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:Not even articles about plastic pollutants reach that [[Special:Contributions/94.34.145.167|94.34.145.167]] ([[User talk:94.34.145.167|talk]]) 16:19, 6 October 2021 (UTC) |
:Not even articles about plastic pollutants reach that [[Special:Contributions/94.34.145.167|94.34.145.167]] ([[User talk:94.34.145.167|talk]]) 16:19, 6 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::Because nearly all that's been written about rock piling (which isn't much) is news coverage of notable acts of rock pile vandalism, and PSAs from wilderness preservation orgs asking hikers and tourists not to pile rocks. I've also recently deleted a couple of paragraphs about the physics of rock piling that looked a lot like filler/cruft to me, which has made the article even shorter. [[User:Geogene|Geogene]] ([[User talk:Geogene|talk]]) 21:21, 6 October 2021 (UTC) |
::Because nearly all that's been written about rock piling (which isn't much) is news coverage of notable acts of rock pile vandalism, and PSAs from wilderness preservation orgs asking hikers and tourists not to pile rocks. I've also recently deleted a couple of paragraphs about the physics of rock piling that looked a lot like filler/cruft to me, which has made the article even shorter. [[User:Geogene|Geogene]] ([[User talk:Geogene|talk]]) 21:21, 6 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:::Rock 'balancing' is vandalism? Really? |
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:::1. Dry stone walls are probably the most permanent form of rock 'balancing'. A skill, a craft, and a business which is how many thousands of years old? Dry stone walls are here to stay. |
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:::2. Rocks are sometimes left as a memory of a person, an event, perhaps as a reminder of a memory. Who are those denying people their life choices? Why not take it further and stop the practice of leaving small rocks on the headstones of friends, family and loved ones, that is the next step if these drones have their way. |
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:::3. Rocks have been used to build cairns to prevent disturbance of burial sites. The ages old practice remains and long may it continue. |
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:::First few things that sprang to mind, horrified that this was given any credence, lunacy. You want to do something, stop the corporations from devouring the environment, stop fracking, oil drilling, deforestation, salmon spawning areas, chemical crop spraying, make them repair and enhance the damage they have done, redress their crimes, address the damage that they have caused to families as a result of corporate greed. [[User:Wonofone|Wonofone]] ([[User talk:Wonofone|talk]]) 15:26, 27 May 2022 (UTC) |
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== rock balancing as meditative practice == |
== rock balancing as meditative practice == |
Revision as of 17:25, 27 May 2022
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Older discussion
Let's agree that:
1) "Famous rock balancers" at least means people who are famous enough to have a Wikipedia entry about them which is not a vanity posting.
2) Putative information about "famous rock balancers" which is beyond a simple description of who they are is placed in their Wikipedia entry, not in the Rock Balancing article.
3) Substantive edits should be discussed here first, and are subject to immediate removal if they are not.
66.81.65.198 08:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Let's also agree that:
4) Images should only be posted which illustrate the topic in a way not already shown.
5) The appropriate place for an image credit is on the image page, not on the Wiki entry.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.81.65.5 (talk) 05:07, 14 August 2007
- Point 3 is incorrect - See WP:Be Bold.
- Point 4 is slightly overly restrictive. Different angles and distances can be useful - we simply need to not overwhelm the small amount of text with dozens of images.
- Everything else seems fine. -- Quiddity (talk) 23:27, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, IP editor, but that's not how Wikipedia works. You don't own the page and you don't get to make up rules for how people can edit it. I wouldn't normally respond to such old comments but people refer to these points several times below, making them appear to have a standing that they do not, in fact, have. Dricherby (talk) 22:45, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
How to...
So do you just eyeball a rock, up end it and jiggle it until it balances? A practical explanation of the mechanics involved would be very helpful. Thanks! AndyHuston 01:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
- Yep, that's it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daliel (talk • contribs) 04:16, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Please consider adding a tutorial, or at least a link to one. Thank you.Soltera (talk) 17:45, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Spiritual practice involving rock balancing and stacking
That's really a joke. Why Tibetan Buddhism instead of Zen, or even Hawaii music? --Mongol (talk) 17:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
"Anyone on earth can balance a rock... it's amazing seeing people of any race, any religions, any age, any color... the rock treats you all the same..." ~Travis Ruskus, author of The Rock Balancer's Guide: Discover the Mindful Art of Balance (2019). One of the exercises guides the reader to "find your mantra" (Ruskus, pg. 46) which is something Wikipedia says any religion/spirituality can do. Follow.your.inner.heroes.2.the.work.you.love.2021 (talk) 01:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Image at Goring
The image from Goring does not appear to be genuine. The scene of the Thames meandering towards the Goring Gap in the predominantly chalk Chilterns, is bathed in typical soft, slightly silvery, English light, a chalk zone. The over-sharp edges of the red sandstones (from Somerset or Nottingham at best) are blasted by the pin-sharp red light more associated with Monument Valley, USA. Not to mention the amateurish emplacement on the soft drab grey Thames valley rock at the base. The poster needs to provide evidence that it was real, i.e. shots from other angles. Autodidactyl (talk) 14:55, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Excuse me but this is absolutely genuine! This image has been on this page for many years and nobody else has had an issue with it. What Autodidactyl is calling the meandering Thames, is actually a white poppy field, you can not see the Thames in this photo. Also the rocks are all from my cousin's garden, so there are a variety of native and non-native rocks. What Autodidactyl is calling a soft drab grey rock at the base is actually a wooden gate post. Please cross reference the image on my flickr account at http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockbalancer/page11/. Hopefully, this will be enough evidence for you Autodidactyl. Lila —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.63.196.54 (talk) 04:07, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- An image on Flicker does not constitute verifiable proof of anything. Your points on the gate post and the Thames are accepted, but we cannot know your cousin's garden. As requested originally, please provide additional shot(s) from other angles. Yours sincerely. Autodidactyl (talk) 13:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Autodidactyl, you asked for other images from other angles. I am not going to post these on the rock balancing entry, per the requirements stated earlier in the discussion "4) Images should only be posted which illustrate the topic in a way not already shown." Therefore, I will once again send you to my flickr site to see some of the same rocks balanced from a slightly different angle. If you are still unsure of my the image's authenticity please ask some of the other editors. Daliel knows my work, from his oversight of Bill Dan's Rock-on-rock-on webstie. Please check this statement for authenticity by going here: http://www.rock-on-rock-on.com/others-more-than-ever.html. Rockbalancer 13:15, 19 November 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockbalancer (talk • contribs)
Image of Point Balance
Avhell-hi and welcome to the on-line rock balancing community. I really like the rock balancing image you posted but there are a few protocols you didn't follow, and that is why I deleted it. Please read the agreed upon protocols listed above and then add to this page. Per point four listed above, "Images should only be posted which illustrate the topic in a way not already shown." The rock balance shown at the Petrified Forest already shows a point balance. Also note point three. Although, you only added an image, it did make a big difference in the formatting of the page, any substantive edits need to be agreed upon in the discussion section first. Thanks for understanding and hope to see more of your work.--Rockbalancer (talk) 20:37, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
- Substantive edits do not have to be agreed upon first - see WP:Be bold and related pages. (Usually. Unless the subject is contentious or the article is protected).
- Multiple illuminating images is fine. IIRC, we were previously having problems with someone adding many images of the exact same rockstack (from different angles), which was also overwhelming the small amount of prose.
- I've added the image back, as it is a good closeup, and depicts a large boulder pointbalancing on a small rock. -- Quiddity (talk) 23:36, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
- Hello all! I am sorry if I have broken any guidelines or etiquette with the image (or the page formatting!). I am in the process of releasing most of my images as cc-by-sa for anyone to use, and found that balance image to be a particularly interesting one. I figured there were no examples of this type of double point balancing, and was thinking perhaps it might be useful to illustrate. I'm sorry if I've disrupted anything! Avhell (talk) 17:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Famous Rock Balancers
Does anyone else think the last three "famous" balancers should be removed? I at least think a wikipedia page needs to be available to be linked to for a famous balancer. I mean I know "famous rock balancers" is a bit of an oxymoron, but lets at least nip this in the bud before everyone starts listing themselves as famous. Lila —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockbalancer (talk • contribs) 19:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
- All the items could do with a single reliable-source reference. If no reference can be found (eg for the unlinked or redlinked people) then those entries should be removed. Simple :) -- Quiddity (talk) 21:57, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Some more history?
The Andy G. article implies that he's the 'father of modern rock-balancing'. Which would be good to know for some casual browser reading about rock-balancing on this page.
Also, it would be of interest to know that balanced rocks are a historical (ie: prior to ~1910) means of marking trails, and larger instances of more rocks doing more balancing could be looked at as an elaboration of simple trail marking.
~ender 2011-09-25 22:20:PM MST — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.165.53.38 (talk)
Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top.
The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Diego (talk) 05:47, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks auto-bot! But, you can't source statements from other wikipedia articles (1) and I don't have sources for the other information I've learnt over the years (2), or a supposition/conclusion of my own - and since I'm not famous, and published elsewhere then it can't be included (3). So, I put it out there, in case someone else knows of sources, or feels like investigating them.
- ~ender 2012-01-07 17:14MST — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.165.52.42 (talk)
Trashing legitimate controversy
Why are some fanatics removing the "Opposition to Rock-Balancing" section?
Can they stand no criticism from nature lovers who want to be free of another building-driven and obsessed cult? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.125.119.62 (talk) 06:42, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- Simply provide a verifiable reference that this critcism is held by more than yourself and I don't think you will have further issue. I am no rock balancing fanatic, and I see where this practice annoys you, but your opinion can not be the basis of an encyclopedic article. Saffron Blaze (talk) 07:36, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps a more neutral way to approach this topic is to title the section: Appropriate settings for rock balancing (or something like that), and expand on the positive rather than the negative. Certainly there are settings that should be legally and morally avoided, such as a habitat restoration project, especially if endangered species are involved. The “knocking down . . ” statement in the current section is adversarial and should be deleted. Pinethicket (talk) 10:42, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- The references removed my concern over verifiability and give credence to the claim even if it is rather self-evident. There are groups that oppose everything; it just a function of whether that opposition is notable for any particular article. Are we now going to see a disclaimer like this in every outdoor recreational activity? Take en:Camping for example where no such opposition is found yet the references applied here are much more applicable to that activity than this? Would we accept a similar oppositional statement in the en:Inuksuk article? Knocking down an Inuksuk could actually put someone's life in danger as they may lose their point of reference. Well, not going to travel further down this rabbit hole as it would be unproductive. I don't know if their is such a thing as a rock balancing community and whether they have a code of ethics (for lack of a better term). With that said, your approach would be better than the one that is offered by the concerned IP. Saffron Blaze (talk) 11:51, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps a more neutral way to approach this topic is to title the section: Appropriate settings for rock balancing (or something like that), and expand on the positive rather than the negative. Certainly there are settings that should be legally and morally avoided, such as a habitat restoration project, especially if endangered species are involved. The “knocking down . . ” statement in the current section is adversarial and should be deleted. Pinethicket (talk) 10:42, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
After reviewing the latest change I have removed the sentence that was not verified for two reasons: it was unverified and rather confrontational in tone. I have also removed the redundant statement that the practice is not supported as per the note. I will add that the reference cited makes no mention of rock balancing although their guidelines do make it clear activities like rock balancing would be frowned upon if one were an adherent to the principles of Leave No Trace. I do hope this doesn't devolve into any more of an edit war than it already is and leads to this page being protected. It would be much more preferable if the IP discussed the issue here so that concensus could be achieved. Frankly, I think the one sentence covers the issue clearly and if readers need more info the reference is there. Saffron Blaze (talk) 19:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- One of the sentences you removed had been vandalized to say the opposite of the source. I've restored it to its original status. Diego (talk) 22:03, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- I think that strikes the right balance and maintains NPOV. If folks do indeed return the stones or at least scatter them then it is no different than the issue regarding fire rings, which are compatible with Leave No Trace. As such it seems clear to me Rock Balancing can be practiced in accordance with Leave No Trace ideals. Saffron Blaze (talk) 14:15, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Rewording
The images i saw on the article are great, but i found the text inadequate in ways that i think i've alleviated. I was also tempted to note three separate disciplines, but decided to construe what i contemplated as WP:OR. Perhaps the aficianados will be inspired to comment, or expand the article in this dimension:
- The article is heavy with what i would call strict stacks, perhaps the most painstaking version: putting one rock on top of another, and putting the next one on top of that.
- As i prowled, i saw more of what i'm more familiar: to some degree tree-like, in the sense of branches and branchlets and [some limit].
- Arches, which surprised me from my awareness of how old the Roman arch is (even if i'm not sure whether that elaboration made first building a pile of rubble where you want a gate thru the wall into the new tech, or into the old pre-Roman tech). And of course, these are presumably mortarless arches, far more impressively skilled than right-angled, trapezoidal-element based, and/or mortar-dependent structures.
Anyway, i started to write
- (Generally the discipline thrives on each rock being balanced on only one other, yet often directly supporting than one or more resting on it (and many indirectly supporting the weight of rocks supported directly or indirectly above them....
and realized i have neither the experience nor the passion that probably the topic deserves.
So kudos to the artisans and artists, and i hope that amounts to encouragement to "edit on, Garth!"
--Jerzy•t 20:36, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
Tupparo, Colombia phto
Very cool, even if that is snow, not surging water, around it. Have we any info on that, and how long the rock has been documented as surviving?
--Jerzy•t 21:59, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- I don't think it is snow. I think it is moving water. I think you are referring to this image. Bus stop (talk) 22:44, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
As an obnoxious behavior
As rock piles are now becoming ubiquitous on public lands, more sources are available that condemn the practice as a defacement of the natural landscape. The article should be updated to reflect this changing perspective. Potential sources:
- https://www.newyorker.com/culture/rabbit-holes/people-are-stacking-too-many-stones
- https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-45146681
- https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/stacking-rocks-wilderness-no-good-180955880/
- http://blueplanetsociety.org/2018/08/rock-stacking-denies-people-the-experience-of-wildness/
- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/17/stone-stacking-instagram-environment-adventure-tourism
- https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/michigan-environment-roundup-rock-stacking-tourists-harm-tahquamenon
- https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-04/noosa-rock-stacking-1/10194564
- https://www.hcn.org/articles/a-call-for-an-end-to-cairns-leave-the-stones-alone
Some of those may be duplicates, and not all are necessarily reliable. Geogene (talk) 05:45, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Here's a helpful webpage with more info about why to be careful about not messing with cairns at the National Parks -- https://www.nps.gov/articles/rockcairns.htm Follow.your.inner.heroes.2.the.work.you.love.2021 (talk) 01:43, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- That makes sense, but isn't it a bit much for a solid three quarters of the article to be about opposition?
- Not even articles about plastic pollutants reach that 94.34.145.167 (talk) 16:19, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
- Because nearly all that's been written about rock piling (which isn't much) is news coverage of notable acts of rock pile vandalism, and PSAs from wilderness preservation orgs asking hikers and tourists not to pile rocks. I've also recently deleted a couple of paragraphs about the physics of rock piling that looked a lot like filler/cruft to me, which has made the article even shorter. Geogene (talk) 21:21, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
rock balancing as meditative practice
User:Arllaw yesterday i expanded on the meditative aspect of rock balancing, as I am a long time practitioner and that's how i apply it. I cited my gallery :a huge gallery of rock piles, on subject as opposed to inserting images on the page (keeping the edit moderate) and it further expands on the subject of rock balancing as meditation if someone was even more curious, but it was on subject for rock balancing as I thought maybe actual proof I was a practitioner would be validation and qualify my opinion...As that was my first or second time editing a post (although I did share a lot of Mexican landmark photos years ago) maybe you could qualify for me how it was spam or did you assume new account=spam? Am I correct in assuming you could give me a little more guidance, as I must have missed something reading up on editing posts. Thanks up front. I thought I was well within the guidelines of wiki and this was actually my trial run after reading up on how to. Maybe that's why this page seems so devoid of content? or is it mostly views opposed to the practice?...Its not like I listed myself as a famous artist at the bottom so I'm confused. Are you implying its not a meditative practice and if so could you qualify that statement Ryan Clark 1969 (talk) 18:34, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I read the reflection with the gallery... very thought-provoking and inspiring! :D Follow.your.inner.heroes.2.the.work.you.love.2021 (talk) 01:38, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Ideas for a "Further Reading" section
It's up to the moderators of your page, but I'll post it here so at least those of us interested in talking about rock balancing can take a look, and you can think about maybe adding something like this to the official page itself. (I'm just listing them alphabetically, not playing any favorites with notability levels here). I've only read 2 of them, but they all sound interesting! Has anyone read any of these? Do you know of any other ones? Should they hyperlink to a webpage? Should they have brief bios + summaries? Let's talk about that! :-)
Follow.your.inner.heroes.2.the.work.you.love.2021 (talk) 00:55, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- Follow.your.inner.heroes.2.the.work.you.love.2021, thanks, but we don't really do bibliographies--certainly not for a short article like this. Drmies (talk) 21:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
Further Reading:
- Carter, Joel. Rockpeople: Beyond Chester Creek. (2012)
- Grab, Michael. Gravity - Arts of Rock Balancing. (2016)
- Juhl, Peter. Center of Gravity: A Guide to the Practice of Rock Balancing. (2013)
- Leavitt, Amie Jane. The Science Behind Wonders of Earth: Cave Crystals, Balancing Rocks, and Snow Donuts. (2016)
- Marion, Jeffrey. Leave No Trace in the Outdoors. (2014)
- Miller, Cameron. Cairn: Poems and Essays. (2020)
- Quasha, George. Axial Stones: An Art of Precarious Balance. (2006)
- Rokus, Patti. A Savior Is Born: Rocks Tell the Story of Christmas. (2018)
- Ruskus, Travis. The Rock Balancer's Guide: Discover the Mindful Art of Balance. (2019)
- Walko, Joe. Cairns: The Beauty and Power of Finding Your Way. (2019)
- Williams, David. Cairns: Messengers in Stone. (2012)
Form of vandalism?
If someone does rock balancing in their own backyard, rock balancing is not vandalism... this wiki page should be reviewed and edited accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SunnyBorneIce (talk • contribs) 02:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- SunnyBorneIce, if someone is balancing rocks in their backyard...why would someone write an encyclopedia article about it? The sourcing is all about rock piling in wilderness areas, and the problems it causes. Geogene (talk) 02:53, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Geogene, but wikipedia is supposed to be all-encompassing and non-biased. how is the definition of rock balancing confined to vandalism in all situations... such a notion is illogical given the fact that the activity only requires a collection of rocks and a piece of land (not all land is illegal land).SunnyBorneIce (talk) 03:04, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- But, it really isn't meant to be all-encompassing or un-biased. It encompasses subjects that are notable enough to have a certain amount of reliable sources already written about them, enough to mine for the information to write an article about. And it's supposed to be biased in the same way the majority of mainstream sources are. Geogene (talk) 03:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- Geogene, but wikipedia is supposed to be all-encompassing and non-biased. how is the definition of rock balancing confined to vandalism in all situations... such a notion is illogical given the fact that the activity only requires a collection of rocks and a piece of land (not all land is illegal land).SunnyBorneIce (talk) 03:04, 13 May 2022 (UTC)