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::You've violated 3RR here. Please revert yourself and work it out on the Talk: page. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></small></sup> 01:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC) |
::You've violated 3RR here. Please revert yourself and work it out on the Talk: page. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></small></sup> 01:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC) |
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::All sorts of people and groups use the term; your attempts to insist that the phrase is only used in Israel, or is only used in a biblical sense, are misleading. It is used by Americans and American groups,[http://www.zoa.org/sitedocuments/pressrelease_view.asp?pressreleaseID=1484] Canadian groups,[http://www.bnaibrith.ca/prdisplay.php?id=1357]. U.K. newspapers,[http://www.thejc.com/node/4277] etc. Please stop inserting misleading qualifiers into the phrase and the lede. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></small></sup> 04:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC) |
::All sorts of people and groups use the term; your attempts to insist that the phrase is only used in Israel, or is only used in a biblical sense, are misleading. It is used by Americans and American groups,[http://www.zoa.org/sitedocuments/pressrelease_view.asp?pressreleaseID=1484] Canadian groups,[http://www.bnaibrith.ca/prdisplay.php?id=1357]. U.K. newspapers,[http://www.thejc.com/node/4277] etc. Please stop inserting misleading qualifiers into the phrase and the lede. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></small></sup> 04:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC) |
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:::The Jewish Chronicle online blog post you have cited also refers to (inverted commas in the original) "Israel proper". Now do we add that sarcastic description to every mention of the Israeli state within the Green Line? And are you seriously trying to suggest that the Zionist Organisation of America is just some random, politically neutral "American group"? Amusingly of course your citing of what that group - as well as the Israeli MFA and the Jewish Agency for Israel - prefer to call occupied territory captured in war merely reinforces the point about what we are dealing with here. To give equivalence to the phrase "Judea and Samaria" (rather than simply, openly and accurately explaining that it is a minority description, used primarily by the occupying power) is fraudulent and dishonest, as you surely know unless you are simply stupid, which I doubt. This fatuous dispute has now been spread across up to five pages now, while you and others refuse to accept what is surely obvious to any rational, objective and independent observer, seemingly because it contradicts a limited and closeted view of the world. It is precisely this kind of propagandistic, ethnic-religious-nationalist-statist cr#p that bedevils Wikipedia and renders it sadly but frequently unreliable. --[[User:Nickhh|Nickhh]] ([[User talk:Nickhh|talk]]) 10:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC) |
Revision as of 10:58, 14 December 2008
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Area's A, B and C
Hi all, firstly let me say I think this is an excellent article. There is a section where areas are discussed (A, B and C) from what I read I see that they vary in Israeli / Palestinian population densities for me I thoght it would be useful to have a map of some kin clearly colour coded with these regions on it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.30.156.106 (talk) 06:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- They're on the UN OCHA Closures map in the article, for example. High resolution version --JWB (talk) 06:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Bethlehem christians
I removed an unsourced and frankly apalling paragraph which concluded that 'Arafat flooded Bethlehem with Muslems[sic] from nearby villages and Hevron[sic]. As a result of rape, assault, and murder, Christian Arabs in larger numbers felt compelled to leave the city. As of 2003, Christian Arabs comprise a mere 20% of Bethlehem.'
I cannot find any sources outside of Christian Zionist activism websites which make these bizarre claims; indeed, a Bethlehem mayor Elias Freij was cited as begging for Israel to save him from Arafat's attacks, when in fact his New York Times obituary notes that he was "a confidant of the Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat" who "maintained close contact with the P.L.O. during the exile years" and later served as Arafat's tourism minister.
Whatever ethnic / religious tensions may exist in Bethlehem, they aren't serious enough to warrant attention in the article West Bank, and the article Bethlehem already deals with them in a much more neutral and factual manner. For example, it notes that in a poll of Bethlehem's Christians, "78% attributed the ongoing exodus of Christians from Bethlehem to the Israeli travel restrictions in the area." (Bethlehem's Christians had been very hard hit by the collapse of tourism in Palestine since 2000.) <eleland/talkedits> 20:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
British Mandate Palestine
[[::User:Canadian Monkey|Canadian Monkey]] ([[::User talk:Canadian Monkey|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Canadian Monkey|contribs]]) -->, you reverted my edit correcting the information regarding British Mandate Palestine. Though it is true that at the San Remo Conference in 1920, the British Mandate in Palestine was to comprise territory in modern-day Jordan, Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, in 1921, the Transjordan was split off to be administered separately.[1] This move formalized by the addition of a September 1922 clause to the charter governing the Mandate for Palestine.[2] Further, the British Mandate in Palestine officially began in 1923, and at that time the Transjordan was not a part of it. Would you mind restoring my edit please? Thanks. Tiamuttalk 04:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- Your edit was incorrect - there was no such thing as a 'mandate of Transjordan'. It is true that the transjordanian part was administered under a different regime (which is what I noted in my edit summary), per the 1922 clause allowing this, but there was only one mandate handed out - for Palestine.Canadian Monkey (talk) 14:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
"also known as Judea and Samaria"
All sorts of groups and individuals prefer the term "Judea and Samaria" to "West Bank", it's not just "Gush Emunim" or "the settler movement". It is, after all, officially Israel's seventh administrative district, which is why you'll find the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs referring to it that way,[1] the Jewish Agency for Israel,[2], non-governmental sources like The Jerusalem Post,[3] academic sources published by American university presses,[4] etc. Please stop inserting demonstrably false material into the lede, thanks. Jayjg (talk) 00:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
- Some cites were added by User:NoCal100 to bolster that exact claim, and they were by the IDF and Gush E — which is demonstrably true, not false, as you claim. I have no problems at all with adding the Israeli government, the Jerusalem Post, the Jewish Agency for Israel, and certain Israeli scholars to the list of "J+S" users. MeteorMaker (talk) 01:01, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
- You've violated 3RR here. Please revert yourself and work it out on the Talk: page. Jayjg (talk) 01:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
- All sorts of people and groups use the term; your attempts to insist that the phrase is only used in Israel, or is only used in a biblical sense, are misleading. It is used by Americans and American groups,[5] Canadian groups,[6]. U.K. newspapers,[7] etc. Please stop inserting misleading qualifiers into the phrase and the lede. Jayjg (talk) 04:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
- The Jewish Chronicle online blog post you have cited also refers to (inverted commas in the original) "Israel proper". Now do we add that sarcastic description to every mention of the Israeli state within the Green Line? And are you seriously trying to suggest that the Zionist Organisation of America is just some random, politically neutral "American group"? Amusingly of course your citing of what that group - as well as the Israeli MFA and the Jewish Agency for Israel - prefer to call occupied territory captured in war merely reinforces the point about what we are dealing with here. To give equivalence to the phrase "Judea and Samaria" (rather than simply, openly and accurately explaining that it is a minority description, used primarily by the occupying power) is fraudulent and dishonest, as you surely know unless you are simply stupid, which I doubt. This fatuous dispute has now been spread across up to five pages now, while you and others refuse to accept what is surely obvious to any rational, objective and independent observer, seemingly because it contradicts a limited and closeted view of the world. It is precisely this kind of propagandistic, ethnic-religious-nationalist-statist cr#p that bedevils Wikipedia and renders it sadly but frequently unreliable. --Nickhh (talk) 10:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
- ^ Ian Lustick (1988). For the Land and the Lord: Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel. Council on Foreign Relations. p. 37. ISBN 0876090366.
- ^ Ilan Pappe (2004). A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples. Cambridge University Press. p. 84. ISBN 0521556325.