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'''Interim move, then Wait and See''' as nominator: Several editors have claimed that we will know in a few days. I agree with this, but I see clear problems with the current title as it violates [[WP:V]], a core principle. [[User:Wesley Mouse|Wesley Mouse]] is privy to internal documents using IOP and consider it likely that the IOC or LOCOG will shortly publish information using IOP. I consider this unlikely as LOCOG has started using IOA after the dispute started. Nevertheless, there is a fear that a premature move would cause the article to be incorrectly titled during the Games. For these reasons I propose that the article is moved to the title currently supported by the sources given in the discussion above, but that the discussion remains officially open until the Opening Ceremony, to have a handy place to report new findings without having to open a new move request. [[Special:Contributions/85.167.109.186|85.167.109.186]] ([[User talk:85.167.109.186|talk]]) 21:07, 22 July 2012 (UTC) |
'''Interim move, then Wait and See''' as nominator: Several editors have claimed that we will know in a few days. I agree with this, but I see clear problems with the current title as it violates [[WP:V]], a core principle. [[User:Wesley Mouse|Wesley Mouse]] is privy to internal documents using IOP and consider it likely that the IOC or LOCOG will shortly publish information using IOP. I consider this unlikely as LOCOG has started using IOA after the dispute started. Nevertheless, there is a fear that a premature move would cause the article to be incorrectly titled during the Games. For these reasons I propose that the article is moved to the title currently supported by the sources given in the discussion above, but that the discussion remains officially open until the Opening Ceremony, to have a handy place to report new findings without having to open a new move request. [[Special:Contributions/85.167.109.186|85.167.109.186]] ([[User talk:85.167.109.186|talk]]) 21:07, 22 July 2012 (UTC) |
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:Could you please rephrase or strikeout parts of the comments referencing myself; as the wording of it is coming across that you are accusing me of being a liar - the fact that you have stated I am privy to information and then say you think it is unlikely, is literally coming across as you accusing me of being a liar, and I am deeply offended by it. And remember too that there is [[WP:TIND|no rush]] with Wikipedia, plus it isn't always about [[WP:WINNING|winning]] either. If people seem to be swaying to the wait and see idea, then we best do that. Plus this discussion has yet to complete the 7 day period, there is most certainly no clear [[WP:SNOW|snowball]] consensus in either direction here, so you shouldn't be trying to get this RM wrapped up before the 7 days are over. <b style="background:#807241">[[User:Wesley Mouse|<font color="#FFE93E" face="Eurostile">Wesley</font>]] [[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<font color="#FFFFFF" face="Eurostile">''Mouse''</font>]]</b> 21:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC) |
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South Sudanese participant
Per this link a South Sudanese runner will also participate independently http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/trackandfield/story/_/id/8186507/2012-olympics-runner-country-compete-olympics — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.170.5.75 (talk) 14:53, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Independent or Netherlands Antilles?
Are there any more than two competitors here? If not, should the article be named in a way that's clearer as to why they are independent participants? Andy Dingley (talk) 00:07, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
- Currently only 2 athletes from the Netherlands Antilles have qualified, potentially we could see a swimmer qualify too. Officially we don't know what name athletes from Netherlands Antilles will compete as. Originally it was decided to use IOP until further notice due to the potential of Kosovo and South Sudan also competing as IOPs as well. Nothing has been said about South Sudan (though it seems that they probably won't compete) and Kosovo's athlete has been told no and is now officially representing Albania. I guess we could write down the reason why Netherlands Antilles no longer has an NOC recognized by the IOC.JoshMartini007 (talk) 05:28, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
- A source for the choice of IOP as country code would be appreciated. Other options include IOA or IOC. IOP was used for a nation under sanctions and would seem an odd choice, IOA was used for a newly independent nation and IOC was used most recently, albeit not at the Olympic Games. 88.88.163.201 (talk) 22:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Now a non-debate due to the inclusion of an athlete from South Sudan. Sport and politics (talk) 23:55, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
This page should be moved
The official name for athletes competing under the Olympic flag has now been announced here as Independent Olympic Athletes.130.88.141.34 (talk) 17:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Requested move
Independent Olympic Participants at the 2012 Summer Olympics → Independent Olympic Athletes at the 2012 Summer Olympics – They are referred to as Independent Olympic Athletes at the official site, and it also closely matches the source for the IOC decision. As reliable sources show that these athletes will compete as Independent Olympic Athletes and not as any of the similar designations used in the past, the article should be moved according to WP:AT. The move should be implemented as soon as possible so the article is not incorrectly titled when the games begin. There are no sources available to people outside LOCOG for 2012 use of Independent Olympic Participants. 88.88.160.158 (talk) 23:16, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Support- Comment. The phrase "There are no sources for 2012 use of Independent Olympic Participants" isn't exactly true, as there are some sources that reference IOPs as well as sources that references IOAs, hence why there had been several debates over the naming issue since April this year. I also explained that as a Games Maker, I was privy to internal documents which also listed three nations as IOPs, that number then reduced to 2 nations, still listed as IOPs on the official documents (London 2012 at the time hadn't published NOC details in full, as they were waiting for the final list before releasing the data on their website). Since Kuwait has been granted their NOC status back, a further change was made to the list of NOC, changing Netherlands Antilles from IOP to IOA code. This information held by LOCOG has since been released onto their website. By the time the 7-day discussion has lapsed for this RM, will know exactly whether its IOP or IOA - the way the IOC and LOCOG are constantly changing their minds over codes lately, anything could happen in the next 7 days.Wesley Mouse 23:29, 19 July 2012 (UTC)- Comment: Sorry, I meant sources available to the general public; I have clarified above. 88.88.160.158 (talk) 07:21, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I think this is likely to be the outcome but we should apply some caution; of the two links given one is from 2011 and has since been contradicted at times by other sources and the official site still includes Kuwait athletes despite indication that they may well compete under their own flag. The removal of Kuwait athletes may mean (and this is just a guess based on previous IOC policy with East Timor) that they compete under IOA but as Individual Olympic athletes - Basement12 (T.C) 23:32, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
- Comment: According to this LOCOG is aware that the designation currently only applies to one (former) NOC, furthermore the presence of Kuwaiti athletes could conceivably demonstrate that they would have used the same designation regardless of number of NOCs affected, and that the change for Kuwait came to close to publication. (Kuwait certainly were intended to compete as Independent Olympic Athletes, but the NOC has been reinstated.) Anyway this is the correct title as of today, and if it were to change it would be easy to remedy by a second move.88.88.160.158 (talk) 07:21, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
- Comment: A new source using Independent Olympic Athlete (also confirming a South Sudanese athlete) has been published. I will ask an admin to close this discussion and move the article, as the title is a matter of fact, not debate. There has been no objections to the move, except to wait in case the IOC changes the designation. Furthermore, moving the article would improve the project, so WP:IAR and WP:COMMONSENSE could apply if required. As the requested move was not properly registered due to a malfunctioning bot, waiting for a more proper close could mean that the article would be incorrectly titled during the Olympics. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 15:12, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose: The code is IOP and previous times this has been undertaken the code has been IOP so to match up the code with the article title the should Participants not Athletes. Sport and politics (talk) 17:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
- The code for this year is IOA, the same as Individual Olympic Athletes at the 2000 Summer Olympics, but the title the athletes will compete under is new: Independent Olympic Athletes. Read the sources. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 18:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
- Comment: According to this LOCOG is aware that the designation currently only applies to one (former) NOC, furthermore the presence of Kuwaiti athletes could conceivably demonstrate that they would have used the same designation regardless of number of NOCs affected, and that the change for Kuwait came to close to publication. (Kuwait certainly were intended to compete as Independent Olympic Athletes, but the NOC has been reinstated.) Anyway this is the correct title as of today, and if it were to change it would be easy to remedy by a second move.88.88.160.158 (talk) 07:21, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Support -- this needs to be done as soon as possible. It's causing me and several other editors a fair bit of confusion over at the main article. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 01:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- IOC has two NOC names reserved for these situations.Independent Participants was used for a NOC in a state of transition, suspension (Yugoslavia in 1992) or dissolution Netherlands Antilles,last year)).Individual Olympic Athletes is used for a country wich was recognized by the international community,but don´t has a National Olympic Committee,because was turning independent on middle of Olympic cycle.This is the same situation wich East Timor,was on 2000 Summer Games,IOC see this and give to they a special permission to compete as Individual Olympic Athletes.South Sudan,enter on this situation.The country is recognized by the UN, but they had time to form their National Committee on time for current Summer Olympics.Daniel Callegaro (talk|contribs) 02:54, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- An understandables assumption, however if you read the sources you will see that they have created a new designation and re-using a country code this year. For easy comparison I will state my position in the same way you did:
The IOC has twice previously created a special country code and designation for athletes competing under the Olympic flag. For some reason, but the fact is easily verifiable, they have chosen to create a new designation for athletes competing under the Olympic flag this year. This designation is "Independent Olympic Athletes". Because of the initials they have chosen to re-use the IOA country code, which they no longer use in their own database as no athlete from East Timor won a medal. I saw mentioned above that there is some confusion on the main page. I have noticed that; for example the source for the Independent Olympic Participants is called "Independent Olympic Athletes". The longer we wait the more minor pages will have to be fixed following the inevitable move. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 06:02, 22 July 2012 (UTC)- Really, we need a citation for all of the above. Olympic.org says that the South Sudanese athlete is an "Independent Olympic Athlete", while the three athletes from the Netherlands Antilles (and possibly also three Kuwaiti nationals -- there is some uncertainty about that part)
are listed at the London 2012 site as "Independent Olympic Participants". Right now there are verifiably two distinct categories.Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 06:10, 22 July 2012 (UTC) - My mistake. Those six are actually listed as IOA's. The South Sudanese guy is still not mentioned at all on the London 2012 site, but he too is listed as an IOA at olympic.org. Give me a bit to read up on this some more and I'll return when I have more information. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 06:31, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Really, we need a citation for all of the above. Olympic.org says that the South Sudanese athlete is an "Independent Olympic Athlete", while the three athletes from the Netherlands Antilles (and possibly also three Kuwaiti nationals -- there is some uncertainty about that part)
- An understandables assumption, however if you read the sources you will see that they have created a new designation and re-using a country code this year. For easy comparison I will state my position in the same way you did:
- IOC has two NOC names reserved for these situations.Independent Participants was used for a NOC in a state of transition, suspension (Yugoslavia in 1992) or dissolution Netherlands Antilles,last year)).Individual Olympic Athletes is used for a country wich was recognized by the international community,but don´t has a National Olympic Committee,because was turning independent on middle of Olympic cycle.This is the same situation wich East Timor,was on 2000 Summer Games,IOC see this and give to they a special permission to compete as Individual Olympic Athletes.South Sudan,enter on this situation.The country is recognized by the UN, but they had time to form their National Committee on time for current Summer Olympics.Daniel Callegaro (talk|contribs) 02:54, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I can find no material which supports the contention that both IOA and IOP are in use as two distinct categories for the 2012 Summer Olympics. IOA appears to be the only non-NOC country code currently in use by the IOC. If Daniel or anyone else has a source which says otherwise, you are invited to bring it forward. Right now I'm changing the main article to comport with the available sources. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 07:13, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I have re-merged the material from Independent Olympic Athlete at the 2012 Summer Olympics into this article. In addition, I am considering starting deletion procedures for that article. Would anyone object to that?Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 07:19, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Consider my vote changed to Oppose, provided what Daniel says above is true, and that IOA is a separate category from IOP. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 02:56, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Support once more, since no sources support the idea that IOA and IOP are both in use. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 07:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Support: move at "Independent Olympic Athletes" as soon as possibile. Don't trust so much London2012.com athletes profiles: below every profile you can read "The athletes listed have not been confirmed, nor is the list inclusive of all participants. More athlete profiles may be added or removed at any time". We should consider what International Olympic Committee says:
- 1) Athletes from Kuwait will participate under their country’s name and flag;
- 2) Marathon runner Guor Marial (from South Sudan) to compete as an Independent Olympic Athlete (IOA)
- 3) athletes from Netherlands Antilles will compete under the title Independent Olympic Athletes --93.34.4.39 (talk) 08:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Clarification I am clarifying my opposition. This requested move will bring confusion to the uninitiated reader. The uninitiated reader will see this as nothing more than a semantic POV fork. The uninitiated user will not understand the different names for Olympians competing under the Olympic flag. Changing the who article over one athlete is unnecessary POV forking. If there is going to be such a large volume of problems over the two names I propose a third name Independent Olympians that way the whole POV fork is avoided and all of the independent competitors are in the same place and both descriptions can be explained.--09:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sport and politics (talk • contribs)
- Our title has to reflect RS usage. Reliable sources are universally using the IOA distinction. No one is proposing changing anything over "one athlete". All the athletes are Independent Olympic Athletes, not Participants. There's no reason to think anyone will be confused. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 09:36, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Contrary to the sources and Evanh's explanation there. The IOC hadn't made their mind up whether to use IOP or IOA for 2012. Because of this, Netherlands Antilles and other IOs assumed that IOA would be used as that was the code used last time a situation like this occurred (Sydney 2000). As a result of that, the media outlets also started to assume that IOA would be used, and published such facts. But their publications are incorrect, as the code IOP is on all the documents for delegations etc. LOCOG will be updating the site before the games begin to highlight IOP as the code for 2012. Wesley Mouse 09:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Okay, well that's... horrible and even more confusing. That being the case, everything I said above can be safely disregarded. I've been going on the information I have, which is from the London 2012 website and IOC press releases. If IOP is being used on official documents, though, I guess we can indeed assume that that's the "official" code. Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 09:48, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- If or when the internal documents are released or the official site changed we will have reliable sources supporting some use of IOP. We do NOT currently have any such sources, thus the current title is unverifiable. I am interested in your (pl.) reasons for opposing the claims of reliable sources. It is relatively easy to move an article for non-IPs and I would certainly not oppose a move based on fresh reliable sources, cf. my immediate acceptance of Kuwait not being IOAs after the IOC decision on this was published. (Not that I think it will come into effect, but in the event that fresh sources reveal use of both IOA and IOP in 2012 I would initially be Neutral to whether we should have one or two articles.) See also: WP:Published which is linked to early in WP:RS. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 14:41, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- The use of reliable sources is one of the main ends of Wikipedia, the main aim though is to be an encyclopaedia which is reliable, neutral, accurate and most crucially accessible to all. There is no dispute from what I have read above that the Antilles are Independent Olympic Participants. The main problem starts when the man from South Sudan is trying to be dealt with as there appears to be a consensus that he is an Independent Olympic Athlete. If that is the case then two articles must be avoided to prevent an unnecessary dispersal of information and a lack of accessibility to the uninitiated and lay reader. If this is the case then either the long-standing title is retained or an all encompassing new title is agree to. For those reasons I cannot agree to change the article title just because one athlete from South Sudan has got into the Olympics, if he hadn't then this discussion would be fairly pointless as the long-standing consensus for just the Antilles was Independent Olympic Participants. Sport and politics (talk) 09:46, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I'm in strong favour of Sport's suggestion of a neutral holding name of "Independent Olympians" as a title. Thus there would be one article which can then cover both IOA and IOPs, instead of having the confusion of wondering which is right/wrong. Plus having an article for IO allows us to explain both IOA and IOP. Wesley Mouse 10:34, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not, due to the simple reason that we have the requested new title, which is backed by WP:RS. The recently suggested compromise title, while not a factual error like the current title, is lacking in consistency as it does not use the official designation. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 14:49, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I'm in strong favour of Sport's suggestion of a neutral holding name of "Independent Olympians" as a title. Thus there would be one article which can then cover both IOA and IOPs, instead of having the confusion of wondering which is right/wrong. Plus having an article for IO allows us to explain both IOA and IOP. Wesley Mouse 10:34, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- You are missing that reliable sources will be used in the article it will be an all encompassing article for all independent Olympians which have competed which I can see goes back to 1992. This would provide a sensible explanation of competing under the Olympic flag and would delete the need for debating the title as both Independent Participants and Independent Athletes would be in one place and prevent unnecessary forking and information dispersal. It is also not a factual error when it is dealing with all kinds of Olympic participation under the Olympic Flag. The official designations are under dispute and the article would address the differing official designations used. Having one article makes a lot more sense than debating a title over and over just because one guy from South Sudan is called something different from the Antilles people by the IOC. At the end of the day they will all be competing under the Olympic Flag. Sport and politics (talk) 16:19, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I see that an article for all athletes ever having competed under the Olympic flag would be interesting and probably should be created, however that would be the counterpart to Nation at the Olympics style articles. What we are discussing here is most similar to a Nation at the xxxx Olympics article. I have argued that the proper place for this Nation at the xxxx Olympics article is Independent Olympic Athletes at the 2012 Summer Olympics, citing important content guidelines etc. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 16:50, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- You are missing that reliable sources will be used in the article it will be an all encompassing article for all independent Olympians which have competed which I can see goes back to 1992. This would provide a sensible explanation of competing under the Olympic flag and would delete the need for debating the title as both Independent Participants and Independent Athletes would be in one place and prevent unnecessary forking and information dispersal. It is also not a factual error when it is dealing with all kinds of Olympic participation under the Olympic Flag. The official designations are under dispute and the article would address the differing official designations used. Having one article makes a lot more sense than debating a title over and over just because one guy from South Sudan is called something different from the Antilles people by the IOC. At the end of the day they will all be competing under the Olympic Flag. Sport and politics (talk) 16:19, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I still disagree as using IOP or IOA has been shown to be controversial even with the producing of "reliable Sources" one editor has got in a complete flap over the whole thing. The most accessible thing to do is to use a compromise title which encompasses both and creates no controversy. Sport and politics (talk) 17:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I do not see how IOA can be seen as controversial as every single published reliable source uses it.
I do not support the merge as that would mostly a list of results for athletes, dominated by the 58 competing in 1992. I do, however, support the creation of an article about the reasons why and the times when athletes have competed under the Olympic flag.While I am not offended, comments about specific editors are inadvisable. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 17:34, 22 July 2012 (UTC)- One should also remember WP:AAGF. Although an editor has made reference to another editor's behaviour, the comment doesn't explicitly state who that editor is referring to, it is open to interpretation. As I see it in here, several editors have shown signs of getting into a "flap over the whole thing" so the comment could be aimed at any one of us. To assume it is aimed at yourself is just foolish behaviour. Wesley Mouse 19:08, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- As the comment came during a period where only two editors were particularly active it was hardly an unreasonable assumption. I would welcome your input on the issues; my behaviour should only be discussed if I were to break or come close to breaking a rule. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 19:22, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I wouldn't exactly say that the assumption could be unreasonable really. When I read the comment, I thought it was referring to myself and not you - so like I said earlier, the way the comment is worded leaves it open to interpretation, and it would only take oneself to misinterpret its context as being aimed at oneself - thus being a foolish act. I wasn't saying you personally was behaving foolishly, its was just an euphemism. As for my input!? Have the multitude of my previous postings really gone unnoticed? I have posted a plethora of input into this debate - some are that long that it makes the novel War and Peace look like a newsletter. Wesley Mouse 19:30, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- I have read your comments. Your Oppose is claimed to be based on a comment to which I have responded, you could consider the information there. Furthermore, I am interested in your response to my comment of 14:41 today. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 19:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Erm you're incorrect slightly there. My "oppose is claimed to be..." it isn't a claim if I have written oppose and signed it. And my oppose isn't based on a response of yours either. If you look at the time stamps, I cast my oppose !vote 3 hours before you responded to Daniel's comment. And your comment at 14:41 was addressed to another user, so I had no reason to respond to it at the time as I didn't feel it would be relevant enough. Wesley Mouse 19:50, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry, bad writing. I meant your oppose was based on Daniel's comment, to which I have responded as I found it factually incorrect. Comment of 14:41 was intended for you (number of colons; is this incorrect?) primarily, but also others (therefore i added "(pl.)"). 85.167.109.186 (talk) 20:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Erm you're incorrect slightly there. My "oppose is claimed to be..." it isn't a claim if I have written oppose and signed it. And my oppose isn't based on a response of yours either. If you look at the time stamps, I cast my oppose !vote 3 hours before you responded to Daniel's comment. And your comment at 14:41 was addressed to another user, so I had no reason to respond to it at the time as I didn't feel it would be relevant enough. Wesley Mouse 19:50, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Daniel's comment wasn't exactly factually incorrect. He did state a valid reason which he is perfectly allowed to do. Without people stating all sides of the debate, then how would be able to reach a decisive conclusion. The comment at 14:41 isn't clear that it was meant for me, as the comment immediately followed a post by Evan, which made it appear that you was talking to him. The inclusion of "(pl.)" wasn't clear to me that you were including others too. To be honest I was confused with that pl too, as I thought you was mentioning another IOC code, or saying 'please' for something. Not everyone is familiar with pl, so try and avoid SMS-speak if possible. I have no response to your comment at 14:41 though, as I would be basically repeating myself over and over again, and I'm not a parrot. I have already stated that IOP is now being used again, and that media outlets had all assumed IOA would be the code - and that assumption had lead to the media falsely publishing the wrong code. Like a user has suggested below though, it is going to be wise to wait and see so that we avoid having to move an article only to find that we moved it in error, and will have to wait another 7 days to go through RM discussions, which could then mean the article will be in an incorrect format during the live event. Wesley Mouse 20:30, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- In the event that we move the article and the IOC changes their mind, the article would presumably be moved back unopposed based on reliable sources and verifiability... I have not used media sources in a single argument in this discussion, because they often use poor sources. I have relied solely on published IOC and LOCOG material, whereas you rely on unpublished IOC and LOCOG material. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 21:07, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
You are focusing too much on one strand and that is reliable sources while they are essential, the founding purpose of Wikipedia is to be an accurate and accessible encyclopaedia for all. Whilst the use of IOA may be reliable it detracts from the accuracy by creating unnecessary disambiguation. It also detracts from the access to the lay person as this is a highly technical debate regarding "official" language. To improve the access and accuracy an encompassing and easily understood title is required. THe technical issues can be addressed in the article itself. Sport and politics (talk) 17:50, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- An article with the correct title "Independent Olympic Athletes at the 2012 Summer Olympics" is neither more nor less accessible than an article with the incorrect title "Independent Olympic Participants at the 2012 Summer Olympics". The format of the title is based on precedence, i.e. all Nation at the xxxx Olympics articles and these two.85.167.109.186 (talk) 18:01, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
It may be correct but that doesn't make it the most accessible and easily understood title, meaning it may not be the right title for this article. Sport and politics (talk) 18:08, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Which is the reason I argued that the suggested new title is equally accessible as the current title. A third option would require discussion at WT:OLYMPICS as it would not match the similar articles created by the project. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 18:40, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Wait and See What name or names wind up being used officially. We should know by the end of the 7-day period. Then use that, as is precedent. Otherwise it will get confusing. If the article title is "Independent Olympic Participants ..." but they were called "Independent Olympic Athletes" (or some other similar situation), then it is confusing to the unfamiliar reader. Regardless, by the time the 7-day period is up, we will know what name is being used. It makes sense to use that in our article. RS is a non-issue in my opinion, because we will have the official name by the time this discussion is closed.
- I would agree if the RSs were media sources, however the sources are from the IOC and LOCOG, thus we know the current official name. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 19:52, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
As for the merge, there should be an article about competing under the Olympic flag, but we also need individual articles for the individual games. Otherwise, we will have a bunch of things together that have very little to do with eachother. Currently, we have a United States at the Olympic Games article and a United States at the 2012 Summer Olympics article. This should be treated the same way. Smartyllama (talk) 19:43, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- That seems to be the consensus at that discussion. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 19:52, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Interim move, then Wait and See as nominator: Several editors have claimed that we will know in a few days. I agree with this, but I see clear problems with the current title as it violates WP:V, a core principle. Wesley Mouse is privy to internal documents using IOP and consider it likely that the IOC or LOCOG will shortly publish information using IOP. I consider this unlikely as LOCOG has started using IOA after the dispute started. Nevertheless, there is a fear that a premature move would cause the article to be incorrectly titled during the Games. For these reasons I propose that the article is moved to the title currently supported by the sources given in the discussion above, but that the discussion remains officially open until the Opening Ceremony, to have a handy place to report new findings without having to open a new move request. 85.167.109.186 (talk) 21:07, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Could you please rephrase or strikeout parts of the comments referencing myself; as the wording of it is coming across that you are accusing me of being a liar - the fact that you have stated I am privy to information and then say you think it is unlikely, is literally coming across as you accusing me of being a liar, and I am deeply offended by it. And remember too that there is no rush with Wikipedia, plus it isn't always about winning either. If people seem to be swaying to the wait and see idea, then we best do that. Plus this discussion has yet to complete the 7 day period, there is most certainly no clear snowball consensus in either direction here, so you shouldn't be trying to get this RM wrapped up before the 7 days are over. Wesley Mouse 21:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC)