real partisan hacks in "Quackwatch" who claim asbestos is safe. The guru there said that had the World Trade Center had more asbestos more people would have lived. The claim is utter nonsense, and architects and engineers have abundantly pointed that out. And unlike with silicone implants, there is NO medical controversy about the effects of inhaling asbestos fibers. In the US alone, 10,000 people die a year from asbestos related diseases,. My father was one of those - he died from mesothelioma. I will never forget talking to the surgeon as he came out of surgery - before he even had a chance to speak with my mother. He choked up, and could not initially get the words out. I can't imagine how a surgeon feels when seeing how helpless they are- no matter how much experience they have. My dad lived 5 months from the time of diagnosis. Yet there are still idiots claiming asbestos is safe. Of course, my dad is an 'anecdote' and for 50 years the asbestos manufacturers lied about the dangers.
Like Dr. Laub (the plastic surgeoin in Vermont), I believe that someday implants will be proven to be unsafe, unless there are significant improvements more than there are now. We need longer term studies of implants before they go on the market. That was one of the problems the FDA had - the lack of data about rupture and the effects of rupture. I spoke with an epidemiologist (not Zuckerman) who was involved in the FDA hearings. He said that there was not enough data presented to even develop a pattern of rupture.
Kasyrn (who is not a doctor, scientist or knowledgeable in the area) assumes there is no controversy, apparently listening to Rob, and wants to act as 'mediator'. It is clear to me where he is going with this. THat is not mediation. He also wants before and after pictures of breasts to show what implants 'look like' in the body. That seems ridiculous to me, as it has to others, so I am not sure what his interest is in all this.
I would appreciate it if you would help mediate in this. Dr. Zuckerman will be editing also, she told me. She is pretty angry about the whole thing, and I don't blame her. MollyBloom 05:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
In reference to your commnet to 65.106.151.211
It might be of interest to you (or not), that this IP address is the general IP Domain for <a href="http://www.georgeschool.org">George School</a>, and in all likelyhood it's not just one person that's doing the vandalism.
Rob Oliver
You wondered why I thought Oliver was creating an advertisement when I first saw his edits.... Evidently this is not the first time this has happened with his editing: Other editors have requested he not use Wikopedia as an advertisement for his business, where he was adding spam links to Wikopedia:
- Please stop adding spam links to your blog on Wikipedia. Blogs, especially new blogs with little content are not usually considered appropriate external links on Wikipedia, unless they are directly related to the article. As you can imagine if every plastic surgery related page had links to all of the plastic surgery related blogs out there, each page would have thousands of links at the bottom.
- Also, adding links to your own website is inappropriate, and constitutes a conflict of interest and is also considered a form of vandalism. Presuming that you are Dr. Rob Oliver, I would encourage you to make efforts to improve the content of articles related to your profession here on Wikipedia, rather than attempt to use Wikipedia to drive traffic to your new website, which is a bannable offense, should the behavior continue. Glowimperial 16:48, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I have little patience with this 'surgeon', and his poor professional ethics, if not overt slant on the studies and multiple reviews of those studies that he adds. I did not make this comment on the general article discussion, although I was tempted. To me, there is no doubt as to his motive. Regardless of my opinion on the matter, he again made a major edit, when it was highly unlikely that he did not see the comments in your revisions, and in the discussion page.
Oliver has not chosen to edit the article you provided. Instead, he ignores others' requests (not just mine, now) and makes major changes to the article without discussion or using the 'off-line' template. I know I have not yet made edits either to the offline article, but I will. We just got back today from an 8 hour trip to go pick up a puppy we had been waiting for for months. I must be out of my mind. Tonight he sits, too small to really bark, making noises like a gerbil and whining because we are not holding him but instead putting him in a puppy crate. Yes, I have my work cut out for me. But he is very cute.
Oh on another subject...the plastic surgeon & medical professor from Vermont is not the surgeon I was talking to you about. I do not know him, but the surgeon I spoke with does know him. If you 'google' Laub, you will find that he has a remarkable background, as does his father who is in the same area. He was correct about a photo I added, so I deleted that - it could indeed be misleading. Did you read that his sister had a similar experience as I have had, in becoming ill and after explant getting better? He also believes there is a systemic effect that will someday be proven. But unless there are major changes to funding and the political and business environment, I do not share that optimism. At the very least, I hope to help raise questions in whatever way I can. I have no interest in presenting one side only. I do think an article like this should accurately reflect the questions that still do exist. There are many plastic surgeons who do not glibly insist that silicone implants are safe. I also wonder about saline implants, as well. I am astonished at how many women have had health problems as a result of bacteria and fungus from defective valves or leaks in saline implants.molly bloom 03:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC) David, please read my response in the BI talk section to molly's complaint. As she was content to continue editing the main entry at her pleasure and ignore your side article for days, I took your recomendation and started to work on it there myself. Now she's furious over that. As far as the blog link, I encourage anyone to check it out for a "thrilling" expose on face-tranplants and pulsed EMF devices. Knowing more about the Wiki-world now, I wouldn't put in the links section even though it's not some blatant promotional device- RobDroliver 19:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
NYT article
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/02/health/02docs.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print
This is worth reading. One of the problems with journals....and I think this is especially true of plastic surgery.molly bloom 12:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Actually the appropriate context is this[5] which is an editorial on how partisan vandalism is destroying Wikipedia's credibility & this blog discussion on people's frustrations with Wikipedia activists[6] which has the perfect distillation for Molly's M.O., "It’s a neat trick — they demand that I propose changes on the discussion page, ignore me, then when I go ahead and make those changes they revert them, all the while complaining to an admin that I should be banned from editing because I won’t “discuss” changes. The real issues is that these people WANT the page to be massively non-NPOV and resent any efforts to alter their “pet project.”Droliver 15:15, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Benign Lymphocytic Meningitis
"Benign Lymphocytic Meningitis" is what is now known as Lymphocytic Choriomeningitis (LCM). It is caused by an arenavirus.
You may well have been right to remove it from the article on meningitis as it is not a terribly common illness (although seroprevalence in the U.S. is apparently approximately 5%), it is usually self-limiting and morbidity is low (less than 1%).
I added this reference hoping that others more knowledgeable and up-to-date than myself might add to it. I thought it was a ground-breaking article - as far as I know it is one of the earliest articles providing a good overall review of the disease including the fact that it was caused by a virus and providing strong (though circumstantial) evidence that it is spread by rodents (which was later confirmed).
The article itself was, I believe, published in 1948 (although the date is not marked on my reprint).
Perhaps it would be better to have just a brief mention of it in the article on Meningitis and a more up-to-date reference or link??? Finally, I was unable to find an online copy of the article. I hope I have answered your qestions sufficiently. Cheers, John Hill 23:21, 7 May 2006 (UTC).
- Interesting. The link therefore should be added to the Lymphocytic choriomeningitis article. However you probably should add (if known) when the name changed (otherwise the citation seems to make little immediate sense). I've ensured Lymphocytic choriomeningitis & Aseptic meningitis have cross-links to each other - therefore can you work the reference in ? David Ruben Talk 03:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, for that. I will have another think about it all and perhaps do something further when I have time. In the meantime, I have just added a link from the page on Meningitis to Lymphocytic choriomeningitis. Best wishes, John Hill 23:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
mental welfare commission for scotland
As you may have seen from the talk:National Health Service page the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland is not part of the NHS. It is rather an independent org set up by previous mental health law and whose remit was recently adjusted by the Mental Health (Care and treatment)(Scotland) Act 2003.
As http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2003/11/18547/29204 details:
Part 2 of the 2003 Act sets out provisions relating to the continued existence of the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland. The Commission will have:
*new duties to monitor the operation of the Act and to promote best practice; *specific powers and duties in relation to carrying out visits to patients, investigations, interviews and medical examinations, and to inspect records; and *powers and duties to publish information and guidance, and to give advice or bring matters to the attention of others in the mental health law system.
These powers and duties should enable the Commission to maintain and develop its vital role in protecting the rights of service users, and in promoting the effective operation of mental health law.
Schedule 1 of the Act sets out more detail on the membership, organisation and general powers of the Commission and makes provision for regulations to specify some matters in more detail, if necessary.
see also http://www.mwcscot.org.uk
--Ajvphilp 22:14, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Periodontal disease
Hi,
I am a general dentist who made some additions to the periodontitis entry. I see that you have deleted some passages from the editing. Are the passages scientifically questionable or not meeting wikipedia standards? I would be more comfortable if a dentist or specialist edited dental topics. There often is not too much of an overlap between medicine and dentistry.
Mamounjo 17:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you for your thoughtful questions and the multiple issues that you raised. I thought it best to copy this over to Talk:Periodontal disease where I could discuss at length the previous problems with the article's structuring, duplication of information, issues of fact/POV and finally the difficult balance of needing valuable knowledge from specialists yet also needing non-specialists to help copyedit articles into good general encyclopaedic entries. So please do feel free to comment back at Talk:Periodontal disease#Restructuring of article :-) Yours David Ruben Talk 02:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Re: External links
Thanks for your input regarding my question to Dr. Wolff. I appreciate the advice. btw, the article I was referring to was "Multiple Sclerosis." MedLink 17:16, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
NHS Project
I have optimistically launched Wikipedia:Wikiproject National Health Service - interested? - know anyone else who might be? - do please visit and comment/contribute if you wish --Smerus 22:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks
Thank you for participating in the Michael Woodruff peer review. As regards your suggestion, I'm trying to track down a photo of Woodruff. If you have access to one, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!
- There's a chance that comment was in the wrong place, it was intended for Wouterstomp. When I clicked his/her leave message link, it put the message here. If it doesn't apply, disregard it. Thanks! Cool3 19:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, my fault, changed the link now :-) --WS 20:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
David,
Good edit...I liked the way you divided the oral contraceptives page.
- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdbrown1998 (talk • contribs) 15:00, 19 May 2006
VandalProof 1.2 Now Available
After a lenghty, but much-needed Wikibreak, I'm happy to announce that version 1.2 of VandalProof is now available for download! Beyond fixing some of the most obnoxious bugs, like the persistent crash on start-up that many have experienced, version 1.2 also offers a wide variety of new features, including a stub-sorter, a global user whitelist and blacklist, navigational controls, and greater customization. You can find a full list of the new features here. While I believe this release to be a significant improvement over the last, it's nonetheless nowhere near the end of the line for VandalProof. Thanks to Rob Church, I now have an account on test.wikipedia.org with SysOp rights and have already been hard at work incorporating administrative tools into VandalProof, which I plan to make available in the near future. An example of one such SysOp tool that I'm working on incorporating is my simple history merge tool, which simplifies the process of performing history merges from one article into another. Anyway, if you haven't already, I'd encourage you to download and install version 1.2 and take it out for a test-drive. As always, your suggestions for improvement are always appreciated, and I hope that you will find this new version useful. Happy editing! --AmiDaniel (talk) 02:16, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
fraudster?
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mucoid_plaque&diff=prev&oldid=54828334 Midgley 03:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Questions
do you have a bad disease?If you do,then hope you recover soon!
- Thank you - (mostly) recovered now David Ruben Talk 03:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Dihydrocodeine
Hi, thanks for the message about dihydrocodeine. I'm actually not very familiar with the analgesic use of dihydrocodeine (it's not used for that indication in Australia), and just took the BNF and Martindale statements of "similar potency" at face value. Might you be able to clarify it on the dihydrocodeine page? Cheers. -Techelf 00:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
tinea
hi! I'll be happy to link to your website but the doc in question is in word format and is not universal. maybe html would be better? Hfwd 03:56, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Template:Drugbox
Thanks for all your improvements! --Arcadian 13:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Edit War Again on BI - large edits without discussion (on main on line article)
Would you please help with this article. I really don't mind making it more NPVO; I do mind massive blanks and changes that push the extreme other side by Rob Oliver. He is doing it again, without discussion, on the main online article. What can be done? Would you suggest something, please? Thanks.MollyBloom 19:17, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
AFD external canvassing
If the respondents are all longterm users of Wikipedia there is not a great deal one can do. Brand-new voters, who turn up, register, and vote, are usually spotted with Special:Contributions, and it may be useful to leave a note under their vote saying: "Note for the closing admin: this user's third edit". The admin who closes the AFD will make a tally with and without these votes, and will generally delete if there is consensus to delete without those meatpuppets.
If the chaos becomes too severe, there is always WP:ANI. The bottom line is: we don't have policies against off-site incitement. The test case was a troll called User:Amalekite, who posted the names of Jewish Wikipedians offline. His block was extremely controversial at the time. JFW | T@lk 07:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Rapid revert
Admins have a "rollback" button after each top-level edit. Clicking that will revert all the user's most recent contributions to the previous version. Someday experienced users like yourself may be able to apply for rollback privileges without becoming admins per se. JFW | T@lk 16:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ok - thanks. For now therefore quickest to contact an admin... :-) David Ruben Talk 16:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, You and I have just both reverted spam from this user, and left a warning on his Talk page ... clearly, though, this chap's just spamming like mad ... assuming he carries on, do you know the appropriate procedure for reporting him and so on? Because I'm not sure ... (Also, incidentally, this talk page is huge; you might want to archive some of the discussions!) Thanks --JennyRad 19:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comments; I've left a Final Warning on his page and will report him if he does anything else. Re archiving talk pages: WP:ARCHIVE appears to explain the pros and cons of the possible methods! Thanks. --JennyRad 19:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
- (Re: user now blocked) Brilliant, thanks! --JennyRad 22:14, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Www.shoptogive.us
Good call on removing that link from the Cancer article. Doesn't look legit. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Www.shoptogive.us. Fan1967 01:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
As a GP this may seem "nonsense" to you, but please read the milk fetishism article before reverting: it's very common and notable that Reglan/Metoclopramide is used for inducing lactation and mentioned on many other websites. This is sourced in the article too. --Anon! 22:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
- Response made at User talk:Anon! and thread started at Talk:Metoclopramide David Ruben Talk 08:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
birth control
"dd template. NB thi sarticle should NOT be added to this general schemeyet as still experimental devices)"
- Could certainly go under its own "experimental" line, no? — Omegatron 02:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Please see my comments on the talk page for the birth control template. MamaGeek (Talk/Contrib) 12:45, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I was just offering my help in addition to what ever you wanted to do. I know you called "dibs" on that stuff, but I was just offering additional help. But I agree completely with you, lets see how this stuff pans out on talk before making anything new (I always enjoy coding more than arguing over content disputes, or simply writing content for that matter, so my ears perked at the opertunity).--Andrew c 02:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- I was being very tongue-in-cheek on your talk page - so yes would love to work with you on this (and fully share in kudos/glory etc). I have similar feelings towards programing vs content - I was torn between going into computer science or medicine :-) David Ruben Talk 02:31, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
It's actually a translation of the original comments into Italian. Looks like the page was fed into Babel Fish or something. Fascinating, tho' ... :) - Ali-oops✍ 23:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Please watch
Please watch amygdala. Thank you. FranklinT 01:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Footnotes vs references
Hi David, welcome back from your break. I've always just used "references" because that seems to be the convention in scientific writing—having a reference section with full citations at the end of an article. I associate "footnotes" with, literally, footnotes on the bottom of each page in humanities-related articles (not necessarily containing full citations). WP:CITE doesn't really offer much insight into the issue, so I guess it doesn't really matter unless there's a need for footnotes and references in the same article. Cheers. -Techelf 09:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- Is there any policy on forcing a newline with comment tags for cite.php references, like you did on diabetes mellitus? I personally find the flowing format clearer, as one can see immediately which sentence is in which paragraph. JFW | T@lk 07:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- No, no policy, although other editors seemed to also prefer this at WP:Footnotes and its talk page. Purely personally, I prefer this appearance when viewed in edit mode as it makes the location of the links easier when scanning up & down the article (as I did when converting any non-template:cite xxx references to have the same consistant markup style or include link to full article using the provided 'url' parameter). I also (again purely personal pref) find it easier to keep tract of citation applying to a phrase or sentance coming after the punctuation. Diabetes management had this approach already applied, so I was just trying to be helpful whilst amending the citation markups. Feel free to remove if you wish - sob sob sob, seriously I don't mind :-) David Ruben Talk 19:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Comment
David
You criticised me for adding advertising material. The links provided were, in my opinion, neutrally based.
I was an academic and have several hundred articles and 56 books to my credit to date.
I regard the comment in Wikipedia as biased and anti-dietary supplements and alternative medicine in general. I do not think this provides for a balanced informed view.
For example melatonin entry is more balanced. Hoodia and Chitsoan isn’t. It may not confer all the claimed benefits but those benefits are actually dismissed without reference to a studies.
Please let me know which external links you object to because I would like to defend my actions.
Kind regards and thanks
Nick Taylor (published under Krish Bhaskar)
Nick Taylor1 14:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
DHEA
I thought that the section on DHEA should be kept separate.
And I see you have deleted the section on
7-Keto DHEA is a recently identified natural metabolite of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) which is both more effective and safer than DHEA because it does not convert itself into testosterone or estrogens in the body. In one word, 7-Keto DHEA possesses all the advantages of DHEA and - it is claimed - with none of the disadvantages.
Please note I have no interest in or connection with selling DHEA.
Now it seems to me that readers should want to know about this more advanced form of DHEA. For me it seems that this refined product forms part of the DHEA information. It is possible to add a separate entry but I would be against this.
That one external link provided the following information (refereces provided below):
• 7-Keto DHEA is structurally practically identical to DHEA, from which it is derived by an enzymatic conversion process taking place in the body. Professor Henry A. Lardy and his team have researched 7-Keto DHEA for ten years at the Institute of Research on Enzymes at the University of Wisconsin. Based on this research, Professor Lardy has obtained 9 patents for the uses of 7-Keto DHEA, for reinforcing and modulating the immune system, contributing to the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and favoring weight loss.
• The main worry of certain DHEA disparagers is that it will partly convert itself into sex hormones such as testosterone and estrogens. This seems to be an obvious advantage for the healthy, looking to combat age-associated hormonal decline. Unfortunately, this means advising all those with a personal or a family history of hormonal-dependent cancer risk (prostate, breast, ovarian) against taking DHEA. This rules out the important part of the elderly, who would gain the most, from the benefit of supplementation. And some women badly support the side effects due to an increase of androgens which can be induced by DHEA (acne, facial hair). For these, 7-Keto DHEA is the ideal solution. Doses as high as 500 mg/kg have been administered to primates with no adverse effect being observed. This is equivalent to more than 100 times the recommended dose for a human being. A human toxicity study confirmed that in doses of 200 mg/day for 28 days, 7-Keto DHEA did not negatively affect biological blood and urine tests.
• Lardy has demonstrated that 7-Keto DHEA is around 2.5 times more powerful, milligramme for milligramme, than DHEA, and this with no side effects. In fact, 7-Keto DHEA, metabolized in the body from DHEA, may be responsible for most of the beneficial effects attributed to DHEA. 7-Keto DHEA is more effective than DHEA for improving memory, inducing thermogenesis and reinforcing or modulating the immune system.
• 7-Keto DHEA is without doubt the most effective supplement available for helping to lose weight durably and rapidly. Lardy's work demonstrates that taking 7-Keto DHEA significantly increases the liver production of thermogenetic enzymes as well as the production of the thyroid hormone T3 (without influencing either TSH or T4, and so with no negative impact on thyroid function) with, as a consequence, a sure but certain rise in basal metabolism. One double blind study was carried out on subjects taking 100 mg of 7-Keto DHEA twice a day for 8 weeks. During this study, the subjects absorbed 1,800 calories per day and exercised (moderately) 3 times 60 minutes per week. The supplemented subjects lost three kilos, whereas the controlled ones lost only one. At this dose, and during this length of time, 7-Keto DHEA caused no side effects. All those preoccupied with weight control should consider supplementation in 7-Keto DHEA.
• All those taking DHEA can take 7-Keto DHEA if they are willing to pay a little more for a more effective and safer supplement. Those who cannot take DHEA because of the risk of hormonal-dependent cancer can take 7-Keto DHEA. With men who excessively aromatize testosterone, taking DHEA can lead to a simultaneous and undesirable increase in estradiol, a typically feminine estrogen. Replacing DHEA with 7-Keto DHEA will avoid this. Those wishing to effectively control their weight over a long period of time should make 7-Keto DHEA one of their basic supplements. Where DHEA does not succeed, or not succeed enough, 7-Keto DHEA, an active and improved form, should be tried.
• Twenty-five to 50 mg per day is sufficient supplementation for the healthy, or in the case of an anti-aging programme. If you take 50 mg per day, it is preferable to divide the dose between two meals. Higher doses can be advised for limited periods.
And the following references: • Weeks C., Hardy H., Henwood S. Preclinical toxicology evaluation of 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone (7-Keto DHEA), FASEB J 1998;12:A4428. • Henwood S. M., Weeks C. E., Lardy H. An escalating dose oral gavage study of 3 beta-acetoxyandrost-5-ene, 17 dione (7-ox-DHEA acetate) in Rhesus monkeys. Biochem. Biophys. Res. Commun, 1999;254:120-3. • Davidson M. H., Weeks C. E., Lardy H., et al. Safety and endocrine effects of 3-acetyl-7-oxo DHEA (7-Keto DHEA) FASEB J 1998;12:A4429. • Colker et al., Double blind study evaluating the effect of exercise plus 3-acetyl-7-oxo dehydroepiandrosterone on body composition and the endocrine system in overweight adults. J. Exercise Physiology online, 1999;341:122-8. • Shi J., Lardy H. 3beta-hydroxyandrost-5-ene-7, 17 dione (7-Keto DHEA) improves memory in mice. FASEB J 1998;12:A4427. • Shi J., Schulze S., Lardy H. The effect of 7-oxo-DHEA acetate on memory in young and old C5577BL/6 mice. 2000;65(3):124-9. • Davidson M., Lardy H., et al. Safety and pharmacokinetic study with escalating doses of 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone in healthy male volunteers. Clin Invest Med. Vol23, n° 5, Oct 2000.
Nick Taylor1 14:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- If that site provided all those links, then I appologies for not having looked hard enough at the site - you make some good points and I have therefore copied your post over to Talk:Dehydroepiandrosterone and posted some thoughts there :-) David Ruben Talk 15:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I do believe that they should merge as they co relate . the former is the cause of the latter
Harry Buncke
Scratch all of it. I couldn't keep up with you. You are FAST. Thanks for fixing it. Oliver does this all the time. He is also vandalizing article I am editing that have nothing to do with breast implants. But I think I can handle it,. I surely do not disrespect medical doctors, but I must admit that he is making me wonder about some of them. jgwlaw 05:33, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Drugbox
Hi David, you made some changes today to the drugbox template - getting rid of the red link if no image exists. This is great, but it has had the effect that some pages employing the use of the drugbox (e.g. aspirin) only show image2 and not image. Can you fix it?
Cheers Ben 15:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC).
- So it does - however I had used amoxycillin as my test page for 2 images and that works - will look into this further.David Ruben Talk 16:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
- Ah Image.Aspirin-skeletal.svg does not exist, which explains why only the image2 is shown ! So not problem of the template but of image name chosen, phew :-) Now whatever happened to aspirin's line drawing ? I'll trawl back through the aspirin article's history... David Ruben Talk 16:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
- Image:Aspirin-skeletal.svg exists! The same problem occurs at many drug pages (although not all - see cyclophosphamide for one not affected - I just checked chloramphenicol and there's a problem there.
- Sorry if I've wrongly accused you! I just noticed this problem this afternoon. I thought you'd like to know either way.
- Ben 16:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC).
- So it does (drats) - funny using the search box on each page acts differently for different images. For Image:Aspirin-skeletal.svg it fails to launch into the page, but offers a link to jump to it. Whereas searching for Image:Amoxicillin.png jumps directly there. Could you have a look at pages you tested to see if this is a problem with .svg files rather than .png ? David Ruben Talk 16:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
- I've just had a look at chloramphenicol. Its first image is a PNG, so it doesn't seem that the SVG format is the root of the problem. I should also take the opportunity to say I've seen many of your contributions to WP over the past few months and I think you're a really good editor.
- Best wishes
- Ben 16:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC).
- Thanks :-) I've copied the template coding for image display across to the template sandbox Template:Add code and displayed the chloramphenicol & cyclophosphamide templates it the sandbox's talk page Template talk:Add code which shows there is a problem of whether a png page is explicitly defined or via the PAGENAME variable. For now I'll revert back the Drugbox template and ask someone wiser than myself to spot my error. David Ruben Talk 16:49, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Apomorphine
Hi David,
Thanks for sorting out the references on Apomorphine, when I added my bit I didn't know how the references worked, hence my copy-pasting the existing ones and them all being "b"!
Thanks
Paul --PaulWicks 07:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
general tojo
you're welcome. Let me know if you want User:Davidruben to be protected. -- Chris 73 | Talk 18:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
RE: Thanks
No probs. I have had to block quite a few of his sockpuppets recently. Cheers TigerShark 18:20, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
GSL on the paracetamol article
As I'm not a practitioner i thought i'd consult before changing, but dont you think it would be more practical to list the legal status of paracetamol as "OTC" instead of GSL? searching for GSL on wikipedia redirects to OTC anyway -- jpiper 16:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
No - OTC merely is the opposite of POM in that it is available from a counter without a prescription, it does not have to apply to products that undergo licensing process (so a cotton triangle bought to use as a sling is bought OTC but has required no licensing, similar might be sodium bicarbonate bought from a supermarket to add to bath water for a child irritated by the itch of chickenpox). OTC you see is not a legal term, but a descriptive one - is not applied to a medicine's packaging box. When we consider medicines obtained without a prescription, then being a medicinal product it must undergo a licensing process. The license granted is (if not POM) either that it may only be supplied under the supervision of a Pharmacist, P-medicines, or the more freely available category of GSL (General Sales List) - eg paracetamol sold at garages and supermarkets (who do not have in-store pharmacies). So a GSL is more widely available than a P, although both are OTCs, as is bleach which is not a drug at all. The terms POM, CD & P must legally be shown in the UK on the packaging (I'm not sure if 'GSL' is applied). Even GSL has restrictions imposed (eg number of tablets supplied in a pack and, in case of paracetamol, number of packs that may be sold at anyone time).
The GSL to OTC redirect is in part because OTC is the overall topic and because wikipedia is not just UK-based, so OTC will/should compare differing non-prescrition regulatiry systems.
Licensed drug | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
OTC | Precription required | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GSL | POM | POM(CD) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hope this helps David Ruben Talk 17:31, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the information David.
I was aware that P, POM etc. existed, but thought GSL was just a synonym for OTC (I didn't realise that it was an umbrella term). I'll keep it in mind for future edits (Maybe I should add the BNF to my bedtime reading!) --jpiper 19:12, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to commend you on adding the scheduling parameters - they've made it incredibly easier to add this information. Fvasconcellos 21:09, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
user 24.191.56.163
Hi. User 24.191.56.163 appears to be adding spam links to the gynecomastia article. I've reported it to one of the administrators. - Cybergoth 01:39, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
® Marks
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I disagree with your use of ® in paracetamol.
If you start a phrase with "x is marketed as y" (or in this case "x is known as brand names y, z") then I see no reason for the ® mark to be used, as a brand name is implied, however, the sentence "drug x, most commonly known as y" would warrant a ® mark as a reader would be unsure if y is a brand name, a chemical name, or other.
Your "use ® for the first instance of the name" idea makes sense, but in my opinion it would become redundant in articles that illustrate a long list of brand names for a drug. Maybe a concrete policy should be drafted - jpiper 01:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Temporomandibular joint disorder revert warring
Hi, we've seem recently to have been revert-warring which is to be regretted. I am not clear why you disliked all or part of my edit, to I have started a discussion thread Talk:Temporomandibular joint disorder#Edit war re atypical symptoms.
To state as you did in an edit summary "Shame on you", was I believe, an ad hominem attack and failed to WP:Assume good faith. Of course neck/shoulder "are different parts of the anatomy" from upper or lower back. However, regional anatomy is not the only classification system one may use when listing symptoms & causes of disease. It seemed perfectly reasonable, to me, to classify pains in these areas together as non-localised musculoskeletal pain symptoms ('localised' referring to whether local to the TMJ itself, rather than whether pain is well circumscribed in any given area, and distinct from non-pain symptoms of limited opening or clicking sounds). As such they are intriguing - pain over a disordered joint seems obvious, but not pain some distance away. Such symptoms can not be intuitively guessed upon, but rather must be identified through clinical observation/research. These non-localised symptoms warrant explanation as to their mechanism, e.g. much as for earache being due to referred pain. Also this last point repeatedly deleted with your reverts to my overall edit.
I look forward to your comments on the article's talk page. David Ruben Talk 21:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
- These arguments of yours belong on the talk page - where I have, and always do, make mine, if not entirely covered in the edit summary. I am copying these comments also to your talk page, so that you are sure to find them. You have been repeatedly deleting and obscuring the back pain symptom from the tmjd page, WITHOUT A SINGLE SOURCE TO ASSIST YOU. It is getting harder to assume good faith. It is long since time you got some sources for your repeated edits. You demanded I produce a source, and I immediately did, yet you continue to delete/obsure the fully sourced fact, while claiming to be an ignorant general practitioner (i.e."no dental training whatsoever" (talk at DavidRuben 23:15, 28 May 2006 (UTC)) whose experience consists of little else than the six or so clients he sees a year seeking pain relief. (talk at DavidRuben 23:15, 28 May 2006 (UTC)) pat8722 22:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
- Most importantly, lets keep the tmjd discussion on the tmjd talk page. We want all readers to have the full conversation available in one place for easy review and understanding. pat8722 22:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC)