Anthony Appleyard (talk | contribs) m Anthony Appleyard moved page Talk:Gurmukhī alphabet to Talk:Gurmukhi alphabet: Requested by Filpro at WP:RM/TR: Fix the letter "i". |
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:Abugidas are alphabets, as are abjads, and this is common WP usage, so that's not an argument. CONCISE is a legitimate argument, though a quick GBooks search suggests that "Gurmukhi" is normally used in combination with either "script" or "alphabet". (For our purposes, "script" would be used for the Gurmukhi writing system in general, and "alphabet" for the Panjabi Gurmukhi alphabet specifically.) — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 19:44, 5 September 2015 (UTC) |
:Abugidas are alphabets, as are abjads, and this is common WP usage, so that's not an argument. CONCISE is a legitimate argument, though a quick GBooks search suggests that "Gurmukhi" is normally used in combination with either "script" or "alphabet". (For our purposes, "script" would be used for the Gurmukhi writing system in general, and "alphabet" for the Panjabi Gurmukhi alphabet specifically.) — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 19:44, 5 September 2015 (UTC) |
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==Sikh script== |
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I've added "a Sikh script" to the [[Gurmukhi alphabet]] article which was previously in the article [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gurmukhi_alphabet&diff=753392893&oldid=752564613] but removed. |
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The following sources back this statement: |
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* Mandair, Arvind-Pal S.; Shackle, Christopher; Singh, Gurharpal (December 16, 2013). Sikh Religion, Culture and Ethnicity. Routledge. p. 13, Quote: "creation of a pothi in distinct Sikh script (Gurmukhi) seem to relate to the immediate religio-political context ...". ISBN 9781136846342. Retrieved 23 November 2016. |
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:https://books.google.com.au/books?id=79ZcAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA13&dq=sikh+script&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOvoTF877QAhXEnZQKHaOKBU04ChDoAQg3MAY#v=onepage&q=sikh%20script&f=false |
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* Mann, Gurinder Singh; Numrich, Paul; Williams, Raymond (December 3, 2007). Buddhists, Hindus, and Sikhs in America. New York: Oxford University Press. p. 100, Quote: "He modified the existing writing systems of his time to create Gurmukhi, the script of the Sikhs; then ...". ISBN 9780198044246. Retrieved 23 November 2016. |
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:https://books.google.com.au/books?id=8R-Kl2C1C7QC&pg=PA144&dq=sikh+script&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjV1Yzx-L7QAhUMxbwKHYMkAA04FBDoAQgXMAA#v=onepage&q=sikh%20script&f=false |
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* Shani, Giorgio (March 2002). The Territorialization of Identity: Sikh Nationalism in the Diaspora. Japan: Kitakyushu University. p. 11. Retrieved 22 November 2016. |
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:http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1754-9469.2002.tb00014.x/abstract |
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* "Gurmukhi - The Sikh Alphabet". Sikhs.org. Retrieved 14 November 2016. |
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:http://www.sikhs.org/gurmukhi.htm |
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* Harjeet Singh Gill (1996). Peter T. Daniels; William Bright, eds. The World's Writing Systems. Oxford University Press. p. 395. ISBN 978-0-19-507993-7. |
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* Khalsa, Sukhmandir. "Introduction to Gurmukhi Script". about.com. Retrieved 14 November 2016. |
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[[User:Peeta Singh|Peeta Singh ]] ([[User talk:Peeta Singh|talk]]) 03:37, 12 December 2016 (UTC) |
Revision as of 03:37, 12 December 2016
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Untitled
This page should mention that Punjabi is also written in the shahmukhi script, related to the Urdu, Persian, and Arabic scripts; and also in devanagari. — Hippietrail 01:13, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This page is a bit lacking so I've taken it upon myself to update it. I'm using the information on my own web site at http://guca.sourceforge.net/resources/introductiontogurmukhi/ to add more information. Please feel free to contribute any other information too! Sukh 18:00, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Page title
I believe Wikipedia policy is that page titles use the most usual English spelling. Both Collins and Encarta online dicionaries only list "Gurmukhi" as a possible spelling. I believe "Gurmukhī" with the macron is more a transliteration of the native name. — Hippietrail 14:07, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
- I second that. Also, what else can Gurmukhi refer to, besides a script? I think it should just be at Gurmukhi. —Wiki Wikardo 19:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
IPA
Shouldn't there be the IPA symbols for the consonants, as well? I have no knowledge of Punjabi, but someone with some knowledge should probably fix that. 66.165.31.200 05:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
IPA for the consonants is available in Wikipedia:Indic_transliteration_scheme, except you should note that it (apparently) can't be described in a simple table. you need some notes to explain some special cases, particularly the letters for aspirated consonants that are apparently used to mark tonal changes. unfortunately my knowledge of this is too limited to feel confident doing it, but most of the information should be in that big table in the article. --Doviende (talk) 03:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Consonants and "Paer Bindi"
I just switched the pronunciations between "Fuffa" and "Fuffay paer'ch bindi" to give the unmarked consonant the straightforward "F" pronunciation and "Ph" for the modified letter. This is trivial, but I believe it is correct, being proficient in Gurmukhi/Punjabi myself and consulting with others. Does anyone have an opinion on this and, for example, "Shusha" and "Sussay paer'ch bindi," which is another pair with near-negligible difference (Many Punjabis make no distinction phonetically with such pairs; many will even ignore more distinct "paer bindi" sounds, like sticking with "Ja" even when it should technically be the "loansound" "Za.") Any thoughts?3swordz (talk) 22:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, you're correct. The pairin bindi letters should be labelled with their unmarked consonant, and pronounced as if they are marked. A Pha with a dot makes a Fa (A Fa with a dot makes a Pha with two dots!). And yes, many Punjabis pronounce them without the dot - but this is incorrect in "proper" Punjabi. 188.28.108.142 (talk) 13:19, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
The names in the table of consonants and the pairin bindi table are different for the same letter. Confusing to this English only speaker. DennisStork (talk) 05:33, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Punjabi language as a misnomer for Gurmukhi language
This whole section seems out of place to me:
- it's unsupported by references;
- it has a lot of weasel wording, particularly the second paragraph;
- a lot of the reasoning is faulty, or simply absent - especially the contention that the script is the most important distinguishing feature of a language, when several languages (eg Malay, Serbo-Croat) have abandoned one script for another or have multiple writing systems.
Even if it does remain, it needs to be made more neutral and to be presented as an expression of a particular point of view - and should come far lower down in the overall article, after the discussion of the characteristics of the script.DrDaveHPP (talk) 14:39, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Transliteration
I noticed the article provides the Roman transliteration for vowels but not for consonants. Should this be added? --Joseph Yanchar (User page/Talk page) 04:11, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Article Titled
Why is this article titled "Gurmukhī alphabet" when it is an abugida. The article title should be just "Gurmukhī" as there is no other use for the word Gurmukhī.Filpro (talk) 14:42, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
- Abugidas are alphabets, as are abjads, and this is common WP usage, so that's not an argument. CONCISE is a legitimate argument, though a quick GBooks search suggests that "Gurmukhi" is normally used in combination with either "script" or "alphabet". (For our purposes, "script" would be used for the Gurmukhi writing system in general, and "alphabet" for the Panjabi Gurmukhi alphabet specifically.) — kwami (talk) 19:44, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
Sikh script
I've added "a Sikh script" to the Gurmukhi alphabet article which was previously in the article [1] but removed.
The following sources back this statement:
- Mandair, Arvind-Pal S.; Shackle, Christopher; Singh, Gurharpal (December 16, 2013). Sikh Religion, Culture and Ethnicity. Routledge. p. 13, Quote: "creation of a pothi in distinct Sikh script (Gurmukhi) seem to relate to the immediate religio-political context ...". ISBN 9781136846342. Retrieved 23 November 2016.
- Mann, Gurinder Singh; Numrich, Paul; Williams, Raymond (December 3, 2007). Buddhists, Hindus, and Sikhs in America. New York: Oxford University Press. p. 100, Quote: "He modified the existing writing systems of his time to create Gurmukhi, the script of the Sikhs; then ...". ISBN 9780198044246. Retrieved 23 November 2016.
- Shani, Giorgio (March 2002). The Territorialization of Identity: Sikh Nationalism in the Diaspora. Japan: Kitakyushu University. p. 11. Retrieved 22 November 2016.
- "Gurmukhi - The Sikh Alphabet". Sikhs.org. Retrieved 14 November 2016.
- Harjeet Singh Gill (1996). Peter T. Daniels; William Bright, eds. The World's Writing Systems. Oxford University Press. p. 395. ISBN 978-0-19-507993-7.
- Khalsa, Sukhmandir. "Introduction to Gurmukhi Script". about.com. Retrieved 14 November 2016.
Peeta Singh (talk) 03:37, 12 December 2016 (UTC)