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:::::*Mr. Ken, You had reverted my [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=International_Art_Museum_of_America&diff=840327336&oldid=840325908 initial edit]; I came to this talk page to discuss my sources base on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beyond_My_Ken&diff=840337250&oldid=840336965 your request]. But now you are asking me to stop? This is the article talk page, not your user talk page. |
:::::*Mr. Ken, You had reverted my [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=International_Art_Museum_of_America&diff=840327336&oldid=840325908 initial edit]; I came to this talk page to discuss my sources base on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beyond_My_Ken&diff=840337250&oldid=840336965 your request]. But now you are asking me to stop? This is the article talk page, not your user talk page. |
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:::::*Let me redraw attention to the points that I have made earlier. First, which analysis in this [https://books.google.com/books?id=F0XNX3N1a2AC&pg=PA571 book] do you think that David Gray had made to support his conclusion that H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III is self-claimed? Second, which primary source in the book ''[http://www.sunmoonlight.org/book_72dpi/01-p065-138.pdf#page=42 Buddha Dharma]'' do you think shows that H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III is self-claimed instead of being recognized? [[User:Sleepy Beauty|Sleepy Beauty]] ([[User talk:Sleepy Beauty|talk]]) 23:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC) |
:::::*Let me redraw attention to the points that I have made earlier. First, which analysis in this [https://books.google.com/books?id=F0XNX3N1a2AC&pg=PA571 book] do you think that David Gray had made to support his conclusion that H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III is self-claimed? Second, which primary source in the book ''[http://www.sunmoonlight.org/book_72dpi/01-p065-138.pdf#page=42 Buddha Dharma]'' do you think shows that H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III is self-claimed instead of being recognized? [[User:Sleepy Beauty|Sleepy Beauty]] ([[User talk:Sleepy Beauty|talk]]) 23:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC) |
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:::::*Any edits you make not supported by reliable secondary sources will be deleted. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 01:24, 14 May 2018 (UTC) |
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[Untitled]
Hi world! We are new to wikipedia and learning to develop our page as we go. Any input is welcome and we appreciate a little time to fix the flags listed as we are new to this method of social media. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by IAMA (talk • contribs) 17:27, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Why H.H. Dorje Chang Buddha III doesn't have a wiki page?
He is quite talented, owns two museums. Isn't he notable enough to have a wiki page? Yurivict (talk) 06:31, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- What kind of encyclopedia would this be if we gave every small time personality cult leader their own page? MrEricSir (talk) 03:58, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
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H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III is not a self-claimed Buddha
According to H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III, A Treasury of True Buddha-Dharm, [1] the publishers (World Buddhism Publishing LLC and World Dharma Voice, Inc.) distributed some of the initial manuscripts of the book in 2006. After reading the initial manuscript, great dharma kings and rinpoches in the world practiced dharma and recognized Master Wan Ko Yee (the name of H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III prior to recognition) as the third reincarnation of Dorje Chang Buddha. On 7 September 2007, during the 110th Congress, the late chairman of the House Committee on International Relations Thomas Lantos invited his colleagues to pay tribute to Master Wan Ko Yee who had been recognized by world-renowned Buddhist masters as Dorje Chang Buddha III. [2] This is the earliest public record (that I can find) which mentions the title Dorje Chang Buddha III.
Copies of the book were presented to the Library of Congress by the International Buddhism Sangha Association in April 2008. [3] It was after this event that the public started to know that the incarnation of Dorje Chang Buddha had been recognized. The U.S. Congress formally addressed Dorje Chang Buddha III as H.H. Dorje Chang Buddha III in Senate Resolution No. 614. [4] Meanwhile, "Dorje Chang Buddha III" is a statutory name, according to the Office of H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III. [5]
The above evidence shows that H.H. Dorje Chang Buddha III is a recognized Buddha. By contrast, the LAist article [6] just said "a Pasadena man who claims to be the reincarnation of Buddha" without giving further details about when, where, under which circumstances H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III claimed to be a Buddha before the recognition. I welcome any challenge to the evidence that I presented as well as any evidence that supports the LAist article. Sleepy Beauty (talk) 13:04, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia prefers secondary sources that are independent of the subject - i.e. not by Yi or his followers. This book (reputable academic book) says that he "claims to be" Vajradhara. https://books.google.com/books?id=F0XNX3N1a2AC&pg=PA571 NPalgan2 (talk) 14:00, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- I checked out the book you mentioned. It is a collection of about 80 articles on Esoteric Buddhism. Only in the last paragraph of the article No. 55 (authored by David Gray) has a mention of H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III. David Gray says H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III "claims to be" Vajradhara and the claim is made in the book H.H. Dorje Chang Buddha III: A Treasury of True Buddha Dharma (abbreviated as Buddha Dharma in the following).
- However, according to the Congressional Record dated 29 September 2008, "Buddha Dharma is a book that contains testimonies and affirmations through written proclamations." [7] The recognitions and corroborations [part of testimonies and affirmations] are made by dharma kings and rinpoches from various Buddhist sects, who are independent of H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III and his followers. These recognition and corroboration letters are primary sources. Publishers made these letters public in the book Buddha Dharma [8] (recognitions start from page 42). Thus, the "Category 1 Recognitions and Congratulations" of the book Buddha Dharma is a secondary source.
- In the Congressional Record dated 7 September 2007, congressman Thomas Lantos made the remark that Master Wan Ko Yee had been recognized by "world-renowned Buddhist masters as Dorje Chang Buddha III"; [9] this remark is another testimony to the recognition of H.H. Dorje Chang Buddha III. Please note: this remark was made before the book Buddha Dharma was published in 2008.
- I saw you modified the article International Art Museum of America recently [10], changing "an artist who claims to be a reincarnation of Buddha" to "an artist who is considered to be a reincarnation of Buddha by his followers". Following your logic, do you consider congressman Thomas Lantos as a follower of H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III as well? Sleepy Beauty (talk) 23:28, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
- The Congressional Record is a record of things put into the Congressional Record by members of Congress, sometimes because of speeches made on the the floor of their house, but more often just by getting permission to put the material in the Record. It is not reliable source for anything except for the content of the Congressional Record. It is not even a reliable source for the opinions of the members of Congress who put the information in the Record, because they frequently do so at the request of their constituents. Thus, we cannot use the Congressional Record as a reliable source for this issue.The book the NPalgan2 cited is, however, a reliable secondary source, and is pretty usable for this article. Books which are collections of primary sources, on the other hand, are not secondary sources, they are simply collections of primary sources. What makes a secondary source is the interpretation and analysis of primary sources by independednt subject experts.In short, your attempt to whitewash this article, which I assume is being made on behalf of H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III, is not going to fly, anymore than the previous WP:COI and WP:POV editing on this article did. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:53, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- My friend, a secondary source does not need to be independent (WP:NOR). Also, could you please point me to the Wikipedia policies that require secondary sources be produced by experts? "[A secondary source] contains an author's analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources." However, in the book cited by NPalgan2, David Gray made a subjective conclusion on what he thought the book Buddha Dharma was about in a few sentences, without any decent analysis or evaluation that supported his conclusion. On the other hand, primary sources can be used to "make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary sources." Have you read any of those recognition letters (starting from page 42) in the book Buddha Dharma? Sleepy Beauty (talk) 06:07, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- I am not "your friend", and your changes are not going into the article, so you may as well stop. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:05, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- My friend, a secondary source does not need to be independent (WP:NOR). Also, could you please point me to the Wikipedia policies that require secondary sources be produced by experts? "[A secondary source] contains an author's analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources." However, in the book cited by NPalgan2, David Gray made a subjective conclusion on what he thought the book Buddha Dharma was about in a few sentences, without any decent analysis or evaluation that supported his conclusion. On the other hand, primary sources can be used to "make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary sources." Have you read any of those recognition letters (starting from page 42) in the book Buddha Dharma? Sleepy Beauty (talk) 06:07, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- The Congressional Record is a record of things put into the Congressional Record by members of Congress, sometimes because of speeches made on the the floor of their house, but more often just by getting permission to put the material in the Record. It is not reliable source for anything except for the content of the Congressional Record. It is not even a reliable source for the opinions of the members of Congress who put the information in the Record, because they frequently do so at the request of their constituents. Thus, we cannot use the Congressional Record as a reliable source for this issue.The book the NPalgan2 cited is, however, a reliable secondary source, and is pretty usable for this article. Books which are collections of primary sources, on the other hand, are not secondary sources, they are simply collections of primary sources. What makes a secondary source is the interpretation and analysis of primary sources by independednt subject experts.In short, your attempt to whitewash this article, which I assume is being made on behalf of H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III, is not going to fly, anymore than the previous WP:COI and WP:POV editing on this article did. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:53, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
- Mr. Ken, You had reverted my initial edit; I came to this talk page to discuss my sources base on your request. But now you are asking me to stop? This is the article talk page, not your user talk page.
- Let me redraw attention to the points that I have made earlier. First, which analysis in this book do you think that David Gray had made to support his conclusion that H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III is self-claimed? Second, which primary source in the book Buddha Dharma do you think shows that H. H. Dorje Chang Buddha III is self-claimed instead of being recognized? Sleepy Beauty (talk) 23:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- Any edits you make not supported by reliable secondary sources will be deleted. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:24, 14 May 2018 (UTC)