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Previous discussion on quoting Jeong's tweets failed to reach consensus, which effectively means to exclude the disputed material. Closing thread which has devolved into tit-for-tat. Nothing new here. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 03:36, 30 September 2019 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
It seems a lot of this page dances around the offensiveness of her comments and NYT silent support or lack of care about her comments.
Her Tweets are public domain for anyone to see - wouldn't it enrich the article and dialogue and better inform the reader to let them know she said:
- "Oh man, it’s kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men.”
- "Caucasians were “only fit to live underground like groveling goblins.”"
- "Dumbass fucking white people"
- "#CancelWhitePeople"[1]
If similar tweets were made by white supremacists/nationalists wouldn't wiki writers use this as proof of their status and be labeled as such in opening of page and categories on bottom? Rsarlls (talk) 15:09, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why don't you go ask on some talk pages for white supremacists and nationalists instead of wasting the time of editors here rehashing stupid arguments? --JBL (talk) 15:28, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
JBL are you always this dismissive and nasty? The prior discussion around this topic was "settled" due to non agreement, yet here again she is hitting the news for coming off the NYT Board which is again tied to her Twitter utterances - yet a reader of the page would lack the ability to see the material without going to Google or Twitter - seems to defeat the purpose of a proper and thorough Wiki page. Rsarlls (talk) 20:45, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am indeed deeply dismissive of posts that begin by repeated stupid arguments on settled topics and end with insinuations of hypocrisy based on nothing. If you would like to be treated respectfully, you can begin by treating with respect the previous editors of this page and the fact of an established consensus. (While consensus can change, it does not change by repetition of an argument identical in all respects to the one that has been rejected, without any acknowledgement or understanding of why that happened.) --JBL (talk) 20:54, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"stupid arguments on settled topics" - pretty superior and imperious tone, don't you think? "insinuations of hypocrisy" - wow that's like you're taking this personally. Guess that continues to explain and reconfirm why wiki editor and pageview numbers continue to shrink. Enjoy your shrinking ghetto.Rsarlls (talk) 21:06, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Always nice to have first impressions confirmed. --JBL (talk) 21:32, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Why is Sangdeboeuf acting as the self-appointed arbitrator of which discussions are worth continuing? This one was closed prematurely. Consensus can change and it is inappropriate for users advocating for a certain side to be so heavily moderating talk page activity. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 18:56, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion should not have been closed. Regardless, it doesn't seem worth going through the bureaucracy to re-open it. Instead, I think that all editors on this page should continue to discuss the matter. As I noted earlier, consensus can change. Consensus may well have been wrong. The tweets appear WP:DUE given (1) the extensive coverage of them in reliable sources and (2) the fact that they are a significantly noteworthy facet of her public profile and (3) it's difficult to understand the controversy without at least a single direct reference. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 00:35, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus does not change by stubbornly repeating exactly the same arguments that have been roundly and repeatedly rejected before. Also, knock of the groundless assumptions of bad faith and personal attacks: this thread (to which Sdb did not contribute) lacks anything meaningful and deserved to be closed; no one is preventing you from starting a different one. --JBL (talk) 01:34, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, that is not a valid reason to close a discussion. Only if there is a clear and overwhelming consensus and the conversation has been open for a long period of time does it make sense to close a discussion. I see reasonable arguments being made as to why inclusion of the tweets is justified. If you or Sangdeboeuf disagree on the merits, it is appropriate to respond but not close the discussion. This seems more like an attempt to stifle disagreement than encourage a robust discussion. That type of behavior is disruptive and an abuse of the closure tool. But let's stick to the topic at hand, which is the inclusion of the language of the tweets. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
First, you should not be closing discussions at all given your non-neutral involvement in this thread. Second, consensus can and often is wrong or can be right at one time but wrong at another. That could be because a) a few highly opinionated editors overtook the discussion or not enough were involved, b) facts/reporting/situational changes in the real world regarding the subject, 3) availability of new sources or other information. I don't see a "widely held view" that the tweets should not be included. Bottom line: You should a) stop closing conversations, b) stop misusing oversight tools available to non-admins. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 03:39, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't involved at all until you started accusing me of acting inappropriately. If you think I've abused editing privileges, WP:ANI is thataway. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:09, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You should be willing to correct your behavior without intervention. If not, I have no problem going that route. Cheers. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 13:39, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To your suggestion that you "were not involved." The archives of this talk page indicate you have been extensively involved in discussion about content on this page related to the tweets/racism accusations controversy. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 15:37, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
First, you should not be closing discussions at all given your non-neutral involvement in this thread. "This thread" does not mean any and all past discussions about the same or similar issues. Either take this WP:CONDUCTDISPUTE to the appropriate forum, or stop wasting everyone's time. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:57, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Conservative media
the article says that Jeong was criticised in "conservative media". the reference for this seems to be the BBC, NYT and the Guardian. These don't seem like conservative media to me.
Can the claim be support by actual reference to conservative media or likewise, since left wing/centrist media also ran the story, just remove the word "conservative"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebefl (talk • contribs) 11:42, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, we use secondary sources here, not primary sources. All three references make very clear the sources of the criticism: far-right blog, those on the right, mainly conservative social media, Conservative critics, etc. --JBL (talk) 12:42, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relevant past discussions are available here, here, and here. --JBL (talk) 13:04, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
One of the things that really jumped out at me about this page is this sentence: "Editors at The Verge defended Jeong, saying that the tweets had been disingenuously taken out of context." This is, strictly speaking, true! But then, look at The Verge's actual statement. They make the claim... but never provide the slightest justification or example. How? How were they taken out of context? Similarly -- satire? I've been a writer and editor all my life. Where is the /satire/ in Jeong's tweets? Try this experiment: Suppose a white person wrote: "Dumbass f****** [insert ethnic group] marking up the internet like dogs pissing on fire hydrants" -- and then later claimed it was "satire." Would that be accepted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.237.107.58 (talk) 23:15, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Naomi Wu
Sarah was invoiced in a huge controversy by Doxxing a Chinese women on Vice, and according to the victim breaching their written agreement etc
I hope there are reliable sources beyond the victim's own blog Jazi Zilber (talk) 10:54, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This has been discussed several times before [1][2][3] and no one has yet put forward any independent, reliable sources for this incident. Hoping, etc. won't change that, unfortunately. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 11:07, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
These are all obviously terrible sources; the idea that someone would propose using any one of them as a source in a Wikipedia article is somewhere between absurd and terrifying. --JBL (talk) 13:00, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
arcdigital.media is alternative media which does have editors. Are you saying that all alternative media shouldn't be used as a source for Wikipedia articles? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:19, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am saying that if you can't understand why "The internet’s best opinion page" isn't a RS for contentious factual claims in BLPs, you shouldn't be editing biographies on Wikipedia. --JBL (talk) 14:26, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It has come up on WP:RSN twice: 12. Summary of the comments there: [I]s this the best source for this? That does rather ring alarm bells. --JBL (talk) 14:26, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]