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|image = [[Image:Clipboard.svg|{{#ifeq:{{{small|}}}|yes|20px|35px}}|Articles for deletion review]] |
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|text = See also related [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 October 1|deletion review]] dated 1 October 2010 of article [[Tyler Clementi]]}} |
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== External links modified == |
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== Proposed merge with [[The Tyler Clementi Foundation]] == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just modified 8 external links on [[Suicide of Tyler Clementi]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=798927831 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130527220831/http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C to http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110510014945/http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/29/police-probe-suicide-link-to-sex-tape-webcast-2-charged/ to http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/29/police-probe-suicide-link-to-sex-tape-webcast-2-charged/ |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101002121042/http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-how-social-media-killed-tyler-clementi/19656326 to http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-how-social-media-killed-tyler-clementi/19656326 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101004013148/http://news.rutgers.edu/medrel/statements/2010/statement-of-preside-20101001 to http://news.rutgers.edu/medrel/statements/2010/statement-of-preside-20101001 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721213853/http://www.pointfoundation.org/scholarships/clementi.html to http://www.pointfoundation.org/scholarships/clementi.html |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120429191912/http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=331791 to http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=331791 |
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*Added archive https://archive.is/20120630181634/http://www.sandiego.com/news/san-diego-schools-adopt-lgbt-resolution to http://www.sandiego.com/news/san-diego-schools-adopt-lgbt-resolution |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110325120142/http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/music/1467/ to http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/music/1467 |
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{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}} |
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{{Discussion top|result=The result of this discussion was to '''Merge [[Tyler Clementi Foundation]] into [[Suicide of Tyler Clementi]]'''. I'm going ahead and performing the merge after closing this.{{nac}}--[[User:Lemongirl942|Lemongirl942]] ([[User talk:Lemongirl942|talk]]) 03:48, 30 June 2016 (UTC)}} |
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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 16:45, 4 September 2017 (UTC) |
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This foundation is already mentioned on this article, and doesn't seem notable on its own especially given the existence of this page. The Foundation page seems mildly promotional(though not enough to delete it IMO) [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 16:34, 19 April 2016 (UTC) |
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*'''Support'''. I agree, that's a very good idea. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:18, 19 April 2016 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' I agree with the rationale provided by the proposer. [[User:TheBlinkster|TheBlinkster]] ([[User talk:TheBlinkster|talk]]) 06:35, 28 April 2016 (UTC) |
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*'''Support'''. It's the merest of stubs now, and its content doesn't even suggest notability. If events warrant, it can always be broken back out into a separate article later on. [[User:Rivertorch's Evil Twin|Rivertorch's Evil Twin]] ([[User talk:Rivertorch's Evil Twin|talk]]) 04:46, 29 April 2016 (UTC) |
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*'''Support'''. I don't see why not. -- [[User:ChamithN|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">ChamithN</span>]] [[User talk:ChamithN|<span style="color:#228B22">''(talk)''</span>]] 08:39, 4 May 2016 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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{{Discussion bottom}} |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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== edit request - - - Clementi's suicide == |
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{{hat|Discussion closed}} |
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I had put in the introduction, a mention of the factual information that this guy '''COMMITTED SUICIDE TO ESCAPE THE PAIN AND HELL OF LIVING WITH HOMOSEXUALITY.''' However it seems some editors disagree what the reason was he had no more desire to live in this world. Please give me a lengthy and detailed reasoning of why you do not agree that this is the correct reason for ending his existence. [[Special:Contributions/172.58.217.16|172.58.217.16]] ([[User talk:172.58.217.16|talk]]) 10:17, 28 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:You appear to be [[meta:What is a troll?|trolling]] and are heading for a [[WP:BLOCK|block]] if you persist. In the unlikely event you are serious, three points, briefly: |
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:# Your opinion constitutes original research, which is banned in all articles. Please make no further edits to any article without acquainting yourself thoroughly with [[WP:NOR|the policy on original research]] and the other [[WP:CCPOL|core content policies]]. |
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:# Your edits have been not only disruptive to the project but potentially distressing to real people connected with the subject of the article. Shame on you. |
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:# It is not anyone else's responsibility to provide "a lengthy and detailed reasoning" why your edits are unacceptable. It is incumbent upon the user who proposes adding content to provide any such reasoning, and ''it must be compliant with policy''. Instead, you have [[WP:EW|edit warred]] and basically acted [[meta:Don't be a jerk|unacceptably]]. Give it a rest now, okay? |
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Please consider the matter closed. [[User:Rivertorch's Evil Twin|Rivertorch's Evil Twin]] ([[User talk:Rivertorch's Evil Twin|talk]]) 16:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC) |
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{{hab}} |
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I have just modified 4 external links on [[Suicide of Tyler Clementi]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/812150841|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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== Infobox == |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121017154404/http://www.northjersey.com/news/104132029_Tragic_end_for_a_true_talent.html?page=all to http://www.northjersey.com/news/104132029_Tragic_end_for_a_true_talent.html?page=all |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130404190512/http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/tyler_clement_case/Testimony_to_resume_in_Rutgers_webcam_spying_trial.html?c=y&page=2 to http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/tyler_clement_case/Testimony_to_resume_in_Rutgers_webcam_spying_trial.html?c=y&page=2 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110712213844/http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/news/candlelight-vigil-held-in-response-to-recent-suicides-1.1670212 to http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/news/candlelight-vigil-held-in-response-to-recent-suicides-1.1670212 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101017021916/http://www.easternecho.com/index.php/m/article/2010/10/spirit_day_to_honor_recent_homosexual_suicide_victims to http://www.easternecho.com/index.php/m/article/2010/10/spirit_day_to_honor_recent_homosexual_suicide_victims |
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. |
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If, [[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]], the "infobox event" template can't be used for this article, why do some or many other articles about deaths of individual persons use "infobox event" instead of "infobox person"? Why not changing "infobox person" to "infobox event"? --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 22:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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Off-topic, but the consensus at [[Talk:No%C3%ABl_Coward/Archive_2#RfC:_Should_an_Infobox_be_added_to_the_page.3F|Talk:Noel Coward]] to omit an infobox... actually, there was "no consensus" on an infobox, so the version that lacks an infobox is used by default. Can that be used as a precedent? --[[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 23:00, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 07:31, 26 November 2017 (UTC) |
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:I'd welcome hearing from other editors about this question, but the way that I see it, the choice of template is subject to editorial judgment, page-by-page. I do, of course, understand that the page is about the event and not the person. But as I indicated in my edit summary, I think that it is important to retain a certain amount of personal information: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suicide_of_Tyler_Clementi&type=revision&diff=752178565&oldid=752020466]. I felt that the way the infobox was presented after your edit left out too much information. I don't care what the template is called. If the event template can provide the same information, then I don't mind using it instead. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:07, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:: Let's see {{lookfrom|suicide of}} for comparison. Otherwise, let's compare. [[Suicide of Audrie Pott]] lacks [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suicide_of_Audrie_Pott&oldid=751967671 an infobox] for unknown reason. [[Suicide of Amanda Todd]] currently uses [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd&oldid=751454377 infobox event]. If comparison is not enough, I shall say this. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suicide_of_Tyler_Clementi&diff=752178565&oldid=752020466 The "infobox person"] doesn't add much substantial information; a reader can see birth dates in the lead without looking at an infobox. It discusses education profile but not adequately substantial. "Infobox event" tells readers who is or are directly and indirectly involved with the event. I added "charges" parameter and "arrests" parameter. But this is getting tricky if two of us can't agree which infobox shall be used. Call for RfC? [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 23:18, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::There are other editors who watch this page, so I'd like to just give a few days for them to comment if they want, before turning to an RfC. This issue certainly isn't an urgent one. But looking around, I quickly found these pages that use the person infobox: [[Suicide of Phoebe Prince]], [[Suicide of Dawn-Marie Wesley]], [[Suicide of Kelly Yeomans]], [[Suicide of Jadin Bell]], [[Suicide of Ryan Halligan]], [[Suicide of Megan Meier]], [[Suicide of Jamey Rodemeyer]], and [[Suicide of Nicola Ann Raphael]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:30, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::: Those pages aren't biography, yet "infobox person" is used. [[WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE]] says that infobox should be used to "summarize, not supplant, 'key' facts". I'm not confident that the usage of "infobox person" was reasonable, but you might interpret differently. [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 23:48, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::I think these ''are'' summaries of what is in the text. If an editor wanted to rename this page "Tyler Clementi" instead of "Suicide of...", I'd oppose that on the basis of it being about the event and not the person (and in fact this was a long-ago discussion that actually took place). But that pertains to notability and pagename, not the name of a template. Our readers do not even know what the names of templates are, and they don't care. What matters is what information we provide them with. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:56, 29 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::: What is a "key fact"? I always thought that key fact is anything relevant. Can a key fact be also less important? Does adding "cause" and "arrests" qualify as key facts? [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 00:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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:::::::Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:21, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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== Discussion that may be of interest == |
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{{outdent|7}} I'll rephrase. The "infobox person" contains just birth date, death date, education, cause of death, and occupation. My version of "infobox event" contains "location", "arrest(s)", "charges", "trial". I wish I would have fleshed it out by adding "verdict", "convictions", "sentence", and "notes" before the revert back to "infobox person", which doesn't allow further improvement as the infobox of the article. The "event" one has more well-known summarized facts than "person" does... unless you can counter what I was saying? [[User:George Ho|George Ho]] ([[User talk:George Ho|talk]]) 00:46, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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Editors who follow this and other "Suicide of" pages may perhaps be interested in [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 November 14#Category:Victims of school bullying]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:57, 16 November 2018 (UTC) |
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:I don't understand why you'd want to add parameters such as "verdict", "convictions", and "sentence". "Arrests", "charges", and "trial" (found in the version you saved before Tryptofish reverted) are already problematic, imo, because their connection to the ''event'' is an indirect one. Those would be appropriate for an article about a homicide. In an article about a suicide, they are potentially confusing. This may be a case of "if it ain't broke . . ." [[User:Rivertorch's Evil Twin|Rivertorch's Evil Twin]] ([[User talk:Rivertorch's Evil Twin|talk]]) 08:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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== "Died by" or "committed" suicide? == |
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::And now that I see George Ho's answer, my own response is very much the same as what Rivertorch has said. It really ain't broke. It sounds to me like the argument for changing to the event template is something like: the suicide was an event, so we must rigidly use the event template, and because we are using that template, we should look for parameters to fill in that are associated with it. In my opinion, that's the wrong approach. The right approach, I think, is to ask "what best serves the improvement of this page?". Our readers don't care what we name our templates. They care about the information that we provide. A change in infobox would have to be justified by showing that the information would be more useful to our readers. Here, it appears that it would actually be less useful. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC) |
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There was a Village Pump Request for Comment about the wording of suicides, archived at [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_164#RFC%3A_"Committed_suicide"_language]]. The RfC conclusion was that the terms used by the media should generally be followed, but that other formulations are acceptable. Whoever starts the article establishes the style. What is not acceptable is someone going around and changing the wording on multiple articles to fit their preference. I came here because [[Special:Contributions/207.206.228.56]] was doing exactly that: changing multiple articles to "committed suicide". |
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== Dispute == |
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The first version of this biography did not have the words "commit" or "committed". Various editors have inserted it, while others have removed it. I acknowledge that some media reports use the formulation "committed suicide", but other reports do not. It's a toss-up. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 17:46, 10 November 2021 (UTC) |
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I invite the IP user who is edit warring today to discuss their concerns here. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 12:20, 12 December 2016 (UTC) |
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:Please don't. The "lol" in their edit summary and the content of their edits are clear indications that they are simply trolling, and they've already been answered in a section above this one. [[User:Celia Homeford|Celia Homeford]] ([[User talk:Celia Homeford|talk]]) 13:10, 12 December 2016 (UTC) |
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::{{replyto|Celia Homeford}} Thanks for the clarification; I had posted this because to report them as an edit warrior they need to be given an opportunity to discuss the issue. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 13:30, 12 December 2016 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 20:07, 8 March 2024
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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Suicide of Tyler Clementi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130527220831/http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C to http://vanderplaatfuneral.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/97/runtime.php?SiteId=97&NavigatorId=15091&ListType=past&start=20&StartLetter=C
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110510014945/http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/29/police-probe-suicide-link-to-sex-tape-webcast-2-charged/ to http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/29/police-probe-suicide-link-to-sex-tape-webcast-2-charged/
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101002121042/http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-how-social-media-killed-tyler-clementi/19656326 to http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-how-social-media-killed-tyler-clementi/19656326
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101004013148/http://news.rutgers.edu/medrel/statements/2010/statement-of-preside-20101001 to http://news.rutgers.edu/medrel/statements/2010/statement-of-preside-20101001
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721213853/http://www.pointfoundation.org/scholarships/clementi.html to http://www.pointfoundation.org/scholarships/clementi.html
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120429191912/http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=331791 to http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=331791
- Added archive https://archive.is/20120630181634/http://www.sandiego.com/news/san-diego-schools-adopt-lgbt-resolution to http://www.sandiego.com/news/san-diego-schools-adopt-lgbt-resolution
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110325120142/http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/music/1467/ to http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/music/1467
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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Suicide of Tyler Clementi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121017154404/http://www.northjersey.com/news/104132029_Tragic_end_for_a_true_talent.html?page=all to http://www.northjersey.com/news/104132029_Tragic_end_for_a_true_talent.html?page=all
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130404190512/http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/tyler_clement_case/Testimony_to_resume_in_Rutgers_webcam_spying_trial.html?c=y&page=2 to http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/tyler_clement_case/Testimony_to_resume_in_Rutgers_webcam_spying_trial.html?c=y&page=2
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110712213844/http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/news/candlelight-vigil-held-in-response-to-recent-suicides-1.1670212 to http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/news/candlelight-vigil-held-in-response-to-recent-suicides-1.1670212
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101017021916/http://www.easternecho.com/index.php/m/article/2010/10/spirit_day_to_honor_recent_homosexual_suicide_victims to http://www.easternecho.com/index.php/m/article/2010/10/spirit_day_to_honor_recent_homosexual_suicide_victims
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Discussion that may be of interest
Editors who follow this and other "Suicide of" pages may perhaps be interested in Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 November 14#Category:Victims of school bullying. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:57, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
"Died by" or "committed" suicide?
There was a Village Pump Request for Comment about the wording of suicides, archived at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_164#RFC:_"Committed_suicide"_language. The RfC conclusion was that the terms used by the media should generally be followed, but that other formulations are acceptable. Whoever starts the article establishes the style. What is not acceptable is someone going around and changing the wording on multiple articles to fit their preference. I came here because Special:Contributions/207.206.228.56 was doing exactly that: changing multiple articles to "committed suicide".
The first version of this biography did not have the words "commit" or "committed". Various editors have inserted it, while others have removed it. I acknowledge that some media reports use the formulation "committed suicide", but other reports do not. It's a toss-up. Binksternet (talk) 17:46, 10 November 2021 (UTC)