Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) m Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:Suicide of Tyler Clementi/Archive 4) (bot |
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|text = See also related [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 October 1|deletion review]] dated 1 October 2010 of article [[Tyler Clementi]]}} |
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If, [[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]], the "infobox event" template can't be used for this article, why do some or many other articles about deaths of individual persons use "infobox event" instead of "infobox person"? Why not changing "infobox person" to "infobox event"? --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 22:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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⚫ | I have just modified 8 external links on [[Suicide of Tyler Clementi]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=798927831 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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Off-topic, but the consensus at [[Talk:No%C3%ABl_Coward/Archive_2#RfC:_Should_an_Infobox_be_added_to_the_page.3F|Talk:Noel Coward]] to omit an infobox... actually, there was "no consensus" on an infobox, so the version that lacks an infobox is used by default. Can that be used as a precedent? --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 23:00, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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⚫ | *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130527220831/http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C to http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C |
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:I'd welcome hearing from other editors about this question, but the way that I see it, the choice of template is subject to editorial judgment, page-by-page. I do, of course, understand that the page is about the event and not the person. But as I indicated in my edit summary, I think that it is important to retain a certain amount of personal information: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suicide_of_Tyler_Clementi&type=revision&diff=752178565&oldid=752020466]. I felt that the way the infobox was presented after your edit left out too much information. I don't care what the template is called. If the event template can provide the same information, then I don't mind using it instead. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:07, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:: Let's see {{lookfrom|suicide of}} for comparison. Otherwise, let's compare. [[Suicide of Audrie Pott]] lacks [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suicide_of_Audrie_Pott&oldid=751967671 an infobox] for unknown reason. [[Suicide of Amanda Todd]] currently uses [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd&oldid=751454377 infobox event]. If comparison is not enough, I shall say this. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suicide_of_Tyler_Clementi&diff=752178565&oldid=752020466 The "infobox person"] doesn't add much substantial information; a reader can see birth dates in the lead without looking at an infobox. It discusses education profile but not adequately substantial. "Infobox event" tells readers who is or are directly and indirectly involved with the event. I added "charges" parameter and "arrests" parameter. But this is getting tricky if two of us can't agree which infobox shall be used. Call for RfC? [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 23:18, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::There are other editors who watch this page, so I'd like to just give a few days for them to comment if they want, before turning to an RfC. This issue certainly isn't an urgent one. But looking around, I quickly found these pages that use the person infobox: [[Suicide of Phoebe Prince]], [[Suicide of Dawn-Marie Wesley]], [[Suicide of Kelly Yeomans]], [[Suicide of Jadin Bell]], [[Suicide of Ryan Halligan]], [[Suicide of Megan Meier]], [[Suicide of Jamey Rodemeyer]], and [[Suicide of Nicola Ann Raphael]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:30, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::: Those pages aren't biography, yet "infobox person" is used. [[WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE]] says that infobox should be used to "summarize, not supplant, 'key' facts". I'm not confident that the usage of "infobox person" was reasonable, but you might interpret differently. [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 23:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::I think these ''are'' summaries of what is in the text. If an editor wanted to rename this page "Tyler Clementi" instead of "Suicide of...", I'd oppose that on the basis of it being about the event and not the person (and in fact this was a long-ago discussion that actually took place). But that pertains to notability and pagename, not the name of a template. Our readers do not even know what the names of templates are, and they don't care. What matters is what information we provide them with. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:56, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::: What is a "key fact"? I always thought that key fact is anything relevant. Can a key fact be also less important? Does adding "cause" and "arrests" qualify as key facts? [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 00:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:21, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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{{outdent|7}} I'll rephrase. The "infobox person" contains just birth date, death date, education, cause of death, and occupation. My version of "infobox event" contains "location", "arrest(s)", "charges", "trial". I wish I would have fleshed it out by adding "verdict", "convictions", "sentence", and "notes" before the revert back to "infobox person", which doesn't allow further improvement as the infobox of the article. The "event" one has more well-known summarized facts than "person" does... unless you can counter what I was saying? [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 00:46, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:I don't understand why you'd want to add parameters such as "verdict", "convictions", and "sentence". "Arrests", "charges", and "trial" (found in the version you saved before Tryptofish reverted) are already problematic, imo, because their connection to the ''event'' is an indirect one. Those would be appropriate for an article about a homicide. In an article about a suicide, they are potentially confusing. This may be a case of "if it ain't broke . . ." [[User:Rivertorch's Evil Twin|Rivertorch's Evil Twin]] ([[User talk:Rivertorch's Evil Twin|talk]]) 08:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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::And now that I see George Ho's answer, my own response is very much the same as what Rivertorch has said. It really ain't broke. It sounds to me like the argument for changing to the event template is something like: the suicide was an event, so we must rigidly use the event template, and because we are using that template, we should look for parameters to fill in that are associated with it. In my opinion, that's the wrong approach. The right approach, I think, is to ask "what best serves the improvement of this page?". Our readers don't care what we name our templates. They care about the information that we provide. A change in infobox would have to be justified by showing that the information would be more useful to our readers. Here, it appears that it would actually be less useful. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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== Dispute == |
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I invite the IP user who is edit warring today to discuss their concerns here. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 12:20, 12 December 2016 (UTC) |
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:Please don't. The "lol" in their edit summary and the content of their edits are clear indications that they are simply trolling, and they've already been answered in a section above this one. [[User:Celia Homeford|Celia Homeford]] ([[User talk:Celia Homeford|talk]]) 13:10, 12 December 2016 (UTC) |
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::{{replyto|Celia Homeford}} Thanks for the clarification; I had posted this because to report them as an edit warrior they need to be given an opportunity to discuss the issue. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 13:30, 12 December 2016 (UTC) |
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I have just modified |
I have just modified 4 external links on [[Suicide of Tyler Clementi]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/812150841|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/ |
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121017154404/http://www.northjersey.com/news/104132029_Tragic_end_for_a_true_talent.html?page=all to http://www.northjersey.com/news/104132029_Tragic_end_for_a_true_talent.html?page=all |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130404190512/http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/tyler_clement_case/Testimony_to_resume_in_Rutgers_webcam_spying_trial.html?c=y&page=2 to http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/tyler_clement_case/Testimony_to_resume_in_Rutgers_webcam_spying_trial.html?c=y&page=2 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110712213844/http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/news/candlelight-vigil-held-in-response-to-recent-suicides-1.1670212 to http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/news/candlelight-vigil-held-in-response-to-recent-suicides-1.1670212 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101017021916/http://www.easternecho.com/index.php/m/article/2010/10/spirit_day_to_honor_recent_homosexual_suicide_victims to http://www.easternecho.com/index.php/m/article/2010/10/spirit_day_to_honor_recent_homosexual_suicide_victims |
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== Discussion that may be of interest == |
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== External links modified == |
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Editors who follow this and other "Suicide of" pages may perhaps be interested in [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 November 14#Category:Victims of school bullying]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:57, 16 November 2018 (UTC) |
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== "Died by" or "committed" suicide? == |
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⚫ | I have just modified 8 external links on [[Suicide of Tyler Clementi]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=798927831 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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⚫ | *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130527220831/http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C to http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C |
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There was a Village Pump Request for Comment about the wording of suicides, archived at [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_164#RFC%3A_"Committed_suicide"_language]]. The RfC conclusion was that the terms used by the media should generally be followed, but that other formulations are acceptable. Whoever starts the article establishes the style. What is not acceptable is someone going around and changing the wording on multiple articles to fit their preference. I came here because [[Special:Contributions/207.206.228.56]] was doing exactly that: changing multiple articles to "committed suicide". |
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The first version of this biography did not have the words "commit" or "committed". Various editors have inserted it, while others have removed it. I acknowledge that some media reports use the formulation "committed suicide", but other reports do not. It's a toss-up. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 17:46, 10 November 2021 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 20:07, 8 March 2024
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External links modified
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I have just modified 8 external links on Suicide of Tyler Clementi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130527220831/http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C to http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110510014945/http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/29/police-probe-suicide-link-to-sex-tape-webcast-2-charged/ to http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/29/police-probe-suicide-link-to-sex-tape-webcast-2-charged/
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101002121042/http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-how-social-media-killed-tyler-clementi/19656326 to http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-how-social-media-killed-tyler-clementi/19656326
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101004013148/http://news.rutgers.edu/medrel/statements/2010/statement-of-preside-20101001 to http://news.rutgers.edu/medrel/statements/2010/statement-of-preside-20101001
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721213853/http://www.pointfoundation.org/scholarships/clementi.html to http://www.pointfoundation.org/scholarships/clementi.html
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120429191912/http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=331791 to http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=331791
- Added archive https://archive.is/20120630181634/http://www.sandiego.com/news/san-diego-schools-adopt-lgbt-resolution to http://www.sandiego.com/news/san-diego-schools-adopt-lgbt-resolution
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110325120142/http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/music/1467/ to http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/music/1467
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External links modified
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- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121017154404/http://www.northjersey.com/news/104132029_Tragic_end_for_a_true_talent.html?page=all to http://www.northjersey.com/news/104132029_Tragic_end_for_a_true_talent.html?page=all
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130404190512/http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/tyler_clement_case/Testimony_to_resume_in_Rutgers_webcam_spying_trial.html?c=y&page=2 to http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/tyler_clement_case/Testimony_to_resume_in_Rutgers_webcam_spying_trial.html?c=y&page=2
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110712213844/http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/news/candlelight-vigil-held-in-response-to-recent-suicides-1.1670212 to http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/news/candlelight-vigil-held-in-response-to-recent-suicides-1.1670212
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101017021916/http://www.easternecho.com/index.php/m/article/2010/10/spirit_day_to_honor_recent_homosexual_suicide_victims to http://www.easternecho.com/index.php/m/article/2010/10/spirit_day_to_honor_recent_homosexual_suicide_victims
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Discussion that may be of interest
Editors who follow this and other "Suicide of" pages may perhaps be interested in Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 November 14#Category:Victims of school bullying. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:57, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
"Died by" or "committed" suicide?
There was a Village Pump Request for Comment about the wording of suicides, archived at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_164#RFC:_"Committed_suicide"_language. The RfC conclusion was that the terms used by the media should generally be followed, but that other formulations are acceptable. Whoever starts the article establishes the style. What is not acceptable is someone going around and changing the wording on multiple articles to fit their preference. I came here because Special:Contributions/207.206.228.56 was doing exactly that: changing multiple articles to "committed suicide".
The first version of this biography did not have the words "commit" or "committed". Various editors have inserted it, while others have removed it. I acknowledge that some media reports use the formulation "committed suicide", but other reports do not. It's a toss-up. Binksternet (talk) 17:46, 10 November 2021 (UTC)