→Unblock|Your reason here: Another point that I would like to make is that I rarely if ever report anybody about anything, but the horde mentality so prevalent here has reported every misconstrued |
Freshacconci (talk | contribs) FYI |
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Yes, establishing consensus is a lot harder than taking a poll. So are most things worth doing. |
Yes, establishing consensus is a lot harder than taking a poll. So are most things worth doing. |
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== FYI == |
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Hey [[User:Bus stop|Bus stop]]--I've made a personal [[User_talk:Durova#Blocking_of_Bus_stop|appeal]] to the two admins who blocked and upheld the block against you as I felt the indefinite block was unusually excessive. I've followed the situation from a distance as I don't know too much about the subject matter. I am inclined to side with you on your principle points, in particular the agenda to promote Christianity through wikipedia (I know born-agains and recognize their tactics), and as well, the ganging up tactics used to discredit you. However, to be blunt, I'm not in favour of your own tactics and have felt you let things get out of control, rather than step back and find a different approach. The admin [[User:Durova|Durova]] has made an offer which you may want to consider. I won't get involved beyond this, mainly out of respect for you (I wasn't sure if "budding in" was the answer or would be considered insulting or patronising). Good luck and don't let the bastards get you down. [[User:Freshacconci|Freshacconci]] 16:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 16:31, 26 June 2007
Wikipedia's cesspool
There's a good deal of lowlife activity on Wikipedia. (There is also a lot of good work done on Wikipedia.) List of notable converts to Christianity is primarily a cesspool of the worst I have ever stumbled upon on Wikipedia. Bus stop 13:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Indefinite block
Per Wikipedia:Disruptive editing, this account has been blocked indefinitely for persistent refusal to abide by site policies. DurovaCharge! 04:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Indefinite Christian antisemitism
Per Christian antisemitism, List of notable converts to Christianity uses that article (list) to "showcase" Jews. If they have ever displayed any passing interest in Christianity, especially if they have celebrity status (Bob Dylan, for instance) they are fair game for that article, which has been a locus of antisemitism since its inception. Bus stop 09:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Indefinite Christian anti-atheism
Per Christian anti-atheism, List of notable converts to Christianity uses that article (list) to "showcase" Atheists. If they have ever displayed any passing interest in Christianity, especially if they have celebrity status (Larry Flynt, for instance) they are fair game for that article, which has been a locus of anti-atheism since its inception. Ttiotsw 11:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is debatable whether atheism is a religion. Bus stop 12:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Unblock|Your reason here
Bus stop (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
editing an article shouldn't be a reason to be blocked
Decline reason:
You were not blocked for merely editing, but for being disruptive. Mangojuicetalk 14:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
I was not been blocked for being disruptive. I have engaged in far more Talk page dialogue than any other editor. I have tried to argue my point of view on the article's Talk page. You obviously have not looked at the article's Talk page if you think I have been "disruptive." What I have tried to do, far more than any editor in this discussion, is to articulate my argument using the article's Talk page. That, in Wikipedia terms, is the opposite of disruption. That, in fact, is essential to Wikipedia. My comments on the Talk page especially in recent days have been vandalized repeatedly. In fact the use of the Talk page in recent days has been all about vandalism. My remarks were moved. Other people moved or removed their remarks. Topic headers were inserted separating my comment from the person I was responding to. That I also edited the article on occasion too is not a violation of any policy. As an editor I have as much right as any of the other editors to directly make changes to the article. I have been anything but "disruptive." I have been articulate on the Talk page -- that is what this is all about. Rather than engage me in dialogue editors have chosen to report me on ridiculous charges, and engage in a lot of personal attacks, to which I have by and large not responded. It is my reasoning, articulated on the article's Talk page that has the present bunch of editors fuming. They cannot engage me in dialogue because I am using sound logic to present an argument. There have been plenty of personal attacks, and they have not been by me. I never called any individual an antisemite. I have characterized the placement of a known Jew on a list of converts to Christianity as antisemitic. That is my prerogative, because it is a comment on the article; it is not a comment on an editor. Any and every excuse has been attempted to harass me and get me blocked and drive me away -- just as they've successfully driven away several other people whose opinions were dissenting. Please just look at the Talk page. I don't think there is any reason why I should have to point to anything on the Talk page in particular. The bulk of my involvement with this article involves the articulation of a point of view. That was done by me on the article's Talk page. Nothing in that articulation of an argument in countless posts on the article's Talk page constitutes "disruption." Please see below for some applicable policies in support of this argument. And please, just look at the Talk page for yourself. Bus stop 15:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Another point that I would like to make is that I rarely if ever report anybody about anything, but the horde mentality so prevalent here has reported every misconstrued misstep that they could possibly find or dream up about me. Bus stop 15:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a democracy
Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy or any other political system. Its primary method of determining consensus is discussion, not voting. Although editors occasionally use straw polls in an attempt to test for consensus, polls or surveys may actually impede rather than assist discussion. They should be used with caution, if at all, and may not be treated as binding.
Polling discourages consensus
Having the option of settling a dispute by taking a poll, instead of the careful consideration, dissection and eventual synthesis of each side's arguments, actually undermines the progress in dispute resolution that Wiki has allowed. Wikipedia is not a democracy. This is a strength, not a failing. Dialectics is one of the most important things that make Wiki special, and while taking a poll is very often a lot easier than helping each other find a mutually agreeable position, it's almost never better.
Polling encourages the community to remain divided by avoiding that discourse; participants don't interact with the other voters, but merely choose camps. Establishing consensus requires expressing that opinion in terms other than a choice between discrete options, and expanding the reasoning behind it, addressing the points that others have left, until all come to a mutually agreeable solution. No one can address objections that aren't stated, points that aren't made.
Yes, establishing consensus is a lot harder than taking a poll. So are most things worth doing.
FYI
Hey Bus stop--I've made a personal appeal to the two admins who blocked and upheld the block against you as I felt the indefinite block was unusually excessive. I've followed the situation from a distance as I don't know too much about the subject matter. I am inclined to side with you on your principle points, in particular the agenda to promote Christianity through wikipedia (I know born-agains and recognize their tactics), and as well, the ganging up tactics used to discredit you. However, to be blunt, I'm not in favour of your own tactics and have felt you let things get out of control, rather than step back and find a different approach. The admin Durova has made an offer which you may want to consider. I won't get involved beyond this, mainly out of respect for you (I wasn't sure if "budding in" was the answer or would be considered insulting or patronising). Good luck and don't let the bastards get you down. Freshacconci 16:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)