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Japan: Shinto Start‑class High‑importance | ||||||||||||||||||||
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This article has been renamed from Jinja (Shinto) to Shinto shrine as the result of a move request.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was move to Shinto shrine. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 07:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Requested move
Jinja (Shinto) → Shinto shrine — Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). Furthermore, Shinto does not use the term jinja and the list of shrines are under the tilte List of Shinto shrines. Kusunose 05:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Survey
- Add # '''Support''' or # '''Oppose''' on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
Survey - Support votes
- Support as nominator. --Kusunose 05:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Support and this name left taisha in limbo anyway. Dekimasu 07:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Support — Use English names.--Endroit 08:34, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
A gaijin enquires
Shinto shrines do not have "a place for propagation"? You mean a bed? Something has gone wrong in this translation!Writtenright 22:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)Writtenright
- "Propagation" means "spreading the faith." See meaning b at Merriam-Webster. For an example of usage, see the article Society for the Propagation of the Faith. It may not be the exact word, but it's a lot more plausible than a bed. Fg2 02:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Would "proselytize" be better in the two places the article uses "propagate"? Whogue 00:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes, if it means proselytize, it should be changed. I just came to read this article and was going to leave a comment asking what in the blazes 'propogate' means in this context. I didn't think it had anything to do with reproducing, but that's how I first understood it so I was seriously confused. This usage of the term 'propogate' seems rather arcane and most readers are not going to get 'proselytize' out of it (I sure didn't). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.16.76.163 (talk) 23:35, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Please Help with Shinto Editing Wiki Page Chozusha
See Chozusha. Thanks in advance!--Sean-Jin 22:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Article title: Shinto shrine (no macron)
The word "Shinto" is English; it's in Merriam-Webster and Oxford with no macron. "Shintō" is the properly romanized form of the Japanese word but it is not English. Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Use English words states, "Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form." We should therefore use the English word "Shinto" (with no macron) in the article title and body text. Fg2 (talk) 22:48, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
About the article
I would like to junk almost the entire article and rewrite it from scratch because most of the material it contains now is I think unusable. Does anybody disagree? urashimataro (talk) 06:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- I would recommend creating one someplace like User:Urashimataro/Shinto shrine, then posting a note here once you are done with it. That will allow people to compare them and offer suggestions or comments. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: I would keep the list of national treasures, which is valuable. Besides, if you forge the lists, little of the original is left already. Nothing much would be lost. urashimataro (talk) 06:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- All of those Japanese ideographs add nothing to the article, and should be deleted en masse, and replaced with a phonetic description of each the sounds, and each of them should have an etymology whenever and wherever possible. 216.99.219.59 (talk) 00:38, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Types of shrine
In the first part of the article I say:
- This single English term however translates several, not always equivalent Japanese words, including jinja (神社, jinja) as in Yasukuni Jinja, yashiro (社, yashiro) as in Tsubaki Ōkami Yashiro, miya (宮, miya) as in Watarai no Miya, -gū (宮, -gū) as in Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū, jingū (神宮, jingū) as in Meiji Jingū, taisha (大社, taisha) as in Izumo Taisha and hokora/hokura (神庫) or mori (杜, mori?) as in the case of some special shrine buildings.
I do not specify the differences between the names because I do not know what they are with certainty. I know that a jungu enshrines an imperial family member but can't reference this fact reliably. If someone knows something about this, a paragraph on the subject would be much needed. urashimataro (talk) 05:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
The photo of Moto Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū shrine
The photo of Moto Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū shrine is thought that this image is improper to represent the Shinto shrine.
Please let me hear the reason to which the image of the oldest Shinto shrine (national treasure of Japan) in Japan that is the image that I arranged and the image of the Shinto shrine of World Heritage are improper. --663highland (talk) 07:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- I chose this image specifically because it consists of just the two elements that are necessary to a Shinto shrine: a shinden and a torii. It completes the description to its left and is part of it. This is why it's preferable to the photo of a great shrine. Please read the introduction, and you will see what I mean.
urashimataro (talk) 08:19, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- If it is such a reason, do not you think that Image:Tosa-jinja01s3872.jpg is appropriate than Image:Moto-Hachiman-the-whole-temple.jpg?--663highland (talk) 08:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- See User talk:Urashimataro#The photo of Moto Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū shrine —Preceding unsigned comment added by 663highland (talk • contribs) 00:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
commodities
I was wondering what kind of stuff there is to do at a Shinto jinja shrine. Is it true that they sell fortunes, talismans, prayers, and purifications? If not, how does the shrine owner make money? Thankyou. Jecowa (talk) 04:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC) Yes, it's true. All these things are on sale, and the shrine does make money selling them. The faithful also make donations, and pay for having kami transferred in objects they own. See Kanjō urashimataro (talk) 04:18, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
-I agree, there should be more about what one generally *does* at a Shinto shrine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.90.201 (talk) 06:30, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Capitalization of "shrine" in title
The common noun "shrine" should not be capitalized; neither "church" nor "temple" is. Only specific ones are capitalized; this article is not about a specific shrine. The Catholic Church is capitalized as an institution, not as a building. If there is or were to be an article on Catholic churches, "churches" would not be capitalized. So a lowercase "s" for "shrine" is analogous to churches and temples. Fg2 (talk) 10:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Revert
I reverted and edit by Muriemon. The edit summary here justifies the deletion of one sentence and its explicit, verifying inline citation with an assertion — "not fact"?
The cited support is in German —
- Hachiman ist eine der einflussreichsten japanischen Gottheiten und verfügt über ein Netzwerk von etwa 25.000 in ganz Japan verteilten Zweigschreinen. Er wurde ursprünglich in Kyushu (im Usa Hachiman-gū) verehrt, aber schon in der Nara- und Heian-Zeit verlagerte sich das Zentrum seines Kults zuerst nach Nara, dann nach Kyoto (Iwashimizu Hachiman-gū). Die Hachiman Schreine von Usa und Kyoto gelten daher als die Hauptschreine Hachimans. Noch populärer und historisch ebenso bedeutsam ist jedoch der Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū in Kamakura ... und u.a. für einen über 700 Jahre alten Ginkgo Baum bekannt.
This is a rough Google-translated version of the German text —
- Hachiman is one of the most influential Japanese deities and has a network of about 25,000 shrines throughout Japan distributed in class. He was originally in Kyushu (in the Usa Hachiman-gū) worshiped, but already in the Nara and Heianera shifted the center of his cult at first to Nara, then to Kyoto (Iwashimizu Hachiman-gū). The Usa Hachiman shrines of Kyoto and are therefore considered as the main Hachiman shrines. Even more popular and historically as important, however, the Tsurugaoka Hachiman-gū in Kamakura ... and include a 700-year-old ginkgo tree known.
The Austrian web site is wrong about the tree -- see here. I hope the tree does survive, despite being uprooted in March here. With regret, I have to accept that this ancient ginkgo tree no longer lives; but otherwise, the disputed paragraph is correct.
This revert is informed by WP:V which explains, The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. In this instance, the revert is not inconsistent with WP:RS. The site's relationship with Institut für Ostasienkunde der Universität Wien (Institute of East Asian Studies at the University of Vienna) seems relevant. --Tenmei (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
- I agree with the revert. The site was written by Bernhard Scheid, who isn't just anybody. He is a Japanologist of worldwide reputation. If Muriemon wants to delete this sentence he'd better support his decision with facts.Frank (Urashima Tarō) (talk) 20:15, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- I have re-written the disputed sentence narrowly here. In my view, this version more closely mirrors the cited text. In addition, I created Bernhard Scheid to help clarify credibility of the academic website source. I hope this helps move towards a constructive resolution of any unstated issues. --Tenmei (talk) 03:15, 13 June 2010 (UTC)