Phoenix7777 (talk | contribs) m moved Talk:Pinnacle Islands to Talk:Senkaku Islands over redirect: revert |
Phoenix7777 (talk | contribs) →Page move: reverted |
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::: Thanks joe for the help. hope the current title will permanently settle this issue. --[[User:Winstonlighter|Winstonlighter]] ([[User talk:Winstonlighter|talk]]) 15:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC) |
::: Thanks joe for the help. hope the current title will permanently settle this issue. --[[User:Winstonlighter|Winstonlighter]] ([[User talk:Winstonlighter|talk]]) 15:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC) |
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::::I'm sure it will be solved at least as much as the [[Liancourt Rocks]] issue. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]]<sup>[[Help:Installing Japanese character sets|?]]</sup> · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<font color="maroon">Join WikiProject Japan</font>]]!</small> 15:44, 8 September 2010 (UTC) |
::::I'm sure it will be solved at least as much as the [[Liancourt Rocks]] issue. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkgreen">日本穣</font>]]<sup>[[Help:Installing Japanese character sets|?]]</sup> · <small>[[Special:Contributions/Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">投稿</font>]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] · [[WP:JA|<font color="maroon">Join WikiProject Japan</font>]]!</small> 15:44, 8 September 2010 (UTC) |
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Please move the article by [[WP:Requested moves]] for a controversial move. |
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It is clear the most common name is "Senkaku Islands". The following are the result of Google book search: |
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*"Senkaku Islands": [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=Senkaku+Islands&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=100&lr=lang_en&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images#hl=en&num=100&lr=lang_en&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=bks:1&source=og&q=%22Senkaku%20Islands%22&sa=N&tab=wp&fp=42b734c4058bf708 11,000] |
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*"Diaoyutai Islands": [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=Diaoyutai+Islands&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=100&lr=lang_en&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images#hl=en&num=100&lr=lang_en&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=bks:1&source=og&q=%22Diaoyutai%20Islands%22&sa=N&tab=wp&fp=42b734c4058bf708 1,100] |
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*"Pinnacle Islands": [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=Pinnacle+Islands&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=100&lr=lang_en&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images#hl=en&num=100&lr=lang_en&ft=i&cr=&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=bks:1&source=og&q=%22Pinnacle%20Islands%22&sa=N&tab=wp&fp=42b734c4058bf708 374] |
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―― [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 00:57, 9 September 2010 (UTC) |
Revision as of 00:57, 9 September 2010
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Page move
I have revered the page move from Senkaku Islands to Diaoyutai Islands. While the mover gave the comment "no objections on the move". I see no recent discussion per WP:RM and previous one Talk:Senkaku Islands/Archive 3#Requested move resulted to stay at Senkaku Islands. --Kusunose 23:03, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
- I asked for comments at here and there's no comments for 15 days, plus the link you pointed took place more than 2 years ago. The move is based on WP:COMMONNAME, as shown by # of Google results for those 2 terms and also by various governments not involved in the dispute. OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- You mean "Citation needed"? A wrong title, I should say. It's unnoticeable. The section title should have been "Page move request". Oda Mari (talk) 04:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- My first point was still valid, as I first did ask for more citation before deciding to to add a move request along. OhanaUnitedTalk page 05:05, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- You mean "Citation needed"? A wrong title, I should say. It's unnoticeable. The section title should have been "Page move request". Oda Mari (talk) 04:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I believe Senkaku Islands is better in terms of WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NCGN and WP:NCON. For # of Google hits, my search does not agree with your observation, for "Senkaku Islands" [1] (26,400 pages) outnumbered "Diaoyutai Islands" (6,850 pages)[2]. In any case, Search engine test is hardly conclusive; see also WP:NCGN#Search engine issues for problems for foreign geographic names.
WP:Naming conflict suggest some other methods for determining the common name. For reference works, Columbia Encyclopedia and Encarta uses Senkaku Islands (on Britannca, search for Diaoyutai and Senkaku produses no hits). For international organisations, this is a page hosted on un.org about a report authored by UN. Secretary-General and China; it says "concerning Diaoyu island" in the summary but it uses "SENKAKU ISLANDS" in subjects for classification. I also remember the United Nations Cartographic Section used "Senkaku Islands" in List of Territories but both links are currently not available. --Kusunose 08:45, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- I went to you the 3 UN links you pointed. The latter 2 links, as you mentioned, are dead and cannot verify your claims. The first you you provided[3], did you even bother to check the contents, not just the title/summary of the pdf, to ensure that it supports your argument? When I click on the link to English on that page,[4] the pdf opens a UN document that supports my viewpoint. You just gave us reference that contradict your own views (facepalm). OhanaUnitedTalk page 23:02, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- CIA Factbook uses Senkaku Shoto. Select Japan and see the map. And CNN site search result is 255 Senkaku Islands and 155 Diaoyu Islands Oda Mari (talk) 04:56, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
- The document itself is authored by China and it naturally supports the Chinese point of view. I'm aware of that. My point is that the UN's indexing/categorization system uses Senkaku Islands over Diaoyutai or Daiyou Islands, recognizes it as a common/standard name. --Kusunose 12:18, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
I added a tag as even the title of the article is not npov.andycjp (talk) 12:35, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- I'm suspicious over the claim that the UN endorses Senakaku as a common name. The UN doesn't seem to take a position in this contentious topic. Kusunose, could you provide more details on it?
- While the Columbia Encyclopedia filed the article under "Senkaku", it clearly mentions different common names for those disputed islands and I don't see the Columbia takes any position in suggesting which one is more common. In international media, it seems to be more common to use both diaoyu and senkaku interchangeably. BBC simply tag the island with "Diaoyu/Senkaku" on the map[5].
- While it is true that the search result, which shows 245,000 results on Diaoyu islands[6] and 47,700 on senkaku islands[7], doesn't mean that diaoyu is more common than senkaku, it hardly supports senkaku is a common name too.
- According to WP:Name, the encyclopedic article titles are expected to exhibit the highest degree of neutrality. Wikipedia is not a place for nationalists to claim disputed islands and I don't see either senkaku or diaoyutai will achieve the required degree of neutrality. I suggest moving the article to Pinnacle Islands until there is a other better neutral choice.
--Winstonlighter (talk) 13:29, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- If you're going to do moves like this, please make sure you are doing it correctly. You moved the article to Pinnacle islands (lowercase "i") when it should have been Pinnacle Islands (capital "I"). You also didn't check the box to move all the talk archives as well, so they became inaccessible after the move. These issues have now been fixed as I've move the article to the correct title and moved the talk archives. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 15:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks joe for the help. hope the current title will permanently settle this issue. --Winstonlighter (talk) 15:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- I'm sure it will be solved at least as much as the Liancourt Rocks issue. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 15:44, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks joe for the help. hope the current title will permanently settle this issue. --Winstonlighter (talk) 15:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- If you're going to do moves like this, please make sure you are doing it correctly. You moved the article to Pinnacle islands (lowercase "i") when it should have been Pinnacle Islands (capital "I"). You also didn't check the box to move all the talk archives as well, so they became inaccessible after the move. These issues have now been fixed as I've move the article to the correct title and moved the talk archives. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 15:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Please move the article by WP:Requested moves for a controversial move. It is clear the most common name is "Senkaku Islands". The following are the result of Google book search:
―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:57, 9 September 2010 (UTC)