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::::For what it's worth I set up [[:Category:Pages using infobox drug with a pregnancy comment]] for the pages using the pregnancy comment. |
::::For what it's worth I set up [[:Category:Pages using infobox drug with a pregnancy comment]] for the pages using the pregnancy comment. |
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::::The more I look into this, the more I wonder if the [[Template:Infobox drug/pregnancy category|entire template subpage]] shouldn't be reworked - basically the only reason there's {{para|pregnancy_XX}} and {{para|pregnancy_XX_comment}} is so that we can link to a country-specific section of [[Pregnancy category]]. Given that the label already does that, we're just duplicating links. I say we drop the linking for {{para|pregnancy_XX}}, and convert {{para|pregnancy_XX_comment}} into {{para|pregnancy_XX_ref}} for sole use as a reference. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 21:28, 2 August 2020 (UTC) |
::::The more I look into this, the more I wonder if the [[Template:Infobox drug/pregnancy category|entire template subpage]] shouldn't be reworked - basically the only reason there's {{para|pregnancy_XX}} and {{para|pregnancy_XX_comment}} is so that we can link to a country-specific section of [[Pregnancy category]]. Given that the label already does that, we're just duplicating links. I say we drop the linking for {{para|pregnancy_XX}}, and convert {{para|pregnancy_XX_comment}} into {{para|pregnancy_XX_ref}} for sole use as a reference. [[User:Primefac|Primefac]] ([[User talk:Primefac|talk]]) 21:28, 2 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{od}} re {{U|Primefac}} {{tq|1=why it matters}} &tc: you lost me. What do yoo actually say or propose? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 23:24, 2 August 2020 (UTC) |
Revision as of 23:24, 2 August 2020
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What is GoodRx and why should we add it to the drugbox?
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As for what GoodRx is, their support page probably explains it best:
As for why we should add it to the drugbox:
See this Google search for the string 'insulin cost United States death' and just pick any article (e.g., [1], [2] [3]) In a nutshell, they all say the same thing: the rising prices of insulin analogs in the United States has made it prohibitively costly for some people to fill a prescription for one of those drugs. The clinical efficacy of insulin analogs for diabetes is completely irrelevant if people can't afford to buy them. The news articles from the google search and the examples I provided all say that insulin analogs (nearly all of which cost >$300 out of pocket per the news articles and from checking every link in GoodRx's insulins drug category page; NB: the prices listed next to the drugs on that page are "GoodRx fair prices", not the lowest price with their coupons) are prohibitively costly for diabetics without health insurance; some ration their insulin and/or don't fill prescriptions, and in some cases doing that has led to diabetic ketoacidosis and resulted in death, as stated in those sources. The majority of those articles specifically mention prices for various dosage forms of brand name or generic Humalog (insulin lispro), which is the cheapest short-acting insulin analog (NB: none of those articles mention GoodRx or online drug coupons). If you compare the prices for brand name Humalog/generic insulin lispro mentioned in the sources to the retail prices on GoodRx's generic Humalog page, you'll notice they're more-or-less the same as what's listed there, but GoodRx's Coupons for generic Humalog discount the retail price by ~60% for all three dosage forms (i.e., the kwikpen, carton, and vial). In other words, if someone with diabetes lacks insurance and can only afford to pay a certain $ amount out of pocket for generic Humalog each month due to financial constraints, using GoodRx Coupons will more than double their purchasing power of insulin lispro at that $ amount (i.e., with GoodRx coupons, a consumer with a limited/fixed budget can buy approximately 2.5 times as much insulin lispro for the same total cost as they could without those coupons). That increase in purchasing power could very well obviate the need for a person to ration insulin or forego their prescriptions, thereby mitigating the ketoacidosis risk.
This is a study of prescription drug economics/cost-minimization conducted by USC that used GoodRx data+coupons; I've quoted all of the relevant content from this source on GoodRx below.[1] It's not the only pubmed-indexed article that used GoodRx data for research purposes (e.g., PMID 28895827, 30796990), but it's the only one I've come across that analyzed the utility of GoodRx for prescription drug cost minimization in the United States. It's worth reading the excerpts below IMO.
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Following up on Talk:Epinephrine (medication)#Cost information in the United States, what do others think of placing a GoodRx link in the drugbox template? We could use a left-hand side field as "US consumer prices" and the RHS could just link directly to the corresponding GoodRx webpage(s) listed on Wikidata for an article (that'd require creating an identifier property for GoodRx). I'd be willing to add the corresponding identifiers to all of the Wikidata entries on prescription drugs listed on the GoodRx website with a bot if there's consensus to do add it to the drugbox. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 18:49, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
- First impression: better not. GoodRx is not encyclopedic, is it? It's like a marketing tool. -DePiep (talk) 18:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
- Drug articles currently contain price information and most reputable sources (even including a number of PubMed-indexed publications) that report US consumer price information cite GoodRx’s drug prices. Anyway, since individual drug products from different pharmacies are perfect substitutes, the only factor that matters in marketing drug products (by a pharmacy, not a pharmaceutical company) is price. So, that website is more of a cost-minimization tool for consumers than a marketing tool for pharmacies. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 02:41, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- How is it encyclopedic to provide the cost links? WP:LINKFARM comes to mind. What's next? Second car prices? Also, the information is US specific. ~So far, I object to including this. -DePiep (talk) 13:48, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- @DePiep: Amphetamine is an atypical example since most drugs don't have 6 approved formulations. Even so, I could just add the top 2 or 3 most prescribed formulations and list the brand names instead of lengthier generic names (NB: if a formulation has a generic, price data for either the brand name version or generic version can be displayed by selecting brand/generic in the dropdown list at the top left of the corresponding webpage, so it isn't misleading to list the brand name instead of the generic name); . That data is included on each of their drug product webpages.
- Re the US-centric data: we already have 3 US-specific fields in the current drugbox (see the 2nd drugbox example below for amphetamine). If desired, we could change the LHS to "Consumer prices" and modify the RHS to prepend US: to permit the inclusion of price data for other countries/regions that are currently supported by the drugbox.
- Would doing it that way be more amenable to you? Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 22:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- How is it encyclopedic to provide the cost links? WP:LINKFARM comes to mind. What's next? Second car prices? Also, the information is US specific. ~So far, I object to including this. -DePiep (talk) 13:48, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: Could you offer your input? Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 06:16, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- What does "RHS" stand for? I am okay with GoodRx. We also have this website which I primarily use for US prices.[4]
- User:Seppi333 do you have an example of what you propose? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:14, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- Drug articles currently contain price information and most reputable sources (even including a number of PubMed-indexed publications) that report US consumer price information cite GoodRx’s drug prices. Anyway, since individual drug products from different pharmacies are perfect substitutes, the only factor that matters in marketing drug products (by a pharmacy, not a pharmaceutical company) is price. So, that website is more of a cost-minimization tool for consumers than a marketing tool for pharmacies. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 02:41, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Chemical and physical data | |
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Formula | C9H13NO |
Molar mass | 151.209 g·mol−1 |
- @Doc James: Using the drugbox to the right for reference, the left-hand side (LHS) fields are "Formula" and "Molar mass" and the corresponding right-hand side (RHS) fields are C9H13NO and 151.209 g·mol−1.
Since a given drug article may have several drug products associated with it, I'd code it so that it pulls the GoodRx pagenames (which is the name of the drug product) and corresponding urls from WikiData and displays each entry in a list using this syntax:[GoodRx_url Pagename_of_Drug_product]
; e.g., Amphetamine Salt Combo, Amphetamine Salt Combo XR, Mydayis, Adzenys XR-ODT, Dyanavel XR, Amphetamine Sulfate, Dexedrine Spansule, Zenzedi, Lisdexamfetamine. Those products and links are the same ones from this table: Amphetamine#Pharmaceutical products. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 07:33, 12 August 2019 (UTC) - Generally speaking, I don't think most drugs will have that many links; e.g., the amphetamine article would only have the first 6 above listed in its drugbox. I need to request access to GoodRx's database to obtain the pagenames, urls, and hopefully the corresponding INN for each drug product to be able to program a bot to add these though (lacking the INN would make this task a pain in the ass). Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 07:37, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: Using the drugbox to the right for reference, the left-hand side (LHS) fields are "Formula" and "Molar mass" and the corresponding right-hand side (RHS) fields are C9H13NO and 151.209 g·mol−1.
- I'll code a template sandbox example in a bit. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 07:52, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: Example shown to the right. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 22:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- It would be nice to have the actual numbers within Wikipedia not just the links. People should not have to go elsewhere.
- Am working on a clean up of Wikidata's medication information. We are going to work on making sure all entires have the proper INN (in multiple languages), followed by adding the medicaid pricing information for wholesale. We could also than look at adding GoodRx data. We could than whichever number we want from Wikidata. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:07, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how wholesale price information would be useful to any of our readers. The intent behind my proposal is to link to current consumer drug price and pharmacy information externally, not list historical consumer price data internally; we can't provide the current price data on Wikipedia since consumer drug prices in the US change frequently and it doesn't seem feasible to regularly automatically update drug prices from the GoodRx database: assuming we were able to pull drug price data from GoodRx's database whenever we wanted, we'd have to edit a couple thousand wikidata items every time we import new price data from their database. Our readers who are interested in current price data would have to go to their website regardless of whether we list GoodRx price data on WP since we don't provide the necessary drug coupons for buying a medication at those prices and we wouldn't list the corresponding pharmacy to which the GoodRx price we list pertains.
- Like I said before, I'm willing to write a bot script in python to import the urls and pagenames from GoodRx to the appropriate wikidata items if there's consensus to add the external links. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 04:53, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: Example shown to the right. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 22:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
- I'll code a template sandbox example in a bit. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 07:52, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Opposesupport I advocate for human readable information in the infobox, and for machine readable information and external link collections to be at the bottom in an authority control box. We have discussed drug infoboxes a lot in the past. I do not like the present boxes with the collection of links which take up valuable space and human attention at the top of the article but which either or both convey no useful information and advertise an external collection. I would support the addition of GoodRx and similar database links at the bottom of the article but oppose it being added to the collection in the highly visible infobox at the top. Additionally I advocate for the other links being removed from the top and for the infobox to be entirely intended to convey topic-specific information to humans. My opposition is not about GoodRx and is only about adding more coded information and brand advertising. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:27, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
- Bravo. This is a good description of the concept of WP:INFOBOX, and the deviation {{Infobox drug}} has accumulated. Too often the infobox is seen (by highly regarded editors in this) as a data sheet for consumers & doctors, not an encyclopedic summary of a medicine. Earlier on, I suggested we could move a set of data to the External links section, probably in a template but definitely not an infobox. Similar issue plays in {{Chembox}}. -DePiep (talk) 05:25, 14 August 2019 (UTC)]
- Different people have different opinions on the layout and content of infoboxes, as it's not standardized. MOS:INFOBOX doesn't preclude the inclusion of ELs in infoboxes after all. Other editors think infoboxes detract from articles. Removing all the ELs from the infobox isn't the "right way" to present summary/supplemental data to our readers; it's merely one way of doing it. As for the EL template, we are 100% going to use a scaled down version of the drugbox. When I said – "
The first is that I imagine a lot of readers will have no clue what happened to every drugbox on Wikipedia if we suddenly cut them in half without providing some kind of indication of what we did with the other half of the drugbox data (it's not like they're going to know we've moved it to an EL section and I doubt most of them will scroll all the way to the bottom of the article to try to find what we did with it). The second is that all of those links are still very much pertitent to the Drugbox even after being split out, so there should be a means of navigating to them quickly within the Drugbox (this is analogous to the "Supplementary data page" link in the chembox).
" – I meant it at face value. We're going to cut the drugbox in two and keep the appearance identical; and, that's why that there's going to be a link from the drugbox at the top of the page to the External data half at the bottom. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 22:58, 14 August 2019 (UTC)- No, the appearences of an infobox, any infobox, follows from its informational description (say MOS:INFOBOX). For exampple, since it is some summary of the article topic, we can not reuse it for an EL list. Sure readers might be surprised when the Drugbox changes (half a dozen el's disappear), but that does not imply that the new EL list is an infobox in any sense (this is more a soft change management issue). After all, this is removing those el's from Drugbox because they don't belong in the infobox. -DePiep (talk) 19:22, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
- Bravo. This is a good description of the concept of WP:INFOBOX, and the deviation {{Infobox drug}} has accumulated. Too often the infobox is seen (by highly regarded editors in this) as a data sheet for consumers & doctors, not an encyclopedic summary of a medicine. Earlier on, I suggested we could move a set of data to the External links section, probably in a template but definitely not an infobox. Similar issue plays in {{Chembox}}. -DePiep (talk) 05:25, 14 August 2019 (UTC)]
Clinical data | |
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License data | |
../licence/sandbox | |
License data |
@Bluerasberry and DePiep: I've added a lengthy explanation about what GoodRx is, the services it provides, the motivation for adding this link to the drugbox, and clearly illustrated the utility of GoodRx to consumers with 2 examples. I strongly suggest reading all of it; but, at the very least, just read the quoted excerpts from the journal citation.
- @DePiep: I've modified the LHS and RHS to prepend "US:" on the RHS for consistency with the other fields. I'm completely open to suggestions/feedback on this and would also be fine with limiting the number of external links to 2 for the RHS if limiting it to 3 is still a problem for you; that said, I'd be pretty appalled if, after reading what I wrote in the collapse tab above, you still felt opposed to adding a GoodRx field to the drugbox solely because it includes retail price data and drug coupons.
- @Bluerasberry: See the drugbox to the right for the "Clinical data" fields that I'm referring to immediately below, including the proposed GoodRx field. I agree with you that the identifiers should probably be moved but I strongly disagree about the clinical data links. It is not even remotely possible for us to include the price information and GoodRx coupons for drugs on Wikipedia that're listed on the GoodRx website; the only way to make that content available is to externally link to it. While GoodRx does get around 10 million visits to its site per month, not many people actually know about GoodRx; if you read the news articles I linked about insulin, you might've already realized that. I'm hoping you consider the benefit to WP readers in the US from linking to a website that offers significant cost savings on prescription drugs to outweigh the cost of a slightly less visually appealing drugbox as a result of 1 new infobox field. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 02:55, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- We currently have 7 Clinical data fields (the 2 ATC parameters below count as 1 field) that link to an external source and list only the drug name, a code, or the name of the corresponding website with a hyperlink on the right-hand side. While the websites that are linked serve different purposes, these links are all displayed the same way as the field that I've proposed adding for GoodRx. With exception for the ATC code and DailyMed ID (which uses the National Drug Code for a drug as the input), none of these fields are coded.
All of the fields in this section and all of the corresponding websites supplied as an external link in this section should be human readable; with exception for the ATC code link to the WHO page, all of those websites are human readable. As for the GoodRx website, that's obviously human readable; it wouldn't be a price comparison website if it weren't. As mentioned below, it also provides clinical data in the "Drug Info" tab (example).
Given the utility that the clinical data external links provides the drugbox (in terms of clinically-relevant information about the drug as opposed to about the compound), none of these should be moved out of the drugbox. I imagine a significant fraction of readers of a drug article would be interested in the website content from one or more of these links since they all contain clinically-relevant drug information. - We also have 12 Identifiers fields that link to an external source and generally display a hyperlinked website-specific identifier for the corresponding webpage on the right-hand side. While these fields all just link to another website like the clinical data links do, the type of content they contain is entirely different from the content the clinical data websites contain (even the ATC code WHO link includes dosing info). Besides price information, GoodRx also contains clinical data on dosage forms, strengths, and brand vs generic formulation for an active ingredient as well as other clinical data in the "Drug Info" tab (example) on common side effects, indications, interactions and precautions, etc.; hence, the proposed GoodRx field is also entirely different from the identifier links. All of these fields are coded.
While I personally find some of these database links useful and handy to have in the drugbox for my own use, I recognize that the content is probably only useful/relevant to <1% of the readers of a drug article. Given the wide range in types of external links included here and the general lack of utility to the average reader, I agree that moving this out of the drugbox and into an article footer template for external links might be a good idea. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 02:55, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- We currently have 7 Clinical data fields (the 2 ATC parameters below count as 1 field) that link to an external source and list only the drug name, a code, or the name of the corresponding website with a hyperlink on the right-hand side. While the websites that are linked serve different purposes, these links are all displayed the same way as the field that I've proposed adding for GoodRx. With exception for the ATC code and DailyMed ID (which uses the National Drug Code for a drug as the input), none of these fields are coded.
Clinical data and identifiers parameters
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<!-- Clinical data --> | Drugs.com = | MedlinePlus = | licence_CA = <!-- Health Canada may use generic or brand name (generic name preferred) --> | licence_EU = <!-- EMA uses INN (or special INN_EMA) --> | DailyMedID = <!-- DailyMed may use generic or brand name (generic name preferred) --> | licence_US = <!-- FDA may use generic or brand name (generic name preferred) --> | ATC_prefix = <!-- 'none' if uncategorised --> | ATC_suffix = <!--Identifiers--> | CAS_number = | PubChem = | PubChemSubstance = | IUPHAR_ligand = | DrugBank = | ChemSpiderID = | UNII = | KEGG = | ChEBI = | ChEMBL = | NIAID_ChemDB = | PDB_ligand = |
- @Seppi333: I have failed to make myself understood. I am not contesting the quality of the information or its inclusion. I only object to its placement at the top of the article rather than at the bottom. None of the above information is of any use to an end consumer. I advocate that everything in an infobox, with the exception of 1 external link to an official website if applicable, should be to inform a human immediately upon reading without any additional clicks. I oppose placement in the top primary infobox and will support placement anywhere outside of and below the primary infobox at the top. I am already in agreement with your argument for the value of this content.
- If you fear the bureaucratic process of moving these links out from the top to elsewhere, then I would support you including GoodRx or anything else at the top now as a temporary measure, so long as you agree and assert that all this content is inappropriately placed, problematic, and needs to be moved as soon as possible.
- If you have other ideas I am ready to find a way to support your idea to share access to this information, which is a good idea. Blue Rasberry (talk) 05:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- (part of the talk here ended up in section #Prototype below)
- (ec) Re Seppi: Good, except for the link to EL-box in the infobox. OF course, every EL related to the infobox and v.v.: that connection is the article title. (But maybe temporally useful because of the change).
- To improve the process & thinking: I oppose adding GoodRx to the infobox. (Doesn't this split need a separate thread?). -DePiep (talk) 20:53, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- I am adamantly opposed to splitting the drugbox without adding that wikilink. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 22:58, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- That's the point: add this new external link in in the el section, not in the infobox. Are you suggesting we must add it to the infobox before ou would consider moving links down the article? Sounds like you are bartering with non-existant goods. What leverage does this threat have? -DePiep (talk) 16:35, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- Not before. That would be odd. Ignoring the consensus issue, who else would be coding a bot script to do this if it weren’t me? This isn’t a simple edit to the drugbox we’re talking about. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 03:13, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Edit: if you meant the GoodRx link instead of the EL box wikilink, then yes, I did mean before. I intend to write the import script before I write the one to split the drugbox. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 03:26, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- That's the point: add this new external link in in the el section, not in the infobox. Are you suggesting we must add it to the infobox before ou would consider moving links down the article? Sounds like you are bartering with non-existant goods. What leverage does this threat have? -DePiep (talk) 16:35, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- I am adamantly opposed to splitting the drugbox without adding that wikilink. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 22:58, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- (part of the talk here ended up in section #Prototype below)
oppose. I'd agree if the price was listed, with GoodRx as the reference but not with a straight up link. While I agree this is in the public good for US citizens (as already pointed out) I see a lot of dangers. (1) I can't find precedent for including a for-profit link in the infobox (I equate this (from a philosophical point of view) to having the IMDB or Rotten Tomato link in the infobox of a movie), but I think much of the general community would oppose. (2) Their profit model could change, without disclosure, and we could be giving bad and unverifiable information. (3) Their methods seem to be bit of a black box; we can't independently verify accuracy or that they're unbiased (4) There may be bias in the way information is presented (e.g. the referral fees or advertising that is not well marked as such) (5) very specific to the US. Overall; I like the idea as a public service but oppose it because it's easily corruptible by the company and it gives them a significant, and unfair advantage over anyone else that may be providing the same or similar services. Ian Furst (talk) 19:06, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Ian Furst: Every DrugBank link in a drugbox, as of right now, is a for profit link. If you go to any drugbank page (e.g., https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00295 https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00910), you'll see an ad in the top-right of the loaded page that says things like: "High-quality data is the first step for training Machine-Learning and Artificial Intelligence models." and "Learn more about how you can use our data to enhance your EMR System!" Click that link and you'll immediately be taken to https://www.drugbankplus.com. I got excited by the idea that I'd be able to use a drugbank API when I saw the AI banner, but I'm not paying for that. . Not only that, but adverse effects, contraindications, and black box warnings are all behind a paywall as well (just load a page and search the term "ADDITIONAL DATA AVAILABLE"). At least GoodRx doesn't let down their users with a paywall for their services. EDIT: as of right now, your points about (2) and (3) apply to GoodRx and Drugbank equally, but (4) applies even moreso to Drugbank since it makes no attempt whatsoever to explain its business model. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 13:56, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
- support per Blue Rasberry rationale--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:32, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Prototype for Template:External links list Drug
- @Bluerasberry: I'd be fine with moving all the fields in the drugbox that list an external link – including DailyMedID, Drugs.com, MedlinePlus, licence_CA/EU/US, ATC code, GoodRx, every identifier except the IUPAC name, and the 3D model image – into a new EL template for drug articles and then using a bot to remove all those parameters from the drugbox while simultaneously placing that new template in the "External links" section of every drug article. One further condition is that we'd need to include a link to the external links section (e.g., something like
[[#External links|External data]]
or[[#External data|External data]]
provided that I add{{Anchor|External data}}
to the heading of the new template) at the bottom of the Drugbox for two reasons. The first is that I imagine a lot of readers will have no clue what happened to every drugbox on Wikipedia if we suddenly cut them in half without providing some kind of indication of what we did with the other half of the drugbox data (it's not like they're going to know we've moved it to an EL section and I doubt most of them will scroll all the way to the bottom of the article to try to find what we did with it). The second is that all of those links are still very much pertitent to the Drugbox even after being split out, so there should be a means of navigating to them quickly within the Drugbox (this is analogous to the "Supplementary data page" link in the chembox). - Using the authority control template for displaying that content is a bad idea IMO. Too much garbage gets lumped into it and I've deleted it from several drug articles for that reason. Also, when there's a lot of data mapped into that template, it looks like Template:Authority control#Examples; those "examples" are almost unreadable.
- Anyway, if you're alright with the approach I've described above, it should be proposed at WT:PHARM for further input. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 18:39, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: does that approach sound fine to you? If so, are you fine with adding the GoodRx field to the Drugbox for now? Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 18:51, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- We need to add the actual number. I am working to do that but it will take a few months. The license I think is good in the infobox at the top rather than the bottom. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:44, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: As I mentioned above, adding price data from GoodRx isn't useful IMO. If you want to do that with another data source, that sounds fine; however, this proposal pertains to adding an EL to the drugbox (and subsequently, the external data box) for the reasons I've explained above. I'd appreciate it if you commented on that. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 04:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- So I support adding price data and the link as a reference. I do not support just adding it as an EL to the infobox. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:21, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: I'm about to ask GoodRx to give me access to their database or send me a dataset containing the relevant data I need. Will see if it's possible to obtain that as well. As for price, is it the current lowest GoodRx Coupon price you're interested in using? Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 10:52, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- I just realized that since some brands contain multiple dosage forms (e.g., insulin lispro - vial/kwikpen/carton, as described above), it'll be a tough ask to give me as much data as I'm looking for if they send me a dataset. If I can get access to their database, I can get the data you're looking for, but if not, an external link will have to suffice. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 11:27, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: I'm about to ask GoodRx to give me access to their database or send me a dataset containing the relevant data I need. Will see if it's possible to obtain that as well. As for price, is it the current lowest GoodRx Coupon price you're interested in using? Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 10:52, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- So I support adding price data and the link as a reference. I do not support just adding it as an EL to the infobox. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:21, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Edit:I could potentially update this once every 1-3 months and list the lowest price associated with each brand name in the Dbox/EL section if that would be more amenable to you. I'd need to see if they'd be alright with providing me with price data on a regular basis though. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 04:54, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: As I mentioned above, adding price data from GoodRx isn't useful IMO. If you want to do that with another data source, that sounds fine; however, this proposal pertains to adding an EL to the drugbox (and subsequently, the external data box) for the reasons I've explained above. I'd appreciate it if you commented on that. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 04:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- We need to add the actual number. I am working to do that but it will take a few months. The license I think is good in the infobox at the top rather than the bottom. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:44, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Seppi333: Yes I support adding to the Drugbox now as a pilot and short term solution to delivering information in the context of a need for a later reform. If you could somehow do a prototype of what it would look like to move some information to the bottom in a sample article then I would appreciate that, but do not consider this as an obligation if this is a distraction and it is not urgent. It is enough for me just that you explained your thoughts. I agree with you just adding the box for this to get sorted in a broader way with the pharmacy board and others later. Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Bluerasberry: See right. I don't see any reason to change the way it's presented. I will, however, fix the default width to 300px to match the size of an infobox which is compliant with MOS:IMGSIZE. Template:Drugbox external links is the name I'd use for the new template, if implemented. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 22:58, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- That external links box is awesome and exactly the kind of thing which I want elsewhere in the article and not at the top. Thanks for prototyping it as an demo for discussion. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:16, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- I've notified WP:PHARM editors by creating a thread about GoodRx and splitting the drugbox links out into the EL section at WT:PHARM#Template talk:Drugbox#GoodRx. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 05:11, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Suggestion: GoodRx should not be under "Clinical data". Add new header "Marketing info", "Consumer info"?. -DePiep (talk) 06:01, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- I'd be fine with "Clinical data" or "Consumer info". As I explained above, there is ample clinical data on GoodRx for every drug in its database; one simply needs to click the "Drug Info" or "Side Effects" tabs on the corresponding webpage. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 06:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Name should be "Consumer price (US)" to clarify. Rather than "Consumer price data" Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:22, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- I'd be fine with "Clinical data" or "Consumer info". As I explained above, there is ample clinical data on GoodRx for every drug in its database; one simply needs to click the "Drug Info" or "Side Effects" tabs on the corresponding webpage. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 06:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- That external links box is awesome and exactly the kind of thing which I want elsewhere in the article and not at the top. Thanks for prototyping it as an demo for discussion. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:16, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Bluerasberry: See right. I don't see any reason to change the way it's presented. I will, however, fix the default width to 300px to match the size of an infobox which is compliant with MOS:IMGSIZE. Template:Drugbox external links is the name I'd use for the new template, if implemented. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 22:58, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Doc James: does that approach sound fine to you? If so, are you fine with adding the GoodRx field to the Drugbox for now? Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 18:51, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Bluerasberry: I'd be fine with moving all the fields in the drugbox that list an external link – including DailyMedID, Drugs.com, MedlinePlus, licence_CA/EU/US, ATC code, GoodRx, every identifier except the IUPAC name, and the 3D model image – into a new EL template for drug articles and then using a bot to remove all those parameters from the drugbox while simultaneously placing that new template in the "External links" section of every drug article. One further condition is that we'd need to include a link to the external links section (e.g., something like
- In the end result, we should not use meta {{Infobox}}. Also, better not reuse the infobox styling (bg colors). -DePiep (talk) 06:04, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
In the end result, we should not use meta {{Infobox}}.
And why is that, exactly? I made it clear earlier that I still consider all of these external links to be part of the drugbox even after splitting them out, hence the use of an infobox with an identical appearance; we're simply moving them to the EL section since it's just as appropriate to place them there as it is in Drugbox template itself. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 06:37, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Per MOS:INFOBOX. For example, the infobox is a summary of the article, is placed in top, is treated differently (by html, on mobile, etc). Better be guided by Wikipedia:External links. -DePiep (talk) 06:47, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Formatting should be fit for the EL section: For example, the EL's better be a bulleted list (which can also have subheaders like unbold & unindented). IMO, it could be a multi-column list to be organised as refs list is organised; leave it to the browser etc. (not hardcoded by the template). -DePiep (talk) 06:51, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- If an article already has a list of external links, I'd prefer not to bloat it even more by adding this content on the left-side of the page. E.g., Amphetamine#External links. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 07:00, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Formatting should be fit for the EL section: For example, the EL's better be a bulleted list (which can also have subheaders like unbold & unindented). IMO, it could be a multi-column list to be organised as refs list is organised; leave it to the browser etc. (not hardcoded by the template). -DePiep (talk) 06:51, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Per MOS:INFOBOX. For example, the infobox is a summary of the article, is placed in top, is treated differently (by html, on mobile, etc). Better be guided by Wikipedia:External links. -DePiep (talk) 06:47, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Name suggestion: pls skip the oldfashioned informal 'drugbox' wording. Maybe: External links list Drugs. (we want to reuse the principle!) -DePiep (talk) 06:52, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Moved to {{External links list Drug}}. Changed section title + add anchor. Preferred: systematical name, while more descriptive and less informal. Prevent confusion with existing {{External links}}. If this plan works out well, we could reuse the concept for other templates (like {{Chembox}}). -DePiep (talk) 09:18, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- Just because a template uses
{{Infobox}}
to style its contents does not make it an infobox. E.g.,{{Glossary infobox}}
is a back-end template for{{Addiction glossary}}
and{{Transcription factor glossary}}
, yet neither of those should be used in place of an actual infobox for an article. Edit: that back-end template was created following this discussion: Template_talk:Addiction_glossary#"Glossary skeleton" template. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 06:54, 16 August 2019 (UTC)- That's right by itself. But it is an infobox when stating
class=infobox
(as {{Infobox}} does}}).class
defines loads of behaviour, layout, formatting, presentation (responsive even). Our intentions do not count in a browser. We do not want those effects, that would be bad coding and bad information handling. -DePiep (talk) 09:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- That's right by itself. But it is an infobox when stating
- I've created Template:External links list Drug and modified the width of the template to match the width of the drugbox when it includes a 300px-wide image (the maximum size and typically the default per MOS:IMGSIZE). The template at the top of this section now uses
{{Drugbox external links}}
instead of{{Infobox drug/sandbox2}}
to generate the example. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 06:54, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- support to do for drug box the same what was done for diseases (putting links out of the infobox) EncycloABC (talk) 15:24, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
Template coding
Template:Drugbox external links
- So far, the prototype uses {{Infobox}} to get it going. That's fine of course. However, since the new list is not an MOS:INFOBOX, I strongly propose to prevent any Infobox suggestion (by formatting,
class=infobox
, responsive behaviour). I therefor created:
- 1. Module:External links list as a full code copy of Module:Infobox, and
- 2. {{External links list}} to employ that module.
- After this, I removed from the new module all straight "infobox" referencing. Other functions etc. were kept.
- With this, current (Seppi333's) prototype looks like {{External links list Drug/sandbox}}.
- I propose:
- a. Accept the change principle, away from {{Infobox}},
- b. Improve (edit) the new module to tailor it for this list.
- It allows us to refine the list to more usable settings without being tied to Infobox formattings. I think the formatting should follow WP:EL section styling.
- -DePiep (talk) 09:56, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- To research: maybe existing {{External links}} (Module:External links) could solve this new thing altogether. I have not looked into it. It reads Wikidata values; if it allows overwriting locally (as we want to do now, I assume), we could arrive at target very soon! -DePiep (talk) 10:00, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- @DePiep: As long as you match the layout/formatting and overall appearance of the example template on the right as closely as possible, I don't really care what markup is used to generate the end result. I also don't care if it's wider (to reduce the height when the LHS or RHS text takes up multiple lines) or not right-aligned, but if right-alignment is not default, having the option to set
|align=right
would be desirable. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 10:43, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- @DePiep: As long as you match the layout/formatting and overall appearance of the example template on the right as closely as possible, I don't really care what markup is used to generate the end result. I also don't care if it's wider (to reduce the height when the LHS or RHS text takes up multiple lines) or not right-aligned, but if right-alignment is not default, having the option to set
Volume of distribution is recommended to be comprised in pharmacokinetic data.
Continued: I personally feel it's necessarily as it tells us not only the volume of distribution but also if the drug crosses the brain-blood barrier at a glance. Regards. --Reciprocater (Talk) 11:55, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Template-protected edit request on 15 May 2020
The Australian entries in this template have two problems, one easily fixable, one requing specialist knowledge. Firstly, the article they link to has been renamed - it is now Standard for the Uniform Scheduling of Medicines and Poisons. Secondly, all of the section links are invalid. Mostly this is simply because of differing capitalisation (e.g. #Pharmacy Medicine vs. #Pharmacy medicine) but in some cases the terminology is different (e.g. Dangerous poison vs Dangerous drug). this may reflect a change of legal approach or it may not be significant - only a subject matter expert would know. And to make matters worse, the capitalisation of the target article's sections is inconsistent - e.g. #Schedule 7: Dangerous Drug vs. #Schedule 8: Controlled drug vs. #Schedule 9: prohibited substance. I therefore request that at least the first problem should be fixed. I don't have the knowledge to request appropriate fixes for the second problem. Colonies Chris (talk) 11:15, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Colonies Chris: I've 'paused' the request for now (effectively 'answered'), because these edits need to be specified first (we will work towards actual code changes). -DePiep (talk) 13:44, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Colonies Chris: I have prepared the changes in the /sandbox:
- Target article is Standard for the Uniform Scheduling of Medicines and Poisons, no redirect.
- All Schedules 2–10 now use an anchor to link to, like "#Schedule 3" (so is independent of further section texts like "poison").
- Added S10 (new in SUSMP)
- Used informative labeltext from article, like "S6 (Poison)".
- Please take a look at /testcases3#Legal for AU (comparing old/live vs. new/sandbox situations for S2-S10). Please report here any improvements or an OK. :-) -DePiep (talk) 14:38, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, that's a very neat solution and comprehensive updating of the article. It all looks good to me. Colonies Chris (talk) 16:13, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- Please update {{Infobox drug/legal status}} with {{Infobox drug/legal status/sandbox}}, all code (diff).
- Change: updated for new Australian (AU) law; add S10 (SUSMP).
- Tests: see /testcases3. Consensus: see discussion above.
- -DePiep (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- Jonesey95 thx. Why did you write 'Needs testing' in the es? /testcases3 was linked to, and checked etc. Also, one would expect an
|answered=yes
edit here. -DePiep (talk) 18:52, 15 May 2020 (UTC)- Sorry for the delay, everyone. I completed the edit and clicked the "Done" button here, but my computer or the WP servers glitched, and my talk page response was not saved to the database. I didn't notice until just now. I checked the results of my edits in about ten articles with different Schedule levels assigned by Australia, and the links worked well. Let me know if my edits caused any trouble. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:36, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Jonesey95: No problem re the misfortune.
- However, it appears that you did not perform the edit as requested. Instead, you altered the content before saving the new code, all in one edit (diff btwn prepared sandbox code vs. your edit in the live template). You did not discuss your changes. You did not provide a summary in the es. You did not clarify in the
|answered=yes
talkpage edit above. This is not changing to preventing bugs etc., this is content change. Meanhile, by skipping the /sandbox and /testcase check (the proposed edit had done), you also introduced a bug; this is not #Wise template editing. - By now, I notice there is a pattern in your behaviour: repeatedly you enforced undiscussed edits one-sidely, while you should know these are controversial for example because they pertain to an ongoing or recently concluded discussion. To do so, you used your WP:TPE rights. This is problematic in multiple senses; see WP:TPE throughout, and #Use and WP:TPEBOLD for starters. There is also #Criteria for revocation #1.
- I propose you (1) revert your edit, (2) perform the edit as requested, and (3) if you wish to propose changes, start a talk—but only after (1), (2). Also, I strongly suggest you refrain from such edits in the future. There is a simple guideline: when in doubt, start a talk. -DePiep (talk) 10:30, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
- I answered the (by the requester's own admission, somewhat vague) original edit request to the best of my understanding and posted here saying "Let me know if my edits caused any trouble." I addressed both the linking issues and the capitalization issues brought up by the requester. The original request did not ask for Schedule 10, so I did not add it. At the time of my edits, there had been no changes made to the sandbox or the test cases page. I see now that there are differences between the sandbox and the live module (Schedule 10, and differences in capitalization), but I see no bugs and DePiep has not provided any specific examples. All of that said, I have reverted my edits because I have learned that it is never good for me to engage with DePiep, who is under editing restrictions for repeated failure to interact in good faith and who lost template editor rights for very good reasons. Colonies Chris: please provide your feedback re capitalization and the potential addition of Schedule 10. Feel free to edit the sandbox to match your preferences (and the target article, and the sources supporting the language in the target article), then re-activate the edit request. If you are lucky, another template editor will take care of it for you. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:40, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
- I am happy with the solution proposed and coded up by DePiep. The test cases provided look fine to me. I wasn't aware anyone else was working on a solution. Colonies Chris (talk) 19:01, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
- Jonesey95 You keep evading the issue at hand: you did not perform the request, you did not discuss your edits, you used your TPE privilege to enforce your opinion. Alas, you did revert (1), but still did not perform teh original request (2). And also you think it useful to call this pushback an "attack". -DePiep (talk) 17:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
- I am happy with the solution proposed and coded up by DePiep. The test cases provided look fine to me. I wasn't aware anyone else was working on a solution. Colonies Chris (talk) 19:01, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
- I answered the (by the requester's own admission, somewhat vague) original edit request to the best of my understanding and posted here saying "Let me know if my edits caused any trouble." I addressed both the linking issues and the capitalization issues brought up by the requester. The original request did not ask for Schedule 10, so I did not add it. At the time of my edits, there had been no changes made to the sandbox or the test cases page. I see now that there are differences between the sandbox and the live module (Schedule 10, and differences in capitalization), but I see no bugs and DePiep has not provided any specific examples. All of that said, I have reverted my edits because I have learned that it is never good for me to engage with DePiep, who is under editing restrictions for repeated failure to interact in good faith and who lost template editor rights for very good reasons. Colonies Chris: please provide your feedback re capitalization and the potential addition of Schedule 10. Feel free to edit the sandbox to match your preferences (and the target article, and the sources supporting the language in the target article), then re-activate the edit request. If you are lucky, another template editor will take care of it for you. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:40, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry for the delay, everyone. I completed the edit and clicked the "Done" button here, but my computer or the WP servers glitched, and my talk page response was not saved to the database. I didn't notice until just now. I checked the results of my edits in about ten articles with different Schedule levels assigned by Australia, and the links worked well. Let me know if my edits caused any trouble. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:36, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- Jonesey95 thx. Why did you write 'Needs testing' in the es? /testcases3 was linked to, and checked etc. Also, one would expect an
- The edit was reverted (nullified) by Jonesey95 [5]; step (1). No step (2) and (3) then. No further clarification was provided, except that the editor found it necessary to accuse some people of an "attack" in their es.
- Given that the state now is 'pre-request', I have made a new, fresh, similar request per today, May 17. -DePiep (talk) 17:47, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
Template-protected edit request on 17 May 2020
- Please update {{Infobox drug/legal status}} with {{Infobox drug/legal status/sandbox}}, all code (diff).
- Change: updated for new Australian (AU) law; add S10 (SUSMP).
- Tests: see /testcases3. Consensus: see discussion above.
- Note: A previous, similar request was cancelled.
- -DePiep (talk) 10:48, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
- Done Sceptre (talk) 01:05, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Would it be possible to add additional field for the status of controlled substances in non-Western English-speaking countries?
As of right now we have fields for the legal status of drugs in Australia, Brazil, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the United States, and the United Nations conventions. Only two of these places aren't first-world countries, Brazil and the United Nations. This is in my view a problem as readers of Wikipedia come from all around the world and while it's not necessary to include every country's drug classification there are definitely some anglophone countries that should be added. India is a prime example. There are many Indians who read the English Wikipedia, in fact there are more Indian English speakers than there are people in every country listed above except Brazil and America, see List of countries by English-speaking population. Adding a legal_IN
field to the infobox would be helpful to the many Indian English speakers that read Wikipedia. Likewise for Nigeria and Pakistan, both countries that have English as an official language and have more English speakers than there are people in many other countries represented in the infobox. Chess (talk) (please use {{ping|Chess}}
on reply) 20:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
- I'd like to read by other editors what good sense is in this. Is there a natural list (out of ~200 countries)? Anglophone? Big countries? Also, I don't know if there are similar infobox examples. -DePiep (talk) 21:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC) ping @Chess: -DePiep (talk) 21:08, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
- IMO, one requirement should be to have an article about the law here, similar to List of Schedule I drugs (US), Drugs controlled by the UK Misuse of Drugs Act and Drugs controlled by the German Betäubungsmittelgesetz. I don't think something like that exists for India (yet). Aethyta (talk) 00:41, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Infobox updates proposal
I propose to update {{Infobox drug}} with these edits:
- 1. Use new {{Infobox}} parameter
|autoheaders=yes
, - 2. Adjust infobox header usage (only semantical headers used as such; otherwise use like
|below=
), - 3. Adjust
|data_page=
logic: input overrules default page.
1. When set |autoheaders=yes
in the meta-infobox {{Infobox drug}}, all empty, idle headers are suppressed (headers with no data rows do not show). This replaces the more elaborate code like:
OLD: | header50 = {{#if:{{{sources|}}}{{{targets|}}}{{{receptors|}}}{{{agonists|}}}{{{antagonists|}}}{{{precursor|}}}{{{biosynthesis|}}} |[[Physiological]] data}}
NEW: | autoheaders = yes | header50 = [[Physiological]] data
2. In two cases, |headerN=some data
was semantically misused: data "Data page" and "Verification" was shown as a sole header (and would subsequentially be hidden for having no data rows ;-) ). I have changed the code to show these data rows either as datafield or as 'below'. See /testcases11.
3.: |data_page=
allows adding a data page; otherwise an existing datapage is linked to (example: Caffeine has Caffeine (data page)). I changed the logic: when there is input, that page is linked to; otherwise the default pagename is used -- when existing. BTW, {{Infobox drug}} has * seven such data pages; none set by |data_page=
i.e., all by default name.
These changes are mainly technical/logical; no content changes should appear. We need to be extra careful though for information disappearing (without warning apparently). One can check any article by previewing that article with edit {{Infobox drug/sandbox|name=abc|...}}
Comments or ideas? -DePiep (talk) 12:30, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Not on my main comp right now, but I can definitely hit the autoheaders tomorrow if no one else gets to it first. Primefac (talk) 23:37, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- BTW, main testpage is Template:Infobox drug/testcases11. Edits are in {{Infobox drug/sandbox}}, but of course communication is through this talkpage. -DePiep (talk) 00:01, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
- checked: show/hide header50 (Physiological, Dopamine) and header70 (Pharmacokinetic, Aspirine), both (Phenethylamine) interaction wrt
|metabolism=
. Works as expected. -DePiep (talk) 17:10, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- checked: show/hide header50 (Physiological, Dopamine) and header70 (Pharmacokinetic, Aspirine), both (Phenethylamine) interaction wrt
Template-protected edit request on 5 July 2020
Please replace all live code with all sandbox code ({{Infobox drug}} ← {{Infobox drug/sandbox}}; diff).
- Change: one tracking category changed to use {{Main other}} (undo category pollution).
- Discussion: trivial edit. DePiep (talk) 08:40, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Done Primefac (talk) 17:47, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Template-protected edit requests on 2 August 2020
@Primefac, DMacks, Doc James, Seppi333, DePiep, and Sceptre: Recent editors: Greetings and felicitations. In both the Australian and the US "Pregnancy category" fields, there is a space between the category and the comment, e.g. in the Ibuprofen article, at least when it is used to add a reference. Unfortunately, I can't see where the problem is, even after checking the sub-templates. Would someone please be so kind as to fix this, or tell what other change should be made? —DocWatson42 (talk) 04:38, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- Re DocWatson42. The reason is that
|pregnancy_AU_comment=
(and so|pregnancy_US_comment=
) can be used for comment (=add space) and reference (=no space). At the moment, distinguishing between those options is not possible or implemented.
- Long term solution is to find a way to distinguish (preferred), add
|pregnancy_AU_ref=
(cumbersom for editor), or enter like|pregnancy_AU=C<ref>...</ref>
. -DePiep (talk) 09:30, 2 August 2020 (UTC)- I think we should discuss why it's coded like that. Is
|pregnancy_AU_comment=
used for anything other than as a reference? If not, then the space should be removed. If so, it might be worth looking into having a "comment" para and a "ref" para. Primefac (talk) 14:44, 2 August 2020 (UTC)- Usage list through TPU. -DePiep (talk) 15:50, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- Why? Because this redu es complexity. Also, I had in mind that we could distinguish input. This is recently became possible using {{killMarkers}}-like modules. But it should be used (developed) carefully, for which I do not have the time right now. -DePiep (talk) 16:00, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- Well, I suppose the other question is why it matters (specifically, if there's a space between the code and the comment). It's going to be a faff and a half to separate out refs from comments regardless of how we do it; is there a reason we can't just leave things as-is? Primefac (talk) 17:48, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- The reason we have this problem is that the MOS is "no space before a ref-marker" but obviously "need space to separate words or an open-paren from preceding text", and there isn't a way to pass leading whitespace in a template parameter-value. If we kept it as a unified field, how about regexp for
/^<ref/
to decide whether to render it without vs with space? - Scanning by eye Special:Search/insource:"pregnancy US comment" for uses other than referencing, maprotiline seems to use _comment to hack around some uncertainty in the value itself that should probably be done differently, and valproate has a good use. DMacks (talk) 20:46, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- For what it's worth I set up Category:Pages using infobox drug with a pregnancy comment for the pages using the pregnancy comment.
- The more I look into this, the more I wonder if the entire template subpage shouldn't be reworked - basically the only reason there's
|pregnancy_XX=
and|pregnancy_XX_comment=
is so that we can link to a country-specific section of Pregnancy category. Given that the label already does that, we're just duplicating links. I say we drop the linking for|pregnancy_XX=
, and convert|pregnancy_XX_comment=
into|pregnancy_XX_ref=
for sole use as a reference. Primefac (talk) 21:28, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- I think we should discuss why it's coded like that. Is
- re Primefac
why it matters
&tc: you lost me. What do yoo actually say or propose? -DePiep (talk) 23:24, 2 August 2020 (UTC)