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Marriage and gay rights
[Full disclosure: longtime editor here, but I'm now a full-time employee of the Democratic National Committee, which is headed by Tim Kaine.]
There's a seriously botched quote in the political positions section, which I'm going to mark w/ a dubious tag. It includes two paragraphs that are nowhere in the reference provided. The juxtaposition of unsourced and non-contemporaneous language distorts Kaine's views, and lends to an inference that the quoted passage represents a single comment by Kaine on LGBT rights—which is incorrect.
Since I have a clear potential conflict of interest I'll refrain from making a substantive edit. This needs fixing, though. —GGreeneVa (talk) 16:28, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
- I removed the quote, which appears to be original research. I'm working on cleaning up the article in general, so I do hope to add in something encyclopedic and well-sourced on the topic of gay marriage in the future. If you could point me in the right direction, I'd certainly appreciate it. Arbor8 (talk) 19:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- I can do my best -- I'll try to collect some references soon. —GGreeneVa (talk) 19:13, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
- I was just looking through that and it was a joke. The quotes were from Kilgore...don't know how that would translate to Kaine's positions? But I found some stuff about Kaine's dealings with LGBT rights. Kept it open and it is now a general overview of actions. Bucka Sucka (talk) 22:51, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
The claim "In 2006, Kaine campaigned against an amendment to the Virginia State Constitution to bar same-sex marriage" is not supported at all by its citation. Stichodactyla (talk) 05:26, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Political positions/tenure as Governor
I'm working on cleaning up this article and I'm having some trouble improving/expanding the "Political Positions" section without duplicating a lot of the content from the section about his tenure as governor. Is the Governor section too detailed? I'd like to include notable news items and examples in the "political positions" section to avoid turning it into a regurgitation of his campaign site. Does that make sense? Arbor8 (talk) 21:45, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Does it make any sense to say Kaine was praised for his response to the VA Tech tragedy without delving into the issue of whether campus security guards were unarmed before the incident and whether they are unarmed today? Or does Political Correctness forbid any discussion of this extremely salient issue? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.233.118 (talk) 02:15, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
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Lock
Can we get an admin here to lock the page, too much vandalism by unregistered people. Obinna Onyemaobi (talk) 23:42, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Nevermind, Thank you. Obinna Onyemaobi (talk) 23:43, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Project Exile
I have changed the wording for Project Exile to qualify the claims of its success. Crime fell in the mid to late 1990s throughout the U.S. where various approaches were taken including broken windows, Boston miracle, community policing, improving professionalism or in some cases no changes at all. It is impossible to approve that any of these approaches caused any results and it should be reported as opinion rather than fact. TFD (talk) 01:38, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2016
Capitalize "2016 Vice Presidential Campaign"
66.220.20.54 (talk) 04:30, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Not done Good faith request denied per WP:MOSCAPS.--JayJasper (talk) 04:49, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
When did his family settle in America?
Is anyone able to find reliable sources about his ancestry? When did his family emigrate from Scotland/Ireland to the United States? Where did they first settle?Zigzig20s (talk) 05:07, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- I have found this.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:27, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
- How reliable is that site? – Muboshgu (talk) 16:09, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
TYPO FIX
Typo fix request: "and the the Subcommittee on Seapower." has a repeated "the" to clean up
Done Thanks, I've corrected the typo. Neutralitytalk 06:12, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2016 - Arbitration Remedies
According to this talk page and active arbitration remedies, all editors must obtain firm consensus on the talk page of this article before reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion).
With this edit, User:Neutrality violated that arbitration remedy and reinstated edits (mostly their own) that were challenged by revision.
The material added by COI editors should be removed, as required by arbitration, and consensus must be obtained before adding any of it back into the article. This is not the appropriate place to dispute the arbitration decision and not the appropriate time to flaunt it. User:Lord Roem further complicated things by supervoting and locking a preferred version of the page, which is also prohibited and flaunts the arbitration remedy listed.
Please restore the article to this version and remind editors that they must adhere to the arbitration decisions and remedies.
173.161.39.97 (talk) 14:43, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Hatting refuted accusation
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Arbitration Enforcement RequestEditor Neutrality has a clear conflict of interest and has been reverting and otherwise reinserting challenged material into this and other political articles, in clear violation of the arbitration remedies listed at the top of this talk page. I have requested enforcement of the arbitration remedies and asked that the editor be immediately barred from further editing current political articles. Please see the enforcement request for additional details. Thank you. 173.161.39.97 (talk) 15:42, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
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Tim Kaine took $160,000 worth of gifts while in office
However,Tim Kaine did receive an $18,000 Caribbean vacation, $5,500 in clothes and trip to the NCAA basketball tournament.
The gifts were under Virginia's relatively relaxed gift laws.
You The Reader Decide?
(70.39.15.6 (talk) 18:51, 23 July 2016 (UTC))
- Reference? --MelanieN (talk) 18:55, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Or how about we the editors decide whether or not to just delete this sort of junk? Carptrash (talk) 20:01, 23 July 2016 (UTC), who will not vote for Kaine in November
- Yes please.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:16, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Here. Note I am taking no position on this content as an editor. --NeilN talk to me 20:20, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- That link goes to this statement, " took $160,000 worth of legal gifts " (my highlight). What is the point of posting it if it is legal? It's just smear stuff, of which we shall be seeing lot more. Let's try and focus on things that are NOT legal or go against what he claims to do and that sort of thing. This is going to be an ugly few months until November in American politics, let us keep our guard up. Carptrash (talk) 20:30, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Agree. It appears the gifts were legal under Virginia law. Note also that the $160,000 was spread out over 8 years ($20,000 a year doesn't sound so attention-grabbing, does it?) and that his spokesman says he disclosed everything, even gifts below the reporting threshold. I don't see a story here, and I don't see the kind of widespread coverage that would justify including it. Reconsider if it becomes a widely reported issue later. --MelanieN (talk) 22:45, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- The story has received some press coverage in recent months for two reasons 1) His successor Gov. McDonnell was convicted for taking unreported gifts (by contrast Kaine's gifts were reported) and 2) Kaine was long rumored to be a top contender for Clinton's VP.
- Trump has already brought up the issue on twitter. I suspect the story will reappear a few times over the coming days. I checked to see where it appeared before the VP announcement and in addition to Politico, I also found ABC News CNN and CBS News. I think it is ok to include provided it is carefully worded to reflect what actually happened including that the gifts were legal and he reported more than was required, and what is added should be well sourced. Maybe test out possible variations here on the talk page before adding to the article? Knope7 (talk) 23:44, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Agree. It appears the gifts were legal under Virginia law. Note also that the $160,000 was spread out over 8 years ($20,000 a year doesn't sound so attention-grabbing, does it?) and that his spokesman says he disclosed everything, even gifts below the reporting threshold. I don't see a story here, and I don't see the kind of widespread coverage that would justify including it. Reconsider if it becomes a widely reported issue later. --MelanieN (talk) 22:45, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- That link goes to this statement, " took $160,000 worth of legal gifts " (my highlight). What is the point of posting it if it is legal? It's just smear stuff, of which we shall be seeing lot more. Let's try and focus on things that are NOT legal or go against what he claims to do and that sort of thing. This is going to be an ugly few months until November in American politics, let us keep our guard up. Carptrash (talk) 20:30, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Or how about we the editors decide whether or not to just delete this sort of junk? Carptrash (talk) 20:01, 23 July 2016 (UTC), who will not vote for Kaine in November
Since it has received coverage in mainstream media following Kaine's selection as VP candidate, we should mention it. Certainly we should state that receiving the gifts was legal. But legal does not necessarily mean it was a wise course of action. TFD (talk) 01:24, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Readers may reasonably expect this subject to be covered here. Carefully. Thus "Under VA law, officeholders may accept certain gifts. Kaine did so at times, examples. Critics, without reference to legality, have called this ..." Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 02:17, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- You're right. How about something like this, as the last paragraph of the "Governor" section: "During his 8 years as lieutenant governor and governor of Virginia, Kaine
disclosedreported that he received a total of $160,000 worth of "gifts", mostly in the form of travel to and from events. Such gifts are legal under Virginia law as long as they are disclosed. A spokesman said that Kaine "went beyond the requirements of Virginia law, even publicly disclosing gifts of value beneath the reporting threshold." The Republican National Committee indicated they intend to make an issue of these gifts during the election." That's based on the ABC News story linked above. --MelanieN (talk) 03:33, 24 July 2016 (UTC)- A start. I changed one word. Hope it's ok to modify your text as I have.
- Since this is going under his years as governor, the evaluations (spokesman/RNC) should be replaced with comparable comments made during his time as governor. As written, this is suitable for a WP entry about the campaign. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 08:16, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Good point. I would like to put it in the governor section if possible. But I don't think anyone raised it as an issue while he was governor or while he was running for senator; the gifts were legal and were normal practice in Virginia. How about, "In 2016 after Kaine was nominated for vice president, the Republican National Committee indicated they intend to make an issue of these gifts during the election." ?--MelanieN (talk) 19:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- The defense of the gifts dates to 2016 as does the RNC statement of intent. I'd exclude both. I also hate the phrase "a total of $160,000" when we only need to say "$160,000". So I'd try:
While lieutenant governor and governor of Virginia, Kaine reported accepting $160,000 worth of "gifts", which were legal under Virginia law if disclosed. Most of the money covered travel expenses for official business or campaigning.[1] No one accused him of promising to use his office in return.[2][a] He later supported restrictions on gifts, writing: "Gifts to elected officials can create a subconscious sense of gratitude in even the most upright public servants."[3]
- Good point. I would like to put it in the governor section if possible. But I don't think anyone raised it as an issue while he was governor or while he was running for senator; the gifts were legal and were normal practice in Virginia. How about, "In 2016 after Kaine was nominated for vice president, the Republican National Committee indicated they intend to make an issue of these gifts during the election." ?--MelanieN (talk) 19:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- You're right. How about something like this, as the last paragraph of the "Governor" section: "During his 8 years as lieutenant governor and governor of Virginia, Kaine
- ^ Rogin, Ali (June 30, 2016). "Possible Hillary Clinton VP Pick Under Scrutiny for Past Gifts". ABC News. Retrieved July 24, 2016.
- ^ a b "Kaine's acceptance of gifts in Virginia could create opening for Republicans". Washington Post. July 22, 2016. Retrieved July 24, 2016.
Kaine has never faced accusations of promising state action in exchange for any of his gifts.
- ^ Kaine, Tim (December 31, 2013). "Give Virginia the gift of strong ethics laws". Washington Post. Retrieved July 24, 2016.
- ^ The acceptance of gifts by Virginia officials became the subject of controversy when Kaine's successor, Governor Robert F. McDonnell, was accused of using his office in return for gifts and loans that he had not disclosed.[2]
- Too much? Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 20:38, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- I'm OK with that. If the Republicans bring it up during the campaign that could go in the "election" section. I would like to begin with "During his 8 years as lieutenant governor and governor" since that puts the amount in much better perspective. --MelanieN (talk) 01:00, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Fair enough. You may or may not need "of Virginia". Your call. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 02:08, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Go ahead and add it (if no-one objects). I'm going to be gone for a few days so don't wait for me to chime in on anything; just go ahead and reach consensus and do it. --MelanieN (talk) 02:11, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Fair enough. You may or may not need "of Virginia". Your call. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 02:08, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- I'm OK with that. If the Republicans bring it up during the campaign that could go in the "election" section. I would like to begin with "During his 8 years as lieutenant governor and governor" since that puts the amount in much better perspective. --MelanieN (talk) 01:00, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Too much? Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 20:38, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Ordering within sections: Political positions, governor of Indiana
I think these should be ordered in alphabetical order. That's how we do it on the 'Political Positions of HRC", 'Political Positions of Trump" pages, and have apparently tried to at the "Mike Pence" page. It would be really difficult to navigate the page otherwise (both for editors and readers). As more sections will be created (this page will be smack-full of them in two weeks' time), the order according to importance will get screwed up. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 20:37, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Meh, I think the issue of too many sections can be solved by grouping sections together. I thought about grouping a few of them together when I made that edit, such as grouping abortion, LGBT, & gender (of which I see the last two have been merged now) under a "Gender and sexuality" heading, Guns & Crime with Death Penalty under a "Criminal Justice" or "Justice system" heading, and then perhaps Financial regulation, Taxes, & Trade under an "Economy" heading, but I thought that would be too much of a change and someone would just revert it.
- That said, I wouldn't be outright opposed to putting them in alphabetical order. I just think more grouping of the sections would mitigate the size/navigatability issue (editors would think to put an economic position in the "Economy" section for example), and putting the sections he's most notable for at the top gives the reader an idea about which of his positions are the most notable because most people would assume the more "important" sections would be listed towards the top. By the way, I measured the notability of each section by word count and number of sources used. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 03:31, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- We could do broad groupings ("Social and domestic policy"; "Economic policy"; "Foreign and military policy") and set off individual sub-issues with boldface type within each grouping. Neutralitytalk 21:14, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- I think that's a great idea MidnightRequestLine (talk) 08:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Restore ratings by interest groups and reliable secondary sources (538)
Content was removed that put Kaine's voting behavior in context: how he compares to US politicians, fellow Democrats and how interest groups rate him. I'd like to see it restored because it is very helpful content and AFAIK the kind of content we commonly see on politicians' wiki pages. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:19, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- DrCruse has removed more similar content . I'd like to ask him to restore it. He also removed perfectly acceptable content where Kaine's position on sex ed is clarified. I completely disagree with putting gender equality under the LGBT section. Using the talk page because I don't want to get sanctioned for edit warring (is it really the case that you shouldn't revert edits, even if perfectly reasonable?) Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:37, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- The user just removed Kaine's explanation for overseeing executions despite opposing them. Not OK.Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:38, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Hey I'd be happy to explain some of the edits I've made. I removed a lot of the third party "we approve or disapprove of this candidate" because I did not see much similar content (certainly not to the same extent) on Mike Pence, Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton's pages. Hillary Clinton's page is featured, but does not reference FiveThirtyEight or the NRA's ratings, for example. I lumped LGBT and Gender issues together because they overlap (the T in LGBT is a gender issue) and because there was very little content in the gender section. I also removed a lot of Kaine quotes where they seemed redundant or overly partisan (if the article said "Kaine supports X. He said: 'X is really great, it's of great value to our communities.'" I would remove the second sentence because it adds nothing to the article.) Perhaps I was a touch overzealous, and I would be happy to clarify the part about executions if you want. --DrCruse (talk) 21:53, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- The user just removed Kaine's explanation for overseeing executions despite opposing them. Not OK.Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:38, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Oh I only now see this discussion...after I restored some info... Gandydancer (talk)
- I'm not sure there was too much redundant content in the quotes that were removed. I don't want to lump the gender pay gap and other women's rights issues together with LGBT issues. You wouldn't expect to see a candidate's position on the gender pay gap, gender-equal cabinets, maternal leave, women in the military, take on feminism etc. under a LGBT heading. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 03:05, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- I've restored some of this content (deleted by DrCruse) pending further discussion. (Gandydancer had previously restored another set of content deleted by DrCruse).
- Some of the edits, I think, were not improvements. We should be careful to follow what the sources say, and some of the language was changed to go beyond what the source (specifically this source) says.
- With respect to these three edits in particular: the source says "combat-style weapons," not "semiautomatic rifles"; refers to "gun shows" specifically, not all private sales; and refers to suspected terrorists on the No Fly List, not "members" of the No Fly List (how can one be a "member" of a list? Doesn't make sense grammatically, even)
- Now, these edits may be accurate, but if we are to change the content, we need a reference specifically in support of the revised language. Neutralitytalk 22:30, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- As for the ratings and scales: 538 is helpful, I think, because it's a somewhat objective and all-encompassing measure of ideology. The individual interest groups ratings are less significant, but still somewhat informative - I'm open to persuasion as to their value/lack of value. Neutralitytalk 22:34, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Just want to chime in and support the reversion of almost all of that string of edits unless we go one by one. I fail to see how much of that is "loaded/non-neutral political language." For example I don't see how "weapons sold by private citizens" is loaded, or how changing it to "weapons sold in privates sales" makes any difference to its neutrality. The second version is also problematic because it uses the word "sold/sale" redundantly, and it changes the meaning significantly' - "private sales" sounds like it was just sold by a regulated business as opposed to an individual person ("private citizen"). There may be a case to be made on some of the edits though. For example "suspected terrorists on the no-fly list" is redundant, so I can see why you'd remove "suspected terrorists." It may be better to change that particular sentence to "...bar weapon sales to people on the no-fly list because he wants to keep suspected terrorists from obtaining them," because it's important to explain the intent of his position (which is really about the "suspected terrorists" part, not the "no-fly list" part. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 04:16, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
TYPO FIX
Under Budget and economy, change "national employment rate which rose from 4.7% to 9.9%" to "national unemployment rate which rose from 4.7% to 9.9%"
Omeish appointment and resignation
This material was removed with the comment "remove per WP:NPOV and WP:BLP":
Kaine appointed Esam Omeish to the Virginia Commission on Immigration, which was examining whether Virginia should do more to restrict illegal immigration. In September 2007, Omeish resigned as a commission member—as requested by Kaine—three hours after remarks made by Omeish on a call-in show on WRVA radio in Richmond were brought to Kaine's attention, specifically his criticisms of the Israel lobby and call for Bush's impeachment on account of the Iraq War. In addition, Omeish appeared in an undated video addressing Washington area Muslims "...you have learned the way, that you have known that the jihad way is the way to liberate your land."[1] "I have been made aware of certain statements he has made which concern me," Kaine said in accepting Omeish's resignation. Kaine added that background checks would be more thorough in the future.[2]
- ^ Virginia Governor Tim Kaine Accepts Resignation of Controversial Appointee, FOX News, September 27, 2007, accessed December 9, 2009]
- ^ "Immigration official resigns after 'jihad' remark". September 27, 2007.
The paragraph has since been restored (improperly since we are editing under discretionary sanctions) and removed at least twice more, and along the way has been edited by folks unaware of the interim removals and restorations, including me. This is the most recently removed version:
On August 2, 2007, Kaine appointed Esam Omeish to the 20-member Virginia Commission on Immigration, which was examining whether Virginia should do more to restrict illegal immigration. On September 27, 2007, Kane requested and received Omeish's resignation three hours after learning that Omeish, while participating in a call-in show on WRVA radio in Richmond, had criticized the Israel lobby and called for Bush's impeachment on account of the Iraq War. In addition, Omeish had appeared in an undated video addressing Washington area Muslims "...you have learned the way, that you have known that the jihad way is the way to liberate your land."[1] "I have been made aware of certain statements he has made which concern me," Kaine said in accepting Omeish's resignation. Kaine added that background checks would be more thorough in the future.[2]
- ^ "Virginia Governor Tim Kaine Accepts Resignation of Controversial Appointee". FOX News. September 27, 2007. Retrieved December 9, 2009.
- ^ "Immigration official resigns after 'jihad' remark". NBC News. Associated Press. September 27, 2007. Retrieved July 23, 2016.
Because we are editing under discretionary sanctions as explained above, it can only be restored if we have consensus. I think it should be restored. Your thoughts? Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 18:37, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- I saw no reason for removing that content. I'm interested to hear what the rationale was. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 18:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Pinging User:Volunteer Marek who twice removed it and User:CFredkin who twice restored it. --MelanieN (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Can we cover this in two sentences? I can see it being included, but a paragraph seems a bit much. Neutralitytalk 19:06, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- I'd be happy removing this material which is antecedent to the appointment, more Omeish's back story:
In addition, Omeish had appeared in an undated video addressing Washington area Muslims "...you have learned the way, that you have known that the jihad way is the way to liberate your land."
- Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 19:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- And perhaps this qualifier as well, since the precise responsibility of the Commission doesn't matter:
, which was examining whether Virginia should do more to restrict illegal immigration
- And we needn't include the precise radio station. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 19:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Either remove it or keep it to one sentence, per User:Neutrality. It's way too much UNDUE weight, especially in a BLP. And wording such as "Israel lobby" is POV.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:06, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for being specific about the POV issue. I note that User:Neutrality said two sentences, not one. Reviewing the sourcing, I also see that it was Kaine who participated on the radio show and there learned about Omeish from someone who called in -- all of which is quite irrelevant. Here's the two-sentence text I propose:
On September 27, 2007, just weeks after appointing Esam Omeish to the 20-member Virginia Commission on Immigration, Kane learned that Omeish had made videos accusing Israel of genocide and calling for the impeachment of President Bush.[1] Kaine requested and received Omeish's resignation and said that background checks would be more thorough in the future.[2]
- ^ "Virginia Governor Tim Kaine Accepts Resignation of Controversial Appointee". FOX News. September 27, 2007. Retrieved July 24, 2016.
- ^ "Immigration official resigns after 'jihad' remark". NBC News. Associated Press. September 27, 2007. Retrieved July 24, 2016.
- All editors are welcome to comment, of course. Pinging User:Volunteer Marek, User:CFredkin, User:Snooganssnoogans, User:Neutrality, User:MelanieN. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 23:17, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Without expressing an opinion of the merits of the two sentences generally, I would note that it might be helpful to include the word "immediately" before the word "requested" — the controversial statement and the resignation occurred within hours of each other. Neutralitytalk 00:30, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- I'm OK with this draft. Although it is kind of ancient history, the subject seems to have gotten enough coverage to justify including it. --MelanieN (talk) 02:13, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Done. Lots of bits in a bio are ancient history, AKA history, like spending on the Million Man March. Still of interest. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 00:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- Million Mom March, nor Million Man March—quite different! Neutralitytalk 00:50, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
- Done. Lots of bits in a bio are ancient history, AKA history, like spending on the Million Man March. Still of interest. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 00:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- I'm OK with this draft. Although it is kind of ancient history, the subject seems to have gotten enough coverage to justify including it. --MelanieN (talk) 02:13, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Without expressing an opinion of the merits of the two sentences generally, I would note that it might be helpful to include the word "immediately" before the word "requested" — the controversial statement and the resignation occurred within hours of each other. Neutralitytalk 00:30, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
TYPO FIX
Reference 60, change "Dmoking" to "Smoking"
Allijean (talk) 22:49, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Jesuit Volunteer Corps internationally
The Jesuit Volunteer Corps did not have non-domestic (non-US) postings in 1981. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.250.117.186 (talk) 00:56, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
The Jesuit Volunteer Corps did not have non-domestic (non-US) postings in 1981. Tim Kaine was a volunteer with a group of Jesuit priests in Honduras, not with the Jesuit International Volunteers (now Jesuit Volunteers International) which did not yet exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.250.117.186 (talk) 00:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- Our source says Jesuit Volunteer Corps and you've provided no alternatives. I'll try to research this. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 01:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- I've modified our account. It's clear he went before this program worked internationally and volunteered in Honduras without any "sponsoring organization" aside from his hosts. Thanks. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 16:25, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Proposed change of the lead paragraph
I propose a change of the lead paragraph from:
"...is an American attorney and politician serving as the junior United States Senator from Virginia. A member of the Democratic Party, Kaine was elected to the Senate in 2012 and is the nominee of the Democratic Party for Vice President of the United States in the 2016 election."
to
"...is an American politician and attorney, the Democratic Party nominee for Vice President of the United States, in the 2016 election. He has been serving as the junior United States Senator from Virginia since 2012."2605:6000:EF88:7500:C401:9AF1:9F2C:5C95 (talk) 18:49, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
those dad jokes
Should something about'em be added to the "Personality and style" section [3]?Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:06, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
- It might be worthy a very brief mention. Politico reported that "Kaine projected the image of a suburban dad..." at his convention speech (link), while Rich Lowry of the National Review described him "the aggressively normal Tim Kaine, a career politician who has maintained the affect of a suburban dad..." (link). Neutralitytalk 18:29, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Tim Kaine Succeeded by...
Kaine was not succeeded by Donna. That's his successor's successor. He was succeeded by Debbie Wasserman Schultz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Expiscor32 (talk • contribs) 12:43, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
- Correct; corrected. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 17:15, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
Sources as to his high school
From https://rockhursths.edu/pages/news/news---senator-tim-kaine-selected Senator Kaine grew up in Overland Park, Kan. and attended Rockhurst High School, where he excelled in academics and speech and debate. These formative years at Rockhurst, Senator Kaine has noted, were integral to his belief in public service. A service trip to Honduras opened his eyes to the importance of being a "man for others."
From http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/07/read_full_text_of_tim_kaines_speech_at_dnc_2016.html I went to a Jesuit boys school – Rockhurst High School. The motto of our school was 'men for others.' That's where my faith became vital, a North Star for orienting my life. And I knew that I wanted to fight for social justice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.177.161 (talk) 01:44, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- We already report his high school days in standard fashion for a political bio. The material you provide might prove useful for what we have under "Personal life", though there are plenty of sources for the roots of his personal commitment, including the C-SPAN interview already cited with respect to his time in Honduras. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 02:06, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Tim Kaine RFC
Some editors here may be interested in an RFC at Talk:Kaine (disambiguation) on whether "Kaine" should direct (as it presently does) to comic book character Kaine, to the disambig page, or to the Democratic nominee for VP.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:01, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2016 - Religion in Personal Details section
The infobox on many U.S. politicians' pages includes the religion. Please add Tim Kaine's religion to the personal details section of the infobox. As stated in the Political Positions section, he is a Roman Catholic:
|religion = Roman Catholicism
- Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{edit semi-protected}}
template. — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:03, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
- Not sure why this wasn't already the case. Should be included. Moonboy54 (talk) 00:38, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
- Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Be BOLD and make the edit if this is appropriate. — Andy W. (talk) 20:07, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
I have proposed further editing limitations on these articles through the election at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Require consensus for candidate article edits through the election. Cheers! bd2412 T 23:42, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
ABC News source for VP pick
I'd like to add this sentence to the end of the first paragraph of Tim_Kaine#2016_vice_presidential_campaign which discusses Clinton's choice of running mate:
Email allegedly obtained from a hack of John Podesta's email account suggested Clinton had already chosen Kaine as her running mate by July 2015.[1][2]
- ^ Parks, Maryalice. "What We Learned From the Purported John Podesta Emails From WikiLeaks". abcnews.go.com. ABC News.
- ^ https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/2986#efmABHAB3AB6ACN
Any objections? James J. Lambden (talk) 04:27, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
- Yes. I don't think this adds anything of encyclopedic value to the article and the suggestion to include appears to be an attempt to WP:COATRACK Wikileaks into this article.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:36, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
- Your objection should perhaps be expanded upon. The focus of the paragraph is the process that resulted in her choice of running mate; this does seem to be relevant to that focus, more so than the existing comment on alternates, which apparently is misinformed. James J. Lambden (talk) 04:54, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
- Support. Obviously important. We don't just obediently parrot what the media oligarchy is told to publish by the political duopoly's PR machines. ( Or do we? ) Worthy of note are the large number of prestigious journalism awards that have been bestowed upon it, which speak to the reliable nature of the work of Wikileaks. We mustn't cover up its reporting. It's a reliable secondary source for the source material it publishes. The proposed article text doesn't even contain the word Wikileaks; Marek's allegation is without foundation. WP:NOTCENSORED. --Elvey(t•c) 07:41, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose I read the sources. They do not suggest Clinton made her decision a year ago, merely that at one person thought she had. Unless this develops into an issue and observers and participants weigh in, it seems trivial. TFD (talk) 19:31, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
LT Governor
I think Kaine's time as LT Governor of Virginia should be expanded upon. Currently the section covers the election and his swearing in but any account of his actions as LT Gov is absent. I tried to find some sources but some Virginia papers don't include archives that go back far enough. Can anyone please help find some source material to expand this section? I assume the section will remain fairly sparse as LT Gov is not one of the most consequential positions he held, however, I do think we should have something there to categorize his time in office. Thanks! Knope7 (talk) 18:58, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
Error in the wording of climate change verbiage
By stating that Tim Kaine "acknowledges" the supposed scientific consensus on climate change, this article implies that there IS such a consensus. That is clearly refutable. Over 300 climate researchers have signed on to a memorandum stating that they disagree with at least some portion of the statement that climate change is real, and that it is caused by human activity. Hardly a "consensus." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:40E:8100:EEA:503E:5D6A:E727:7C6 (talk) 18:12, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Youngest son
I removed a bit about Tim Kaine's youngest son being arrested given that: "No charges were filed against Kaine or the other protesters who were detained due to 'insufficient facts to prove felony-level riot,' according to the Ramsey County Attorney’s Office." (link). Given this, and the fact that this appears to be a one-off incident, I find no long-term significance sufficient to include in the biography of the father. Neutralitytalk 22:27, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- If his son ever gets an article we can surely include it. Until then, this is the article about Kaine, not the Kaine family. TimothyJosephWood 23:25, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- I believe Tim Kaine and his wife put out a statement, which starts to look a little more relevant. I do agree it is not enough at this time. If it becomes an issue that Tim Kaine continues to have to address, then it might be worth adding later. Knope7 (talk) 01:53, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
- I would leave it out. we don't even mention Billy Carter in the Jimmy Carter article except to say he was his brother. TFD (talk) 07:02, 9 March 2017 (UTC)