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I am not an expert in this, but at least in Sweden, she is always called Helvig or Helwig. That's her name in all books I have read. But that's Swedish books, after all, and I understand that it should be the English name here. It seems her own German name was Helwig. I just thought I should point that out. --85.226.42.56 (talk) 21:10, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
English speaking historians call her Hedwig of Holstein, just like they call her successor Blanche of Namur. Those are the Anglicized versions of their names and those versions are used by English language sources. Surtsicna (talk) 21:16, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Well, then I do not mind the move. As long as it is pointed out, that she is kalled Helvig in Sweden, as well as her German name version. --85.226.42.56 (talk) 21:45, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Britannica is only one of many publications that disagree with SergeWoodzing's claim. They call her Hedwig and a majority of other modern sources call her Hedwig → we should call her Hedwig. What's your opinion, AjaxSmack? Surtsicna (talk) 20:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose These are two different names. The English version of Swedish Helvig is Haelwig, not Hedwig. I doubt that 1995 Britannica was referring to this woman. If any of the other issues did, they are not to be considered reliable as they made a basic blunder. About like calling an Eleanor Elizabeth just because a few letters are the same in both names. SergeWoodzing (talk) 01:40, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Take a closer look at the books you are listing and you will find that hardly any of them actually deal with this woman. Quite a few are about a 17th century Queen. Nobody said Haelwig has been used so you didn't have to mention that. The fact is these are two different names. This woman's name in Swedish was Helvig, in German Helwig, in English Haelwig. Facts. You will never be able to prove anything else. SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:01, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The results I gave in my other comment are all related to this woman and they are calling her Hedwig. None of those sources call her Haelwig. Haelwig generally gets very few hits. You still haven't proven that Helvig is not a Swedish form of Hedwig. It's just your word against the word of several historians. A user proposes moving the page to Hedwig of Holstein and historians call her Hedwig of Holstein, while another user says it's incorrect but present no sources whatsoever... you see where this is going, don't you? Surtsicna (talk) 20:08, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me Surtsicna, but if this : "while another user says it's incorrect but present no sources whatsoever" refers to me, you have misunderstood me. My opinion is simply this: I understand that the English version must be used here. I have no opinion of what the English version of her name is, so I can't argue with that. In Swedish, her name is Helvig. In German, it seems, its Helwig. The German name "Hedvig", which is different from Helvig, is not translated to Helvig in Sweden. I just thought it should be of some interest to know, that Hedvig is not translated to Helvig in Sweden; Helwig was translated to Helvig, that's all. The names Hedvig and Helvig are both German names, but none of them are translated in Sweden, except that you use the letter "V" instead of "W". If English historians use Hedwig about her, than I suppose that is the correct title for this article. Though it all seems to be a bit of a mistunderstanding to me, as I do agree that Hedvig/Hedwig and Helvig/Helwig is, after all, two different names. Anyway. I just don't like to be misconstructed, that's all. Good luck with this. --85.226.42.56 (talk) 21:01, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see. That's alright then. English historians seem to have misunderstood her name, but if that his her name in English history, it should be used. Though, of course: her different name versions must be accounted for in the article itself. --85.226.42.56 (talk) 21:28, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Several of the sources given by Surtsicma clearly refer to Hedwig Eleonora of Holstein-Gottorp (1636-1715), yet they are asserted definitely above to be "all related to this woman" who was a 13th century queen. Another is about a 14th century Polish queen. Others stem from one single mistranslation of this name from the Swedish out of the late 19th century work of Adolf Schück. Not one of them gives us a reliable source for changing the name of this queen posthumously from Helvig to Hedwig. Hedwig is another name not an English version of Helwig. Helwig (not Hedwig) was this woman's name in her native tongue. Yet, once again, as if he/she were an English expert, Surtsican wants me to prove that "Helvig is not a Swedish form of Hedwig." All the cited references/sources used for this Article refer to her as Helvig, which is a different name than Hedvig. No one has ever before alleged that the two different names are one and the same. I suggest we take this more seriously and take a good look at the purported sources before taking what the proposer writes here at face value. The proposer apparently is not interested in looking at them a little more in depth, only, it seems, in arguing and making claims that do not pan out at all when looked into. Surtsicng went ahead and changed the queen's name throughout the article from Helvig to Hedwig, even removing Helvig completely, without awaiting consensus (I have restored the correct name). Very headstrong indeed! Thus, the article would have had the wrong name throughout its text while the correct name only was in the article name, if Surtsicna whould have gotten his/her way. Such work borders on disruption in my opinion. I have also seen it called vandalism by other more temperamental users who have found it hard to see good faith in it. This needs to stop. SergeWoodzing (talk) 03:39, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You are offended when somebody says that you are wrong, yet you expect me not to be offended by what you just said? That's unbelievable. As if he/she were an English expert and Surtsicna whould have gotten his/her way (note that this is how an English expert spells the word would), just to cite a few lines (citing the whole comment would be inconvenient). The passive-agressive tone which you use is simply gross and hard to ignore. Anyway, why do you ignore my comments? Do you expect me to answer your comment five times while you repeat your comment over and over again without referring to my answer? Queen Hedwig is used to refer to the wife of Magnus as much as Queen Helvig, but Hedwig of Holstein (3 books) is used to refer to the wife of Magnus much more often than Helvig of Holstein (which is actually unused, 0 books). No historian refers to her as Haelwig. These results all refer to this woman. Some of these books are The History of Sweden, Kingship and state formation in Sweden, 1130-1290 and Politics and reformations: communities, polities, nations, and empires, all of which seem to focus on Swedish history. The first book was written by a Swede, the second refers to this woman as Hedwig of Holstein 11 times, while the third was published by the University of Michigan. Of course all the references in this article call her Helvig; all those references are in Swedish! Why do you pretend that you haven't noticed that or that it is irrelevant? When are you going to present any source whatsoever? Do you seriously expect us to consider you such an expert that we don't need sources to believe you? No sources, no valid argument - this is a Wiki policy. Surtsicna (talk) 10:47, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Surtsicna went ahead today and added her name incorrectly as Hedwig in her son's article. Headstrong indeed - again! The issue is that her name was Helwig, not Hedwig, in German, Helvig, not Hedvig, in Swedish, and that she should not be subjected to a name change (to a name she never had) due to very flimsy sources. I will not be commenting/repeating this again, mainly because I don't want my typos ridiculed again. SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:42, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
She wasn't mentioned at all so I named her the way she should be named. I haven't changed it from Helvig to Hedwig. Headstrong, but correct. I must notice that you are quick to respond when somebody ridicules your typos, yet you feel it's perfectly normal for you to ridicule other person's knowledge of English. Anyway, this is the fourth time I ask you for S-O-U-R-C-E-S. Why are you being so headstrong by refusing to cite sources? You call my sources flimsy, even though you refuse to cite any source for days. In my opinion (I don't usually give my opinion, but since Serge does...), that is very rude. Surtsicna (talk) 17:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. English sources appear to call her this, as these results show. Even weeding out Charles X's queen, these are still more numerous than the references for the Swedish spelling, which appear to be confined to translations from the Swedish.
It would help the article to have English sources; in the process, we might do better than nineteenth-century patriotism and coffee-table books on the Queens of Sweden. This hit, first on the list, seems particularly helpful on the significance of her coronation. SeptentrionalisPMAnderson17:02, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This support appears to be only the product of canvassing by Surtsicna, such as he/she has tried to do with me too, even to the point of removing whole sections from my talk page without even asking me about it and emailing me to enlist my support. I'm very sorry to say that good faith is in question here and that the ethics of a user who would do such things probably should be looked at closely as a part of determining this issue.
Any source that would give a queen an incorrect name (such as Hedwig rather than Helvig) can hardly be considered reliable. Surtsicna tried to convince us with a number of sources that actually were about a number other women, as I have disclosed. (Anybody seen an apology anywhere?) Britannica today doesn't even name Magnus's queen ("a German princess"), probably because of uncertainty about what to call her. That's a more professional attitude at work. SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]