Sarah Palin was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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Xty
she joined something called the Assembly of God. I heard this on an interview with Nick Broomfield. he said she believes a weird kind of Old Testament based, apocalyptic - y version of Xty. also that Rupert Murdoch backs her. and that she only lets herself be questioned by pre-arranged interviewers. thats all i sought to add. I was not trolling tarc - or is this page only open for right wing editors? if they are facts, what broomfield mentioned, they are facts. thats it. Sayerslle (talk) 20:59, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- This edit is redundant and unsourced. We already cover her religious beliefs in the 'Personal life' section complete with many sources. This edit adds nothing of any real value to the article. Who cares how many churches Wasalla has? How many basketball goals do they have? How many book stores? Its irrelevant in an article about Palin. Similarly the line "She was part of a clique called The Assembly of God", unsourced, irrelevant, and out of context to say the least. The part of this edit that reads "She is backed by Rupert Murdoch and will only agree to be interviewed by pre-appointed questioners. is also unsourced, out of place, incoherent and vague to say the least. For at least those reasons I oppose your edits.
- Further, discussing your edits is not merely a box you check off before (re)adding contentious materials as you seem to imply by [this] edit summary(ok -ive talked about it on talk- now please stop censoring every edit). You must actually work with your fellow editors to seek consensus, not merely put something in talk and re-add the same material that was objected to. Moreover, calling your fellow editors 'idiots' [1], and crying 'fascist sensorship' [2]is unhelpful, to say the least. Bonewah (talk) 23:36, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see what was 'incoherent and vague' about the sentence you described that way - it is coherent and very clear,I don't see why the assembly of god stuff is in a personal life section way down the article and not in the early biography section where it chronologically belongs, that doesnt say when, which year, she got reborn into the apocalyptic /evangelical/old testament based xtian sect, and her Xty is so important to her and all, - what's 'unhelpful' is a clique making the article crap - not 'fellow editors' - a clique. Anyway reading the anodyne lead ,it is ultra -boring , and notes in a not very npov-y way how popular some tv programe she made was , 'the biggest viewership blah blah' - no mention is made of something else Nick Broomfield said - she is very unpopular in Wasilla - most politicians are most popular in their heartlands -with palin , where she is best known , she is least popular - anyway, it makes for very boring reading, the stifling of info by the clique. when i've seen the film i'll try and add some sourced facts for the article. Sayerslle (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
- Typical sort of moronic expostulation that expresses the mentality of the clique that controls the sarah palin article. he is a film-maker ok who has just completed a film (You betcha) about her, and spoken to people who knew her growing up. says she has a very vindictive nature, based on his interviews, that theres such a weird form of Xty at play in her life that she developed different personalities , like speaking about xty and being highly vindictive at the same time kind of thing,that a kind of omerta surrounds her, which you sort of exemplify i guess, intimidation, - who the heck is fcreid ? Sayerslle (talk) 07:31, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
- I'm really a reasonable guy, I believe, with a demonstrated record of facilitating compromise here. I can tell you upfront that your response to my simple question won't move you towards your goal. Nothing you've provided indicates Broomfield is anything more than just another person hoping to make a buck by publishing contentious or salacious material about another person whom he's never actually met... ironically, a person whose fame and public interest is already rapidly waning. Nothing you've introduced here is new material. In fact, it wasn't new more than two and half years ago when it was dredged from the bowels of the scant reliable documentation. That alone is amazing. Given that you've had virtually free rein in providing any reliable source for Broomfield's claims, one would expect the claims would be at least topical or entertaining. In addition, I've gone through prior (and RELIABLE) sources on her affiliation with the Pentecostal church, and I see no mention of the term "xty". A quick Google for "xty" and "Palin" finds nothing relevant. That also makes me suspect. Is "xty" a term you're forwarding from some personal agenda, or is that term directly from the Broomfield film? My recommendation is that, unless Broomfield is providing factual evidence that Palin and her "xty" cult were sacrificing goats and drinking their blood or something, the bare facts already in this biography satisfy any requirements for salient information on Palin's religious beliefs. Perhaps there's another article where Broomfield's revelations on Palin, despite never having met her, will be more relevant. Fcreid (talk) 00:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- Xty is a quick way of writing Christianity - i wasn't suggesting any 'revelations' from the film-maker, merely interesting observations about the nature of her beliefs and personal political style from those who have seen her up close over the years. if she has been noted to have a vindictive nature - that that has been commented on, then that could be mentioned in the lead, it adds colour - and can balance the flattering, and thoroughly trivial imo for the lead, noting of her telly programme breaking records for some channel or other. your 'simple question' was actually spluttered in a splenetic way meant to be denigratory to broomfield imo, thats how i read it , you saying how reasonable you are - i dunno - self praise is no praise , thats what they say. Sayerslle (talk) 00:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- I find the "xty" abbreviation a bit bizarre, to be honest. I can't envision a discussion so hung up on religion that short-form terms of reference would be needed. For comparative purposes, what abbreviations do you use for other religions, e.g. Islam, Judaism, etc.? As far as Broomfield's "documentary", and back to the point of inclusion of his opinionated commentary in this article, it's unfortunate that Broomfield flourished such an obvious axe to grind when he started on this venture. Read [this Guardian article] and his own quoted remarks. Do those comments represent someone you would entrust with an objective research project? He actually ignored dozens of documented, firsthand witnesses to Palin's pregnancy, and instead he ferreted out some loon who claimed to have given Palin a belly rub during the time frame of her pregnancy and concluded she was not pregnant. He would actually have included that in his film, had it not been that none of her "witnesses" to the event would even attest to her story. In particular, note his blatantly partisan commentary throughout the interview, and the fact that he resorted to heckling her at public events because she wouldn't meet him in person for an interview. I'm sorry, but I've seen nothing about this "documentary" that even approaches the threshold for inclusion in a Wikipedia biography. Perhaps you could find actual reliable sources for those points you want to make. Fcreid (talk) 01:58, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- The article you point to speaks of the cumulative impact of so many damning voices , people who know her ..did you read it? - and she said shed speak to him then changed her mind so he had to shout his questions - she lied to him - "unless you're Fox News, palin is off-limits" -your tone is a bit like you are going to decide what is allowed to be included in the article - if friends, priests, etc who knew her say interesting things in the documentary then that would seem to be ok - i think you are part of a gang here at this article - not a reasonable gang - a gang. the guardian journalist " the testimony he [broomfield] gathers bring into focus a woman so frightening that You Betchas closest cinematic relative may well be the Omen " - no wonder her clique here are so frightening also Sayerslle (talk) 02:27, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- You're free to conclude whatever you like about me, the article or the conspiracy of an elusive Palin cabal who guard it. However, your personal opinions on any of that do not obviate WP policy for peer review of contentious material being added to a BLP, and I maintain that this alleged documentary, comprised of nothing but hearsay and anecdotes from those with an axe to grind, does not even closely approach the threshold of being reliably-sourced content for any BLP. I've participated in this article for two and a half years now, and I know full-well that Palin is a divisive character. Personally, while I can't explain the phenomenon, which I contend is largely media-made, I'm very glad to see her withering from the national limelight. I've seen an unending litany of Palin sycophants and haters come here, hoping to paint a hagiography or to grind their axes. Some were oblivious to the fact that others watch for such things and, in good faith, revert and steer new arrivals to talk. Some become arrogant when they learn their desired content doesn't reach the bar for inclusion. Some go away unhappy. Others stick around in talk to make their cases and to refine their content. In the end, some win and some lose, and all of that is just another typical day on the Palin page. It is what it is. Fcreid (talk) 09:29, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- Quotes from those who watched her grow up, do not 'even closely approach the threshold of being reliably sourced content for any BLP' ? what are you on about? anyway,i don't see for such a rule lover , your 'i've seen a litany of palin sycophants and haters ..' blah blah exhibits the much vaunted agf attitude - i don't have an axe to grind - i want articles that are interesting to read, that suggest a complexity of personality, and complexity of response to a personality etc - you are a pompous ass -i'm hoping to see the film soon and then i'll decide if any quotes from those who knew/know her are pertinent for the article - then you can come and cleanse the article. and that 'i don't even like the woman' - how super-unconvincing is that? 'the lady doth protest too much' - Sayerslle (talk) 12:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- The biggest thing is good sourcing. Palin is not some obscure figure, information about her life is plentiful and so good sourcing is a must. Ive never seen or heard of Nick Broomfield until today, so ill hold off on judging the reliability of him as an encyclopedia source, but you should expect people to ask for independent, high quality sources for any dramatic claims. Bonewah (talk) 00:31, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously, I'm a conservative. I'm up-front about this on my userpage so anybody can be aware where I'm coming from. I'm far from perfect, but I try to be as neutral as possible in my editing, which is why I have been one of the strongest protectors at the Brady Campaign article protecting it from editors that use original research to classify them as a hate group. As a firearms instructor I certainly don't agree with their stance, but there is no reliable sources stating that they meet the definition of a hate group, so that does not belong in Wikipedia. There appears to be an issue here with Sayerslle simply not understanding what the purpose of Wikipedia is and what our limitations are (I'd also recommend a strong dose of assuming good faith). First things first, this is not a place to add opinion and we are not a random collection of facts. Second, when it comes to biographies of living persons, any living person, the Wikipedia rules are extremely strict. Among other things, the policy clearly states "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous." Finally, when a topic is controversial for whatever reason and that article is placed on probation (which this one is), the policy explicitly reads "The community has placed this article on article probation as specified at Talk:Sarah Palin/Article probation. Any addition of content that is not properly sourced, does not conform to Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, or is defamatory will be promptly removed. In addition, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia should you persist in such actions." Editors are responsible for knowing these policies, and if they are unaware, they are responsible for abiding by them once they are informed of them. SeanNovack (talk) 14:38, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
- its not a film of Broomfield just giving his OR opinion about palin - there appears to be an issue here of sean not understanding that as a documentary film-maker Broomfield has actually spoken to people who knew her growing up - her father i think, and a pastor etc - OR doesn't come into it; hopefully it will be as entertaining and informative as his film on Heidi Fleiss was. Sayerslle (talk) 15:24, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Some suggested additions and alterations
In the section titled "Governor of Alaska" after the line "She signed the resulting legislation in July 2007, calling it a "first step," and declaring that she remained determined to clean up Alaska politics.[83]" I think the addition of the following information would be useful.
- Palin uses a rhetoric of maternalism in politics that harkens back to the idea of “social housekeeping” in First Wave Feminism where female political activists use traditional roles of women such as cleaning and apply them to the political world in an effort to combat corruption associated with politics. Palin puts a motherly spin on the wording she chooses to use often criticizing the “Good ole Boys” idea of politics arguing that it has lead to corruption. She puts emphasis on looking at the future of America and not leaving a mess for “our children” to clean up.
Another useful addition to this section would be after the line "Proposals to drill for oil in ANWR have been the subject of a national debate.[87]" I suggest adding:
- Palin promotes drilling in Alaska as a way of stopping foreign oil dependence, but also argued for pursuing all forms of energy production. Iin Her a speech to the GOP convention? speech in 2008, Palin stated,
“Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America's energy problems — as if we all didn't know that already. But the fact that drilling won't solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all. Starting in January, in a McCain-Palin administration, we're going to lay more pipelines ... build more nuclear plants ... create jobs with clean coal ... and move forward on solar, wind, geothermal and other alternative sources.” [332]
In the section titled "Resignation" after the line "Palin and her husband Todd had personally incurred more than $500,000 in legal fees defending against ethics charges brought against her as governor.[176]" I suggest that the following is added.
- Palin placed much of the blame for the “frivolous” ethics complaints upon the mainstream media saying, “You represent what could and should be a cornerstone of our democracy, [...] Democracy depends on you, and that is why—that’s why our troops are willing to die for you. So how about in honor of the American soldier, you quit makin’ things up.” [330] In an effort to combat some of the accusations surrounding her, Palin used Facebook and Twitter postings to “bypass the press” and demonstrate her point of view rather that the depiction that the media was providing. Despite her portrayal of her resignation as being best for Alaska in light of the controversy surrounding accusations against her, many saw her resignation as opportunistic. Scott Conroy and Shushannah Walshe, in their book Sarah from Alaska: the Sudden Rise and Brutal Education of a New Conservative Superstar, assert that “pPresiding over Alaska had become difficult, dull, and unfulfilling. Resigning to travel the country without the burden of a day job would be relatively easy, invigorating, and both personally and financially rewarding.” [330]
In the section titled "After the 2008 election" after the line "The organization, which describes itself as an advocate of energy independence,[219] supports candidates for federal and state office.[220]" I suggest that the following be added:
- The website for SarahPAC states, “SarahPAC believes energy independence is a cornerstone of the economic security and progress that every American family wants and deserves. We believe in American Exceptionalism, and that US foreign policy should, first and foremost, be based on the pursuit of our national interest, not the interests of others.” [331]
In the section the "Tea Party Movement" I suggest that the following be deleted from the page because it does not have proper citation, and a source cannot be found.
- Palin’s speaking fee was reported to be $100,000. Judson Phillips, the founder of Tea Party Nation, the social networking site that sponsored the convention, did not confirm the amount paid to Palin saying he was contractually obligated not to speak about it.[citation needed]
Also in this section I suggest that the following be added after the line “The Tea Party movement is bigger than any one person and is not about any one candidate.”[246]
- Palin also related the rise of the Tea Party Movement to the “sons of liberty during the revolution,” and to the “Abolitionists before the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement during the 20th Century” saying, “The Tea Party Movement is part of this noble American tradition. This movement isn’t simply a political awakening; it’s an American awakening. And it’s coming from ordinary Americans, not the politicos in the Beltway. No, it’s you who grow our food; you run our small businesses; you teach our children; you fight our wars. We are always proud of America. We love our country in good times and in bad, and we never apologize for America.” [331] Palin attacks the controversial speech made by President Obama at Strasborg Town Hall meeting in France where he says that America “has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive." [334]
Under the section "Pink Elephant Movement" I suggest that the following is deleted because a source cannot be found for it
- According to Politico, Palin's criteria for endorsing candidates was whether they had the support of the Tea Party movement and the support of the Susan B. Anthony List.[254]
In the same section after the line "Palin's influence over the primaries nonetheless further increased speculation that she would seek to be the party's nominee for President in 2012,[262] with political pundits Paul Mirengoff, David Frum, and Jonathan Chait identifying Palin as the front-runner.[263][264][265]" I suggest that the following is added:
- In the primary campaigns for the 2012 election Palin endorsed Michele Bachmann in the running for the presidency and remains a supporter of Bachmann on her SarahPAC website. [331]
I also suggest that a new section on Feminism should be added:
- Palin on Feminism
During Palin’s vice presidential campaign and after, circulation of the question “is she or isn’t she a feminist?” has been a recurring theme. On the issue Palin herself, during an interview with Katie Couric said, "I'm a feminist who, uh, believes in equal rights and I believe that women certainly today have every opportunity that a man has to succeed, and to try to do it all, anyway.”[336] However, when Palin was on NBC News with Brian Williams, she gave an indifferent answer when asked if she was a Feminist. To Williams Palin said, “I’m not gonna label myself anything, Brian,… And I think that’s what annoys a lot of Americans, especially in a political campaign, is to start trying to label different parts of America different, different backgrounds, different . . . I’m not going to put a label on myself.” [335] There are opposing viewpoints on why Palin has been flaunting the Feminist label at times and refusing it at others. One is that the label is merely a tactic to gain support from women who would otherwise vote more liberally, about the use of Feminist language, an opinion article from the Washington Post states, “conservatives are trying to sell anti-women policies shrouded in pro-women rhetoric.” [337] However, Palin asserts that she is promoting a new Feminist Movement centered on Conservative Feminist issues like anti-abortion and protecting children. In the keynote speech that Palin did for the Susan B. Anthony List she said, “It’s an emerging conservative feminist identity. For too long, when people heard the word ‘feminist,’ they thought of the faculty lounge at some East Coast women’s college, right. And no offense to them: They have their opinions and their voice, and God bless them. That’s great. But that’s not the only voice of women in America.” [338] Although some question her intentions and integrity on the matter, Palin claims the Conservative Feminist label and pushes forward with her “mamma grizzly,” and “Pink Elephant” movements.
Under the section "Personal Life" after the line "Palin's youngest child, Trig, was prenatally diagnosed with Down syndrome.[280]" I suggest that the following is added:
- During her 2008 GOP Speech Palin stated, “To the families of special-needs children all across this country, I have a message: For years, you sought to make America a more welcoming place for your sons and daughters. I pledge to you that if we are elected, you will have a friend and advocate in the White House.” [332] Since the birth of her son Trig, Palin has served as an advocate for special needs children and their families.
Under the section Political Positions I suggest that the following points be added: Energy • Palin supports energy independence from foreign countries and promotes energy sources such as nuclear, solar, wind and geothermal. She is also an advocate of clean coal and U.S. gas pipelines. [332] Fiscal Policy • Palin is a supporter of the Free Market, and fiscal restraint. She believes in the autonomy of the private sector and is pro-limited government. [331]
The following are the references for the information I have suggested:
- 330. Conroy, Scott, and Shushannah Walshe. Sarah from Alaska: the Sudden Rise and Brutal Education of a New Conservative Superstar. New York: Public Affairs, 2009. P. 263-264. Print.
- 331. SarahPAC - Sarah Palin's Official PAC. UPSTREAM. Web. 22 Nov. 2011. <http://www.sarahpac.com>.
- 332. "Transcript: Gov. Sarah Palin At The RNC : NPR." NPR : National Public Radio : News & Analysis, World, US, Music & Arts : NPR. PBS, 3 Sept. 2008. Web. 22 Nov. 2011. <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94258995>.
- 333. Sarah Palin in New Hampshire. Perf. Sarah Palin. CNN, 2011. YouTube. 5 Sept. 2011. Web. 5 Nov. 2011. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiU-GluH5ac&feature=related>.
- 334. "Remarks by President Obama at Strasbourg Town Hall." The White House. USA.gov, 3 Apr. 2009. Web. 22 Nov. 2011. <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-President-Obama-at-Strasbourg-Town-Hall/>.
- 335. Barrett, Kate. "Palin’s Switcheroo on Feminism - ABC News." ABCNews.com: Daily News, Breaking News and Video Broadcasts - ABC News. ABC, 24 Oct. 2008. Web. 06 Dec. 2011. <http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2008/10/palins-switcher/>.
- 336. Couric, Katie. "Palin Opens Up On Controversial Issues - CBS News." Breaking News Headlines: Business, Entertainment & World News - CBS News. CBS, 2 June 2010. Web. 06 Dec. 2011. <http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/30/eveningnews/main4490618.shtml>.
- 337. "Opinion: The Fake Feminism of Sarah Palin." Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis. The Washington Post, 30 May 2010. Web. 06 Dec. 2011. <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/28/AR2010052802263_2.html?sid=ST2010062204464>.
- 338. Starr, Penny. "Palin Says She Connects to 'Tough, Gun-Toting, Pioneer Feminism'" CNS News Online. CNS, 14 May 2010. Web. 6 Dec. 2011. <http://cnsnews.com/news/article/palin-says-she-connects-tough-gun-toting-pioneer-feminism>.
Julietdarcy (talk) 06:24, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
- I think all in all it sounds reasonable - couple of question. 1) Do you have another source for the 2012 Michele Bachmann presidential endorsement? I know that Palin endorsed her for Congress in 2010 but hadn't seen any source that says she endorsed Bachmann for 2012. 2) Just curious, why are verbal pauses like "uh" included in quotes? I haven't seen this done for any other national politician. Kelly hi! 18:30, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
potential resource
Republicans for Revolution January 12, 2012 The New York Review of Books by Mark Lilla regarding The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Sarah Palin (by Corey Robin, publisher Oxford University Press)
See Conservatism in the United States and Reactionary 99.181.147.68 (talk) 05:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
- Does it have sufficient new biographical information not found currently in the BLP? Collect (talk) 12:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Article Correction: Sarah Palin's Granddaughter's Name
I don't really know how to submit corrections, but I was recently reading this article and noticed an error with the spelling of Palin's granddaughter's name. Under the "Personal Life" subheading, the article says, ". . . and a girl named Kayla Grace Palin, who was born to son Track and his wife, Britta, in 2011." The spelling of her granddaughter's first name is Kyla, not Kayla. The source of this information spells it correctly (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/08/sarah-palin-grandmother-again-son-track-baby-kayla) although the web address spells it incorrectly. It is also verifiable on Todd Palin's 2012 Iron Dog Pro Class Team Profile and Biography (http://www.irondograce.org/race-tracking/2012-pro-class/teams/?team=10 . Please consider correcting this error. Thank you! 72.1.111.41 (talk) 00:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)