Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) m Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Liverpool/Archive 5) (bot |
Babydoll9799 (talk | contribs) Tag: Reverted |
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Change "it" to "its" in "...led to it becoming a tourist destination." The gerund "becoming" requires a possessive pronoun to precede it in this case. [[User:Joshuawf01|Joshuawf01]] ([[User talk:Joshuawf01|talk]]) 01:43, 30 August 2021 (UTC) |
Change "it" to "its" in "...led to it becoming a tourist destination." The gerund "becoming" requires a possessive pronoun to precede it in this case. [[User:Joshuawf01|Joshuawf01]] ([[User talk:Joshuawf01|talk]]) 01:43, 30 August 2021 (UTC) |
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:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> "[has] led to it becoming a tourist destination" sounds like perfectly acceptable English to my non-grammatician ears. [[User:RandomCanadian|RandomCanadian]] ([[User talk:RandomCanadian|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/RandomCanadian|contribs]]) 12:19, 30 August 2021 (UTC) |
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> "[has] led to it becoming a tourist destination" sounds like perfectly acceptable English to my non-grammatician ears. [[User:RandomCanadian|RandomCanadian]] ([[User talk:RandomCanadian|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/RandomCanadian|contribs]]) 12:19, 30 August 2021 (UTC) |
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== Help sought== |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Babydoll9799 |
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I appear to be ambushed by a handful of users and I am seeking some help from the Liverpool |
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area. I noticed an anomaliy with the "People from" category. It looked like the city of Liverpool |
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had been replaced by districts within Liverpool. So for example someone from Toxteth, instead of saying their birthplace is Liverpool and "People from Liverpool" (as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_by_district_in_England) it is replaced by birthplace Toxteth and "People from Toxteth". I feel I have been treated quite shabbily because I have stood my ground. |
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[[User:Babydoll9799|Babydoll9799]] ([[User talk:Babydoll9799|talk]]) 21:11, 30 October 2021 (UTC) |
Revision as of 21:12, 30 October 2021
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This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Liverpool Population, again
@Atrahasis01, Correctus2kX, Chrism, Ghmyrtle, LicenceToCrenellate, Dr Greg, and EdJohnston: I have pinged recent contributers to the talk page, or that have bee directly involved in the edit / reversion process. Further to recent changes to the lede. To cover all bases.
- Liverpool is both a City and a Metropolitan Borough. There is no delineation between the two. There is no official metric of a Liverpool that is not both the City and the Borough as a minimum. In case this is unclear - Liverpool was a Borough (with a council) before it was a City. When City status was conferred, it was conferred on Liverpool as a Borough (with a council).
- There is no population difference between Liverpool Metropolitan Borough and the City. There is no functional difference between the Local Authority (as was previously attempted to be changed) and the Borough, as the Local Authority is the representative and administrative entity for the Borough and City. We have asked previously for any sources to back up any of these changes and none have been provided. In contrast the sources currently provided are the two main principle authorities on the matter The ONS[1] and NOMIS (using the ONS dataset).
Prior discussion was here in the archive.
- To quote Ghmyrtle at that time: "Hopefully we can all agree that the city, metropolitan borough, council and local authority are all synonymous with each other".
- To quote Correctus: "this wording is more confusing and needs rewording to reflect that that is the population of the Liverpool city council area only. Readers are not being informed of this with the current wording".
These positions are mutually exclusive, and as yet there has been no explanation of why there is a difference, nor have any sources been provided to counter the position of the ONS (even colloquially). Koncorde (talk) 09:45, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- I wonder if the text of the citation can be improved. It states "The mid-2019 est. population for the whole of Liverpool was 498,042....", which could be ambiguous as "the whole of Liverpool" could refer to a wider area. It might be better to say "the Metropolitan Borough...". The term "city" also has a specific meaning in the UK - as well as a more general meaning - which may be at variance with that used elsewhere, and we should be cautious about using the word. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:15, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, no idea why anyone would say "whole of Liverpool" unless they think something within Liverpool isn't actually, and City is pretty common parlance. It is used in 90% of the 60 or so cities I checked last time such as Manchester. The lede sentence is pretty much a carbon copy, as was, of those I checked to try and be neutral. Koncorde (talk) 11:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- Agreed with Ghmyrtle, the current wording of the opening paragraph is clear without misleading people about the figure which the 498,042 refers to. It can't be ambiguous. Correctus2kX (talk) 17:17, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Correctus2kX:That is not what Ghmyrtle said... Ghmyrtle is referring to the citation being ambiguous for using the term "whole of Liverpool" suggesting that there is a difference between the "whole" and the "not whole" He is not referring to the body text. Still no evidence as to what you are referring to here by suggesting there is a difference between Borough and City. Koncorde (talk) 17:33, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- Agreed with Ghmyrtle, the current wording of the opening paragraph is clear without misleading people about the figure which the 498,042 refers to. It can't be ambiguous. Correctus2kX (talk) 17:17, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, no idea why anyone would say "whole of Liverpool" unless they think something within Liverpool isn't actually, and City is pretty common parlance. It is used in 90% of the 60 or so cities I checked last time such as Manchester. The lede sentence is pretty much a carbon copy, as was, of those I checked to try and be neutral. Koncorde (talk) 11:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- I think he/she can speak for themselves. There is no implication of difference in making it clear which population definition is referred to by the 498,042 figure. Correctus2kX (talk) 17:59, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- Umm. They did when they said "I wonder if the text of the citation can be improved", and yes, the inference is clear that there is some difference, otherwise why would you try to insert it, particularly after failing to use "local authority" previously. You evidently believe this is somehow an improvement, but the prior discussion ended with you not responding at all when asked to clarify what you meant. If you are intending there not to be a difference between the two - then the clarification is not required. If you are intending there to be a difference, please provide a citation to that effect. Koncorde (talk) 18:05, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- I think he/she can speak for themselves. There is no implication of difference in making it clear which population definition is referred to by the 498,042 figure. Correctus2kX (talk) 17:59, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- I didn't comment on the opening sentence, only on the footnote. The clearest way of opening the article would be to say: "Liverpool is a city and metropolitan borough in Merseyside, England. Its population in 2019 was...." The city and borough are synonymous with each other. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:32, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I agree with Ghmyrtle and how they have suggested it be worded. If there is no evidence there is a difference between the city and borough stats then it serves no purpose using 'borough'. "Its population in 2019 was...." is right. LicenceToCrenellate (talk) 20:41, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
City nicknames
So I have never thought to really look at the list of nicknames, assuming they were obscure or irreverent because I have never heard of most of them, or only heard versions of them informally, but @Dyaluk08: did a fix tonight about some quotations and I notice the Jung quote which jarred as I remembered reading the full quote decades ago, and realised that's what we were sourcing the nickname claim to. Anyway, the Nickname tag at the top is meant to be used for names that are synonymous with the city (such as "The Big Apple" for New York), but all I can see or find are temporarily assigned titles (such as for promotional work for the City of Culture which have since been abandoned) or passing recognition from Guinness Book of Records (which I have added for the moment as at least it is sourced, and people might have a clue which city is being referred to it). Worryingly, some such as the "Pool of Life" have now been co-opted by a hotel chain who have had the great idea of adding a "copyright" to the titles of a variety of nicknames for cities all over the UK. Not sure how they hope to enforce that or whether it is only associated with the artwork. Anyway, if anyone can find some authoritative source for nicknames being used (and I know there were definitely some in the 1800's when Liverpool docks were considered a modern wonder of the world), let me know as otherwise it just seems like unsourced cruft. Koncorde (talk) 18:27, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:42, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Headers are broken
Can someone fix the headers? They're all messed up Sikiwucks (talk) 07:01, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
- Done --David Biddulph (talk) 07:11, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2021
Change "it" to "its" in "...led to it becoming a tourist destination." The gerund "becoming" requires a possessive pronoun to precede it in this case. Joshuawf01 (talk) 01:43, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Not done: "[has] led to it becoming a tourist destination" sounds like perfectly acceptable English to my non-grammatician ears. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 12:19, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Help sought
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Babydoll9799
I appear to be ambushed by a handful of users and I am seeking some help from the Liverpool area. I noticed an anomaliy with the "People from" category. It looked like the city of Liverpool had been replaced by districts within Liverpool. So for example someone from Toxteth, instead of saying their birthplace is Liverpool and "People from Liverpool" (as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_by_district_in_England) it is replaced by birthplace Toxteth and "People from Toxteth". I feel I have been treated quite shabbily because I have stood my ground. Babydoll9799 (talk) 21:11, 30 October 2021 (UTC)