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* [[Białystok]] - no alternative names in the lead, alternative names presented in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82ystok#Etymology a separate section] ([[User:Iaaasi|Iaaasi]] ([[User talk:Iaaasi|talk]]) 15:06, 8 March 2011 (UTC)) |
* [[Białystok]] - no alternative names in the lead, alternative names presented in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82ystok#Etymology a separate section] ([[User:Iaaasi|Iaaasi]] ([[User talk:Iaaasi|talk]]) 15:06, 8 March 2011 (UTC)) |
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:For the record: difficult to take Iaaasi seriously if at all possible. Once I had reported this user for a violation of 3RR and soon after his interest in editing the article White Carpathians that I had edit just before I filled my 3RR report concerning Iaaasi, ''"resuscitated"''[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=White_Carpathians&diff=prev&oldid=342365070]. ''(Nauneim is a confirmed sockpuppet of Iaaasi which was created on the ground that the user was unable to wait until his 3RR block comes to an end.)'' But after the 3RR block had expired, the user also continued editing the article with a 3O request there. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:White_Carpathians] |
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:Also, it is interesting to note that the user was blocked for indefinite time for having made a hate mongering type of user page aimed at Hungarians[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Iaaasi&oldid=347910701] .Then the user had made more than 15 confirmed sockpuppets.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Iaaasi] and the fact that the user is allowed to edit the English Wikipedia , again, thanks to a very long a steadfast IRC canvassing with which he bamboozled some administrators by making a promise to be good. So that I have superabundantly enough reasons to ignore the user. In addition, the user keeps Wikihouunding me after he received his second chance type of unblock, and keeps posting a lot of spam messages on my talk page, for which I am upset. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nmate&action=history]--[[User:Nmate|Nmate]] ([[User talk:Nmate|talk]]) 16:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC) |
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::Nmate, your post is completely off-topiic. I don't see how your comments are relevant in the current discussion. If you have any accusations to make, a administrators' noticeboard is the right place, not the talk page of a specific article ([[User:Iaaasi|Iaaasi]] ([[User talk:Iaaasi|talk]]) 16:48, 8 March 2011 (UTC)) |
::Nmate, your post is completely off-topiic. I don't see how your comments are relevant in the current discussion. If you have any accusations to make, a administrators' noticeboard is the right place, not the talk page of a specific article ([[User:Iaaasi|Iaaasi]] ([[User talk:Iaaasi|talk]]) 16:48, 8 March 2011 (UTC)) |
Revision as of 16:52, 8 March 2011
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Town vs City
town vs city -- I guess calling Kosice a city rather than a town is better, since it's not a small place either by Slovakian or Central European standards. I usually use the word "city" for settlements that have more than 100,000 inhabitants. Also, if I'm correct, traditionally a settlement with a cathedral or university was called city, and Kosice definitely has a cathedral. (If it's Slovakia's 2nd largest city then I suppose it also has to have an university.) Alensha 22:05, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The rules for the use of town vs. city in English differ from source to source and from country to country. As a result, there is no genuine rule. For me, a city begins above 500 000 or 1000 000 inhabitants. But in medieval central Europe, for example, the legal term seems to be generally "town". Juro 18:57, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Easternmost Gothic cathedral?
"easternmost gothic cathedral in Europe" -- check Cathedral of Saint Michael, Cluj-Napoca. Cluj-Napoca is 46°47′N 23°34′E -- that should be eastern. ;-) (Virgo47)
- The article now states that it is the easternmost "in Central Europe", not the easternmost of all Europe. Lisa the Sociopath (talk) 22:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
- The online articles linked in the references section claim all of Europe, but that's probably wrong. Lisa the Sociopath (talk) 22:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Košice and Slovak Soviet Republic
There is quite a serious factual error in this article. Slovak Soviet Republic was established in the town of Prešov, not in Košice! In fact it was not even associated with it. Please view Slovak Soviet Republic article where it is mentioned. Please be so kind and delete this reference before someone stumbles on it... Thank youuuuuu
Matus
Redirect from Kosice?
I would like to point to the ongoing discussion about the Kosice article at User talk:Juro. If more editors are interested in this issue (Kosice as an article spearate from Košice or a redirect to Košice), feel free to state your opinion here or in the original discussion. Tankred 18:12, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Pronunciation Request
Just to make thing easier for those who subvocalise, could we include phonetic pronunciations of both cities' names? Normally, I would recommend doing it on the individual pages, but as the town in the Czech Republic has no page... samwaltz 00:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Carpeted
Someone should create an article about how the city was attacked by a formation of unidentified bombers in mid-1941, which is both a long-standing historical mystery and had severe consequences, e.g. Hungary joined WWII (Operation Barbarossa) because of that. I would fill the article with info.
Citations?
Where do the data for the "Population in the past" section come from? Is there any source for these numbers? Tankred (talk) 00:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
- As far as I can tell User:Juro has added that list (though in bit different form), as shown in this diff. To complicate matters, he is banned and so we can't tell from where he could take information. So if we don't find adequate sourcing for the whole part, I'd suggest to remove this one. MarkBA what's up?/my mess 13:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
- Removed. As a kind of "compensation" I've decided to include historical population. MarkBA what's up?/my mess 18:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Why I changed the main picture
Sure, the artistic image of St.Elisabeth Cathedral is gorgeous. However, this is the article about the town, not one building. Therefore I hope you agree the current picture represents the town better. The picture of Dome would be appropriate for the separated article about this beautiful cathedral which is still missing.--Oficeri (talk) 23:45, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Would you like if the article consisted about the cathedral? Your wish has already passed into the reality! Just take a glace at St. Elisabeth Cathedral--Nmate (talk) 15:43, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
- I am always for the panorama or skyline image in infobox but the Reprezentatívne Košice.jpg image is of rather poor quality, it is seriously oversaturated and of tiny resolution. It simply doesn't deserve to be in the infobox. So try finding an image that shows the city but that is of higher quality.--Avala (talk) 12:25, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Purportedly, Happenstance and I are in dispute over content...
Happenstance, did you come here to cause me a lot of chagrin?--Nmate (talk) 06:19, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
- No, not at all. Your use of IPA is entirely illogical - /Kɒʃʃɒ/ makes absolutely no sense. One of those letters doesn't even exist in the IPA, and the rest is actually unpronounceable by human vocal cords. May I ask where your problem with the table of city names lies? I find it quite informative and it is sourced by a book published by the Slovak Academy of Sciences. —what a crazy random happenstance 13:59, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
- To the best of my knowledge: before the 20th century, this town had never ever been inhabited by significant Slovak population. I suggest gleaning the internet in order to prove that the town had a Slovak population as early as the 14th century because your source is scanty. However, I'd rather you fetched Engilsh sources instead of the Slovak ones, due to my bad experience with them.--Nmate (talk) 10:28, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
- I find it hard to believe a politically-independent national academy of sciences in any free country would publish anything of questionable or below-par academic standards. It would be suicidal of them to do so, they would be discredited immediately. On the other hand, any whackjob can prattle off anything he wants to on the Internet. There is absolutely no contest between the two. 'To the best of your knowledge' is the pivotal phrase here - your knowledge is not comprehensive. Neither is mine, which is why I defer to an academic source. —what a crazy random happenstance 15:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
- To the best of my knowledge: before the 20th century, this town had never ever been inhabited by significant Slovak population. I suggest gleaning the internet in order to prove that the town had a Slovak population as early as the 14th century because your source is scanty. However, I'd rather you fetched Engilsh sources instead of the Slovak ones, due to my bad experience with them.--Nmate (talk) 10:28, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
- But what if there are no Hungarian sources being able to reinforce what the Slovak sources are saying?--Nmate (talk) 18:22, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
- The question is not whether there are additional sources that confirm it, the question whether there are academic sources that refute it. To the best of my knowledge there aren't, and there is no reason not to give full faith and credit to the initial source. —what a crazy random happenstance 06:00, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
- But what if there are no Hungarian sources being able to reinforce what the Slovak sources are saying?--Nmate (talk) 18:22, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
- I like the table. It is based on two (2) scholarly publications, which are not very difficult to read, that are widely accepted as authoritative regarding the history of the names of various settlements in what is now Slovakia. Gocontributor 16:02, 16 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gocontributor (talk • contribs)
Do you dispute the fact that the Slovak language never was officially recognized in the Kingdom of Hungary?--Nmate (talk) 04:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
- How is the fact relevant? A government need not recognise a language for the language to exist and be used, as is obvious. —what a crazy random happenstance 06:15, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
- Splendid, in 1880 in Košice cca 50 percent of population were Hungarian and 33 percent were Slovaks - ie you were wrong in the previous statement. Alas there is no need for any hungarian sources to reinforce the statement of Slovak Academy Science which is considered even by Hungarian academy science to be reliable scientific institution, in other words it is realiable source and we don´t need any hungarian source to reinforce it. However if Hungarian academy of science, or whoever else would attack this statement and provide some other claims than there would a problem and a reason for this discussion, but it didn´t happen. Also I hope you do not suggest that we should remove all sources from Hungarian academy of science and Hungarian historians from all Hungary-related articles, am I correct? Because that would a LOT of work. --EllsworthSK (talk) 12:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
This is an article about the present day city of Košice and its history. An attempt to distinguish "Hungary" from "Slovakia" is pointless. Hungary ruled the area for nearly 1,000 years. The now Slovakia was Hungary until the end of World War I when the forced union of several eastern European lands made other countries such as Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, and Ruthenia under the treaty of St. Germain and the treaty of Trianon. Until then it was Hungary. Whether or not the Hungarian government recognized "Slovak" as a language is pointless, the language existed and still does. The central government attempted to prohibit and remove that dialect of eastern European language, particularly in the 1800s under the oppressive "Maygar - ization". It failed and the language survived. Most Hungarians call Košice Kassa, so what - - - how do you pronounce Paris? Copenhagen? Louisville? Beijing? Does your pronounciation bring those cities under your county's control? Slovak is a language, but it can also be regarded as a regional dialect. "How are you?" is generally "Ako sa mat?" but in north eastern Slovakia it is "Jak sa maš?", much like Polish. The language and accents of those in Prague (Praha = Bohemia) differs from that in Brno = Moravia. It is known that some from Prague look at those from Brno as being somewhat colloquial and bumpkinish. This is not a forum to present your personal feelings about a subject but to provide what is factual and supported with accepted literature citations. If a citation is not in English it has no impact as long as it is a reliable source. Continued removal, undoing, reverting, etc. (fooling around) with a valid list of former names of the city borders on the Wikipedia definition of vandalism and those who continue to pursue this practice will be warned and perhaps banned. It is time to close the book on this and move to more productive writing.76.120.176.96 (talk) 03:33, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Page protected
Please contact myself or another administrator when you've come to an agreement about your content dispute.--Tznkai (talk) 20:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
- Sure, why not, however I stand my ground - the name table, as seen in the article, is well sourced by Slovak academy of science - it removal by Nmate is nothing more than vandalism and I see no, absolutely not single one, reason why should anyone look for the same table in something published by Hungarian academy of science, as Nmate proposed, that´s just utter non-sense. --EllsworthSK (talk) 20:59, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
- A full page protect hardly seems necessary considering it is only one editor who keeps reverting against a consensus reached by several others. It ought to be used only very sparingly, and it should not have been used here. The fairly brusque comment was also uncalled for. —what a crazy random happenstance 16:37, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Let's hide nothing under a bushel if Happenstance wants to have further colloquy!
- 1, It is strikingly perceptible that this list startes to obey the official laws immadiately after the treaty of Trianon for undecipherable and capricious reasons. But we do not know why.
- 2, There is an official memory table on the inner wall of the Bratislava City Museum [1] indicating that Pozsony was also called Bratislava as early as the first half of the 19th century by the dwellers of the city, which is obviously ludicrous. So that the Slovak academic sources are hardly able to dissipate my scrupulous in connection with the credibility of this information.
- 3, Just interesting to note that we know by Squash Racket's recounting that you Happenstance are also prone to delete sources that you do not sympathize with.--Nmate (talk) 20:50, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
- You are hardly more trustworthy than academia. If you disagree with an academic resource, find another academic resource that refutes the former, don't just remove it. The incident to which you refer involved me removing content because it was irrelevant, and with the consent of other neutral editors. Here, you are removing content because, you, personally, find it disagreeable. There is a world of difference between the two, and even if there wasn't, what are you trying to say? That because you saw someone else do something that you believe is wrong, you should now get to do it too? —what a crazy random happenstance 23:35, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- 1, Or so do you say.
- 2, A, Name Bratislava was first beeing used by the group around Štúr, that means in first half of 19th century.
- 2, B, So now we should ignore WP:NOR because you declared yourself to be more reliable source than Slovak academy of science. Wow, just wow.
- 3, Completely irrelevant. --EllsworthSK (talk) 16:26, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Pending Page Protection
This article has been excluded from the pending changes trial because there is lack of disruptive activity here that would justify applying any type of page protection here, specifically, semi-protection. If you think there is a need for this page to be protected, please make a request at WP:RFPP, as pages that are not candidates for page protection under current WP:PP is not to be protected under WP:PCP as well. 山本一郎 (会話) 03:12, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
- It was never going to get pending changes protection. PC is mainly to stop vandalism, not to add a new piece of ammunition to an edit war. I have now fully protected the article. GedUK 10:30, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Page protection
I've protected this page as it is currently the subject of an edit war. Please use the article talk page to reach agreement on whether the names section should stay in. Once consensus is agreed, it can be enforced, if necessary. GedUK 10:29, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
- It´s been more than a week since last edit on this talk-page so we can assume that agreement was reached. Please remove the lock. --EllsworthSK (talk) 14:47, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Nick name
Kosice has no nickname. Sometime, rarely stupid adjective like town of tolerance (but Kosice is not more tolerant as other regions) is used but not as nicname. I am from Kosice, and I never heard about city of Rakoczi. Both are just rarely or never used fabulous adjectives but absolurly definitely not nickname. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.5.210.202 (talk) 09:49, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Hungarian name
I'd like to ask a third opinion about this edit. User:Nmate is a user I had many divergences with in the past and I am afraid that if I don't ask for assistance in this moment the things would degenerate into an edit war.
So the explanation of my revert is: The article already contains a Names section so it would be redundant to write the Hungarian name Kassa also in the lead. A similar example is the article about Novi Sad, where Hungarian is even a co-official language and it is not displayed in the lead, but in the Names section (Iaaasi (talk) 20:35, 5 March 2011 (UTC))
Response to third opinion request (Disagreement on naming in the introduction): |
I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Košice and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. |
I think that the Hungarian name should not be displayed in the lead. If there is a specific naming section, then that should be utilised to provide alternative languages. Since there is clearly a need for the names section, it should be used. Whereas other articles have alternative names (which can cause confusion if there is a serious difference in spelling, such as Kastelorizo and Megisti (but there is no specific names section)) there is a need for more than one name in the introduction. However, since there is a name section, it should be used.—Panpanman (talk) 11:57, 8 March 2011 (UTC) |
That is nothing more than an opinion that has no binding power. I am not obliged to accept it, and I am not going to. Notwithstanding the fact that Cluj-Napoca has an ethymology section, Kolozsvár is also mentioned in the lead. Not to mention the fact that what Iaaasi is doing is Wikihounding. --Nmate (talk) 12:23, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
On reading your example of Cluj-Napoca, I am actually tempted to change my decision. I only focused on the example I knew of (as above) and the one provided. I would not normally revert a WP:3O decision, but since User:Nmate had made no comment prior to the third opinion, I will ask you both to provide two or three examples of any city, country or province that supports your argument to have the alternative name in the introduction or not. Panpanman (talk) 14:58, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Other examples:
- Esztergom - no alternative names in the lead, alternative names presented in Names Section
- Szombathely - no alternative names in the lead, alternative names presented in Names Section
- Białystok - no alternative names in the lead, alternative names presented in a separate section (Iaaasi (talk) 15:06, 8 March 2011 (UTC))
- For the record: difficult to take Iaaasi seriously if at all possible. Once I had reported this user for a violation of 3RR and soon after his interest in editing the article White Carpathians that I had edit just before I filled my 3RR report concerning Iaaasi, "resuscitated"[2]. (Nauneim is a confirmed sockpuppet of Iaaasi which was created on the ground that the user was unable to wait until his 3RR block comes to an end.) But after the 3RR block had expired, the user also continued editing the article with a 3O request there. [3]
- Also, it is interesting to note that the user was blocked for indefinite time for having made a hate mongering type of user page aimed at Hungarians[4] .Then the user had made more than 15 confirmed sockpuppets.[5] and the fact that the user is allowed to edit the English Wikipedia , again, thanks to a very long a steadfast IRC canvassing with which he bamboozled some administrators by making a promise to be good. So that I have superabundantly enough reasons to ignore the user. In addition, the user keeps Wikihouunding me after he received his second chance type of unblock, and keeps posting a lot of spam messages on my talk page, for which I am upset. [6]--Nmate (talk) 16:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)