Brewcrewer (talk | contribs) haha. i like it my name is on everyone's watchlist |
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I might also point out that [[Al-Quds (disambiguation)|Quds]] is written in Arabic as the three consonants Q-D-S, ie. al-Quds (''al'' meaning "the") is not a derivation of the root. It is the root as used in Arabic and is therefore directly relevant to this page. [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 21:33, 16 November 2008 (UTC) |
I might also point out that [[Al-Quds (disambiguation)|Quds]] is written in Arabic as the three consonants Q-D-S, ie. al-Quds (''al'' meaning "the") is not a derivation of the root. It is the root as used in Arabic and is therefore directly relevant to this page. [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 21:33, 16 November 2008 (UTC) |
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:Jaakobou, you |
:Jaakobou, you are making a total mess of this talk page. With the "Offtopic" sub-header above and now the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Q-D-S&diff=prev&oldid=252227400 blanking] of most of my last comment, while retaining the pararaph above, it's become hard to follow. What is the point of all this? My last (blanked) comment was a summary of your own words and mine designed to point out that you have made no real argument as to why this page should not be linked here. So if you do have an argument, please, make it here and let's get this over with already, okay? [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 22:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC) |
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::Groups which use "Islam", "Allah", "Quds", etc. in their name are not listed on the respective articles and it is improper to promote a link to a list of organizations that use "Quds" as it would be to have a similar link for "Hezbollah" in the see also section for the article about "Allah". This is my main argument that I've repeated a couple times and I would appreciate a response to this argument. |
::Groups which use "Islam", "Allah", "Quds", etc. in their name are not listed on the respective articles and it is improper to promote a link to a list of organizations that use "Quds" as it would be to have a similar link for "Hezbollah" in the see also section for the article about "Allah". This is my main argument that I've repeated a couple times and I would appreciate a response to this argument. |
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::I would also appreciate the somewhat improper title of this section, where you charge me of having made a tendentious point, to be changed. |
::I would also appreciate the somewhat improper title of this section, where you charge me of having made a tendentious point, to be changed. |
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::Cordially, <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 22:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC) |
::Cordially, <b><font face="Arial" color="teal">[[User:Jaakobou|Jaakobou]]</font><font color="1F860E"><sup>''[[User talk:Jaakobou|Chalk Talk]]''</sup></font></b> 22:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC) |
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'''[[Jerusalem|Al-Quds]]''' ({{lang-ar|القدس}}, literally "The Holy", derived from the ancient [[Semitic]] root [[Q-D-S]]) is the most commonly used [[Arabic]] [[Names of Jerusalem|name]] for the [[Jerusalem|City of Jerusalem]]. |
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'''Al-Quds''' may also refer to: |
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* [[Al-Quds Brigades]], the armed wing of Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) |
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* [[Al-Quds University]], the Palestinian university in Jerusalem |
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* [[Al-Quds Open University]], an open university with campuses across the Palestinian territories, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates |
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* [[Quds Force]], a special unit of the Iranian [[Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution|Revolutionary Guards]]. |
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* [[Al-Quds (newspaper)|''Al-Quds'' (newspaper)]], a Palestinian newspaper |
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* [[Al-Quds Index]], the primary stock index of the Palestine Securities Exchange. |
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* [[Al-Quds Mosque]], in Hamburg, Germany |
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* Al-Quds International Institution (QII) |
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I have re-posted them here because you seem to have trouble reading. The opening sentence defines the word [[Al-Quds]]. It links to this page because its root [[Q-D-S]] is identical. Then comes a list of other Wikipedia articles that contain the word Al-Quds. As you can see, two are universities, one is a newspaper, another is the Palestinian stock exchange, and there's a mosque. Besides that, there are two militant organizations: one Palestinian and one Iranian. In other words, your argument is fallacious since it misrepresents the contents of the page completely. This page defines the word [[Al-Quds]] and points to articles on Wikipedia that contain that word. Nothing wrong with linking it in the see also section here. In fact, it could even be a hatnote since its root in Arabic is identical to the root described here. But a link in the see also section will do just fine I think. [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 00:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC) |
Revision as of 00:12, 17 November 2008
Arab world Unassessed | ||||||||||
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Lettering
- per the following diff - [1]
Perhaps we should add a subsection with all the possible lettering and link to it from the introduction? Certainly this is encyclopedic content. JaakobouChalk Talk 15:44, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- We can eventually add a table with all the alphabets and their transliterations. No need to clutter up the lead and feed the lkelihood of edit wars. Besides which, the ultimate root remains unknown and is neither Hebrew nor Arabic. Tiamuttalk 15:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- How about, you add the Arabic root next to the Hebrew one for now instead of deleting encyclopedic content? JaakobouChalk Talk 20:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- We can eventually add a table with all the alphabets and their transliterations. No need to clutter up the lead and feed the lkelihood of edit wars. Besides which, the ultimate root remains unknown and is neither Hebrew nor Arabic. Tiamuttalk 15:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- Saw it. Glad to see this point resolved. JaakobouChalk Talk 20:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Disambig linkage
With all due respect to the thousands of places Muslims give the title Quds to, I fail to see how that is beneficial to the article. There is certainly a long list of similar attributes in Jewish culture that is far more relevant than a few militant groups calling themselves holy. To clarify my note here, I would not expect the article of Islam to be linked with all the terrorist groups that add the word to their name.
p.s. I'm open to an RfC on this though. JaakobouChalk Talk 15:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- I suppose you followed Nishidani here? No matter.
- I was very much enjoying editing this article, far away from the I-P conflict stuff. Please, it's a link in the see also section to a page which discusses the various pages that contain the words "Quds" which is a direct derivation from the Q-D-S Semitic root. Let's try not to let any biases we may hold against Muslims influence our editing choices here, okay? Tiamuttalk 15:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- Heyo Tiamut,
- A personal attack is not an explanation to why you'd assume adding a 'see also' link to a few militants (al-Aqsa brigades and the like) who call themselves 'holy'. I gave an example of a similar mislinking option but I don't see addressing the example or the raised concern.
- With respect, JaakobouChalk Talk 20:39, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- I've already explained it a number of times. This article is about the Semitic root Q-D-S and words that derive from it. Al-Quds is one of those words. It is however, a word that is used by many different people. The Al-Quds (disambiguation) page, points to some examples of its everyday use today. Plus, you keep characterizing the contents of that page in a way that misrepresents it. Of the seven articles linked there, only three deal with militant groups; the others reference a university, the Palestinian stock exchange, a newspaper, etc. Please stop letting your bias interfere with your editing choices here and give WP:BATTLEa good re-read. Thanks. Tiamuttalk 21:07, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- I fail to see how "holy" militant groups and a "holy" propaganda newspaper are suddenly important for inclusion. This is not a link to a 'word' which derives it's root from Q-D-S, but rather an irrelevant (more than 50%) link to extremists who call themselves "holy" despite some clearly unholy activities. I can see a link from these articles to Q-D-S, but the opposite direction link seems silly. Maybe if there was a list to words which use the root rather than a link to a few hate movements who consider their ideology holy. To further clarify this perspective, I'd note that similar groups which use "Islam" or "Allah" in their name are not listed on the relevant articles, and they certainly shouldn't be listed. Please address this point as it's central to my argument and I've repeated it more than once already.
- p.s. please comment on content, not on alleged editorial bias. JaakobouChalk Talk 16:52, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Offtopic
- I concur with Tiamut. The remark
'There is certainly a long list of similar attributes in Jewish culture that is far more relevant than a few militant groups calling themselves holy.'
- appears to mean that Jewish holiness is more relevant to Q-D-S than 'thousand of places Muslims give the title of Q-D-S to' (the latter remark then glossed by 'a few militant groups calling themselves holy'). This is an ethnocentric put-down, once more, Jaakobou, and insinuates that there is a rough equivalence of Muslim claims to holiness and militancy. Please refrain from politicizing an interesting article which, as written so far, shows the common roots of the 'holy' in all Semitic cultures, and does not equivocate with a partisan'holier than thou' tone with regard to any one of the dozen cultures which are heir to this concept.Nishidani (talk) 16:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- Nishidani,
- I appreciate your notes on cultural sensitivity but my removal of links to militant groups is actually helping de-politicize the article rather than the opposite. I'd have to also note that Jewish usage of the term 'Kadosh'/'Kidush'/etc. is far more proper than a list of extreme guerrilla militants who like to assign an air of holiness to their endeavors.
- Cordially, JaakobouChalk Talk 20:39, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- appears to mean that Jewish holiness is more relevant to Q-D-S than 'thousand of places Muslims give the title of Q-D-S to' (the latter remark then glossed by 'a few militant groups calling themselves holy'). This is an ethnocentric put-down, once more, Jaakobou, and insinuates that there is a rough equivalence of Muslim claims to holiness and militancy. Please refrain from politicizing an interesting article which, as written so far, shows the common roots of the 'holy' in all Semitic cultures, and does not equivocate with a partisan'holier than thou' tone with regard to any one of the dozen cultures which are heir to this concept.Nishidani (talk) 16:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- I'm glad you have had some helkp from my notes on cultural sensitivities, but remember you have a record of insensitivity in this regard in wiki. The Jewish word from the Q-D-S root is everywhere to be found in militant Jewish activist literature in the West Bank settlements, to justify their taking land from owners on the grounds that it is 'holy' to Judaism. Holiness has its militant reflexes (as in 'holy war'). There are no intrinsic grounds for eliding information because it alerts readers also to this aspect.Nishidani (talk) 22:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
- Jaakobou, an article about the Semitic root Q-D-S, might benefit having a link to an article on all the different meanings and applications of the Arabic word al-Quds (disambiguation) which is derived from it. That's encyclopedic. Your soapboxing is not. Tiamuttalk 20:54, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- I broke this section because we were discussing the issues above Nishidani's notes. If this is a problem, we can start another subheader maybe. JaakobouChalk Talk 18:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
- Jaakobou, the sub-header is misleading. It makes it seem like this discussion was not part of the discussion above, when in fact, it preceded it. Do you mind not re-formatting the page in this fashion or reverting my removal of the inaccurate sub-heading? Thanks. Tiamuttalk 18:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
- I'm thinking it would be best to start fresh on a new section. Currently, there are too many bias accusations which are irrelevant to the content discussion. JaakobouChalk Talk 18:58, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Breaking down a tendentious argument
- Note:
- I find this section's title improper and offensive.
- I found the partial quotes on my arguments made in the subsection opening misleading and suggestive and certainly, not a way to move the content forward.
- After giving it some thought I've decided to blank the misquotes as they represent a personal attack rather than a collaborative attempt to resolve the content dispute. If Tiamut so chooses to change the title of this section, that would be greatly appreciated.
- Cordially, JaakobouChalk Talk 22:09, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I might also point out that Quds is written in Arabic as the three consonants Q-D-S, ie. al-Quds (al meaning "the") is not a derivation of the root. It is the root as used in Arabic and is therefore directly relevant to this page. Tiamuttalk 21:33, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
- Jaakobou, you are making a total mess of this talk page. With the "Offtopic" sub-header above and now the blanking of most of my last comment, while retaining the pararaph above, it's become hard to follow. What is the point of all this? My last (blanked) comment was a summary of your own words and mine designed to point out that you have made no real argument as to why this page should not be linked here. So if you do have an argument, please, make it here and let's get this over with already, okay? Tiamuttalk 22:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
- Groups which use "Islam", "Allah", "Quds", etc. in their name are not listed on the respective articles and it is improper to promote a link to a list of organizations that use "Quds" as it would be to have a similar link for "Hezbollah" in the see also section for the article about "Allah". This is my main argument that I've repeated a couple times and I would appreciate a response to this argument.
- I would also appreciate the somewhat improper title of this section, where you charge me of having made a tendentious point, to be changed.
- Cordially, JaakobouChalk Talk 22:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Al-Quds (Arabic: القدس, literally "The Holy", derived from the ancient Semitic root Q-D-S) is the most commonly used Arabic name for the City of Jerusalem.
Al-Quds may also refer to:
- Al-Quds Brigades, the armed wing of Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
- Al-Quds University, the Palestinian university in Jerusalem
- Al-Quds Open University, an open university with campuses across the Palestinian territories, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates
- Quds Force, a special unit of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
- Al-Quds (newspaper), a Palestinian newspaper
- Al-Quds Index, the primary stock index of the Palestine Securities Exchange.
- Al-Quds Mosque, in Hamburg, Germany
- Al-Quds International Institution (QII)
I have re-posted them here because you seem to have trouble reading. The opening sentence defines the word Al-Quds. It links to this page because its root Q-D-S is identical. Then comes a list of other Wikipedia articles that contain the word Al-Quds. As you can see, two are universities, one is a newspaper, another is the Palestinian stock exchange, and there's a mosque. Besides that, there are two militant organizations: one Palestinian and one Iranian. In other words, your argument is fallacious since it misrepresents the contents of the page completely. This page defines the word Al-Quds and points to articles on Wikipedia that contain that word. Nothing wrong with linking it in the see also section here. In fact, it could even be a hatnote since its root in Arabic is identical to the root described here. But a link in the see also section will do just fine I think. Tiamuttalk 00:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)