Stephen Burnett (talk | contribs) →[[Francis Bacon]]: well done |
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I've been watching the discussion on [[Talk:Francis_Bacon]] for some time. Although I am not in any way competent to participate in it, I felt that I must compliment you on your unfailing courtesy and objectivity in the face of what, I have to say, can only be regarded as a virulent personal attack. Personally I would not have had your forbearance - well done. --[[User:Stephen Burnett|Stephen Burnett]] 09:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC) |
I've been watching the discussion on [[Talk:Francis_Bacon]] for some time. Although I am not in any way competent to participate in it, I felt that I must compliment you on your unfailing courtesy and objectivity in the face of what, I have to say, can only be regarded as a virulent personal attack. Personally I would not have had your forbearance - well done. --[[User:Stephen Burnett|Stephen Burnett]] 09:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC) |
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Just a quick response to one of your approaches to Bacon...I'm not all-too-qualified in this area, and this will sound rather vague, but I'm not sure if this might be a reason for discussing Bacon's sexuality. It is sometimes claimed that Bacon regarded scientific pursuit as a mode of male exploration of a female body. Some have argued, as a minor point of interest, that this is a theme throughout colonialism and the scientific enlightenment. Anyway, the point is: the claim that Bacon's mode of thinking of scientific discovery is gendered and sexualised may well make discussion of sexuality relevant in the long run. Of course, this is rather vague, but I thought it worth mentioning. |
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Anyway, it's good to see such commitment to wikipedia. It's well worth kudos. Great stuff. [[User:Bosola|Bosola]] 10:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 10:36, 22 June 2007
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on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 22:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Mediation
Hi Aburesz, I will be mediating the dispute on Ascended master at Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Ascended_master. Please indicate on that page whether you are interested in mediation. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 03:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you for posting your concerns on my talk page. Are you interested in mediation regarding these issues and any other issues mentioned on Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Ascended_master? --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 12:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, As mediation requires the agreement of all parties involved. If you do not agree to mediation the case will be rejected. Please respond by Friday to avoid rejection of the case. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 00:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I have agreed to Mediation, and welcome this opportunity to restore a neutral, academic and informative atmosphere to the article page on the topic of "Ascended Masters" - which is NOT unique to any one person or religious organization. Aburesz 16:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you. If you go back in the history to the original Ascended Master article from eight or nine months ago, it also included for example the Eight immortals of Daoism. Theosophy is only one of many religious traditions that believes in this concept.Keraunos 09:10, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Mediation
Hi, I have sent you and the other members involved in the dispute at Ascended master an email using Special:Emailuser/Aburesz. Once everyone has responded mediation will begin by email. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 23:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Retreats
What exactly is a "retreat"? According to the Church Universal and Triumphant it is possible to go there when you sleep, so apparently it is on the etheric plane or astral plane. I assume you are saying that it is not a whole "etheric city" but simply a small ashram on the etheric plane where people are said to go at night, would that be correct? Keraunos 09:05, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
I admire you for keeping your nerve there even when being outnumbered and insulted; however, the point is surely to argue only for a proportionate representation of the matter rather than to challenge the work of writers on the subject. There surely is a case to be made that Bacon might have been a homosexual, but it needs to be made dispassionately and without overemphasis if the article is not to sound amateurish. I would favour a formulation of the following sort, which I found in Zagorin: "Although the question of Bacon’s sexual identity will probably always remain a puzzle, the likelihood that he may have been a homosexual is undeniable". Good historical scholars will speculate but always acknowledge the limits of that speculation: what is lacking in the article for me (apart from proportion) is the hedging language with which I'm familiar from scholarship (might, probably, likely, perhaps, on the other hand, can be interpreted, etc.). qp10qp 22:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
- The trouble is that for you to argue against what writers have written is original research. As with women's studies, there are scholars of gay history who have reinterpreted history according to a non-traditional agenda, determined to unlock secret history, codes, etc. Much of this work may strike one as tendentious; but as long as these writers are in print and we are not, then their theories are validly referenceable on Wikipedia. However, the article is very unsatisfactory at the moment because those who would use material from such books have gone about it in the wrong way. They should quote the scholars rather than the primary sources (which in themselves prove nothing); if they did so with integrity, they would find that, as in the quotation from Zagorin above, claims that Bacon was homosexual are always circumscribed. Even scholars who conclude that Bacon was homosexual will note, for example, that d'Ewes, being Bacon's enemy, is an unreliable source, that other possible sources were written later on the basis of gossip or in a political atmosphere that reviled anyone associated with the Stuarts; they will also place his mother's letter in context. None of this balancing comment is reflected in the article.qp10qp 23:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your note. I just wish I had as an extensive Francis Bacon library as you apparently do. I am proud of what I do have, though, especially the books by Batchelor, Pott, Dodd and Dawkins. Artemis1102 04:50, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
I've been watching the discussion on Talk:Francis_Bacon for some time. Although I am not in any way competent to participate in it, I felt that I must compliment you on your unfailing courtesy and objectivity in the face of what, I have to say, can only be regarded as a virulent personal attack. Personally I would not have had your forbearance - well done. --Stephen Burnett 09:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick response to one of your approaches to Bacon...I'm not all-too-qualified in this area, and this will sound rather vague, but I'm not sure if this might be a reason for discussing Bacon's sexuality. It is sometimes claimed that Bacon regarded scientific pursuit as a mode of male exploration of a female body. Some have argued, as a minor point of interest, that this is a theme throughout colonialism and the scientific enlightenment. Anyway, the point is: the claim that Bacon's mode of thinking of scientific discovery is gendered and sexualised may well make discussion of sexuality relevant in the long run. Of course, this is rather vague, but I thought it worth mentioning.
Anyway, it's good to see such commitment to wikipedia. It's well worth kudos. Great stuff. Bosola 10:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)