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::How about: "In 2020, Rowling expressed views often described as transphobic, receiving criticism from many individuals and organisations, including intersectional feminists, and receiving support from others, including gender critical feminists." Obviously, that's way too long, but you get the idea. We won't be mentioning individuals in the lead, pro- ''or'' anti-Rowling. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the content. Please note neutrality is '''absolutely key'''. One might question the good faith of someone proposing an obviously biased sentence for the lead. No using baiting language in the article ''or this talk page'' - terms such as "SJW", should be avoided. [[User:Bastun|<span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">Bastun</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Bastun|Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!]]</sup> 01:10, 2 February 2021 (UTC) |
::How about: "In 2020, Rowling expressed views often described as transphobic, receiving criticism from many individuals and organisations, including intersectional feminists, and receiving support from others, including gender critical feminists." Obviously, that's way too long, but you get the idea. We won't be mentioning individuals in the lead, pro- ''or'' anti-Rowling. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the content. Please note neutrality is '''absolutely key'''. One might question the good faith of someone proposing an obviously biased sentence for the lead. No using baiting language in the article ''or this talk page'' - terms such as "SJW", should be avoided. [[User:Bastun|<span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">Bastun</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Bastun|Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!]]</sup> 01:10, 2 February 2021 (UTC) |
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::: The term {{tq|gender critical feminists}} isn't used in the article, so I don't see how it could feature in the lede as part of a summary of the article. It also isn't an NPOV term, so probably some other term should be used. I agree with the LEADFOLLOWSBODY approach and that the controversy seems DUE for inclusion. Indeed, it seems likely to reflect the only thing many Gen Z people will remember about JKR. [[User:Newimpartial|Newimpartial]] ([[User talk:Newimpartial|talk]]) 01:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC) |
::: The term {{tq|gender critical feminists}} isn't used in the article, so I don't see how it could feature in the lede as part of a summary of the article. It also isn't an NPOV term, so probably some other term should be used. I agree with the LEADFOLLOWSBODY approach and that the controversy seems DUE for inclusion. Indeed, it seems likely to reflect the only thing many Gen Z people will remember about JKR. [[User:Newimpartial|Newimpartial]] ([[User talk:Newimpartial|talk]]) 01:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC) |
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::::How about a quick & ugly tiny reword "In 2020, Rowling expressed views often described as transphobic, receiving criticism from many individuals and organisations, including intersectional feminists, and receiving support from others, including feminists who are critical of transgenderism." <span class="unicode" style="text-shadow:0.1em 0.1em 0.1em #777777">[[User:Bodney|<span style="font-family:Papyrus;color: #660099 ;"> ~ BOD ~ </span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Bodney#top|<small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK</small>]]</sup></span> 01:50, 2 February 2021 (UTC) |
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Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2020
change "is a British writer and philanthropist." to "is a British writer and anti-trans activist." New Dawn2 (talk) 11:46, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{edit semi-protected}}
template. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 13:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC) - That change seems somewhat nonsensical anyway. Afaik all Rowling did was making a few "controversial" remarks, which aren't even anti-trans strictly speaking, but nevertheless sparked a highly aggressive media hype over supposedly being "anti-trans". That hardly qualifies her as an activist on transgender issues, neither pro nor anti. Moreover it is certainly no justification to drop "philanthropist" from the lead.--Kmhkmh (talk) 14:48, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- To be honest, I would have been tempted to remove it as being deliberately provocative, and not a serious request anyway. Chaheel Riens (talk) 15:13, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2020
1. "Change 'Her home life was complicated by her mother's diagnosis with multiple sclerosis[38] and a strained relationship with her father, with whom she is not on speaking terms.' to 'Her mother's diagnosis complicated her home life with multiple sclerosis[38] and a strained relationship with her father, with whom she is not on speaking terms.'." 2. Change 'then boyfriend' to 'then-boyfriend'." 3. Change ' Book were sold in its first day in the UK' to ' Book were sold on its first day in the UK'." 4. Change 'It sold 11 million copies in the first day of release in the United Kingdom and United States' to 'It sold 11 million copies on the first day of release in the United Kingdom and the United States'." 5. Change 'on a street with 24-hour security.' to 'on the street with 24-hour security.'." 6. Change 'Rowling was the first to visit her in hospital.' to 'Rowling was the first to visit her in the hospital.' Shefalisri (talk) 11:57, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- #2 Done, but the rest Not done as just plain ungrammatical, except for #6, which is merely a UK vs US difference. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 12:56, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Transgender views controversy in lead redux
There was a discussion several months ago about whether or not to mention the controversy around Rowling's views of transgender people in the lead. Seeing the media coverage of the possible TV series, e.g. [1][2][3], I think at this point it's very safe to say that this is a lasting part of her reputation and that it would be inappropriate to continue omitting it from the lead (especially given that we currently mention things like a list of the charities she supports, which has gotten far less coverage). Can we have some suggestions about possible wording, so that we can then find consensus on text to add? Courtesy pinging prior participants @Reschultzed, Crossroads, YuvalNehemia, -sche, Czello, Bodney, Bastun, Esowteric, Licks-rocks, and HPDEATHLYHALLOWS4:. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 21:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
- How about : In 2020, Rowling expressed alleged transphobic sentiments that were critiqued by many organizations and supported by many feminists and actors such a brian Cox.
- Please note neutrality is important
- No putting baiting language and words like Jk Rowling is a transphobe or terf shit that SJW would be too happy over such additions. Hpdh4 (talk) 23:21, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
- I believe that it is correct to include a neutral reference in the lead. Just replying at this stage, to the suggestion provided by Hpdh4 with respect I am not sure we have solid evidence of 'many' feminists and actors supporting her, but 'a few or maybe some' clearly do. Also why specifically mention Brian Fox who has zero relevance and not name any of the leading LGBT organisations that do not. That is not neutral ~ BOD ~ TALK 00:12, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
- How about: "In 2020, Rowling expressed views often described as transphobic, receiving criticism from many individuals and organisations, including intersectional feminists, and receiving support from others, including gender critical feminists." Obviously, that's way too long, but you get the idea. We won't be mentioning individuals in the lead, pro- or anti-Rowling. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the content. Please note neutrality is absolutely key. One might question the good faith of someone proposing an obviously biased sentence for the lead. No using baiting language in the article or this talk page - terms such as "SJW", should be avoided. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 01:10, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
- The term
gender critical feminists
isn't used in the article, so I don't see how it could feature in the lede as part of a summary of the article. It also isn't an NPOV term, so probably some other term should be used. I agree with the LEADFOLLOWSBODY approach and that the controversy seems DUE for inclusion. Indeed, it seems likely to reflect the only thing many Gen Z people will remember about JKR. Newimpartial (talk) 01:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)- How about a quick & ugly tiny reword "In 2020, Rowling expressed views often described as transphobic, receiving criticism from many individuals and organisations, including intersectional feminists, and receiving support from others, including feminists who are critical of transgenderism." ~ BOD ~ TALK 01:50, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
- The term
- How about: "In 2020, Rowling expressed views often described as transphobic, receiving criticism from many individuals and organisations, including intersectional feminists, and receiving support from others, including gender critical feminists." Obviously, that's way too long, but you get the idea. We won't be mentioning individuals in the lead, pro- or anti-Rowling. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the content. Please note neutrality is absolutely key. One might question the good faith of someone proposing an obviously biased sentence for the lead. No using baiting language in the article or this talk page - terms such as "SJW", should be avoided. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 01:10, 2 February 2021 (UTC)