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This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section (reproduced on the right) on the Main Page.
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Using a DYK suggestion string (see below examples), list new suggestions in the candidate entries section below under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged. Thanks for participating and please remember to check back for comments on your nomination.
DYK criteria
Unofficial criteria: LaPella's unwritten rules
- DYK evaluation includes:
- Length - The Article should contain at least 1,500 characters in main body text (ignoring infoboxes, categories, references, lists, and tables). This is a mandatory minimum; in practice, articles having more than 1,500 characters of prose still may be rejected as too short, at the discretion of the selecting administrators.
- Verification - The DYK hook fact in the article needs an inline cite at the end of the sentence and the article in general should use inline, cited sources.
- Date - The new article should be no more than five days old and the expanded article should be expanded at least fivefold with new text within the last five days.
- Length
- DYK qualifying characters: To count the number of characters in a piece of text, you will need to use a JavaScript extension like User:Dr pda/prosesize.js (instructions on the talk page), a free website like this, or an external software program that has a character-counting feature. For example, if you are using Microsoft Word, select the text from the article page (or, in the case of "Did you know" nominations, this Talk page) – not the edit page containing Wikitext – then copy and paste it into a blank document. Click "Tools" ("Review" in Office 2007), then "Word Count", and note the "Characters (with spaces)" figure. Other word processing programs may have a similar feature. For Mac users, Apple has a Word counter widget available for Mac OS X 10.4 or later. Note: The character counts indicated on "Revision history" pages are not accurate for DYK purposes as they include categories, infoboxes and similar text in articles, and comments and signatures in hooks on this page.
- Lists: Proposed lists need 1,500+ characters of prose text. The listed items themselves are not counted as part the the 1,500 DYK qualifying characters
- Verification
- Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:
- interesting to draw in a variety of readers,
- short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces),
- neutral,
- definite facts that are mentioned in the article, and
- always cited in the article with an inline citation.
- Please note that hooks are subject without notice to copyediting as they move to the main page. The nature of the DYK process makes it impractical to consult users over every such edit. In particular, hooks will be shortened if they are deemed too long: the 200-character limit is an outside limit not a recommended length. Also, watch the suggestions page to ensure that no issues have been raised about your hook, because if you do not respond to issues raised your hook may not be featured at all.
- Articles on living individuals must be carefully checked to ensure that no unsourced or poorly sourced negative material is included. Articles and hooks which focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided.
- Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:
- Other issues
- Pictures: Pictures accompanying the DYK hook should be:
- freely licensed suitably and freely (PD, GFDL, CC etc) licensed (NOT fair use) because the main page can only have freely licensed pictures;
- suitable, attractive, and interesting at a 100x100px-wide resolution;
- already in the article; and
- relevant to the article.
- Pictures: Pictures accompanying the DYK hook should be:
- Sounds: Sounds accompanying the DYK hook should have similar qualities to pictures, and should be formatted using
{{DYK Listen|filename.ogg|Brief description}}
- Sounds: Sounds accompanying the DYK hook should have similar qualities to pictures, and should be formatted using
Please use one of the strings below to post your DYK nomination, using the "author" and "nominator" fields to identify the users who should receive credit for their contributions if the hook is featured on the main page.
- Nom without image:
{{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= }}
- Nom with image:
{{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= | image= | caption= }}
- To include more than one new or expanded article in a single hook:
|article2=
|article3=
|article4=
| (etc) - To include more than one author:
|author2=
|author3=
| (etc) - To include alternate hooks:
|ALT1=
|ALT2=
| (etc) - To add a comment:
|comment=
- To add the article you reviewed:
|reviewed=
- To include more than one new or expanded article in a single hook:
Do not wikilink the article title, or the author username field; the template will wikilink them automatically. Do wikilink the article title in the hook field, however.
Do not add a section heading if you are using the template; the template will add one for you.
Do not include a signature (~~~~) after the template.
Do not use non-free images in your hook suggestion.
- When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
- Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
- If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name|May 23}} Thanks, ~~~~
Symbols
If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or that there is an issue with the article or hook, you may use the following symbols (optional) to point the issues out:
-
{{subst:DYKtick}}
-
{{subst:DYKtickAGF}}
-
{{subst:DYK?}}
-
{{subst:DYK?no}}
-
{{subst:DYKno}}
-
{{subst:DYK?again}}
You may notify the nominator of problems with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}}
Please consider using {{subst:DYKproblem}} on the user's talk page, in case they do not notice if there is an issue.
Next update
Backlogged?
This page often seems to be backlogged. If the DYK template has not been updated for substantially more than 6 hours, it may be useful to attract the attention of one of the administrators who regularly updates the template. See the page Wikipedia:Did you know/Admins for a list of administrators who have volunteered to help with this project.
Candidate entries
Articles created/expanded on December 3
Ulster cherry
- ... that the Ulster cherry is named after Ulster County, New York, a region where sweet cherries are commercially produced? (New article, self-nom) Ecoleetage (talk) 00:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on December 2
U-27 class submarine (Austria-Hungary)
Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Siege of Constantinople (1203), Siege of Constantinople (1204) and Siege of Constantinople (1235)
- ... that Constantinople was besieged three times in less than thirty-five years in the 13th century, namely in 1203, 1204 and 1235?
- Whose nom is this? --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Sitabuldi Fort
Template:DYKsuggestion at 15:36, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Bovista dermoxantha
Mike Trusson
Template:DYKsuggestion at 13:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- ALT: ... that after retiring as a footballer, Mike Trusson worked as marketing manager for a football-themed restaurant in London? --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Vilhelm Aubert
Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
British Bulldog revolver
Template:DYKsuggestion at 08:31, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- De-italicised. (No need.) --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Daedalea quercina
Template:DYKsuggestion at 07:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Length verified, references included. Cheers. Imperat§ r(Talk) 19:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on December 1
List of WWF Light Heavyweight Champions
- ... that at 826 days, Villano III has the longest reign as WWF Light Heavyweight Champion? (Five fold expansion, [co-nom with User:ThinkBlue])--SRX 22:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
May not be a breaker, but it's worth pointing out that the championship is not currently listed as an achievement on Villano III's page GTD 22:31, 2 December 2008 (UTC)Scrub that, it does and it doesn't... GTD 22:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)- What is a breaker is that it's not even close to a five-fold expansion. More than 10,000 for about 18 months, 14,577 now. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 22:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Havmanden class submarine (1911)
Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
List of ECW Television Champions
- ... that at 700 days, Rob Van Dam had the longest ECW Television Championship reign? (Five fold expansion [co-nom with User:IMatthew])--SRX 21:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Doris Dungey
Kafr Lam
National Hunger March, 1932
- Length confirmed, abundancy of references, interesting hook. May want a tiny bit more tweaking with the hook for it to be perfect. Cheers. Imperat§ r(Talk) 01:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I changed "National Hunger March, 1932" to "1932 National Hunger March." Other than that, I think it's fine. —Politizer talk/contribs 01:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- ALT: ... that the 1932 National Hunger March, the largest hunger march in the 1920s and 1930s, led to days of widespread violence in central London? --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Alexandru Macedonski
Note: there are other facts in the article that could make for an interesting hook: him supposedly being the first modern European to have used free verse; his enthusiasm for cycling; his bitter debates with other writers; him being generally seen as one of the two greatest Romanian poets etc etc. So feel free to rework the hook or create others, but please let me know before you do. Dahn (talk) 01:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Worcester Common Outlets
- I tweaked the wording of the end of the hook and am currently trying to improve the article a little. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Ingrid Semmingsen
Ascot-Pullin 500
Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Without all the references, the article is too short. Please expand. Cheers. Imperat§ r(Talk) 22:35, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Also, the reference for the hook fact is a dead link. And therefore, I also don't know if "ohv" should be linked to overhead valve or off highway vehicle ("ohv single" does need an explanation). Art LaPella (talk) 01:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Lakes in Bangalore
Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- I would suggest alternative "... that the lakes in Bangalore have been largely encroached by urban infrastructure resulting in existence of only 17 good lakes as against 51 healthy lakes in 1985?" Raise lkblr (talk) 06:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Both these hooks are pretty long and convoluted. How about something like:
- ALT2: ... that recent restoration efforts were said to have "breathed new life" into Ulsoor Lake, one of the largest lakes in Bangalore? —Politizer talk/contribs 06:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Urbach-Wiethe disease
Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Bovista plumbea
- The article appears to be at 2999 characters....I'll try to modify the hook, though...Cheers. Imperat§ r(Talk) 17:03, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- I believe I cleared that up now, too...want to check it again? Maybe I should change the hook to something about common names... Cheers. Imperat§ r(Talk) 18:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- (ALT1)... that Bovista plumbea, also known as the "paltry puffball", was considered as a means to attain penicillin? Cheers. Imperat§ r(Talk) 22:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Andrew McKelvey
Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
List of Presidents of India
Template:DYKsuggestion at 12:42, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Battle of Metz
Template:DYKsuggestion at 12:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Comment: The German Army link isn't too good, since it links to the modern German Army. Manxruler (talk) 07:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- What does "hostilities were formally ended" mean? End of World War II in Europe? --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
.44 Webley
- ... that Lt. Col George Custer carried a pair of .44 Webley revolvers at the Battle of the Little Bighorn? Created by Trekphiler 1 December, joint nom by Trekphiler & Commander Zulu (who contributed this factoid). TREKphiler hit me ♠ 09:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- This article currently isn't long enough for Did You Know. Please see #Instructions for details. Art LaPella (talk) 01:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Also, the article is currently marked as a stub, which is another DYK disqualifying factor. Nsk92 (talk) 02:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm prepared to del the stub tag, added as a default (given I'm unsure what qualifies as non-stub). Some correction/add is in train. TREKphiler hit me ♠ 06:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Added some, del stub tag. Also, now at .442 Webley, the more common name, I'm told. (My NeoOffice counts almost 1800 chars as it stands now.) TREKphiler hit me ♠ 07:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I still have several significant problems with this entry. First, the article is still rather short and feels very stubby. Second, there are problems with what sources are cited and whether or not they support the hook. One of the two sources cited is a geocities site[1], not an WP:RS. I am not quite sure if the other source[2] passes WP:RS. Also, the section "Custer’s Personal Weapons" in this last source makes it clear that there is in fact disagreement between various historians regarding what kind of personal weapons Custer had at the Battle of the Little Bighorn. The section discusses pros and cons of various possibilities and contains polemic arguments. It does not unambiguously and definitively support the statement as given in the hook. Nsk92 (talk) 17:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Added some, del stub tag. Also, now at .442 Webley, the more common name, I'm told. (My NeoOffice counts almost 1800 chars as it stands now.) TREKphiler hit me ♠ 07:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
<--Looking at it again, & given the number of variants the RIC was offered in, it's likely Custer's, even presuming they were RICs, weren't actually .442s anyhow. Given that, I would withdraw this one, absent confirmation. TREKphiler hit me ♠ 19:01, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Scorpion Pass Massacre
Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:26, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Bǎ construction
Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:11, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Serenity High School
Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Alternative hook, if space is an issue the day this is posted: ... that Serenity High School is the oldest public substance-abuse recovery high school in Texas? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 01:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Odontoglossum crispum
- ... that Odontoglossum crispum (pictured) is an epiphytic orchid found at altitudes above 6,000 feet (1,800 m) in clearings and at the edges of the montane forest of Colombia? -- New article by Daemonic Kangaroo (talk · contribs), hook by PFHLai (talk) 15:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- (alt.hook)... that the orchid Odontoglossum crispum (pictured), first discovered in the high Andes Mountains in 1841, was highly sought after in Victorian England, with varieties sold at more than 150 guineas at auctions? -- New article by Daemonic Kangaroo (talk · contribs), alt.hook by PFHLai (talk) 15:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Your Friend the Rat
- About 1400 to about 3000 characters isn't a five-fold expansion (if I counted right). That's three-fold. Needs more expanding. – RyanCross (talk) 06:35, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- You did count right, and even if you didn't it wouldn't matter because the [less than] three-fold expansion took place on November 12. The article hasn't even been edited at all in over 2 weeks. —Politizer talk/contribs 06:57, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
-
- I added the article now because I only recently understood the concept of DYK. I have the short and expanded the Page a lot and I think it deserves to be on the DYK because it's interesting and is very well sourced. I don't think it can be expanded 5x more, but it deserves the attention of the community. Please consider puting it on the DYK. --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 14:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, part of the purpose of DYK is to feature very new content that few readers have had a chance to see, and we can't make an exception for an article that is several weeks old. We appreciate your contributions, though, and next time you do a major expansion like this please don't hesitate to nominate it; we would love to have your contributions if you can get them to us more quickly. Happy editing, —Politizer talk/contribs 16:28, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Charles Ranken
Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 02:06, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Durham Performing Arts Center
Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 02:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
History of Bihar
Template:DYKsuggestion at 15:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Tytus Filipowicz
Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Added some links. --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 30
Westland Dreadnought
Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
**ALT1:
Barony of Ladyland
Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:22, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
**ALT1:
Shokichi Natsui
Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:22, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
**ALT1: ... that Shokichi Natsui (pictured), the first Judo World Champion, used a combined match time of only 63 seconds to defeat four opponents and qualify him for the final?
- Variation on ALT1: ... that Shokichi Natsui (pictured), the first Judo World Champion, qualified for the final after defeating four opponents in a total combined time of only 63 seconds? Yomanganitalk 10:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Lisa the Vegetarian
Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:30, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- A little bit short of 5x...before expansion was 3551, now is somewhere in the 15,000 range. It needs to be 17,500. —Politizer talk/contribs 16:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Hmm, how about "Paul McCartney's condition for guest starring in The Simpsons episode "Lisa the Vegetarian" was that Lisa, who becomes a vegetarian in the episode, remain one for the rest of the series?" -- Scorpion0422 17:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Spence Broughton
Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:30, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Tadeusz Pyka
Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:23, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Richard Haddock
Westbury Court Garden
Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
List of towns and cities in Devon by population
... that the city of Plymouth (pictured) is the largest settlement in Devon, England, with a population of 240,720 in the 2001 census? Created by myself, Jolly Janner (talk) 17:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Cyril Pullin
Anne-Lise Seip and Jens Arup Seip
Template:DYKsuggestion 18:46, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Midnight Madness (basketball)
Template:DYKsuggestion--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:44, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Clewer Mill Stream
Template:DYKsuggestion at 16:04, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Loyal B. Stearns
Steamboats of the upper Columbia and Kootenay Rivers
University of Plano
Template:DYKsuggestion Alansohn (talk) 05:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Erie Land Light
Template:DYKsuggestion at 00:47, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- ALT: ... that the tower of Erie Land Light (pictured) had to be replaced twice because it kept sinking into the ground?
Overchoice
Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:33, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Yellagonga Regional Park
Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 05:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Imero Fiorentino
Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 05:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 29
USS Timbalier (AVP-54)
Template:DYKsuggestion - Canglesea (talk) 23:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Plunketts Creek Bridge No. 3
Template:DYKsuggestion at 16:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I like this article; it says "home" to me. But the source for this fact (ref 2) doesn't seem to say anything about the bridge's destruction or listing. The article is well-written and well-referenced, so I'm sure one of those other references can verify this if you add it in the right place. —Politizer talk/contribs 17:32, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry, it is in the accompanying text - here is a direct link to the PDF. See Page 6, top paragraph, where it says the bridge was collapsed in March 1996 [3]. If this is not enough, then I can come up with an alternate hook - this just seemed most "hooky". Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- The cited Historic American Engineering Record documents (dated in the summer of 1996) clearly indicate that the bridge had been destroyed by the time the documents were created, but I don't find anything that verifies when it was actually added to the HAER. Is there something that can be cited to very the date it was added? --Orlady (talk) 20:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- The HAER was founded in 1969, so all the Library of Congress records just say the HAER record is past then.[4] For this bridge, the entire HAER documentation consists of the six photographs (which are from January 1996, after the flood - see page 2 of the PDF above) and the documentation, which is from August 1996 (as you note). I do not have a better source for its addition to HAER, but will try to find one in a local newspaper from that time. The article is a work in progress (I plan to expand it more), thanks for your edit on the significance. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 22:04, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Linking the pdf (the one you linked above) directly in the ref would probably be more useful than the current setup, which links to what seems to be a metadata page. I would suggest having the title of the source link to that pdf, and include a separate link to the metadata sheet somewhere at the end of the ref. —Politizer talk/contribs 22:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Irish immigration to Puerto Rico
- ... that the Royal Decree of Graces of 1815 and the Irish Potato Famine of the 1840s contributed to the vast Irish immigration to Puerto Rico.?
- Note - I rewrote and and expanded this article to the extent that it is practically a "new" article. Self-nom: Tony the Marine (talk) 15:46, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- "Unwritten" Rule A3. Art LaPella (talk) 01:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Even though I consider this unfair (after all the work I put into it), I do understand that it requires a lot of work to verify the lengths of expanded articles, therefore I have taken the liberty to make such a task easier by providing the following information: Old Version(Pre-Nov. 29th = 9,350 bytes; New Version = 19,494 bytes. Please reconsider. Tony the Marine (talk) 02:19, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I consider my job to be counting characters and such, rather than ruling on gray areas, so I wouldn't object to being overruled. However, in my experience, they don't approve articles that are expanded about twofold, rather than fivefold as specified in the #Instructions. As the main page puts it: "Did you know... From Wikipedia's newest articles", not from the most expanded articles. By the way, we count "prose only", so the old version is 4,563 and the current version is about 12,000. (2.6-fold expansion). Art LaPella (talk) 02:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Art is correct. The current version is 12,000 characters, not 19,000. Even if it were 19,000, your own information (in your message above) only claims a 2x expansion from 9,000 to 19,000, so even by your counting the expansion is not significant. While we appreciate the hard work you've put into the article, you're more likely to get recognition for it at the Good Article project than you are here. —Politizer talk/contribs 17:35, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Even though I do not agree with the specific "unwritten" rule which was applied to this case, I will accept the decision taken and abide by the rules. Thank you to those who participated, no hard feelings.
Tony the Marine (talk) 19:25, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Irving P. Krick
Template:DYKsuggestion - Sorry, cannot bypass the 5x expansion hardcoded into template. Anyway, all the edits are within a little over 24 hours. NVO (talk) 20:32, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- Why not craft a hook about the work that Krick himself did (for example, forecasting weather for both D-Day and the filming of Gone with the Wind), rather than putting it all on the Caltech Meteorology department? --Orlady (talk) 21:41, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Romantic Pieces (Dvořák)
- ... that Antonín Dvořák premiered the piano part of his composition Romantic Pieces on 30 March 1887, at the chamber concert at the Umělecká beseda in Prague? -- self-nom by --Vejvančický (talk) 20:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- ALT ... that Antonín Dvořák arranged his Romantic Pieces from a trio he originally wrote to play with his neighbors? -- more interesting hook by Hrdinský. (Thank you) --Vejvančický (talk) 21:46, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Edward Vaux, 4th Baron Vaux of Harrowden
Template:DYKsuggestion - PKM (talk) 19:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
List of Cleveland Cavaliers head coaches
- ... that Bill Musselman and Gene Littles each have a record of 4 wins and 11 losses while coaching the Cleveland Cavaliers? new article, nominators are User:SRE.K.A.L.24 and User:Chrishomingtang. -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24[c] 05:44, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- My word processor counted 1517 characters in the prose part of the article, so I guess it qualifies on length. Date also is OK. It looks to me like the two named "nominators" both would deserve to be credited as "creators." I did not check the source(s) for the hook fact. --Orlady (talk) 06:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- Pls note that Bill Musselman had a different record in the 1980–81 NBA season. --74.14.20.24 (talk) 16:30, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Try a hook about the abysmal record of Chuck Daly, who is now a Hall of Fame coach. :) --74.14.20.24 (talk) 16:33, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
ALT: ... that Don Delaney, Keith Smart, and Mike Brown have spent their entire National Basketball Association coaching careers with the Cavaliers? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c] 19:45, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- That last alt hook sounded interesting until I found out that their NBA coaching careers were not particularly long. --Orlady (talk) 21:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Most of these nominations related to the NBA are like that. Laugh out loud. -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24[c] 01:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)- How do you define "their entire National Basketball Association coaching careers"? If you count time as an assistant coach, the ALT hook above is not true. --74.14.18.48 (talk) 05:32, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Most of these nominations related to the NBA are like that. Laugh out loud. -- SRE.K.A
- ALT3: ... that Don Delaney, Keith Smart, and Mike Brown have spent their entire National Basketball Association head coaching careers with the Cavaliers?
- That last alt hook sounded interesting until I found out that their NBA coaching careers were not particularly long. --Orlady (talk) 21:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- ALT2:... that Chuck Daly (pictured), currently in the Basketball Hall of Fame as a coach, had a record of 9 wins and 32 losses before he was fired as the head coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers early in his NBA career? --74.14.18.48 (talk) 05:28, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I like Alt hook #2 best personally. The article's over 1500 characters, but barely. It's a lil iffy to me, any chance of expansion? I can try expanding it a bit myself if need be, Wizardman 05:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- The hook is not cited. -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24[c] 06:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- The hook is not cited. -- SRE.K.A
- I like Alt hook #2 best personally. The article's over 1500 characters, but barely. It's a lil iffy to me, any chance of expansion? I can try expanding it a bit myself if need be, Wizardman 05:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, it is. --74.14.18.48 (talk) 22:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, it is not in the article.By the way, sorry for my late comment since I am quite busy. —Chris! ct 22:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)- OK, I see it, but it shouldn't be in the table.—Chris! ct 22:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- IP address, if you can find a reference of him being fired instead of resigning, then may you please send it to me via my talk page? Thanks. -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24[c] 22:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)- Ref 19 seems to have that. —Politizer talk/contribs 22:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Didn't see that. -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24[c] 22:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)- Oops, the stuff has been moved. They were refs #19 and #17 in this revision. Now they're somewhere in the image caption. —Politizer talk/contribs 22:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Didn't see that. -- SRE.K.A
- Ref 19 seems to have that. —Politizer talk/contribs 22:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- IP address, if you can find a reference of him being fired instead of resigning, then may you please send it to me via my talk page? Thanks. -- SRE.K.A
- OK, I see it, but it shouldn't be in the table.—Chris! ct 22:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, it is. --74.14.18.48 (talk) 22:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Ooh, I want in on all this fun. ALT4: ... that although Chuck Daly is a Basketball Hall of Famer now, when he served as head coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers he had a 9–32 record and was fired mid-season? —Politizer talk/contribs 22:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- ALT2, 3, or 4 is fine. As long as I get credit for nominating. :D -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24[c] 22:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- ALT2, 3, or 4 is fine. As long as I get credit for nominating. :D -- SRE.K.A
National Waterways Museum, Ellesmere Port
- ... that the National Waterways Museum, Ellesmere Port, in Cheshire, England, (pictured) contains the largest collection of canal boats in the world? New article, self-nom by Peter I. Vardy (talk) 22:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Edward William Pritchard
Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:57, 29 November 2008 (CET)
- ALT (to avoid implying someone else was publicly executed in Glasgow after 1865 for a different crime)... that in 1865, Dr Edward William Pritchard, having poisoned his wife and mother-in-law, became the last person to be publicly executed in Glasgow? --74.14.18.55 (talk) 22:32, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Bob Blake (ice hockey)
Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:58, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
midnight regulations
Template:DYKsuggestion at 07:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- No mention of "dozens" in the the article (thousand of pages and three examples are mentioned), plus the use of the present tense suggests news rather than an encyclopaedia article; unless the actions are in the past there is an unverifiable, fortune-telling element to the hook. Yomanganitalk 01:08, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Karen Vogtmann
Template:DYKsuggestion Nsk92 (talk) 02:05, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- ALT hook: ... that a mathematician Karen Vogtmann co-authored a paper which produced a method for quantifying the difference and computing the distance between two phylogenetic trees? —- Nsk92 (talk) 14:15, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- The first hook is more straightforward, while the second is probably more interesting and maybe slightly WP:ORish. Not sure which is better.... Nsk92 (talk) 14:15, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- As you've said, the second has more oomph to it, but as far as I can tell there are no refs in the article stating what impact that paper had; the only ref is to the paper itself. If you can add refs demonstrating the impact of that paper and explaining the paper in their own terms (so that you don't have to explain and interpret the paper yourself) I think the second hook will be fine. —Politizer talk/contribs 17:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, there is secondary source reference, ref no 29 in the article that is cited twice in the paragraph dealing with this paper. E.g. it occurs at the end of the last sentence:"A free software package implementing these algorithms has been developed and is actively used by biologists". Ref 29[5] is an article in Science News by a reporter,Julie Rehmeyer, so it is a secondary source. It contains the following passage:"The researchers have used their new methods to develop a freely available statistical software package that augments a statistics program called R. The software was first released two years ago. "Biologists are using it quite a lot," Holmes says." The Science News article also discusses the impact and significance of the paper. Moreover, the entire paragraph in the Karen Vogtmann article that deals with the paper is in fact largely based on this discussion in the Science News article and the sentence "The paper of Billera, Vogtmann and Holmes produced a method for quantifying the difference between two evolutionary trees, effectively determining the distance between them" (which also is footnoted to ref 29) is a close version of a passage from the Science News article:"Susan Holmes, a statistician at Stanford University, and mathematicians Louis Billera and Karen Vogtmann of Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y., have found a way to quantify the difference between two trees, effectively determining the distance between them." Nsk92 (talk) 18:16, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- As you've said, the second has more oomph to it, but as far as I can tell there are no refs in the article stating what impact that paper had; the only ref is to the paper itself. If you can add refs demonstrating the impact of that paper and explaining the paper in their own terms (so that you don't have to explain and interpret the paper yourself) I think the second hook will be fine. —Politizer talk/contribs 17:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Quantum pseudo-telepathy
Camp of Great Poland
Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
MGP Nordic 2008
Template:DYKsuggestion at 11:05, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
James Godkin
Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 03:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Adam Stanisław Grabowski
Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:25, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Maria Albin Boniecki
Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:32, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 28
The Bronze Horseman (poem)
Template:DYKsuggestion -Oreo Priest talk 19:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- Expansion is not 5x (was 2200, is now 9500; 11,000 needed). —Politizer talk/contribs 05:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Seriously? That's like 4 1/2 times instead of 5. -Oreo Priest talk 07:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- And on top of that, I count 14000 characters. Seems like a valid expansion to me. -Oreo Priest talk 07:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Seriously. 5x is the rule, and if we pass your hook with 4 1/2 then the next guy will want us to pass his at 4, etc. etc. 5x expansion is the rule, just like 1500-character minimum is the rule. Plus, in this article, the difference between 4.5x and 5x is about 1500 characters, which is far from trivial. And as for your 14,000 characters, you are counting the entire character count (including references and markup); only the "readable prose" (content within <p></p> tags) counts towards DYK, and counting that sort of text the article is only 9489. For more on the 5x expansion and how we count characters, see User:Art LaPella/Unwritten rules#Unwritten article length rules and #Instructions. —Politizer talk/contribs 07:48, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- No, that won't happen, because a slight exception to the guidelines once doesn't mean that a large one has to be allowed later. I remember some sort of thing explicitly saying that if an expansion was very nearly fivefold, it would be let pass, but it would have to be quite close. I can't find it in the talk page history though. Ultimately, it's the updater's call.-Oreo Priest talk 16:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- But like I said, I don't consider 1500 characters short to be "nearly" fivefold. —Politizer talk/contribs 16:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- 10% off is nearly fivefold. If you don't like percentages, you might consider 7500 characters to be a "significant" expansion. -Oreo Priest talk 21:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Arguing about numbers is not going to get this anywhere. I think the expansion is not enough and you think it is, we both know that, and nothing either of us says is going to change that. If you think I'm being unfair, you can ask some other reviewer to give a second opinion, because no numbers you bring up here are going to change my mind. —Politizer talk/contribs 22:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- 10% off is nearly fivefold. If you don't like percentages, you might consider 7500 characters to be a "significant" expansion. -Oreo Priest talk 21:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- But like I said, I don't consider 1500 characters short to be "nearly" fivefold. —Politizer talk/contribs 16:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- No, that won't happen, because a slight exception to the guidelines once doesn't mean that a large one has to be allowed later. I remember some sort of thing explicitly saying that if an expansion was very nearly fivefold, it would be let pass, but it would have to be quite close. I can't find it in the talk page history though. Ultimately, it's the updater's call.-Oreo Priest talk 16:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Seriously. 5x is the rule, and if we pass your hook with 4 1/2 then the next guy will want us to pass his at 4, etc. etc. 5x expansion is the rule, just like 1500-character minimum is the rule. Plus, in this article, the difference between 4.5x and 5x is about 1500 characters, which is far from trivial. And as for your 14,000 characters, you are counting the entire character count (including references and markup); only the "readable prose" (content within <p></p> tags) counts towards DYK, and counting that sort of text the article is only 9489. For more on the 5x expansion and how we count characters, see User:Art LaPella/Unwritten rules#Unwritten article length rules and #Instructions. —Politizer talk/contribs 07:48, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Expansion is not 5x (was 2200, is now 9500; 11,000 needed). —Politizer talk/contribs 05:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Forage fish
Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
The sources for the hook fact are not particularly reliable (e.g., spacedaily.com). Also, more significantly, some chunks of the article seem to have been copypasted from cited sources, including spacedaily.com and treehugger.com. That's a serious issue, with or without DYK.--Orlady (talk) 05:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oops. The copy violation was very remiss of me, and has been reworded. The sources have been changed—the source document has only just become available online. --Geronimo20 (talk) 07:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Normally when there's been one instance of copyvio in the article then I consider the entire article suspect until someone has gone through and checked every sentence (which is probably never gonna happen for a long article like this). But given that Geronimo20 is a well-established editor, I think we can take it on good faith if he/she can assure us that there is no more copy/pasted content anywhere in the article. —Politizer talk/contribs 06:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, ashes and atonement time. This has been a horribly tedious punishment, but I have gone though this article line by line, sentence by sentence, almost phrase by phrase, and I can now categorically assert that there are no copy violations in this article, and in addition that not one single unquoted sentence in this article, no matter how short, exists anywhere else in the entire web, and further, that the first half of every longer sentence is a start to a sentence that no one, ever, has written before (at least as far as the web is concerned). --Geronimo20 (talk) 13:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Just to add to your woes the hook could do with some work: forage fish as defined by the article feed more than just the "world's great marine predators". Which are the "great" marine predators, anyway? "now being removed...on an industrial scale". When's "now" start? The fishing industry has been around for a long time. "being fed to farmed fish, pigs, and poultry" and to many other species too, including humans. I'd pick another fact to build the hook around. Yomanganitalk 14:09, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Length, history, references verified. I don't really have a problem with the hook, although if anyone wants to suggest an ALT I'll review it. Thanks for checking the whole article so diligently; I didn't mean that you had to check it all, I just meant that I would take your word for it, but all the checking you've done can only have helped the article even more, so good work! —Politizer talk/contribs 15:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Saxon Brother War
Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- Length and history verified; offline ref accepted IGF. Daniel Case (talk) 16:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Stephen Gardner Champlin
Template:DYKsuggestion AdjustShift (talk) 07:35, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- And no other lawyer served in the Union Army? It was scarcely unusual then for soldiers to have had civilian jobs. Daniel Case (talk) 16:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Wessagusset Colony
Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- (alt) ... that Wessagusset, the second colony in Massachusetts, was abandoned after less than a year? same info ... but shorter Victuallers (talk) 16:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- (alt) Or go a completely different direction: ... that Wessagusset Colony was the site of Miles Standish's real-life attack against Indians as depicted in Longfellow's poem The Courtship of Miles Standish?
- Length and history verified; offline refs for both hooks accepted IGF. Hmm ... did a recent US holiday inspire the creation of this article? Daniel Case (talk) 16:04, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
William Vaux, 3rd Baron Vaux of Harrowden
, DYK articles are not allowed to be listed as Stub Articles Duke R. Oliver I His Duchy 21:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
- Oops, that was a bad copy-and-paste on my part of the WP:BIO template from another article. Stub classification removed. : And I forgot to put (pictured) in the hook, which makes it too long, so...
- ALT: ... that William Vaux, 3rd Baron Vaux of Harrowden (pictured) was an English recusant committed to the Fleet prison and fined £1,000 by the Privy Council for harbouring the Jesuit Edmund Campion?
- ALT #2: ... that William Vaux, 3rd Baron Vaux (pictured) was an English recusant committed to the Fleet prison and fined £1,000 by Queen Elizabeth I's Privy Council for harbouring the Jesuit Edmund Campion? - PKM (talk) 04:07, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- ALT3: ... that William Vaux, 3rd Baron Vaux (pictured) was imprisoned and fined £1,000 by Queen Elizabeth for harbouring the Jesuit Edmund Campion? it doesnt have to have every fact in the hook Victuallers (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- :-) - PKM (talk) 03:46, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- Notice: the article contains PD text copied from two sources (according to the References section). While there's no official DYK criterion against that, I personally have a standing order not to verify articles that contain copied PD text. I won't reject the article for that, but I just wanted to point it out to whoever ends up reviewing it. —Politizer talk/contribs 17:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- :-) - PKM (talk) 03:46, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Hurricane Holly (1969)
Template:DYKsuggestion I made this article in January and now I have de merged it and it had more that 13x of the bytes of the original article.--Irmela08 16:25, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
- Dull hook. Daniel Case (talk) 16:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- How 'bout "... that Hurricane Holly of 1969was the first of only two times the name was used before being eliminated, even though it was never formally retired?" Circeus (talk) 21:42, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Better hook, but it's unsourced. Daniel Case (talk) 15:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- How 'bout "... that Hurricane Holly of 1969was the first of only two times the name was used before being eliminated, even though it was never formally retired?" Circeus (talk) 21:42, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 27
Flyable Heart
Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Length verified. The article uses a lot of self-published sources, but all in the plot & characters section, so I'm willing to overlook it. But, the critical reference (ref 3, which is the reference for the hook fact and is also the only third-party ref in the entire article) is awkward; it doesn't provide an article title or anything like that. I would like to see that clarified before I take further action on this. —Politizer talk/contribs 08:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Well, that's actually a preview in a magazine, so if there's gonna be any titles it would be the game's title (I guess I'll go ahead and add that in there), but otherwise I wouldn't know what to put there (looking at some western video game magazines, there doesn't appear to be titles for previews too). -- クラウド668 08:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I've changed them to use the {{citation}} template instead and added Flyable Heart review in as the title, hopefully that will work. Thanks for pointing it out. -- クラウド668 08:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- It looks better now; I mainly wanted titles in there because without titles it looked as if the source was the Wikipedia article for Dengeki magazine.
- Although I said earlier that I didn't mind the SPS, I am thinking now that I am a bit concerned about the preponderance of those kinds of sources. Since there are so few third-party sources, the article doesn't do very much to establish the notability of its subject (which, of course, is hard or impossible to do, given that the game isn't out yet). I'd like to sit around for a bit and see what other reviewers have to say about that. —Politizer talk/contribs 08:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Well, being Japanese media (visual novel, in particular, which is usually not reported by western sources, and on top of that not yet released as you've pointed out), it's not really exposed to much online sources. I do know that it's also previewed in other print magazines (published by other companies), but I wasn't able to obtain those. -- クラウド668 08:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I've changed them to use the {{citation}} template instead and added Flyable Heart review in as the title, hopefully that will work. Thanks for pointing it out. -- クラウド668 08:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Expiring noms
Articles created/expanded on November 26
Evolution: The Musical!
Template:DYKsuggestion at 07:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
- Article length is more than ample and creation date is OK, but the only source for the plot summary (including the hook fact) is a link to a copy of the movie itself. --Orlady (talk) 17:58, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- Almost all of the 4409-byte character count comes from an overly long and detailed plot summary that needs to be cut down. There is a tiny bit of info on production; the rest of the content is gone, I removed it because it was either a) unnecessary actor bios, or b) quotes from reviews. The article doesn't establish notability and the "press section" doesn't actually describe and summarize the response to and criticism of the film, it only lists links to other reviews. Finally, out of the three refs given, one is IMDB and one is the film itself. This article can't be passed without a lot of improvement. —Politizer talk/contribs 20:54, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- I disagree on the notability issue. The article includes links to reviews of the film by the San Francisco Chronicle, SF Weekly, and other mainstream publications. Notability has been met. I thought Rycer's article was a good start (i.e., clearly not a stub) on an interesting topic. The 4,409 characters more than exceeds DYK standards for length. Clearly, the article can and should be improved. If others feel it should not be listed on DYK until it is improved further, I'd suggest holding it over for the Darwin Day DYK submissions and see if it can be improved for that event. Cbl62 (talk) 15:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) But none of the reviews are actually written about and described, they're just put in a list; it looks more like a rottentomatoes page than a Wikipedia article. As for the length, almost all of it is from a long plot section; if you count only count the lead and Production sections (the only two other substantive sections) it might not even be 1,000. Finally, the only citation in the article not related to plot is a single reference for where it was filmed, and that reference is unacceptable because it's from IMDB. —Politizer talk/contribs 15:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- If you want to pass on it, fine by me. My point about the reviews was that they do show that the topic is notable -- a point that you had previously questioned, i.e., a film reviewed by the San Francisco Chronicle and SF Weekly, and included in the SF Int'l Film Festival, should pass notability standards. Also not sure why you think the plot section should not be counted. Finally, you note that the reviews are just put in a list and not described, but there were previously quotes from the reviews included in the article, which you have deleted -- not sure why since the quotes were in quote marks and properly attributed. In any event, I thought it was a good start and a funny topic, but no big deal if the decision is to pass. Cbl62 (talk) 21:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- I removed the quotes because I considered it pretty un-Wikipedia-like to have just a list of critics and quotes without summarizing and describing them (again, it was more like a rotten tomatoes entry or like a playbill); if someone would take the time to read all those reviews and write a well-sourced Reception/Criticism section I would reconsider this nom, but right now I'm not in a position to do that work (I'm spending too much time on WP as is...). I don't mean to sound like I'm criticizing your judgment in nominating this hook or anything; you nominate a ton of valuable article that pass DYK and always show great judgment in picking articles to nominate, but this is one case where I just don't think the article is in good shape. —Politizer talk/contribs
- If you want to pass on it, fine by me. My point about the reviews was that they do show that the topic is notable -- a point that you had previously questioned, i.e., a film reviewed by the San Francisco Chronicle and SF Weekly, and included in the SF Int'l Film Festival, should pass notability standards. Also not sure why you think the plot section should not be counted. Finally, you note that the reviews are just put in a list and not described, but there were previously quotes from the reviews included in the article, which you have deleted -- not sure why since the quotes were in quote marks and properly attributed. In any event, I thought it was a good start and a funny topic, but no big deal if the decision is to pass. Cbl62 (talk) 21:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) But none of the reviews are actually written about and described, they're just put in a list; it looks more like a rottentomatoes page than a Wikipedia article. As for the length, almost all of it is from a long plot section; if you count only count the lead and Production sections (the only two other substantive sections) it might not even be 1,000. Finally, the only citation in the article not related to plot is a single reference for where it was filmed, and that reference is unacceptable because it's from IMDB. —Politizer talk/contribs 15:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
See also
- User:AlexNewArtBot/GoodSearchResult – This is an automated list of promising new articles generated by AlexNewArtBot (talk · contribs · logs).
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