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::Never saw the above talk because it was in the wrong place in the middle of a 4 year old discussion. It belongs here at the bottom. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:43, 5 June 2013 (UTC) |
::Never saw the above talk because it was in the wrong place in the middle of a 4 year old discussion. It belongs here at the bottom. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 07:43, 5 June 2013 (UTC) |
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::I just noticed something else. Editor "Sport and politics" is asking for no removal until this gets settled. I don't know the full battle going on here, but at least that's reasonable if it's been here awhile. What is not reasonable is the obverse... "Sport and politics" added the material to [[Grigor Dimitrov]] right in the middle of this. You can't have it both ways. That is unfair and I'm removing it until this is done with. [[User:Fyunck(click)|Fyunck(click)]] ([[User talk:Fyunck(click)|talk]]) 08:27, 5 June 2013 (UTC) |
Revision as of 08:27, 5 June 2013
![]() | Laura Robson has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
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![]() | Tennis GA‑class High‑importance | ||||||||||||||||
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External link issue
I have recently posted an external link for a profile of Laura Robson which has been repeatedly deleted. The link for Information Tennis I believe represents a good information resource for Wikipedia users as she is a rising star of the game and there is limited information available about her on the web. The website is independent and neither constitutes to spam or a personal website so i am at a loss to see how it could be deleted given that it can only aid users knowledge. I appreciate you have to moderate the section to ensure integrity of the site and this individual subject matter but I think there is somewhat of a witch-hunt against it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tennis Expert5 (talk • contribs) 23:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
British or Australian?
Is she really British, or is she an Australian who is representing GB at the moment because she is living here due to her dad's job? Will she represent GB as a senior, or go back to Australia? Wilbisher (talk) 18:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
- A moot point but she left Australia at the age of 18 months old and can remember nothing much about the place. She has lived in Wimbledon, London for ten years and her speaking voice is pure middle England. My gut feeling is she considers herself British, but only time will tell 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 19:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
- The BBC reference says she moved from Singapore to Britain when she was seven, and that was seven years ago and not ten. The LTA reference states her residence as Middlesex, but Wimbledon is not in Middlesex. Have you some source of information to resolve these contradictions? Coyets (talk) 08:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
- This quote in "The Sun" seems to suggest she's positively choosing to currently be a Brit over an Aussie. She's also supported by the LTA, and I don't think they would give her support if they were not sure of her alligence - althought technically, she could choose to be an Aussie an any point until she makes senior representation. I have also removed her category as an English tennis player - one of those where categorisation as a Brit is most appropriate. Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 09:20, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
- The 13 July Telegraph article says she's competed previously as an Aussie, and that Wimbledon was her first as a Brit. Given that (1) she's competed as both Aussie and Brit, and (2) she's not yet irrevocably bound to either nationality, I'm adding back the Aussie country tag in the infobox that got removed. I'll add it as second in the list as it isn't her current choice of country. Bazj (talk) 18:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- This reference clearly states that she lives within a 5 minute walk of the Wimbledon club. Perhaps the LTA reference is out of date. It also says she holds a British Passport. LHMike (talk) 20:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
British people seem fascinated by this. How is Laura Robson any less British than Martina Navratilova is American? Both are citizens of those countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.121.230 (talk) 22:58, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
She actually only just moved to Wimbledon, within the last 6 months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bunny87 (talk • contribs) 01:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Before changing it again please check Australian nationality law#Dual Citizenship and come up with some evidence she's renounced Australian nationality (if indeed a child is legally capable of renouncing nationality). Bazj (talk) 16:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Irrespective of what the details are of her present or past citizenship, the infobox should only include the country that she represents. Other details should be incorporated in text. LeaveSleaves 16:40, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- In which case, she's competed for both and hasn't passed the point of no return. I'll revert unless you come up a citable ref that she's irrevocably committed to Britain. Bazj (talk) 17:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- The point in question here is not her citizenship but her present representation. And that is Britain as can be confirmed here. Other details about prior representation or citizenship can go into the prose. LeaveSleaves 17:36, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I don't dispute that. She HAS competed for both, most recently for Britain. As a junior she is not irrevocably bound to either. She could just as easily play her next tournament as an Aussie. Bazj (talk) 18:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I don't think it is as simple as that. In order to confirm the representation it needs to be approved by International Tennis Federation. And at any point if a player wishes to change the representation s/he needs to have approval of both ITF and relevant national tennis authorities. So, I don't think your assumption that she can play for both countries at any point is incorrect. Now, if she does change her affiliation from GBR to AUS or any other nation, then infobox should be changed accordingly. If she has competed for AUS in the past (I'm not sure about this), then such information along with subsequent affiliation change should be accommodated in the prose. LeaveSleaves 19:46, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I don't dispute that. She HAS competed for both, most recently for Britain. As a junior she is not irrevocably bound to either. She could just as easily play her next tournament as an Aussie. Bazj (talk) 18:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- The point in question here is not her citizenship but her present representation. And that is Britain as can be confirmed here. Other details about prior representation or citizenship can go into the prose. LeaveSleaves 17:36, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- In which case, she's competed for both and hasn't passed the point of no return. I'll revert unless you come up a citable ref that she's irrevocably committed to Britain. Bazj (talk) 17:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Certainly sounds English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.52.188 (talk) 11:06, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Picture
Picture of Laura would be appropriate instead of tennis court which is currently showing. Anyone got decent picture of Laura? Hopwas2007 (talk) 09:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Youngest?
"The youngest competitor in the 2008 Wimbledon Championships[5]". Is that correct? Reference 5 says she was the youngest "left in the competition" at the staghe of the article. -- SGBailey (talk) 10:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
- The reference (BBC) states "Robson, who does not turn 15 until 21 January, was the youngest player in any event at this year's Wimbledon". Coyets (talk) 11:56, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
In relation to her age, is it really necessary to have a section on her early life? At 14/15 surely all of her life so far has been her early life?! 217.43.28.96 (talk) 19:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Just meant that the title may need altering rather than any of the content, not sure I made that entirely clear! 217.43.28.96 (talk) 19:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
'Playing style'
Is it possible to ascertain a player's style simply by analysing the statistics from a small number of matches at a single tournament? Also, phrasing such as 'she often hits high numbers of winners during her matches which in turn causes her to hit quite a few unforced errors as well' reads awkwardly and offers little in the way of insightful analysis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.227.103 (talk) 10:04, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Good points. I've removed it, echoing your thoughts above. The section is really opinion, and the references provided don't really back it up. Actually, in general for a sports person, I don't like these "playing style" sections. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 11:04, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Grand Slam results
The parameters in the infobox for these results is for achievements as a professional player and not as a junior. While there is mention of those being junior titles added to the infobox for clarification, I feel this is incorrect use of the parameters. Those should only be used for results as a senior player. LeaveSleaves 10:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry. I wanted to add junior results, since there are "australianopenjuniorresults" parameters and such, but they didn't show up. I've corrected it.
- Makes me wonder why those "junior results" parameters are in the infobox then. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 10:53, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- I tweaked the parameters to include junior results in the infobox. But now it is overly long with lot of blank spaces. LeaveSleaves 13:28, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- Well, I guess it's better than nothing. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 14:53, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- I tweaked the parameters to include junior results in the infobox. But now it is overly long with lot of blank spaces. LeaveSleaves 13:28, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
"Initially registered as an Australian for tennis purposes"
Seems a bit vague to me. Why would being registered as Australian help her for Tennis purposes? I don't see it explained elsewhere. Thanks --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 20:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- I've tweaked it a bit.
Height
Many are fully aware she has been through a growth spurt and now stands at 5'10. However, please refrain from changing this until an official source states it, or until the wta tour site updates their profile at the beggining of next year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maza1987 (talk • contribs) 21:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
- At the moment the page is updated with her current height. However, I don't understand Maza's argument. If it is correctly reported in the papers (as it is), there's no need to wait for the WTA to update their website. User:John Smith's (talk) 22:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Weight?
theres no weight written Madmaxxx (talk) 12:48, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Prize money
The Independentsays that she got a big cheque from the H-Cup. Where is the source for her prize money - would it take this into account? John Smith's (talk) 14:23, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Infobox results
Please do not update this every time she progresses in a major grand slam. An uninformed reader who didn't know she was still playing would think that's as far as she's gone. Just wait until after she has stopped progressing. John Smith's (talk) 10:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Middle name
Someone added a middle name but to the wrong place (see here). I've removed it though until we can find a reference. Besides, I think her middle name would belong in the lead. TheRetroGuy (talk) 13:16, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Too much detail
Sorry to be a critic, and apologies to the editors who have obviously put effort into this article, but I'm surprised it's considered a "good article". IMO the article is swamped by far too much match-by-match detail, rather than concentrating on the key events and milestones in her career so far. Another tennis article I've recently looked at, Li Na (tennis), has the exact same problem (see comment). It really isn't necessary or desirable, IMO, to fill page after page of career narrative with individual match results. If we really want to document these then a separate table (or even article) would be a better solution in my view. 86.181.201.14 (talk) 02:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
Sluts commments
Shouldn't this article have some mention of the controversy over her 'sluts' comments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.238.33 (talk • contribs)
- No, I don't think that's terribly important. It's more gossip/tabloid interest than real news or relevant to a biographical article. John Smith's (talk) 20:28, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
The Saviour of British Tennis
I love Laura and am sure she has a great future. But to call her the saviour of British tennis in a year when Andy Murray won Olympic gold and the US Open is absurd. Her achievements may well equal his in time. But used in the intro in the way that it is makes Laura seem arrogrant and boastful, and whoever wrote it is doing her no favours. David Kemp 21.09.12 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.146.100 (talk) 17:57, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- The actual source says The savior of British tennis? with a question mark, it is asking the question not calling her the savior. So really a minor talking point on a website is clearly not important enough for the article so I have removed it. MilborneOne (talk) 18:32, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Grand Slam results #2 - Jr results in infobox
I have created a section at the end of "Junior career" for Robson's junior slam results, so there's now no need to put them in the infobox, as it takes up too much space unnecessarily. Thetradge (talk) 01:30, 3 April 2013 (BST)
Stop trying to remove the junior results from the infobx they are relevant please can you demonstrate how they are not relevant before removing the results from the infobox they have been re-added multiple times. The information is completely sensible, proportionate and notable. She does not" lose" those results and they do not lose their relevance, they accurately and concisely demonstrate her career progression without being selective. 22:34, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'm just thinking that surely, since she is now no longer playing on the Junior Circuit, and is established in the World's Top. 50, having her junior results as equal in relevance as her pro results to me seems a bit unbalanced - plus I've not seen any other pros with the aforementioned layout on their pages. All I'm saying is that it doesn't seem to make sense, given that she has been on the professional tour for over a year now. Thetradge (talk) 16:21, 5 April (BST) —Preceding undated comment added 15:22, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- That is like saying just because John McEnroe plays in the Champions Series we should remove his non Champions Series playing results, which would be an absurd thing to do. Also just because it is not on other articles doesn't mean it is justification to remove it from here and doesn't meanthat the work in progress isn't to update the rest of the infoboxes. 16:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- That isn't really the same thing, mainly because a) they're not listed in his infobox, and b) McEnroe is still competing on the Champions Tour. He is a former professional tennis player, Laura is currently a professional tennis player, and from what I understand it's ones professional career that bears the most significance when reading up on a tennis player. Which is more significant, the fact that McEnroe won seven Grand Slam singles titles, or that he is currently competing in a post-retirement event for fun? I'm not trying to be awkward, I'm just trying to work out why other players of the same level such as Kristina Mladenovic, Sloane Stephens and Madison Keys also have their junior results in their infobars. What is your reasoning behind wanting to keep Robson's junior results there, when it would make much more sense, and save more space to have them printed at the bottom of the "Junior Career" section of her page? 17:29, 6 April 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thetradge (talk • contribs)
- The principle is the same, the principle you have asserted is when an individual finished playing at a certain level their previous results should be removed. If you wish to have a wider discussion on he inforbox please start a discussion on the Wikiproject tennis.. for info purposes here is the full list of possible parameters. For this section senior results are also included a as possible parameter.
| singlesrecord =
| singlestitles =
| highestsinglesranking =
| currentsinglesranking =
| AustralianOpenresult =
| AustralianOpenjuniorresult =
| AustralianOpenseniorresult =
| FrenchOpenresult =
| FrenchOpenjuniorresult =
| FrenchOpenseniorresult =
| Wimbledonresult =
| Wimbledonjuniorresult =
| Wimbledonseniorresult =
| USOpenresult =
| USOpenjuniorresult =
| USOpenseniorresult =
The results are relevant so please can you point out why they should not be included, other than the fact Robson is no longer a Junior, which is not a credible reason.
Sport and politics (talk) 19:02, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yes you have explained this already, my point is why don't other similarly aged players such as Madison Keys or Mónica Puig use said layout on their infobars? Why are THEIR junior results not as important as their Pro results, whilst Robson's are seen as equal in importance? That is the one question that I was more eager to have answered, as neither of those two, especially the latter, have had anywhere near as much success at the Slams as Robson has, yet their junior results are somehow seen as not as important. The reasoning you have given behind your argument implies that all professional players should have their junior results displayed alongside their professional ones, however I have come across very few players who have said layout implemented on their pages. Please explain this further to me, as I am yet to understand why on earth such a big deal is being made out of this!
- if the information is missing from other articles add it to the other articles Wikipedia does not work on the basis of this one doesn't so none must, just because the information hasn't yet been added. This is nothing to do with importance or anything else it is simply they have not been added. To be constructive go add the information on the other articles as opposed to damaging the infobox on this article, simply because other articles haven't had the information added. Be constructive add the information to the other articles. Sport and politics (talk) 20:19, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
IMHO it's better to have only professional grand slam results in the infobox, not junior results. Infobox is already so huge, so it's better to not add every little information there. Junior results can be tell on the article's text part. --Stryn (talk) 22:20, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
- Would you advocate removing senior results from senior players? in the interest of Infobox size. Infoboxes change per subject and this Infobox is no bigger or smaller than others, when compared to other sports articles. Take Motor Sports they parameters can make those Infoboxes huge. So size is a phony argument. This is about value to the article. She had a junior career not all playing professionals did. She won a Junior Grand Slam which is inherently notable, the inclusion adds value and is therefore warranted. Sport and politics (talk) 10:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
- If you take note of the article for Grigor Dimitrov, he won TWO Junior Slam titles, yet his Junior results take their place within the "Junior Career" section of his article, rather than in the infobox. You'll find the same thing with Monfils, Pavlyuchenkova (who both won THREE Junior titles), etc. The junior results don't have to be removed from the page completely, but rather given a small section at the end of the "Junior Career" section of the article, as pretty much ALL other successful junior players have!
- Just go ahead and add the junior results to the infoboxes of the other pages. Just because this article is the first to have the junior results in the infobox and others don't is meaningless. Wikipedia doesn't work like that. The results themselves need to be justified as not warranted not simply "it's nowhere else". That is like saying "cars are nowhere in this road therefore I cannot drive down the road." It is a ludicrous position with no weight. Justify that the actual results are not warranted other than taking the "no other article has them there for this one can't" position. At the moment the position being advanced for removal is fanciful nonsense. Sport and politics (talk) 18:29, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
- For reference please see Oliver Golding who has his junior results in his infobox without any objection. Sport and politics (talk) 19:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
- Not a great example, as Oliver Golding has yet to compete on the full circuit of the ATP, and is ranked outside of the world's top 400.
- He is still a winner of a Junior Grand Slam and it is listed uncontroversial in the infobox. Just because the player is not world famous doesn't make the example carry any less weight. Sport and politics (talk) 21:56, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
- The above is nonsense you are advocating no other results except professional results. Is there advocation for not having senior results as well? The results are notable. Just because she is no longer a junior doesn't mean the result magically disappear. I see this farcical argument about info box length and it is piffle. If infoboxes really are to long why not remove doubles results and mixed doubles results for players who have only won singles results or only now playing singles tournaments. Length as an argument is complete erroneous rubbish. Sport and politics (talk) 07:32, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
I would have to say that having both jr and pro results in the infobox is overkill, trivial and it plain looks bad. I don't see where it was ever discussed at the Tennis Project so there is no consensus either way. I would assume those editors who added those jr results to the template figured there were notable jr players whose results were the most important item to date. But one you start adding the pro/senior results those jr wins are simply minor trivia. Sure it can be mentioned in the article under something like "early years", but it really clogs the infobox and makes it harder to pick out the important pro results. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:22, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
- Join in the above discussion please do not start your own. Sport and politics (talk) 07:31, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
- Never saw the above talk because it was in the wrong place in the middle of a 4 year old discussion. It belongs here at the bottom. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:43, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
- I just noticed something else. Editor "Sport and politics" is asking for no removal until this gets settled. I don't know the full battle going on here, but at least that's reasonable if it's been here awhile. What is not reasonable is the obverse... "Sport and politics" added the material to Grigor Dimitrov right in the middle of this. You can't have it both ways. That is unfair and I'm removing it until this is done with. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:27, 5 June 2013 (UTC)