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Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in an archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. Baristarim 05:21, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
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It's Not CALLED ISTANBUL
The proper title of this Article should be Constantinople. This Armenian Genocide is not a lie! Constantinople has been under occupation for 600 years, during this time it has been the site of genocide, pogroms, and government sponsored looting, pillaging, and destruction of Christian property.
Comment
It's no good to talk about an Armenian Genocide while it's not proven to be correct. Many historians in Turkey and in other countries don't believe that an Armeian Genocide ever existed. So it's inappropriate to talk about such an issue as if it's an internationally accepted issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.72.43 (talk • contribs)
- That's a silly argument. That's a good reason to talk about it! --AW 19:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- All the more reason to discuss, exactly! --Olivia Guest 02:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Name
Is this true? It was unsourced so I removed it:
"the name is a corruption of the greek phrase Eis-Tin-Poli which means towards the city"
--AW 21:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
- It's true. I have read it in many places and I thought it common knowledge. I think it should be added back in. In greek it is: Εις την πόλη (At/in the Poli=Constantinople) = Istanbul -- Olivia Guest 02:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Lock the Article
We must protect the article because there is an unsigned vandal editing stupid things. Deliogul 21:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, I think the guy stopped. Deliogul 22:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
- By the way, doesn't this article deserves to be a featured article? I think it is even better than the articles of some nations. Deliogul 19:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- Deliogul why not take this job as ur task, we can help you on the way.--OttomanReference 20:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- Then you must wait until 20 January. I have some important final exams :) I will start to work after the end of the finel week. Deal? Deliogul 21:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- You might need to visit a library and get some real data; the text is full of &*^%$ I'm not a citizen of Istanbul, just familiarity, so I did not feel like correcting. --OttomanReference 21:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- University's library will be a good choice. After finals, I will scan the article to find the weak points so I can borrow books from library according to my findings. See you, Deliogul 22:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Edits of Ottomanreference
I think we need to revert ottomanreference's edits before its too late because
- 1.the images cannot be used as illustrative purposes anymore.
- 2.most descriptive sections are deleted (like administration,airpors,railroads,etc..),, and really unnecessary and confusing ones were created like urban design section is mixed with city arrangement and population growth which is not its place.Things like utilities can be mentioned in broader groups too.
- 3.some useless charts were created like in population growth while it is important to see exact dates like 1453 which is not obvious in the charts.
- 4.some things are listed although they mustnt have been.
although it doesnt look too bad overall, i think someone has to add what ottomanreference has been doing well to the previous version because now the main structure of the article is broken and will be too difficult to fix soon. 85.97.42.216 14:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
- The article is in improvement drive; the structure of the article should be same as other featured cities. (a) no content is removed. All the previous content is there. (b) The extensive number of pictures are under the lists related to Istanbul; see the relevant "lists sectio." (c) this is more than a month long improvement drive, the pics to the article will be organized afther the work on the text will be finished. Not this is an encyclopedia not a catalog, it has to include significant amount of information not significant amount of pics.OttomanReference 14:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
- I wish the users who adds these images (tons of it) would be interested in the improvement of the lists. The lists are presented as main pages for the relevant sections in the article. OttomanReference 14:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
For the relevant parts: OttomanReference 18:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
- List of museums and monuments in Istanbul
- List of urban centers in Istanbul
- List of universities in Istanbul
- List of schools in Istanbul
- List of architectural structures in Istanbul
- List of columns and towers in Istanbul
- List of libraries in Istanbul
Symbol of Istanbul Municipality
I think the symbol is relevant and deserves inclusion in the infobox, but in a better, clearer form. Certainly this exists on the internet: [1] or [2]. Can such a logo be appropriated under fair use? Otherwise, there is that on the commons, though it also took lacks a certain quality the page deserves.--Patrickneil 19:16, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Could you help us with the blue version of this logo. + is it possible to have it named as Logo? Even if it may be used as a flag, Turkish constitution do not enable it to be named as "flag". The administrative divisions (including municipals) do not have official flags in Turkey. Thanks --OttomanReference 19:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
There are logos in various formats in this official address. I think they can be used under fair use, since this page is titled "press materials", it is as if they are for use in media. The example above is not good, this logo is not usually on a red background. It is not a flag for sure, but apart from being the logo of the municipality, it is a kind of symbol for the city as well. Filanca 12:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
History
I think it is a shame that while there is so much information about the history of Constantinople, yet, so little about history of Ottoman and Turkish Istanbul in this encyclopedia. Filanca 12:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Crime
Crime is an integral part of city information. Represented under demographics; some examples from featured cities:--OttomanReference 16:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
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User:Shuppiluliuma and crime section
User User:Shuppiluliuma, this is a city article. Two days ago you were deleting this section. Today, most of the information you are adding belongs to demographics of Turkey. Please, do not include information which has factual problems, such as Ugur Mumcu did not killed in Istanbul. Or your extensive definition of what a petty crime should be located in its own page. Thanks for your efforts. --OttomanReference 20:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Tag
Tag is in relation to the statement
- Istanbul is also the only city in history which served as the capital of three different empires: the Roman Empire (330-395), Byzantine Empire (395-1453) and the Ottoman Empire (1453-1922)
This statement is not only childish in understanding, but false in content. A western scholar invented the term "Byzantine" because some Westerners then were under the delusion that the Roman Empire fell in the 5th century, and that the poor, backward and peripheral western provinces still constituted the Empire's core in the 5th century, which of course was the opposite of the truth. But let's ignore this and pretend that the Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire were two different empire; well, Beijing was capital of at least 7 different Empires, including the State of Yan, Later Jin Dynasty, the Yuan Dynasty and Mongol Empire, became capital of the Ming Dynasty, and the Qing Dynasty, . Xi'an (Chang'an) of ten. Babylon was capital of the Babylonian Empire, the neo-Babylonian Empire and became capital of the Persian Empire; as Ctesiphon-Seleucia was capital of the Parthian and Sassanid Empires, and as Baghdad capital of the Abbasid Empire. For this reason and others, claims about being only city to be capital of three Empires is false, both because it was only capital of two AND because other cities have like or greater honours. I tried many different ways to accomodate Shuppiluliuma (talk · contribs), but he reverted every one for this. I've got no option now but to tag the article. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 22:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Capital contradiction
In Ottoman Empire, Istanbul is listed as the fourth capital. Here, "Istanbul became the third capital of the Ottoman Empire in 1453." Clearly the same convention should be used on both of these articles. Calbaer 17:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Different "dynasties" don't make different "empires". The Byzantine Empire had 16 different dynasties
Calgacus, different "dynasties" don't make different "empires".
If we "unzip" the Byzantine Empire into its different dynasties (the same way in which the Chinese Empire is "unzipped" into different dynasties) we'll see that there were 16 different Byzantine dynasties, with no bloodline connection at all.
See List of Byzantine emperors (dynasties)
In that case, we would have 16 different Roman/Byzantine Empires, plus the Latin Empire (1204-1261) and the Ottoman Empire (1453-1922) which makes a grand total (between 330 and 1922) of 18 different dynasties (empires with your logic) in which Istanbul still beats the crap out of Beijing or Babylon or any other example you can come up with.
Officially, though, Constantinople has been the capital city of the Roman Empire (330-395), the East Roman (Byzantine) Empire (395-1204 and 1261-1453), the Latin Empire (1204-1261) and the Ottoman Empire (1453-1922), which makes 4 empires.
These are "facts", not mere "opinions".
Also, the first settlement in Istanbul is not Byzantion. Byzantion was built on the site of Lygos, an ancient fishing settlement established by Thracian tribes between the 13th and 11th centuries BC, along with the neighbouring Semistra.
When the Greek colonists from Megara came, they actually first established Chalcedon (present Kadıköy) on Cape Moda at the Asian side in 685 BC. They later established Byzantion, in 667 BC, at the Seraglio Point, where Lygos used to stand. Several walls and substructures dating from Lygos are still found in this area. Also, the Phoenicians had established another settlement near Kadiköy-Üsküdar, on the Asian side, not to mention the settlement in Fikirtepe dating from 5500 BC. So Istanbul is actually much older than Byzantion.
These findings are recent enough, that's why you have to check the latest editions of Encyclopedia Britannica to see them (or Ana Britannica which is the Turkish edition).
I will add these details one by one (if ultranationalists and prejudiced illiterate editors permit, of course)
Regards. Shuppiluliuma 00:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Failed "good article" nomination
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of February 11, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:
- 1. Well written?: No, excessive use of subsections and incomplete paragraphs.
- 2. Factually accurate?: Not quite, claims of leadership in many areas not supported by references. One ref is a yahoo search?
- 3. Broad in coverage?: Short sections, but covers a broad range of topics.
- 4. Neutral point of view?: Not quite.
- 5. Article stability? No, atleast 5 reverts this month alone.
- 6. Images?: Copyright issues exist. (Eg. Image:Istanbul_from_above.jpg)
When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far. --Alan.ca 09:59, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I'll jump from the Bosphorus Bridge and commit suicide Shuppiluliuma 15:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Images in Istanbul
Following complaints from OttomanReference, I removed the images that I added to Istanbul from WowTurkey.Com, our web site. Feel free to upload your own images. I apologize for ruining everything. Regards. Shuppiluliuma 16:01, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I also removed Istanbul's "controversial" status as an imperial capital city in its past, which sounds "racist" according to OttomanReference (maybe he meant "chauvinistic", I can't see the "racism" here) Shuppiluliuma 16:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- ^ a b Police Services Division, Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General, Province of British Columbia (2006) Police and Crime: Summary Statistics: 1993 - 2005, pages 101, 106-110, 151, 154. ISSN 1198-9971