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Season article drafts
Draft articles for season 1 and 2 can be found at Draft:Loki (season 1) and Draft:Loki (season 2). A mock up of what this article would look like after a split to season articles can be found at User:Favre1fan93/sandbox/4. This is just to get an extremely large head start on all this, as splits should not happen until there is enough content to justify a second season article existing (which might not be until closer to that releases). See MOS:TVSPLIT for more. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:42, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- I like this format for the season articles and the main series page. Quick questions, once these season articles are in the mainspace, for the series sections in the Phase articles, should we link the "Main article" to the series and the season? Also, should What If get season drafts as Feige confirmed S2 is in development. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:23, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
- The new "main" in my sandbox still is a big work in progress, because we'll have to see what of the writing info is really relevant to the series versus the season or applicable to both. Regarding linking, the table can link to both the main and season articles, and in the sections, I think hatnotes should be point to the season in {{main}} and the series in {{see also}} and links in the prose. What If maybe, I personally just felt we don't have enough info to justify drafts at this time, unlike here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:12, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
Cast breakdown
Breakdown of each episode's main on-end billing, plus cast list. Actors in bold indicate the first appearance of the character, with the episodes they appear in after.
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—El Millo (talk) 07:59, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2021
um i need to edit the reception and include episode 5 plot summary Dindugal dragon (talk) 07:34, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:45, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2021
Change "every attempted" to "ever attempted" in section 7.3. 68.194.176.32 (talk) 02:49, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
He who Remains (Jonathan majors) is also Kang
As per an article in the official marvel website https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/loki-he-who-remains-citadel-end-of-time-kang-statue Sleptlapps (talk) 08:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- Majors hasn't portrayed "Kang" yet. The statue is the only appearance similarity to show the connection. It seems obvious that he eventually will, but that'll be then. -- Tytrox (talk) 14:06, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2021
In the 6th episode of the Loki series, In the credits there is a scene in which it clarifies that there will be a season 2 of Loki Lakshayy Jain (talk) 14:01, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- That's just flavor. It has no bearing on the plot. It's like the "Thanos will return" bit at the end of Infinity War. -- Tytrox (talk) 14:09, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:12, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Edit request in episodes section
Replace the word he who remains' likeness with kang the conquerer in episodes section. RajdeepRanger (talk) 15:37, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Not done It is not confirmed that that is a statue of Kang in itself, although the link is there as Kang is a likeness of He Who Remains. IronManCap (talk) 15:45, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Done after being cited to the Marvel.com website, which confirms it is a statue of Kang. IronManCap (talk) 18:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Crime thriller/procedural genres
I'm wondering, do the crime thriller/procedural genres still apply for this series? The only instance I could find for "crime thriller" is from the title of a /Film article from December and the official synopsis doesn't mention "crime thriller" either. Though one can argue the procedural drama part can be applied to the TVA looking for Sylvie, that disappears for the later part of S1 ("Lamentis" for example). Considering that the 2 genres do not appear on the official Disney+ page of the series, I think they should be removed from the article. - Richiekim (talk) 16:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- We can keep them because they still apply to the first 2 episodes. And also, in the latest interview with Rotten Tomatoes, Kevin Feige casually called it a procedural too. — Starforce13 16:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- They are still elements in the series, but whether we should list them as actual genres is debatable. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:12, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Cast section prose
Would anyone object to removing the Minutemen actors and the unnamed TVA clerk and scanner? Yes, the Minutemen noted reached recurring status as defined, and the clerk and scanner guest, but they are all unnammed, and extremely minor. I think the prose should just be Neil Ellice as Hunter D-90 as he is recurring, and then our 2 uncredited cameos, Sif and Throg. The prose should read in my view: Neil Ellice recurs as Hunter D-90, while Jaimie Alexander makes an uncredited cameo appearance as Sif, and Chris Hemsworth makes an uncredited voice cameo appearance as Throg.
- Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:29, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- I agree, they're too minor and including them doesn't really help the readers much. — Starforce13 16:37, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- Also Agree here. IronManCap (talk) 16:51, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- Done - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:00, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
in episode 6 while Ravonna and mobius fight hunter B-15 shows hunter C-92 the 2013 version of renslayer but as it does that Ravonna says my school and I think she isn't a vice principal'
I think it should be principal instead of vice principal because she says her school and I also thin that instead of saying renslayer directly it should be Ravonna because she doesn't become judge renslayer until the future Sarah afton (talk) 23:14, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- Saying "my school" doesn't mean you own it. Even students use "my school" - I know I've done it dozens of times, doesn't mean I own it. Marvel recap called her the Vice Principal, so that's what we'll stick to. Please stop edit warring over this. It's not worth it.— Starforce13 23:19, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
hey how are you I okay I understand what you're trying to say but is it okay to it's not that you can't really see or portray what she is so why why why is it hard for you to understand that she may or may not be a principal Sarah afton (talk) 23:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- This is information at the official Marvel.com website. This has already been explained to you. —El Millo (talk) 23:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
ok Sarah afton (talk) 23:35, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Season 1 draft
When will Draft:Loki (season 1) be moved to mainspace? Is it only when Draft:Loki (season 2) is eligible to be moved as well? Do we normally have season article for series with only one season released so far? —El Millo (talk) 02:02, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- Usually, we keep the episode list on the main series article until there's like 50 episodes per MOS:TVSPLIT at which point we do a "List of episodes article"... and then if you have like 5 seasons, then split by seasons. BUT.... unlike most shows, the MCU articles have a lot of content on their own even without the episode listing. So, they would naturally qualify for split due to size. I think we can wait until season 2 premiere and then do the split. And I think when the time comes, we can skip the "List of episodes" articles and go straight to season splits since each season is basically going to be treated as its own movie... and might be in different phases. — Starforce13 02:37, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- The thought process was once filming of season 2 begins, as we'll be building out production info on that article as we were doing here, so it would make sense to make such a move then. And as Starforce13, we won't need a List of episodes as we can keep the transcluded tables here. Thought a List of characters article might be something to briefly consider. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:22, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
One thing too with the draft I'm wondering is the cast section. If there are not a lot of overlaps between who returns in season 2, it might be beneficial to move a lot of the prose there now to the season one article and pare down what's here to a simple description. The way the draft is set up now, is mimicking what we had done previously for Marvel TV series (see Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. versus Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (season 2) as an example) but we might want to switch up the formatting as I said. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:18, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- It seems like most main characters will also appear in season 2, but regardless, we'll have to wait until we can move the season drafts to mainspace to do those kinds of changes. For now, we could try them at your sandbox which, if I'm not mistaken, is for how this article would look like once the season drafts are in mainspace. —El Millo (talk) 22:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- I agree that it makes sense to wait until we can move the season 2 article before making the season 1 one. And I agree Favre that it may make sense to have this cast section at the season article since it is written like a film's cast section and that "film" is the first season only. What we replace it with could just be a single line for each actor or maybe a short summary of the two season's sections. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:17, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
- I also agree that its make sense to wait until we can move the season 2 article before making the season 1 Sarah afton (talk) 19:48, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
- I agree that it makes sense to wait until we can move the season 2 article before making the season 1 one. And I agree Favre that it may make sense to have this cast section at the season article since it is written like a film's cast section and that "film" is the first season only. What we replace it with could just be a single line for each actor or maybe a short summary of the two season's sections. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:17, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2021
it takes place after The Avengers, not Avengers: Endgame 103.130.74.5 (talk) 05:29, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Done -- Tytrox (talk) 06:17, 15 July 2021 (UTC)- Reverted. The series takes place after the events of Endgame, without which it couldn't have happened in the first place. The premiere even starts with the scene from Endgame, the fact that it is 2012 has nothing to do with it. —El Millo (talk) 06:23, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- No it doesn't. It was depicted in the movie, but doesn't follow the movie's timeline. The whole premise of the show is this Loki is a "variant" that has split from the main time line at the point that it occurred, ie. at the end of 2012 Avengers. The main MCU timeline Loki was depicted as being killed off. This Loki has not replaced that Loki, that's why he's a "Variant". -- Tytrox (talk) 06:42, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- UPDATE Hold on... I've re-reverted in grace that it could be a misunderstanding. Maybe it needs a rewrite. -- Tytrox (talk) 06:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- Reverted. The series takes place after the events of Endgame, without which it couldn't have happened in the first place. The premiere even starts with the scene from Endgame, the fact that it is 2012 has nothing to do with it. —El Millo (talk) 06:23, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- Not done -- Reverted. Story wise Loki branches from 2012 Avengers, but it occurs during Endgame with the time travel plot element. Maybe it could be rewritten. -- Tytrox (talk) 07:12, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- I think how it is is okay for the lead. If readers want to know more about it they can read the article, as this is explained in the Cast and characters section, the Development section, and even more extensively in the Writing section. —El Millo (talk) 07:18, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- Agree with Facu-el Millo here. Tytrox, it takes place after the events of Endgame, not necessarily after it in the timeline. The events of Endgame include Loki stealing the Tesseract, which leads to the events of this show. IronManCap (talk) 13:58, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- I think how it is is okay for the lead. If readers want to know more about it they can read the article, as this is explained in the Cast and characters section, the Development section, and even more extensively in the Writing section. —El Millo (talk) 07:18, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
edit request for seasons
I would like to state that they are making the second season now Sarah afton (talk) 20:05, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- Already done. IronManCap (talk) 20:06, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Rotten Tomatoes graph
Is the Rotten Tomatoes graph really appropriate meaningful or necessary? (Hint, it isn't)
What is the graph supposed to say to readers? Some episodes got slightly higher ratings than others? Does that merit a graph? Is it noteworthy? (Hint, it isn't)
Why is the scale from 80-100? That distorts the picture and makes a small decrease look bigger. It makes it look like episode 3 did poorly when it got a reviews that would be the envy of most shows.
Different episodes received different numbers of reviews (97%/34; 94%/5; 83%/35; 87%/31; 92%/24; 91%/22). It doesn't seem like a meaningful comparison.
Does the slope from one episode to the next actually mean something? (Hint, it doesn't. If anything it should be a bar chart not a graph.)
Just because you can graph these numbers doesn't mean you should. I hope editors will take a serious look at it and remove it, or at the very least make it clearer what point the graph is trying to make. I don't believe this graph is even interesting or noteworthy, let alone appropriate for inclusion in an encyclopedia. -- 109.79.161.25 (talk) 00:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- I've already asked this question. It's a bug with the template. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Loki_(TV_series)#Episode_ratings_graph_seems_deceptive -- Tytrox (talk) 00:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- The 80-100 range is automatic depending on the numbers available. So, it's not a bug. BUT... I agree, the graph is generally misleading and doesn't serve any relevant purpose to readers. I agree with removing it completely from all the MCU shows. It can be replaced with a table instead.— Starforce13 02:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
There's a natural tendency for editors to see that a template exists and think that means it is a actually good idea to use it. I've been misled before.
Tytrox thanks for highlighting your question about this table but my point is that the graph is far more fundamentally flawed even than that. I should bring my objections to Project TV but I was hoping that someone with a background in statistics and data science would have stepped up already and maybe a good version of the graph is possible but I'm not so sure.
Also WP:PROSE, always more prose. -- 109.79.161.25 (talk) 03:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- Nudge
Please delete/remove X the {{Television Rotten Tomatoes scores}} graph from the Critical_response section. Based on the above discussion I do not believe removing this would be controversial. (Feel free to replace it with a table such as {{Television critical response}} or similar, but that is an entirely separate issue.) I'm nudging this forward by repeating it as a formal request. -- 109.79.75.58 (talk) 02:18, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- Not done There is an ongoing discussion at the template's talk page. Please take your concerns there. - adamstom97 (talk) 03:07, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Design Subheading Edit - Production Designer Credit
After the sentence, under the Design subsection, "From the comics, Herron was drawn to "these amazing images of desks going on into infinity" to incorporate into the TVA design.[27]" credit should be given to the production designer as well. This should be added in a new paragraph following this sentence. Suggested wording with citations:
The production designer Kasra Farahani and Herron sought to reconcile the whimsical, warm American midcentury modernism of Mad Men with the dystopic, analog future tech of Blade Runner. Kasra arrived at a more European style of midcentury modernism for the shapes of the architecture to create a cognitive dissonance where you can't tell if the TVA is a warm and friendly place or if it's a place that wants to destroy you. Other than the Marriott location they used for the archives, everything was built on a stage or a backlot, so Kasra was able to control every detail. [1] For example, the ceiling of the TVA were built low to give a sense of paranoia and not really knowing where you were. [2] This gave the tactical and tangible quality to each set that allowed them to feel like it was part of the same world. [3]"
Marco101alvarez (talk) 00:18, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Production Designer Kasra Farahani Interview: Loki". ScreenRant]]. July 13 2021.
{{cite web}}
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(help) - ^ "Tom Hiddleston Had to "Unstitch the Evolution" of Loki for Disney+ Series". Decider]]. June 8 2021.
{{cite web}}
: Check date values in:|date=
(help) - ^ "Production Designer Kasra Farahani Interview: Loki". ScreenRant]]. July 13 2021.
{{cite web}}
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(help)
- Some of this material has since been added. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:01, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Production Designer under Production
Production Designer should be credited under the Production section. Production Designer Kasra Farahani [1]
Marco101alvarez (talk) 00:24, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Loki Full Cast & Crew". IMDB.
- Not done
please see appropriate Farahani mentioned in the "Design" section.- Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:48, 17 July 2021 (UTC)- Still not done, but per the request in the section above, Farahani will be mentioned with that material addition. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:52, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Miss Minutes spin-off
In this interview, Kate Herron, states the following in response to being jokingly asked about a slasher film revolving around Miss Minutes: "I would love to! That would actually be my dream." Whether the situation was created out of a jokeful preposition or not is irrelevant. We have seen in the past, such as in 2016 with The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, where Kevin Feige was jokingly asked years prior about "When are we gonna get our Falcon-Bucky roadtrip movie?", to which he responded, "[That's a good idea]". This situation could even be compared to the double feature Grindhouse, in which there are two fictitious, joking, trailers for films called Hobo with a Shotgun and Machete, years later, both were made. Now back to Miss Minutes, while the question was clearly a joke, the answer is given with sincerity. And it should deserve a brief section outlining the pitch in the same way Black Widow (2021 film) has a section on a not yet-in-development, potential spin-off film of its own, with a quote from its director. Mitchy Power (talk) 00:39, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
- The future Black Widow project is an actual potential future project. This being a joke is not
irrelevant
per WP:RSCONTEXT, nobody is seriously suggesting this is a serious project there. It's a simple one-line joke. IronManCap (talk) 00:41, 18 July 2021 (UTC) - (edit conflict) The case about The Falcon and the Winter Soldier doesn't apply here since we didn't include the exchange between Feige and that interviewer (and if we did, it would be incorrect to do so). The second case is the same, a joke doesn't stop being a joke if years later it becomes true. Only after the fact that it was made, and maybe not even then, is the initial statement relevant. Regarding Black Widow's example, there's nothing that indicates they're joking there. Still, we should wait until other editors weigh in. —El Millo (talk) 00:45, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, there definitely isn't anything here worth mentioning. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:17, 18 July 2021 (UTC)